Install Simonis on a Diamond Smart Table using only contact glue, no staples.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ต.ค. 2024
- I am recovering a 7' Diamond Smart table Bed Cloth using RKC250 Billiard Adhesive. For a video of the entire table being completed please see my other videos. See links below for printable instructions.
Bed Cloth - • Install Simonis on a D...
Covering Rails - • Installing new Simonis...
Entire Process - • Installing Simonis 860...
PDF of recovery instructions - ufile.io/9y52mex0
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 83 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "พันฤทธิ์ vs ซุปเปอร์บอล วันของโอม MBK"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1b4pkKHa_Fk/mqdefault.jpg)
I have to say, I was a bit skeptical... But after seeing your work, it looks amazing! So clean and perfect
Amazing work sir! I've recently played on one of these tables you've done. I'm convinced Simonis cloth will have to be the next & only cloth on my table at home from here on out.
The Simonis is some good stuff. I think the best thing about it is the consistency in play weather it is 1 month old, or 1 year old.
Awesome video! I have an 8ft Blatt Billiard table to do in this cloth. It's great you showed the entire process. I will calculate your Index and apply it to the 8ft. Question, did your indexes come from simonis or from your experience? And why are the side pocket offsets different from side to side? Does that allow for the anchor side stretch somehow? Thank you for this.
Never seen this done before, very skilled professional at work 👍
Thanks 👍
I'm a mechanic in San Diego, I use the same method. Definitely the best way to install simonis
Thank you so much for posting this. I just did my Pro-am followed your direction and it came out perfect.
Glad it helped!
I’ve been waiting years for this. Thank you Sir 👍👍💕💕
You make it look so easy! Great video, thank you.
Thanks for the comment. You are welcome.
Amazing work! Nice job on both the covering of the table and the process
Such a satisfying video. Just watching it, I feel very calmed.
A real pro...definitely the best on uTube...thanks
A thing of beauty, thank you. 👍
Najkomplikovanije presvlačenje bilijara
Great instructional video! I will try it out myself for the first time this coming week. Any final measurements on a 9foot table?
Sorry for the late reply, 1 3/4 for the main stretch.
This is a good video. I have recovered my table three times now the first time I reused the clock that was on the table before I got it then I bought $80 Amazon cloth after that I got a used cloth from my local billiards supply shop. The latest one turned out the best and I liked it the most for playability. Is it worth it to go the extra three hundred bucks for simonis. The billiard supply guy told me that you can only have a professional install simonis or it wouldn't turn out right. I feel like if I used contact cement instead of spray adhesive it would definitely be something I could do.I am concerned about the rails how many times do you think I could make an attempt to them?
Just depends on how much scrap cloth you have to practice. Simonis (or most other worsted cloth) is more difficult to install if you are used to using a normal (non-worsted) cloth.
When installing Simonis on the bed, you must watch for wrinkles when not stretching correctly, and stretch shadows when stretching too much, or in the wrong place.
Attaching Simonis to the rails you must watch for dimpling the point of the cushion, and getting all the wrinkles out around the bottom of the rail on the ends.
Just take your time and use some old cloth if you have it.
Great video. Could you share how much stretch is needed for a 9foot table? Thanks in advance
1 3/4 for the main stretch. I hope to do a video on a 9' table next month.
Hey brother! Been working on getting these rails redone on this table. My first rail didn't turn out bad but gotta clean up a little bit on the ends by the pocket facings but I think I can straighten it back up. Got the rest of the rails cleaned up of the old glue and gonna glue after work tomorrow (12/29).
On another note. I just now realized after watching your video for the 6th or 7th time here that every mark you make is where you're stretching it to or fitting it to the table! I'm so glad I caught that before we started the table felt.
So just to be clear. On an 8 foot table, you're adding a 1/4" on the end rails and the stretch side of the side rail just on where you are stretching the felt to. And the Anchor side will remain the same because that's not where the stretching will happen. In other words, you're only making it 1 5/8" away from the very end of the felt itself and that's how far each end and the stretch side of the felt will be stretched. And that is all that changes, am I right?
On the added stretch, yes just add 1/4" on the stretch to side and the ends. You are correct, the marks on the top of the cloth get pulled right to the corner of the slate and attached. Good luck.
@@reverendjonas is the 33" and the 33 1/2" the same?
@@kevinbowers512 It's pretty close, that won't change anything too much, but you can add 1/4" to that as well.
@@reverendjonas thanks man
One other quick question, I have 2 rails, one has a spot where a knot was in the wood and it's got a small maybe 1/8th in hole in the top part of the rail, and one also has a large spot that looks like it was right on the edge of a knot. Will those spots effect anything and should I treat them in anyway when gluing the new cushions on?
You make it look easy!
Did it just like you said, worked out perfect.
اكثر من رائع سلمت يداك❤
Hi - Can the same measurements be applied when re-felting an 8 foot table? Great video by the way. And what kind of marker are you using?
You will want to stretch the cloth a bit more. I have not done an 8' in a while but from what I remember 1 1/2" in all 3 directions is the big change.
I got a gallon of the RKC250 6 months ago and love it. Sadly it seems to not be available anymore. Any suggestions?
There will be more. The glue manufacturer changed hands, so we had to get everything transferred to a new way of things. I just got some of the new stuff, so check with your supplier shortly, should be shipping soon.
Championship Invitational is what I can afford, On a bar box what would you suggest as far as stretching measurements?
Thanks so much for sharing this video. It has been really helpful!
Can you recommend an adhesive best for attaching new cushions to rails?
Thanks!
Same adhesive that he uses to attach the cloth works very well
another question. last time i followed this it came out great. thanks for the vid. when you cut out the holes for the bolts for the rail did your cloth loosen a bit in those areas. would it benifit to put a little glue around the holes?
If it's stretched tight and even, the holes cut for the bolts won't affect anything.
Simonis has an id strip viewable with a black-light. Is that only on the play/slick side? i know they put "Simonis" around the edge on the up side. Thanks. Great videos.
I have only looked for it on the play side and assume it is only on the play (smooth) side.
@@reverendjonas Cool. Thanks
nice slick job
Hey Zach. Enjoy watching you work. Is there i tech reason you didn't staple this job? The bed looks like slate. Is there no sub bed? I will be attempting to recover my Olhausen this month but the closer I have come to this type of work is stretching de-icer boots on airplane wings.
I have switched to glue on all tables because I believe it is far superior to glue. It is 100% coverage, and I feel I can stretch tighter and more evenly.
Diamond tables do not use a traditional backed slate like your Olhausen does, so gluing is not completely necessary in your case.
The same stretch pattern and process can be used to staple cloth as shown in the video.
If you have any questions or anything, feel free to ask.
can you apply same principle with worsted accuplay cloth and using staples?
Do you glue the cloth when covering the cushions as well?
Really good video.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.
@@reverendjonas I got my table level today and beeswaxed the seams and holes. Going to attempt the Simonis tomorrow. Are the measurements the same for regular 860?
@@leemoore6521 They are very close. You can use the same numbers in the video.
@@leemoore6521 Let me know how it goes for you.
I have a question, do you know the measurements you should mark on the cloth for an 8 foot table? And thank you, that video was super helpful
I have the same question!
Zach, I'm preparing to do 3 8' tables. I use a duo fast gun with bigger staples normally. What gun do you use and what size staple? Pneumatic I believe.
Also when you seat the feather strip, you don't use a ponding block. What prevents dings in the rails from the mallet?
I use a 3/8 22ga stapler. It's a no brand. I am just using a cheap dead blow mallet. Soft enough not to ding rails.
Well done thanks for sharing. What are your thoughts on pro-form cloth and would it be installed in the same manner? Thanks .
I have only installed it on a couple tables, and it seems ok. As far as longevity goes, I can not say because it was not in a commercial room. It is installed the same way, however the stretch numbers will be different.
The Proline 505 installs almost identical to Simonis, it maybe stretches a tiny bit less but not enough to worry about. It lasts very well.
Great video Zach. I have a couple of 9' Diamond tables I'll need to recover with Simonis 860HR by the end of the year. I think I'll try your method.
Thank you 👍
Great! Let me know how it turns out!
@@reverendjonas will do
which one is it in the pocket anchor side 13/16 or 5/8?
Good question. Which side uses which measurement? Assuming there's a good reason; why are they different to begin with?
Same numbers for a 9'? Thanks
very good work
So you stretch it 1 3/8ths in every direction or just three three directions? I am not sure why the anchor side seems to be treated differentially in some instances. The cloth does need to end up square.
Yes the cloth is stretched 1 3/8 in 3 directions so it is stretched twice as long as wide. The anchor side is treated slightly different to allow the center pocket to be closed correctly. The cloth ends up stretched square.
@@reverendjonas Thank you so much. this is the one place that actually mentions how much to stretch the fabric. It seems most people just do it by feel.
Ah, so I guess you must stretch shortways specifically for the middle pockets then? Everyone else is saying to do it lengthways, but you do it this way to give yourself a little extra slack in the middle pockets?
@@wisnoskij Yes. I like to put a number on it. Not only does it assure you are getting it straight and square, but when you are on the 8th table for the day, you know it will be as tight as the first even when you are worn out and ready to go home.
What do you use for cutting the rail cushion when replacing them
I use a sharp knife, or razor blade then finish up with a sanding disk on a miter saw.
Would this method be any different for the 3/4” slate on a valley?
Why were my side pockets so tight evem though I left 13/16 on both sides of the pocket? I had a very hard time and had to pull so hard to get the cloth to sit flat on slate.
Hard to say. Try a bit more slack next time.
One quick question about the side pocket relief, my assumption is the anchor side gets the 13/16" and the side you pull gets the 5/8"? Or do I have that backward? Awesome video by the way.
That is correct. The anchor side is 13/16"
@@reverendjonas I should've kept reading, this answers my question above @gelcarpio. But, what is the reason the side pockets are different though?
Having one side different than the other doesn't screw up the cloth being square?? Assuming it's not a concern. This method looks legit. Can't wait to try it.
How long do you wait when gluing on the anchor side ? If you do wait
It's a few minutes. I really don't time it but as soon as I roll it all out on the while table the anchor side is ready to set.
Hi zach why are not the same masseur for sides pockets slack?
Zach, do you happen to have the measurements needed for an 8' table? I love the explanation and drawing of the measurements and layout of the anchor/ pull points. This is the method I will be trying along with the RKC250 adhesive.
Add 1/4, so side stretch would be 1 5/8 and ends would be the same. I don't have a drawing of the layout.
Hi Zack What kind of pen are you using - Thanks.
It is a soap stone. Usually used for marking steel for cutting/welding.
Great Job!
Thanks Pat!
Hi again Zach. I have another question for you. I am re clothing my 8 foot table with Simonis 860 and I only have 3M 77 spray adhesive. I have read that you do not recommend that glue but it is all I have. Can I spray the anchor side and affix that side, then wait a day or two for it to fully cure to continue with the process. I am in no hurry to get this done. I just want the best possible outcome. It is just me doing it so I have no extra set of hands but what I do have is a bunch of clamps that may/can help me with the process. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, I may have to kidnap you , drive you to Ohio , bribe you with a beer or two, and beg you to help me. Thank you! 😊
It's not about the time, it's the shear strength. Even applied correctly (spraying both slate and cloth) and letting the solvents flash off, spray 77 just doesn't have enough hold for how much the cloth needs to be stretched. I have had spray glue fail on me days after installing. That is why I switched to a roll on type contact adhesive for ALL cloth installations.
If I was closer I would love to come give you a hand.
Care to come to Vancouver island 😅
two questions. 1. Are you getting tiger stripes when your done? 2. Is the cloth loose after a month or so?
I get no tiger stripes at all using this technique. The cloth does not get loose at all a month or year or 3 years after installing with a stretch index and glue.
I work recovering tables at large pool halls and have never had a complaint about loose cloth.
I have used many methods of installing cloth and I really think this is the best way to install cloth.
Zach! Nice video you need to put a link to your cash app on here for donations I feel like I owe you at least $10 because I’ve watched your Ridgeback video your covering rails with Simonis video and now this. I just found out yesterday the original 3M super 77 is no longer available anywhere it’s all the low VOC which won’t hold anything, going to have to switch to roll-on glue.
Once you get comfortable with the roll on glue process, you will never look back. It's much cleaner, no over spray, holds much better, and 10 years from now the glue cleans off the slate much easier than spray glue.
Someone tried to tell me you are supposed to dampen the cloth before applying so it tightens up when it dries. Is that BS?
Absolute BS.
What do you think about using 3M Super 77 Glue?
It does not have the strength to hold the cloth when pulling as tight as you need to when installing Simonis properly. Spray 77 has its place, but not for installing bed cloth. I use it when recovering Valley type bar-box rails.
any opinion on the 3M #10 yellow adhesive vs the RKC250 ? i have been buying the 3M by the quart. how is shelf life after opening on the RKC250 ? i do about 10 tables a year and try to get it out of a single quart. some times i have to open second quart and it sits a year after opening. your thoughts on one vs the other?
I have used the 3m10 for years before the RKC. Both work very well. I have switched to the RKC 100% now because I think the shelf life is better. It is thinner and it doesn't seem to separate the solids out as much as the 3M10 does. I also feel like I can use less RKC to get the job done, so overall saves me a few bucks.
What type of roller cover are you using for your installs?
@@reverendjonas i switched to 3m #10 after they switched the formula on the 77 spray. i have been using a disposable brush and painting directly from can and wiping drips with the edge of the can. post covid i have been doing tables less often and haven't bridged over to using a roller yet. i rewatch your vids and keep pondering trying your methods. thank you for putting out the content.
@@gosnellktn GO GET A ROLLER AND TRAY! Its sooooo much faster, easier, cleaner to use a roller. I get 9" - 3/16 nap roller covers and cut them down to 3" an use a silicone baking pan liner for a tray most of the time.
@@reverendjonas my original concern was waste. my first quart got kicked over on site. so my efforts to not waste were for not. i have to mail order the glue, now i have a spare quart. i will get a roller and give it a try.
@@reverendjonas just ordered the RKC250 lets see if Diamond will ship to Alaska. In the past i have struck out with most shippers on shipping the glue to me. fingers crossed.
Where are you located ?
Idaho. I do travel for tables tho. This video was at Main Street in Mesa, AZ.
Hello zach. For a valley 7 foot are the same measures? Thanks
No they are not the same. It has bee a long time since I have done Simonis on a valley, but you will need to put less slack in the side pockets and the rest should be pretty close.
@@reverendjonas thanks I appreciate it. Can I use the cement king cobra to install cushions ?
@@JoseEspinoza-pt2il Yes. It is a very good contact cement for facings and cushions. If you are replacing valley cushions, look at Ridgeback rails. They are a bolt on replacement that really improve the playability of your table.
@@reverendjonas I bought penguin pro rail but some thing don't feel good I'm going to put my old set of ridgeback but I need new cushions I'm thinking to buy artemis k66 to replace them should be good options? Or can you recommen any good cushions thanks
@@JoseEspinoza-pt2il Artemis are VERY good cushions. I have installed hundreds of sets of those.
Hello how long takes the cement to be ready
It is quick. I don't "wait" for the glue to be ready. I roll it out on the slate, then roll the cloth, and as soon as I'm done, I stick it.
@@reverendjonas ok thanks can I use the cement to cover my valley rails?
@@JoseEspinoza-pt2il th-cam.com/video/FbyssrhjBeo/w-d-xo.html watch that video. I use spray glue for those type of rails.
@@reverendjonas thanks zach 👍
@@reverendjonas one more question zach the slate on valley is not thick like the diamond should I put more on top or down? Or is enough only on the side
nice work
Thank you Bob.
Are the measurements for stretching different if it's a 9-foot
Yes they are. On a 9' with Simonis 860HR Tour Blue I usually stretch the side to side and ends 1 3/4". The pocket relief is the same at 13/16" and 5/8". I do not have a number for the stretch length from the side pocket to the corner, I seem to get too many different results when trying to put a number to that one.
@@reverendjonas thanks for the info I'm trying to figure out the side pocket relief you measure at 13/16 pass the side pocket and then when you glue you line that mark up with the edge? If that's the case why isn't there a bubble down the center of the table or am I thinking about this the wrong way I'm confused with the side pocket marks
And why is there two different measurements for the side pocket relief
@@reverendjonas also how hard you tug on the cloth for those first few stretches I'm going to be doing this myself for the first time it looks like you're putting a lot of force on it but I don't want to baby it either
@@anthonyvallario7561 There will be a "bubble" along the center of the table when you put the slack in the side pockets. That will go away as soon as you pull the cloth on the ends of the table. The slack needs to be there in the side pockets so you have enough cloth to cover the vertical edge of slate in the pocket.
Never saw any one use their bare hands to smear and apply a contact adhesive before. ... interesting.
Just fast and easy. The roller won't fit in there, and I'm too cheap to buy little brushes for every table. Once the glue flashes off the solvents, it balls up and rolls off the fingers easy.
Zach do you have similar drawings or measurements for a 8 foot table? Thanks in advance.
I do not have any dimensions for an 8'. But about another 1/4 inch stretch side to side and 1/4 inch both ends should work. Leave the side pocket slack the same.
@@reverendjonas Thank you.
@@reverendjonas I have a quart of RKC250 on the way. In the mean time I will mark my cloth. Just so I'm not confusing what your saying should I make the ends and stretch side line at 1 1/8" or 1 5/8" instead of 1 3/8" ? I'm not sure if I'm adding or subtracting that 1/4".
@@tooncesc Add 1/4, so side stretch would be 1 5/8 and ends would be the same. Good luck, let me know how it turns out.
@@reverendjonas For my first attempt using glue I am very happy with the results. Nice and tight. I also used the glue to put new rail rubber on and it worked great. I bet I have enough left to do 3 more tables. Thanks again for making a great video.
How much do you charge??$$
Making the measurement and stuff in my opinion is a waste of time . It would be more safe and faster if you stick one side , then the opposite side , after you done two opposite sides wait for the sticker to be dry good enough and finish with the other two sides . That's how I do it .
The marking is done to ensure the cloth is stretched to the correct tension, and to make sure the cloth is stretched twice as long as it is wide.
Let's see a video of how "you do it".....
No not this way. To much time it will take
Championship Invitational is what I can afford, On a bar box what would you suggest as far as stretching measurements?