Apart from the iconic Mclaren F1 road car Gordon Murray will always mean Brabham to me. The BT52 will always be the most beautiful F1 car ever designed!
The BT55 was an epic failure, it destroyed Brabham and Murray's F1 career. Theres even a letter to McLaren leadership (Dennis/Whitnarsh) denouncing the lies spread by Murray and published in the book MP4/4 a technical appraisal. Gordon Murray had no hand or input in the development of the MP4/4 neither the MP4/5.
100% correct. That letter was signed by every single person that worked on the design of the MP4/4 that was still employed at McLaren in 1990. Nichols did not sign it because he was not at McLaren. So basically, with the exception of Nichols, every engineer, draftsman, technician, machinist, fabricators and mechanic that worked on the MP4/4 sighed a letter saying Gordon Murray is a liar.
Did you notice how the interview left out the result of that letter being discussed, and did not show the opinions of the other who helped create the MP4-4 and they did NOT sign it,,,, there over 50 lies in that video.
@@swindonbadger who are these "others" that you claim have contrary opinions? There were 17 people on the MP4/4 development team. SEVENTEEN. 15 of them signed the letter! So that means TWO people did not sign the letter. One of them was Nichols. Nichols did not, because when the letter was written, he was employed at Ferrari, and could not sign a letter directed to internal McLaren management. But he of course has stated he would have signed it had he still been at McLaren. He also contributed to the writing of the letter even though he did not sign it. This leaves ONE person of the 17 who did not call Murray a liar. That person likely was also no longer employed at McLaren, which is why he also did not sign the letter. In other words, there are NO OTHER OPINIONS. The unanimous opinion is that Murray is a liar. So you have every single person who worked on the design team saying Murray is a liar, and Murray saying that those 17 people are all lying about him? LOL. Sorry, but when one person says one thing, and everyone else says something else, that one person usually has psychological issues. Even Ian Bamsey has backtracked and said "sorry....Murray told me all these lies...I just quoted him". Everyone knows Murray is a liar with regards to the MP4/4. You must be one of the people who either bought one of Murray's cars, or invested in his company...LOL.
iStream proves how much of a forward thinker Gordon is. I can only hope South Africa tries to take advantage of this potentially game changing technology to swift make progress over here.
I just wish that T.25 made it into production. It would've been the only car from Murray that I could afford, and T.27 would be the perfect daily for me. 😢
Since according to Steve Nicols, Gordon Murray was not a "hands on" type of a designer, I would venture a theory that the last Brabham he was credited for designing was as much his work as the MP4/4.
@@dennymcclure6711 Not at Mclaren. He was more into management by then. He himself said before that 20 years of being in F1 and he needed a change. Of course the BT55 failure was not what really cost him his career -- Bernie was planning to wind down Brabham and move on to take the throne. But at Brabham he has spoken about how when he joined F1, a single guy sometimes had to design it all. It's true though he had little to do with the design of the MP4/4, something that became clear after listening to Nichols and Co.
@@dennymcclure6711 Gordon's strengths are his ability to work with partners. I am sure that in the early days of F1 hands on was the only way, but Gordon eventually became more of a chief technical officer kind of designer with his partners actually doing most of the ground work. His actual expertise lies in packaging and lightweight design. Even for the T50 and T33, he has a whole host of partners, mostly British to help him with the nitty gritty. Steve Nichols on the other hand was not just the chief designer at Mclaren, but he was also a race engineer for Prost and Senna and he has a comprehensive grasp of overall packaging and creating a culture of success. So it's only natural he was very hands down. If there's someone who's totally hands on, it's Koenigsegg. Those guys do nearly everything themselves. They do work with partners like Rimac, but then they decide they can do stuff their own way, and proceed to do it in house next time.
@@claudiusconruton2720 Cool description. I don't disagree based on a fact that he DID TRY to own the legend of the conquering MP4/4 even though somebody else deserved the credit. That is LOW character. Coke bottle shape was the key element of MP4-4 and was invented/implemented by Barnard and Nichols collaboration. Gordon Murray's Brabham BT55 car that was claimed to be the basis for MP4-4 concept, was NOT a coke bottle design and Nichols had it nearly finished by the time Gordon Murray arrived at Woking.
Cmon. We know the story of the mp4/4 and 5 development was down to Steve Nichols and was done before Murray arrived. Need to stop pedalling these myths and give credit where it is due.
5:55 is utter nonsense. McLaren did not suddenly learn that getting the car low was important from Murray. The MP4/3 was just as low, relative to its engine package. When McLaren switched to the Honda, they re-designed the car around the new engine. The Honda, with the Tilton clutch, had a dramatically shorter distance from CL to low point. THAT is what made the MP4/4 lower, not "input from Murray". Why on earth would McLaren copy ANYTHING from the AWFUL BT55. It was so bad that it ended Murray's career as a designer, and killed the team itself. . If Murray had not provided all that erroneous info for Ian Bamsey's book, he could have lied much more credibly about being the designer of the MP4/4. But that book, with Murray as its sole source, shows that Murray could not even get the basic details of the MP4/4 correct. Get the Haynes MP4/4 book, which was written with direct input from McLaren. Then get the Ian Bamsey book, based on Gordon Murray's input. Then "grade" Bamsey's (Murray's) book for accuracy. Do it yourself. You will see Murray is clueless about the MP4/4. It is clear he was not the designer, and tried to take credit for the greatest F1 car ever to boost his later business ventures.
Of course Murray gets irate. That is what nut jobs with psychological issues do when you challenge their self delusions. Every single person who worked on the design team will agree that Murray had nothing to do with the MP4/4. There are 17 of them. So they are ALL lying, and Murray is the one telling the truth? LOL. Murray has evolved from an engineer to a salesmen. Take that how you want.
Leaving out the Brabham BT-42 is inexcusable, in fact it should have been the first one on the list, because it was GM's first truly successful F1 project when he was still quite young, and it set the standard for all his subsequent cars. The BT-55, for all the reasons mentioned on this clip, was not, by any means, as deserving or relevant as the BT-42 to be here as one of Murray's 10 best cars. And the fan car, as relevant as it was historically, was a side-show freak; it was cheating, Murray knew that, and so did Bernie.
Can you pick a favourite?
Brabham BT52
F1 LM
Mercedes SLR McLaren is just love
f1
Gordon murray is to my eyes the greatest engineer in automobile's history
Who's the greatest engineer according to your nose?
@@philalan6721 Whoever invented those mint tree dangly things
@@philalan6721 Wright brothers
Whoever invented the soap
@@philalan6721 😂😂😂
I love the Brabhams. Murray with Piquet and BMW - never ever it came better together…. 🙌👌
The GMA T.50 flat out engine screech brings me back to the hair raising F1 V10s of the aughts. Damn...
Gordon Murray's Masterpieces! ✨
Apart from the iconic Mclaren F1 road car Gordon Murray will always mean Brabham to me. The BT52 will always be the most beautiful F1 car ever designed!
So many amazing cars from one mind!m, just a genius and thinks outside the box
Of all Gordon Murray's terrific, definitive road cars, the one I want most is the least expensive by far -- the Rocket.
That will be Chris Craft's Rocket then.
Last month, Japan's F1 magazine
'GP Car Story' featured Brabham BT55.
So many dream cars growing up,
still doing it.
The SLR is a stunning car. Monumental monster.
The BT55 was an epic failure, it destroyed Brabham and Murray's F1 career. Theres even a letter to McLaren leadership (Dennis/Whitnarsh) denouncing the lies spread by Murray and published in the book MP4/4 a technical appraisal. Gordon Murray had no hand or input in the development of the MP4/4 neither the MP4/5.
I'm glad someone has made these corrections Steve nicoles designed the mp4/4
100% correct. That letter was signed by every single person that worked on the design of the MP4/4 that was still employed at McLaren in 1990. Nichols did not sign it because he was not at McLaren. So basically, with the exception of Nichols, every engineer, draftsman, technician, machinist, fabricators and mechanic that worked on the MP4/4 sighed a letter saying Gordon Murray is a liar.
From France with passion and respect ✌🏼🇨🇵😎
( From a Honda Fan 😉)
Shame that there is no mention of the OX. Typical of Gordon Murray's genius, this ungainly looking contraption was a very clever but simple design!
He is a legend.
I was in love for the BT55, maybe the worst for competition but simply BELLISSIMA! (R.I.P Elio).
I'm apologyze for my english.
From what I have just learned, Murray contributed almost nothing to the MP4-4. Steve Nichols and Honda deserve all the main credit.
Did you notice how the interview left out the result of that letter being discussed, and did not show the opinions of the other who helped create the MP4-4 and they did NOT sign it,,,, there over 50 lies in that video.
@@swindonbadger Sorry bro, that's just not true. Murray had virtually nothing to do with the design of the mp4-4. This has been proven.
@@swindonbadger who are these "others" that you claim have contrary opinions? There were 17 people on the MP4/4 development team. SEVENTEEN. 15 of them signed the letter! So that means TWO people did not sign the letter. One of them was Nichols. Nichols did not, because when the letter was written, he was employed at Ferrari, and could not sign a letter directed to internal McLaren management. But he of course has stated he would have signed it had he still been at McLaren. He also contributed to the writing of the letter even though he did not sign it. This leaves ONE person of the 17 who did not call Murray a liar. That person likely was also no longer employed at McLaren, which is why he also did not sign the letter. In other words, there are NO OTHER OPINIONS. The unanimous opinion is that Murray is a liar. So you have every single person who worked on the design team saying Murray is a liar, and Murray saying that those 17 people are all lying about him? LOL. Sorry, but when one person says one thing, and everyone else says something else, that one person usually has psychological issues. Even Ian Bamsey has backtracked and said "sorry....Murray told me all these lies...I just quoted him". Everyone knows Murray is a liar with regards to the MP4/4. You must be one of the people who either bought one of Murray's cars, or invested in his company...LOL.
BT44/B was,imo,one of Murray's best F1 designs
I am optimistically waiting for the very affordable lower end model of Gordon's GMA so I can trade in my top of the range Hyundai for one.
Sounds like a solid plan.
iStream proves how much of a forward thinker Gordon is. I can only hope South Africa tries to take advantage of this potentially game changing technology to swift make progress over here.
Can't wait to see what the GMA T.43 is like.
I am such a gordon murray FAN boy 😅
3:52 imagine that outfit in today's F1 😅
11,500 rpm in a road car, that T50 is mental
That T.50 is shaping up to be amazing.
@6:36 anyone else noticed that the rear directional tires are on the wrong side of the car?
12:06 the wiper blade is taking off
I just wish that T.25 made it into production. It would've been the only car from Murray that I could afford, and T.27 would be the perfect daily for me. 😢
Gordon Murray the goat
I still like the idea of a T25.
🌴😎💯
GMA T.50s Niki Lauda
'63 Corvette Grand Sport
Jaguar E Type Lightweight
@@willnzsurf Alfa Romeo T33 Stradale
@@pashakdescilly7517 🤙in my top 5😹
@@willnzsurf your handle suggests you are a New Zealander...
Your other two 'top 5' cars?
@@pashakdescilly7517 for the other two, as daily drivers, I'd have a 1989-95 Toyota Hilux DoubleCab Truck & a 2005 Mitsubishi EVO IX Wagon.
As we all know Gordon Murray had no hand or input in the development of the MP4/4 neither the MP4/5.
I’d add a Chevy corvette!
Gordon Murray is the John Browning of cars, and you can't change my mind.
Since according to Steve Nicols, Gordon Murray was not a "hands on" type of a designer, I would venture a theory that the last Brabham he was credited for designing was as much his work as the MP4/4.
Interesting concept…one worth more exploring
@@dennymcclure6711 Not at Mclaren. He was more into management by then. He himself said before that 20 years of being in F1 and he needed a change. Of course the BT55 failure was not what really cost him his career -- Bernie was planning to wind down Brabham and move on to take the throne. But at Brabham he has spoken about how when he joined F1, a single guy sometimes had to design it all. It's true though he had little to do with the design of the MP4/4, something that became clear after listening to Nichols and Co.
@@dennymcclure6711 Gordon's strengths are his ability to work with partners. I am sure that in the early days of F1 hands on was the only way, but Gordon eventually became more of a chief technical officer kind of designer with his partners actually doing most of the ground work. His actual expertise lies in packaging and lightweight design. Even for the T50 and T33, he has a whole host of partners, mostly British to help him with the nitty gritty.
Steve Nichols on the other hand was not just the chief designer at Mclaren, but he was also a race engineer for Prost and Senna and he has a comprehensive grasp of overall packaging and creating a culture of success. So it's only natural he was very hands down.
If there's someone who's totally hands on, it's Koenigsegg. Those guys do nearly everything themselves. They do work with partners like Rimac, but then they decide they can do stuff their own way, and proceed to do it in house next time.
Gorden Murray was the
world's most expensive tea girl and drawing office cleaner if you listen to Steve Nichols!
@@claudiusconruton2720 Cool description. I don't disagree based on a fact that he DID TRY to own the legend of the conquering MP4/4 even though somebody else deserved the credit. That is LOW character. Coke bottle shape was the key element of MP4-4 and was invented/implemented by Barnard and Nichols collaboration. Gordon Murray's Brabham BT55 car that was claimed to be the basis for MP4-4 concept, was NOT a coke bottle design and Nichols had it nearly finished by the time Gordon Murray arrived at Woking.
MP4/4 was an evolution of the MP4/3 - not the BT55.
Gordon Murray…sincerely overrated car designer- credit never given to his co-designers…do some research on the MP4/4…
Cmon. We know the story of the mp4/4 and 5 development was down to Steve Nichols and was done before Murray arrived. Need to stop pedalling these myths and give credit where it is due.
5:55 is utter nonsense. McLaren did not suddenly learn that getting the car low was important from Murray. The MP4/3 was just as low, relative to its engine package. When McLaren switched to the Honda, they re-designed the car around the new engine. The Honda, with the Tilton clutch, had a dramatically shorter distance from CL to low point. THAT is what made the MP4/4 lower, not "input from Murray". Why on earth would McLaren copy ANYTHING from the AWFUL BT55. It was so bad that it ended Murray's career as a designer, and killed the team itself.
.
If Murray had not provided all that erroneous info for Ian Bamsey's book, he could have lied much more credibly about being the designer of the MP4/4. But that book, with Murray as its sole source, shows that Murray could not even get the basic details of the MP4/4 correct. Get the Haynes MP4/4 book, which was written with direct input from McLaren. Then get the Ian Bamsey book, based on Gordon Murray's input. Then "grade" Bamsey's (Murray's) book for accuracy. Do it yourself. You will see Murray is clueless about the MP4/4. It is clear he was not the designer, and tried to take credit for the greatest F1 car ever to boost his later business ventures.
Like anything is coming close to the F1...
Mp4/4 not a gordon murray design??? I wouldnt say that to him. When steve nichols takes credit for it, he gets rather irate
Of course Murray gets irate. That is what nut jobs with psychological issues do when you challenge their self delusions. Every single person who worked on the design team will agree that Murray had nothing to do with the MP4/4. There are 17 of them. So they are ALL lying, and Murray is the one telling the truth? LOL. Murray has evolved from an engineer to a salesmen. Take that how you want.
The greatest car designer the world has ever known
Interesting to compare him to Adrian Newey and Colin Chapman. Different eras but both in their way ground breaking designers and more successful in F1
Leaving out the Brabham BT-42 is inexcusable, in fact it should have been the first one on the list, because it was GM's first truly successful F1 project when he was still quite young, and it set the standard for all his subsequent cars. The BT-55, for all the reasons mentioned on this clip, was not, by any means, as deserving or relevant as the BT-42 to be here as one of Murray's 10 best cars. And the fan car, as relevant as it was historically, was a side-show freak; it was cheating, Murray knew that, and so did Bernie.
Dude that's like the only way to innovate in F1. Between the rules.
The BT55 was rubbish and he had nothing to do with the MP4/4.