11 MTB Suspension Tips from Jordi Cortes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2024
- If you like to nerd out on MTB suspension knowledge on the internet, then you know Jordi Cortes. Jordi is the Global Race Department Manager for Fox suspension and has decades of experience with the design and setup procedures for high-end suspension.
In this video, Mike interviews Jordi and asks 11 suspension questions that stem from both our customers and curiosity.
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📷 Jordi's Instagram @ / cordijortes
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The Lost Co // www.thelostco.com
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0:00 Intro
2:49 Pro vs Recommended Settings
3:43 Pro Tuning Starting Point
4:31 Should you measure fork sag?
5:51 How does Jordi measure fork sag?
6:51 When to switch components?
7:40 Choosing suspension components?
9:44 Custom eMTB tunes?
11:52 eMTB coil spring rates?
12:52 What is an aggressive rider?
14:19 Setting up compression?
16:44 When to start over with setup?
#mountainbike #foxmtb #mtb - กีฬา
Ask Jordi to bring back Dialed please.
And Loris!
YES!!!
Yes! Dialed was great. Bring it back
@@BockaufBiken Loris is riding rock shox now :/
i agree!! good call
More Dialed please Jordi. Best channel on the toob
BRING BACK DIALED!!! World cup week just isnt the same without it.
Jordi is a suspension treasure. No hem or haw, direct answer on everything. Yes, we need Dialed back!
Jordi is just the best, would be great if more people from the industry would be that honest and straight forward.
Wonderful advice. I tinker way too much and the "you are fastest on what you are most comfortable with" is the quote to live by.
One of the top biking YT channels. Great work.
Awesome job on the interview. Having someone of Jordi's caliber to visit with would be a little intimidating. You both seemed to click very well. Thanks for posting this!
He was super nice! The event was sensory overload and I was sort of just in zombie mode for half of it, haha.
-Mike
You guys are awesome and deserve more credit for the legitimacy of your expertise and online shopping space! I love the transparency and brutal honesty, you guys cut the bs and get to the point for riders.
Thank you so much for the kind words! I seriously appreciate it 😁
-Mike
I agree. Love from Australia
Great job with this video! Strait to the point and explains that there is more potential to the suspension you have then people may think! Keep up the great content 🙌
Awesome guy and answers indeed. Thanks for this!
Always watch any video with Jordi🙌🏻 you asked some really good questions👍🏻
Appreciate the content, Mike! 🙏🏼✌🏼
That was really really good. Thank you so much!
I couldn’t agree more! You’re fastest on what you feel comfortable on.
This was very good and insightful. Awesome.
Love the intro man!
I know we’re focused on suspension settings, but don’t forget yer tire pressure.
Great interview
That was well done.
Joe and Bo from Laguna Beach are so stoked for Laguna Beach Bike Park 🤘
I think its cool that you're asking Jordi all these questions. So thanks for that. It would be nice if you could dig a little deeper into his initial answer as opposed to just hurrying through the questions. I'm sure there is so much additional context that he could expand on.
😎 interview Mike 🤙
Jordi spitting truth with the e-bike suspension. If that was the case, heavy riders would need heavy person suspension because there are people that weight up to 100kg more than some riders using the same suspension. 8:55, you got me.
Hreaff to answers! People overthink their suspension set up. Just because it has clicks and knobs doesn’t mean you have to turn them all the time! I keep mine the same most mov the no matter where I am. Maybe one click either + or - of the original settings pending what I am riding! A tad less low speed for lots of climbing or a tad more high speed if riding downhill. Very simple
I lost almost 30 pounds last winter, and I can't make my suspension work at all now this Spring. 😮
I can't believe how much it's changed!
No offense, but I think you gave Jordi a headache with all the over thinking and over complicating😆👍 Great video!
One thing to watch out for on ebikes is that heavier guys seem to like ebikes and while you may be within spec for a standard fork/shock on a regular bike that extra 20lbs might be pushing you over the edge in terms of max PSI, rebound dampening etc. where a eMTB tuned shock from the factory can give you enough room to fit in that range with cutom shim stacks.
Id wonder. Is there any cross-play between high and low speed ? The High speed rebound on the DHX2 for example feels like its impacting the Low speed rebound as well.
Personally, the best place to start is to make sure both fork and shock have been regularly serviced (unless they are new, of course). SO many people complain about their suspension and play with settings non-stop, only to find out that they haven't serviced them in quite a while. Hell, I just posted yet another fork service video with bone-dry lowers. I've always said that the 50-hour service is the best ROI you can get on a full sus bike. And I'm positive that EVERYONE watching this video can do it. With a little guidance, I'm sure all of you can do a full service to both as well.
A fresh service is absolutely critical to getting a bike feeling right, IMHO!
50 hour service? I'll be servicing my fork every 2 weeks. And I've never had bone dry lowers. That's a separate issue
@@MayerMTB 50 hours is a baseline recommendation. It really depends on the typical conditions you ride in as well as where you ride. All it costs is a bit of oil and grease, plus a few minutes of time to check that all is well and help everything run in top shape.
Also, if you're riding nearly 4 hours a day for 14 days on one bike (~50 hours), then I want your job. I help maintain a 20-mile trail (which I'm about to go trim again right after I type this) that I ride a minimum of three times a week, not including riding other trails in my area each week. And I don't come ANYWHERE near 50 hours a month per bike. Most people I know are barely able to ride 50 hours a season due to work and family.
@@zoubtube haha yeah. I'm definitely a little above average. Been a van life mountain biker for the last 5 years. Have plenty of time. For the average mountain biker that's probably 2 services a year. I'm at about 3 or 4.
It’s not the difficulty of the job, it’s the cost of the fox tools/clamp. Some of them are just insane
@@spudvader For a full service, that can be the case in SOME instances. But the 50-hour service requires very little money and time and has a high return. Most people are intimidated by both types of services. My plan is to help them with this. 👍
Have a quick question I have an iso core one coming and it doesn't have a lockout shock in the rear and has a pike base in the front should I spend the extra 400 and get the one with the fox float 34 front and rear? I have two other bikes one has a Manitou mastodon with all the adjustments available in a 34 rhythm with all the adjustments available but I don't know the difference between what they do or cannot feel the difference while riding only thing I've ever done was fully lock out a couple times Any tips and suggestions will be greatly appreciated running long gravel Road terrain trails that break off from that I went with the izzo because it's a faster machine but still handle lot
Hi there, I'm 42 and MTB my entire life.
Personally I would go with the Core 2 and spend the extra 400 (if you can). You buy a full suspension bike for, well, the suspension after all. And the fox 34 float performance grip and the Fox float Perf. is just a better overall suspension system for that bike.
The rear has a Open, Medium and firm mode that you can select and those kind of bikes really like the medium (traction mode) for climbing and trail systems. In my experience you use the medium setting 80% of the time and the fully open for rowdy decent, the firm settings is a nice bonus for sprints or on tarmac.
Another Bike is this category would be the Specialized Stumpjumper Carbon Comp ( currently on sale since a new release of this bike is coming). with 140mm and 130mm.
All that being said the core 1 is perfectly fine and you could save that money for future upgrades down the line ( for another front tire maybe or the rear SX derailleur which can be a weak point).
Overall the Drivetrain is slightly better on the Core 2 and less prone to failure and shifts a little bit better.
---> Fox 34 Rhythm (that you already have) and fox 34 float performance are basically the same. The Rhythm is just a bit heavier and maybe....5% less smooth since a small oil bypass is missing on that fork ;).
In the future in one or two years you could replace the grip damper with a grip2 or the new grip x2 and have even more settings in that fork without replacing the fork just the damper in it (google). But that is not necessary, just an option.
Cheers from Switzerland
I think that that they make less Ebike optimized shocks is because they beefed
up the shocks to handle both and the adjustability is there. I think you might find that if you took a rider and had a ebike version and a non ebike version of the same bike the setting might be a little different even thou it's the same rider
Aggressive Rider here!
So aggressive that you're a public threat at this point 👊
I've always wondered how consistent are individual examples of a product, like, if I get two brand new identical 180mm 38s, and set them up with the same pressure/spacers/clicks, will they feel exactly the same? Or is there some small variation that might require setting up each one specifically?
I’d say that tolerances in manufacturing is so small that the average rider couldn’t tell the difference 🤷♂️
Wonder what Jordi’s thoughts are on shockwiz
ShockWiz if from Sram group (if I'm not mistaken) so... whe probably know the answer hahahaha😂
I have a question.
my rock shox domain doesnt seem to want to hit full travel unless the lowers have negative pressure?
the "zip tie" trick. should this be done when the fork is fully aired up (0 pressure in the lowers), or when the fork has no air in the main chamber. (making the air in the lowers at negative pressure when the fork is aired up ?
it seems im either have to deal with fork suck and excess brake dive , or not being able to use all my travel.
the damper on this fork really sucks, unless its on the last two or three clicks it has no purpose so i cant really rely on damping to tune it.
any help or ideas would be appreciated.
Is it a new fork? If not when was it last serviced?
@@Shralps it was new in the box from jenson to me.
what im talking about is not on the trail, its when i empty the air chamber itself.
i had noticed it when i was checking for tokens, so the air cap was off.
at that point i hadnt done and zip tie trick, but when i did , the lowers were holding positive pressure... hiss out of both legs. so it had packed air over time, or come like that from jenson. that still didnt get me to the "max travel" line.
yesterday though, i did actually manage to get it to go to this line but only after i emptied and filled the air and cycled the shock a few times. this is after "burp the seals" so no negative pressure in the lowers. it may feel better for the moment, dont know/have much hope for it
its due for service but i wouldnt say late.
plan on doing it this month.
always felt inconsistent from day 1. was never able to go more than 15 % sag without scary amounts of brake dive.
I think the most important thing for a new fork, is to get it serviced and the bushings calibrated. No amount of knob twiddling with remedy the low oil levels, tight bushings or grease loaded air spring that all (especially Fox) are guilty of.
The Lost co.? like the Surf company?
Yeah. SO bummed there's no "Dialed" this year.
Thank you Jordi!
I always said that the weight argument for e.g. e-bike specific handlebars was total BS! I am 115kg an 2m myself. I ride the same bike since 12 years. The only components i changed (not 1:1 exchange) were a wheel i destroyed and grips.
Instead of "e-bike specific" BS I would much rather see bike companies use realistic system weights. If you make bikes up to an XL or XXL, chances are you get heavier riders. So just make the system weights allow for 130-150 kg. Otherwise i would challenge the bike companies to find riders that are 2m tall and never exceed the system weight which is specified...
Can I ask the suspension folks out there a question about volume reducers in forks? As far as using them to increase small bump sensitivity (Fox 34 Grip2); is the gain in sensitivity when adding spacers only because you can run a bit less pressure without bottoming out, or is a smaller amount of air volume actually easier to compress at the top? Would it feel more or less small bump sensitive with more spacers at the same pressure? Thanks!
i'm not an expert, but I consider them to make the fork more playful / poppy given the same pressure. my fork had 4 factory tokens, i tried 0 tokens and 7 tokens to see what the differences are at the extreme ends (pressure was the same). I found 7 tokens to be more fun and playful. I now ride with 7(max) tokens. I'm not really sure about the technical side of things, but i would just play around (keep pressure the same) and see what you like.
Thanks!
Yes, I ride DH predominantly but my trail bike has a 36 mm fork. If you can find the sweet spot with volume spacers you will definitely utilize your travel more efficiently, comfortably and you will notice better small bump sensitivity. On my 36 grip 2 I run 6 volume spacers because I ride it pretty reckless and hit big jumps, drops etc… but I weigh 170 lbs and run 6 volume spacers. If I was you I’d buy the spacers and experiment in 2 spacer increments to find your sweet spot. Hope this helps.
Thanks so much. I’m 170lbs and ride pretty gently nowadays- I’m getting back into riding trails after a few years off from some health stuff and I’m so excited to be on the trails again. I have 2 tokens in there right now but I’ll experiment with more and see if I can get it to feel even better on my hands. I appreciate the feedback.
Honest question: Why are you referring to “normal” bikes as “acoustic”? Acoustics specifically refers to audio or sound. Do you mean analog? As in analog vs digital? (Vinyl records vs Spotify)
I think the term "acoustic" just stems from guitars - electric or acoustic. Analog, acoustic, normal, regular... Take your pick on whatever you think is either most accurate or most fun to say!
-Mike
I watched a video and the fox tech dude said the exact opposite of this video, he was saying adjust the bike to how you’re feeling and the terrain. You adjust the bike for the rider, not conform to the bike.
Bring back Dialed please
So this guy is saying that custom valving is BS? I weigh 255 lbs and I have to run everything high pressure, high compression dampening, and slow rebound. Wouldn't valving optimize the product to get me more in the middle of damping ranges?
is there anybody who runs compresions fully open all the time. I was thinking about put less air and then add compresion...
My dude used cattywampus casually in conversation… holy moly
It's my goal to use that word at least once a day.
-Mike
Second time this week ive heard someone describe a non ebike as "acoustic" shouldn't it be analogue?
Both are ridiculous terms. Mountain bike and ebike are just fine.
We call non e-bikes “steam bikes” , probably because the riders work harder and steam alot😂
It's a Mountain Bike.
I prefer “Amish” for a regular bike
He keeps saying to follow the process... Do you have a link to the process he keeps recommending?
manufacturer's manual
@@Eternalbuble Jordi says he has no idea how the specs in the manual were developed and he doesn't use it. LOL
Sag. Rebound. Compression. In that order every time.
Im running a Fox Factory 36 at 160mm. I just bought a Fox 38 Factory at 170mm.
I hope I didn't make a wrong choice because I am looking for more stiffness and travel without spacers.
that will do both, the 38 is much stiffer and plusher than the 36
So many wrong recommendations on here.. I've noticed Jordi just says random shit.. unless he is doing the video..
How much to set up my suspension Jordi?!
I have the problem of messing with my suspension when I'm tired, thinking I could compensate on my setup to account for this. Not going to do that anymore.
Joedi rulz, the interviewer is... all over the place
Haha I'm generally all over the place, but even more so at this very wild and jam-packed event at Fox that day!
-Mike
More Dialed. The end.
Is that a wig Mike? I recall your hair was shorter to conform to the corporate Mike look.
Shock set-up all seems common sense to me....Simple....Ha!!
10:45 I've got a moto background and it's the same there? people get so lost in the numbers and parts trying to improve their bike performance by shaving weight or finding the perfect setup thinking it's going to be the saviour? Rather than spending $2k to save 3kg on your bike or get better suspension? How's about getting fitter and losing weight or working on your own technique?
Blows my mind that the interview "had really thought about it"
No stiffer spring on ebikes isn't what he said. He said sag would be the same, and the weight of the bike adds to the rider. Therefore, an ebike is like hopping on a regular bike with 20lbs on your back. At which point setting by sag would require a stiffer spring...
The process of measuring sag on an ebike is the same as a regular bike. The additional weight is not on your back, it is attached to the bike. If I'm 150 pounds and hop on two bikes, one regular bike and one eMTB, then there is still 150 pounds sitting on top of the bike and compressing the suspension.
Preferences on the trail are totally different, though. If you choose to ride a stiffer spring with less sag (or vice versa) then that is just totally personal preference. This is unrelated to measuring sag.
The reason that I asked this questions is because we have tons of phone calls every day from folks who ran their information through a spring calculator and then ask "Should I add 50 to 100 pounds to the spring rate since it's an eMTB?". There is no need to start with a stiffer spring from a calculator's recommendation as it is based off of rider weight which is unrelated to the bike's weight.
-Mike
Sag is the amount the suspension compresses with the weight of the sprung mass in the system, that includes the bike, and in the case of emtbs, the battery and motor. If your sag calculator isn't using all the sprung mass in its calculation then it's wrong. Hence needing to increase spring weight.
TH-cam and racing isnt the same without dialled
Ok, but... the real question is: when a manufacturer says 20% sag, what do they mean?! Rockshox put that stick on the stanchions, how do they want us to set the sag??
Looks like all the AgGrEsSiVe RiDeRs have gone pretty quiet in the comments of this video. How unusual 😂
There is a reason why Loris Vergier got kicked out 😂
how come I never hear of riders changing shim stacks in mtb? In the moto world on and off road they are always changing shim stacks. I always get the impression from Jordi that the pro are using the same internals as the average joe and that the pros just have different clicker settings. I don't believe that is true.
Those gold colored fork lowers are forking ugly. I feel better after saying that.
all that R&D money and they can't get bushings tightness right
Unfortunately, too often true. I don't think it is only fox though.
exactly or stop putting a pound of slick honey in the air spring at assembly. Yet it's all in the rider's head per Jordi, the suspension is perfect! LOL Does anyone really think his racers are on stock suspension right out of the factory.
@@JoeS97756they put all the grease in there so that they don’t need to put any on the wiper seals 🙄 (they come totally dry from the factory)
I've listened to a lot of videos with Jordi and frankly have never come away with anything useful. If there is no standard for how you measure sag then what is the purpose of even doing it?
Because as I said..sag is relative. If you do it seated or standing it doesn’t matter. What matters is you do it exactly the same every time you do it. Sag is a starting point not the final point.
@@jordicortes4993 Blah, blah blah, a meaningless word salad, just like the video.
@@JoeS97756 You just lack listening skills... The point (as Jordi explained) is to record the place you started and wherever it is you settle (pressure and percentage). This is so you know where your happy place is and how to get there. All that matters is the consistency of how you do this. There is no magic book that can tell you your optimal sag/pressure, you have to find it for yourself.
@@willdabeast410 I listen just fine. The whole point of sag is a starting point. So when the Fox manual says start at 20% sag, what does that mean if there is no agreement on how to measure it?
ericS977 should collect marbles instead…seems like more his style
Real vs. E-evil.
Acoustic is sound waves.
did they just call normal bikes acoustic bikes 😆
Ooooo...lostco hired a hot blonde!
all the testing but X2 is still total 💩
The term accoustic bike makes me cringe when I hear it. It's a frickin mountain bike
If a rider refers to themselves as "aggressive," then odds are they could ride a smaller fork. 🤣
Would be funny if it was found out that Jordi has no fucking clue what he’s on about
I think he says the easiest possible answer to do the least amount of work in interviews. He totally contradicts himself many times. Biggest issue people run into is pressure vs damper capability (this is way more an issue with MX but same concept).. then stiffness... If you are 220lbs and running a 36.. the fork will flex so bad that it will bind and barely work.
Agree, never get anything out of watching his interviews. Supposedly he's a legend, shrug.
Which international MTB racing teams do you guys provide advice to? 😂🤡🤡🤡