It's a shame some people are just picking up "take pharah" from this, so maybe i can help! its all about positioning and chipping away at the VALUE of the builders, once that is gone its easy mode. Heroes that can do this are pharah, widow, genji, tracer, winston, dva but pharah is the best and most reliable :) Hope this helped! -w
But you only actually explained the distance counter with Farah as an example. It's pretty easy to see how Hanzo and Widowmaker can operate similarly, but you've been a bit too implicit about how Genji and Tracer would counter turrets. I've seen it said rather that turrets are mainly good for zoning them out.
Whenever I watch videos like this one it fells like suggesting precisely that, and as an old tf2 player Isee it like: using a soldier (aka pharah) to destroy a sentry nest (aka torb and symmetra nest) is good idea but when enginners get smarter with positioning the best ideas are to use a demoman (aka junkrat) because he can simply destroy from out of your field of view ,or an ubercharged heavy (aka nano bossted reinhardt ) taking the damage for the team, and everytime I'm playing with friends this old tactics usualy works. But all that said , keep up the good work in teaching the community tobe more tatical.
I think Junkrat works very well for this, since you can mine jump up to see where turrets are and then spam bombs over walls to kill them without exposing yourself. Then again, I'm heavily biased towards junkrat.
Sam Watts pharah can easily defeat soldier in 1v1, if your soldier is killing her then she probably sucks. I play a lot of pharah and soldiers are so easy to take down
We have covered this topic before but as people still feel that Symmetra and Torb feel like a nightmare to face, today we are here to go over it from another angle, success lies in the approach you to take to the engagements! FREEDO explains how to carefully pick apart Sym Torb defensive set ups carefully, to whittle them down. This is the most effective with the ranged assault of Pharah, but can be done with other characters as well, if you understand what type of key positioning you're looking for. This should also help in the new CTF game mode, Let us know what you think and be sure to drop a Like & Subscribe if you enjoyed! -F
I think the range should be reduced back to its previous numbers, because with the current range symm is too powerful if you don't know how to counter her, or if you get into her range
Reduce her ammo for her damage output potential assuming she gets up to full charge 100 ammo is far to high before reload and make the reload reset her weapon charge to say 50% i think this would be a nice balance chance no need to nerf her range or damage just tweak the ammo at the very least that why they have to to more than run forward behind a shield holding down fire and not caring about ammo because they have 100
Not at all. Symmetra just punishes bad positioning. Against bad players or unorganized teams, Symmetra can seem like a god, but it is VERY easy to counter her with mobile or ranges heros, like tracer, a good widow, pharah, etc.
I had an interesting Mystery Heroes match yesterday. Enemy team managed to roll 4 Torbs on Hollywood offense after capturing the payload point with 4 seconds left. They all of course put their turrets on the payload, and anyone that entered line of sight of it from then onwards died instantly. I did get D.Va, and tried to use my defense matrix, but my team sadly didn't even try to take advantage of it, and we got steamrolled :/
The best part about using Hanzo against Torb turrets is that even if you're in range of the thing, you're a projectile character which means, if you time it right, you can peak and spam arrows until it dies
Usually in my solo queue games torb turrets are always going to be within 40 meters of you as pharah because of line of sight and angles of attack. Torb tends to counter pharah at my level. This video is only really relevant in high level play. It's also hard to hit torb turrets from like 60 meters away. I think it does make sense to be patient as characters like pharah unless she can kill a turret and then get healed safely or hit it with splash damage from outside LOS. Try to stay out of the line of sight if you have to fight. Get out of its line of sight asap. But mostly you rely on other heroes like junkrat or reinhardt to deal with the turrets.
Really, most of the issue players have with Symmetra isn't so much the turrets, it's her primary. Sure, using Pharah or another hero with range will keep *you* from being overrun by her, but there will always be other heroes who can't deal with an aggressive Sym. The thing is that Sym has a relatively small hitbox and a primary fire that doesn't require aiming and has frankly ridiculous damage. Heroes that should normally destroy squishies (Reaper, Soldier, etc.) have a hard time hitting her if she's constantly running in circles and jumping around, while you only have to be in the corner of her vision to get melted. Really the only good solution when she's caught in enclosed spaces is Roadhog, if she's alone. If she's got others set up in the room with her, it's damn hear impossible to get anywhere.
SwarzeTrauer I completely agree and tbh idk if it's lag or something but a couple times a day the beam from her primary has clipped the corner of walls. Even when I break line of sight making it impossible to escape unless I have a hero with movement ability like tracer or genji.. honestly they need to fix that and make it so that the beam loses full charge immediately if u switch from one target to another
I think this is pretty much a common/well known tactic among the more experienced Overwatch players. Thing is, as soon as your dealing with a symmetra/torbjorn combo, even that the tactical approach won't help. A well placed turret position will be tough to hit by pharah + tor can build a new one so fast, that he can keep the pressure on pharah. So basically torbjorn can imo actually be a very good pharah counter, whereas hit scans are often to squishy, and are hard to land hits with on a flying Pharah. So ye, it's aknown tactic, but pharah/tor combo is still a pain and in the lower ranks a guaranteed win on the def side.
You ... do realize Symmetra has a projected barrier now right? Due to the cooldown, she can throw out shields faster than Pharah can kill them. Combined with the right click, Pharah can't just stay in a spot and spam at the set up. The weakness of Sym/Torb is that enemies have to funnel through a choke point, which dive comps can avoid entirely.
Thank you for not singing. Biggest issue I have is that even when clearing the builders' setups, the team is either too slow or we've taken too many losses to push through, and they get the chance to just set up again.
Sym can move very close in (disrupting standard play style, throwing off aim,. the same reason that at middle to lower level Pharah is more effective than at higher levels -- having to tilt your aim or change your horizon beyond a certain natural number of degrees challenges the layplayer) and drift in an unpredictable way that throws off mid to lower level folks which very few people at that level have the ability to predict reliably and/or counter aim against. And again, that is the majority of the game. Her damage ramp plus the way her disconnect works makes it very challenging to for middle to low rank players to deal with her in any consistent way, while her lock on make sit very easy for the same group to play her. That's the complication. At that level, people play her almost like a flanker, working to get behind groups as they are distracted by frontal force. And if she sneaks up behind your group and you don't have tank health, once that beam connects, you're basically dead.
I love how everyone in the comments is acting like they're pro and never lost to torb and sym, both of the have the highest win rate in the game on all platforms for a reason(sym first and torb second).
They have the highest winrate because they're most often played on Point A defense. If Point A is taken, a lot of players will switch to something else, especially on Assault/Escort maps like Numbani. So if Point A is held successfully then Sym gets 100% of the win, but if it's captured then they switch to a different hero and Sym only gets a fraction of the loss (assuming they even end up losing). That's how Blizzard's winrate stats work.
Love your videos man watch them pretty much daily. What's been working for me against these set ups almost every time is any character that doesn't have a drop off damage. So pretty much everyone that you've listed. I couldn't help but notice as well at 5:06 you said "helpfur" which was hilarious and accidental of course. But I would love to see a video on how to correlate let's say aiming videos and grouping the team up on console. Because a lot of the methods are great for pc, but for console ( primarily aiming, and team coagulation) is rare to work. Discord is a great app and I use it but I have yet to find the right group of people to keep me level and help benefit one another. Thanks again and keep it up!
It's still a big problem with an uncoordinated team, which is almost always the case in solo queue. Without coordination it can be impossible to get through a good defence because either i) Your team keeps poking when the turrets are dead, and miss the opportunity to make a push, ii) your team don't cover you when you're trying to focus the turrets and you get melted, or iii) they don't even give you the chance to take a position, just run in and get blown up over and over.
Sombra : invisibility from turret view , gun knocks off symmetras turrets easily , hack shuts down torbs turret . Translocatior helps when symmetra locks on and also can be use like widows grapple to get to turrets in higher places . Only weakness is squishyness and being shot while hacking , other then that she's almost perfect for a builder counter
Except the issue is that when you play Pharah. The sentry just blast you all day and even if you hit it enough they will just build another turrent so it's like you didn't do anything.
Ray k I've been in this situation so many times. That I know it doesn't matter destroying turrets doesnt work well because torbs turrets can see you from so far you get shot down by it anyway. And plus its still wouldnt be 6v6 because its already 6v13 those turrets are like having to deal with another person. Getting shot down by a turret and a Soilder 76 everytime you go into the air... Lets just face it this game is not balanced enough to combat certain team compositions. Unless you have a fully funtioning team that communicates and this never happens on console. The other team doesn't have to do anything but watch you fry as you struggle.
Thing is, Freedo is right, *IF* and just *if*, your team is going in and keeping the opponents busy. If the enemy team, and especially their soldier/ana/widow/(lvl2)Torb-turret, are not busy, your Pharah's 200HP are gone asap. And then you get no value out of Pharah in return, even feeding their ults.
The issue comes with the additional armor that he provides to the team. Combine that with a flank that is guarded by a turret (where a Symmetra generator is at), then their team is practically un-killable.
Thank you. I always felt like I was playing Pharah wrong against triple tanks. I guess I just saw her as a flanker character so when there are no squishes to hit she became less effective I didn't even think to use her as a chip away character and now that's going to change how I use her.
Do you think that using the spacebar is better for aim control with phara? I find myself using left click a lot when I play phara, and it feels less good than hovering with spacebar.
Slow moving ball can be chipped away at easily by Symm/Tjorb, but a faster more agile group, doesn't get bogged down so easily. Interesting concept, will definitely be incorporating it into my game. Thanks :)
I need help. I'm stuck in elo hell and I can't get out. my sr is 1977 right now. I understand overwatch is a team game and requires teamwork to win, but how can I with with a team that didn't want to coordinate with me? How do I deal with people who never switch and always trickle in? Overwatch is not a game where you can carry your team by yourself and I'm a support main. What do I do?
You're doing something wrong then. The turret will prioritize the nearest possible target. If it's firing at you then you're either much closer than a Phara needs to be or you're going in alone. Both avoidable mistakes.
...means, don't go after the turret, if your team isn't pushing. If you float in the far distance with Pharah, and you get shot by the turret: don't poke - and back off. Sadly that happens a lot on soloQ, because your own team isn't pushing.
The biggest thing here is making sure you have competent teammates complementing your counter. I'm a Pharah main and when I'm on turret duty so many times it gives away my location and my teammates are unable to get picks while the enemies backs are turned dealing with me. When I die all the work is wiped if they can just rebuild their setup.
Another option other than Pharah is Junkrat. While pharah can deal with the defenses effectively from a safe range, with the right angles, junkrat can deal with it closer up by exploiting safe zones and making use of his primary fire's mechanics. He can lob over obstacles, he can bounce off walls. And his ultimate makes a great scouting tool against the builders! It can locate where they're building next, it can hunt down that pesky shield generator, and if you time it effectively, you can take out the builders themselves before they're able to recover from their losses.
How does Zen fair against the Sym/Torb set up? He has no damage fall off nor does his projectile arc. Plus his alt fire might be effective against immobile turrets. Just throwing that out there, tell me if I'm wrong.
CTF is a lot more fun once you know how to smash a symm web and a torb turret. Pharah and junkrat are both good for it, but even Lucio or another Symmetra can be effective at breaking down turrets at long range or from behind cover, and Winston is still a good anti Symmetra pick I see a lot. Using cover well and knowing your avenues of attack are vital.
As someone who plays both Symmetra and Torbjorn often this advice is only effective against static builders who build in predetermined spots, against active builders it will fall apart as they tend to build in ways to place attackers at risk, or commonly just waste an attacker's time. Advice to Pharas or any other character ie Widow considering these tactics, Soldier may not reach you and be ignorant of your attacks, but Torb will always be aware and he can hit you, peeking in a predictable manner and standing still at even long range will be the death of you, DO NOT HIDE BELOW LEDGES.
very good content as usual from you guys...i really enjoy these videos..i myself always pick pharah wen playing against mei sym and torb and even bastion and there is very little enemies can do
Excellent bit at the end, I agree that people get too meta-minded and forget to look for the planned counters and consider that, maybe, just MAEBE, those intended counters might indeed be effective.
Can we.. or I get some advice on CTF I loose almost all my games and can't figure out a good strategy on my own.. rush in, flag gets taken.. split up, out numbered.. flank, get destroyed.. tank it up, get flag taken.. honestly I don't know if me and my friends suck or we just don't have a proper strat..
Torbjörns Turret reaches Pharah wherever she is though. I tried this several times but no matter how far away I am if I am in sight of the turret it can shoot me. And it is impossible with Pharah to stay out of the line of sight and deal damage at the same time.
I do get that many plat and diamond players are going up against Symmetra? But is Symmetra "good" enough to play in like the big leagues or on Master rank level?
"Don't let the meta rule dictates what you can pick!" As a Junkrat player. I agree totally with this quote. I can be pretty decent with Junkrat. Way more that I am with Phara or Reaper, and sometimes people flame me by picking him. And then I trade so no one trows the game like they used to do. And I cannot explore my full potencial.
Video/lesson request: When to initiate (either ult or non-ult) on defense on Payload maps. For the Hybrid Payload maps, specifically the streets phase. More broadly, the video could just be about how to pace and place one's team while defending on Payload. My team is good at grouping for KOTH and Assault, but we seem to run into pacing and grouping issues with Payload. My guess is because the frontline is continually fluid. I generally have been saving my ults on defense as a reaction or counter to the attacking team's ults, but maybe that philosophy is wrong?
As a console player, I can totally confirm that it's more of an issue there. The turrets even deal less damage because the auto-aim for consoles is terrible. I've used Sym/Torb with a 6-stack in CTF to win almost every single game we've played because the console players just can't adapt.
The turrets are essentially weapons that automatically aim themselves to a target with no potential to miss, hence "auto-aim." There is a small delay where the turrets have to align with the target.
:) At 1:20 "and patiently poke away". Thorbjon turret has a forty meters range and it needs just very few hits to kill any of the squishy heroes, Pharah included. Firstly, a good healer it's needed, and Thorbjon has to be taken out altogether, otherwise he'll be repairing it or building another turret right away. Just like taking out an annoying Pharah, as Stylosa has recently elaborated, there must be an entire team working together in order to annihilate the Thorbjon-Symmetra combo.
TL,DR - Gotta keep an open mind. Best way to do so, is to understand every hero in the game. Know your enemy (no matter who they choose,) and you can predict their every move and dish out the counter-plays accordingly. Keeping an open mind is the only way to allow yourself to properly play Overwatch in my opinion. If you stick to such rigid ideas that you need defense characters on defense modes and offense characters on attack modes. Great King Kaplan himself has said that Sombra is more of a support hero than an offense one, regardless of where they decided to place her. The way I see it, he basically told us that the "face-value" is not the TRUE value. You have to explore every aspect of every character and understand how they match up in any sized battle (solo, with just one other friendly, or a whole team fight, whatever) to the best of your ability. Sun Tsu said in The Art of War “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Part 1: If you know every hero, you know your enemy, and you can predict what they will do before they do it, because that's what you would do if you were them, and you can counter-play accordingly. Part 2: If you only know yourself and not the enemy, for example, if you main Hanzo and only Hanzo but admittedly, you keep hitting those headshots, until suddenly you get taken out by something you "can't do anything about." You never learn from your mistakes and you peak in your success and get stuck in ELO hell. Part 3: If you don't know how to use the hero you're using and you don't know how to use the hero you are opposing, then you are a just a noob currently but, fear not, you just require practice and dedication before becoming a pro.
I gotta stop with these books. You guys just keep sparking something in my brain and sending me off on these tangents that about 3 (max) people will endure.
Phara isn't always the best option, but then agian, what hero is... good vid! keep up the hard work. Tho I don't agree that dying is always worse than making a risk play. Let's just say that it is situational.
especially with the new capture the rooster game mode these guys are tough, but it's funny because I actually used phara to counter them just by thinking of the placement. I could'nt agree more, only issue is that when the team is not supporting you, the phara could be easily taken out by two or more heros
What Freedo trying to tell us: 1.Its all about play and counterplay as freedo said before. The reason why choosing pharah is because pharah has more positioning( in the sky and few blindspot rather than a fixed point or short distance from torb and symmetra). That's why pharah has a huge advantage to counter these two annoying characters. But the thing is dat the player needs some techni to handle pharah of coz or countering them is immposible if the player's aiming is suck. 2.Don't be confined by the meta issue. Well I am not saying we shouldn't choose the meta lineup but sometimes the meta is not suitable for some condition lets say the counter team is choosing the lineup which has more mobility ( tracer genji winston and lucio zen) and your team is still the triple tank with one dps and two healers. The meta is solid but the counterteam can easily breakthrough. So the thing is try to accept what others are playing and to communicate to your team. Keep calm and thinking is the best way to play overwatch because the meta is keep changing and its also one of the best part and the interesting part of ow. Hope this little summary can help u guys and welcome any supplements:)
Well usually my enemies do run a hitscan as well since with symmetra + torb armor they basically become tanks anyway. Really struggling with Torb/Symmetra/Widowmaker/Mercy/Orisa/Junkrat, especially in solo queue because it just feels like they shut down individual plays completely . I can't flank because anyone on their team will beat you in a 1v1 due to the bonus health, can't snipe anyone because of yet again the bonus health and Mercy can just res them either way, so our only option is to rush in together as a group but that's where we just get obliterated by all the frag spam they can output. Honestly it just feels like a catch 22 to me, anyone got any ideas?
I have a video idea. Can you make a video about which maps are good for certain heroes? I know and you know things like Pharah's a god on Eichenwalde and Winston isn't very good on Dorado. You can use Symmetra on Hanamura, but not on Route 66, etc.
I main Pharah, Reaper and Ana so when I see a torb-sym setup I instantly switched to Pharah and destroyed it. I didn't know people were having such trouble against that duo
You will earn a bunch of points at the end of the season depending on your season high rank. Bronze- 100 Silver- 200 Gold- 400 Platinum- 800 Diamond- 1200 Master- 2000 GrandMaster- 3000
OakyFinnish I do every time. it's actually fucking cancer how in every lobby someone picks either of the two or both of them. I leave the game immediately if there is more than one sniper excluding ana
Exactly! I'm a Pharah main and people get mad when the first thing I do is fly around everybody to chip away at their defense. They don't understand that if someone doesn't take it down, they're more than likely going to stay at the first choke and miss the objective. Sure, Winston is an okay counter to symetra, but he's too big of a target, had to be in and center of the choke where he'd get killed, and his shield is pathetic. Also, the healer would have to focus on keeping him alive, hurting your dps or defense and possibly end up losing your tank because he's so easy to kill. And by the time he's back, the turrets may be back up. 😒
only problem I have with symetra is her insane damage from her microwave gun. Also I have been playing a bit of road hog lately and I think his update made him a lot better to play but a lot harder to survive unless u can block or dodge the hook appropriately like say with genji's deflect or reaper's wraith
Either Pharah or long range DPS like Widowmaker will force them into a bad spot. Bastion may have a lot of DPS, but it has to be within 35-55 m. Pharah can play outside of this range to the point where it becomes difficult for Bastion to hit her, especially when she's being pocket healed. Pharah is also a great pick against Symmetra since her splash is good on her turrets and Symmetra can't really do much of anything against her while she is in the air. Same with Junkrat. The only real threats are Ana for Pharah since she has a scope that turns hitscan and can take her out in 3 shots, but a Widowmaker can take her out in just one good headshot. Good Flankers, Soldier, Widowmaker, Hanzo, or even McCree can kill a Bastion. It's all in how you approach the fight.
That is a problem of course, but there are work arounds. If you can position yourself as Sombra where you'd be out of Reinhardt's line of sight and behind him, you can force him to either turn to you so that he doesn't get hacked by you which leaves him open to whatever punishment your team wants to do to him or get hacked and expose himself, the Bastion, and the Mercy. If you're able to do so, Pharah is also a good option as her Concussive Rocket can knock Reinhardt away from Bastion if it lands behind him. It isn't easy, but once you're able to dislodge Rein, Bastion is 100% dead unless he tries to get up and move.
They gave her a new "E" ability, so she's a mini-Reinhardt. Shield generator as a secondary Ult, more beam range and a buff to make placing turrets easier.
It's a shame some people are just picking up "take pharah" from this, so maybe i can help! its all about positioning and chipping away at the VALUE of the builders, once that is gone its easy mode. Heroes that can do this are pharah, widow, genji, tracer, winston, dva but pharah is the best and most reliable :) Hope this helped! -w
very interesting video. enjoyed it.
Thanks!
But you only actually explained the distance counter with Farah as an example. It's pretty easy to see how Hanzo and Widowmaker can operate similarly, but you've been a bit too implicit about how Genji and Tracer would counter turrets. I've seen it said rather that turrets are mainly good for zoning them out.
Whenever I watch videos like this one it fells like suggesting precisely that, and as an old tf2 player Isee it like: using a soldier (aka pharah) to destroy a sentry nest (aka torb and symmetra nest) is good idea but when enginners get smarter with positioning the best ideas are to use a demoman (aka junkrat) because he can simply destroy from out of your field of view ,or an ubercharged heavy (aka nano bossted reinhardt ) taking the damage for the team, and everytime I'm playing with friends this old tactics usualy works. But all that said , keep up the good work in teaching the community tobe more tatical.
I think Junkrat works very well for this, since you can mine jump up to see where turrets are and then spam bombs over walls to kill them without exposing yourself. Then again, I'm heavily biased towards junkrat.
Team walks through chokes, gets rekt by turrets.
Stage 1: acceptance
Stage 2: exit game
Stage 3: uninstall
State 4: Suicide
Stage 5: go to hell and back
RandomUser Name stage 7: hack OW and remove Torb and Symmetra
"Soldier, kill the Pharah!"
"Soldier kill the Pharah thats getting healed by Mercy" ;p
havocgr1976 That's hardly ever the problem for my teams soldier. The problem is he simply can't hit the shots
Sam Watts pharah can easily defeat soldier in 1v1, if your soldier is killing her then she probably sucks. I play a lot of pharah and soldiers are so easy to take down
The only real counter to Pharah is Zen. The discord makes her killable by Ana, McCree, and Soldier, even is she's far away. (I'm a Pharah/Ana main) :p
reasons why we have widowmaker: part 1
But Stylosa already told us how to counter Symmetra. Just kill her. Plain and simple.
Kaoskadosk who?
matthew evans unit lost. a yt channel. his name is stylosa
Kaoskadosk haha he also said dont disrespect symmetra except when you should. love u sty!
Kaoskadosk and he also said dont respect her... except when you should ..
Kaoskadosk lol
We have covered this topic before but as people still feel that Symmetra and Torb feel like a nightmare to face, today we are here to go over it from another angle, success lies in the approach you to take to the engagements! FREEDO explains how to carefully pick apart Sym Torb defensive set ups carefully, to whittle them down. This is the most effective with the ranged assault of Pharah, but can be done with other characters as well, if you understand what type of key positioning you're looking for. This should also help in the new CTF game mode, Let us know what you think and be sure to drop a Like & Subscribe if you enjoyed! -F
Your Overwatch phara is practically impossible on console
i disagree i play console and i and others do great as pharah
Mason Allen Phara is easy on console what are u talking about
Sombra can do this job just as well I think
Do you have an example of pharah positioning to counter this on Eichenwalde?
I have really good aim on symmetra
B S 😂😂
You can technically have good aim, considering she does fire projectiles. Though in most cases, its just luck if you get any hits.
You must be a PC player. PC Symmetras have way better aim than console Symmetras.........................................
When I use mcree I can get one shots
B S I know right? Pro McCree and Hanzo players are a bunch of amateurs at aiming
Does anyone think Sym needs a slight nerf to her weapon? That damage is a bit extreme imo.
I think the range should be reduced back to its previous numbers, because with the current range symm is too powerful if you don't know how to counter her, or if you get into her range
She has lower damage potential than Mercy.
Reduce her ammo for her damage output potential assuming she gets up to full charge 100 ammo is far to high before reload and make the reload reset her weapon charge to say 50% i think this would be a nice balance chance no need to nerf her range or damage just tweak the ammo at the very least that why they have to to more than run forward behind a shield holding down fire and not caring about ammo because they have 100
starhaven321 I agree this would seem fair.
Not at all. Symmetra just punishes bad positioning. Against bad players or unorganized teams, Symmetra can seem like a god, but it is VERY easy to counter her with mobile or ranges heros, like tracer, a good widow, pharah, etc.
So what happened to "don't respect symmetra, just go in"?
I never said that. -F
I coulda sworn that Stylosa once told me that.
But not sure.
It was Stylosa.
That was Stylosa take on the situation
AmokBR I believe that was before her buff.
I had an interesting Mystery Heroes match yesterday. Enemy team managed to roll 4 Torbs on Hollywood offense after capturing the payload point with 4 seconds left. They all of course put their turrets on the payload, and anyone that entered line of sight of it from then onwards died instantly. I did get D.Va, and tried to use my defense matrix, but my team sadly didn't even try to take advantage of it, and we got steamrolled :/
The best part about using Hanzo against Torb turrets is that even if you're in range of the thing, you're a projectile character which means, if you time it right, you can peak and spam arrows until it dies
Usually in my solo queue games torb turrets are always going to be within 40 meters of you as pharah because of line of sight and angles of attack. Torb tends to counter pharah at my level. This video is only really relevant in high level play. It's also hard to hit torb turrets from like 60 meters away.
I think it does make sense to be patient as characters like pharah unless she can kill a turret and then get healed safely or hit it with splash damage from outside LOS. Try to stay out of the line of sight if you have to fight. Get out of its line of sight asap. But mostly you rely on other heroes like junkrat or reinhardt to deal with the turrets.
Really, most of the issue players have with Symmetra isn't so much the turrets, it's her primary. Sure, using Pharah or another hero with range will keep *you* from being overrun by her, but there will always be other heroes who can't deal with an aggressive Sym. The thing is that Sym has a relatively small hitbox and a primary fire that doesn't require aiming and has frankly ridiculous damage. Heroes that should normally destroy squishies (Reaper, Soldier, etc.) have a hard time hitting her if she's constantly running in circles and jumping around, while you only have to be in the corner of her vision to get melted.
Really the only good solution when she's caught in enclosed spaces is Roadhog, if she's alone. If she's got others set up in the room with her, it's damn hear impossible to get anywhere.
SwarzeTrauer I completely agree and tbh idk if it's lag or something but a couple times a day the beam from her primary has clipped the corner of walls. Even when I break line of sight making it impossible to escape unless I have a hero with movement ability like tracer or genji.. honestly they need to fix that and make it so that the beam loses full charge immediately if u switch from one target to another
I think this is pretty much a common/well known tactic among the more experienced Overwatch players. Thing is, as soon as your dealing with a symmetra/torbjorn combo, even that the tactical approach won't help. A well placed turret position will be tough to hit by pharah + tor can build a new one so fast, that he can keep the pressure on pharah. So basically torbjorn can imo actually be a very good pharah counter, whereas hit scans are often to squishy, and are hard to land hits with on a flying Pharah.
So ye, it's aknown tactic, but pharah/tor combo is still a pain and in the lower ranks a guaranteed win on the def side.
Freedo I hit the bell in dorado.(with missles, bullets , lasers) Is it the same as hitting the bell icon with a thumb?
You ... do realize Symmetra has a projected barrier now right? Due to the cooldown, she can throw out shields faster than Pharah can kill them. Combined with the right click, Pharah can't just stay in a spot and spam at the set up.
The weakness of Sym/Torb is that enemies have to funnel through a choke point, which dive comps can avoid entirely.
Thank you for not singing.
Biggest issue I have is that even when clearing the builders' setups, the team is either too slow or we've taken too many losses to push through, and they get the chance to just set up again.
except on hanamura point a where if you try to fly over the choke their entire team focuses you down before you can even touch their turrets
Sym can move very close in (disrupting standard play style, throwing off aim,. the same reason that at middle to lower level Pharah is more effective than at higher levels -- having to tilt your aim or change your horizon beyond a certain natural number of degrees challenges the layplayer) and drift in an unpredictable way that throws off mid to lower level folks which very few people at that level have the ability to predict reliably and/or counter aim against. And again, that is the majority of the game. Her damage ramp plus the way her disconnect works makes it very challenging to for middle to low rank players to deal with her in any consistent way, while her lock on make sit very easy for the same group to play her.
That's the complication. At that level, people play her almost like a flanker, working to get behind groups as they are distracted by frontal force. And if she sneaks up behind your group and you don't have tank health, once that beam connects, you're basically dead.
I hate when people pronounce it FAR-UH
it's Fair-uh
Slaughterrific Pharah herself pronounces it as "FAR-HA" though.
Nah nah.. it's kinda like how English and Australians say chOnce rather than chAnce
Get rekt Slaughter
place nice play fair-ah
Natalie xx Australians say chAnce, I don't know anyone who says it like chOnce
Torbjorn needs a buff/rework for comp
Guild of Souls he just needs his turret to do 600 dps 🙂
or more builders in general
Sahand she doesn't need a nerf you need to learn to play the game
Sahand Symmetra isnt op by any means.
Guild of Souls maybe he should be able to build something else than only his normal turret
I love how everyone in the comments is acting like they're pro and never lost to torb and sym, both of the have the highest win rate in the game on all platforms for a reason(sym first and torb second).
David Mekonnen The reason why they have the highest winrate is because you dont have to aim...
I've never lost to torb.
Rhythm F. I rarely lose as torb ;)
85% Winrate with Sym :D
They have the highest winrate because they're most often played on Point A defense. If Point A is taken, a lot of players will switch to something else, especially on Assault/Escort maps like Numbani.
So if Point A is held successfully then Sym gets 100% of the win, but if it's captured then they switch to a different hero and Sym only gets a fraction of the loss (assuming they even end up losing). That's how Blizzard's winrate stats work.
Love your videos man watch them pretty much daily. What's been working for me against these set ups almost every time is any character that doesn't have a drop off damage. So pretty much everyone that you've listed. I couldn't help but notice as well at 5:06 you said "helpfur" which was hilarious and accidental of course. But I would love to see a video on how to correlate let's say aiming videos and grouping the team up on console. Because a lot of the methods are great for pc, but for console ( primarily aiming, and team coagulation) is rare to work. Discord is a great app and I use it but I have yet to find the right group of people to keep me level and help benefit one another. Thanks again and keep it up!
It's still a big problem with an uncoordinated team, which is almost always the case in solo queue. Without coordination it can be impossible to get through a good defence because either i) Your team keeps poking when the turrets are dead, and miss the opportunity to make a push, ii) your team don't cover you when you're trying to focus the turrets and you get melted, or iii) they don't even give you the chance to take a position, just run in and get blown up over and over.
LocustStar exactly
the way you guys dissect and open new ideas for Overwatch gets me so giddy! I would love to play with you guys, Pharah is my main =]
Sombra : invisibility from turret view , gun knocks off symmetras turrets easily , hack shuts down torbs turret . Translocatior helps when symmetra locks on and also can be use like widows grapple to get to turrets in higher places . Only weakness is squishyness and being shot while hacking , other then that she's almost perfect for a builder counter
Wow early this time. Looks promising I hate Torb and Sym.
Boston Badass Hugh Jass symmetra is bae
Boss Floss Gaming ^
Boston Badass Hugh Jass these are my 2 biggest mains 😂
Except the issue is that when you play Pharah. The sentry just blast you all day and even if you hit it enough they will just build another turrent so it's like you didn't do anything.
Zen Razor exactly!
Ray k I've been in this situation so many times. That I know it doesn't matter destroying turrets doesnt work well because torbs turrets can see you from so far you get shot down by it anyway. And plus its still wouldnt be 6v6 because its already 6v13 those turrets are like having to deal with another person. Getting shot down by a turret and a Soilder 76 everytime you go into the air... Lets just face it this game is not balanced enough to combat certain team compositions. Unless you have a fully funtioning team that communicates and this never happens on console. The other team doesn't have to do anything but watch you fry as you struggle.
Thing is, Freedo is right, *IF* and just *if*, your team is going in and keeping the opponents busy. If the enemy team, and especially their soldier/ana/widow/(lvl2)Torb-turret, are not busy, your Pharah's 200HP are gone asap.
And then you get no value out of Pharah in return, even feeding their ults.
***** Even if you keep shooting them. Eventually one coild kill you or you would have to drop down and pick up more health which is wasting time
Zen Razor yup
videos like this need to be playing in a loop on the main menu of the game
I hate these 2 picks they are so overpowered and people say they are weak
Rabbizz1 torb is not a issue
Angel Bocanegra Torb can be good, but no one seems to see value on his primary gun and idk why.
My Symetra just got one shoted by his weapon, at full health and no he didnt have ulti on!
havocgr1976 his ult doesn't increase the damage of his primary fire
The issue comes with the additional armor that he provides to the team. Combine that with a flank that is guarded by a turret (where a Symmetra generator is at), then their team is practically un-killable.
Thank you. I always felt like I was playing Pharah wrong against triple tanks. I guess I just saw her as a flanker character so when there are no squishes to hit she became less effective I didn't even think to use her as a chip away character and now that's going to change how I use her.
Do you think that using the spacebar is better for aim control with phara? I find myself using left click a lot when I play phara, and it feels less good than hovering with spacebar.
I hate when people ask for likes makes me feel sick
I bet you expected me to say "like if you agree", but no I genuinely hate when people do it.
It is very unpleasant, yes :c
^ what can one do 🤷 ¯\_(ツ)_/''
Slow moving ball can be chipped away at easily by Symm/Tjorb, but a faster more agile group, doesn't get bogged down so easily. Interesting concept, will definitely be incorporating it into my game. Thanks :)
I need help. I'm stuck in elo hell and I can't get out. my sr is 1977 right now. I understand overwatch is a team game and requires teamwork to win, but how can I with with a team that didn't want to coordinate with me? How do I deal with people who never switch and always trickle in? Overwatch is not a game where you can carry your team by yourself and I'm a support main. What do I do?
Learn Zarya dude.
a good Hog and Zarya can help carry even a bad team in the lower ranks.
PC Xbox or PS4
ask for help by telling gamertag and your main
Emanuel Rousseau play soldier and solo carry
So is the only time a poke at the choke type playstyle can be used/encouraged?
How would you deal with it on hanamura point b? Pharah's range does not count for much when the entire point is indoors
Maybe they should nerf Torb's Turrets range so more people can play Pharah to counter, because honestly I still get shot by the turret in the skies :(
You're doing something wrong then. The turret will prioritize the nearest possible target. If it's firing at you then you're either much closer than a Phara needs to be or you're going in alone. Both avoidable mistakes.
...means, don't go after the turret, if your team isn't pushing.
If you float in the far distance with Pharah, and you get shot by the turret: don't poke - and back off.
Sadly that happens a lot on soloQ, because your own team isn't pushing.
The biggest thing here is making sure you have competent teammates complementing your counter. I'm a Pharah main and when I'm on turret duty so many times it gives away my location and my teammates are unable to get picks while the enemies backs are turned dealing with me. When I die all the work is wiped if they can just rebuild their setup.
Another option other than Pharah is Junkrat. While pharah can deal with the defenses effectively from a safe range, with the right angles, junkrat can deal with it closer up by exploiting safe zones and making use of his primary fire's mechanics. He can lob over obstacles, he can bounce off walls. And his ultimate makes a great scouting tool against the builders! It can locate where they're building next, it can hunt down that pesky shield generator, and if you time it effectively, you can take out the builders themselves before they're able to recover from their losses.
How does Zen fair against the Sym/Torb set up? He has no damage fall off nor does his projectile arc. Plus his alt fire might be effective against immobile turrets. Just throwing that out there, tell me if I'm wrong.
"Play pharah" is this entire video in a nutshell. I believe I'm noticing a trend with any video freedo is in.
Junkrat is really good against Torb turrets because he doesn't even need to be in line of sight of the turret to kill it.
Easily the best Overwatch channel on TH-cam. Good shit man
CTF is a lot more fun once you know how to smash a symm web and a torb turret. Pharah and junkrat are both good for it, but even Lucio or another Symmetra can be effective at breaking down turrets at long range or from behind cover, and Winston is still a good anti Symmetra pick I see a lot. Using cover well and knowing your avenues of attack are vital.
Very helpful insight, thank you!
As someone who plays both Symmetra and Torbjorn often this advice is only effective against static builders who build in predetermined spots, against active builders it will fall apart as they tend to build in ways to place attackers at risk, or commonly just waste an attacker's time. Advice to Pharas or any other character ie Widow considering these tactics, Soldier may not reach you and be ignorant of your attacks, but Torb will always be aware and he can hit you, peeking in a predictable manner and standing still at even long range will be the death of you, DO NOT HIDE BELOW LEDGES.
These are the Your Overwatch videos I've been missing
very good content as usual from you guys...i really enjoy these videos..i myself always pick pharah wen playing against mei sym and torb and even bastion and there is very little enemies can do
Just use winston or your strat ATTACK BASION
Excellent bit at the end, I agree that people get too meta-minded and forget to look for the planned counters and consider that, maybe, just MAEBE, those intended counters might indeed be effective.
Can someone tellme why sombra's ult can't affect and disable an area of symmetra's turrets when she jumps in the center?
Can we.. or I get some advice on CTF I loose almost all my games and can't figure out a good strategy on my own.. rush in, flag gets taken.. split up, out numbered.. flank, get destroyed.. tank it up, get flag taken.. honestly I don't know if me and my friends suck or we just don't have a proper strat..
But, how do you counter Symmetra Torb when the enemy has a hit scan such as widow or mcree?
Yes this was excellent! Thanks guys!
Liked, subbed, and now notified cause why not 😁
Torbjörns Turret reaches Pharah wherever she is though. I tried this several times but no matter how far away I am if I am in sight of the turret it can shoot me. And it is impossible with Pharah to stay out of the line of sight and deal damage at the same time.
I do get that many plat and diamond players are going up against Symmetra? But is Symmetra "good" enough to play in like the big leagues or on Master rank level?
Great video! Found it awesomely helpful.
The dive comp is definitely back. I've tried it so many times and it works every time
"Don't let the meta rule dictates what you can pick!"
As a Junkrat player. I agree totally with this quote. I can be pretty decent with Junkrat. Way more that I am with Phara or Reaper, and sometimes people flame me by picking him. And then I trade so no one trows the game like they used to do. And I cannot explore my full potencial.
Video/lesson request: When to initiate (either ult or non-ult) on defense on Payload maps. For the Hybrid Payload maps, specifically the streets phase. More broadly, the video could just be about how to pace and place one's team while defending on Payload. My team is good at grouping for KOTH and Assault, but we seem to run into pacing and grouping issues with Payload. My guess is because the frontline is continually fluid. I generally have been saving my ults on defense as a reaction or counter to the attacking team's ults, but maybe that philosophy is wrong?
people really struggle to counter torb? I guess it could be hard sometimes.
A lot of people play on consoles, so auto aim attacks are a lot more powerful.
As a console player, I can totally confirm that it's more of an issue there. The turrets even deal less damage because the auto-aim for consoles is terrible. I've used Sym/Torb with a 6-stack in CTF to win almost every single game we've played because the console players just can't adapt.
Justin ™ on console it's no longer Auto aim it has to turn around
The turrets are essentially weapons that automatically aim themselves to a target with no potential to miss, hence "auto-aim." There is a small delay where the turrets have to align with the target.
Torbjorn is a joke on console. He's not bad, but he's not very good either. The best thing he has going for him is that rivet gun.
Just wondering, what's your guys' opinion on clustering Symmetra turrets vs spreading them out?
so... what about turret meta? Bastion, sym, torb, rein (or orisa), soldier, mercy?
:) At 1:20 "and patiently poke away". Thorbjon turret has a forty meters range and it needs just very few hits to kill any of the squishy heroes, Pharah included. Firstly, a good healer it's needed, and Thorbjon has to be taken out altogether, otherwise he'll be repairing it or building another turret right away. Just like taking out an annoying Pharah, as Stylosa has recently elaborated, there must be an entire team working together in order to annihilate the Thorbjon-Symmetra combo.
His name is Torbjörn, not Thorbjorn.
TL,DR - Gotta keep an open mind. Best way to do so, is to understand every hero in the game. Know your enemy (no matter who they choose,) and you can predict their every move and dish out the counter-plays accordingly.
Keeping an open mind is the only way to allow yourself to properly play Overwatch in my opinion. If you stick to such rigid ideas that you need defense characters on defense modes and offense characters on attack modes. Great King Kaplan himself has said that Sombra is more of a support hero than an offense one, regardless of where they decided to place her. The way I see it, he basically told us that the "face-value" is not the TRUE value. You have to explore every aspect of every character and understand how they match up in any sized battle (solo, with just one other friendly, or a whole team fight, whatever) to the best of your ability. Sun Tsu said in The Art of War “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” Part 1: If you know every hero, you know your enemy, and you can predict what they will do before they do it, because that's what you would do if you were them, and you can counter-play accordingly. Part 2: If you only know yourself and not the enemy, for example, if you main Hanzo and only Hanzo but admittedly, you keep hitting those headshots, until suddenly you get taken out by something you "can't do anything about." You never learn from your mistakes and you peak in your success and get stuck in ELO hell. Part 3: If you don't know how to use the hero you're using and you don't know how to use the hero you are opposing, then you are a just a noob currently but, fear not, you just require practice and dedication before becoming a pro.
I gotta stop with these books. You guys just keep sparking something in my brain and sending me off on these tangents that about 3 (max) people will endure.
"The fortitude of the sym defense is going to crumble at the seams." - Freedo loves mixing metaphors in painful ways.
Phara isn't always the best option, but then agian, what hero is...
good vid! keep up the hard work. Tho I don't agree that dying is always worse than making a risk play. Let's just say that it is situational.
I have a friend who mains mercy and is stuck in plat even though i know they can get to mid-high diamond. Any tips on playing around a mercy?
especially with the new capture the rooster game mode these guys are tough, but it's funny because I actually used phara to counter them just by thinking of the placement. I could'nt agree more, only issue is that when the team is not supporting you, the phara could be easily taken out by two or more heros
*what about bastion?*
Which Support character would you reccomend to deal with these guys?
What Freedo trying to tell us:
1.Its all about play and counterplay as freedo said before. The reason why choosing pharah is because pharah has more positioning( in the sky and few blindspot rather than a fixed point or short distance from torb and symmetra). That's why pharah has a huge advantage to counter these two annoying characters. But the thing is dat the player needs some techni to handle pharah of coz or countering them is immposible if the player's aiming is suck.
2.Don't be confined by the meta issue. Well I am not saying we shouldn't choose the meta lineup but sometimes the meta is not suitable for some condition lets say the counter team is choosing the lineup which has more mobility ( tracer genji winston and lucio zen) and your team is still the triple tank with one dps and two healers. The meta is solid but the counterteam can easily breakthrough. So the thing is try to accept what others are playing and to communicate to your team. Keep calm and thinking is the best way to play overwatch because the meta is keep changing and its also one of the best part and the interesting part of ow.
Hope this little summary can help u guys and welcome any supplements:)
In the lower ranks pharah is weak to torn because we have worse aim and we usually are getting shot by the turrets
Shadowburn was a somewhat well know solider main in tf2 so it's not surprising he plays Pharah
Well usually my enemies do run a hitscan as well since with symmetra + torb armor they basically become tanks anyway. Really struggling with Torb/Symmetra/Widowmaker/Mercy/Orisa/Junkrat, especially in solo queue because it just feels like they shut down individual plays completely . I can't flank because anyone on their team will beat you in a 1v1 due to the bonus health, can't snipe anyone because of yet again the bonus health and Mercy can just res them either way, so our only option is to rush in together as a group but that's where we just get obliterated by all the frag spam they can output. Honestly it just feels like a catch 22 to me, anyone got any ideas?
Looks like its a good time to main Torb & Symmetra
you will get a lot of flak, but also a good time to main pharah as well without the flak
I have a video idea. Can you make a video about which maps are good for certain heroes? I know and you know things like Pharah's a god on Eichenwalde and Winston isn't very good on Dorado. You can use Symmetra on Hanamura, but not on Route 66, etc.
What should I do if I'm playing tank or support?
I main Pharah, Reaper and Ana so when I see a torb-sym setup I instantly switched to Pharah and destroyed it. I didn't know people were having such trouble against that duo
Do competitive points rollover at the end of a season?
You will earn a bunch of points at the end of the season depending on your season high rank.
Bronze- 100
Silver- 200
Gold- 400
Platinum- 800
Diamond- 1200
Master- 2000
GrandMaster- 3000
p4nic What about the points you already earned. Do they rollover into the next season?
Oh yeah you keep them, the only way to lose comp points is if you use them to buy something, but you can't have more than 6000 comp points at once.
The issue with this is that I am the only one who ever picks healer (or tank) on my time. As a result, I have no leeway to change to Pharah.
Could you possibly make a video on countering pharah effectively? Seems like a lot of teams lately struggle to negate her
If you can tell me how to beat Torb Sym in Hanamura point A, that would be great, thanks.
One topic I would really like is "Healer Positioning". I think I get it sometimes, but I'm pretty sure my positioning as Ana is WAY off
Am I the only one that immediately checks someone's career profile when I see a hanzo or widow pick?
OakyFinnish I do every time. it's actually fucking cancer how in every lobby someone picks either of the two or both of them. I leave the game immediately if there is more than one sniper excluding ana
New game, take a shot every time Freedo says "value".
Exactly! I'm a Pharah main and people get mad when the first thing I do is fly around everybody to chip away at their defense. They don't understand that if someone doesn't take it down, they're more than likely going to stay at the first choke and miss the objective. Sure, Winston is an okay counter to symetra, but he's too big of a target, had to be in and center of the choke where he'd get killed, and his shield is pathetic. Also, the healer would have to focus on keeping him alive, hurting your dps or defense and possibly end up losing your tank because he's so easy to kill. And by the time he's back, the turrets may be back up. 😒
I find your videos very helpful
As a Pharah main this video pleases me
Keegan Lubbe agreed. Finally being appreciated
Keegan Lubbe i hate pharas
Whem u die to her it does not feel justice
Thank god this Is here, Capture the rooster almost always has one of the two
only problem I have with symetra is her insane damage from her microwave gun. Also I have been playing a bit of road hog lately and I think his update made him a lot better to play but a lot harder to survive unless u can block or dodge the hook appropriately like say with genji's deflect or reaper's wraith
I don't know if a lot of people know that because a lot of people aren't playing her, but i can say that Orisa is veeeery good against symm/torb
WOW three videos in a row talking about pharah damn
HOW you counter sym and torb in anubis ?
how do i counter this team comp:
junkrat
symm
bastion
rein
ana
mercy
Git gud
Either Pharah or long range DPS like Widowmaker will force them into a bad spot. Bastion may have a lot of DPS, but it has to be within 35-55 m. Pharah can play outside of this range to the point where it becomes difficult for Bastion to hit her, especially when she's being pocket healed. Pharah is also a great pick against Symmetra since her splash is good on her turrets and Symmetra can't really do much of anything against her while she is in the air. Same with Junkrat. The only real threats are Ana for Pharah since she has a scope that turns hitscan and can take her out in 3 shots, but a Widowmaker can take her out in just one good headshot.
Good Flankers, Soldier, Widowmaker, Hanzo, or even McCree can kill a Bastion. It's all in how you approach the fight.
What Alex said, but also, if you have ana, you can put that bastion to sleep
Alex Night but what do i do if rein is protecting bastion?
That is a problem of course, but there are work arounds. If you can position yourself as Sombra where you'd be out of Reinhardt's line of sight and behind him, you can force him to either turn to you so that he doesn't get hacked by you which leaves him open to whatever punishment your team wants to do to him or get hacked and expose himself, the Bastion, and the Mercy.
If you're able to do so, Pharah is also a good option as her Concussive Rocket can knock Reinhardt away from Bastion if it lands behind him. It isn't easy, but once you're able to dislodge Rein, Bastion is 100% dead unless he tries to get up and move.
"It's almost always better to try to have the maximum impact while alive than trying a risky play" -Freedo
I didn't have overwatch before the symmetra rework so I wouldn't know. What is different about her?
Jamaal B Her range & damage is insane
They gave her a new "E" ability, so she's a mini-Reinhardt. Shield generator as a secondary Ult, more beam range and a buff to make placing turrets easier.
+Pure Stupidity okey dokey
I felt unsatisfied at the end, I was waiting for pharah to use her ult.
Honestly a lot of the maps that Sym Torb is strong on this strategy doesn't really apply.
the most fantastic farah kill is to throw a symmetra shield at her during her ultimate so that her own splash kills her. :)