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Marvel Studios' line up of shows on Disney+ have been advertised as the same adventures featured in the films, but in a television format. Surely, this new endeavor means more storytelling opportunities for the superhero giant. But... what if I told you these weren't the first TV shows under Marvel's belt?
Let's talk about Marvel Television (Marvel TV), the ugly step-child of the MCU. Are they canon or not? Why were they made? Why were they better than the Disney+ shows?
We'll be comparing and contrasting stories, characters, writing styles, and more between the two camps of Marvel programming. This includes Marvel's Agents of SHIELD, Agent Carter, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders, The Punisher, Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, Inhumans, and Helstrom on the Marvel TV side. And WandaVision, Falcon & the Winter Soldier, Loki, Hawkeye, Moon Knight, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, Secret Invasion, and Echo on Disney+.
I have evidence to prove definitely that the Marvel TV shows ARE CANON.
Edited by: / kiwingly
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all the shows are so deeply connected, even if it’s not noticeable on the surface level, so by making one show canon, marvel has made them all canon. as much as marvel has attempted to de-canonise AoS, or just done it accidentally (with things such as the darkhold being found in WandaVision and Laura Barton being Agent 19), it has to be canon.
@starartemis agreed. Just the films by themselves have inconsistency issues that people look past but when one thing comes up with Marvel TV, it's suddenly non-canon. 🙄
The two things you listed are also pretty easy to explain. Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness explains there are multiple copies of the Darkhold and WandaVision's director says they're the same book (which holds up in that they're the same book, just different copies).
And the Agent 19, can easily be explained as it being a title/position that gets passed on to whomever assumes it. By the time Agents of SHIELD season 2 introduces Bobbie Morse/Mockingbird, it lines up with Age of Ultron introducing Hawkeye's family. Laura Barton simply just retired and lost her watch lmao.
To be fair, Pre Disney+ shows are Actual TV shows. While Disney+ shows are more like long movies cut into multiple parts.
Plus it didn't help that they didn't have a showrunner for them either.
I feel at that point, they should just make them movies. I just feel like they don't really take advantage of the medium.
That's literally what happened. I'm not sure if it was stated by someone or just speculated, but it absolutely feels like Falcon and the Winter Soldier was basically a movie until it got stretched for the TV Show medium to capitalize on Disney+, it's safe to assume that the higher ups at Marvel thought that making a TV Show was as easy as putting the same writters and producers that are specialized on making movies to make a TV Show, and without any form of showrunner. That's mainly why I've got my hopes up with Born Again and Agatha Coven of Chaos, Marvel finally realized what was happening, and divided the studio into a more specialized area named Marvel Television (Hopefully they hired actual good writters this time).
Wandavision, Loki, MoonKnight and What If…? were the only Disney Plus shows that I actually thought were worth watching. I do really wanna be excited for Daredevil: Born Again but I’m still cautious since the original is literally the best show to come out of the entire Marvel franchise.
I'll be honestly sad if they mess up Born Again. Like this'll be the final proof that Marvel does not know what they're doing with the stuff they have, and they already have very godamn well developed characters like Kingpin or Matt, safe to say that they brought back THE BEST AUDIOVISUAL FORM OF CONTENT that's EVER come out of Marvel, and if still, with all this, they mess it up, I'll be giving up on them 100%.
I think Marvel TV (especially AoS) holds the key to getting phase 4 and the x-men done right. Fitzsimmons is a perfect example of how a couple like Scott and Jean could work (i.e. these two were always meant to be and everyone knows it) + the AoS team was always closer than the Avengers, and the X-men needs to be more like the shield team in terms of closeness.
I feel like the Disney Plus shows have a higher budget but less quality writing. The character moments hit way more in the Marvel tv shows. Agents of Shield and Daredevil alone clear the Disney plus shows.
Agreed. It's a pretty clear cut quality over high budget flashy VFX.
for AOS the assumption is that it is cannon until around season 5 but then is becomes an alternate reality where Thanos was stopped in infinity war(snap didn't happen)
I feel like they were pretty clear that it *dips out* and more importantly *dips back* into canon. They leave the sacred timeline in season 5 (somehow without the TVA stepping in), but after two seasons worth of shenanigans, they travel back through the Quantum realm. They avoided Thanos' snap simply by being in a different timeline altogether. I think even Loki supports this by showing that the stones have no effect at the TVA. While, the TVA has it's own quirks with magic, it implies that they still have limited reach within that particular universe/timeline. Should the stones be brought to wherever timeline the AoS crew were in, then they'd be screwed. There's also comic precedence as well where the stones work in their respective pockets of the multiverse.
I think Agents of Shield is canon to the Multiverse. Could also be canon after Endgame when Loki took the Tesseract
16:55 : Yeah, it did seem as if they went with the 'default' (and somewhat stereotypical) "Native American MUST know Magic" thing. I'm not the 'Comic Book Guy", but off my head I can't recall a Native American Superhero who doesn't have magical abilities (Marvel has 'Shaman" and 'Talisman" from 'Alpha Flight', both use magical powers/talismans). Even Temporarily Dead mutant "Thunderbird" had some kind of 'Super Tracking Ability" in addition to his mid-tier super-strength.
For sure. I may not be Native American so I can't comment on that front. But as a fan, I just liked her as regular ass kicker. She was already very cool. It's like giving Iron Man a gun. Fine the way it is, you don't need to add anything.
I might not agree with you on some things but aos is def canon
I don't need anyone to agree with me haha, but I'm glad we do have some common ground. AoS for sure is canon!
Honestly i still would've love an agents of shield/defenders crossover(that we never got).
Never Say Never! (1/10000 chance)
Loved Daredevil seasons 1 and 3, thought season 2 was mid.
Jessica Jones season 1 was good, season 2 was meh, season 3 bleh.
Luke Cage was very mixed. When it wasn't good, it was boring, but when it was good, it was REALLY good.
Iron Fist is overhated in my opinion. Yeah, it's not really a good series, but I don't think it deserves the level of vitriol it got. Hell, season 2 was an improvement imo.
I could not get past 3 eps of Punisher, it was so boring.
Defenders was disappointing, but fun!
Overall, Daredevil's my favorite of Marvel TV. Though I've yet to watch the other shows outside of Ghost Rider clips from AOS.
Do try to give AoS a try. For me it rivals with Daredevil as a whole in quality.
Good video. I can understand your issues with the shows. I've enjoyed the shows on Disney +, granted they do have some issues, but I still enjoy them. As for my favorite, Daredevil is still my favorite since he was the hero I read the comics of, though Falcon and The Winter Soldier is my Disney + show, since I love the Cap Trilogy.
Defenders is officially cannon as well as punisher shows i think could be cannon someday are cloak and dagger and agents carter and to be honest thats it i love the other shows but it wpuldnt make sence to make them cannon
I see the pre-D+ Marvel TV shows as canon in the same way the DC’s Vertigo titles are canon to the main DC Comics universe; like Neil Gaiman’s Sandman is very clearly set in the DC Universe but the stories of Dream and the Endless will rarely ever be mentioned in the Justice League books, if ever.
Setting that aside, I honestly miss the days when Marvel’s TV shows were stand alone stories that vaguely referenced the movie events. It’s become too much of a chore to keep up with all the shows along with the movies. Though I do love some of the Disney+ shows like Loki, WandaVision and Ms Marvel.
Interesting you bring that up cause ironically, for a shared universe, it's much better when they aren't constantly referencing eachother. I loved the standalone nature of the Marvel TV shows. It's possible for these shows to exist alone without shoehorning an overt reference to the other. Idk, it felt like a reward catching a reference in Marvel TV versus the eye-roll fest on Disney+
@@mintbari I tottaly get your point. Until maybe about 6 months ago I had never watched a single Marvel TV piece of content, nothing on netflix, abc or hulu, but after the debacle that has been Marvel for the past few years, and given the stuff people said about the shows, I decided to give it a try and OMG did it feel like a GIANT breath of fresh air. It honestly feels rewarding whenever a mainline MCU film it's refferenced, or even when a Netflix show is, it's like your watching AoS, immersed on it's world you start to forget it's even connected, and then they remind you with a semi obscure refference that you understand and you can't help but smile, sometimes it's a little more obvious but it still feels a lot more rewarding and satisfying than watching a mediocre show like She-Hulk and have Daredevil appear like "Hey guuuyss, remeber this guy? You like him a lot so best like this show huh?" or like "Heyyy guuys! We've seen you're mad about the GIANTS BODY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN not being talked about enough, so we decided to put a tiny little article here! And remeber, this is still the MCU!!"
Power rangers & now marvel? Hell yes, glad you’re expanding the channel content 👍
Thanks! Really trying to branch out!
power rangers is actually an adaptation of the Japanese show called Super Sentai.
I'm still working my way thru the pre-Disney+ era. There were a lot of superhero shows airing at the time and it became too much so I dropped everything but AOS (my favorite show). I disagree with your view on Loki and how those characters are shallow, because I could very much see why Loki did what he did to save them. Everything else was spot on though. Doesn't help that the shows weren't created in the way TV shows are supposed to, but basically shot like movies and fixed up in post production.
It was definitely a lot even as it was airing. But for a while, there were stretches where you there'd be new Marvel content every week for months. Definitely do work your way through.
I just couldn't see it with Loki personally. I think the characters have something interesting going on but it's the interpersonal relationships that's lacking for me. Mobius and Loki is the closest but to me, I felt like the pay off in S1 of their trust dynamic was easy to spot a mile away so it didn't feel genuine to me. Had the Sylvie storyline not happened and they went all in with the buddy-cop duo thing, I'd have been fine. Speaking of, the Sylvie stuff was just too weird for me haha.
@@mintbari oh the Sylvie stuff is weird for sure, but I just pretend they're not the same person and ignore that part.
I think another reason that it hit hard for me is because of how similar it felt to another show where the protagonist goes as just as far for his friends that Loki does. Could be a bias on my part.
And I seen most of them. Just have to finish a couple final seasons and start Runaways
@NeiyonSpyder that's hard for me to ignore lol. It's like kissing a girl and ignoring she's your sister 🤢. A bit too "Alabama" for my liking
@@mintbari valid 😂😂😂
Thanos' snap didn't happen in AOS, no one got dusted, so it's a branch or variant timeline.
Did you even watch the show?
This is late but they left the timeline during the snap. They were in a different timeline for the first half of s5. They were also hopping timelines until the last episode of s7. I am not sure how it lines up but if they ever wanted to bring agents back it’s easy to chalk it up to them being in a different universe either is s5 or S7. Fitz even acknowledges endgame by using the same time traveling tech through the quantum realm as the avengers.
I love the marvel television shows and I’d love them all to be canon.(not you inhumans) they have passion and have interesting and unique characters something marvel seems to have forgotten. Also new sub.
(In The Tolerator's voice from ExplosmEntertainment.) How can you not love Inhumans? It's super diverse, don't be racist.
Oh wow. Ike Perlmutter was right 😄😄
I liked AoS until the HYDRA VR story arc.
Whaaaat? That's one of the best storylines! But I can see why you'd see that, especially considering it's preceded by two really good story arcs with Ghost Rider and the LMDs.
Just curious MintBari . Besides TWICE, what other Kpop artists do you like?
I only recently got into K-pop in the last few years. I don't really follow any other K-pop artists so it's more individual songs that I really like. SNew Jeans (Hype Boy, Super Shy, OMG), Somi (Fast Forward, Birthday), NiziU (Coconut, Heartris), G-Idle (Queen Card). I have had Magnetic by Illit stuck in my head thanks to TikTok. I just don't really follow anyone to the point where I keep track of their newest releases, other than TWICE.
At 8:48 Brad was talking about Defenderverse not AoS.
Doesn't mean the door isn't open for it. Also, the Defenderverse has a ton of references to AoS and Cloak & Dagger.
@@mintbari
If one show is canon then ALL shows are canon.
No they aren't?
Show executive literally says they are lol.
Yes they are.