Is My 12v17 Detroit Junk With A Cracked Block
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ค. 2021
- My 12v71 Detroit has a crack in the block. Is it fatal, or not?
Making Plans For My 12v71 Detroit Diesel
• Making Plans For My 12...
I Buy A 12v71 Detroit Diesel
• I Buy A 12v71 Detroit ...
Or just do what my old boss did in with his fleet of 6-71's grind out the crack weld it up to repair it run it till she blows up again and do it all over again. We had a 318 that about every 250K would love to send parts of itself out of the exhaust. We just would tear it down make sure the crank was fine replace the blown parts and put it back into service. Hell it was still running as of 2 years ago and I last ran that engine almost 25 years ago. He finally retired the 62 Emeryville I drove for him 10 years ago when the last driver that could shift the triple sticks it had lost his CDL.
Marine tex works great for repairing cracks too. I just repaired a 4-53 bellhousing crack using marine tex because the last guy sent a bolt that was too long down a blind hole on the bell causing it to crack and leak oil..
Matt got a workout turning that engine over, I could feel the struggle
United Welding Toronto Ont. Canada
They specialize in rebuiding cracked blocks & heads. Quality work, fair pricing, I have had them repair heads, they truly ate great.
There are no water jackets on EATHER side of that motor below the pistons ,,,all air box,,,I rebuilt 2 of those that threw a rod THROGH the side of both engines,,,I put aluminum plates on the out side drilled strait THROGH the block cut the screws off on the inside so the crank and rods would not hit ,,,,that whole side on both sides is just the oil return back to the pan ,,,those trucks were were both on the road for 4 MORE years no problems
Brian ,,,,You don't need more than one comma. Sorry, had to say it~
@@Flies2FLL Da
Maybe it was not repaired correctly normally I drill holes at the start of a crack and end of the crack then weld it up. Once used two metal plates to repair the side of a block(rod went thru it). The repair worked and the dairy farm drove it until frame broke.
Hope not broken, watching this motor being worked on is fun to watch, do it to it and have a good one till the next time.
Basically cosmetic old gurl pitched a rod in her earlier life nothing to be scared of in my opinion
I have repaired lots of these through the years and it is only open space no pressure
I have a few trawlers on the water that I repaired holes in each side and they ran perfect afterwards
When I was an apprentice mechanic in the operating engineers at the training area we had a Terex scraper that had two of them screaming jimmies one in the normal engine spot one in the back on the can . It was a push pull.
Outstanding steve and matt... a fan in oregon...
I retired as a CAT field tech . Most CAT dealers can lace a block that’s cracked. Had many castings laced
The oil pump was working well. You are probably right, that is the result of the failure that resulted in the rebuild.
Most likely like you said that is why it was rebuilt it might even be welded on the back, but I think it just stressed it there and the crack is shallow not all the way through the block.
If it's cast iron you can use braze it with brass. I think at one point a bent connecting rod hit it but it wasn't bent enough to break the wall
I wouldnt rebuild that, pistons/rings look mint. Pull the sump, check that crack (not for any reason, its old damage from the inside out and its not weeping oil), check the bearings (roll in new ones if needed), sort out and mount all your drives, sort out bellhousing-flywheel/clutch and a transmission, work out if your going to turbo it, upsize injectors, and send it. While youre doing all that, intercool it, leave the (some/all) accesory drives on the front so you can have cab clearance at the rear.
I dont see how youre saving anything by putting a kit though it if its not needed. An inframe in 10,000+ miles might never come.
Turbo versions use different pistons.
Vin Diesel’s Brother, Vin Kerosene.
You can always buy one of those stitching kits and stitch that crack back together from the outside if you don't trust it. It needs to be done with the pan off so you can get the metal shavings cleaned out though. It's a very simple and strong process and the repair is fairly permanent. If it ever leaks, you just drill and tap the leak site and put another stitch in it.
Turn your welder around ,,,,weld with the ground ,ground with the positive ,,,,it s like cold welding when you are done you can put your hand on the weld it will not recrack while welding I saved a lot of truck rearends casings ,and never drained the oil when I was a kid saved a lot of hemmi engines too
Just was about to comment the same thing lmao instead of pulling the metal the weld it pushes it cast behaves similar to aluminium so it should be treated as such.
I’d try a Lock N Stitch system first. Used their systems in cast MANY times at our shop and the trucks are still on the road today.
I had a friend had an old cat eng in a 980 loader it started to leak water through a crack on side of block. He JB welded it. Ran it 8 more years.
A grinder, some preheat and some nickel rod fix that right up, what's good it on a flat spot.
Damn, that sucks. Hope it isn't too bad.
I think that is a sump off inspection, Detroit were great with their numbering, tells you every thing you need to know.
Blower tech has advanced a long way from when that engine was built. I wonder if a couple more modern 6v71 blowers for cars would fit in place of where the original blowers are?
Lock N Stitch makes a cool system that can fix cracks in cast iron blocks.
Drill holes ln both ends grind down and Mig it, Or use JB Weld,
I've used a low tempweldrod to repair crack from freezing.
Steve, i am a recent subscriber.
I am enjoying your Trucking channel, thanks for taking us along for the ride.i was wondering though if your 12V-71 Engine, is it a pair of 6V-71 Blocks bolted together, or is it the solid cast 1 piece 12V Block??
The easiest way to repair a crack in cast iron is metal stitching using a system like lock-n-stitch. I have used them many times to repair cracked cast iron blocks.
I immediately typed the exact same comment. Then scrolled down and saw yours. 😂 Lock N Stitch has fixed a LOT of blocks. They work very well. Seen them used in situations where I thought it would never hold... and the trucks are still running perfectly today. So yeah... I’d recommend Lock N Stitch systems any day(for appropriate situations).
@@TsunauticusIV I originally learned about metal stitching when I worked for the railroad, it is almost a lost art and the only 2 people doing it at the railroad are in their sixties and they learned from old guys themselves in their early days.
@@mikeshultz1007 True. I learned the same way. Been done for a long time and if done properly... will last for as long as you need it to last. Proper stitching locks everything together perfectly. Then the peening finishes it off... No leaks. No problems.
I have a question.
Can lock-n-stitch be used on light applications, like for a light truck? I've got a 1992 Ford Ranger with a cast-iron block and head, and any kind of repair knowledge would be useful to me, in case I ever found a crack in the head or block.
@@isaiahwelch8066 lmfao nobody cares about a Ford Ranger
Some truly amazing things have been done with JB Weld. They claim it was used to fix a cracked block in a Caterpillar bulldozer. Worth looking into, maybe?
Back when I was pulling reached we hade a 318 lose a rod it went out both sides of the block. It did no other damage so we went to the Hardware store got 2 cast iron fry pans. With a
Dy Grindr he cut out of the bottom of the pan piece that would fit in the holes there we did in place them with the made in Canada maple leaf facing out so you could se it out side the block right beside the Detroit Diesel emblem it looked funny. The motor ran for years like that. The motor never gave up but the truck did. Wats a little crack as long as it is not in the water jacket. Evens that can be fixed.
This is what I'm hoping.
To be honest with you, that crack is pretty low on the block. Probably been there for years without causing any trouble. I would definitely check it out, but I wouldn't panic over that. All these guys that are saying it's junk or you got screwed never never bought, seen, touched, worked on or even heard one of these run. This isn't like a 350 Chevy block where you throw it away because it's cracked. You fix it, that is, if it needs fixing.
Truck life is alot different than offroad or stationary.
Absolutely. Much different.
Yes there are many people I know that could fix that.
Over here in California the state punches holes in the block to retire it.. well we patch the holes, do our standard out of frame rebuild and boom good to go. Depending on where they punch the hole i can make a cover and a gasket, drill tap the block and bolt the cover in place. We’ve saved probably 100 or more detroits that way alone.
It mite "Allegedly " come out of a Terex TS-24 V12 71 front engine can't recall the rear engine, but I digress 👍
They probably welded it on the inside. Thats my guess. When they did the initial rebuild .
In the Coast Guard they would tell us, "they're designed to blow down and out..."
u.p.t. makes a rod no preheat just weld like 7018 u r good to go
My dad had a small truck/car or what we could get in the door shop in Billings, Montana back in earlie 70's. Of course being a kid and a gear head I wanted to help. Just to learn and hang with my pop's. Anyway, there was a customer that had this Long noise 68' KW conventanal that we would do the service on once a week. That was the time that it would take him to go down to L.A. over to Phoenix, then back to Billings, every week. I had been around the GMC series of diesels most of my young life. If he wasn't working on them he would drive. You learned back then to drive one you had to slam your hand in the door before you started driveing it, first thing. Anyway I digress, Well this long noise KW had a 12/71 twin turbo, with an alison 4 speed transmission , and a 4 speed browing, that was 1 under, direct, and a double overdrive with 411 gears. But the owner/opperator said that between L.A. and Phoenix, in the dark of the night the old girl would quit right down at about 110 mph. in the high hole. I was a kid and would ask my pop if it was true and he said there was no doubts. I knew it was a horse, because at 15 they would let me take it in and out of the shop. It was a shit job, but I loved it and these people that that were truckers. Oil filters, 2 lubrafiners, make sure you washed and wiped them out, blow out twin air filters, fix any leaks, check the rears, make sure all fluids were topped off. So if this V12 is salvagable it should be a horse for you. Take and plug the water cooling system up and put about 50 psi to and and a little soapy water, you'll know, and listen for any air hissing. There is higher tech ways but.....This should tell you. Good luck from one gearhead to another. If you do have to weld it like it's been suggested in the comments, the only suggestion would be to pre-heat and stick weld it, 7018, make sure you have an air needler to stress relieve it between welds.
Only a fool would weld cast with7018
@@steveward8652 I'm sure you could use a cast rod or 60 series. I've welded up a lot of cast with 7018 with good results, just like the 70's series of rod. The real test is when you do that first weld, let it cool and see if it's fractured, or pulled on the cast. What preheat method you use, oven, torch how you cool it down. The condition/quality of the cast, how dirty , quality of steel and iron in the cast. Now they might heli arc and watch the mix of gases, hell they have mig wire that can do it. I'm sure they will get it tore apart, see what's going on. It might be just a boat anchor. So you know how opions are, right. Just mine.
Stick a borescope through the hole and see if it has been welded. No point in just guessing! You can get one at harbor freight for like 60 bucks.
yes that is a crack from a broken rod, but it is down were it should not be a problem. if you look at the ring spacing you can tell it has a different piston in that hole. yes it can be fixed properly after all it is only money..... or i am sure if you look around you can find a bare block after all as you say you have all of the parts.
O and FYI it has the none turbo liners in it.
all of the oil wet on the cylinders tells me it is tired.
no water jacket could be brassed or welded from inside if not already. inspect and run.
Might be ok the way it is, at least the last guy didn't Bondo it. Seen that happen!
Thats a 12v71 we had terex end dumps with that engine back in the 70's. They were a good engine. Then we had Pete's with the 8v92's in them. They ran well but if tge driver missed a gear coming up hill to dump they sometimes would float a valve.
They had a blower and twin turbos.
As long as the sleeves are good, does it even really matter if it's got a small crack in it? I know obviously you wouldn't want a huge crack in it but I don't think there is any real pressure behind that is there?
The crack is not a problem as long as the crack does not go into the water jacket. Don't try welding the block, what you need to do is stick the block easy fix. Look up sticking cast iron on google you will be surprised.
It's Lock'n Stitch, I believe.
They called these engines screaming Jimmy you run them at the maximum rpm they did not like to be lug
Twin turbos would be SWEET!
dang that was pure bad luck finding that cracked block 😥i do hope you can fix it some how?
I'm guessing it came out of front end loader...a big one
id guess the place in baltimore was johnson & towers.been there a few times.it was a 2 stroke detroit lovers candystore.you name it,they had it.but this was in the early 90s.
I know a guy that bought a ton of stuff from them. He out a little southwest near a place called Martinsburg West Virginia. Not sure if he is still doing work for the public or selling parts. He had a nice sized shop and also about 40 tractor trailer loads of parts in his yard. Pretty much any part you could want. Aftermarket, new old stock, and salvaged. If you’re interested let me know and I can try to track his info down and post it here for,you.
Also I think J & T is still open. Think they just had a change of ownership. Not 100% sure. I do know the guy in Martinsburg helped a LOT of travelers on the I81 corridor that needed help. Why he kept so much in stock. He used to get a TON of business and never even advertised. Saw him in his mobile mechanics truck at all the truck stops on a regular along 81
Harder than it sounds I know
Won’t know till you pull the pan, looks like an old rod hit but it’s not leaking oil so don’t fix it if it ain’t broke
froze
I think the first step is to build one badass engine stand to be able to b able
To be able to tear it down and build it up and possibly run it???
I'd weld that block back together using TIG welding
I could be wrong, but I think those are "N" liners - big port :-)
Drill it and stitch pin it ...
looked like an N to me.
Have you thought of a switchblade turbo on that motor
O good grief, I thought this a critique of Donald. 😂
You will need to strip the engine down.Check for other cracks.Might be able to TIG weld the crack.Crack is probably the water jacket froze and split.
I have a feeling that crack was addressed in its last rebuild. it makes no sense to me how it could be cracked without throwing a rod, possibly why it was rebuilt in 1978.
@@fsctruckshop6537 The crack does look low enough to avoid the water jacket.Easy way to check is to fill the cooling system with water.Or pull the pan and check inside for the crack
No water that low in a Detroit. There is very little water in the block as the block is mostly cooled by the air being forced in by the blower through the ports he uncovered. The water mainly flows through the heads with some in the block going to the oil cooler. The fuel also provides cooling as over 70% of it returns to the tank. Drive a truck with a Detroit in the winter and ice and snow melt off the fuel tank.
@@tiredoldmechanic1791 Thanks for the reply.I spent 40 years in heavy truck repair.Also Tired.I looked at the block design of the V Detroits.You are correct.Steves engine probably kicked a rod out.His block is probably OK.I did work on the 12V's in Freightliners in the late 70's early 80's.Noisey beast.
Just grind it out and weld it up.
I'v welded several cracked blocks over the years.
Wouldn't he be removing air boxes from cylinders 5 and 6? Typically, the output shaft is considered the back of the engine. Staring at the front, the left bank is from front to back cylinders 1-6, and the right bank is cylinders 7-12.
Maybe I'm wrong about diesels?
-If that was an impact crack then why wouldn't they dress it? Welding cast iron is very difficult, but there are ways to deal with this via pins. In the end, if it isn't leaking coolant or oil, then this crack really isn't an issue.
It probably came out of a Terex Buggy(Earth Mover)
Someone managed to break a Detroit? That's kind of surprising.
Lol right. Havent seen the video but I m guessing its fixable. We get them through our shop all the time.
Not really surprising at all. They crack the blocks all the time. You see this on a regular offshore. Changed one with two holes in the block last time I was out. She still ran though. Went from an 8v92 to a 6v92🤣
U might wanna look up Woodward governors
You should look into "lock and stitch" cold welding to repair that block.
If it is a crack it is not a problem at all, stitch it or weld it, stitching is best, i have a 12v71 in a 74 pete cabover in the uk, will you run that engine in your truck?
It's for another truck I yet haven't decided on.
Probably had water in the block and it froze. That sucks. Never worked on a 12V71. Pleanty of 8V82 and 6V82TA.
No big deal,don't worry about it...it's only a toy anyway.
There is a company called lock-n-stitch.com that makes repair kit to repair cracks like this. Great product. Video available in TH-cam,
Looks like there was water in it and it froze and broke the block.
There is no,,no water in any of the 53, 71,or 92 series Detroit's that is just a
Wall on both sides of the engine 1/2 to 3/4inch thick cast only there to return the oil back to the oil pan then above that is the air box ,,,if u take the covers off both sides you will see the pistons and the sleeves ,,,that is the only way that motor will run is with the blower turning to force the air into those holes ,,,AND HELP COOL THE ENGINE BECAUSE THERE ARE NO INTAKE valves. Only 4 exhaust valves per cylinder ,,,move up again and that is where the water jackets are for the motor ,,,,the blower actually helps cool the engine ,,,, pretty cool how long they run like that lol
Poor guy that was spinning that big ass motor his balls are probably touching the ground
FSC Truck Stop.... Looking at the Serial Number, beginning with 034... tells me that it possibly came of the assembly line between mid 1973 and mid 1974. The Model Number (7123 - 7030) is read as.. 7=Series71, 12=12cyl, 3=FF or, Fan to Flywheel / INDUSTRIAL. The 7030 reads - 7= RT hand Rotation (as viewed from the FRONT), Oil cooler on rt side & Starter on left (Both, as viewed from the Rear), "0"= N (Naturally Aspirated / Non-Turbo) with 4 Valve heads, 30= Specific Model Number - and That info should be on the Right Rocker Cover (as viewed from the Rear) on the Engine Specific ID plate - which appears to have been removed at some point... Not good.
It is a BLUE oblong plate (unless someone painted over it) that is attached using a "frame" around it on 3 sides, and would have ALL the specific details for that particular engine at the time of manufacture. This is the First video I've found from you, and I "liked & Subscribed". I don't know what your overall future plans are for this engine.... but, "IF" your planning on rebuilding it as a turbocharged unit... you "might" consider another block.
Welding that crack with reverse polarity (similar to a cold weld) would be beneficial and I'm sure it would hold up just fine if your going to keep it in N/A form, keep the engine speed down below 2150, and N60 injectors or smaller. IF.. your wanting to turbocharge it... it would probably be wise to either start with an Undamaged block, because the added stress on the lower end could be substantial enough to multiply the damage that is already there... or just resell the one you currently have, and go find a factory original single or twin turbo engine with all the correct factory innards.
I don't know what your looking for in power output, but there are nearly unlimited possibilities. The most I've pulled out of a 12-71 is 2500hp at 4000+ rpm. Hope this helps you, somewhat at least. Good luck and have fun with whatever you do with the 12.
I am considering a turbo build. However I know that complicates things, so I may stick NA. Right now I'm finishing the teardown, then taking the block to the machine shop to look over for other damage and possible repair of the known crack. Ultimately I plan on putting this in a truck. I am hoping to find the truck with a 6v, 8v, or even another 12v for the right mounts, plumbing etc.
Put sealer over the crack and drive it
Common Matt get your balls out of your purse and spin that motor! 😂
JB WELLED IT!!!🤣
Loc-n-stitch is the fix. It looks to be between the main bearings webbing and below the air box. Could be a simple fix.
If that's the water jacket, weld her up and send it. Fixed an old 4cyl boat motor that way. Cooling system pressures are very low on Detroit Diesels too.
Otherwise lock and stitch will solve that problem right away.
Should the sleeve be moving on the 2nd piston?
Thought I saw some slight movement too but I went back and watched several times and could not catch it again. I think what we saw was the camera jittering a bit?
If it was me, rather than spending all that money on twin turbos, and changing pistons etc, I'd change the gear to increase the speed of the blower and run N 70 injectors. Just keep the rpm's up so you don't burn a hole in the pistons.
I just might. Now I am just looking over my options while researching.
@@fsctruckshop6537 I just watched the video on pulling the pistons. Make sure the wrist pin retainers are seated properly when you install them. I ground an old wrist pin convex to seat them with. You can buy the tool for about 30 bucks. I use a suction cup with a hole drilled in the center, with a plastic vacuum tube through the suction cup connected to a vacuum gauge. Then pull a vacuum to make sure they are seated tightly.
One more thing. Make sure the liners slide in with a small amount of drag, but not too much. If they fit too tight, the engine won't crank over when it's hot. If it fits tightly when installing, swap it with another liner and try that. I clean the bores with a flex hone before I slide the liners in. Just don't hone too much... enough to clean it and that's all.
I use a few dabs of 3M weatherstrip adhesive on the corners of the quad ring on the deck of the block, That will hold it from slipping out of the groove. I didn't watch you take the heads off, so I'm not sure if there were any studs, but if you can find 4 head bolts, cut the heads off and cut slits for a screwdriver and use those to guide the head on when you install them. Once the head is on, you can use a screwdriver to remove the studs and install the head bolts.
I have a good 12V-71 block if you need one.
Daaaamn man. They going to reimburse you for that block? Anyway... ya parts but dang. Have to magnaflux it to see how bad it is inside and out.
Go mack superliner twin stick
Will this make a truck have blow bye
there is no compression inside the block so may not.
This is a modern version vintage method: th-cam.com/video/Pq0wfU4ZaKk/w-d-xo.html Old mechanics used a copper threaded bolts but repair process is the same.
Lock-N-Stitch .... done and done
JB weld it, Lol.
wow they did not said any thing too you
i remember seeing one with a cracked cylinder wall well i asked the guy why there was a crack in the cylinder well he said it ran away on him an he had a co2 canister an stuck it near the intake an opened the valve an it shut it off an when it did he heard a loud ping an that was the last he ever ran it so i told him not to do that no more an use a solid flat object to starve it for air its safer for the engine so it won't cause more damage to the engine
i wouldnt even risk it now i guess you could magnaflux it and see how deep it is but maybe go the 8v92 route i mean they will pull better than the 71 anyway i know adelmans truck parts has some military 8v92s for 3850.00 it maybe a better way to go honestly if you could have found a 12v92 that would have been awesome because they make so much more power than the 71 good luck either way
Yes they will pull better, instead of 15 Briggs and Stratton it will pull like an 18hp Briggs and Stratton
@@RJ1999x the 238 was 2horsepower and 38 oil leaks
@@Colt-tf6xf I get a kick out of people's fascination with a Detroit engine, not that they weren't reliable, because they were, but a powerhouse they are not, I have a Chevrolet Bison with a 338 hp 8V71, on flat land it will run like a scalded monkey, but hit a hill it lays down and dies, and the noise is almost unbearable at times, especially when you hit the jakes
@@RJ1999x they made an 8v71 with 370 hp that actually ran pretty good if you kept after it, never had it in any real mountains, but flat and rolly it was fun to hammer on
@@Colt-tf6xf You will notice most Detroit's had lots of gears or an automatic transmission, so GM knew it wasn't a torque monster, so I always get a kick out of people today that want to talk about Detroit's and power. On gensets where they wail away they're great, boats, pumps, construction equipment with torque converters, but direct drive in trucks is a different matter. Mack on the other hand knew it had power and torque and you rarely see a lot of gears in old macks. Pretty popular was a 4 speed with high and low, and low was if you going straight up a wall
the clearances between the piston rings and their grooves are way too wide. it will need a rebuild.
Ask Detroit Wayno
Never turn a Detroit with a breaker Bar Detroit's are well-known to fire there is always fuel in a injector and it will start brrrrrr
That video would go viral!
Has anyone ever said that you are dyslexia? :) Thanks for the vids.
There’s your serial number
Bus Grease Monkey is the best with Detroit engine. Check out his TH-cam
Dude you paid $10,000.00 for it,you got scammed .
Not even close.
Reach out to bus grease monkey. He specializes with detroits.
I wouldn't trust that block that's a massive crack