I never despised the writing of the later seasons much, but the choice to go to a sort of found-footage shaking camera all the time and go for "realistic" shots (Leo over the shoulder of someone blocking half the screen, Will and Donna extremely backlit so they're just hazy silhouettes) really killed the vibe of the show.
well Sorkin came back for the seventh season, fifth season was just bad apart from the Supremes, goddamn NBC management didn't know what they were doing when they forced Sorkin out.
@@woodwyrm Sorkin didn't "come back" for the seventh season -- he merely appeared in the inauguration scene. He had no writing involvement in the show beyond the early episodes of the fifth season, which he advised on informally to get the replacement team past the cliffhanger he'd bequeathed to them. Judgements of the fifth season suffered/suffer mainly from viewer confirmation bias -- the quality of the writing barely dipped, if viewed objectively, despite fans' expectations that it couldn't possibly go on without Sorkin. The first four seasons are regarded by fans as if they were close to Shakespearean perfection, but there are plenty of glitches visible, if one looks. They were forgiven at the time, and since, because the overall quality was so unprecedented. And to say he was "forced out" by NBC management ignores the well-known reasons for his departure: dissatisfaction about a salary restructure (which affected not only him), plus, and mainly, personal burnout due to the massive amount of cocaine required to be the show's principle writer. The guy was a mess by the end of season four. (And the cast have often spoken (with rueful affection) of the chaotic conditions they were working under with him leading the writing -- scripts arriving late, on-set revisions, etc.) Sorkin has real genius when it comes to creating and scripting political dramas, no doubt about it, but he has his flaws, and the writing team that followed him was an extremely capable group of top professionals. Look at season five with an objective eye, and that's borne out. IMHO 😊
@@ianboyle1026the main problem with season five, IMO, is that they were forced to start with resolving a cliffhanger, rather than a low stakes episode to get their feet wet. So they spent several episodes playing catch-up, but by Shutdown they got into a pretty solid groove. Also, the line in Studio 60 about how anyone trying to write a weekly show by himself would go insane was some grade A self-reference.
@@Jurgan6 Yeah you could be right about the cliffhanger problem, although I did feel it was handled pretty well -- having the House Speaker take over, the GOP people interacting with the regular staff, etc, all that stuff had a solid ring to it. And it was well done that the Speaker and Jed ended on a mutually respectful note, which viewers I think endorsed, because although bombastic and gung-ho, as written Glen Allen Walken did do a worthy job. "Presidential". I was also fine with the consequent rift between Jed and Abby as a result, which of course grew out of the revelation of him ordering the assassination. I must say I'd forgotten that line in Studio 60, but yes, you're exactly right.
Leo: "So please someone talk to somebody and please figure this mess out soon before the president gets here and is forced to pick sides!" Me: Barlet should have gotten on a plane and IMMEDIATELY arrived at the convention to pick a side DURING the 2nd ballot.
This was crazy! Why not just appoint someone and forget the voters. Just pick a candidate, ignoring the democratic process. But that would be true fiction and could never happen.
![[ TEASER ] เงาะป่า - วงL.กฮ. | TMG RECORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M4ObdFfcPww/mqdefault.jpg)
"I think Aaron Burr has 20 votes." That is amazing.
Yeah that makes me laugh every time
And Burr shot a guy!
I never despised the writing of the later seasons much, but the choice to go to a sort of found-footage shaking camera all the time and go for "realistic" shots (Leo over the shoulder of someone blocking half the screen, Will and Donna extremely backlit so they're just hazy silhouettes) really killed the vibe of the show.
well Sorkin came back for the seventh season, fifth season was just bad apart from the Supremes, goddamn NBC management didn't know what they were doing when they forced Sorkin out.
@@woodwyrm Sorkin didn't "come back" for the seventh season -- he merely appeared in the inauguration scene. He had no writing involvement in the show beyond the early episodes of the fifth season, which he advised on informally to get the replacement team past the cliffhanger he'd bequeathed to them.
Judgements of the fifth season suffered/suffer mainly from viewer confirmation bias -- the quality of the writing barely dipped, if viewed objectively, despite fans' expectations that it couldn't possibly go on without Sorkin. The first four seasons are regarded by fans as if they were close to Shakespearean perfection, but there are plenty of glitches visible, if one looks. They were forgiven at the time, and since, because the overall quality was so unprecedented.
And to say he was "forced out" by NBC management ignores the well-known reasons for his departure: dissatisfaction about a salary restructure (which affected not only him), plus, and mainly, personal burnout due to the massive amount of cocaine required to be the show's principle writer. The guy was a mess by the end of season four. (And the cast have often spoken (with rueful affection) of the chaotic conditions they were working under with him leading the writing -- scripts arriving late, on-set revisions, etc.)
Sorkin has real genius when it comes to creating and scripting political dramas, no doubt about it, but he has his flaws, and the writing team that followed him was an extremely capable group of top professionals. Look at season five with an objective eye, and that's borne out.
IMHO 😊
@@ianboyle1026the main problem with season five, IMO, is that they were forced to start with resolving a cliffhanger, rather than a low stakes episode to get their feet wet. So they spent several episodes playing catch-up, but by Shutdown they got into a pretty solid groove.
Also, the line in Studio 60 about how anyone trying to write a weekly show by himself would go insane was some grade A self-reference.
@@Jurgan6 Yeah you could be right about the cliffhanger problem, although I did feel it was handled pretty well -- having the House Speaker take over, the GOP people interacting with the regular staff, etc, all that stuff had a solid ring to it. And it was well done that the Speaker and Jed ended on a mutually respectful note, which viewers I think endorsed, because although bombastic and gung-ho, as written Glen Allen Walken did do a worthy job. "Presidential".
I was also fine with the consequent rift between Jed and Abby as a result, which of course grew out of the revelation of him ordering the assassination.
I must say I'd forgotten that line in Studio 60, but yes, you're exactly right.
If it was possible and legal President Bartlett could have gotten some votes.
Exactly, no one WANTED to see Bartlett leave office.
It would've been entirely legal for delegates to vote for Bartlett.
oh god why did this have to pop up in my feed after last nights debate
Leo: "So please someone talk to somebody and please figure this mess out soon before the president gets here and is forced to pick sides!"
Me: Barlet should have gotten on a plane and IMMEDIATELY arrived at the convention to pick a side DURING the 2nd ballot.
It would take at least six hours for AFO to get Bartleby to San Diego for the convention.
its one thing to have the president announcing his successor. its another thing to have him so blatantly playing kingmaker.
Possibly coming soon to a convention near you, except way, way dumber
Well this was...prophetic.
Wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy dumber
Turns out partially true, but it looks like the Dem party now is more organized.
I enjoyed the last 2 seasons....especially all the campaign stuff 👍👍
At 2:03, Al Bundy has a new job: Santos staffer!
I only wish that presidential nominees were chosen in an open convention instead of the morally corrupt primarily system being used currently.
So, you want party officials in a backroom choose their next nominee instead of voters in the states?
@@danielk5780 That's what Superdelegates already do... Except they do it in secret, instead of openly during the convention.
Be careful what you wish for
Al Bundy for president. 😂
He scored 4 touchdowns in one game 👍👍👍
Completely forgot Jay was on this show
Back when there were young candidates to eat. 😢
What is Jay Pritchett doing in the West Wing?
Aaron Burr > Bob Russell
YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT, PERCY
Who here after Biden drop out?
And the Dems still win.
can they just keep the damn camera still for one minute!
Topical . . . .
Shaky cam can never mask shaky writing. Main lesson of the post-Sorkin era of West Wing.
What’s with the shaky cam?
It was the thing at the time.
Taking cues from 24
It's a psychological trick to emphasise the urgency of the situation
There was an earthquake in the area where the set was.
I don’t like it either nut it is effective in these sorts of scenes (I guess)
Life imitates art?
No. Just The West Wing.
This was crazy! Why not just appoint someone and forget the voters. Just pick a candidate, ignoring the democratic process. But that would be true fiction and could never happen.
ha ha ha no cell phones
Was cnn less bias in tww
What a tart.
backdoor deals... disgusting. Alas, this is part of our political environment.