Amanda guilt trips Spock
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2014
- This clip used for a Beat Interaction Robert McKee based analysis of the episode available at: undergroundresearchinitiative....
Star Trek S2E10 Journey to Babel, Act 3, Scene 3.
Spock's mother, Amanda, confronts him to demand he relinquish command to a subordinate after Kirk has been knifed in the back and seriously wounded. Spock refuses. Amanda reminisces about Spock's bad childhood to evoke an emotional response, but this fails to chance his decision. Finally, she guilt trips him by threatening a long familial breach between mother and son. This puts Spock in a SOPHIE'S CHOICE DILEMMA, where no matter how he chooses, either DUTY TO FAMILY or DUTY TO SHIP, he must fail to fulfill DUTY.
Throughout, Spock refuses to respond to Amanda's emotional text, yet after she leaves, when alone, with his hand to the door, it becomes clear the character has had a powerful emotional experience.
"I'll hate you for the rest of my life." That got to him. You can see it in his eyes, the way he's standing. Brilliant.
That part is actually edited out of the BBC America version.
@@philipblakely6030
Fuck the BBC then.
Hell, that got to ME!
+Will Harris same here, it was if my own mother had said it.
Even all these years later, I can hardly stand to watch this scene in its entirety.
Though he gets along with her a lot better than he does with Sarek, you can see here that even Amanda doesn't always know how to make sense of him. He's substantially unlike either of his parents so they don't really understand him.
It's also interesting how she's sort of accepted her husband's way of life, praising it as a 'better' way to kirk & being able to read the both of them well enough, but there's still moments where she can't help but have a reaction like this.
What she dies not see is that Spock here over-compensates because obviously his father is not entirely satisfied with the way he has turned out as a Vulcan. As Spock points out to his mother, Sarek would be the first to not approve of his human decision under these circumstances.
@@christianealshut1123 Yeah, no, I‘ll bet Sarek would change his tune after no-longer being on the organ harvesters next stop! Sarek also knew what he was getting when he married (emotional human) Amanda. 😒
@@yvettemarshallTWN Sarek would have been like "Son, you saved my life. But you risked your mission to do so. That is illogical. I am but one man and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. And though secretly I'm glad to be alive, I must play the part of the stern father and put you over my knee. A good spanking is the Vulcan way and you want to be a good Vulcan, don't you Spock?"
@@jedsithor Yes, Papi, Spock would obediently reply. 🖖🏽 😌
@@yvettemarshallTWN Somewhere on the internet there's a fan fiction story with those exact words lol
Him placing his hand on that door was heartbreaking.
blockmasterscott YESSS!
Ruined only by the trivial fact that the door should have opened when he approached it. Or can it read minds?
That door realized drama was more important than opening! Give that door a promotion to acting Ensign.
larky368 some sliding doors don't open that quickly after someone has recently been through
@@larky368 Isn't the ship sentient? I heard that somewhere but I also haven't watched past season 2 of TOS
Spock, in The Wrath of Khan: "I have never taken the Kobiyashi Maru test." Like hell you haven't, Spock.
Opposing mom isn't a no-win scenario. It's suicide.
@@chrismc410 Suicide missions are nothing new to Spock.
@@matasa7463 if there is a higher purpose, not anything stupid. Nearly relieved a Commodore in command of the Enterprise over needless suicide. Kirk was on another ship trying to get a damaged to help Enterprise fight
Oh snap that's a point!!!
However you have to remember that Spock does not like his father on account of how Sarek treated him when he was a child. Sarek hated Spock until he was on his death bed on the Enterprise D. Sarek viewed Spock as inferior on account of him being half human.
Kirk and Spock made a great team, but it is Spock that I truly admired. The character Spock is a deep INDIVIDUAL! The logic Spock exuded such confidence and flawless logic. I love the end when Sarek wakes up:
Spock - “Emotional, isn’t she?”
Sarek - “She has always been that way.”
Spock - “Indeed? Why did you marry her?”
Sarek - “At the time, it seemed the logical thing to do.”
@ Purple Royalty. I must point out that Spock was not flawlessly logical in all his statements. Just two examples will suffice to prove that. First, in the episode "Court Martial" in which Captain Kirk is on trial for the supposed death of a Enterprise Records Officer Finney, Spock on the witness stand ludicrously compares Captain Kirk's typical behavior in a crisis to the laws of physics when he says to the female prosecutor (who was Kirk's ex-girlfriend) , "Lieutenant, if a hammer falls in a positive gravity atmosphere, I do not need to see it fall to know that it has in fact fallen. It is not his (Captain Kirk's) nature (to panic)". You can't compare ANY human's behavior in a stressful situation to the laws of physics because no human acts or behaves with consistent, flawless precision every time! Humans are not machines and Spock knows that, and yet he illogically and absurdly compares Kirk's behavior under stress to the laws of physics! Second, in "Amok Time", Spock contradicts himself when towards the end of the episode he says to T'Pring, "I see no logic in preferring Stonn over me". Earlier in the episode he told Captain Kirk that Vulcans don't choose their mates logically. They choose them emotionally because the emotions they attempt to suppress causes a build-up of internal pressure until their hormonal levels elevate to the point where they have to mate because of extreme emotional stress as demonstrated by Spock early in that episode when he gets furious at Nurse Chapel and angry at Captain Kirk. Although T'Pring has an additional reason other than her emotional attraction to Stonn for why she wants to divorce Spock in that she did not want, as she stated to Spock, to be married to a "legend", her major reason for preferring Stonn over Spock was her emotional attraction to Stonn.
But adult Vulcans don't marry as the result of logic, so the writers were being utterly inconsistent.
And there was nothing logical in marrying a member of another species and producing a halfbreed child who would feel at home nowhere.
@ Kit Cat. Theodore Sturgeon, the writer of the great Star Trek episode, "Amok Time" did ,unfortunately , make an error when towards the beginning of the episode, when Spock says to Kirk, "Haven't you ever wondered how Vulcans choose their mates?" and Kirk responds, "I guess we all assumed it is done quite logically" and then Spock says, "No it is not.", but at the end of the episode when Spock asks his wife T'Pring for an explanation for her challenging their marriage and she says, "Ston wanted me, I wanted him", Spock responds, "I see no logic in preferring Ston over me!" which contradicts Spock's statement earlier to Kirk that Vulcans don't choose their mates based on logic but based on emotion.
@@michaelbarlow6610 Well, Sturgeon contradicted himself, so I assume we are at liberty to go with Spock's initial explanation to Kirk if that seems to make more sense.
@@kitcat7538 but is it not logical to marry someone with whom you have a solid connection and deep compatibility with?
Leonard Nimoy at his best, this scene is so powerful. So much is conveyed between the words, the struggle that gets harder and harder with each word...
Beautifully acted by Nimoy. To me he along with Patrick Stewart were the best actors to ever be in Star Trek.
@ Manco82. The scene between Spock and his mother Amanda in "Journey To Babel" is beautifully acted by BOTH Jane Wyatt and Leonard Nimoy. Jane Wyatt was one of the greatest actresses the USA has ever produced. You also seem to forget or fail to recognize that WillIiam Shatner was outstanding as Captain Kirk. He was also excellent as the prosecutor in the 1970 made-for-TV movie "The Andersonville Trial" and in his performance in an episode of the original "The Twilight Zone" anthology TV series.
@@michaelbarlow6610 William Shatner was a member of the National Repertory Theatre in Ottawa. He acted in the Stratford Shakespeare Festival in Ontario. He was Christopher Plummer's understudy in Henry V on Broadway. He is a superb actor. Accounts of the making of Star Trek mention the fact that Shatner's classical training made it easy for him to try out alternate readings of the same line.
@ Kit Cat. As I've stated numerous times, William Shatner is an excellent actor when he wants to be!
@@michaelbarlow6610 Wyatt and Nimoy deserved Emmys for this episode.
2:45 - brilliant moment by Nimoy. The human half of him is in anguish, while the Vulcan half seeks to restrain it.
He has no human half.He is giving his father Vulcan blood .
Spock is not half of anything he is all of what he is
@@djackson4657 He's actually half human.
@@djackson4657 Since human blood is iron-based and Vulcan blood is copper-based, a human/Vulcan hybrid couldn't have existed anyway. I think of Spock as wholly Vulcan but with greater difficulty controlling his emotions than most Vulcans have.
I have no use for either of his awful parents. I don't care what canon says.
Oh, snap I must have missed the anguish part...🤔
The way she says "I cried too" ... I'd have caved in right there.
That line broke my heart . . . . for both of them.
Didn't break my heart. She was an unfit mother.
That's why you and I would never be First Officer on the Enterprise.
@Kit Cat She was way too hard on poor Spock, who would tell their son they'd hate them and then slap them?!
@@femalesupremacistoverlord6800 she was showing she meant business in a way that would be understood. I wouldn't have allowed it to get that far and would have ordered the JOOD (Junior Officer of the Deck)to take the deck and conn and gave the blood. I'd take the ass-chewing from Kirk later.
I'd rather take his ass-chewing than face my mom's wrath.
While I've never been a fan of the emotional fragility of a lot of the female characters in early Star Trek, I have to make an exception for this scene. It's one of the most touching scenes in the series by far.
and for this reason they are the only hope of salvation for humanity
Everyone commenting here is ridiculous. Toonbat, you are so offended by the “fragility” of the female characters but you don’t bat an eye at all the male characters who are slaughtered so often in each episode. It’s usually male red shirts who die senselessly. Oh no!! Women are being shown as they really are!! Are you people THIS far gone mentally that you can’t see this???
druidboy76
Ok boomer
TheVoiceOfTruth
Ok boomer
@@druidboy76
You're being an ignoramus.
We just want women to be written as real people and not as ludicrous gender stereotypes.
If you watch newer Star Trek series like Deep Space Nine, Voyager and Discovery, you'll see that female characters are given equal opportunities and privileges as men. The women in those newer series are stronger and more capable and than before; and they too do dangerous jobs and die just like the men, and we wouldn't want it any other way.
D.C. Fontana really "hit the ball out of the park" when she wrote this magnificent scene between Spock and his mother Amanda in "Journey To Babel"!
And Jane Wyatt was the perfect actress to play that part.
This was one of the most powerful scenes ever acted in any iteration of Star Trek. You could literally see Spock at war with himself, while his mother laid down some harsh words. Wyatt was brilliant in conveying the raw emotion of her character. All the way down to the tiny snarl she let out when she gritted her teeth and slapped Spock. I first saw this as a child and it hurt my feelings when she did it. Since then I've always had the most empathy for Spock. Great great scene.
@Great Man She had a very HUMAN response. She's no Vulcan. It's hard to rationalize the potential death of someone you love. And she had a point. At that time, the ship wasn't in danger and Scottie could've easily commanded the ship even when they were under attack. Indeed, it was Spock who had a lesson to learn, sometimes, sometimes the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many. As they did in Star Trek: The Search For Spock.
@Great Man You are quite right to rebuke her for being willing to put the entire ship at risk -- but her mistreatment of her son goes back to his childhood. Remember the episode in which Spock breaks into tears and tells Kirk that he was never permitted to tell his mother that he loved her?
The sad thing is that she was probably right about him - there still WAS a human part inside him, crying in this very moment because he wasn't allowed to save his father.
You can see it when he turns away from her. He’s almost about to cry, but he just about manages to hold it together.
Spock is one of the most interesting characters ever in fiction. And this is one of the great scenes.
She slapped him for real. Nimoy went above and beyond for this scene.
The infamous scene where Ronald Reagan seemingly slaps a woman; he slapped her so hard she was holding the other side of her face!
No CGI. No special effects. Just great acting.
This, this right here is why Star Trek endures. It’s not about space ships and phasers, transporters or warp drives, space battles and wars, it’s about the characters and what they’re going through.
Man, that scene was damn good. Spock has always been my favorite character on the show. Poor Spock, I wanted to give him a hug and a kiss on the cheek.
Yes, Spock always produces that reaction in us illogical, emotional Earthlings. Especially female Earthlings.
#smoochesforspock
YALL HE CAN FEEL UR EMOTIONS THROUGH TOUCH, HUGS AND KISSES WOULD PROBABLY MAKE HIM UNCOMFY. 😭
Sounds like Spock hung out in the Lower East Side of Vulcan when he was a kid. Tough neighborhood.
Too funny. I actually laughed! XD
Hahahahaha! It's true! The Jenkins boys ran the lower East side! th-cam.com/video/oltfeDY4X7g/w-d-xo.html
Well, actually Vulcan childhoods were MEANT to be tough. It was common for Vulcan children to keep selats, pets which would turn into veritable monsters if they were not fed on time, in order to teach them a sense of duty. Spock, in fact, did have one when he was a child. Vulcan childhood was not meant to be "fun and games" , certainly. In this way, on one level, their society could be called positively Spartan, or, more suitably expressed, Stoic.
@@christianealshut1123 Don't forget the bullying, poor Spock!
On the contrary, his father's family was the elite. That's why the "Amok Time" site was in his family. I imagine that lower-class families would have emigrated to a colony or become a trader like the one he pretends to be in "Errand of Mercy." But instead of just the accumulation of wealth, I think the upper classes would be based on the respect of the collective, such as by accomplishment and adherence to logic and emotional control. In another episode Spock says the feelings of friendship is considered "bad taste."
Remember, logic failed him, emotions failed him, he was constantly working on an a philosophy that would guide him through life. This is tough for any man, and his character had a much mixed background. Most of Star trek was based on human concerns, imagine a man brought up in a mixed marriage with two different cultures, the dilemmas are all the same. Duty to what you live for, or duty to where you came from. Leonard nimoy was a brilliant actor, and as much as he hated his character in the beginning, he grew to love him. Just like the rest of us.
Spock: Without Kirk, I am the only one even remotely capable of commanding this ship satisfactory.
Sulu: Ouch
Scotty: Excuse me?
@@MrIronhat Scotty performed well to save the ship in "A Taste of Armageddon" and a few other episodes, but the top men were needed in a situation like this as well as "Elaan of Troyius" which was similar with both internal and external threats to the Enterprise, and those aboard.
Uhura: am I gonna have to wait till the cartoons to take command?
That slap wasn't so much aimed at Spock as it was a reaction to all the grief that she has had to endure living the life of a Vulcan. Can you imagine how many times she must have wanted to slap someone upside the head all these years?
Sarek seems pretty slappable at times lmao. The Vulcans can be such cold hearted people in the name of "logic". And I do wonder if Amanda ever really got the same respect on Vulcan as if Sarek had just married a Vulcan woman
Spock was such a terrific complex character. It really bugs me that they left this aspect of his character out of the reboot.
+Brian Levine Only Leonard Nimoy could pull off looking so superficially zen and relaxed while convincing us that inside he was in hard emotional turmoil.
+Brian Levine I've heard here and there about how they've rebooted the entire character of Spock and that's the main reason I haven't bothered to watch the rebooted show...
Except for in Spock's Brain.
Brian Levine remember that the rebooted Spock is much younger than the prime Spock was-literally out of Academy- and more in touch with his father and the original Spock.
SantomPh I understand what happened in the movie. I just think that it was a mistake for the writers to abandon that aspect of classic Spock when developing the character for the reboot.
What an amazing show on so many levels. So far ahead of its time.
Not only interracial, but inter-species.
@wnc817 No such thing. Better to put such wrong thoughts out of your head.
@wnc817 Delete your comments now or I will be alerting the ADL to investigate and possibly remove your account.
@wnc817 The ADL has now opened a case file on your account. Your online profile will inevitably be erased, and it was all for nothing. Afterward I will return here to erase my own comments and it will be as if this entire conversation had never occurred. Our truth is the only truth, and in the future you will do well to remember that.
Yep, Roddenberry’s ambitions fulling coming to the front.
Actually, it's an awfully good argument AGAINST mixing species. The whole relationship of Spock's parents is ridiculous anyway but at the very least they should have had the decency to give him up for adoption so he could be raised on Earth.
Earth in Star Trek is described as a welcoming place where hundreds of different species from across the galaxy have come to live.
Vulcan is species-ist and xenophobic.
This is Star Trek
1:33 He would've said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"
***** I was just thinking the same thing!
Spock had enough sense not to try that one on his mother. Logic does not work on an angry mother. It is not logical, but almost always true.
Logic does not work on any woman!
Don't be so sure. There are women out there that are very logical, to the point that it infuriates others.
Jerry Hinkle Untrue. Women are often times more logical than their male counterparts. When it comes to a child, spouse or sibling, all bets are usually off. But barring that, we can be very rational and logical. I know because I am a woman, myself and I look at problems logically; except when it comes to my husband and kids and then you just don't want to mess with them. You'd be safer walking in the alleys of New York City at night.
RIP Miss Jayne Wyatt, Mark Lenard and Leonard Nimoy. Such a good episode. Spock's relationship with his parents is how a relationship a teenager as well as an adult has with his/her parents at times
Jane Wyatt was unfamiliar with Star Trek and thought it was a sort of campy funny show. When she realized it was serious she leaned into it and gave a great performance.
No matter how logical Spock comes across, he can't beat his mother in an argument
The door should have opened when Spock put his hand on it! How did the door know?
zr1100c3 I don't think Spock was close enough to allow the electric eye beam to be broken, which would allow the door to open. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, anyway. :)
+zr1100c3 yeah that question does put a hiccup in the force of the scene.
+Robert Nielsen noble effort Robert :-)
He approached it very slowly
Spock probably calculated the exact speed to move not to trigger it
Intention , please think before you reply
Had Spock dismissed his duty and turned command over to Cmdr. Scott so he could save his father, Sarek would have been appalled. I can see what he would say, "You have disappointed me, my son. You have risked this vessel, a valuable resource, and all aboard her, including many highly valued Federation passengers all to save the life of one man. You have ignored your Vulcan heritage and the Vulcan way of life. You have been among humans for far too long."
And Sarek would have been correct in his assessment.
I have always felt LCMDR Scott had a better feeling for the ship and its capabilities than Spock and was possibly a better tactician ("canny"---more intuitive about what an enemy might do). On that basis, the logical thing to do would have been to have relinquished command to Scott.
@@johnminehan1148 But not the correct way. The 2nd in command had more command experience than the 3rd in command. It's not just feel of the ship. And the Chief Engineer will serve the ship better from Engineering.
Kelly Rayburn Not always the way it works, especially where Scott is more junior as he transferred from the Merchant Navy (The Ultimate Computer). Scott has demonstrated tactical skill (Wednesday's Child) that Spock does not necessarily have (Galileo 7).
Didn't realize Scott had transferred from the Merchant Navy. I've seen the Ultimate Computer several times and never seen a reference to him transferring. I always thought he went to Starfleet Academy, started Command School and then was transferred to Engineering College when it became apparent that he was better suited to Engineering.
But I still maintain that Spock, being the first officer was the correct person to command the vessel in the absence of the captain. Maybe Scott could have done a better job, but the fact is, Spock was the first officer. The first officer is always the next in line for commanding a vessel if the captain is not able or fit. Having Scott command the vessel when Spock was able would have been unbelievable. And believeability was more important than anything else to Roddenberry. The stories *HAD* to be believable. Having the 2nd officer assume command when the 1st officer was fit for duty just isn't believable.
Being "half" Vulcan Spock growing up would have been subjected to much more social pressure/scrutiny than normal to show his people he was one of them, than a normal full blooded Vulcan child would ("..other boys tormenting him, saying he wasn't Vulcan"). Likely then this would have led to Spock over-compensating; behaving more "Vulcan" than even most Vulcans do. Add to that the pressure of being said half-Vulcan son of a prestigious Vulcan Ambassador (Sarek). One whose probably very rare decision to marry an Earth (human) woman would have aroused even more public notice/comment/scrutiny, leaving Spock with a massive need to prove himself to everyone especially himself.
She definitely pushed every emotional button she could.
And he responded the way of Vulcan should even if the last moment was human.
You CHOSE to marry a Vulcan, CHOSE to live that life, CHOSE to have a son and CHOSE to allow that son to be raised purely in The Vulcan way. That's some fucked up shit she just pulled.
I remember seeing this scene, for the first time, when I was a boy. And I understood it. Now, many decades later, I not only understand it, I feel it. Only great writing and great acting can reach so many generations.
Jane Wyatt is tremendous here. Amanda is human, and a wife and a mother. She communicates her view to her son with absolute clarity.
As an asperger , I recognize myself in Spock here.
My mother often argued from emotions rather than reason and became angry at me when she thought I didn't understand.
(Of course, not in such an extreme situation.)
Your mother didn't understand you
Asparagus?
@@shanechandler1018
Something like that, yes.
@@chevalierj3930
"Asperger."
English is not my native language, and the translation went wrong.
@@thehappyvulcan Ah, alright, I also have aspergers. I have had similar situations with my mother, she does not understand my detachment to people. Just remember that you need to fully explain your argument to avoid misunderstandings.
The acting is off the chart here!! I'm human so I'm crying lol
That smack was loud!!😁🤣
Yes yes it was. Spock deserved it for his attitude. Lol.. Pretty funny. 😆🤣😂
It was so sad of Amanda to slap her only son Spock in the face when he was refusing to donate some of his blood to save his father's life because Captain Kirk was attacked and had to be in sick bay until he recovers. Good thing that Kirk tricked Spock into thinking he made a full recovery with McCoy's help so that Sarek can get the blood transfusion to save his life.
Her treatment of her son was sad from the beginning. In another episode, Spock tearfully says to Kirk that as a child he was never permitted to tell his mother that he loved her.
Spock's parents brought a half-human child into the world and then refused to allow him to BE half human.
Have you read the book ‘Sarek’ set years later, where Amanda actually does die and Sarek puts duty before being with her? Spock is there, and blames Sarek for not being.
@@kitcat7538 , I have always interpreted that to mean that Spock would not allow himself to tell his mother he loved her, because emotion like that was forbidden on Vulcan. I never saw it that Ananda had forbidden him to tell her. As a fully human mother, I think she would have loved that.
She slapped him a good one.
But it wasn't so pleasant for her doing that,which she never thought she'd do in her life.
And Spock respected his father even more.
Yes she did
This just continues a pattern of abuse which goes back to Spock's childhood. In another episode of TOS, Spock tells Kirk tearfully that his mother would never permit him to tell her that he loved her. She has clearly always been an unfit mother.
And the character is absurd anyway. Spock is quite right that she should know what being Vulcan means by now. The writers of this episode really didn't think it through.
@@kitcat7538 I agree that Amanda was Far from perfect, but she never told him that he couldn't say he loved her. You're thinking of the episode "The Naked Time" where the crew got infected somehow and was forced to spout out there deeps thoughts. Spock was the one who felt he couldn't tell her that he loved her, that doing so was too human, even as a child.
Boy...it's tough being Spock.
One of my favorite episodes and favorite scenes.
No bloodshed, no mindless explosions, no steamy romance. Just raw emotion from family conflict. Incredible scene
Out of all the silly moments of TOS, it's these that are so memorable
😂she was prepping for that slap since the start. Lord that was a real one too!
That's a Star Trek historic slap🥇🤣🏆
🖖🏾
Slapped the logic out of him 🤣🤣🤣
Legends say that slap kept traveling at warp 9.3 until it landed on Picard's head.
Spock never thought to see the day when his human mother would slap him in the face because he couldn't turn over command of the Enterprise to Scotty so that he could transfer his blood to save his father after Jim Kirk,his commanding officer and friend,got attacked by an Andorian who later got exposed as an impostor.
I will never forget when Amanda slapped her son in the face, It was a stinging reminder to Spock about his betrayal of his father.
Spock's dual heritage naturally gives rise to the internal conflicts he faces at every turn, making him a truly tragic figure. In this case there is no one "good" decision, only the lesser of evils. You are forgetting that he is absolutely correct in assuming that should he choose to save his father over his command duties, his father - although alive - would disrespect that decision forever. This - from a father who already disrespects his son for the choices he has made. Aside from the events in Amok Time, this has to be one of the worse emotional situations the character has confronted. But don't tell me he made the wrong choice. I personally think his argument , while tragic, is sound. Amanda, a human caught in the middle , is the true loser. Oh - and don’t expect deep thinking , existential doubt or character analysis from the reboot. Enjoy the "cartoon" versions of the crew, but don’t bother if you want real art. Watch TOS and TNG instead.
Great analysis and I completely agree on the new movies. They are abominations in my mind. And while they have the name Star Trek and have the characters they will never represent the true spirit of the franchise.
Absolutely correct. Sarek would have been disappointed had Spock dismissed his duty to save him. It would add weight to Sarek's belief that Spock had been incorrect in choosing Starfleet over the Vulcan Science Academy. I understand that Amanda wanted to save her husband. But she's not looking at it in logical terms, but emotional ones; which is normal for her.
There is a reboot?
Spocks mother is no loser, she is a woman who loves her husband and son and too is conflicted.
This show was well ahead of its time with great stories, realistic stories. I like these very much.
@@kellyrayburn4093 At the end of ST4 Sarek says that his son's friends on Ent ARE off good charachter and that perhaps he was wrong for opposing his enlistment in Starfleet. th-cam.com/video/X0Yy6x2Jky8/w-d-xo.html
I've always loved this scene. The end is particularly affecting. It gets me every time.
Couldn't they have done a blood transfusion in the span of this conversation?
That slap looked very real.
The one Ronald Reagan gave the woman in his movie, featured in a Michael Moore movie, was so hard the character was holding the opposite side of her face afterwards.
In this moment of great emotional drama, I kind of chuckle a bit whenever Spock puts his hand on the door... I am fully aware of the significance of the gesture, but I always think "Hm, it doesn't seem like the ship's computer has fully recognized Spocks presence onboard, otherwise the door would open just by his proximity like it did for his mother and he'd be standing there with his palm pressing against nothing but air"...
One little plot hole here is that it doesn’t really take very long to donate blood. In the course of time in which this conversation is occurring, Spock could come very close to a complete blood donation.
Yeah and where's the second in command? It's Scotty right? Why can't he be in charge for like an hour tops while the transfusion occurs? There's a reason there's a chain of command in the military.
If you remember, it isn't a simple blood transfusion. The operation requires a lot of blood and Sarek has a rare type which they don't have in the blood banks. In order to donate enough blood without killing him, Spock has to take an experimental drug, its effects are unknown.
She slapped the Vulcan half out of him.
Spock realised that sometimes that pesky human half can come in handy.
Great episode. Not my number 1 favorite, but... this IS my favorite scene in the whole series. It gives us such a deep sense of what Spock's life was like on Vulcan. Wyatt & Nimoy are perfect in it. And I swear, I cry every single time she says "...and I'll hate you for the rest of my life."
This is acting of the highest order possible. And if anyone, ever thought that Spock doesn't care, needs to watch this. Awesome.
She slapped him into the following week. I even felt that one.
This is such a good episode and this scene proves it.
Damn if they'd spend as much time transfusing as they did standing there jaw-jacking, the Old Man woulda been outta the woods and Spock coulda been back on the bridge.
Such a beautiful, well acted scene. Best of the best! Always loved Spock.
"Guilt can be a powerful motivator. Don't let it cloud your judgement." Elderly T'Pol (Star Trek ENT "E-squared") The Vulcanian woman is talking to her son Captain Lorian whom happens to be Trip Tucker's son as well.
Spock:" Ow that slap hurt...fine I'll go, Oh, the Door is broken, feck sake"
This was completely awesome
This is the biggest guilt trip I have ever seen. Calm down lady
Vulcan or not, Spock was hurting.
In the end, she actually did reach the human-side of him.
That's probably why he didn't question very much the Captain's fitness to return to duty.
Via her version of splitting his wig
@@sandal_thong8631and Kirk didn't blame him. He himself would have let Khan "deprive him of his cheeks" in front of the whole crew rather than piss his own mother off, let alone Amanda's. Spock would get the taste slapped out of him for not trying to save his father, Kirk for allowing it to happen, McCoy for not working fast enough, Chapel for not being aggressive enough for claiming her son and Scotty for not assuming command fast enough
A stunningly powerful, emotional, and well-directed scene that lives forever. Superb.
The logical outcome of Spock trying to be more Vulcan than a Vulcan;).
One of the best scenes in the original series. IMHO
Poor old Spock he always seemed to get slapped, even by his own Mother!
3:09 the door opens for her, she leaves and the door closes.
3:14 the door DOES NOT opens for him.
The door man was told not to open it for him. Just saw Star Trek VI scene where Kirk drops his luggage, propping the door open and records his captain's log as people like Valeris are walking by.
Both Spock and Amanda are each absolutely right, of course.
The music used in the climatic-scene of 'City on the Edge of Forever.' Quite appropriate here, as well.
Getting myself to watch early Star Trek when I decided to watch all of TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY wasn't easy at first. Really took getting used to the extremely dated and sometimes (imho) bad/wooden acting. Scenes such as these which fortunately started appearing after the first dozen or so episodes made it worth it though.
ENT with Captain Archer is very awesome too! A real fu*king shame they cancelled it before it's time. std is absolute hog sh!t
@@sydneyloli5849 In ST: Enterprise, the acting is wooden, the sets are dull, the uniforms are drab, and the scripts are boilerplate sci-fi. It was the start of Star Trek's decline after the glorious highs of Deep Space Nine and Voyager.
You're right about Discovery though, and ST: Picard is nauseating.
Superb acting and dialogue. Great, great scene.
That hairdo is literally monumental.
So... now that I am older I see things I didn't notice before. Spock's Vulcan logic was misplaced here. He did give the blood (via trickery) and the ship didn't (metaphorically) fall apart because of it. The irony is that Spock is being very emotional in his logic. He didn't trust in the skills of fellow officers.. he didn't have faith they could do a good a job as he could... that's hubris... major hubris... and a form of vanity. He also mentions how his father would react.... isn't giving a damn about how your dad would react pretty damn illogical? Why should Spock give a damn? That shouldn't of been a factor for a person who ignores his emotions.... but obviously it was. Vulcan logic DID NOT save the day here... and neither father or son seem to be aware of it. They make a teasing "joke" at "emotional" Amanda at the conclusion... but really the joke is on them.
The statement by Sarek that his marriage "seemed the logical thing to do at the time" doesn't bear scrutiny either. This episode is about the pretense of logic being used to hide emotion.
He was next in command. It’s not that he didn’t believe in his fellow officers, but you don’t just hand off command because it’s not convenient for you at the time. His duty to the ship comes first as a Starfleet officer. He did exactly what Starfleet would expect him, or any officer, to do.
@@trekgirl1000 yes but Sarek was a major player as an ambassador. Was there really and truly a valid reason Scotty couldn't take charge (when he had done so) and let Spock save a noted Federation ambassador? Outside of Spock's poorly hidden emotional turmoil
@@googleuser7454 possibly he could have. I think he wasn’t certain that Starfleet would agree to that logic though.
The ship came under attack. If Scotty was on the bridge, then he wouldn't have been in engineering. Mr. Spock said "Vulcan's never bluff" which makes one question whether Mr. Spock or Scotty would have been able to defeat the enemy ship.
If I remember correctly, it is Kirk and McCoy who come up with the solution--to pump Kirk full of stimulants or something to allow him to return temporarily to the bridge. But what happens when Spock later finds out that they pulled a fast one on him?
How did Amanda's family take it when she told them that she was marrying a Vulcan,assuming that she had any relatives when she met Sarek?
That topic isn't explored in the series,but even in books I haven't seen anything that suggested they had an issue with it.
This is easily my favorite Amanda/Spock [mother/son] moment. I’m even crying again and I’ve seen ‘Babel’ thousands of times!!!
Spock may be his fathers son, but underneath it all, he's still his mother's little boy.
What I noticed about this episode is that Scotty is mentioned a few times, but not seen.
They even tour engineering and Scotty isn't there.
The loudest slap heard around the galaxy...yours very truly Alfonso Cantu USMC
A masterful performamce from Leonard Nimoy.
I first watched this many years ago on TV, and still find it a powerful scene.
"Nothing is as important as you father's life" Balderdash. The 400 people on that ship are 400 times as important....
That was an amazing and unforgettable scene.
You don't need to be a Vulcan to understand that two equally valid duties sometimes leave you with no easy option.
Did any one else feel that slap
Nothing that followed this series ever came close. Every episode had a moral to the story.
Astonishing acting, extreme professionalism, moving and realistic.
Amanda is willing to sacrifice Spock's life to save Sarek
If Spock takes that drug it could kill him . Today this story is outdated, when open heart surgery is performed they do not need huge amounts of blood.
@@djackson4657 Dr. Joseph M'Benga should have assisted in the operation. He was there for "A Private Little War" and another episode I think. "That Which Survives."
Possibly the greatest scene in all of TOS!
Spock's situation is completely understandable in this scene. I mean, classic ultimatum; risk war or risk the life of family? And if he chose the latter, would they forgive him for potentially forfeiting thousands, if not millions, of lives to war???
You just don't see this quality of humanity on TV any more let alone social media
What’s the name of the music or theme that plays from the middle?
Greatest show in the history of Television.
one of
yep,she was make'n those violin strings SMOKE right there.
Does anyone know the name of the music that starts at 1:47 when Amanda is speaking? I'm obsessed with that somber theme - is it on cello? - and have been trying to find a purely instrumental version of it everywhere! I think it was originally composed for Amok Time and you can hear it used there with different instruments and at a different pace. But I can't get this version out of my head.
I believe it is marriage council
th-cam.com/video/onUvPT0NK3s/w-d-xo.html
Similar scores:
Contrary Order-th-cam.com/video/Vfxl--gBy8c/w-d-xo.html
Mr Spock-th-cam.com/video/u5rGpV8V5vA/w-d-xo.html
The ritual-th-cam.com/video/aivhizP4Ky0/w-d-xo.html
Remorse-th-cam.com/video/gyKhNuV_SF8/w-d-xo.html
It is beautiful and haunting and I have never forgotten it, or this scene. Did you ever find the name?
It’s Spock’s theme.
It sounds like the theme titled "Marriage Council" from the first episode of season 2, "Amok Time"
"Live long and prosper, Spock," said T'Pau.
"I shall do neither: I have killed my captain and my friend," replied Spock.
Audio: th-cam.com/video/onUvPT0NK3s/w-d-xo.html
Video: th-cam.com/video/cVUN392a2Fw/w-d-xo.html
Amanda didn't need to slap Spock. He wasn't being heartless or cold: he was the only one who could run the ship in Kirk's absence, and it pained him to do it. I agree with Spock: how could Amanda not understand Vulcans after marrying one, raising one, and living on Vulcan? Sarek would've done the same thing as Spock, and he's far more colder than Spock ever was. How come Amanda hasn't slapped Sarek? He's more deserving of her disapproval than Spock. it's one thing to be angry someone for lacking compassion, it's another thing to punish someone for trying to do the best they can under very difficult circumstances. It bugs me that Amanda would punish Spock for doing his duty in an understandably difficult situation, since she was the one who loved and understood Spock while his father didn't. Sarek's second wife, Perrin. is similarly quick to judge Spock harshly
over a perceived disrespect for Sarek. It would've been nice to see someone defend Spock's motives and actions more often.
Regardless of understanding Vulcans, Amanda is still very much human, and her husband, the man she loves, is dying, their son is the only one who can help him. Spock previously agreed to help then now refuses to take command, which is understandable for a First Officer, but this could come at the cost of his father's life. Amanda is not a solider, she wants her husband to live. She is desperate and upset. The slap was out of emotion not cruelty.
Although if he DID turn over command to Scotty,I don't think it would be worst case scenario. Scotty isn't" just an engineer,"he's a battle tested veteran with more years in space than either Kirk or Spock.He's shown sound judgement when in command.
photonicus That makes absolute sense. It might be prejudice against officers who came over from the Merchant Service.
@@Cassimfan Remember the episode in which Spock tells Kirk tearfully that as a child he was never permitted to tell his mother that he loved her?
This is an abusive relationship.
I felt that slap.
She TRIED to guilt-trip Spock, and failed. Then, exercising her mother's prerogative, she slapped his insolent face!
She tried to “Mind fuck” him. Her version of the Vulcan mind meld.
She could have said go outside and replicate me a switch....