Same. Lots of very bent pieces, chunks taken out, cracks that almost completely go through the wood... knots over 50% of the size of the piece itself. it is kind of ridiculous having to dig through the huge pile and spend 30mins just to get a few straight pieces, I feel like I am working for free for the big box store LOL
@@dewaynemartin6437 Problem is, for old timers who have been in the construction business for a long time, our current lumber sucks compared to what they were used to. The reason is that it isn't made from those old forest trees anymore, but mostly from plantation trees, cut at a fairly young age, which makes for more sapwood-heartwood mixed boards with lots of knots, and that is a recipe for an unstable wood. Small price to pay for the environnement, imo.
I've not studied it much, but I know you can do your own electrical and plumbing work yourself. It's when you make a profit doing it for others that you need a license. I believe that the same applies to building your own home. If it's for personal use, they can't force codes on you. If it's to sell or rent, it has to be to code. The main issue with your personal home is that the electric company and other utilities can require you to meet code before providing service. I got 2 driving on suspended, expired tags, improper tags and no insurance tickets dismissed in May. Learn the law, a license is only needed for commerce / professions.
I am a sawmill owner in Tennessee. We have the Tennessee Native Species Lumber Act here which was advocated by a friend of mine and sawmill owner as well. It allows any person to use homestead timber or lumber to use and be exempt from state or local codes.
Might have to find me a nice little spot in Tennessee then cause i would like to cut my own lumber and build my own buildings plus home and grow the trees back
My dad built the house I grew up in here in southern West Virginia in 1955. His dad had a sawmill and my dad milled all of the structural lumber use in that house. He only bought things like siding and tongue and groove flooring. My dad still lives there and is now 91 years old and the house is still as straight and solid as it was when first built.
@@debbiesalo6771 In the old days, it was the actual finished size. Now what I want to know is how do you size a floor joist that is a whole tree with just the floor side cut smooth? :-) And do you count the bark as it has been there for over 200 years? :-D
That's wonderful, but it shows selection/survivorship bias. What percent of houses built in 1955 are still standing straight? Very few. Mine was built in 1958, and I'm the second owner. The late builder's widow didn't keep up with termite treatments, so we bought it cheap knowing we'd have a lot of repairs ahead. There are tons of foundations nearby of houses not built to last.
@@PatrickKQ4HBD You'd be lucky to get 1 shovel of portland cement to 8 shovels of sand and gravel which would be equivalent to 200 PSI concrete on most of them.
I just finished building my uncle a cabin out in Amish Country. All of the framing Lumber was green Douglas fir actual dimensional Lumber. That wood is so hard that you almost have to pre-drill to get screws into it and hand nailing is damn near impossible. I will say if you wanted to finish it with drywall it would be damn near impossible with the way the Greenwood changes. But I finished the entire thing in tongue and groove white pine. It's 800 square feet and I used over 25,000 Nails just on the finishing wood. I have no idea how many went into the framing. Suffice it to say I believe if a tornado hit it could pick that thing up and move it and it would still all be in one piece. Today's lumber at the big stores doesn't even come close to the strength of what I used. Most of the farm houses in my area just used the lumber on the land. I've had to do work where I'm drilling through 14 in of hard maple which makes up the rim joist / sill plate. Anytime they make regulations about what you're allowed to do when it comes to building your own home it's just so some fat cat can line his pockets and not have competition from the little guys who actually do it better. So far as I can tell. One way to get around the bullshit is to build it as a pole building on pylons. March project was set on eight by eight every six feet.
I'm telling ya, the things a guy can learn on You Tube when you bite on a suggested video. Your presentation pulled me into the whole 17 and a half minutes. Now I know. ☺ Thanks.
We built the cabin we live in out of rough sawn GREEN lumber from an Amish sawmill. We have lived in it for 9 years and all is well so far. We used a book called "The green wood house" as a guide. The entire house cost us $16K to build, including wiring, insulation, kitchen cabinets, and plumbing.
I'd actually love to know how one becomes a certified inspector. Sounds like a good way to get your own wood inspected without the expense, and maybe make a little extra cash to pay for the equipment maintenance.
My county has no building codes. Their website says “if you build a house and roof falls down on you, you’ll learn better next time.” I’ll build what I want.
Same here. We can even do our own electrical. However, that is the only thing that is a must to be inspected. The rest...they could care less. Feels good to live in freedomland.
@@jimmybob7364 My county overlaid pictures of Google to bust me on a small addition I had built. It exceeded their 200sq ft maximum by 40 sq ft requiring permits for framing, electrical, plumbing and fire code. My property is now red flagged by the county, as a building in violation.
I have recently retired as a residential builder with nearly 50 years in the trade. Many of my projects included custom milling of both large and small dimension "structural" lumber that I had specially milled for my projects. This lumber never had any stamps. If it did, I would have removed them, as this lumber was typically used in areas that were easily seen. Some of this wood was milled locally in small mills, and some purchased out of state and shipped. (where ever I could get the best price). All of my projects were built to code and subject to inspection. Not once, in literally hundreds of projects, did I have a building inspector question why my lumber was not stamped.
At the start I thought he was the other guy in dumb and dumber rotl and boy was I wrong! I must say I appreciate the fact there are some smart people like this guy in Virginia! I am a disabled/retired but was an expert General Contractor in California where all codes are strict and I am proud to give you my stamp of approval for this video of truth & knowledge! Thumbs up everybody, this man deserves a million of them for teaching the do it yourselfers on the truth of his knowledge! What he has said is spot on! Red Tool House guy, I personally I am thrilled to have found you on youtube and have subscribed as well :)
The other side of this is "How many times have I built something that didn't require structural lumber, yet I paid the price of that inspection for said lumber..." Thanks for the great information!
I wish people could realize we can do anything we wish to, as long as it does not harm others or damage others property. The government of the usa anyway is "government of the people, by the people, for the people" not the other way around.
Yes you can... But .... If you try to sell it or get a loan against it, it has to be permitted. Northern California has the most strick building codes in the world. And fines to match.
The rural county I live in doesn’t have building inspectors, nor building permits. People build whatever they want on their property and the only inspections are electrical to connect to power and the health department septic inspection.
I'm a structural engineer and I have to start by saying that this is a great video. You did some great research and presented some very viable options. Kudos. The only point I would add, is that the purpose of the stamp is all about liability. As a licensed structural engineer, when I calculate the demand on a piece of lumber and choose a lumber grade sufficient to meet that demand, it is important to me that that grade of lumber be used, important enough that I specify it on by stamped drawings. It is also about liability to the building department. Like you mentioned in your video, a lot of people, including yourself, feel like they can depend upon the jurisdiction's inspection to certify that the structure is built right, and by extension, strong enough. Despite the fact that the building department's inspection provides for none of this liability, the building department wants someone else to take responsibility for the quality of the material and they codify that requirement to serve that purpose. My point is that the inspection and grading of the wood is not meaningless or simply a bureaucratic formality, it has purpose and liability associated with it. I see a lot of comments below from people with testimonials about structures that their grand pappy built 100 years ago that are still standing. These are not the people that the code is trying to protect. Let me be clear, the code is NOT trying to protect you from yourself. As I tell many a client, the liability for a structure that I engineer, like that report for you lumber you got, stays with the structure, and if you move on and someone else takes possession of that structure, the liability on a structure that I engineered, stays with me. But, it doesn't even need to go that far. If you happen to build a barn and have a big hoe-down in the middle of a wind storm and the thing blows down and kills your neighbor's cousin's girlfriend who just showed up because her friend thought it would be a fun time, the liability for her death, is on the person who built or engineered that structure, and it is important that that person, who is going to take on that liability, have some assurance that the lumber is strong enough to meet the demand. Clearly, the risk of this in an agricultural building is low, that is why they are exempted. If you choose to take and end around the wood stamp, or the engineer, or the building department (like I see below), then you take on that responsibility. Personally, I would keep the neighbor's cousin's girlfriend out of the barn hoe-down myself, she's just there for the booze anyhow.
Exactly!!! Do it right some ones life may depend upon it. How much is your life worth? Everybody gas to make a buck too. But most of all thank God fir building codes and this man cuz without them we all would be living in caves. God bless.
I would also like to mention there is one more element than just liability. That is insurance. While rough cut lumber cut on a band saw mill is often better than the normally graded lumber (assuming a decent wood species). It also can cause insurance issues that make difficult or impossible to insure the building. Either for you or someone else in the future, part of that is liability for instance if the structure injures someone insurance often will cover that, but also financial risk the insurance company is trying to avoid if damage happens to the building. If it's not to code they can't really rate the risk, it could be less risky in this case or worse if bad wood species was used ect.. The insurance company does not know so won't insure it since they can't profile the risk.
home depot/lowes... or anywhere else for that matter... and while one CAN get lucky sometimes... having worked in the construction business i know how lumber is.... and what gets delivered to job sites, much less what is left over for the weekend builders who buy lumber from these places.....
@@chrismoore9997I've seen sections where there's nothing but cull boards from people picking all the good ones and leaving the ones that's aren't nice and straight. I hate having to pick from pallets of wood for nice straight pieces or ones with little to no knots.
look at the grain. the reason why it was so expensive is that it's *ash* it's going to be hella stable if it's already done done done seasoning and all - pine gonna look like a piece of ramen noodle after 20 minutes in the rain lol speciall green which most of what's a the big box stores is. you could command a premium if you just cut your boards to actual 2x4 instead of that dimensional lumber nonsense...well conditioned and processed fir is as good a wood as any for general usage. I hate that I always have to accommodate some weird intersections at some point because of the odd sized pieces, no matter how efficient my integration strategies.
Back in the 1970s I worked for a crossarm mill in the NW that remanufactured 4x5 old growth douglas fir for utility companies all across the US. Material that didn't make grade for utility pole crossarms was ripped and planed into 2x4s. The office manager selected out the premium lumber, much of it clear vertical grain, for framing an addition on his house. The lumber was dry and the biggest knot was the diameter of your pinkie. The county rejected the lumber because it didn't have a grade stamp. He negotiated with the inspector and got the plant manager to issue a certificate of grade. The lumber was minimum select structural grade and any fool could have seen that it was more than adequate for the job.
I was visiting with a lumber inspector and he told me that when he inspects lumber at Home depot or Lowe's all he's looking for is to make sure there are no woodpeckers or porcupines attached to the wood..
We built our church with 2x6" gluelam studs that were cut off pieces from Truss-Joist McMillan. A member was an engineer there. We had a building inspector come out and look at the framing and he red-flagged it. Dick went back to the factory and got a bucket up and a giant rubber stamp that had the proper information on it and he spent the day stamping every one of those two by sixes with the Truss-Joist engineering stamp, it passed. I called Dick Papa Smurf because he was blue up to his elbows.
Most of the structural lumber at big box stores that are banded on pallets and look straight turn into propellers once they're un-banded, and begin to REALLY dry out........in my experience. Avoid the ones with twigs and leaves sprouting out of them, too.
Building Codes were established to protect insurance and lending companies. The code books are copyrighted by various organizations that write the codes.
What about profit motives. A sawmill cuts wood, dries the wood, send to distributors, etc. But remove the middleman, then you can save money, which means challenging middlemen profits. Oh, wood may go through a planer. But there are different grades of lumber, like having grain that goes the length of the wood is favorable for strength.
@@bigdaddytee7203 I was @ big blue box the other day and 3/4" garbage plywood was $74 per.. Not sanded for squat with plenty voids included for free.. To my disgrace I didn't buy a truck load..in fact I bought exactly $0.00 worth. What a bargain, eh?
This might hinder those that fell and mill their own lumber, but it protects all the consumer base that purchase lumber. Homesteaders and those that can mill their own lumber for their own use are a small percentage of the total consumer base of lumber. Because history has shown us that manufacturers will cut corners and will do so to the detriment of the consumer. Remember a few years back when Chinese officials were caught cutting Milk with melamine in order to double or triple the yield, do you think that didn't occur here in the US, why we have standards and code for food safety, not to protect the farmer but the end user, because when it happened int the US, and the milk producers were cutting the milk with water to double or triple the yields, the US Government stepped in and standardized the industry because children were being malnourished to the point of the death of infants.
When the house you just bought falls down, because the builder didn't use approved lumber, good luck getting the insurance money. Or indeed getting the courts to rule in your favour.
Don't cut too close to tolerances. Remember that a board that is a tiny bit too thick or too wide after drying can still make the grade for strength, but a board that dries too thin or too narrow will never make the grade.
Think about this: they outlawed balloon framing of homes which is the way many homes were Built-in early America and they probably outlawed it because of the inferior quality of so much of the structural lumber that is sold today
@@MarkHicks326 it’s more of the fire issue. There is nothing to slow down the fire from spreading from the first floor to the upper floors in the walls. That being said, balloon framed houses are very durable over time due to the massive lumber and timbers. Most of the old farm houses where I live are still standing! Not as straight as they were new, but still standing 100 plus years later.
Here, in NC, the county inspector allowed me to use rough cut milled lumber for my house because it came from my property. That’s the only provision that I am aware of here. If you can show it was cut from your property then you can use it. It still has to pass code and load span specs. I over built my house just so no questions would arise.
@@KevinCoop1 just because I used sawmill lumber doesn’t mean I don’t have to build to code. It didn’t mean I didn’t have to get inspections for all the trades and the framing. Didn’t mean I didn’t get the CO. I passed every inspection that was needed and NOBODY cared that I used sawmill lumber. The structural engineer that signed his name to my home drawn plans didn’t care either. It’s a money racket. The only thing the insurance company wanted to see was the CO.
@@wovenrootsfarmstead5177 You are right. I worked for electrical contractors mostly since 1983. In St. Louis, you can’t get occupancy permit without final electrical inspection on your permit either. No off grid occupancies allowed.
You know I thought this video was just gonna be some kind of bullshit, but it turned out to be one of those gold nuggets of knowledge that I just so happen to accidentally come across. And when that happens, I usually award people a subscribe even though I hate collecting channels. So you got yourself a sub. Thank you. Really good video!
I built with on site milled lumber, I had to hire a grader to come and stamp the lumber after it was milled. We had a few boards that didn't get stamped, didn't pass inspection. It was a few hundred bucks to get a few thousand board feet inspected and stamped. I helped move the boards as the inspector graded and stamped.
@Chris Merck I'm to old for that now, buying a wooded lot (or planting one) is definitely on my list of things I should have done as a young person. I also should have bought a shut-down gravel pit when the prices were shit and ran goats on it until things improved.
I have been sawmilling for 30 years. On a micro mill a sawyer sees every board as it's sawn. He sees it better than any grader does. If you know your log and lumber you can grade it yourself as it comes off the mill. A lumber grader can be hired to grade it, there are a lot of certified graders looking for work in America,s slowing timber production. My favorite way is to have a structural engineer view it in siitu and sign off the entire structure. My sawn lumber comes from bigger diameter trees than are used commercially, and yields a superior product. An in situ inspection on a 2000 SF home has run in the 300 to 400 dollar range.
Yes and no. And even no, then it still is yes. Some of the regulations come to strongarm competition, (i.e. power and greed) But others come to pass because of accidents, or because a builder used cheaper material leading to failure. (again greed, but then from a different party). The power here tries to create a protective framework for non expert parties. All codes and specification are at least partly a collection of bad experiences.
If you've been pulling levers in the voting booth all this time that are attached to democrats and republicans.... you voted for it. Maybe you should stop doing that. I'm just sayin.....
Thank you for answering a large concerning question about building with my own lumber. You just helped me save 1/2-2/3 of the cost of my addition on my house and building my garage as well. Love the video as well. Straight forward, to the point, and informative as well. Nicely done. Hope to see more from you in the future.
i live in an abandoned country club that was supposed to be a self contained community. the corporation that started it went belly up. the county wont take responsibility so we just do what ever the hell we want. we maintain our own roads. its nothing to hear hundreds of gunshots at any hour of daylight. just target practice. we dig wells. we put up any kind of fence we want. its lovely.
sawmill owners should read up on how the lumber grading works because it helps you understand how to get the most yield of high grade lumber out of a log especially if you dont have an old timer around saying pay attention boy this is how you do this.
I just happened to come across your video. It was very informative, and something I don't think a lot of people have even thought about. Thank you for the time put into it.
I'm gonna be honest, when I sat down to watch youtube I didn't expect to listen to a guy talk about lumber for almost 20 minutes, but here I am. Interesting stuff.
Thanks for posting this. In my county here in southwest Missouri, there are no codes, but the idea of adding value to lumber by having it graded is interesting. The idea of saving money is one thing, but actually building with straight, decent quality materials is an added bonus.
I found this very interesting. First of all, I did not know that there were laws stating that you have to build with inspected lumber. Second, I also didn't know that you could hire someone to inspect your home-milled lumber. I like the idea of milling more lumber than you need, getting it all inspected, and selling the surplus for a profit. Brilliant!
A handful of states including Wisconsin and Tennessee have what is called a local use stamp. As a sawyer you can take a short class and grade your own lumber, but you have to sell directly to the end consumer and it's only valid within the state it is issued.
Any person who uses the native timber harvested from and used entirely on the person's own property shall, if required, certify that the lumber meets the requirements of any building codes.......no class required. 43-28-313. Tennessee Native Species Lumber Act, Section E. advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=c4c9afa9-eeb6-4843-8d31-4f885d4c1cb3&nodeid=ABRABCAADAAN&nodepath=%2FROOT%2FABR%2FABRABC%2FABRABCAAD%2FABRABCAADAAN&level=4&haschildren=&populated=false&title=43-28-313.+Tennessee+Native+Species+Lumber+Act.&config=025054JABlOTJjNmIyNi0wYjI0LTRjZGEtYWE5ZC0zNGFhOWNhMjFlNDgKAFBvZENhdGFsb2cDFQ14bX2GfyBTaI9WcPX5&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fstatutes-legislation%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A5JYX-16M0-R03K-J3BG-00008-00&ecomp=L38_kkk&prid=d6b87ecc-62fa-407f-8b9a-9fe930a224e8
This answered every one of my questions. Thanks, man. My mill is coming early this March and I've been racking my brain trying to figure all of this out.
Excellent! Great information. Thanks for doing the research and sharing this. For those of us in more heavily regulated areas, you've just saved us a lot of money!
Very informative, thoughtful and practical. Love it. Thank you for this. Additionally your video on Black Locust trees convinced me to start cultivating them this year. It's gonna be an adventure!
@@stanford2444 There are none in a lot of places in America. Aside from well and septic permits a lot of rural places do not employ building inspectors.
Great information that I never considered. The only inspection I have to have done is a Septic system inspection. No building fees no inspection. My only concern would be building with non-inspected lumber and then having an insurance claim due to weather damage then my insurance company trying to deny the claim because it was built with uninspected lumber. Something I will now I have to look into since I am going to be milling all my own lumber for my build.
I grew up in W.V. and now I pastor a church near Chicago. I couldn't take my eyes off the woods in the back ground. I miss the mountains and the smell of the woods. Great video and very useful information. Blessings!
No, your code officer is correct if you took the grading course from SPIB (Southern Pine Inspection Bureau) and passed and actually became a licensed Grader, the cost for the membership fees and stamp is about 500.00 a week, (Not Month, but per week) Plus you must keep track of how much lumber you manufacturer per week, per month, and they get a percentage of that....YEP you heard me right, they get a fee for certain amounts of YOUR lumber, that YOU cut. That will take you close to 3,000 a month just for fees, and that's the reason why NO small mill has a stamp.
The government which caters to only big business is a bunch of jerk offs. The white and yellow pine they want you to use for structural stuff is complete garbage. It's one of the softest Woods. And right now they are charging almost the price of Hardwoods and well above what Hemlock would cost from an Amish Sawmill. And Hemlock is far far harder and stronger than any board you're going to get from Lowe's or Home Depot.
good info Troy, thanks ! Here our woods are oak, homes are built with somewhat green wood for that reason, when putting up a house, except in a few larger towns and cities there are no building permits, no inspections, other than septic tanks.
I just had this conversation today in Wilmington NC because our studs were imported from Sweden. I'm a builder on the coast of NC and SC. The NCDOI was called by a local code official to investigate the studs being used. The NCDOI's PE found that the #2 Scotch Pine studs from Sweden are treated as equivalent to #3 North American stud. We are not allowed to use the import studs in our wind zone. Moral of the story; if you receive a lift of Swedish Scotch Pine studs in Carolina Beach, NC it's important to remove the stamp from them and have at least one North American #2 SPF stud lying around for the inspector to see.
@@evelynphillips9242 if there was validity to their argument I would agree. I feel that defending a position of the "correct strength" of wood without data to make that decision is irresponsible. The manufacturer has the data but the PE won't accept it.
Milled lots of lumber near Poulsbo Wa. In about 1995, building with the material was not allowed because it was not graded ( stamped )! Tried to find a “grader “ local - no luck. Hired a grader from Oregon, he drove 300 miles and slowely went through all the lumber and stamped every piece then we could build with it! All in all it was still cheaper as all the wood for the huge shop and modest home were built from the trees on the land. All was dimensional actual 2” x 4”up to 8” x 16”, fun project, ty D
You just think that you can. Your insurance company will have the opinion that not built to codes, not issuing check for damages from the storm. Local code inspections or not.
@@silverbackag9790 I live in Missouri too. I had not thought of it until I saw the video. Building Codes require that a Dwelling units structural lumber must be inspected, graded, and stamped. So, in all states, there are building codes that must be followed. I did electrical design and know electrical code and only some building code that applied to electrical. Your county authorities can tell you what building code needs to be followed if you do not know. Trust this, politicians always want to get involved and make decisions on what you can or can not do. A saying that I used to use. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you can. There are probably hundreds of houses built with ungraded lumber, but that does not make them legal. Respectfully, Kevin
This became so much more interesting when it became clear it was WV. I am sitting home in Sweden and looking up ideas for saw mill and this just pops up. Learned a ton as it translates to Sweden but enjoyed watching for pure nostalgia of life 20 years back, back then in Bluefield. Very interesting and keep it up. Cheers
Our family built 2 cabins (plus barns, garages and workshops) on our property using wood exclusively from our land and never had any compliance issues as we knew nothing about structural compliance. We likely exceed compliance as we only used hardwoods (walnut, cherry, red and white oak) for structures. Timber like poplar and pine was used mostly for heating and cooking. I guess we knew what we were doing as one structure has been there since 1868 and still used as a hunting cabin. Your video was very interesting and informative.
I always wondered who it was that inspected, graded and stamped the lumber. If it is a 3rd party company that will work with a small homeowner sawmill operation then that is great news. The other advantage that those sawyers have is they can saw to true dimension lumber and have greater span load rating than what any building code will call for.
Outstandingly done video which covered the subject well without giving carte blanche to those who might decide to take their chances with no inspection. The idea of doubling your quantity inspected and selling it is fabulous for those who have the resources to tackle it.
not in summit county colorado there is a war on sweat equity if you dont comply with there progresive thinking you dont get power or co they are driving up building costs so the middle class is gone poor get affordable housing rich pay 700 $ afoot social engineering at work
@@kevinburk1670 Colorado has an issue with fire and with water. When a house burns it can ignite nearby grasses and forests. That in turn can torch more houses. Most rural areas do not have fire hydrants or full time fire departments. There was a time when wood shingle roofing was popular. People noticed that many homes with fireplaces and wood shingle roofs burned down with some causing forest fires, regulations were put in place to ban wood shingles. Building permits are there to ensure that the builder is up to date on the county's codes and the codes are there to reduce the chances of a known problem reoccurring. New materials and methods leads to new hazards and new codes are required to keep builders informed. Many rural homes would flush their toilets into a nearby stream which isn't that big of a problem when there was one home per every 10 square miles. When housing became more dense people preferred to get a government so they could carry the bad news to all the toilet owners in the area and to prevent new builders from doing that in new construction. Buying a home in a rural area can be full of bad surprises. Many places still have a septic tank that is nothing more than a hole in the ground. Not a problem until a new owner drills a water well and the family starts getting sick. The big bad government has to tell them that they are required to install a sewer settling tank and a leach field which will cost the new owner $10,000 or more.
The resulting laws have come about from the combination of greedy businesses using laws to drive business(lobbyists) AND people requiring government service to save them from their unsafe/lazy/ignorant construction decision. Lobbyists should be banned from ever speaking to any law creating legislator. The cost to live in this country would drop dramatically(think medical) and we’d all be much safer(think NRA).
Addressing the various ways to meet code. I saw primarily Douglas Fir structural lumber in western Oregon. The cost to get it graded is significant and can very easily eat up your profit. I found, and developed a market for ground-contact treated lumber and posts. Even though the cost to have it treated is high, the premium on the sales price more than makes up for it AND the treating company always grades it as part of what they charge you.
In our county the building inspectors brother owns a lumberyard bet you can guess where you have to get your materials if you want your building to pass. And yes I live in Illinois.
That kind of nepitism should be easy for any developer to set up a joint sting operation. Does the brother with the lumber-yard offer his materials at a reasonable price? If there is a direct instruction on the part of the planning department, that can be recorded and used in court,... unless the Judge is also related.
You worry too much, I’m going to bet your wood is better than Home Depot’s would, I bet buying a rubberstamp machine is way cheaper than a inspector if you know what I mean
@@nicolaihvass123 That wouldnt send you to prison, just stick you with 6 figures worth of fines. Worst case if you couldn't pay the fees, they'd make you tear the building down.
Here in NY stamped and coded means sales tax and protection for mega box store lumber. We've had a full sized Lane mill for years, and I'm about to purchase a band mill for the smaller logs, and what we produce makes Lowes or home depot lumber look like crate wood. This is good to know about the possibility of having the lumber that inevitably comes out better then what you can buy inspected for structural quality. Thanks for the good discussion.
this is amazing.....just ran across the video, thank you as im getting ready to build a house next year and was thinking of doing this but didnt know how to proceed......i do work at a sawmill and we just bought a tract with 200,000 board ft of pine
The reason wood has to be graded is because of all the people who died from having their house collapse on them when they built with ungraded lumber....said no one ever.
@@redhed9776 Insurance companies can suck my nuts. I am getting screwed over on a title insurance claim against a garage that was built not to code, without a permit and is starting to come down. They are trying to "make it right" by giving me enough to rip it down, and not replacing the structure, which legally, written right in the policy is what they are supposed to cover. Heck, even my adjuster is saying so.
Paul I live at 6500' and some of the structures were built back in the 1920's. 2x4 every two ft for rafters and 2x2 for studs every 2 - 4 ft. Some walls only had enough studs to frame in a window and a door. They had 2 - 6 ft of snow on them some winters. But they arent collapsing.
Nice job of explaining the concerns and the proper way to go about staying compliant with the building codes. I was taught that the codes don't exist for YOUR safety, but rather for the safety of the person who later buys it from you or your heirs. Basically turns it into a commerce regulation type of thing, like functional for intended purpose....
Well obviously signs of insect infestation here.... crooked, bowed, softwood. Doesn't want to waste gas on the trip out....so gives it a quick stamping anyway. She says to herself I know this one's going to wind up in a dumpster behind Home Depot
Back in the day my grandpappy built his farm buildings house several hunting cabins and deer blinds out of the trees he harvested from his 440 acre property. He had his own sawmill (not the bandsaw ones of today but circular type saw blade. It must've been a 24"-36" blade). As a kid I remember being in the building while it was in operation "LOUD". Those were good days back then. Simpler times.
Great subject that I've never given much thought to, having that inspection report could go a long in resolving future insurance claims if the need arises. Great video thanks.
so i'm a lumber grader , going back to the early 1990's , and pretty much everything you said is bang on . if your going to get a grading agency in to stamp your lumber i would do things a little differently . i would sort for size and length , then in each section , i would makes piles of #1 , 2 and better , #3 , and stud ..... this also means the person running the mill needs to be familiar with the grades . sorting it this way will speed things up , as will being highly organized
I've seen stamped lumber at the big box stores that I wouldn't build a doghouse with!
Same. Lots of very bent pieces, chunks taken out, cracks that almost completely go through the wood... knots over 50% of the size of the piece itself.
it is kind of ridiculous having to dig through the huge pile and spend 30mins just to get a few straight pieces, I feel like I am working for free for the big box store LOL
Agree
@@Vid_Master You are (working for free)
Hear that.
what they do with it after its inspected..... they should inspect in store haha
Who ever inspected Lowe's lumber needs FIRED
No shit lol half of that crap has knots all through it lol
King Solomon ask the question, "What is crooked and cannot be made straight?" Answer... Lowes Lumber
oh... Ecclesiastes 1:15
@@danielcarter7657 you know the rules, little guy get screwed, corporate welfare get to do whatever it likes
NK! My $50 16' 2x12 bowed like a rainbow as soon as I started notching it out for a stringer.. Total junk.
@@dewaynemartin6437 Problem is, for old timers who have been in the construction business for a long time, our current lumber sucks compared to what they were used to. The reason is that it isn't made from those old forest trees anymore, but mostly from plantation trees, cut at a fairly young age, which makes for more sapwood-heartwood mixed boards with lots of knots, and that is a recipe for an unstable wood. Small price to pay for the environnement, imo.
I am 25 years in a sawmill-lumber cabin and never asked anyone's permission to build it myself. I'm in WV too.
👍👍
Right On!
Exactly. And if I need stamped wood I'll stamp it myself
@@thespiritof76.. right? get a big piece of rubber, whittle a stamp out of it, done.
I've not studied it much, but I know you can do your own electrical and plumbing work yourself. It's when you make a profit doing it for others that you need a license. I believe that the same applies to building your own home. If it's for personal use, they can't force codes on you. If it's to sell or rent, it has to be to code. The main issue with your personal home is that the electric company and other utilities can require you to meet code before providing service. I got 2 driving on suspended, expired tags, improper tags and no insurance tickets dismissed in May. Learn the law, a license is only needed for commerce / professions.
I am a sawmill owner in Tennessee. We have the Tennessee Native Species Lumber Act here which was advocated by a friend of mine and sawmill owner as well. It allows any person to use homestead timber or lumber to use and be exempt from state or local codes.
Is this true cause that would be awesome!
@@jacelandadventures1523 just about to finish a 24x36 house pattern now for a friend who helped me build back in 2001
JD Edwards this is great news cause I would like to mill some wood and build some small timber framed cabins!
That is awesome. The more I learn, the more I love TN.
Might have to find me a nice little spot in Tennessee then cause i would like to cut my own lumber and build my own buildings plus home and grow the trees back
My dad built the house I grew up in here in southern West Virginia in 1955. His dad had a sawmill and my dad milled all of the structural lumber use in that house. He only bought things like siding and tongue and groove flooring. My dad still lives there and is now 91 years old and the house is still as straight and solid as it was when first built.
1955 the us was still a relatively free country
@@debbiesalo6771 In the old days, it was the actual finished size. Now what I want to know is how do you size a floor joist that is a whole tree with just the floor side cut smooth? :-) And do you count the bark as it has been there for over 200 years? :-D
That's wonderful, but it shows selection/survivorship bias. What percent of houses built in 1955 are still standing straight? Very few. Mine was built in 1958, and I'm the second owner. The late builder's widow didn't keep up with termite treatments, so we bought it cheap knowing we'd have a lot of repairs ahead. There are tons of foundations nearby of houses not built to last.
@@PatrickKQ4HBD You'd be lucky to get 1 shovel of portland cement to 8 shovels of sand and gravel which would be equivalent to 200 PSI concrete on most of them.
I just finished building my uncle a cabin out in Amish Country. All of the framing Lumber was green Douglas fir actual dimensional Lumber. That wood is so hard that you almost have to pre-drill to get screws into it and hand nailing is damn near impossible. I will say if you wanted to finish it with drywall it would be damn near impossible with the way the Greenwood changes. But I finished the entire thing in tongue and groove white pine. It's 800 square feet and I used over 25,000 Nails just on the finishing wood. I have no idea how many went into the framing. Suffice it to say I believe if a tornado hit it could pick that thing up and move it and it would still all be in one piece. Today's lumber at the big stores doesn't even come close to the strength of what I used. Most of the farm houses in my area just used the lumber on the land. I've had to do work where I'm drilling through 14 in of hard maple which makes up the rim joist / sill plate. Anytime they make regulations about what you're allowed to do when it comes to building your own home it's just so some fat cat can line his pockets and not have competition from the little guys who actually do it better. So far as I can tell. One way to get around the bullshit is to build it as a pole building on pylons. March project was set on eight by eight every six feet.
I'm telling ya, the things a guy can learn on You Tube when you bite on a suggested video.
Your presentation pulled me into the whole 17 and a half minutes. Now I know. ☺ Thanks.
We built the cabin we live in out of rough sawn GREEN lumber from an Amish sawmill. We have lived in it for 9 years and all is well so far. We used a book called "The green wood house" as a guide. The entire house cost us $16K to build, including wiring, insulation, kitchen cabinets, and plumbing.
I was a certified hardwood lumber inspector when I worked at a finish mill in the 90s. I should reup my certification a a side hustle.
Great idea!
Hustle is the right word for the bull shit
I'd actually love to know how one becomes a certified inspector. Sounds like a good way to get your own wood inspected without the expense, and maybe make a little extra cash to pay for the equipment maintenance.
@@lilacdragon9105 pay 5 grand
My county has no building codes. Their website says “if you build a house and roof falls down on you, you’ll learn better next time.” I’ll build what I want.
What country is that?
@@Mr83goat “county” and I don’t want to advertise then everyone will be trying to move here...
It is not like that where I live... I wish
Same here. We can even do our own electrical. However, that is the only thing that is a must to be inspected. The rest...they could care less. Feels good to live in freedomland.
@@jimmybob7364 My county overlaid pictures of Google to bust me on a small addition I had built. It exceeded their 200sq ft maximum by 40 sq ft requiring permits for framing, electrical, plumbing and fire code.
My property is now red flagged by the county, as a building in violation.
Built two houses and some barns with sawmill lumber and was fortunate enough that the building inspector said he had no say in the matter!
I have recently retired as a residential builder with nearly 50 years in the trade. Many of my projects included custom milling of both large and small dimension "structural" lumber that I had specially milled for my projects. This lumber never had any stamps. If it did, I would have removed them, as this lumber was typically used in areas that were easily seen. Some of this wood was milled locally in small mills, and some purchased out of state and shipped. (where ever I could get the best price). All of my projects were built to code and subject to inspection. Not once, in literally hundreds of projects, did I have a building inspector question why my lumber was not stamped.
At the start I thought he was the other guy in dumb and dumber rotl and boy was I wrong!
I must say I appreciate the fact there are some smart people like this guy in Virginia!
I am a disabled/retired but was an expert General Contractor in California where all codes are strict and I am proud to give you my stamp of approval for this video of truth & knowledge!
Thumbs up everybody, this man deserves a million of them for teaching the do it yourselfers on the truth of his knowledge! What he has said is spot on!
Red Tool House guy, I personally I am thrilled to have found you on youtube and have subscribed as well :)
The other side of this is "How many times have I built something that didn't require structural lumber, yet I paid the price of that inspection for said lumber..." Thanks for the great information!
I wish people could realize we can do anything we wish to, as long as it does not harm others or damage others property. The government of the usa anyway is "government of the people, by the people, for the people" not the other way around.
Oh don’t we wish that that were still so.
Wish I lived in the USA you did
Tell them that in the House and the Senate.
Yes you can... But .... If you try to sell it or get a loan against it, it has to be permitted. Northern California has the most strick building codes in the world. And fines to match.
@@jaysallinen3788 another good reason to not reside in california
The rural county I live in doesn’t have building inspectors, nor building permits. People build whatever they want on their property and the only inspections are electrical to connect to power and the health department septic inspection.
I'm a structural engineer and I have to start by saying that this is a great video. You did some great research and presented some very viable options. Kudos. The only point I would add, is that the purpose of the stamp is all about liability. As a licensed structural engineer, when I calculate the demand on a piece of lumber and choose a lumber grade sufficient to meet that demand, it is important to me that that grade of lumber be used, important enough that I specify it on by stamped drawings. It is also about liability to the building department. Like you mentioned in your video, a lot of people, including yourself, feel like they can depend upon the jurisdiction's inspection to certify that the structure is built right, and by extension, strong enough. Despite the fact that the building department's inspection provides for none of this liability, the building department wants someone else to take responsibility for the quality of the material and they codify that requirement to serve that purpose. My point is that the inspection and grading of the wood is not meaningless or simply a bureaucratic formality, it has purpose and liability associated with it.
I see a lot of comments below from people with testimonials about structures that their grand pappy built 100 years ago that are still standing. These are not the people that the code is trying to protect. Let me be clear, the code is NOT trying to protect you from yourself. As I tell many a client, the liability for a structure that I engineer, like that report for you lumber you got, stays with the structure, and if you move on and someone else takes possession of that structure, the liability on a structure that I engineered, stays with me. But, it doesn't even need to go that far. If you happen to build a barn and have a big hoe-down in the middle of a wind storm and the thing blows down and kills your neighbor's cousin's girlfriend who just showed up because her friend thought it would be a fun time, the liability for her death, is on the person who built or engineered that structure, and it is important that that person, who is going to take on that liability, have some assurance that the lumber is strong enough to meet the demand. Clearly, the risk of this in an agricultural building is low, that is why they are exempted. If you choose to take and end around the wood stamp, or the engineer, or the building department (like I see below), then you take on that responsibility. Personally, I would keep the neighbor's cousin's girlfriend out of the barn hoe-down myself, she's just there for the booze anyhow.
Exactly!!! Do it right some ones life may depend upon it. How much is your life worth?
Everybody gas to make a buck too.
But most of all thank God fir building codes and this man cuz without them we all would be living in caves. God bless.
I would also like to mention there is one more element than just liability. That is insurance. While rough cut lumber cut on a band saw mill is often better than the normally graded lumber (assuming a decent wood species). It also can cause insurance issues that make difficult or impossible to insure the building. Either for you or someone else in the future, part of that is liability for instance if the structure injures someone insurance often will cover that, but also financial risk the insurance company is trying to avoid if damage happens to the building. If it's not to code they can't really rate the risk, it could be less risky in this case or worse if bad wood species was used ect.. The insurance company does not know so won't insure it since they can't profile the risk.
The problem is, people always looking for someone to sue. If the barn blew down sue the storm, shite happens.
I'm a fan of the Ron Swanson School of Less Government, just saw that Code Regulations book in half and PRESS ON!
Yes, Press On!
I'm calling b.s. no way a piece of wood from home depot is that straight
home depot/lowes... or anywhere else for that matter... and while one CAN get lucky sometimes... having worked in the construction business i know how lumber is.... and what gets delivered to job sites, much less what is left over for the weekend builders who buy lumber from these places.....
@@mikewhitaker2880 - I have been able to get a few good ones if I go pick it myself.
@@chrismoore9997I've seen sections where there's nothing but cull boards from people picking all the good ones and leaving the ones that's aren't nice and straight. I hate having to pick from pallets of wood for nice straight pieces or ones with little to no knots.
look at the grain. the reason why it was so expensive is that it's *ash*
it's going to be hella stable if it's already done done done seasoning and all - pine gonna look like a piece of ramen noodle after 20 minutes in the rain lol speciall green which most of what's a the big box stores is.
you could command a premium if you just cut your boards to actual 2x4 instead of that dimensional lumber nonsense...well conditioned and processed fir is as good a wood as any for general usage. I hate that I always have to accommodate some weird intersections at some point because of the odd sized pieces, no matter how efficient my integration strategies.
Yeah you can find them straight. You’ll have to dig through a hundred to find it, but you can. Lol
Back in the 1970s I worked for a crossarm mill in the NW that remanufactured 4x5 old growth douglas fir for utility companies all across the US. Material that didn't make grade for utility pole crossarms was ripped and planed into 2x4s. The office manager selected out the premium lumber, much of it clear vertical grain, for framing an addition on his house. The lumber was dry and the biggest knot was the diameter of your pinkie. The county rejected the lumber because it didn't have a grade stamp. He negotiated with the inspector and got the plant manager to issue a certificate of grade. The lumber was minimum select structural grade and any fool could have seen that it was more than adequate for the job.
I was visiting with a lumber inspector and he told me that when he inspects lumber at Home depot or Lowe's all he's looking for is to make sure there are no woodpeckers or porcupines attached to the wood..
Good one!
We built our church with 2x6" gluelam studs that were cut off pieces from Truss-Joist McMillan. A member was an engineer there. We had a building inspector come out and look at the framing and he red-flagged it. Dick went back to the factory and got a bucket up and a giant rubber stamp that had the proper information on it and he spent the day stamping every one of those two by sixes with the Truss-Joist engineering stamp, it passed. I called Dick Papa Smurf because he was blue up to his elbows.
So much for "building inspectors". Hahaha! Great story.
@@Milosz_Ostrow actually those stamps were legal because Dick was the engineer who designed a originally certified the gluelams.
I’ve seen some boards at big box stores that were only good for a fire barrel
I have seen some that are so curved they would make a great burn barrel
Most of the structural lumber at big box stores that are banded on pallets and look straight turn into propellers once they're un-banded, and begin to REALLY dry out........in my experience. Avoid the ones with twigs and leaves sprouting out of them, too.
Yeah, but you need to dry it for a year to burn.
Building Codes were established to protect insurance and lending companies. The code books are copyrighted by various organizations that write the codes.
What about profit motives.
A sawmill cuts wood, dries the wood, send to distributors, etc. But remove the middleman, then you can save money, which means challenging middlemen profits. Oh, wood may go through a planer.
But there are different grades of lumber, like having grain that goes the length of the wood is favorable for strength.
I’ve seen enough Mike Holmes on TV to know that even though a structure was inspected doesn’t “make it right.”
"It cost more than my first year of college tuition" 2021 lumber prices joke
Not joke. True
No shit. 39$ for a sheet of 1/2" osb. Smfh
@@bigdaddytee7203 I was @ big blue box the other day and 3/4" garbage plywood was $74 per.. Not sanded for squat with plenty voids included for free.. To my disgrace I didn't buy a truck load..in fact I bought exactly $0.00 worth. What a bargain, eh?
It's a 1990 tuition joke.
@@bigdaddytee7203 really, more like 79 in CO what a rip
It shows how far we have fallen as a people that we think we need the approval of a government bureaucrat to do anything so simple.
Much agreed. Amazing how many old structures are still standing many many years later that never had stamped lumber.
@@MrJonrocker or had a permit from the county
@@MrJonrocker That's because you don't see all the structures that failed. This is the very definition of, "survivor bias".
This might hinder those that fell and mill their own lumber, but it protects all the consumer base that purchase lumber. Homesteaders and those that can mill their own lumber for their own use are a small percentage of the total consumer base of lumber. Because history has shown us that manufacturers will cut corners and will do so to the detriment of the consumer. Remember a few years back when Chinese officials were caught cutting Milk with melamine in order to double or triple the yield, do you think that didn't occur here in the US, why we have standards and code for food safety, not to protect the farmer but the end user, because when it happened int the US, and the milk producers were cutting the milk with water to double or triple the yields, the US Government stepped in and standardized the industry because children were being malnourished to the point of the death of infants.
When the house you just bought falls down, because the builder didn't use approved lumber, good luck getting the insurance money. Or indeed getting the courts to rule in your favour.
Don't cut too close to tolerances. Remember that a board that is a tiny bit too thick or too wide after drying can still make the grade for strength, but a board that dries too thin or too narrow will never make the grade.
Lived in a 100+ year old house built with rough cut lumber as a kid. Was a solid built house and is still standing today
Think about this: they outlawed balloon framing of homes which is the way many homes were Built-in early America and they probably outlawed it because of the inferior quality of so much of the structural lumber that is sold today
@@MarkHicks326 it’s more of the fire issue. There is nothing to slow down the fire from spreading from the first floor to the upper floors in the walls. That being said, balloon framed houses are very durable over time due to the massive lumber and timbers. Most of the old farm houses where I live are still standing! Not as straight as they were new, but still standing 100 plus years later.
Here, in NC, the county inspector allowed me to use rough cut milled lumber for my house because it came from my property. That’s the only provision that I am aware of here. If you can show it was cut from your property then you can use it. It still has to pass code and load span specs. I over built my house just so no questions would arise.
But what would your insurance company say if if gets blown down? Inspectors are not liable for their actions, but you are.
@@KevinCoop1 just because I used sawmill lumber doesn’t mean I don’t have to build to code. It didn’t mean I didn’t have to get inspections for all the trades and the framing. Didn’t mean I didn’t get the CO. I passed every inspection that was needed and NOBODY cared that I used sawmill lumber. The structural engineer that signed his name to my home drawn plans didn’t care either. It’s a money racket. The only thing the insurance company wanted to see was the CO.
@@wovenrootsfarmstead5177 You did it right! Most would not. They just think codes can be ignored!
@@KevinCoop1 I could’ve ignored them. They would’ve pulled my power meter though. I’d have been off grid whether I wanted to be or not....
@@wovenrootsfarmstead5177 You are right. I worked for electrical contractors mostly since 1983. In St. Louis, you can’t get occupancy permit without final electrical inspection on your permit either. No off grid occupancies allowed.
"Mind Blown" Lots of valuable info here!!! Thx
The government wants taxes, but you can use refurbished lumber with no tax.
Get 100% free lumber and get paid to remove it. Simply get into demo jobs. Demo a building without excessive damage and most material can be re used.
@@shawnkelly1241 My man
@@mikeschmidt4800 not a man just advice to make money and get free lumber and other building materials. The real men acually do it.
You know I thought this video was just gonna be some kind of bullshit, but it turned out to be one of those gold nuggets of knowledge that I just so happen to accidentally come across. And when that happens, I usually award people a subscribe even though I hate collecting channels. So you got yourself a sub. Thank you. Really good video!
I built with on site milled lumber, I had to hire a grader to come and stamp the lumber after it was milled. We had a few boards that didn't get stamped, didn't pass inspection. It was a few hundred bucks to get a few thousand board feet inspected and stamped. I helped move the boards as the inspector graded and stamped.
Find or borrow a stamp.
I don't have a mill. I don't even have trees. Yet, after that idea, I want to go cut some shit up.
lollzzzz
Start with your shirt, then your pants. It'll be harder, but do your sneakers or boots after that. You should be tired.
me too................................................
@Chris Merck I'm to old for that now, buying a wooded lot (or planting one) is definitely on my list of things I should have done as a young person. I also should have bought a shut-down gravel pit when the prices were shit and ran goats on it until things improved.
Do “Barnwood Builders” and such get recovered structural lumber inspected and stamped before building residences with old lumber?
I have been sawmilling for 30 years. On a micro mill a sawyer sees every board as it's sawn. He sees it better than any grader does. If you know your log and lumber you can grade it yourself as it comes off the mill. A lumber grader can be hired to grade it, there are a lot of certified graders looking for work in America,s slowing timber production. My favorite way is to have a structural engineer view it in siitu and sign off the entire structure. My sawn lumber comes from bigger diameter trees than are used commercially, and yields a superior product. An in situ inspection on a 2000 SF home has run in the 300 to 400 dollar range.
What it boils down too is POWER AND GREED
Exactly!
SATAN
Control, slavery and tyranny
And people too stupid to stop voting for traditional candidates.
Yes and no.
And even no, then it still is yes.
Some of the regulations come to strongarm competition, (i.e. power and greed)
But others come to pass because of accidents, or because a builder used cheaper material leading to failure. (again greed, but then from a different party). The power here tries to create a protective framework for non expert parties.
All codes and specification are at least partly a collection of bad experiences.
when is a free man not free? When he pays to build with his own wood.
Lot of sad truth there.
Pay to build with you own wood then pay every year to own the building and the property it is sitting on, and pay when you sell it or eventually die.
@@robinson1509 - So, Caveman really was Smarter!
No Taxes! Ever!
@@robinson1509 don't forget to tax the income and gas and the tax for the tax prepped...😭
If you've been pulling levers in the voting booth all this time that are attached to democrats and republicans.... you voted for it. Maybe you should stop doing that. I'm just sayin.....
Given today’s prices this makes even more sense.
Thank you for answering a large concerning question about building with my own lumber. You just helped me save 1/2-2/3 of the cost of my addition on my house and building my garage as well. Love the video as well. Straight forward, to the point, and informative as well. Nicely done. Hope to see more from you in the future.
The county I am building in, they don't even have a permitting process. No inspections at all, ever. Build what you want however you can.
Wheres that bud?
@@ryananthony7115 Lots of rural counties have no zoning, permitting or building inspections.
i live in an abandoned country club that was supposed to be a self contained community. the corporation that started it went belly up. the county wont take responsibility so we just do what ever the hell we want. we maintain our own roads. its nothing to hear hundreds of gunshots at any hour of daylight. just target practice. we dig wells. we put up any kind of fence we want. its lovely.
@@ryananthony7115 Most of Missouri minus the cities. Permits/inspections for septics only and that's only been in the last 15 years.
sawmill owners should read up on how the lumber grading works because it helps you understand how to get the most yield of high grade lumber out of a log especially if you dont have an old timer around saying pay attention boy this is how you do this.
They already know far more than the people who make the laws
How do you think us old timers learned ?? Use your brain, look at the log and not a cell phone.
@@forbesmathews89 By using your brain wrong, making dumb mistakes, and learning your lessons? That's how I learned. 😆
I just happened to come across your video. It was very informative, and something I don't think a lot of people have even thought about. Thank you for the time put into it.
Not only did you answer my question about the esoteric "stamp" but you also provided the contact info for the inspection companies. Brilliant.
19% LOL I have cut lumber store bought that felt like I was taking a shower.
We always shake our to get the squirrels out.
I've watched water roll down a board i was ripping, literally
@@_RocketRooster not from lumber from lowes you havn't. They sell only quality lumber😂🤣
Well just cuz it was 19% when inspected doesn’t mean it wasn’t left out in the rain after that
A lot of that "moisture" is the fluids they treated the board with
To take your scenario even farther:
Suppose you have yourself certified to inspect/grade your own lumber?
that my friend is genius....if possible
Better yet, just buy the rubber stamp.
@@cdawg9149 you win the interwebs. 😂👍
So become an inspector and invest in a saw mill genius
@justan idiot inspection is common sense
I'm gonna be honest, when I sat down to watch youtube I didn't expect to listen to a guy talk about lumber for almost 20 minutes, but here I am.
Interesting stuff.
Thanks for posting this. In my county here in southwest Missouri, there are no codes, but the idea of adding value to lumber by having it graded is interesting. The idea of saving money is one thing, but actually building with straight, decent quality materials is an added bonus.
I found this very interesting. First of all, I did not know that there were laws stating that you have to build with inspected lumber. Second, I also didn't know that you could hire someone to inspect your home-milled lumber. I like the idea of milling more lumber than you need, getting it all inspected, and selling the surplus for a profit. Brilliant!
Just the fact that you even have to ask the question says a lot about the lack of freedom in this country.
You are free to go somewhere else. Here we do live in a society. One where your freedom ends where another's begins.
It blew my mind. I got so into your presentation that I forgot the question until you re-asked it at the end.
🤯 Too effin’ cool!!! Just getting into milling and this makes more sense than any other video I have seen about milling. Thank you!
A handful of states including Wisconsin and Tennessee have what is called a local use stamp. As a sawyer you can take a short class and grade your own lumber, but you have to sell directly to the end consumer and it's only valid within the state it is issued.
Any person who uses the native timber harvested from and used entirely on the person's own property shall, if required, certify that the lumber meets the requirements of any building codes.......no class required. 43-28-313. Tennessee Native Species Lumber Act, Section E.
advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=c4c9afa9-eeb6-4843-8d31-4f885d4c1cb3&nodeid=ABRABCAADAAN&nodepath=%2FROOT%2FABR%2FABRABC%2FABRABCAAD%2FABRABCAADAAN&level=4&haschildren=&populated=false&title=43-28-313.+Tennessee+Native+Species+Lumber+Act.&config=025054JABlOTJjNmIyNi0wYjI0LTRjZGEtYWE5ZC0zNGFhOWNhMjFlNDgKAFBvZENhdGFsb2cDFQ14bX2GfyBTaI9WcPX5&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fstatutes-legislation%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A5JYX-16M0-R03K-J3BG-00008-00&ecomp=L38_kkk&prid=d6b87ecc-62fa-407f-8b9a-9fe930a224e8
Ed does what you are saying apply just in Tennessee? Do you know if other states have similar statutes,Illinois for one?
@@woodlandharvesthoneycompanyllc I don't know about other States. I worked with my legislator to get the law passed in Tennessee.
This answered every one of my questions. Thanks, man. My mill is coming early this March and I've been racking my brain trying to figure all of this out.
Excellent! Great information. Thanks for doing the research and sharing this. For those of us in more heavily regulated areas, you've just saved us a lot of money!
Very informative, thoughtful and practical. Love it. Thank you for this. Additionally your video on Black Locust trees convinced me to start cultivating them this year. It's gonna be an adventure!
Simple resolution to this issue. Do not live anyplace that has building inspectors.
Building inspectors only exist to get property taxes put on the books as soon as possible and at an amount that is maximum for the area.
There are none in Somalia, go for it!
@@stanford2444 There are none in a lot of places in America. Aside from well and septic permits a lot of rural places do not employ building inspectors.
@@Grandpacarlreacts Yep and places like where I live have no zoning regs either.
Great information that I never considered. The only inspection I have to have done is a Septic system inspection. No building fees no inspection. My only concern would be building with non-inspected lumber and then having an insurance claim due to weather damage then my insurance company trying to deny the claim because it was built with uninspected lumber. Something I will now I have to look into since I am going to be milling all my own lumber for my build.
Good point. Insurance companies are today's incarnation of Satan himself here on earth.
I don’t think the question will ever come up tho but it’s a gamble
I grew up in W.V. and now I pastor a church near Chicago. I couldn't take my eyes off the woods in the back ground. I miss the mountains and the smell of the woods. Great video and very useful information. Blessings!
Go to office depot and get them to make you a duplicate stamp and stamp your own lumber.
That's almost as illegal as printing your own money.
I'm so glad you shared this! I spoke with our local code officer and he made it sound expensive but I knew it had to be possible. YEA!!!
No, your code officer is correct if you took the grading course from SPIB (Southern Pine Inspection Bureau) and passed and actually became a licensed Grader, the cost for the membership fees and stamp is about 500.00 a week, (Not Month, but per week) Plus you must keep track of how much lumber you manufacturer per week, per month, and they get a percentage of that....YEP you heard me right, they get a fee for certain amounts of YOUR lumber, that YOU cut. That will take you close to 3,000 a month just for fees, and that's the reason why NO small mill has a stamp.
Its a good thing wow the only way to go im impressed having your lumber graded kudos to u Troy for digging this up
My feeling on the subject is, what the government don't know won't hurt me!
The government which caters to only big business is a bunch of jerk offs. The white and yellow pine they want you to use for structural stuff is complete garbage. It's one of the softest Woods. And right now they are charging almost the price of Hardwoods and well above what Hemlock would cost from an Amish Sawmill. And Hemlock is far far harder and stronger than any board you're going to get from Lowe's or Home Depot.
doesn't*
I was going to sell my sawmill, but one trip to the lumber yard, and I went over and greased it to get it ready.
at $30 for a 2x10...My ol 0 Frick mill and Detroit 4-71 is gona be singing again soon.
good info Troy, thanks ! Here our woods are oak, homes are built with somewhat green wood for that reason, when putting up a house, except in a few larger towns and cities there are no building permits, no inspections, other than septic tanks.
I just had this conversation today in Wilmington NC because our studs were imported from Sweden. I'm a builder on the coast of NC and SC. The NCDOI was called by a local code official to investigate the studs being used. The NCDOI's PE found that the #2 Scotch Pine studs from Sweden are treated as equivalent to #3 North American stud. We are not allowed to use the import studs in our wind zone. Moral of the story; if you receive a lift of Swedish Scotch Pine studs in Carolina Beach, NC it's important to remove the stamp from them and have at least one North American #2 SPF stud lying around for the inspector to see.
Why not use the correct strength wood for the job to begin with? What a bunch of shortcut artists you contractors are.
@@evelynphillips9242 if there was validity to their argument I would agree. I feel that defending a position of the "correct strength" of wood without data to make that decision is irresponsible. The manufacturer has the data but the PE won't accept it.
Milled lots of lumber near Poulsbo Wa. In about 1995, building with the material was not allowed because it was not graded ( stamped )! Tried to find a “grader “ local - no luck. Hired a grader from Oregon, he drove 300 miles and slowely went through all the lumber and stamped every piece then we could build with it! All in all it was still cheaper as all the wood for the huge shop and modest home were built from the trees on the land. All was dimensional actual 2” x 4”up to 8” x 16”, fun project, ty D
Extremely informative! I don't know how I ended up down this rabbit hole of TH-cam but I now have the knowledge. Thanks!
So I just need to make a stamp and stamp my own.
Great way to get a little away time.
the cost of the stamp would many times the cost of buying finished lumber. certification costs a ton of money
@@HolzMichel It doesn't have to be certified, it just has to identify as certified... ;)
@@cumberlandgapconspiracy found the crazy guy!
It's not the stamp, forging the paperwork is the hard part.
Can I build with sawmill lumber? Yes I can. I live in a county in MO that has no building codes. Perks of living in a free county.
Except for a septic inspection.
You just think that you can. Your insurance company will have the opinion that not built to codes, not issuing check for damages from the storm. Local code inspections or not.
@@KevinCoop1 I have absolutely never heard of that happening in Missouri. Ever.
@@silverbackag9790 I live in Missouri too. I had not thought of it until I saw the video. Building Codes require that a Dwelling units structural lumber must be inspected, graded, and stamped. So, in all states, there are building codes that must be followed. I did electrical design and know electrical code and only some building code that applied to electrical. Your county authorities can tell you what building code needs to be followed if you do not know. Trust this, politicians always want to get involved and make decisions on what you can or can not do.
A saying that I used to use. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you can. There are probably hundreds of houses built with ungraded lumber, but that does not make them legal.
Respectfully, Kevin
This became so much more interesting when it became clear it was WV. I am sitting home in Sweden and looking up ideas for saw mill and this just pops up. Learned a ton as it translates to Sweden but enjoyed watching for pure nostalgia of life 20 years back, back then in Bluefield. Very interesting and keep it up. Cheers
Our family built 2 cabins (plus barns, garages and workshops) on our property using wood exclusively from our land and never had any compliance issues as we knew nothing about structural compliance. We likely exceed compliance as we only used hardwoods (walnut, cherry, red and white oak) for structures. Timber like poplar and pine was used mostly for heating and cooking. I guess we knew what we were doing as one structure has been there since 1868 and still used as a hunting cabin. Your video was very interesting and informative.
I went to a clinic on lumber grading years ago. The pay for inspectors was pretty good back then (1985).
How hard was that process?
I always wondered who it was that inspected, graded and stamped the lumber. If it is a 3rd party company that will work with a small homeowner sawmill operation then that is great news. The other advantage that those sawyers have is they can saw to true dimension lumber and have greater span load rating than what any building code will call for.
If you're building for yourself, overbuilding something does makes sense. You'll have far less trouble later on.
Outstandingly done video which covered the subject well without giving carte blanche to those who might decide to take their chances with no inspection. The idea of doubling your quantity inspected and selling it is fabulous for those who have the resources to tackle it.
I have been looking into building my own home and haven’t even heard of lumber inspection requirements . Thanks for the insight.
I'm not gonna worry about these laws. The government has overstepped its boundaries on way too many things.
too*
Just dont get caught.
"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?"
The gubmint needs to get their share of that sweat, sir.
not in summit county colorado there is a war on sweat equity if you dont comply with there progresive thinking you dont get power or co they are driving up building costs so the middle class is gone poor get affordable housing rich pay 700 $ afoot social engineering at work
@@kevinburk1670 Colorado has an issue with fire and with water. When a house burns it can ignite nearby grasses and forests. That in turn can torch more houses. Most rural areas do not have fire hydrants or full time fire departments. There was a time when wood shingle roofing was popular. People noticed that many homes with fireplaces and wood shingle roofs burned down with some causing forest fires, regulations were put in place to ban wood shingles. Building permits are there to ensure that the builder is up to date on the county's codes and the codes are there to reduce the chances of a known problem reoccurring. New materials and methods leads to new hazards and new codes are required to keep builders informed. Many rural homes would flush their toilets into a nearby stream which isn't that big of a problem when there was one home per every 10 square miles. When housing became more dense people preferred to get a government so they could carry the bad news to all the toilet owners in the area and to prevent new builders from doing that in new construction. Buying a home in a rural area can be full of bad surprises. Many places still have a septic tank that is nothing more than a hole in the ground. Not a problem until a new owner drills a water well and the family starts getting sick. The big bad government has to tell them that they are required to install a sewer settling tank and a leach field which will cost the new owner $10,000 or more.
@@danielebrparish4271 you are missng the point im talking about the government picking and choosing winers and losers taxing and redistributing wealth
The resulting laws have come about from the combination of greedy businesses using laws to drive business(lobbyists) AND people requiring government service to save them from their unsafe/lazy/ignorant construction decision. Lobbyists should be banned from ever speaking to any law creating legislator. The cost to live in this country would drop dramatically(think medical) and we’d all be much safer(think NRA).
Addressing the various ways to meet code. I saw primarily Douglas Fir structural lumber in western Oregon. The cost to get it graded is significant and can very easily eat up your profit. I found, and developed a market for ground-contact treated lumber and posts. Even though the cost to have it treated is high, the premium on the sales price more than makes up for it AND the treating company always grades it as part of what they charge you.
You've answered a question I've wondered about but never sought out. Thanks!
In our county the building inspectors brother owns a lumberyard bet you can guess where you have to get your materials if you want your building to pass. And yes I live in Illinois.
That kind of nepitism should be easy for any developer to set up a joint sting operation. Does the brother with the lumber-yard offer his materials at a reasonable price? If there is a direct instruction on the part of the planning department, that can be recorded and used in court,... unless the Judge is also related.
@@jacobnoble8778 good point about corrupt judges
All too common no joke
Illinois? ISNT that the origin of graft and deficits?
@@ronskancke8166 that would be texas
You worry too much, I’m going to bet your wood is better than Home Depot’s would, I bet buying a rubberstamp machine is way cheaper than a inspector if you know what I mean
That’s taking evil genius to a whole other level. 🤣
Absolutely - and a great way to get a lot time to do an inspection of the iron bar hotel - if you know what I mean.
@@nicolaihvass123 and that joke just went right over your head.
Ya buddy!
@@nicolaihvass123 That wouldnt send you to prison, just stick you with 6 figures worth of fines. Worst case if you couldn't pay the fees, they'd make you tear the building down.
Here in NY stamped and coded means sales tax and protection for mega box store lumber. We've had a full sized Lane mill for years, and I'm about to purchase a band mill for the smaller logs, and what we produce makes Lowes or home depot lumber look like crate wood. This is good to know about the possibility of having the lumber that inevitably comes out better then what you can buy inspected for structural quality. Thanks for the good discussion.
Excellent video that clearly explains the issues with using self-milled lumber. Thank You!
Mind Blown!!! Some of these comments are "Wow!" also. Thank you!! Taking a second look at my timber.
Right!
Um imediatly
Wow. Mind blown... Oh my word! This is so great.
Man!!!!! I'm so glad that your video showed up in my "recommended" videos. Thanks for your time and knowledge!! Plus...."new sub"!!
this is amazing.....just ran across the video, thank you as im getting ready to build a house next year and was thinking of doing this but didnt know how to proceed......i do work at a sawmill and we just bought a tract with 200,000 board ft of pine
The reason wood has to be graded is because of all the people who died from having their house collapse on them when they built with ungraded lumber....said no one ever.
the insurance industry demanded these regs......
@@redhed9776 Insurance companies can suck my nuts. I am getting screwed over on a title insurance claim against a garage that was built not to code, without a permit and is starting to come down. They are trying to "make it right" by giving me enough to rip it down, and not replacing the structure, which legally, written right in the policy is what they are supposed to cover. Heck, even my adjuster is saying so.
And that is on those that decide to build with said lumber. Just cant imagine how the settlers did so well....
@@sheepdoglogic The ones who survived did well.
Paul
I live at 6500' and some of the structures were built back in the 1920's. 2x4 every two ft for rafters and 2x2 for studs every 2 - 4 ft. Some walls only had enough studs to frame in a window and a door. They had 2 - 6 ft of snow on them some winters. But they arent collapsing.
LOL "That 2x6 actually cost more than my college tuition!" Subbed!
Yep, guess why young people don't buy houses! :p
Not only do the 2x6 cost more, the tuitions are even higher! :D
Nice job of explaining the concerns and the proper way to go about staying compliant with the building codes. I was taught that the codes don't exist for YOUR safety, but rather for the safety of the person who later buys it from you or your heirs. Basically turns it into a commerce regulation type of thing, like functional for intended purpose....
My mind is definitely blown and I look forward to doing the same to my father in law. He’ll enjoy learning this
Last time I had my wood checked for moisture it only cost me $80 and the hotel room.
Well obviously signs of insect infestation here.... crooked, bowed, softwood.
Doesn't want to waste gas on the trip out....so gives it a quick stamping anyway.
She says to herself I know this one's going to wind up in a dumpster behind Home Depot
I'm not proud that I understood this reference immediately
There's a small joke in there somewhere.
I'm thinking about homes, barns, and garages still standing after 150 years. We don't need no stinking inspection!!!.
There was a hell of alot more, too. They fell down
Back in the day my grandpappy built his farm buildings house several hunting cabins and deer blinds out of the trees he harvested from his 440 acre property. He had his own sawmill (not the bandsaw ones of today but circular type saw blade. It must've been a 24"-36" blade). As a kid I remember being in the building while it was in operation "LOUD". Those were good days back then. Simpler times.
Great subject that I've never given much thought to, having that inspection report could go a long in resolving future insurance claims if the need arises. Great video thanks.
so i'm a lumber grader , going back to the early 1990's , and pretty much everything you said is bang on . if your going to get a grading agency in to stamp your lumber i would do things a little differently .
i would sort for size and length , then in each section , i would makes piles of #1 , 2 and better , #3 , and stud ..... this also means the person running the mill needs to be familiar with the grades .
sorting it this way will speed things up , as will being highly organized
Thank God there are no restrictions, permits, or codes where I’m building
Thanks for making this video and it was truly eye opening, and has me thinking about milling my own lumber.
Thanks for the video, I’m currently researching on this topic for my mill and building operation. Good info