Not having the worker deaths showing up on the bottom left confused me so much. So much talk about damage being dealt and me going "what do you mean, there was 1 worker kill, clearly this is fine".
The main reason why Maxpax doesn't rush out Extended Thermal Lance is likely because he doesn't get the upgrade if his opponent's army can handle Colossi easily. If he sees that a zerg isn't going into melee upgrades for heavy ling play, then that means production of Armored units that can take on Colossi which means that he doesn't waste additional resources on an upgrade he's won't get much benefit over a different upgrade that will benefit his current army much more. If he doesn't need it, then he won't rush for it.
I do firmly like Mothership not being Abductable, but definitely believe Hydras need something like +1 range vs air with upgrade or something to make their anti-air just a bit more viable. Maybe they just need to mix in other options yet...I'm all for seeing new builds being played with.
pretty funny to think that in yesterdays video, Astrea (Protoss) and ByuN (Terran), ByuN defended his mineral line with a single widow mine autotargetting and 1 shotting the first oracle compared to a 600apm zerg's queens and spore crawlers scrambling around tickling them
Reynor's micro is just on another level. That first game, with his control over 2-3 strategic roach groups, while fending off Max at the main base is nothing short of incredible and almost allowed him to reverse the tide on a game that Max was already clearly favored to win. And the second game was just nuts. How the hell did he come back from that? Successfully fended off 4 f'ing carriers 7 minutes in with nothing but queens and spores. Then, after losing all those queens on the retreat, the clutch parasitic bomb just sealed the deal. Max really should have been more aggressive but Reynor played that so well. This series was great: both the players and the casting!
Bro, I'm sad you didn't follow up on that Oracle in the 2nd game. I'm pretty sure I saw it still flying around near the end of that game. It had to have had like 100 zergling kills.
I watch Lowko for the official games because I don't want to deal with the 5 hours of blabbering before and between the matches. I just want to see the games and enjoy the commentary during. Lowko is great at both.
Hey lowko. I’ve been a huge fan of yours for a while, and I had an idea for something you could try doing. At the start of every episode, go over one unit, structure, or other feature. I think it would help new watchers better understand the game, and people who already understand the game could just skip it. Thanks! Oh yeah and also first
I just hope Serral, or other top tier Zerg player, join a major tournament but switching race, then destroying everyone else. That would be a huge blow to the balance discussion
This wont really happen, I guess. HerO´s Terran was quiet horrible, because he played it like he plays Protoss and the heavy agressive style just didnt work well. Also his control seemed a bit clunky compared to his Toss play.
“Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is” -Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish
I agree that a hydra lurker based army needs infestor and viper support. Infestor for microbial shroud and viper for parasitic bomb for the interceptors
In the losing battle previous to your comment @ 46:37 Raynor only used Infestors for shroud, so shroud+squirtalisk = 💀 The simpler and more readily available remedy is to fung the interceptors so the Hydra can actually target them and not just spin in circles. Otherwise, ignore the interceptors, focus the Carriers. Lowko manuver works well too!😅
What fungal actually does to interceptors is damage them and slow them so they can't actually shoot at anything or go back to the carrier. The hydras can target them just fine, but they get shredded by their DPS.
“Great video! I feel like Zerg’s anti-air options have become too hard to manage and less enjoyable, especially with the need to summon Corruptors. Corruptors feel useless if the opponent transitions, making them a risky choice. What if Brood Lords had an upgradable ability to summon Scourge from Starcraft 1? This would make both Corruptors and Brood Lords more viable and enjoyable, adding versatility to Zerg’s air game. Thoughts?”
I think its just hard to balance for most players how many corruptors they need. So after they crush toss army you have extra. However the main point is that they do their job and kill the toss army.
Would be better if they can switch modes like a Thor and still do small damage but can defend themselves (broodling would be like interceptor from carrier)
Yeah there needs to be a way for zerg to transition from air to ground without requiring to build new units. Not having a single tier 3 unit that can hit ground and air means that you constantly need to balance how many of each you have and that you can't really adapt to any changes the enemy does
I wonder if adding a buff to burrowed units or mele units for microbial shroud would make hydra lurkers against toss better. Maybe burrowed units get plus armor and 50% off air damage?
I don't think it to be unfair, that you can't win with just Hydra-Lurker against Carrier-Tempest-Storm. Zergs will have to make the transition, just as Protoss have to do the transition when Lurkers hit the battlefield.
Exactly, lurkers come online much faster than skytoss and at that point zerg has an advantage in army quality and can use that to put pressure on the toss before air units come out. Once the fleet comes in the dynamic changes and I think that's a good thing, the game would be rather static otherwise
Parasitic bomb on overlords would be zerg learning from Terrans using irradiate on science vessels in Starcraft 1. Totally justified natural evolution.
Damn, who would've thought that the new balance patch would bring such great games. Plenty more spells from every player, microbrial shrout finally viable... Such fun games to watch.
Ok... as far as I can see, all of this balance patch issue for Zerg would be solved by making the Hydra better against air... the question is: how? Frenzy is thrash as hell...
People more knowledgable than me, It seems like this patch has really leveled the playing field and made games more interesting from my perspective (only played the campaign really) Terran has always seemed powerful, maybe convert that power into potentially more interesting abilities (no clue) Protoss has many interesting abilities and seems finally to be well rounded Zerg seems to struggle a bit more (also no clue) What would happen, hypothetically, if they gave the swarm host the ability to make the locusts able to attack air units like scourge, though much less powerful and its only 1 attack instead of life span. I imagine curious things sometimes.
Gotta love watching Zerg be completely unable to deal with anything in the air effectively. Zerg anti air has always been bad since the infested Terran went away, and it’s only gotten worse.
The 2nd game was truly amazing, i am still a bit excited about it. Definitely hoping for more such games. On the other hand, i truly wish that we can see Serral play in the new PTR tournaments/games, cause i am really interested in how he responds to all the changes so far introduced to the game. I really do hope that he is alright and well, and we can see some amazing games from him as well. P.S. Real Serral fanboy
See, looking at the 2nd game we can say, that Zergs are not weak at all. They just need to have a slight advantage on the map and also their opponent to make A LOT of mistakes so they have a chance to win!
I have a proposal for a balance to Zerg to make its late game, especially against Air Toss and Terran Armada, more feasible. Or at least open up potential counterplay. Make Corrupters morph from Mutas. Like how Broodlords are evolved Corrupters, instead make both Corrupters and Broodlords both morph out of Mutalisks. This would mean zerg, knowing the enemy may be going air, can preemptively build muta and use them to harass, and optionally morph them into the anti-air unit when they face the Armada. The risk is then that they have a sub-par harass unit, and the enemy may choose not to transition into air, forcing you to slowly trade out your muta in bad fights. Since zerg seems to be all about gaining advantage in the early-mid game, before the enemy can reach their late game composition which is superior to zerg, this style of play makes perfect sense. There is no buff to any unit, none are stronger. It just adds a new option for zerg to harass and force the enemy to lose ground before they reach their full power, and then overwhelm. I'm curious what people think.
Max probably should have cancelled the Tempests and chrono'd out some Voids, they'd be effective at staying in the back and protecting against the ultras.
45:28 he has like 8 minutes getting rid of those zerg with just carrier and mama ship. The carrier tremendously outweight those hydras and max pax is just tiptoeing there omfg it pissed me off
I wouldn't mind Parasitic Bomb on friendly zerg units if they did like 40-60 damage to them... Or add an upgrade that can reduce damage from parasitic bomb on friendly units. No idea how good/bad it would be. But it would be fun...
This is really similar to an old Brood War tactic. Science vessels (basically the old version of Ravens) had an "Irradiate" ability that would cause a unit to damage all biological units nearby for a period of time. Typically this would target ultralisks or casters, but there was something called the "Eraser Trick" where a few science vessels would target themselves and then hover over the zerg's drone line.
I think when it comes to maps in tournaments, they should throw in a map NO ONE has played, like a brand new map that both opponents have to discover the map and figure it out on the way... THAT would make a pro player. Logging hundreds of thousands of hours on a single map and knowing it like the back of your hand and your opponent having played a few less hours so you're just better at memorizing the layout just means you're boring. Being forced to improvise completely based on absolutely minimal knowledge is a much better game play. I mean hell how many games does he go "it takes X seconds to cross one corner to the other" , that's just janky both players know how long things take so they just pre-programmed muscle responses, would love to see them going "oh shit what do we do"
MaxPax letting Spawning pool live with 1% hp is painful, letting zerg main live in general and go for the fortified natural? man Max dropped the ball second game
With the new patch, this matchup got the most predictable and most annoying to watch. Luring Zerg into heavy corrupter commitment just to switch back to a groundarmy and leave zerg on dead supply. It is obvious, easy to execute and impossbile to counter. If at least broodlords would be an option. Why did the counsil unfix them at all? Was the ghost-lobby interfering again?
Not having the worker deaths showing up on the bottom left confused me so much. So much talk about damage being dealt and me going "what do you mean, there was 1 worker kill, clearly this is fine".
The main reason why Maxpax doesn't rush out Extended Thermal Lance is likely because he doesn't get the upgrade if his opponent's army can handle Colossi easily. If he sees that a zerg isn't going into melee upgrades for heavy ling play, then that means production of Armored units that can take on Colossi which means that he doesn't waste additional resources on an upgrade he's won't get much benefit over a different upgrade that will benefit his current army much more. If he doesn't need it, then he won't rush for it.
Word.
I do firmly like Mothership not being Abductable, but definitely believe Hydras need something like +1 range vs air with upgrade or something to make their anti-air just a bit more viable. Maybe they just need to mix in other options yet...I'm all for seeing new builds being played with.
27:35 That sentry was such a hero. Broke my heart to see him go so unceremoniously. War is Hell
I love it when they use THE LOWKO MANEUVER
¡Gracias!
Thank you!
Oh I remember you hinting at this match-up in the last video. I'm expecting some absolute bangers!
pretty funny to think that in yesterdays video, Astrea (Protoss) and ByuN (Terran), ByuN defended his mineral line with a single widow mine autotargetting and 1 shotting the first oracle compared to a 600apm zerg's queens and spore crawlers scrambling around tickling them
Terran is just easy mode! Everything about them is made easy. Need to target caster individual inside clump of units? Nah, EMP AoE gg.
Reynor's micro is just on another level. That first game, with his control over 2-3 strategic roach groups, while fending off Max at the main base is nothing short of incredible and almost allowed him to reverse the tide on a game that Max was already clearly favored to win.
And the second game was just nuts. How the hell did he come back from that? Successfully fended off 4 f'ing carriers 7 minutes in with nothing but queens and spores. Then, after losing all those queens on the retreat, the clutch parasitic bomb just sealed the deal. Max really should have been more aggressive but Reynor played that so well.
This series was great: both the players and the casting!
I've only seen two games in the series so far, but hot damn this might be the best SC2 match I've ever watched. Excellent cast Lowko
2:14 i think lowko is fall in love with maxpax, dude he cant stop him self from being a big fan for him
Bro, I'm sad you didn't follow up on that Oracle in the 2nd game. I'm pretty sure I saw it still flying around near the end of that game. It had to have had like 100 zergling kills.
I watch Lowko for the official games because I don't want to deal with the 5 hours of blabbering before and between the matches. I just want to see the games and enjoy the commentary during. Lowko is great at both.
I remember watching a ton of your older videos when I first started watching SC2, and it seemed like half of StarCraft was played on Abyssal Reef :)
That thumbnail looks chaotic
Wait is that migrovial shrout
The immortal didn't get a 10% damage nerf, it got a 10% firing speed nerf. Which is similar, but different
This was an INSANE series!! Loved it! That 2nd game though!
Hey lowko. I’ve been a huge fan of yours for a while, and I had an idea for something you could try doing. At the start of every episode, go over one unit, structure, or other feature. I think it would help new watchers better understand the game, and people who already understand the game could just skip it. Thanks!
Oh yeah and also first
that would be a really cool idea ! (i know all theses unit for nearly 10 years, but lets get everyone back to speed !)
I just hope Serral, or other top tier Zerg player, join a major tournament but switching race, then destroying everyone else.
That would be a huge blow to the balance discussion
This wont really happen, I guess. HerO´s Terran was quiet horrible, because he played it like he plays Protoss and the heavy agressive style just didnt work well. Also his control seemed a bit clunky compared to his Toss play.
Yes, MaxPax! I was hoping to see him, Thanks Lowko
I always click like when a Lowko maneuver is used. Great games!
The stepmothership is stuck in the nexus… oh lord
Thanks for the video, Lowko. Hope you are enjoying your day off today! ❤
“Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is”
-Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish
*Loads bolter*
Sounds like heresy to me
@@SkagulTV Tis but a quote, brother. The Emperor protects.
1:00:38 "Moment of silence for BRenda...."
🤣
Just great how the new patch has brought so much more strategic variety and dynamic into the PvZ fights.
Instead of lowko manouver, it should be called the Lowko-motion.
I agree that a hydra lurker based army needs infestor and viper support. Infestor for microbial shroud and viper for parasitic bomb for the interceptors
No Hello today ? Angery
In the losing battle previous to your comment @ 46:37 Raynor only used Infestors for shroud, so shroud+squirtalisk = 💀
The simpler and more readily available remedy is to fung the interceptors so the Hydra can actually target them and not just spin in circles.
Otherwise, ignore the interceptors, focus the Carriers.
Lowko manuver works well too!😅
What fungal actually does to interceptors is damage them and slow them so they can't actually shoot at anything or go back to the carrier. The hydras can target them just fine, but they get shredded by their DPS.
1:04:16 Those were like 10 storms back to back, damn the energy ability does wonders
I think I literally NERDGASMED AT THOSE STORMS in the last game. OMG!!!
Thanks!
Thank you!
“Great video! I feel like Zerg’s anti-air options have become too hard to manage and less enjoyable, especially with the need to summon Corruptors. Corruptors feel useless if the opponent transitions, making them a risky choice. What if Brood Lords had an upgradable ability to summon Scourge from Starcraft 1? This would make both Corruptors and Brood Lords more viable and enjoyable, adding versatility to Zerg’s air game. Thoughts?”
I think its just hard to balance for most players how many corruptors they need. So after they crush toss army you have extra. However the main point is that they do their job and kill the toss army.
Would be better if they can switch modes like a Thor and still do small damage but can defend themselves (broodling would be like interceptor from carrier)
Yeah there needs to be a way for zerg to transition from air to ground without requiring to build new units. Not having a single tier 3 unit that can hit ground and air means that you constantly need to balance how many of each you have and that you can't really adapt to any changes the enemy does
I wonder if adding a buff to burrowed units or mele units for microbial shroud would make hydra lurkers against toss better. Maybe burrowed units get plus armor and 50% off air damage?
I don't think it to be unfair, that you can't win with just Hydra-Lurker against Carrier-Tempest-Storm.
Zergs will have to make the transition, just as Protoss have to do the transition when Lurkers hit the battlefield.
Exactly, lurkers come online much faster than skytoss and at that point zerg has an advantage in army quality and can use that to put pressure on the toss before air units come out. Once the fleet comes in the dynamic changes and I think that's a good thing, the game would be rather static otherwise
31:00 what is the lowko build order ?
Parasitic bomb on overlords would be zerg learning from Terrans using irradiate on science vessels in Starcraft 1. Totally justified natural evolution.
I foresee a mass nexus transition for protoss like the terran to do mass oracle and high templar play.
Damn, who would've thought that the new balance patch would bring such great games. Plenty more spells from every player, microbrial shrout finally viable... Such fun games to watch.
Ok... as far as I can see, all of this balance patch issue for Zerg would be solved by making the Hydra better against air... the question is: how? Frenzy is thrash as hell...
People more knowledgable than me,
It seems like this patch has really leveled the playing field and made games more interesting from my perspective (only played the campaign really)
Terran has always seemed powerful, maybe convert that power into potentially more interesting abilities (no clue)
Protoss has many interesting abilities and seems finally to be well rounded
Zerg seems to struggle a bit more (also no clue)
What would happen, hypothetically, if they gave the swarm host the ability to make the locusts able to attack air units like scourge, though much less powerful and its only 1 attack instead of life span. I imagine curious things sometimes.
It's a cool idea; screen against the other guys locusts, do splash damage on Vikings, Phoenix, etc. Swarm is such a throw unit in an aggressive game.
Is Lowko the only reason why Starcraft II stays relative? Keep it up !
great games! great series!
Gotta love watching Zerg be completely unable to deal with anything in the air effectively. Zerg anti air has always been bad since the infested Terran went away, and it’s only gotten worse.
The 2nd game was truly amazing, i am still a bit excited about it. Definitely hoping for more such games.
On the other hand, i truly wish that we can see Serral play in the new PTR tournaments/games, cause i am really interested in how he responds to all the changes so far introduced to the game. I really do hope that he is alright and well, and we can see some amazing games from him as well.
P.S. Real Serral fanboy
Hey lowko! May I ask what you did to make your video such high quality?
i think Hydras need a buff only vs AIr to make them viable. Something like +5 vs Air or so. And the Speed Upgrade maybe slower Speed but lasts longer
I'm getting really worried about Zerg this patch.
1:03:18 Should call it Momma-toss, to differentiate from skytoss :P
See, looking at the 2nd game we can say, that Zergs are not weak at all. They just need to have a slight advantage on the map and also their opponent to make A LOT of mistakes so they have a chance to win!
scrappy games, love the casts, never stop!
I have a proposal for a balance to Zerg to make its late game, especially against Air Toss and Terran Armada, more feasible. Or at least open up potential counterplay. Make Corrupters morph from Mutas.
Like how Broodlords are evolved Corrupters, instead make both Corrupters and Broodlords both morph out of Mutalisks. This would mean zerg, knowing the enemy may be going air, can preemptively build muta and use them to harass, and optionally morph them into the anti-air unit when they face the Armada. The risk is then that they have a sub-par harass unit, and the enemy may choose not to transition into air, forcing you to slowly trade out your muta in bad fights.
Since zerg seems to be all about gaining advantage in the early-mid game, before the enemy can reach their late game composition which is superior to zerg, this style of play makes perfect sense. There is no buff to any unit, none are stronger. It just adds a new option for zerg to harass and force the enemy to lose ground before they reach their full power, and then overwhelm. I'm curious what people think.
Holy crap Max Pax was insane in this match!
I’d like to see an ultralisk and hydralisk morph into a uldralisk please…
59:32 I think the stasussies play some role in the protoss reproduction
32:13 could be wrong but my memory was that they were nerfed to 40/30 because reasons.
The problem with uploading "Best series yet!" is that it almost means the next upload with be better
Mothership should get a new tip. Good against zerglings/banelings. With that many lazors it may well be the best unit against them.
Now we just need some smart nerfs to the ghost, that are actually impactful, mostly to their EMP, then the game will be in a great state.
Max probably should have cancelled the Tempests and chrono'd out some Voids, they'd be effective at staying in the back and protecting against the ultras.
The ending, 60 supply drop in 3 seconds... Darn...
Ctrl S + Ctrl M = Pay Respects
Absolutely mental, and I'm in game 2!
45:28 he has like 8 minutes getting rid of those zerg with just carrier and mama ship. The carrier tremendously outweight those hydras and max pax is just tiptoeing there omfg it pissed me off
yessss been waiting for the next video 🤩 Lowko delivers!
Do we know what the protoss win rate is post rework?
I wouldn't mind Parasitic Bomb on friendly zerg units if they did like 40-60 damage to them... Or add an upgrade that can reduce damage from parasitic bomb on friendly units.
No idea how good/bad it would be. But it would be fun...
This is really similar to an old Brood War tactic. Science vessels (basically the old version of Ravens) had an "Irradiate" ability that would cause a unit to damage all biological units nearby for a period of time. Typically this would target ultralisks or casters, but there was something called the "Eraser Trick" where a few science vessels would target themselves and then hover over the zerg's drone line.
I really miss Has, that was a great toss player
Can someone enlighten me on why we rarely see toss use nexus recall?
THE LOWKO MANEUVERE !!!
I think when it comes to maps in tournaments, they should throw in a map NO ONE has played, like a brand new map that both opponents have to discover the map and figure it out on the way... THAT would make a pro player. Logging hundreds of thousands of hours on a single map and knowing it like the back of your hand and your opponent having played a few less hours so you're just better at memorizing the layout just means you're boring. Being forced to improvise completely based on absolutely minimal knowledge is a much better game play. I mean hell how many games does he go "it takes X seconds to cross one corner to the other" , that's just janky both players know how long things take so they just pre-programmed muscle responses, would love to see them going "oh shit what do we do"
Lowko move over ? What is that ?
Bring back steppes of war but with 12 worker starting economy
Bring back the Scourge?
Insane late game, getting him nothing in the end. More nerfs to protoss and give Zerg the gods darned Scourges back.
Spends 10 minutes explaining why he didn't invent the "Lowko Manuver".
..."But I'll take full credit for it!" 😂
I'm curious as to why max pax doesn't compete on the big off line tournaments
I could swear he said lord middle finger.
Tell the officials to stop slacking!
Lowko: "s-statussy" me: O///O
MaxPax letting Spawning pool live with 1% hp is painful, letting zerg main live in general and go for the fortified natural? man Max dropped the ball second game
Game 2 was a banger.
Maxpax best player!? so true lowko!
kill counter on worker kills?!
47:49 Stepmothership is currently stuck in the Nexus :D
I checked the comment section, your community has no men of culture Lowko
With the new patch, this matchup got the most predictable and most annoying to watch. Luring Zerg into heavy corrupter commitment just to switch back to a groundarmy and leave zerg on dead supply. It is obvious, easy to execute and impossbile to counter. If at least broodlords would be an option. Why did the counsil unfix them at all? Was the ghost-lobby interfering again?
I can't tell if it's clutch or pivotal.
Zerg needs a buff.
Not using carrier rush as part of video title :(
wtf did i just watch? ultras and queens vs mass carrier in 2024
Game 2 is a banger
I support every tournament that is not part of the sports washing of a dictatorships
The Mothership feels more like a hero these days, should the other races get one too?
No way should the new ability work while warping in
game 2 was another microbial shroud game - why were there no infestors for sooo long? D:
Nothing breaks the momentum of a video like pausing and rewinding. Maybe do highlights at the end of the video.
Let's see how Raynor loses this time!
Yay Zerg games
Protoss is overtuned, my gosh.