So I'm full of shit? Well yeah not the best ever, I'm impressed by the features and ease of bleeding and quality for the price I got my second set of LH4 a couple days ago from S4 suspension at 499$ CDN so I didn't pay shipping for customs and duties this time, like when nobody wanted these 😅 Anyway my favorite ever are the code RSC but minus the DOT hassle, maybe the Cura but I'd have to retry them it's been awhile.
Dale I just want to say, I have been so enjoying this brake series you’ve been doing. They are so well flushed out. Please know the effort you put into these vids is well worth it from a viewership prospective!
i have been running the lh4 on my scor 4060 z ebike well over a year with zero problems , they have never moved on my carbon bars , i got them direct from lewis before they came on the market for 239 bucks !! i love them i have only bled them once and mine came with the silver braided lines
I pains me to see the Hayes A4s in purgatory at the bottom of the list waiting on scores. Not that I have experience (aside from the A4s) with brakes outside of Sram and Shimano offerings, but the A4s have been completely maintenance free, super reliable and fantastic performers for me. While I don't have daily access to terrain that can properly find their limits, I'm extremely grateful to have them on my bike every time I head out on a weekend trip to the mountains where they can be put to proper use.
i’ve been riding them for the better part of a year, and i’ll admit they have their ups and their downs, god i hate the lever body clamp, but more importantly they were my primary brake for my dh bike, where a full top to bottom laps at my local park is 1800ft usually 16-20 minutes of pure chaos, and they consistently do fantastic. like dale mentioned it is a lot of rider preference and i love them and would recommend them…just run the glafer pads, more consistent bite point and either the hayes 203 rotors or the sram H2S for the A4😉
I have had the same experience with my Hayes. While my dhr evos leaked all over my pads both times I've bleed them, my Hayes have worked flawlessly and are always super easy to bleed ant maintain. The lever feel of the Hayes is also far and away the best I've ever felt on any brake
@@owenjohnson9174I also run the red galfer pads with magura mdrp discs and I have found that they are incredibly silent and strong. Hugely recommended.
got LH4s few days ago. they ship them with that new 2 part clamp, so no rotating issue. and those adjusters for reach and bite point works just fine, dont have to use pliers as you did.
Nothing that surprise me. I knew they would turn out to be decent brakes, so a good bang for your buck. At this point I'd still wait and see what 2nd iteration will be like, because if they manage to smooth out the few flaws and just carry over what is good with the 1st iteration, it's worth the wait in my mind.
I may or may not be testing the new LHP Lever with LHT caliper and so far it is amazing. The semi metallic pads change the feeling of the system entirely, it has an insane amount of power compared to the full metallic pad.
Cracked open the master cylinders on a pair of LH4 to replace the seals on the pistons because the bite point had gotten inconsistent. Downsides: the internals (and parts) didn't QUITE match the schematics/exploded diagram that Lewis sent us (rolling improvements, maybe), and disassembly required a 1.3mm hex! Had to go out and buy a bit kit specifically for this task. Upsides: the manufacturing quality is absolutely up there with the best; the user (brakes weren't mine) said that the braking performance was excellent... when they were working properly, that is; Lewis aftersales support and service was responsive and helpful. I hope they do well and continue to give the big brake boys some food for thought. EDIT: we tried the seal replacement method because that was what Lewis recommended. On opening up the master cylinder, the seals and piston design didn’t match what their exploded drawing was showing, so I made the call to just bleed and reassemble instead of replacing it with the new seals they had sent. No complaints from the user so far, but the bike is coming in again later this week so I will report back!
My shop had a set of LH4's and hooked me up so we could get a good review in. For science. I live in Calgary and mostly ride in Alberta, interior BC (Golden, Revelstoke, Panorama, etc), but also managed to get some Kamloops and Squamish in as well over the summer. I'm 6'4 and riding weight is around 270lbs, so put any brakes I use to the test. I haven't had any issues with them at all. They've been consistent, have lots of modulation and more than enough power to manage speed and stop me (even on trails like Dead Dog). My bite point and reach adjusters spin freely and I haven't needed pliers to mess around with them. Lever feel is great. I have a great shop who's willing to support if there are any issues, which is awesome. The real question will be long term reliability and access to parts if something needs replacing. So far, zero regrets getting them.
Great detailed review. Not something I'm about to run out and buy given I'm running Shimano MT-400 with 6100 levers and am happy with them but always fun to bike geek on something that looks super cool and controversial. As always, one of the best bike reviews in any media. Well done and keep up the great work.
Out of curiosity, I watched Lewis's bleeding video last week and I can confirm that it is quite detailed and thorough. It reminded me one Park Tools video on the bleeding of Shimano brakes in which Calvin went way over the regular procedures that us mere mortals do under bleeding.
Park Tool still show gravity bleed and pushing dirty fluid up through the lever side, instead of sucking it out through where most dirt comes from, which is the caliper. In my mind you should start by sucking out the dirty fluid first through the caliper, and then fill up with fresh fluid and start the actual bleed process when all the fluid is fresh. Gravity bleed is a joke and very outdated. I feel Park Tool try to stay in line with what certain brands recommend, instead of following what seems more reasonable. You can bleed Shimano brekas the SRAM way just by choosing to do so, and I wish Shimano would update themself on this area as well as making threads inside the bleedport for a more secure bleed.
@@a8f235 Given how many brands and vendors showcase this method simply means that there is likely no measurable difference in which direction to push the fluid. Yeah, in theory there could be dirt there and getting rid of it kinda makes sense as a hypothesis. But is there really any reliably *measurable* difference? And speaking of dirt, does it make a difference where it gets pushed first if in the end its gets purged? Let's not forget that the bleeding process is primarily meant to evacuate air bubbles. If someone has serious dirt and water in their brake lines, maybe it is too late to reason about in which direction the filth should be pushed. They likely have more serious problems on their hands, which require a caliper rebuild with consequent bleeding to fill in the system again.
@@a8f235 And by the way, I always thought that *gravity* bleed means that the old fluid is evacuated from the bottom, being driven there by gravity. I.e., that's the traditional Shimano method. And forcing the old fluid to leave from the top at the caliper by using a syringe at the bottom works against gravity. But maybe my interpretation is wrong.
@@GrigoryRechistov By relying on gravity you have no control over what you hopefully want to achieve(removal of air bubbles) so how do you know there are no airbubbles left... With a syringe you have direct control over what you want to achieve, which drastically increase your chances of removing as much as possible. You should want to probe the system instead of scratching your head hoping for a miracle. How do you even troubleshoot a gravitybleed? In regards to your way of thinking that amount of brands(people) doing something equals more right is completely wrong, because truth doesn't care who or how many believe in it. Truth is its own entity, so I couldn't care less how many people follow something if I personally believe it is wrong. There is a good reason why there are so many videos about brake bleeds and what ever else, simply because the industry cannot make up its mind about something that should be easy for people who have been working within the industry for so long. Park Tool produce a lot of good tools(and I do own a lot of it myself) but in certain areas they can feel a bit outdated. Obviously they have got a lot of proper knowledge, so I have no intention of throwing them completely under the bus as I've mentioned I do own lots of their tools and intend to keep using them for good reason. I'm just tired of seeing brake bleed videos surfacing every spring, like how many ways of doing this is there, really... The industry need to make up its mind. PS: About contaminated brake fluid, it's as simple as why compromise the lever side of things if you don't have to, because it is a choice to push the fluid out the top or you push it out the bottom. It's the same as when I store my bike I always engage the lowest gear so the gearcable will be slack. Why have constant tension on it if you don't have to(My bike will be stored for at least 7 months at a time because of winter). It's just certain things at least I feel is good practice, because then you know you have cared about something which you can put into something else as well.
@@a8f235 Many good points I agree with. Totally agree that if many people do something, that does not mean that it is a right thing to do. > how do you know there are no airbubbles left... Exactly, and in fact Park Tools' video for Shimano brakes has them forcing the oil in both directions at separate steps, and then rotating the lever into two ±45° positions to hunt for even more bubbles. A crazy involved process. Still, I have a feeling that the pushing order does not matter that much. Like, is it even proven that all dirt that comes in is heavier than oil? If there is some dirt that is lighter than oil, it will float up anyway, and in this case pushing it down would be the wrong thing. And yes, my brakes, when I bleed them, often vomit out nasty brown shit :-)
Bravo Dale for the combination of objective and up-front subjective analysis + voicing an actual opinion. Love the channel and proper bike nerd deep dive. The polar opposite of what is most commonplace on TH-cam MTB journalism (generally either channels full of opinions with no actual data/science to back it up or zero-opinion Sesame Street 2-dimensional zero substance dialogue - looking at you GMBN).
I love this series! I'm sure you've already heard, but just a heads up that there is a grub screw on the reach adjust knob that is used to lock your reach in place. That probably just needs to be loosened in order to fix your need for pliers. Also, I throw my little adjustment Allen knob thing under my fork top screw cap. I keep it in the little plastic bag it came with and it doesn't rattle around at all!
I have the LV4 (bought them at their Taobao shop. Bought 2 pairs, the first one at the end of 2023 but the bike where they were installed got stolen in January... Bought the other pair in May and been using them since. Had no issues with the reach adjustment dial on both of the pairs but did have issues with the clamp on the first pair. On the second pair, they give me the new clamp but seems like you have the old one. Their new clamp is very similar to Trickstuff's new clamp (what a coincidence). Another thing, i have the silver model and one of the calipers came slightly shinier than the other parts for some reason... It's not an issue at all but I noticed that. Other than that, they have been really good so far. Best brakes i ever had and hope they'll last long :)
Another great review! Informative and entertaining as always. As someone who owns both Direttissima and Piccola HD brakes, I would like to point out that at some point Trickstuff changed the C42 caliper to take the same pads as SRAM Codes/ Guides. The current sets no use the Hope E4/ Shimano pads.
I love your brake review series so far! I see you have quite a few other brakes on your list as shown in the video, but I don't see any actual videos on them, do you have any articles posted for those other reviews?
For everything in the table, I have scripts written up for complete videos but haven't had the time to film and edit them. Hopefully I'll be able to do so eventually, but otherwise they will remain on the list as comparison references only, haha.
Been waiting for this review, thanks for your take! Only a couple weeks left in the season for me before a long winter, so I have many months to make my final decision. I'm hoping the next gen Lewis brake becomes available from S4 during that time as now that's the model that interests me most. It also looks like new Saint will actually release by the spring as well which is another strong contender. New Saint will likely be double the price of Lewis though, so they'll need to be something special.
18:17 I thought that was intended for extra grip on the lever. That's what I've seen on Instagram. I've messaged Lewis about holes in the lever for grip, I was told they did not do it, to not weaken the lever, but they told me they will do it, but not sure if they will make indents or holes. but later months later I saw people posting pictures with the tape shown here on the lever. 19:22 Good idea to implement this. I forgot when I asked them about it but I asked them when ever I saw their brakes first, but this confirms they were actually worked on this. But it seems like they worked on it before i asked them about it. But I think it's strange they did not implement it. But if they weren't lying in the reply I got they might do it, they wrote they will. 18:24 brake clamp moving, is unacceptable.
Interesting! Thanks as always for the deep dive. I need to go find your XTR review to find why the reliability of the 9120 was so low. I've had multiple sets of the older XTR 2 pistons that I move from bike to bike for over a decade and only had one lever seal fail. Was considering a set of Trinity's but the order process is a joke, and I found a set of 9120s for half your MSRP, so I am running them now and will compare to my old sets. I really prefer the levers of Shimano, but hate the no rebuild/repair policy they have on so much of their stuff. Cura's are pretty good too if you ever get around to them.
I have the script done for the XTR video... But haven't gotten around to filming it yet. The tl;dr is that I've managed to make just about every bit of those brakes fail over time.
@@kingflynxi9420 thats thanks. good to know. I checked out a couple yt reviews but no mention of that issue. Is that master seal an ez fix? One reviewer mentioned he'd probably buy the hayes dominions because theyre almost half the price but both the hope and hayes are quite powerful and both have a light lever pull feeling. Any thoughts on hayes vs hope e4 v4?
Good review I am (almost) considering replacing my SLX brakes to try these out! :) One thing to note: I don't know if its a good idea to NOT back off the deadstroke adjust screw completely during a bleed. I believe not doing so will prevent some fluid movement and if there is air trapped in that chamber, it might not be released during the bleed process. I believe both SRAM and Shimano suggest winding the screw all the way out during the bleed for this reason. Perhaps what you did in your video is the best way to get a minimal deadstroke: plan for a shakedown ride after a bleed to prevent the issue #1 that you had.
As always, very nice and complete video, can't wait to see the maximas to have a direct comparison with the Trinity, and next year with the Hopes V4 ( hopefully v4 ). from my almost non existent experience with lewis if not a lever squeeze, the lht are really light so i was expecting the lh4 to be the same, but i was wrong apparently
Really love the design on the nebula. Would match quite nicely my Dreadnought v1 deep space nine frame. This thing is though, that these brakes cost around 400-420€ here in Germany. That's basically the same price as a set of Hope Tech4 E4s and only around 50€ less than a pair of V4s. Considering that the V4s come with 3 pairs of brake pads for each side (race, ebike and standard), which all work pretty fine (standard ones are a bit lackluster though), it's at least in Germany a bit hard to really recommend them to anyone. The E4s come with 2 pairs of pads which basically makes them as pricey as the Nebula Lewis ones. I am a big fan of Hope Tech4s (riding 2 sets of V4s on e-enduro and the bio enduro and a set of E4s on my trailbike), which just work perfectly and have a huge following on the bike market for years and a lot to come. I'd really love to give the Lewis ones a try (heck I even installed some alieexpress ipro4 ones on my hardtail, which work great for 80€ a set :D ), but they need to come down with the prices a lot.
@@DaleStone they Work with tech4 e4 pads as well. They pads they come with are ok, with some green race pads , they are really very good for that price
I’m also located in Germany and I got a pair of hope tech4 v4s and a pair of intend trinity. Would choose the intend any day, but the hopes are my second best choice. I even rebuild the hopes after two years of use with a hope service kit (accidentally damaged a piston seal during a very bad bleed). Since then they are like new again and it was very easy to do. I like that hope doesn’t change their design every other week and you’ll get the service kits for years to come.
Wow! What a great review! Thanks so much for putting so much effort into the video! 😊 Quick question: have you had a chance to try out the Braking Brakes Incas 2.0s? I got a new bike with them, but I haven't been able to get the calipers centered properly. Will you review them in the future? PS: I may replace them with either Hayes Dominion T4s or Trickstuff Diretissima.
I've never tried a set before, and I don't think I've ever even seen them in person! They're extremely rare in North America. It would be fun to try them out eventually though. 🙂
The hardly turnable reach adjust i experienced also on my brakes. A contact to Levis solved the issue or feature! There is a small hex screw pushing a small plastic ball on the tread thus making it hard to turn. You need just to release this screw a bit, then adjusting makes eady and light. You can see this also in exp drawing.
@@DaleStone You can find this hex screw in the middle of lever ball bearing. If you search for Lewis brake diagram, then the hex screw has a number 22 and small plastic ball has 23. Sadly C-tube does not allow to post any links.
Just an FYI I’ve got a set of the new LV4 brakes and I wanted to comment on them, beside them feeling amazing the fit on the lever adjustment Nob is perfect, tight enough they don’t move but loose enough I can adjust easily even with gloves on.
The pad gap appears to be about the difference between Hope E4 and V4 brake pads. I have both on different bikes but just keep a set of E4 pads in my riding pack as spares as they're close enough.
My reach adjuster dials on my Maxima's are butter smooth to adjust , easily, even when riding using just one finger. And I have them on 2 bikes , and all 4 lever's adjust dials are super smooth and could not be easier to rotate.
16:29 Usually this is a symptom of pistons needed lubing, once cycled trough properly it should fix it, unless seals are worn, in this case that's impossible as they are new. I'm not sure how an adjustment would make the pistons get stuck. Maybe the seals are bad. But what you said makes sense. Fluid expanding making the brakes lock up. This shouldn't happen. I wonder if they used thread locker on the adjustment dials.
I used carbon paste to stop my Lewis brakes from slipping on my carbon handle bars. It made a huge difference. Huge fan of the brakes..They also have match makers for shifters and dropper levers that are terrible don’t bother with those. The torque required to keep the matchmakers from moving is way too much.
As I review more products, I reevaluate previous reviews and score them accordingly to maintain accuracy. Scores can also change for reliability, brand actions, etc.
While they might be great brakes, I can't ignore the controversy. Personally if I want a set of premium brakes, I think I'll wait for the HEL mtb brakes which should be out soon.
I’ve been really happy on my LH4 from Rocket Race Shop. Free shipping and in the states. Like the Lewis more than any codes or Shimano brakes I’ve used in recent years.
9:42 Formula Cura & Cura 4 has that, nice, no way to get them too far down, you just put them in, it stops it at the perfect spot and you put the pin through. In my eyes that's a pro.
@@Brego666 Formula Cura 4''s are great, but for sure not with the standard flimsy levers. I had a pair and they were so so bad. The FCS levers seem to be good upgrade. For $550 you can get the beautiful silver FCS curas.
@@sans_2031 I really don't have any problems with standard levers. Yes, they have a little play, but that doesnt' bother me while riding. However I'm planing to get the new FCS levers to try them, since everyone like them so much.
Sounds like the freestroke adjuster can be adjusted too far in effectively making it a closed system with no access to the reservoir. This would lead to the situation you had where heat expanded fluid can't expand into the resivoir so instead it prevents the caliper pistons from being able to retract. Assuming this is what's happening bleeding the system with the bleed screw all the way in wouldn't solve this. You wouldn't be able to bleed the system with the freestroke screw this far in as the resevoir would be closed off from the master piston. That's my guess as to what's happening based purley on theory and never seeing these brakes in person.
So. I might try them. Spice it up some. You gave them the same overall as my beloved Slx and actually better than my Xt’s. And I am a bit sweet on the silver and camouflage flavored ones. They would be going on an “aggressive” trail ish bike. My canyon spectral 125 which I over-forked to 160 instead of 140. Worth a try?
If you want to minimize fatigue and make sure you'll be able to easily service them anywhere in the world, keep your XTs. If you want flashy colours with a fantastic build quality, but a question mark in terms of serviceability and warranty support, try these! ...and double check that 160 doesn't void your warranty. That scares me given my work history, haha.
@@DaleStone meh. 150 , 160. What’s 10mm 🫣🤦🏼♂️😬. I do “usually” run the fork at 150 which is ok. Thinking that I do travel a bit. I’ll stick with my Shimano’s. Thank you Dale for an honest , no BS review. It really is appreciated.
Hey Dale I wanted to ask have you considered doing a lever swap with the sram mavens? Kind of like shigura, but I guess we can call it Leven? As it seemed most of your complaints were with the levers not the calipers. I've seen someone on instagram swap on lewis LHP levers funnily enough and they said it was a huge improvement in the lever feel, with easily 50% less force needed. This as a shigura user has me interested because you can get a maven caliper new for 80 usd, same price as the mt5 caliper but more powerful
I'm keen on the idea but I'd prefer if the community establishes that it's a good one before I go spending my money (again) on one of my least favourite products, haha. 🙂
@@DaleStoneI forgot you have to pay for all these items and don't keep them, understandable you would want to look at interest first. Could even test with Shimano levers which you already have. I'm keen to see if this setup will dethrone shigura for the mismatched setups
Thanks for the review Dale! Lewis's new brake S4 & U4 both use redesigned lever, which has difference clamp and leverage ratio adjuster, hope it will fix the issues you mentioned in the video. Hope Lewis will also get more reliable overtime (apparently there is room for improvement for now).
@@DaleStone Yeah for sure, they're not perfect but they're pretty good. They forgot to put the bite adjuster in my box but it's fine lmao. I also wish the pads had a bit more power in exchange for durability because they last super long as is (tested it with a whole week of park laps in Morzine)
2:08 This is why I tell people often not which gear to buy but which reviewers to trust. There are a lot of at worst, disingenuous, at best dishonest reviews out there.
A few brakes have jumped ahead of part 2 of the Hayes review, but I hope to have that up by the end of the year. Aside from reliability (potentially), they easily have my recommendation for performance.
I bought a set of the LHT at the end of 2023, and so far, it's been good. I'm running saints and hope tech 4 V4. So far, I'm a fan of the Hope brakes over the saints and LHT.
Damn man, sneak peaking the Hayes dominations in the chart. Hope the heck can you rate them 9 for service they have like the least pleasant bleeding experience of any brakes I’ve had. I can see marking down the maguras because you need a special bleed cup to thread into the master but that’s the only real annoying part of them. Once you have the special cup, you just attach a catch cup to the caliper and moto bleed them just like shimano and hope. The dominions have that dual syringe fuckery and the juggling of the caliper bleed screw while praying you don’t let too much air in while you’re at it. And you can’t take the pads out the top, so you have to remove the wheel or caliper to pull the pads.
The bleed seemed fairly ordinary to me, and I always take the wheel out wherever doing anything brake related anyways, so neither of those are big cons to me. Where Hayes scored well was the excellent (but not perfect) ability for customers to purchase service spares and very clear rebuild documentation. I'll probably reduce it to an 8, but right to repair is a huge deal for me and Hayes is one of the best in that regard.
You should try Onirii/IIIPRO IV4R brakes too. Much cheaper than these, quite good and even Clarks is selling them with their logo (for double price ofc lol). They also have slipping clamps, if you don't overtighten them. IIIPRO does also have their own of Trickstuff Piccola. Those guys surely have some balls and will to brake probably every single patent there is. Should Shimano levers with IIIPRO brakes be called SHIII?
I have been riding the IIIPRO E4 4 piston brakes for soon 6 months. Great brakes. They are only 80-130€ depending on sale on aliexpress. I have not had the pad raddle problem with these. I replaced the original pads with hopes E4 pads.
@@DaleStonethey would break your brake review chart because they are so cheap and good for the price! Talking about IIIPRO E4 4 pot brakes. 80-130€ depending on the sale in aliexpress. Price is for both brakes.
@@WHTFSayonara IV4R is the latest model and costs as much as E4. Little improvements and so on. Pad rattle problem is only when using brakepads which doesn't have cooling fins - if using pads with cooling fins (like hope e4 or the stock pads) they won't rattle. Btw 5 pairs of hope pads cost more than these brakes 😅
@@hsmythi I'm not sure if that's true about being newer model. I think it's just different model. They also have the 3rd model. Yes I understood but I'm saying I don't have the pad ratlle problem and I'm using pads without the fins.
His last video was not a review. He explained the business side of the company. He said in his video, that the review will follow appoximatly 3 weeks after the first video🙃
After this review i believe these breaks got alot of negativity for 3 reasons : 1. Visual resemblance to Trickstuff (and people seem to love picking on things) 2. China (also affecting point 1) - people have a silly by me opinion on chinese made products while generally using alot of well build, in China appliances inntheir daily life without complaining 3. Being a relativelly new brand They sure sound good for the price at least, while the early adopter may seem like a risk, it feels there is potential for a serious competitor here if the company persist and improves on posible issues reported on these aparently early generation sets
You are correct, and it is worth noting that on 99% of the internet, the negativity is not performance based and largely caused by people who do not own these brakes. 🙂
BTW, Lewis is developing cranks too. A European distributor shared a story, I first mistook them for 5Dev, but he told me it was Lewis, but it is indeed a different design, different look, but still cranks with holes.
Its funny that Cam Zink a couple days ago told pinkbike (or GMBN) that after Trickstuff stopped supplying him with their brakes He chose Lewis as a sponsor beacause they feel exactly the same and that they are a 100% a rip off of diretissimas/maximas lmao
poor old cam he must have nerve damage in his hands! after riding my LHT's and also trying a set of maximas in a parking lot the trickstuff is far more powerful and the lever actuation is so light compared to my LHT's
In the comparison list of your results, there is 380 $ for shimano mt520. But they are availible for exactly 200 € here in germany (discs and pads included). Which is 300 Canadian-Dollar or 220 USD. How come the big difference?
Haven't a clue haha. I use MSRP, which is the only thing I can really go off, rather than sales/etc. MSRP is also notoriously difficult to find for Shimano products so although I did triple check I could be mistaken.
It's such a mixed bag. It's nice to get a great product for budget cost, but I know the people who created the product are getting ripped. I'd be pissed, but I'm not the creator, I'm the buyer....hold on, trying to find my credit card.
I don't believe that Trickstuff is affected financially by Lewis. They're targeting such different customers that I'm sure the overlap is a rounding error at best. 🙂
Been holding off buying a pair waiting for this review Glad I held off. I’ll just stick with what I’ve used on all my bikes. Slx or Xt. Saints on my “park,DH bikes”. Thanks Dale. I have a bad habit of impulse buying. This is the one time I’m glad I didn’t. I’m sure these brakes are just fine. But my Shimano are tried, true and tested.
The lever action being firm is a no go for me. I need super light action, which I get with Formula Cura 4. So I will stick with them, but some other boutique brands are interesting. The brake pad rattle is a no-go for me. Also no spare parts availability is silly, I see some retailers offered limited offer life time warranty, this is silly, so basically buy it now and get warranty for a long time. Don't and you won't. Silly marketing. I want all parts to be easily available to buy. But I think it was a British distributor that claimed they have all spare parts. I don't want to have to ask them for parts, I want to be able to buy what ever I need. But of course having warranty is great. But up selling life time warranty for pre orders is absurd.
They seem like good brakes.. interesting they're a "controversial" chinese brand. I'd assumed they were a UK brand because the name sounds British. But also the first time i heard of them was Louise Anna Ferguson, who races for Intense Factory Racing on the UCI DH World Cup, doing a bike check & mentioning how, just like many of the racers now running SRAM Mavens, she had to drop back to 203 rotors from 220 because the brakes were so powerful. This was a bike check at the Crankworx Whistler, Canadian Open on the Stevie Smith 1199 course which is STEEP.. Yes that's right, Intense Factory Racing uses Lewis Brakes. Not sure which model but if the Intense factory team uses them they must be pretty decent.. In my experience with brakes, Magura MT5, SRAM Code Rs, & Shimano XT. The best brake system is Shigura, when you combine the Magura caliper with an XT, XTR, or Saint lever. Combining the 2 systems brings out the best in both of them. The modulation & power of Magura with the snappiness of Shimano, without the carbotecture lever of Magura or the on/off of Shimano. I'd imagine its like Trickstuff or Maven performance for a third the price. And cheaper to get Shimano levers to replace a broken Magura one as theyre prone to do in crashes, as i experienced when my lever body broke after a crash. Mind you it was my 4th crash on the same levers, but the shimano lever bodies wopuld just not break like that. But the Magura calipers are far better than the Shimano calipers with better heat resistance & in my experience the pads last longer.
@@danharvey3096 I've been running a Shigura setup for 2-3 years on one of my bikes, I have to disagree about the modulation bit. IMO the power delivery of a Shigura setup is something like "everything all at once at the beginning of the stroke". Then sometimes you pull harder when you need more power, and it's just not there. It works fine for me, I only notice the lack of modulation when I'm following slower people. Maybe I'm just imagining things, maybe I suck at modulating brakes. But when people who run full Magura setups try my bike, they always comment on how grabby my brakes are. I also had multiple Shimano levers develop a leak at the master cylinder, and since it's Shimano you can forget about serviceability and spare parts, but that's another story. IMO a Shigura setup is great when your bike came with those lame MT5 levers, and they feel über powerful in parking lot tests, but they're far from the best brakes out there. And I haven't even mentioned the constant pad drag that's part of the Magura life. 🙃
Hi, I juste watch your video new lewis video (I saw the one on lewis history too). I used to work a s4 suspension wich is a lewis dealer in Canada. I hade the chance to buy them and receive them in December of 2023. After almost a full season I only encountered two issues. I have a wondering bite point (tho it might be due to my bleeding skills 😅) and the slipping clamp.
I've heard that quite a few people have had wandering bite point experiences, but also that most have been solved with different bleeding techniques. I suspect this is why Lewis revised their instructions/video this year. Glad I didn't encounter anything so far! 🤞
Should probably mention that if anyone is shopping for a set of the Lewis brakes check out S4 Suspension. They are $130 cheaper than some shops, like say Dunbar 🙄, plus free shipping over $150. Added bonus, Hope V4 sintered pads for 23 bucks a set instead of 40. I've bought a couple shocks and a fork from S4 and have had great service. The LHT brakes have been added to my list of upgrades for this winter.
Hey Dale, I'm in the process of installing my LH4s right now! Mine came with the two bolt clamp design, but the threads are VERY rough... Definitely going to run a tap through them as even with the lever off the newly added bolt is stiff (and I think I saw some shavings/flakes fall out of it?) and it's hard to determine how much force you are actually applying to the carbon bars. The new two-bolt clamp doesn't feel up to the same machining quality as the rest of the setup. Coming from Code RSCs with a Problem Solver MMX adapter for the M8100 shifter, I was in for a surprise when my shifter now doesn't mount to my bike and its the Friday of Thanksgiving long weekend ☹guess I didn't do enough homework on the Lewis Matchmaker adapter, and just assumed I would be able to make it work. Your videos on the Lewis saga have been phenomenal! Always looking forward to your video releases! 🤙
I've had chips remaining in the threads on brake post mounts of frames before, so having tap chips in the clamps would not be out of line for this industry, haha. Hope you get it solved this weekend!
Most decent mic’s/ audio recording software should have a voice isolation feature. It would eliminate most of the clicks and mouse rubbing you hear in the VO. (Some editing software can remove it after the fact too but it’s a bit of a hassle)
Yup, I don't dispute that. And my comment didn't mean everyone should use these brakes because he has, there are many things to look at when deciding on the brakes you need. I was more referring to any of the "cheap Chinese crap" comments that people like to use when a Chinese company put something out.
Chinese brakes are almost the only thing I won't buy off aliexpress because as much as I have used and abused the stuff I got from there I am not trusting my life with them and would rather spend a tad more for name brand for the reliability. but chains, grips shifters almost everything else I would 100% buy from Chinese companies
Guess you'll be surprised to hear where some of the name bands outsource their manufacturing to... and these have never been available on AliExpress. 🙂
7/10 servicability for a brake that took a month to be assembled and had to be imported..? servicability is heavily determined by parts availability (in different countries) in my books.
Serviceability is a combination of how complex, proprietary, and time consuming routing maintenance is (>70%) and the ability to source parts when/if things go wrong (
They're not fakes, it's the same company that makes them. If you're not aware, you can also buy the rights to sell them and use your own brand. You just need to find the right manufacturer.
As a fisherman, Lewis is ok in my books. Western folk need to realise most of their stuff is made IN China. Look at your rims. Chill. Thank you Lewis and this channel.
Chitese brands come and go. Simply because they run their tools without maintenance and quality keeps dropping with later products. There are exceptions, but they are wery few.
@dalestone do you have a PO box or business address you can send me. I've got a set of4 pot MTB brakes you will very likely be shocked by in a good way if you review.
Still expensive. Get the IIIpro IV brakes. It's the same as the lewis brakes with different badge😂. I dont why anyone would pay more 100$ for a set brakes. I told my bro that the pads and rotor is just as more important than the brake set itself. Lever gives everyone that placebo effect because of the tension its feeding back to the rider. Once people figure out that they should use their knuckle and not the tip of their fingers to pull the lever, they will notice less force to pull the levers and less hand fatigue. Aaron Gwin explained this better than I could.
If anybody tells you that these are the best brakes that have ever been made, they are absolutely full of it. What are your favourite brakes? 👇
So I'm full of shit? Well yeah not the best ever, I'm impressed by the features and ease of bleeding and quality for the price I got my second set of LH4 a couple days ago from S4 suspension at 499$ CDN so I didn't pay shipping for customs and duties this time, like when nobody wanted these 😅
Anyway my favorite ever are the code RSC but minus the DOT hassle, maybe the Cura but I'd have to retry them it's been awhile.
Shigura: Magura calipers with Shimano levers. Very strong, very good modulation, inexpensive (at least in Europe) and absolutely rugged.
@@LaurentiusTriarius nah, full of IT. He didn't say shit...
Currently I’m using the formula cura brakes no problems with them plenty of stopping power for me .
@@hendrikd6664 🚨 uneducated comment alert 🚨
Dale I just want to say, I have been so enjoying this brake series you’ve been doing. They are so well flushed out. Please know the effort you put into these vids is well worth it from a viewership prospective!
I appreciate that, I strive for quality over quantity when it comes to my reviews! 🙂
@@TheHman22 ...and what decent and consistent reviews they are
@@DaleStone that last comment was meant to go here
i have been running the lh4 on my scor 4060 z ebike well over a year with zero problems , they have never moved on my carbon bars , i got them direct from lewis before they came on the market for 239 bucks !! i love them i have only bled them once and mine came with the silver braided lines
That's a very nice price!
@@DaleStone probably the best 239 i've ever spent haaaa
Bro that was a Leatherman wave. I bought my Leatherman in like 2008 and I still have it today.
Maaaaaan this review could not have come at a better time!!! It’s cool that they can look that good and at least have good reliable power.
I pains me to see the Hayes A4s in purgatory at the bottom of the list waiting on scores. Not that I have experience (aside from the A4s) with brakes outside of Sram and Shimano offerings, but the A4s have been completely maintenance free, super reliable and fantastic performers for me.
While I don't have daily access to terrain that can properly find their limits, I'm extremely grateful to have them on my bike every time I head out on a weekend trip to the mountains where they can be put to proper use.
I promise to release them from their purgatory in 2024. I can also assure you they'll be scored very well. 🫡
i’ve been riding them for the better part of a year, and i’ll admit they have their ups and their downs, god i hate the lever body clamp, but more importantly they were my primary brake for my dh bike, where a full top to bottom laps at my local park is 1800ft usually 16-20 minutes of pure chaos, and they consistently do fantastic. like dale mentioned it is a lot of rider preference and i love them and would recommend them…just run the glafer pads, more consistent bite point and either the hayes 203 rotors or the sram H2S for the A4😉
I love my hayes as well. I weigh 260lb , and these just never fade.
I have had the same experience with my Hayes. While my dhr evos leaked all over my pads both times I've bleed them, my Hayes have worked flawlessly and are always super easy to bleed ant maintain. The lever feel of the Hayes is also far and away the best I've ever felt on any brake
@@owenjohnson9174I also run the red galfer pads with magura mdrp discs and I have found that they are incredibly silent and strong. Hugely recommended.
got LH4s few days ago. they ship them with that new 2 part clamp, so no rotating issue. and those adjusters for reach and bite point works just fine, dont have to use pliers as you did.
I'm glad they've since sorted out both issues for you!
Nothing that surprise me. I knew they would turn out to be decent brakes, so a good bang for your buck.
At this point I'd still wait and see what 2nd iteration will be like, because if they manage to smooth out the few flaws and just carry over what is good with the 1st iteration, it's worth the wait in my mind.
I agree, and hopefully will be testing a set soon.
I may or may not be testing the new LHP Lever with LHT caliper and so far it is amazing. The semi metallic pads change the feeling of the system entirely, it has an insane amount of power compared to the full metallic pad.
Such a comprehensive and informative video, thanks Dale!
Cracked open the master cylinders on a pair of LH4 to replace the seals on the pistons because the bite point had gotten inconsistent.
Downsides: the internals (and parts) didn't QUITE match the schematics/exploded diagram that Lewis sent us (rolling improvements, maybe), and disassembly required a 1.3mm hex! Had to go out and buy a bit kit specifically for this task.
Upsides: the manufacturing quality is absolutely up there with the best; the user (brakes weren't mine) said that the braking performance was excellent... when they were working properly, that is; Lewis aftersales support and service was responsive and helpful.
I hope they do well and continue to give the big brake boys some food for thought.
EDIT: we tried the seal replacement method because that was what Lewis recommended. On opening up the master cylinder, the seals and piston design didn’t match what their exploded drawing was showing, so I made the call to just bleed and reassemble instead of replacing it with the new seals they had sent. No complaints from the user so far, but the bike is coming in again later this week so I will report back!
I think that wasn't the first time someone had to buy special tools for bike maintenance 😅
My shop had a set of LH4's and hooked me up so we could get a good review in. For science.
I live in Calgary and mostly ride in Alberta, interior BC (Golden, Revelstoke, Panorama, etc), but also managed to get some Kamloops and Squamish in as well over the summer. I'm 6'4 and riding weight is around 270lbs, so put any brakes I use to the test.
I haven't had any issues with them at all. They've been consistent, have lots of modulation and more than enough power to manage speed and stop me (even on trails like Dead Dog). My bite point and reach adjusters spin freely and I haven't needed pliers to mess around with them. Lever feel is great.
I have a great shop who's willing to support if there are any issues, which is awesome. The real question will be long term reliability and access to parts if something needs replacing. So far, zero regrets getting them.
Glad you've had a positive experience. Shop perks!
Great detailed review. Not something I'm about to run out and buy given I'm running Shimano MT-400 with 6100 levers and am happy with them but always fun to bike geek on something that looks super cool and controversial. As always, one of the best bike reviews in any media. Well done and keep up the great work.
phenomenal review! wish i had something more interesting to say but I just really enjoyed this video and all the effort that was put into it!
Out of curiosity, I watched Lewis's bleeding video last week and I can confirm that it is quite detailed and thorough. It reminded me one Park Tools video on the bleeding of Shimano brakes in which Calvin went way over the regular procedures that us mere mortals do under bleeding.
Park Tool still show gravity bleed and pushing dirty fluid up through the lever side, instead of sucking it out through where most dirt comes from, which is the caliper. In my mind you should start by sucking out the dirty fluid first through the caliper, and then fill up with fresh fluid and start the actual bleed process when all the fluid is fresh.
Gravity bleed is a joke and very outdated. I feel Park Tool try to stay in line with what certain brands recommend, instead of following what seems more reasonable. You can bleed Shimano brekas the SRAM way just by choosing to do so, and I wish Shimano would update themself on this area as well as making threads inside the bleedport for a more secure bleed.
@@a8f235 Given how many brands and vendors showcase this method simply means that there is likely no measurable difference in which direction to push the fluid. Yeah, in theory there could be dirt there and getting rid of it kinda makes sense as a hypothesis. But is there really any reliably *measurable* difference? And speaking of dirt, does it make a difference where it gets pushed first if in the end its gets purged? Let's not forget that the bleeding process is primarily meant to evacuate air bubbles. If someone has serious dirt and water in their brake lines, maybe it is too late to reason about in which direction the filth should be pushed. They likely have more serious problems on their hands, which require a caliper rebuild with consequent bleeding to fill in the system again.
@@a8f235 And by the way, I always thought that *gravity* bleed means that the old fluid is evacuated from the bottom, being driven there by gravity. I.e., that's the traditional Shimano method. And forcing the old fluid to leave from the top at the caliper by using a syringe at the bottom works against gravity. But maybe my interpretation is wrong.
@@GrigoryRechistov By relying on gravity you have no control over what you hopefully want to achieve(removal of air bubbles) so how do you know there are no airbubbles left... With a syringe you have direct control over what you want to achieve, which drastically increase your chances of removing as much as possible. You should want to probe the system instead of scratching your head hoping for a miracle.
How do you even troubleshoot a gravitybleed?
In regards to your way of thinking that amount of brands(people) doing something equals more right is completely wrong, because truth doesn't care who or how many believe in it. Truth is its own entity, so I couldn't care less how many people follow something if I personally believe it is wrong. There is a good reason why there are so many videos about brake bleeds and what ever else, simply because the industry cannot make up its mind about something that should be easy for people who have been working within the industry for so long.
Park Tool produce a lot of good tools(and I do own a lot of it myself) but in certain areas they can feel a bit outdated. Obviously they have got a lot of proper knowledge, so I have no intention of throwing them completely under the bus as I've mentioned I do own lots of their tools and intend to keep using them for good reason.
I'm just tired of seeing brake bleed videos surfacing every spring, like how many ways of doing this is there, really... The industry need to make up its mind.
PS: About contaminated brake fluid, it's as simple as why compromise the lever side of things if you don't have to, because it is a choice to push the fluid out the top or you push it out the bottom. It's the same as when I store my bike I always engage the lowest gear so the gearcable will be slack. Why have constant tension on it if you don't have to(My bike will be stored for at least 7 months at a time because of winter).
It's just certain things at least I feel is good practice, because then you know you have cared about something which you can put into something else as well.
@@a8f235 Many good points I agree with. Totally agree that if many people do something, that does not mean that it is a right thing to do.
> how do you know there are no airbubbles left...
Exactly, and in fact Park Tools' video for Shimano brakes has them forcing the oil in both directions at separate steps, and then rotating the lever into two ±45° positions to hunt for even more bubbles. A crazy involved process.
Still, I have a feeling that the pushing order does not matter that much. Like, is it even proven that all dirt that comes in is heavier than oil? If there is some dirt that is lighter than oil, it will float up anyway, and in this case pushing it down would be the wrong thing.
And yes, my brakes, when I bleed them, often vomit out nasty brown shit :-)
Bravo Dale for the combination of objective and up-front subjective analysis + voicing an actual opinion. Love the channel and proper bike nerd deep dive. The polar opposite of what is most commonplace on TH-cam MTB journalism (generally either channels full of opinions with no actual data/science to back it up or zero-opinion Sesame Street 2-dimensional zero substance dialogue - looking at you GMBN).
Thanks, always gotta cite your sources! 🤓
I love this series! I'm sure you've already heard, but just a heads up that there is a grub screw on the reach adjust knob that is used to lock your reach in place. That probably just needs to be loosened in order to fix your need for pliers.
Also, I throw my little adjustment Allen knob thing under my fork top screw cap. I keep it in the little plastic bag it came with and it doesn't rattle around at all!
Indeed, I will be testing it our shortly. I appreciate you reaching out here and on IG. 🙂 Now that's a good hack for the adjustment knob!
Mtb needs a tracevelo. A mad lad willing to buy and review chinese parts!
I'll check with my health insurance provider. 😂
I have the LV4 (bought them at their Taobao shop. Bought 2 pairs, the first one at the end of 2023 but the bike where they were installed got stolen in January...
Bought the other pair in May and been using them since.
Had no issues with the reach adjustment dial on both of the pairs but did have issues with the clamp on the first pair. On the second pair, they give me the new clamp but seems like you have the old one. Their new clamp is very similar to Trickstuff's new clamp (what a coincidence).
Another thing, i have the silver model and one of the calipers came slightly shinier than the other parts for some reason... It's not an issue at all but I noticed that.
Other than that, they have been really good so far. Best brakes i ever had and hope they'll last long :)
Your videoquality and vibrance is spot on for the riding segments.
I appreciate that, because these ones were hand graded. 🙂
Another great review! Informative and entertaining as always.
As someone who owns both Direttissima and Piccola HD brakes, I would like to point out that at some point Trickstuff changed the C42 caliper to take the same pads as SRAM Codes/ Guides. The current sets no use the Hope E4/ Shimano pads.
That is a great piece of information that I did not stumble upon myself, I will fix this in my future videos. Thank you!
I love your brake review series so far! I see you have quite a few other brakes on your list as shown in the video, but I don't see any actual videos on them, do you have any articles posted for those other reviews?
For everything in the table, I have scripts written up for complete videos but haven't had the time to film and edit them. Hopefully I'll be able to do so eventually, but otherwise they will remain on the list as comparison references only, haha.
Great review! So i won't tear right away the beloved Cura :D
dale scale is the best rating system. cant wait to see more brake reviews
📊📈
Been waiting for this review, thanks for your take! Only a couple weeks left in the season for me before a long winter, so I have many months to make my final decision. I'm hoping the next gen Lewis brake becomes available from S4 during that time as now that's the model that interests me most. It also looks like new Saint will actually release by the spring as well which is another strong contender. New Saint will likely be double the price of Lewis though, so they'll need to be something special.
It looks like their LHP model will be coming to north america sooner than you think, given that it's been on sale in China for a bit already.
这是我看过最为详细的关于lewis刹车与它的制造商的相关视频，感谢您做出的努力！在中国，一些厂商将仿制作为进入某个行业的方式。他们在仿制产品后会做一些非常小的改进，便将其称为自己的设计，这个现象在自行车行业尤其明显。例如，tideace就仿制了santa cruz hightower与norco range并在淘宝上销售。这种现象在中国也被反感。很高兴看到lewis并没有止步于仿制产品并出售，而是继续进行改进，这是一个好的趋势。在中国，影响lewis刹车销售的一个原因是价格。禧玛诺刹车在中国的非官方售价非常有竞争力，例如m8120仅需190美元左右，m9120仅需约300美元（显然，没有任何售后与质保），而lh4刹车的售价约为235美元。影响lewis刹车销售的另一个原因是其不同批次的质量并不稳定，据我所知有一些lewis刹车存在漏油问题。所以，许多人会选择更为便宜且成熟可靠的禧玛诺产品。我希望lewis可以更好的改进他的刹车系统，我也希望可以在您的频道继续看到关于lewis刹车的内容😉😉nice work dale！
🫡
Excellent work as always Dale. Thank you!
18:17 I thought that was intended for extra grip on the lever.
That's what I've seen on Instagram.
I've messaged Lewis about holes in the lever for grip, I was told they did not do it, to not weaken the lever, but they told me they will do it, but not sure if they will make indents or holes.
but later months later I saw people posting pictures with the tape shown here on the lever.
19:22 Good idea to implement this. I forgot when I asked them about it but I asked them when ever I saw their brakes first, but this confirms they were actually worked on this. But it seems like they worked on it before i asked them about it. But I think it's strange they did not implement it. But if they weren't lying in the reply I got they might do it, they wrote they will.
18:24 brake clamp moving, is unacceptable.
Interesting! Thanks as always for the deep dive. I need to go find your XTR review to find why the reliability of the 9120 was so low. I've had multiple sets of the older XTR 2 pistons that I move from bike to bike for over a decade and only had one lever seal fail. Was considering a set of Trinity's but the order process is a joke, and I found a set of 9120s for half your MSRP, so I am running them now and will compare to my old sets. I really prefer the levers of Shimano, but hate the no rebuild/repair policy they have on so much of their stuff. Cura's are pretty good too if you ever get around to them.
I have the script done for the XTR video... But haven't gotten around to filming it yet. The tl;dr is that I've managed to make just about every bit of those brakes fail over time.
Would love to see a radic kaha review. Definitely have the potential to take top spot in my opinion.
I'd love to! But alas I only make TH-camr-money, haha. Maybe they'll reach out if enough people ask them! 🫡
@@DaleStone Good point. Might struggle to get a very good value score ahaha but I’ll start emailing…
Very nice detailed review! Will you be testing the latest Hope brakes? It'd be cool to see where tgey stack up on your list
They're on the list for sure! Probably early next year at this rate.
Tech 4 v4 with vented rotors apparently don't fade, but they're known to have master seal issues
@@kingflynxi9420 thats thanks. good to know. I checked out a couple yt reviews but no mention of that issue. Is that master seal an ez fix? One reviewer mentioned he'd probably buy the hayes dominions because theyre almost half the price but both the hope and hayes are quite powerful and both have a light lever pull feeling. Any thoughts on hayes vs hope e4 v4?
@@DaleStone standing by for Hope Tech 4. Been loving mine. Unfortunately my rear brake is on it's way for warranty but everything else is amazing.
Good review I am (almost) considering replacing my SLX brakes to try these out! :)
One thing to note: I don't know if its a good idea to NOT back off the deadstroke adjust screw completely during a bleed. I believe not doing so will prevent some fluid movement and if there is air trapped in that chamber, it might not be released during the bleed process. I believe both SRAM and Shimano suggest winding the screw all the way out during the bleed for this reason. Perhaps what you did in your video is the best way to get a minimal deadstroke: plan for a shakedown ride after a bleed to prevent the issue #1 that you had.
It was quite effective at eliminating dead stroke, that much is for sure haha! 🚫⚰️
As always, very nice and complete video, can't wait to see the maximas to have a direct comparison with the Trinity, and next year with the Hopes V4 ( hopefully v4 ).
from my almost non existent experience with lewis if not a lever squeeze, the lht are really light so i was expecting the lh4 to be the same, but i was wrong apparently
The power curve is solid, but the dead stroke lever force is disappointingly average.
Really love the design on the nebula. Would match quite nicely my Dreadnought v1 deep space nine frame. This thing is though, that these brakes cost around 400-420€ here in Germany. That's basically the same price as a set of Hope Tech4 E4s and only around 50€ less than a pair of V4s. Considering that the V4s come with 3 pairs of brake pads for each side (race, ebike and standard), which all work pretty fine (standard ones are a bit lackluster though), it's at least in Germany a bit hard to really recommend them to anyone. The E4s come with 2 pairs of pads which basically makes them as pricey as the Nebula Lewis ones. I am a big fan of Hope Tech4s (riding 2 sets of V4s on e-enduro and the bio enduro and a set of E4s on my trailbike), which just work perfectly and have a huge following on the bike market for years and a lot to come.
I'd really love to give the Lewis ones a try (heck I even installed some alieexpress ipro4 ones on my hardtail, which work great for 80€ a set :D ), but they need to come down with the prices a lot.
I just tried a set of those IPros today, and wow... 🤯
@@DaleStone they Work with tech4 e4 pads as well. They pads they come with are ok, with some green race pads , they are really very good for that price
I’m also located in Germany and I got a pair of hope tech4 v4s and a pair of intend trinity. Would choose the intend any day, but the hopes are my second best choice. I even rebuild the hopes after two years of use with a hope service kit (accidentally damaged a piston seal during a very bad bleed). Since then they are like new again and it was very easy to do. I like that hope doesn’t change their design every other week and you’ll get the service kits for years to come.
Wow! What a great review! Thanks so much for putting so much effort into the video! 😊 Quick question: have you had a chance to try out the Braking Brakes Incas 2.0s? I got a new bike with them, but I haven't been able to get the calipers centered properly. Will you review them in the future? PS: I may replace them with either Hayes Dominion T4s or Trickstuff Diretissima.
I've never tried a set before, and I don't think I've ever even seen them in person! They're extremely rare in North America. It would be fun to try them out eventually though. 🙂
Dale great review been looking forward to this since the info video. Do you plan on reviewing the hope tech 4 E4s?
Eventually I hope to!
The hardly turnable reach adjust i experienced also on my brakes. A contact to Levis solved the issue or feature! There is a small hex screw pushing a small plastic ball on the tread thus making it hard to turn. You need just to release this screw a bit, then adjusting makes eady and light. You can see this also in exp drawing.
I don't actually own a hex key that small, so I'm waiting on that to confirm this detail. 🙂
@@DaleStone You can find this hex screw in the middle of lever ball bearing. If you search for Lewis brake diagram, then the hex screw has a number 22 and small plastic ball has 23. Sadly C-tube does not allow to post any links.
Very good detailed review! Will you ever be testing shigura brakes? its a very interesting option, would love to see how you rank them...
Once I'm through all of the interesting OEM options, I'm down to get freaky. 😈
Just an FYI I’ve got a set of the new LV4 brakes and I wanted to comment on them, beside them feeling amazing the fit on the lever adjustment Nob is perfect, tight enough they don’t move but loose enough I can adjust easily even with gloves on.
Glad they've been working for you! The one set of LV4s that I parking lot tested felt great.
@ yeah just got them all dialed and bled, gonna take them
Riding tomorrow morning to see how they perform on a downhill track
The pad gap appears to be about the difference between Hope E4 and V4 brake pads. I have both on different bikes but just keep a set of E4 pads in my riding pack as spares as they're close enough.
I believe the V4 pads need some slight shaving to fit into the caliper, at least that's what forums online told me... haha
Almost like they got the tolerances slightly wrong. @@DaleStone
My reach adjuster dials on my Maxima's are butter smooth to adjust , easily, even when riding using just one finger. And I have them on 2 bikes , and all 4 lever's adjust dials are super smooth and could not be easier to rotate.
I'm glad yours work!
16:29 Usually this is a symptom of pistons needed lubing, once cycled trough properly it should fix it, unless seals are worn, in this case that's impossible as they are new. I'm not sure how an adjustment would make the pistons get stuck. Maybe the seals are bad. But what you said makes sense. Fluid expanding making the brakes lock up. This shouldn't happen. I wonder if they used thread locker on the adjustment dials.
I used carbon paste to stop my Lewis brakes from slipping on my carbon handle bars. It made a huge difference. Huge fan of the brakes..They also have match makers for shifters and dropper levers that
are terrible don’t bother with those. The torque required to keep the matchmakers from moving is way too much.
I would love to know how the trusty old Saint is doing on the Dale Scale!
It would be fun to see how "retro" designs compare to the modern stuff... once I've worked my way through the modern stuff! 🙂
Am also curious what you think of the M820 Saints.
Another awesome video but what we really want to know is how the LHT's stack up
They are the next review. 👀
Can't wait but why have the Intends gone up 3 points since your very first review where they got 80
As I review more products, I reevaluate previous reviews and score them accordingly to maintain accuracy. Scores can also change for reliability, brand actions, etc.
Need a review with trickstuff on the front and Lewis on the rear 😆
That's definitely happening... 👀
While they might be great brakes, I can't ignore the controversy. Personally if I want a set of premium brakes, I think I'll wait for the HEL mtb brakes which should be out soon.
Rational, and fair! 🙂
I’ve been really happy on my LH4 from Rocket Race Shop. Free shipping and in the states. Like the Lewis more than any codes or Shimano brakes I’ve used in recent years.
9:42 Formula Cura & Cura 4 has that, nice, no way to get them too far down, you just put them in, it stops it at the perfect spot and you put the pin through. In my eyes that's a pro.
After thinking about this: for installation it's a pro, but for rattling it's definitely a con. The small gap is just asking to create noise!
@@DaleStone try Formulas next please
@Brego666 one day 🙂
@@Brego666 Formula Cura 4''s are great, but for sure not with the standard flimsy levers. I had a pair and they were so so bad. The FCS levers seem to be good upgrade. For $550 you can get the beautiful silver FCS curas.
@@sans_2031 I really don't have any problems with standard levers. Yes, they have a little play, but that doesnt' bother me while riding. However I'm planing to get the new FCS levers to try them, since everyone like them so much.
Sounds like the freestroke adjuster can be adjusted too far in effectively making it a closed system with no access to the reservoir. This would lead to the situation you had where heat expanded fluid can't expand into the resivoir so instead it prevents the caliper pistons from being able to retract. Assuming this is what's happening bleeding the system with the bleed screw all the way in wouldn't solve this. You wouldn't be able to bleed the system with the freestroke screw this far in as the resevoir would be closed off from the master piston.
That's my guess as to what's happening based purley on theory and never seeing these brakes in person.
Plausible theory, could be an oversight!
So. I might try them. Spice it up some. You gave them the same overall as my beloved Slx and actually better than my Xt’s. And I am a bit sweet on the silver and camouflage flavored ones.
They would be going on an “aggressive” trail ish bike. My canyon spectral 125 which I over-forked to 160 instead of 140. Worth a try?
If you want to minimize fatigue and make sure you'll be able to easily service them anywhere in the world, keep your XTs. If you want flashy colours with a fantastic build quality, but a question mark in terms of serviceability and warranty support, try these!
...and double check that 160 doesn't void your warranty. That scares me given my work history, haha.
@@DaleStone meh. 150 , 160. What’s 10mm 🫣🤦🏼♂️😬. I do “usually” run the fork at 150 which is ok.
Thinking that I do travel a bit. I’ll stick with my Shimano’s. Thank you Dale for an honest , no BS review. It really is appreciated.
I would love to see you try out the E MTB ones, should fit on a standard bike right?
1 piston per 8kg of Dale. 😂
Are you planning to review the new Magura gustav pro? It will be much appreciated!
I'd like to, but when I did some digging it seemed like it would be several months before they'd be available in North America. 🙃
You should review the braking breaks rm4 set they are a really good Italian product that has recently made a new brake set
Would be fun eventually!
Hey Dale I wanted to ask have you considered doing a lever swap with the sram mavens? Kind of like shigura, but I guess we can call it Leven? As it seemed most of your complaints were with the levers not the calipers. I've seen someone on instagram swap on lewis LHP levers funnily enough and they said it was a huge improvement in the lever feel, with easily 50% less force needed. This as a shigura user has me interested because you can get a maven caliper new for 80 usd, same price as the mt5 caliper but more powerful
I'm keen on the idea but I'd prefer if the community establishes that it's a good one before I go spending my money (again) on one of my least favourite products, haha. 🙂
@@DaleStoneI forgot you have to pay for all these items and don't keep them, understandable you would want to look at interest first. Could even test with Shimano levers which you already have. I'm keen to see if this setup will dethrone shigura for the mismatched setups
Thanks for the review Dale! Lewis's new brake S4 & U4 both use redesigned lever, which has difference clamp and leverage ratio adjuster, hope it will fix the issues you mentioned in the video. Hope Lewis will also get more reliable overtime (apparently there is room for improvement for now).
I saw that, hopefully I can get a set of U4s in for testing... 👀
@@DaleStone They are available to purchase from Taobao if you want to get one. I placed an order and I was told it will arrive within a week🤞
Just a small comment here, I ordered the LH4s in mid august and they came with the 2 bolt clamp. Doesn't move at all and goes well.
It's impressive how many rolling changes they've been able to implement in production, though being a CNC process makes it relatively easy. 🙂
@@DaleStone Yeah for sure, they're not perfect but they're pretty good. They forgot to put the bite adjuster in my box but it's fine lmao. I also wish the pads had a bit more power in exchange for durability because they last super long as is (tested it with a whole week of park laps in Morzine)
2:08 This is why I tell people often not which gear to buy but which reviewers to trust. There are a lot of at worst, disingenuous, at best dishonest reviews out there.
Bingo. And anyways gather information from multiple sources too for a more balanced take.
Thank you very much!
You are very welcome!
Damn, you lost me at "Sram lever feel" :D Do you have any update on the Hayes brakes, i will probably swap my Srams out for Hayes after the winter
A few brakes have jumped ahead of part 2 of the Hayes review, but I hope to have that up by the end of the year. Aside from reliability (potentially), they easily have my recommendation for performance.
@@DaleStone Thank man, you are a gold mine for this stuff!
We need 'classic sram' & Maven lever feel....
@@MrSupermugen Maybe "you" need but not me :D
I bought a set of the LHT at the end of 2023, and so far, it's been good.
I'm running saints and hope tech 4 V4. So far, I'm a fan of the Hope brakes over the saints and LHT.
Damn man, sneak peaking the Hayes dominations in the chart. Hope the heck can you rate them 9 for service they have like the least pleasant bleeding experience of any brakes I’ve had. I can see marking down the maguras because you need a special bleed cup to thread into the master but that’s the only real annoying part of them. Once you have the special cup, you just attach a catch cup to the caliper and moto bleed them just like shimano and hope. The dominions have that dual syringe fuckery and the juggling of the caliper bleed screw while praying you don’t let too much air in while you’re at it. And you can’t take the pads out the top, so you have to remove the wheel or caliper to pull the pads.
The bleed seemed fairly ordinary to me, and I always take the wheel out wherever doing anything brake related anyways, so neither of those are big cons to me. Where Hayes scored well was the excellent (but not perfect) ability for customers to purchase service spares and very clear rebuild documentation. I'll probably reduce it to an 8, but right to repair is a huge deal for me and Hayes is one of the best in that regard.
@@DaleStone that’s fair, they’re pretty much the opposite of shimano when it comes to selling you spare brake parts.
Any idea on the availability of levers in BC? Thats the part i blow up the most
Haven't a clue at all since I went direct, but the distributors that are advertising in this comment section should know. 😂
S4 Suspension is a distributer for Lewis. i have asked them about replacement parts and they said lewis has not offered any to them.
You should try Onirii/IIIPRO IV4R brakes too. Much cheaper than these, quite good and even Clarks is selling them with their logo (for double price ofc lol). They also have slipping clamps, if you don't overtighten them.
IIIPRO does also have their own of Trickstuff Piccola. Those guys surely have some balls and will to brake probably every single patent there is.
Should Shimano levers with IIIPRO brakes be called SHIII?
I'll give them a look!
I have been riding the IIIPRO E4 4 piston brakes for soon 6 months. Great brakes. They are only 80-130€ depending on sale on aliexpress. I have not had the pad raddle problem with these. I replaced the original pads with hopes E4 pads.
@@DaleStonethey would break your brake review chart because they are so cheap and good for the price! Talking about IIIPRO E4 4 pot brakes. 80-130€ depending on the sale in aliexpress. Price is for both brakes.
@@WHTFSayonara IV4R is the latest model and costs as much as E4. Little improvements and so on. Pad rattle problem is only when using brakepads which doesn't have cooling fins - if using pads with cooling fins (like hope e4 or the stock pads) they won't rattle. Btw 5 pairs of hope pads cost more than these brakes 😅
@@hsmythi I'm not sure if that's true about being newer model. I think it's just different model. They also have the 3rd model. Yes I understood but I'm saying I don't have the pad ratlle problem and I'm using pads without the fins.
Make them LH44 and they will be great ;)
Saw you last video, so I just ordered a Lewis latest U4 brakes. So it’s not the best brakes?😂
His last video was not a review. He explained the business side of the company. He said in his video, that the review will follow appoximatly 3 weeks after the first video🙃
@@philip12 I was just trying to be funny. But thanks for explaining it
I know theyre boring, but id love to see a review of any of the Magura 4 piston sets in this format. Its great to watch and excellently produced.
I actually have a script written up for the MT7 Pros, but it seems to indefinitely pushed down the list...
After this review i believe these breaks got alot of negativity for 3 reasons :
1. Visual resemblance to Trickstuff (and people seem to love picking on things)
2. China (also affecting point 1) - people have a silly by me opinion on chinese made products while generally using alot of well build, in China appliances inntheir daily life without complaining
3. Being a relativelly new brand
They sure sound good for the price at least, while the early adopter may seem like a risk, it feels there is potential for a serious competitor here if the company persist and improves on posible issues reported on these aparently early generation sets
You are correct, and it is worth noting that on 99% of the internet, the negativity is not performance based and largely caused by people who do not own these brakes. 🙂
BTW, Lewis is developing cranks too. A European distributor shared a story, I first mistook them for 5Dev, but he told me it was Lewis, but it is indeed a different design, different look, but still cranks with holes.
I think I saw a peek of those on Bilibili, but haven't heard anything further.
There are no duties on any bike parts coming into Canada. Only complete bikes and wheelsets. Canada Customs should have only charged you GST.
I think you might be right here, and the numbers roughly line up too. Next time I will fix this detail, thank you!
Its funny that Cam Zink a couple days ago told pinkbike (or GMBN) that after Trickstuff stopped supplying him with their brakes He chose Lewis as a sponsor beacause they feel exactly the same and that they are a 100% a rip off of diretissimas/maximas lmao
That is pretty funny.
poor old cam he must have nerve damage in his hands! after riding my LHT's and also trying a set of maximas in a parking lot the trickstuff is far more powerful and the lever actuation is so light compared to my LHT's
Of the two that I have in my possession, they are extremely equal. If anything the LHT might be lighter...
Are these the same as the IIIPRO / OINIRII? Visually they are very similar, other than the colors.
They are 100% different. Timelines, internals and visually. 🙂
You are wild for running a 180 rear rotor in bellingham or wherever you are.
Thankfully not Bellingham! 🇨🇦 And I only weigh 62kg, haha.
“Special offer!” 😂
"For you, my friend, special price"
In the comparison list of your results, there is 380 $ for shimano mt520. But they are availible for exactly 200 € here in germany (discs and pads included). Which is 300 Canadian-Dollar or 220 USD.
How come the big difference?
Haven't a clue haha. I use MSRP, which is the only thing I can really go off, rather than sales/etc. MSRP is also notoriously difficult to find for Shimano products so although I did triple check I could be mistaken.
@@DaleStone Ah that makes sense, didn´t read the MRSP.
Any plans to review the TRP DHR Evo's?
Low on my list, not a huge fan of how weak the power ramp is. I hope their replacements will be out by then!
@@DaleStone you might be surprised after a longer ride. They feel like robust Shimano’s. I use the Gaffer Pro pads though.
i had formula curas 4 and they failed in the middle of the trail
Next up Radic Kahas?
If a local billionaire is willing to adopt me, I'm in.
It's such a mixed bag. It's nice to get a great product for budget cost, but I know the people who created the product are getting ripped. I'd be pissed, but I'm not the creator, I'm the buyer....hold on, trying to find my credit card.
I don't believe that Trickstuff is affected financially by Lewis. They're targeting such different customers that I'm sure the overlap is a rounding error at best. 🙂
There’s a newer model call LHP , those Chinese users claim that it is better than LHT in every way. 😮
I might get a chance to test those out... 👀
Been holding off buying a pair waiting for this review
Glad I held off. I’ll just stick with what I’ve used on all my bikes. Slx or Xt. Saints on my “park,DH bikes”. Thanks Dale. I have a bad habit of impulse buying. This is the one time I’m glad I didn’t. I’m sure these brakes are just fine. But my Shimano are tried, true and tested.
Appreciate your patience. 😆
The lever action being firm is a no go for me. I need super light action, which I get with Formula Cura 4. So I will stick with them, but some other boutique brands are interesting.
The brake pad rattle is a no-go for me.
Also no spare parts availability is silly, I see some retailers offered limited offer life time warranty, this is silly, so basically buy it now and get warranty for a long time. Don't and you won't. Silly marketing.
I want all parts to be easily available to buy. But I think it was a British distributor that claimed they have all spare parts. I don't want to have to ask them for parts, I want to be able to buy what ever I need. But of course having warranty is great. But up selling life time warranty for pre orders is absurd.
Do they take shimano 4 piston pads?
They do not, I believe the Hope E standard is mentioned in the video.
umm... do the Lewis calipers fit shimano hoses?
Not sure, but I believe so?
Can you compare them vs hope 4 v4?
Next year I will!
They seem like good brakes.. interesting they're a "controversial" chinese brand. I'd assumed they were a UK brand because the name sounds British. But also the first time i heard of them was Louise Anna Ferguson, who races for Intense Factory Racing on the UCI DH World Cup, doing a bike check & mentioning how, just like many of the racers now running SRAM Mavens, she had to drop back to 203 rotors from 220 because the brakes were so powerful. This was a bike check at the Crankworx Whistler, Canadian Open on the Stevie Smith 1199 course which is STEEP.. Yes that's right, Intense Factory Racing uses Lewis Brakes. Not sure which model but if the Intense factory team uses them they must be pretty decent..
In my experience with brakes, Magura MT5, SRAM Code Rs, & Shimano XT. The best brake system is Shigura, when you combine the Magura caliper with an XT, XTR, or Saint lever. Combining the 2 systems brings out the best in both of them. The modulation & power of Magura with the snappiness of Shimano, without the carbotecture lever of Magura or the on/off of Shimano. I'd imagine its like Trickstuff or Maven performance for a third the price. And cheaper to get Shimano levers to replace a broken Magura one as theyre prone to do in crashes, as i experienced when my lever body broke after a crash. Mind you it was my 4th crash on the same levers, but the shimano lever bodies wopuld just not break like that. But the Magura calipers are far better than the Shimano calipers with better heat resistance & in my experience the pads last longer.
@@danharvey3096 I've been running a Shigura setup for 2-3 years on one of my bikes, I have to disagree about the modulation bit. IMO the power delivery of a Shigura setup is something like "everything all at once at the beginning of the stroke". Then sometimes you pull harder when you need more power, and it's just not there. It works fine for me, I only notice the lack of modulation when I'm following slower people. Maybe I'm just imagining things, maybe I suck at modulating brakes. But when people who run full Magura setups try my bike, they always comment on how grabby my brakes are.
I also had multiple Shimano levers develop a leak at the master cylinder, and since it's Shimano you can forget about serviceability and spare parts, but that's another story.
IMO a Shigura setup is great when your bike came with those lame MT5 levers, and they feel über powerful in parking lot tests, but they're far from the best brakes out there.
And I haven't even mentioned the constant pad drag that's part of the Magura life. 🙃
Hi, I juste watch your video new lewis video (I saw the one on lewis history too). I used to work a s4 suspension wich is a lewis dealer in Canada. I hade the chance to buy them and receive them in December of 2023. After almost a full season I only encountered two issues. I have a wondering bite point (tho it might be due to my bleeding skills 😅) and the slipping clamp.
I've heard that quite a few people have had wandering bite point experiences, but also that most have been solved with different bleeding techniques. I suspect this is why Lewis revised their instructions/video this year. Glad I didn't encounter anything so far! 🤞
Should probably mention that if anyone is shopping for a set of the Lewis brakes check out S4 Suspension. They are $130 cheaper than some shops, like say Dunbar 🙄, plus free shipping over $150. Added bonus, Hope V4 sintered pads for 23 bucks a set instead of 40. I've bought a couple shocks and a fork from S4 and have had great service. The LHT brakes have been added to my list of upgrades for this winter.
@@reallyfastbiker4077 I’ve enquired s4 about the new lhp’s and they said they wont stock them.. sad
@@Flecktarn108 That's too bad. Hopefully we'll see some other shops bringing them in and not jack the price.
Hey Dale, I'm in the process of installing my LH4s right now! Mine came with the two bolt clamp design, but the threads are VERY rough... Definitely going to run a tap through them as even with the lever off the newly added bolt is stiff (and I think I saw some shavings/flakes fall out of it?) and it's hard to determine how much force you are actually applying to the carbon bars. The new two-bolt clamp doesn't feel up to the same machining quality as the rest of the setup.
Coming from Code RSCs with a Problem Solver MMX adapter for the M8100 shifter, I was in for a surprise when my shifter now doesn't mount to my bike and its the Friday of Thanksgiving long weekend ☹guess I didn't do enough homework on the Lewis Matchmaker adapter, and just assumed I would be able to make it work.
Your videos on the Lewis saga have been phenomenal! Always looking forward to your video releases! 🤙
I've had chips remaining in the threads on brake post mounts of frames before, so having tap chips in the clamps would not be out of line for this industry, haha. Hope you get it solved this weekend!
Most decent mic’s/ audio recording software should have a voice isolation feature. It would eliminate most of the clicks and mouse rubbing you hear in the VO. (Some editing software can remove it after the fact too but it’s a bit of a hassle)
I should probably try a little harder at this, haha.
Cam Zinc is running Lewis brakes, if they're good enough for rampage then they'll be good enough for anyone
I appreciate the sentiment, but that's not how this works either! Nino isn't going to want a rampage brake, for example.
@@DaleStone elaborate!!
An F1 driver doesn't want a minivan, and a vegan doesn't want a steak. Different tools for different riders, locations and almost skill levels.
Yup, I don't dispute that. And my comment didn't mean everyone should use these brakes because he has, there are many things to look at when deciding on the brakes you need.
I was more referring to any of the "cheap Chinese crap" comments that people like to use when a Chinese company put something out.
@@stephendriver1814 haha agreed, they are not that! 🙂
Chinese brakes are almost the only thing I won't buy off aliexpress because as much as I have used and abused the stuff I got from there I am not trusting my life with them and would rather spend a tad more for name brand for the reliability. but chains, grips shifters almost everything else I would 100% buy from Chinese companies
Guess you'll be surprised to hear where some of the name bands outsource their manufacturing to... and these have never been available on AliExpress. 🙂
What trail were you riding?
Too many to name!
ohh you should def complain about the video thing, that's indeed serious and steals revenue from you, hope they compensate you.
As much as I agree, I don't think there is much crossover between the audiences of each platform, especially when you can go full screen with mine. 🙂
7/10 servicability for a brake that took a month to be assembled and had to be imported..? servicability is heavily determined by parts availability (in different countries) in my books.
Serviceability is a combination of how complex, proprietary, and time consuming routing maintenance is (>70%) and the ability to source parts when/if things go wrong (
I'll keep my hope t4v4
And I'll keep my Intend Trinities 🤝
@DaleStone yup anything but these Chinese copies. Everything is sketch with Lewis.
@@rezenclowd3 I can tell you didn't watch either of my videos completely with that take. 🙂
@DaleStone i did and I've dealt with thier PR. Also watch vids of thier cnc facilities. It's disgusting, going to introduce so many flaws.
The funny thing is, that there are already brakes on aliexpress who look like fakes of this one. :D
It's insane how fast some of these companies are able to act.
They're not fakes, it's the same company that makes them. If you're not aware, you can also buy the rights to sell them and use your own brand. You just need to find the right manufacturer.
Unless you have a source for that claim, I've never once found any evidence that confirms it.
Do you have jam jars for eyes as those ali express brakes are not the same...and I'm being politeb
@@ninjazzrhythm400no you can't. Your getting your products wrong
As a fisherman, Lewis is ok in my books. Western folk need to realise most of their stuff is made IN China. Look at your rims. Chill. Thank you Lewis and this channel.
Chitese brands come and go.
Simply because they run their tools without maintenance and quality keeps dropping with later products.
There are exceptions, but they are wery few.
Time will surely tell, but Lewis's cadence of running changes is a positive indicator that this will not be the case.
@dalestone do you have a PO box or business address you can send me. I've got a set of4 pot MTB brakes you will very likely be shocked by in a good way if you review.
I'm interested... And I do actually! Send me an email at dudextr@gmail.com. 🙂
SRAM Code Silver Stealth!
😐
Still expensive. Get the IIIpro IV brakes. It's the same as the lewis brakes with different badge😂. I dont why anyone would pay more 100$ for a set brakes. I told my bro that the pads and rotor is just as more important than the brake set itself. Lever gives everyone that placebo effect because of the tension its feeding back to the rider. Once people figure out that they should use their knuckle and not the tip of their fingers to pull the lever, they will notice less force to pull the levers and less hand fatigue. Aaron Gwin explained this better than I could.
Number two on like a number one on comment