Hero or Terrorist? - John Brown - US History - Part 1 - Extra History
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John Brown was an American abolitionist leader who fought for the equality of all races. He helped countless slaves reach freedom in his lifelong pursuit of equality but his use of violence as a necessary tool is highly controversial, even to this day.
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Part 1 - • Hero or Terrorist? - J...
Part 2 - • Choosing Violence - Jo...
Part 3 - • Bleeding Kansas - John...
Part 4 - • The Raid on Harper’s F...
Part 5 - • Battle Hymn of the Rep...
Series Wrap-up & Recommended Reading / Lies Episode - • John Brown - LIES - US...
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He was a goddamn hero
Ok
Please do Texas revolution please extra history
@@humanperson3365 Gigachad before it was cool.
Can you please make a video about Gavrilo Princip and his comrades of Young Bosnia? Interesting topic, not widely covered on TH-cam in english.
* My bad, you already did it.
Fun fact: John Brown’s father actually employed Jesse Grant, father of Ulysses S. Grant.
Small world
I would love to see similar Extra History series on Ulysses S. Grant from selling firewood to becoming one the best US generals and later the President of United States.
...and John Wilk-Booth's brother once saved Lincoln's son from drowning...!
...indeed...the world is full of strange coincidence...!
@@Packless1 You know the phrase the world is a small place fitts like
Washington involvement with the 7 years wars or John Paul’s jones involvement with Catherine the great
And Catherine the great connection with Frederick the great etc
@@Mrmcnugget4beat me to it
If terrorism is horrific violence with the aim of terrifying a group into political submission, then American slavery is a particularly long and gruesome terrorist enterprise.
What could repair that?
Not just American, all slavery around the world scared people into submission. It’s not strictly an American thing, although people love to act like it.
@@calundoconteal6851Well everyone knows that but the topic is on U.S slavery
@@y.v.n.gvidsstuff1057 unfortunately, many don’t or refuse to acknowledge this, since it serves a modern political purpose, but anyone who is not ideologically driven knows
@@calundoconteal6851 Yeah I've known this there our different versions of slavery aswell but Yeah I understand atleast your educating ppl tho 🤝🏽
Once you hear terms like 'forced breeding programs' it kind of silences ones objections to murder as a solution.
Murder is something that's done to people. If Fido gets rabies, he just stops being Fido at some point. Slavery's just the same, and the solutions the same for both: Prevention of infection, and ending the misery of those who are infected.
Amen
@@Ropetrick6 I believe I once heard slavery described as a cancer.
Some slave owners try argue that they were good people cause they treated their slaves nicely. But the very act already blackened the soul and slowly but surely it will twist you till you see these people as nothing but cattle.
Yup! That is a part usually left out of the history books. By the time of the Civil War many if not most Plantations in Virgnia and other Slave states on the East Coast weren't so much farms that raised cash crops as ranches that bred human livestock.
To me, it's his competence that should be called into question more, not really his morality
“As Christ died to make us holy. Let us die to make men free. As his soul goes marching on”
Good to see you here comrade hope you're well
I didn’t expect to find you here
Rawest line in any marching song ever
"A non-violent solution to slavery was not possible" he was 100% accurate there
It *technically* did, Brazil peacefully ended slavery with gradual emancipation like a lot of anti slavery northerners wanted
But that process took DECADES of internal and international pressure, making Brazil the last country in the Americas to abolish it in 1888, and even then it was so unpopular among the former slave owning elite they helped stage a coup that overthrew the pro emancipation emperor Pedro ll
@@seanmcloughlin5983 that’s Brazil this is America two cmm I’m completely different nations
@@Darkcamera45exactly we have nothing in common with Brazilians 😂
@@MintyFreshB If you read about the rest of the world you'd know about it
Except it very much was, it happend all over the Americas and Europe, the Civil war was not about slavery, you'd be naive to ever think such
🎶He captured Harper’s Ferry with his 19 men so true, he frightened ol’ Virginia till she trembled through and through!
They hanged him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew, his soul goes marching on!🎵
Glory, glory hallelujah! Glory, glory hallelujah!
Glory, glory hallelujah! His soul goes marching on!
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
But his soul goes marching on
GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!
He's gone to be a soldier in the army of the lord.
He's gone to be a soldier in the army of the lord.
He's gone to be a soldier in the army of the lord.
But his soul goes marching on!
@@warguy1945
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the LORD,
He's trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored,
He hath loosed the fateful lightning from His terrible swift sword
His truth is marching on
@@MrAcuriteOf1337 don’t pollute this thread with trashy derivative copies
Others asked themselves if violence could be the solution. But to him, violence was the question, and the answer was YES.
The meme work
Less slavers = less slavery if you 'cut down' the demand the slave market is no more.
The government has a monopoly on violence
The violence was already present, experienced most acutely by the slaves.
@@riz3310
*against slavers
You know, there's has always been a clear moral dissonance. When even monetary loss for slavers is somehow a bigger issue than slaves being beaten and murdered daily.
How I Defeated Racism with the Power of Pacifist Calvinism
Chapter 1: The power of pacifist Calvinism
The first step on my journey was learning it is impossible to defeat Racism with the power of pacifist Calvinism
Chapter 2: The power of INCREDIBLE Violence
The racism isn't defeated yet. On the other hand, hoping people will see all the violence the racists do and side with the pacifist anti-racist movements doesnt seem to be working, so maybe a little "two can play at that game" sort of mentality could help. Either that or the break up of media monopolies that lets racist narratives dominate.
Based
Did the incredible violence actually defeat racism though?
@@GonnaDieNever It didn’t, hasn’t, and never will.
@TheAKgunner but it results in dead racists and that's still a net positive for the world
An incredibly important figure. It's hard to fault him for turning to violence in the face of such an vile institution. Certainly the pro-slavers had no qualms about murder, and much worse.
So what you're saying is that two wrongs do make a right? That taking a family hostage in the middle of the night for "questioning" and then hacking them to death in cold blood (without a semblance of proof of guilt) was a righteous action by a righteous man?
@@barbiquearea No, you said that. What they wrote is what they wrote.
@@aaronsirkman8375 here is the thing tho you may believe in something without saying it
@@barbiquearea The morally questionable actions of one man against the institutionalized evil of millions? Two wrongs don't make a right, but killing pro-slavery forces (and Doyle and his two adult sons were explicitly pro-slavery men who worked for the Law and Order Kansas Slavery party) in a world where there are no legal recourses to save 4 million people in bondage is a lot more sympathetic.
@@barbiquearea In this specific case? Yes. Those who weren't against slavery were complicit and therefore guilty. When the alternatives are human breeding, slavery, and genocide, the only solution is violence. Slavery didn't peter-out and die, it was ended through war and bloodshed, slavery was never going to end peacefully, the plantation-class were not people who could be reasoned with. Violence is rarely if ever the answer, but the sheer scale and horror of the south in the 19th century was a monster that could only be dealt with by sword.
The thing is - like it or not - Violence was the solution. It took the bloodiest war in US history to finally end slavery. Slavers would never stop without being physically forced to stop.
What I find funny about viewing the Civil War through the lense of the goal to end slavery is the South fucking started the war. It was their own damn fault lmao
@@zombieoverlord5173 Mr Zombie. Please tell the class why the south started the war. Thanks
@@squee222 To Preserve slavery. They were concerned that they would have trouble winning another presidential election in the future and passing legislation that would expand slavery further into the territories. Without the Expansion of slavery, something president elect Abe was against, the institution would slowly die out
@@zombieoverlord5173 kind of like Putin invading Ukraine to either "stop NATO expansion" or "Denazify Ukraine" sort of backfired there. Of course it is entirely possible they were certain that if they remained in the union they'd lose their slaves eventually anyway so perhaps we should view the violent secession as a last ditch attempt to fend off the inevitable which failed miserably.
@@zombieoverlord5173 But they didn't start the war. They legally left the union they had voluntarily joined. And then when the Union said we still own you SC tried to kick them out. The north did invade the south (no matter how silly I think the name "war of northern aggression is) The states were meant to be sovereign. They should have been allowed to leave.
People judge the methods of those who do good far more strongly than they do acts of evil. Evil is banal and omnipresent and therefore hard to always concern ourselves with. Good attempts to usurp evil, and since it's an irregular force for change people take more note of it and judge it more than the evil it attempts to correct.
A hundred nobles guillotined is a blot on national history. A million peasants starved is just 'something that happened back then'.
Because a man that does evil shall always be seen as evil and condemned
A man that does good is seen as a symbol and could be used for justifying others' actions
And that is why someone views as good actions and believes no matter his cause or hindsight shall have his ethics and morals put into question so that he doesn't get used to justify one action
Lincoln and Sherman are living the same in hindsight their actions are justified but if we are living in the moment so one doesn't use like (Lincoln did the same so what is the problem with habeas corpus so why are you angry when the government does it now, of course, habeas corpus suspension is constitutional under certain conditions but if it was Lincoln doing it should be condemned no matter the reasons behind )
That's definitely how it should be. Saying you are doing good cannot be an excuse for doing evil. The most evil people in history have thought themselves to be doing good. And often to the admiration of their contemporaries. If you asked the people who murdered Elijah P. Lovejoy, they would have claimed they were "fighting against evil" as they committed one evil to uphold an even more horrific evil.
Those who claim to do good must be held accountable because the society that tolerates them will be held accountable when it's realized evil was done instead.
@@Merennulli Even when people agree with the goal - counter to the concept of evil justified as good and which exists regardless of who all agrees - they'll have more energy to spend criticizing the execution of the thing they also see as good, than they ever spend on confronting the thing they agree is bad.
A wise observation, my friend.
"A non violent solution to slavery is not possible" Dude had no idea how right he was
Dude knew EXACTLY how right he was.
I'm sorry, but hearing that the pro-slavery crowd was already resorting to terrorist violence makes John Brown's violent response completely justified.
May his example continue to teach us all how to be just in an unjust world.
The enslavement of a single person justifies the murder of the slaver. The insistence a lot of people have on focussing on violence against whites is really telling
It's not justified, it just made him as worse as the pro slavery people. You don't respond to murder by going and murdering the murderers
@@bluebubbadog2080 Yup. Sure. When you get invaded, don't fight back. Same logic my man.
@@bluebubbadog2080 so if someone invades your home don't fight back or you're just as bad
@benlex5672 That's self defense when you're invaded, what you're saying here is revenge and that I don't agree with
3:18 My God. Witnessing that would've radicalized me too. The worst kind of evil is the kind that is so normalized that people indulge in it without a second thought.
I'm excited to learn more about him. My private, religious school in the south had nothing good to say about him. There's a lot I was taught and not taught about that time period that I want to understand better.
I also may suggest oversimplified civil war video it a good quick summarization of the war and what lead up to it
Awesome, good on you. So many get taught what they're taught and never explore it deeper.
Godbotherers school being a bunch of dishonest propagandists... Perish the thought.
Ama, some advice, learn for yourself by yourself because at best schools teach "lies to children" at worst absolute ----ocks.
I'd advise authors outside of the US, you'll get a more balanced approach and a better understanding of the situation.
@@painvillegaming4119 I would also add Atun-Shei Film's Checkmate Linconites series. He gives an excellent view of the events and concepts during and around the Civil War, so I'd say it's worth a watch!
@@canadi-eh9395 yeah and he is quite funny tho sometimes I feel like he gives too many personal beliefs rather than facts (like 0.01% of the time do I feel that and honestly that not the problem is that he does this and doesn't admit to it like comparing lost causes to people pissed at cancel culture even tho it seem all sides agree cancel culture is cancer just gonna have me oppose him a bit cause he can't admit when he is biased or wrong )
I suggest vlogging through history reactions as he gives a lot of good arguments and tends to agree with Atun shei tho call him out when he feels is unfair or when he gives too much credit
John browns body lies a-moldering in the grave. But his soul goes marching on!
GLORY GLORY HALLELUJAH!!!
And though he lost his life in the struggle to free the slaves, his truth goes marching on!
He captured Harper's Ferry
With his nineteen men so true,
He frightened Ol' Virginia
Til She trembled through and through.
They hanged him for a traitor,
They themselves the traitor crew!
His soul goes marching on!
I hope maggot had picked this bloody man's corpse clean.
GLOOOOORY GLORY HALLELUJAHHHHH
GLOOOOORY GLORY HALLELUJAHHHHH
GLOOOOORY GLORY HALLELUJAHHHHH
BUT HIS SOUL GOES MARCHING ONNN
The story about the child being beaten with a shovel is enough to silence any questions about violence against slavers
No one at Pottawotamie was a slaver or slaveowner.
@@lgmmrm they were pro-slavery, something I'm assuming you're not opposed to.
Definitely both. He did engage in terrorism, but he did it for a cause so unquestionably good, and so intractable to a solution through peaceful means, that there wasn't another solution available to him. In the event, it took a war costing hundreds of thousands of lives, to even accomplish a fraction of John Brown's righteous goals.
To some it's terrorism, to others it's vigalantism.
Also, he was responding to the terrorism of slavers with terrorism of his own so it isnt like you can condemn him without condemning his enemies even more.
It’s not terrorism if the cause was based on Justice
@@iche9373 all terrorists think their cause is based on justice. they wouldn't do terrorism otherwise. one mans terrorist is another freedom fighter
@@mikeandnike123 Terrorism is when you kill in the name of your ideology.
Freedom fighters don’t kill for their ideology.
i heard he was killing slavers and i immediately was like 'oh hell yeah im gonna love watching this dude mess stuff up'
Do we know that everyone he killed was a slaver?
I feel the same way with abortion doctors
@@ronniehopper2726 that’s a bit harsh comparing abortion doctors to enslavers
Abortion lowers crime rate and boost the economy. Slavery does the opposite
@@christiandauz3742 Lol. Now we got a slavery vs abortion debate
John Brown's one of the heroes of history, a man of unwavering principles. There's something nearly mythical about his unflinching dedication to end slavery.
A true comrade and a shining beacon.
Indeed
Paul Hill was also a "man of principle" and was a very religious person who felt God ordained him to fight against abortion. Which led him to murder a abortion doctor one day with a shotgun.
It's a real supermascist & anti hero
@@barbiquearea Why is this relevant? Do you think executing a slaver owner is as horrific a crime as murdering an innocent doctor, or do you not think the horrors of chattel slavery in this country were that bad? Which one is it?
@@coolguyjki
It is relevant precisely because Paul Hill decided the doctor was not innocent and that he had the authority to inflict death on the doctor as punishment.
"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."
@@QVUTDN Slavery is a poor economic function which serves only to drive wealth up to the upper class.
@@QVUTDN See people like you are aching for a broadswording.
bro that's a mumar Gadaffi quote
@@QVUTDN If it was so necessary, why did everywhere abolish it successfully?
@@QVUTDN "economic necessity", than why was the north richer, and better than the south?
Besides hitting his kids (which was sadly normal at the time) I see nothing wrong with his actions in this video. Interested to see where the story goes!
His scheme got some of his sons killed.
So, it gets worse.
To be fair to hitting the kids
He did let them hit him too
So he wasn’t a abusive dad he use hitting as a way to discipline which is used until today
My parent hit me personally they don’t like it but sometimes what other way do we have to discipline of course they didn’t take a belt and beat me bloody and senseless
@@painvillegaming4119 yeah do you not see how that might have impacted your opinion
@@dunbass7149 again it depends
I grew up in a country where teachers could beat you to a bloody mess with a stick hell even tutors could I personally being beating by tutors using a candle whenever I made a fault during studying (yes that happened and I was hit really hard ) my parent got rid of the teacher because well that kind of hitting is too much
A little hit on the hand isn’t as bad as getting hit with a stick
@@painvillegaming4119 Why is the fact that you were abused worse by other people relevant to the idea that abusing children is wrong? I was abused pretty extensively all throughout my life and I'm pretty sure it was wrong no matter who did it. You don't need to excuse people for being wrong.
Can y'all do a video/series about Thomas Paine? He is always overlooked but he has done so many fascinating things
The one objectively good founding father
@@froze525 fax
Look up The Mark Steel Lecture on Paine. Mark is a comedian who does biographies about historical figures in a comedic fashion. He’s fun and informative. I’ll see if I can find a link.
He was basically American Rousseau intelligent sure but self assured and naive. He would probably be a woke poly if he lived today
How about Henry George and Georgism
One of my all-time favorite people in history. Obscenely based.
His truth is marching on!
A cold blooded murderer is your hero? You my friend need to have higher standards.
@@barbiquearea whats wrong with murdering slavers
@@barbiquearea most famous people from history committed murder, maybe you need to read a history book or learn to whine less.
@@HugsMando Isn't that like saying what's wrong with murdering drug dealers? If I rounded up a posse and went to some drug dealer's house and hacked him and his adult sons to death for their horrible trade. Does that make me a hero?
His grave is here in Southern California, and I've always wanted to hike up to it and honor him. The man was an absolute hero. The more I learn about the realities of slavery, the more strongly I feel about that.
Oooooo I must go see
He's buried in North Elbe, New York. His family moved to California after his death.
@@SleventyFive you know, you're right - I had to google, it's his son Owen that's buried here. Still worth honoring, though, sounds like
You can honour him much more greatly by finding those who are oppressed and joining their fight for freedom, whomever that may be. Clothe the naked, shelter the homeless, aid the sick, feed the hungry, and, if you have the courage, mete poison grain for grain out upon their oppressors.
@@Axelgear2006 True, but still worth visiting the grave of the man to pay some respect. No harm in that.
Controversial? Granted I'm Canadian, but I'm in my 30s and this is literally the first time I've ever heard JB described as anything other than one of the greatest heroes of US history.
floridian here, im almost certain books about him being a hero are soon to be censored! how fun!
@@isylvia Book banning states of Florida, Texas, Tennessee... those states needed to be burned by Sherman.
@@isylvia Stay strong.... maybe have some contingencies planned. Either to leave or....
In my school right across the border from you guys in suburban Detroit and I was taught he was a radical but he was portrayed as controversial and too brash
From Virginia, was taught he was a terrorist
This man is literally my hero, he literally saw slavery happening and just straight up went "NAH" and proceeded go cut/shoot his way to glory, his core mission being to defend the defenseless.
Slavers were almost always evil, a general rule of thumb was that most slavers deserved death. Yes a few southerners only kept slaves to save them from the other slavers in the area, but unfortunately history shows us they did nothing but perpetuate the system that needed to be ended.
And what of the non-slavers?
@@CABRALFAN27 If they fight for slavery, they die for slavery.
@@CABRALFAN27 Exactly. Why did they do nothing to stop their fellows from committing evil?
@robertross45 go fight a crowd of people i dare you
@@theenderdestruction2362 They couldn't have organized? Campaigned?
He was a Martyr for Freedom! You guys rock on your subjects!
More like a martyr for insanity 😂😂😂😂
@@luisfilipe2023
Go back to the plantations
@@luisfilipe2023 Anyone that fights Slavery is a hero in my eyes
@@jacobberg373 even if they murder hundreds of innocents? It’s exactly that kind of radical mentality That caused half a million Americans to die bozo
@@marseldagistani1989 you seem to be the one who is on the negros side lol
Slaves are people. Slavers are not.
I feel no sympathy for any ancestors lost or bloodlines ended to John Brown's hand.
Slavers are also people and should be judged like people. People can be good or evil and sometimes both
@@Ch-ew9tmAnyone who thinks they have a right to own another human being is less than one and should be judged as such.
Violence is often not the best solution, however when your enemies have already resorted to it, keeping it in the toolbag is a good idea.
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
But his soul goes marching on
Hero. He didn't kill people, he killed slavers.
And their wives and children.
@@grandhierophantkhatep685okay? Did the slavers care about enslaved children? If the situation demands picking a side, why would we pick the side that's morally wrong?
@@andrewking9454 Killing children because their father was evil is a shaky logic at best. The best argument would probably be that it is inevitable that they would die in those circumstance
Slavers are people. Evil people. De-humanizing is cheap and incorrect in every sense. Murder is always immoral, but good people always do immoral things somewhere in their life. John was certainly a good man.
@@grandhierophantkhatep685 No he didn't, you have him confused with Nat Turner
One of my favourite historical figures and in my opinion no question a hero
He executed men without trial in front of their wives and children.
I would question calling him a "hero".
@@badluck5647nah it was warranted
You can be the most evil man alive and still be a hero to some.
@@badluck5647 Slavers and their defenders aren't men
@@badluck5647 Not men: slavers.
Killing to stop an act as vile as enslavement of other human beings is a heroic act.
I like how honest business practices of not making customers pay for water in wet hides is considered odd.
I think it's more that even if they said 'I know I'm overpaying, it's fine' he would refuse to sell them. Not that he was honest with his customers but that he refused to let them buy something even when they wanted to because he felt it was dishonest.
It's even better in that, charging them for water is honestly understandable, Water was a precious resource.
@@aronbaron1746 ...you would drink water out of a leather hide?
@@shadestained You can do more with water than just drink it, but to answer your question, yeah.
@@aronbaron1746that’s not how it works. The water used in the treatment process is contaminated to be point of diss use. Now I don’t know if you can use it again for the same process. But saying you can drink it is like saying you can drink the water runoff from an oil refinery because it’s “water”.
1. Non violent solution to slavery was not possible.
2. All races are equal under god and the law.
3. The only form of emancipation is immediate and total.
I mean, the dude was not wrong.
I take it you'll be shipping off to fight it in Africa then?
@@Illumiragetry not to be bait challenge(IMPOSSIBLE)
@@beans00001 shaddup
@@beans00001try not to be a coward challenge: impossible
He’s done more with a few men than thousands with big, empty phrases .Not only a Hero . . also visionnary. From France 🇫🇷
Can you imagine in modern day america someone extremely religious fighting FOR social equality?
Mad lad read the bible and went "The bible said we're equal and BY GOD, I'll make it so." Legend.
I dont need to imagine that, that's my boyfriend.
I know people like that
there's a lot of people like that. folks who actually put the word into use in their day to day instead of using it to enable their bigotry
I love seeing all the people talking about the people they know who are actually like this.
It gives me back some faith in humanity
It's what they are supposed to be like. The "religious right" of today have poisoned things.
Neither a terrorist nor a hero
A legend
You should go fight slavery in Africa like your hero
please explain
Anti Hero
Okay, but no mention of how one of John Brown's Father's apprentices was Jesse Grant? Who, in order to save money on education got his son Hiram an appointment to the United States Military Academy where his name was incorrectly entered as Ulysses S. Grant.
Living here in Kansas, it is so frustrating and disappointing that so many Kansans now effectively support the modern political and social descendants of the Confederacy in terms of the politicians and laws that they endorse. Not that Kansas is the only Union state that has been corrupted by the legacy of the South.
It feels like we need new John Browns to once again force us to do what is right, but I'm too cynical to believe that enough of my fellow Americans have that kind of moral conscience.
Let's remember that back in his time, most of the population didn't support his actions either.
Progress always stems from the actions of a dedicated minority.
Let me guess you believe in the party switch myth. The reason why Kansans support conservatism is because they want to conserve the legacy of freedom America was founded to defend. As today as in 1941 1865 and 1776 patriotic Americans reject tyranny whatever its color
@@painvillegaming4119 Things can always go off the rails. But the French revolution in the first place was... Pretty well justified.
I would absolutely NOT entertain the idea that there needs to be murder. As an outsider, and a historian, modern day USA will NOT have anything good come from murder.
If anything, these kinds of acts on the basis of “Moral conscience” would almost always spin into even more violence where innocents will be killed. Need I point out the French Revolution? Or Haitian Revolution?
@@openthinker6562 Its a matter of whats necessary, tbh. Violent revolution in Haiti against the slave owners was a moral imperative.
When Injustice becomes law, then resistance becomes duty. Hero definitely
Still terrorism though….
@@shawnellesmith not any worse than the institution and practices of slavery
@@shawnellesmithno, it was based what he did.
@@Mayan_88694 He committed violent acts for political gain; which is the definition of the word terrorism.
@@shawnellesmith He targeted a group oppressing others
Most of his “Crimes” we're against slave owners and we all know slave owners can't complain, they own other humans, So hero.
If someone commits a crime, that does not make it legal to commit any crime against said person. That's a worse legal construct than hammurabi's code.
What he was doing was wrong and he knew that but he was willing to bear that sin for the betterment of society. He was not a villain or a hero but a martyr.
...unfortunately it's not that simple...! ☹
...the moral dilemma is, that 2 times 'wrong' doesn't make 'right'...! ☹
@@sigiledraven6309 His solution would have amounted to killing all slavers and their children. That's at least as bad as the slavery itself, you'd be committing genocide. You'd also be sowing the seeds for further conflict. Peaceful solutions take longer but their results are more permanent.
@@Packless1 Oh I don't care about Morals when it comes to judging someone's allowance to own another human being. Two wrongs don't make a right but owning another human is just plain wrong not matter.
If you spend most of your life beating a man down and terrorizing his family for kicks, and the law refuses to do anything about it, you don't get to complain when he snaps and strangles you.
I'm not a proponent for corporal punishment, that was just what happened at the time, but the idea of turning the punishment around on yourself is kinda brilliant. Assuming your kid isn't sadistic, it would almost be more painful to have to lash your father than to have him lash you.
The correct awnser is both. By definition, he was a terrorist. But he was also a hero who fought against an evil that was allowed by the US Government.
The words Hero and Terrorist aren't mutually exclusive. They're typically perpetuated based on culture. Some can even be both simultaneously.
He's both.
Terrorism is a tactic, not an ideology.
The Boston Tea Party was an act of terrorism, too.
Exactly. The IRA was fighting for an independent Ireland, a noble goal, using terrorist tactics.
So was pro life radical Paul Hill's murder of Dr John Bayard Britton, an abortion doctor in 1994. To many pro-life advocates he is considered a hero and a martyr. But I think we can both agree that his unlawful killing of a legal doctor (who he saw as a murderer) was an act of terror.
Also the Boston Tea Party destroyed merchandise in an act of civil disobedience. The instigators didn't kill anyone. John on the other hand.....
@@barbiquearea You keep trying to use this slippery slope argument, but it doesn't work.
A perfect example of a true Christian, unwavering in the face of human cruelty and a martyr for the people
Christian guess u forgot about thou shall not kill
@@MONKEYDZETSthe correct wording of that verse is "Thou shall not commit murder"
@@MONKEYDZETSKilling in war is okay, is it not?
He thought himself a prophet similar to Moses.
‘Cough’ crusades
I'd love to see an episode on Bleeding Kansas going into detail about the various skirmishes and Beecher's Bibles etc.
JB has a permanent seat to every cookout in Heaven.
Rest in Power.
Dude got fast tracked to Valhalla where even Wotan and Thor are humbled by such courage and conviction.
He belived himself too important and killed without remorse, it dosen't matter that he killed slavers, If you killed someone without remorse that is a sin, he also killed non-slavers
@@Jakov-or7fphave you heard of the crusades??
Hell must be full af rn from all the times a person has killed another person in the name of religion.
Hero. He was a hero.
Based.
He was both. The definition of terrorist is someone who unlawfully uses violence for political aims. That's exactly what he did. But he did it to to end a violent and evil institution before most people were on board with using violence to do so. And he was right. The Civil War proves that there wasn't going to be a peaceful end to slavery.
He was incomprehensibly based
Tell was Paul Hill also a hero?
@@barbiquearea No, because abortion is good and slavery is evil. Glad I could clear that up for you!
He was a radical but radical times need radical men. He truly believed in the words of the constitution that all men are equal. He is up there with american radicals like Tom paine. Shay's rebellion Fredrick douglass the 1811 slave uprising in louisianna. And many nore that we don't know about
Agree he definitely had a noble cause and goal
And the people stating otherwise are stupid
However what people seem to have a problem with is the means with hindsight the means are justified as for at the time it could have end it worst
It could have backfired
You know how some protesters now a days are willing to destroy priceless paintings for environmentalism the goal is just the means just anger and make people want to do everything to oppose you
The goals and means should be weighted and the route it can take
@Pain Ville gaming bit of a poor comparison. One reason is that none of those paintings so far have actually been destroyed. The ppl targeting them have been shockingly careful to target protected works. Ones that have glass panes sealing them.
@@Arohan71 Yeah, I see people mocking them for "forgetting" that the paitings are protected by glass panels... Everyone knows it, of course they know it XD
God DAMN John can do it!!!! How the hell did he manage having over TWENTY Kids???
Honestly not that weird or Uncommon back then honestly it was kind necessary cause kids tend it to die young so most had a bunch of children also to help in the house work
It was not as odd then as now to have to have 20 kids but it was still extreme even then. Just look how many kids most historical figures at the age had. 3-8 is more common and many still didn’t have any. That he had two wives certainly helped with having this many.
Clearly John took the Bible passage telling us to "be fruitful and multiply" WAY too literally.
No birth control probably
@@painvillegaming4119 you can even see this watching this series with more than half of them dying.
obviously a hero and the people that disagree are racist. it really is that simple.
John Brown’s body lies a moldering in the grave
John Brown’s body lies a moldering in the grave
John Brown’s body lies a moldering in the grave
But his soul is marching on…
As far as I'm concerned, John Brown's one and only mistake was not taking more slaver scumbags down with him.
He’s not a terrorist because human rights are not an issue of politics they’re an issue of morality.
You could justify Jody about anything with loose logic like that
I feel that most history class style books focus only on the attack on Harper's Ferry, but don't mention much if anything about the years/events leading up to it, at least my history classes did that, so I'm excited for this series to show more.
John Brown's body lies a moulderin' in the grave
But his soul goes marchin' on
Super happy that you are covering him, I am looking forward to your take on him, however it falls. I have personally thought of him as an obvious zealot but also a very brave man with the courage of his convictions and in that belief the determination to endeavour to aim for triumph. 👏
Like deployed 👍
All zealots are brave their problem is being bravely stupid
He was absolutely a zealot, but also a hero.
@Jonathan Rich Yep, he and his sons "heroically" slaughtered their enemies as they prayed for mercy during Bleeding Kansas.
@@barbiquearea cry about it dixie boy
Great to have any series of US Civil War and as not American I have had not heard of him until a couple of years ago.
Although it’s nice even though this is US based channel there hasn’t been too much US series. I think just Articles of Confederation, Teddy Roosevelt, Pearl Harbor and this one. And the 1918 pandemic series was pretty US based. Although the with one of episodes and shorter US gets picked as location pretty easily. But these longer Patreon picked series tend to be pretty international.
Look was what he did “wrong” sure killing others is bad . Would I buy him a beer EVERY DAMN NIGHT ! Slavery and slave owners (especially in bleeding Kansas when they moved they’re specifically to start violence and expand slavery) are were and will forever be terrible scars on Americas history . I love Washington but slavery will always need to be mentioned amping any claims of his perfect as a leader . And don’t “well everyone did it !” me those arguments fall flat and basically try to excuse atrocities by saying everyone was doing it so you can’t blame everyone , yes yes you can cause even if a huge subsection was for it there were always people against it .
Bro he was against slavery of course he was a hero
If all violence is terrorism: some people are morally worthy of being terrified, slavers are among them.
You are saying “Hero or Terrorist” like those two terms are mutually exclusive
Not gonna lie, I see no problem with the deaths of slavers. I have no sympathy of them or how freeing slaves would effect them economically.
Knowing that racism still has not been cured in USA we can probably say this man is not too far off.
Exactly! I’m tired of conservatives fooling people into thinking racism and other bigotry is over just because most basic rights are there.
Nevermind how conservatives have been trying to reverse the flow of human and civil rights and sadly succeeding recently.
To be fair, racism sadly hasn't been “cured” anywhere…
These events aren’t that long ago in the end.
As long as more than one race of people exist there will be racists
Dude. Compared to almost the rest of the world, the US is on of the least racist.
Hero, not much of a doubt here
Murder is worse than slavery...
he was a fanatical terrorist - you shalt not murder in my name
@@aidanphillips6760 nobody is asking to do it in your name and neither for your permission for that matter
@@guiu9878 obviously you haven't been reading scripture recently or gospel... for that matter. fyi, the lord doesn't permit such ruthless acts of violence on the innocent
@@aidanphillips6760and the innocent support slavery and propetuate it? Run their entire economy off it? Anyone who supported the instantution of slavery wasn't good. Even if 2/3 of the south didnt own slaves, they still willingly stood for the horrible institution of slavery.
Killed slavers? Huh. Righto then. Insert "Oh no. Anyway" meme.
For all the hand wringing about violence by the abolitionists, it ignores the violence done, both systemically, and at the personal and political level, such as at 7:31 and 7:41.
In short, we should be aware that these assholes aren't going to extend the same courtesy.
I love when they animate some scenes, ik its probably really hard to do but it looks really good and it would be amazing if they did it more often
Agree whenever they do it it hits harder
Thanks! We're transitioning to more fully animated scenes. We would love to do it for the whole video but it's still new to our artists and we're not sure how much we can do with our time constraints of having a weekly episode As always we'll keep improving our content!
@@extrahistory no way you guys will actually make entirely animated episodes! tha will be so cool!
@@extrahistory you guys should do a series on Cecil Rhodes and his conquest of Zimbabwe and establishment of de beers
Before war on terror :
Let's see Hans in die hard movie is doing terrorist acts
Chechen War 1994
Russian terrorism
Uh, hero. Next question
Terror is exactly what slavers should be feeling
Dead Racists - "Oh God almighty, I do say that violence hath lost it's luster when a man finds himself the recipient of it's unforsaken fury"
John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave, John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave, John Brown’s body lies a-mouldering in the grave, but his soul goes marching on!
“Was he a hero or a terrorist?”
Is it too much to ask for both? -Tony Stark
Why are racists so persistent??? Like if you put all that energy towards something positive and productive just think how useful a person could be...
John Brown's body lies a mouldering in the grave
*BUT HIS SOUL GOES MARCHING ON!*
I recognize you from r/kaisereich 😮
The attacks on non violent abolitionist by southern guerrillas forced pacists to rethink their pacifism. The movie the outlaw Josey Wales was a total historical revisionism of the actual history of this period. Not to mention a total plagiarism of the pacifist farmer experience...
I think it is pretty heroic to make slavers face up to the judgement of the Lord.
Was Paul Hill also a hero when he made a abortion doctor face up to the judgement of the Lord the day he shot him to death in public? Because many pro-life advocates to this day certainly think so.
Amen brother
Jesus would not condone the murder of humans, no matter how evil they may be
@@bluebubbadog2080 God commanded the destruction of the enemies of Israel. I daresay American slavers were even worse than the Egyptians.
@Alaplaya9 show me where Jesus commanded us to go kill those who do evil?
So how long until Extra Credits is banned in Flordia by DeSantis?
SPOILER ALERT:
They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew BUT HIS TRUTH MARCHES ON!
The American Ned Kelly
"these are not law enforcement and this is not an arrest"
I like to imagine it was at this point they yelled their final words "so much for the tolerant left!!" before getting cut to ribbons.
Can I do the same to you when it comes time for you to pay the price for supporting this courrpt system?
Oooooh.... Way down south in the land of traitors...
John Brown’s body lies a-moldering in the grave.
John’s Brown’s body lies a-moldering in the grave.
John brown’s body lies a moldering in the grave.
But his soul goes marching on…
I wish not to be rude, as I greatly enjoy this channel, but the terminology used at the end of the video in stating "Bloody Kansas" should have been the term "Bleeding Kansas". A great opening video overall though.
I'm sorry we don't live in your little ideal fantasy world because this is real life, and unfortunately if you want to do something as heroic as this man you need to respond with violence as the slave owners were just as violent. And what do you think of the slaves who dealt with violence everyday from these slave owners? You think they could just peacefully try and escape even though they saw what happened to the Native Americans as well as slaves who tried to escape? Violence in these situations is inevitable and it will happen because we don't live in some ideal fantasy world where these type of people (slave owners) will just put down their guns and whips and let their slaves free.
Right, when were any rights EVER “just given” to an oppressed group lol… how naive
@@RealDonaldDrumpf the 1960s
@@Illumiragelol, the cryptofascist seems to have forgotten about all the protesting that preceded the Civol Rights Act
@@Illumirageyou really need to pick up a book if you think that falls under “just given”
@@yowaddup5649 meh, nit pick harder
Hero, next question
@@FoulFan why do you glorify slavers?
Hero. Next question.
As a resident of the mediocre state of Kansas, great topic choice. It's one of the few interesting things about this state.
Both.
People forget that terrorism can be for good reasons
As someone who usually hates Yankees and Calvinists , I tell you: this Blessed Warrior's only flaw (Besides maybe corporal punishmet) was not killing enough .A Hero in the Crusade against the Barbariosm and Savagery of Slavery and for the Life , Liberty and Dignity of Men .
Lost Causers would have you focused myopically on the Harpers' Ferry incident, while conveniently forget about all the other slavering monsters he had put down in Bleeding Kansas.
He was a hero and a force for good. That doesn't mean that he was nice or that he wasn't problematic in other ways. When faced with abomination that is entrenched and protected, you have to be savage and you almost always have to fight. I can think of only once when freedom was given to people because they asked and used non-violent methods, which was in India, and that was only possibly because of how much WWII had crippled the British. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge though, and don't pretend to, so maybe there are other examples.
Lawful neutral?
The British giving up India was not done for asking and non violence: As with MLK and civil rights, freedoms are only granted by the threats of the oppressed.
@@dawn4383 It was more of the South's violence against the civil rights activists that contributed to civil rights rather than any violence or threats the movement ever did
Wonder if you'd give the Founding Fathers the same charitable look...
@@foristrothbert568 I have to say, I probably wouldn't. Their complaints with regard to the british were... Much less important, their own savage slaving behavior was certainly not directed at correcting an injustice.
I'll give them the "It wasn't that weird for their time" charitability but going beyond that feels like it can't be justified.
But I don't really criticize the founders of the USA for their revolution. It's... Pretty nice, but pretty irrelevant to their support for slavery.
I know this is a bad time, but... Only in Ohio.
Hero or terrorist? Both, it's not like being a terrorist bars you from being a hero, if the laws are unjust a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. Sometimes violence and disruption is needed in furthering good and just political and social goals
Now granted, his violence didn't do that
To borrow from the musical, Wicked, “It’s all in which label is able to persist. There are precious few at ease with moral ambiguities, so we pretend as if they don’t exist.”
Hero, without a doubt.
At least when it comes to slavery.
I don't like how he treated his children.
John Browns body lies a moldering in the grave, but his soul goes marching on.
"Your honour, my client was incredibly based"
Begin with peace but keep your sword arm ready.
If they will not listen to reason or empathy they will listen to blood and fire.