My DIY Geothermal System Was So CHEAP!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2020
- If you've ever thought geothermal is out of your price range, I'm here to tell you that you may be surprised at how affordable it actually is. I did my own diy geothermal system for about the same price as a typical 13 to 14 SEER HVAC system, and I get double the efficiency. If you are willing to put in some work, you too can afford this option and reap the benefits of lower utility costs ongoing. A geothermal heat pump is one of the most efficient systems out there.
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Thank you all for watching my video. Make sure to check out a couple of my other Geothermal videos:
Geothermal Cost Breakdown: th-cam.com/video/mjWsSmjAOeU/w-d-xo.html
Geothermal 4 year review: th-cam.com/video/xc_BbbMi1cg/w-d-xo.html
Can a “burn barrel” for our trash be implemented into this kind of system? Really I’m just tired of forgetting to set the herby out on the Curb. But if the trash could be repurposed and utilized for heating, that would be cool
Kinda like a trash compactor-furnace?
@@KEW-pd1jn I don't think so, but who knows
@@Challenged1 cool thanks.
Which is a better set up. One giant loop or multiple loops and a manifold setup? Just planning my system.
Wow! I'm a commercial building engineer and this is the best explanation I have seen of a residential use break down of a heat pump and geothermal systems. No youtube hype filler. Thank you for a great video!
Thank you for the kind words!!!
A refreshingly clear BS free description of heat pump heating cooling.
Still don't know where the heat is coming from.
Awesome free info. Thanks
@@Martin_HermannYour fridge is a heat pump. If you feel the air coming out of the vent (usually bottom front) it is warm air. That air was heated by pumping heat out of your fridge (via coils and a compressor). Pumping heat out of the fridge keeps it cold.
Residential geothermal is the same idea, but the inside of the fridge is replaced by the ground.
I work for a Geothermal exclusive company in the NW Chicago area. We do the entire job start to finish. Vertical boring is what you do in a city...it is possible in most areas. 150ft/ton straight down. We bore 5" holes drop the pipe, grout with bentonite/graphite mix. Also we use methanol as an antifreeze and have protection to 15°F. Not possible on every city job. But many more than most people think. I am one of very few Geothermal service techs in the area as well. I cant lie. Self installed Geo systems scare me. I have seen some nightmare jobs. That being said. This is a VERY GOOD VIDEO. Informative and correct in all aspects. Great job on this sir!
Great info, thanks!!!
If you don't mind sharing, what would you guys charge for a typical 4 ton system with the vertical boring all in?
Your estimates were about spot on. 4 tons would cost between 40-50k depending on geological make up. That's for a full job start to finish.
@@jeremymacklem2510 Thank you.
@carguy Thank you!!!
"Try to do it right, so you only do it once" is an excellent motto and one that I try to adhere to.
I was digging a 14 deep 3/4 acre lake /pond on my property so I simply laid my collection system in the bottom of the pond which luckily was blue clay hardpan and then covered it with 4 inches of sand backfill . My unit was a 4 ton and my home was 2300 sq ft with 10 ft ceilings and 18 ft in my large living room . My electrical bill for the year was 825 dollars total for heat and air conditioning . Excellent
Thank you for sharing
Get some solar and its free forever!
@@KznnyL Solar what? photovoltaics? They might last 20 to 25 years. They are environmental disasters because of the rare earth metals used, there destroy our planet worse than oil or coal. The FIRST system in every house should be SOLAR HOT WATER (and solar sub-floor heating). The second system might be best as geothermal cooling. The pumps for solar hot water and for geothermal can be photovoltaic as that might make sense, but photovoltaic in general is an environmental crime.
My parents did that way in 1979. Heating pump is still working now !
Did they never had any problems? What kind of expansion valve does it have?
wow! would u share the build?
@@KarlAlfredRoemer I don't know. All valves are built in the heating pump unit. Only 2 ports are used to cycle water in ground heat exchanger. The only problem occured in 2009, had to change a fuse after a lightning strike.
Expansion valve , can you share the build ?
You guys are way over thinking this ,
It's simple , I'm doing the exact same thing except I'm using a small pump ,
It pumps water from a 22 foot deep and 4 foot diameter water Well , the water comes up around 55° degrees , goes through a simple car radiator and runs back into the well ,
I use an everyday square box fan like you can buy a store to blow the 55° degree temperature out in the summer and it cools , but in winter and it's 32° and freezing , I'm still blowing 55° degree heat out ,
I have a Wood Burner for heat , so I don't really use it as much as I do in the summer
At this point it would probably be worth the money to replace the heatpump... Better efficiency among other things
Thank you for your video on geothermal heat/air. I built my home about 15 years ago and installed two 3 ton heat pumps. I have been considering updating them to geothermal to get more efficiency and because I have a five acre pond 250 foot from my home that I could use in a closed loop system. The pond stays at a consistent depth because of some springs that feed it. I also have a backhoe to dig a trench from the house to the pond. Being retired and 76 years old I have not been as inclined to do this as I would have 15 years ago! But you have inspired me.
I wish you luck. Sounds like a great plan to me
water loop is the best for heat transfer actually 👍
I’m in school as an HVAC Tech, and my school had us working with a geothermal setup. Ever since then I’ve been fascinated. I’m glad I found your channel, I’m looking forward to viewing more of your content
th-cam.com/video/7J52mDjZzto/w-d-xo.html
@@Luckmorne th-cam.com/video/MUWjjjFgXdg/w-d-xo.html
Had a geothermal unit added at my home in the 1990's. I forgot to have it checked for 20 years, called my installer and he said if I was having no problem leave it alone so I have. Love this thig, figure I save $100. per month on electric bill from my old heat pump.
I have no intention of doing this and yet I couldn't stop watching this video. Very interesting.
Thank you for your support
100%
But I'm a hvac tech.
Same. Too small of yard for myself. Oh well super cool for people who can
You and me both. The 'to the point' presentation c/w the videography, had me watching with great interest.
Important to note that when using distilled water or reverse osmosis water (RO), you have to be careful about what fittings and piping are used and where. Polypropylene, Polyethylene and 316L SS are preferred for high purity waters. You can use PVC and CPVC, but they are more prone to failure long term. This particularly true when using glycols for freeze protection.
Excellent points!!!
Thats a joke. Very pure water is less corrosive than water with impurities in it. 316 is needed for sea water though.
@@Challenged1 No, bad points. Very pure water has a resistance of something like 18.2 Meg ohms. In order for corrosion to occur, there needs to be an anode and a cathode, and some impurities in the water for the ion exchange to occur. For example, try electrolysis on some lab grade ultra pure distilled water at a low voltage. It won't work because the water is a very good insulator. Add a little baking soda to it however, and suddenly you'll get good production of Brown's gas (2:1 hydrogen to oxygen ratio).
I would suggest just using filtered tap water as long it is of decent quality. The mineral content in a closed loop is fixed at the first fill, and as long as it doesn't require regular topping off, the limited mineral content is not enough to cause any problems down the road.
@@brnmcc01couldn't you use a sacrificial anode?
I have a geo system in a suburban neighborhood with a 0.4 acre lot. It runs a closed, 460’ deep single loop. Been running flawlessly for 5 years. Only issue I had was my neighbors thought I was insane when the 30-ton drill rig showed up at my house!
It'd be the talk of the town in my tiny neighborhood!! Just moving here created a stir!
Wow. 460ft is crazy deep. What temps are you getting in your loop? I imagine it would be a lot warmer than say 20ft deep loop
Either going to get a go loop installed or strike oil and be rich
We installed a closed loop geothermal five years ago in a single 450’ well. It supplies all our heating, air conditioning, and hot water. We did not hook up the backup hvac heat strips nor the backup hot water elements. No problems, and we have only had annual preventative maintenance services. We elected to do the single well rather than the ditches all over our yard. Our power bills have been low all year and we have been well pleased with the system.
Looking into Geothermal options now and received a quote from Dandelion for 44k. Are there any other options in the northeast?
We are building a new home on land and only option is propane. Builder is recommending a heat pump but trying to find a better/cheaper way to heat and cool my home. Any tips?
@@JohnSmith-fi2gu Geo is the way to go. Just put a new one in January it is a Water furnace brand probably one of the top of the line you can get. Old one was 27 years old when it stopped working. Other then servicing it yearly nothing was every replace on it. Acid flushed it every 2 to 3 years. Was looking at option and talk to my electric supplier and they said spend the money on the Geo bills will be lower. the install was $17 k for 3ton unit we have a open loop system water well and then drain tile. You can do vertical wells and a closed loop system or the ground system. The hot water is not really something you will get much benefits from because of how it is done the installer said and my location as well.
@@SUPERCARSOFWESTCHESTER I know this is late but Water furnace
@@JohnSmith-fi2gu also there is a 26% tax credit till end of your one GEO system
We have had geo thermal now for 5 years. Best hvac system for comfort and low electric bills year round. Can freeze out the house in august and not worry about the bill.
Our property has one too, but we disconnected it a couple years after moving in. It was set up badly by the previous owner. It was done professionally, but not well. They used two deep rock wells. One to pull the water out of, and service the water needs of our property, and the other well to dump the water back into. The problem we had was the pump drawing the water out of the main well, was always breaking down, and had to be serviced several times a year. I think a ground loop is the way to go, but we never got around to having one installed.
@@dkeith45 Ground loop is much better.
@@LoanwordEggcorn Is ground loop the same as the closed loop as mentioned in the video?
@@mathewmiletich5986 Yes.
@@dkeith45 sounds like the glass is half full, call a pro and fix the issues with better equipment/design using the existing wells
I installed 2 geothermal heat pumps when I had my house built back in 2001. Had engineers design the system for a 2.5 ton for one area of the house and 3 ton for larger area.
Used 300’ per ton as length of tubing. So ended up with 2 loops 6-8’ deep one goes out with pipe in bottom of trench leak tested and back filled with 2’ over that pipe, top pipe is 6’ deep for a total for 2.5 ton is 1000’
3 ton unit has 1 continuous loop of 1000’ 8-10th deep.
System was designed without additional electric heat for a backup. In 21 years have not needed it either, even at 10pm outside.
Very happy with this system. Did not use anything but water with make up valve and expansion tank, no glycol at all.
Pipes are in the attic which I run 2 pumps in winter 24/7 to prevent them from freezing, summer they run with compressors.
Did all the work myself except for the digging, hired that for $1,000.00, and I tested for leaks and back filled myself.
Would do it again except would use antifreeze with a back flow preventer.
House has 6’’ walls and very efficient. Heat pumps are Trane.
Thank you for sharing
You're amazing
I'm glad someone else has already done & proven what I've had in my mind for awhile that this is doable (I'm no expert but have a fair grasp of general science). Thanks for sharing! Hope the system's going strong.
Great explanation of heat pump technology! I put one in my house 18 years ago and cut my electric bill by about 60 plus percent and summer time hot water for free. Used my old hot water heater as tank and a new in demand hot water heater. I am absolutely thrilled with the technology! Regards
Could you explain that a little more? You're system sounds like something I want to do
You need to change out that "on demand" for a solar water heater!
An excellent rundown of what you did, good sir. I just found your channel and will most certainly be perusing the rest of your videos, especially the ones about actually building a working system, since I am currently looking at such a thing to complement the fully off-grid power system I am constructing for my own home.
Hey quick comment. In my experience, I've used 50/50 for non automotive use. As an automotive professional, I know that antifreeze/coolant also has lubricants, anti corrosion, anti organic life, on top of other additives. Diluting antifreeze may cause premature impeller and bearing wear, loss of anticorrosive properties, and affect the PH level allowing organic life to grow. Mind you this takes a really long time.
Even though you may not need "antifreeze", I do recommend something like freezetone that offers such additives to continue protecting your system with superior conductive properties.
in some places it is not legal to allow anti freeze to be used in a circuit that is not independent of the well altogether. Actually that should not be legal. this would mean two exchangers mot likely.
@@djea3589 you're absolutely right. A leak from this system would be a spill hazard.
I'm recommending this to my airport manager as he is thinking of developing some new hangers/building at our municipal airport. He loves DIY and this could spark some new ideas since we have a lot of land to work with. -Thank you!
They can go deep with a closed loop system, if you have limited space. Instead of drilling two wells for an open loop, you drill one hole and place the heat sink loop in the hole. It may not be as efficient as placing that loop at one specific depth, but it's still way more efficient than air to air heat exchanges.
Thanks for this breakdown. It’s by far, the most comprehensive and UNDERSTANDABLE explanation of this type of HVAC system that I could find.
My father's cousin installed a well type geothermal system in her yoga center in the late 1980's. I have had dreams of building a system exactly as you describe for several years now. Since I would build this into my existing hydronic heating system, my main investments would be in a water to water geothermal unit and a some small fan-coils with condensate drains to be used for hydronic cooling on a separate loop. I have a backhoe attachment for my tractor, keeping the trenching investment down to diesel and time like in your case. Thank you for the guidance on tax incentives - I was considering looking into that aspect and you gave me some good places to start. Nice work on your build and I am happy to see that you have had such a positive result!
Thanks!!! I wish you luck with your system!
This was my first exposure to seeing how a geothermal system actually looks. I am very interested in this technology and have not bought land yet, so I really appreciate your tips about a large piece of land and building in clay soil.
Once I saw a system that uses solar vacuum tubes in which the sun heats the water inside and the water doesn't lose temperature to the environment because of the vacuum walls. It works even in forecast days and can boil water even in snow, that was pretty clever too!
Sounds expensive
Sounds interesting!
Yes, I would like to do a Geothermal System for my heating & Cooling for my residence. Thank you for sharing. I was certainly inspired by the information.
We're same boat. No natural gas, 100% electric. Trying to move our house off-grid for power and heating and cooling are the biggest obstacles. We have plenty of land and I'd love to try. We just replaced the downstairs unit and the HVAC guy talked us out of GT. My guess, even though they list it as a service, they probably don't like to do them. I like the idea of doing it myself. Another excuse to rent machinery!
Any excuse to run machinery is a good excuse.
I wonder what power usage would be on off grid solar power system with batteries? Would it work?
@@johnwillard6749 that's what we'd like it for. We installed grid-tied solar 2 years ago with the plan of going off-grid when storage becomes more affordable.
I have a house in Maine off grid with large solar system. Just would not want to have to run generator
less headaches likely to just add a larger ground mounted solar array than go digging and dealing with all that to save a fraction of the easier route
I didn't know you could do this! Thank you. Saving this for later watching.
I built 12 years ago. Three zones with 6T of cooling. Four trenches 12 feet deep with 9,000 ft of 1" HDPE tube. Great system and very efficient. 29SEER Florida H.P. now Bosch.
Always have been curious how a geo thermal unit works. Now I know exactly! Thanks👍
Glad to help
Thank you, clear and concise, you eliminated all the mystery involved in G/T with your explanation, appears pretty simple, just labor intense.
Great video! Easy to understand. You explained very clearly how this works. You sound like an engineer that’s been doing this for years. Thanks.
Thank you, looking at Bosch heat pumps now. I'm also a non-qualified (non-ticketed) builder planning to build a unique home and considering using underground cisterns as a switched heat source/sink for a seasonal boost in efficiency. Lots to learn. Thank you for this information.
I'll watch the other half of the video later but so far you are explaining this better than most teachers 👍🏼🍺
Thanks for the kind words.
That's why most teachers don't have hundereds of thousands of people paying attention to thier class.
You can do something very similar on a boat in some areas. The water around the boat is typically cooler than the air in summer and warmer than the air in winter. If you can utilize this difference you are that much more efficient. Marine heat pumps have been around for years and my particular favorite is the MarineAir 16,000 btu 120 volt model. There are things you must do however. There must be an hull strainer and an in line raw water strainer before the water pump. The strainer and pump must be below the water level that’s outside of the hull. There must be a flow switch (not provided) to shut things down if there’s an obstruction. Loss of flow can be more catastrophic in winter because slow flowing water can freeze the water in the heat exchanger, rupture and flood the hull. Moisture alarms throughout a boat is always a good idea. A condensate pump to move water overboard is also required. It’s also preferable to have the heat pump unit above water level so when it cycles off some water runs backwards through the impeller pump and the two strainers help with backwashing and keeping things clear.
I just bought a place in Tennessee and I plan on putting geothermal in it. I'm in the process now of power cables and driveway and I'm going to try to do my geothermal tubing in the ground at the same time. I plan on running mine to a well house where I'll have a storage tank where it will circulate the glycol water solution and then from there out to my greenhouse out to my house and whatever other little project I've got going. Thank you very much for the update.
Wow, outstanding job! Thanks for explaining how a heat pump works (best I have ever heard). The amount of explanation and knowledge from you helped me understand so much. Watching this video should earn you a diploma of some kind.
I appreciate the kind words
I was shopping for a furnace once long ago and a normal natural gas furnace is $7000. So spending $17k on a geothermal unit is actually pretty fantastic. Especially that you don't have to spend the money on natural gas hookup or the monthly gas bill.
So I’m most places it would be cheaper to hear with natural gas then geothermal. The cooling component is cheaper then an ac unit but for heating natural gas is cheaper even though it is more efficient but the gas is simply cheaper to heat with.
@@sd8c With modern air-source heat pumps, in most places in the USA, burning one cubic meter of natural gas in a high efficiency furnace produces LESS heat than burning the same amount of gas at a power plant to produce electricity, sending that electricity to the house through the grid, and using that electricity to run the heat pump. Ground-source heat pumps do this even better.
@@sd8c Not that much anymore. I thought the same as you until I did a comparison just yesterday. Nat gas in April 2023 - $13.65, June - $17.29. Electric in June $18.03 kwh in my county. It's $13.53 in other counties that have their own electrical power facilities. Being made unaffordable.
@@sd8c, until the Democrats apply a pollution tax to it or ban it. They are screwing everything up.
There are also programs you can get using Geo through the electrical companies, I get 50 percent off of the electrical cost to run geo year round. Plus I run solar and summer cost for air conditioning is nothing, winter in northern WI worst heat bill including water is 85 dollars for the month.
@@mfb6310
Thanks for that Video
I can add some points that you didn't mention.
1) you forgot to mention that not only the cold side of the heat pump makes a difference in cop but also the hot side. At first I would optimize at the inside. You showed pictures of ducts inside the house. I assume your heat pump creates warm air that is going to be distributed across your building. As you mentioned water is more eglibe for transfering heat, i would suggest to use that instead of air. normally at my home country you would run coils in the floor of your building, warming that. That way the heat pump only has to heat up the water to 95°F in winter time to keep your home warm. The pump that delivers the heat to the whole building eats up only about 10 - 30 Watts, what is sure less than a fan needs. Additionally in the rooms you won't have noise and air movement.
1b) We here also do some ducts but we run them only to exchange the used air against fresh air from outside so you need to open the windows less for air quality. This air is brought inside the building by a heat recovery exchanger to lessen the heat loss.
2) to decide if a ground heat source or outside air source is better it is important to knwo where you're at, how many hours per year it is going to be how cold. If you know that you can do the math and then decide the annual more - or less energy you need for either system
3) you also want to have your ground analysed to know if it is better or worse suitable for the geothermal system you describe before making descisions
4) There is no xxx feet of pipe is needed per ton. this is absolutely dependent on the kind of ground and the operating hours per year, and if you plan to use antifreeze in the system. There are people around who have software to simulate this.
5) Antifreeze: Normally you want to use 0% or 20 - 33% of antifreeze, if you use glycol. the glycol we get here contains anticorrosive elements. Therefore you better inform yourself and fill in the mixture that is mandated by the manufacturer. If you design your coil for usage with plain water and get into trouble you can always later change to antifreeze filling. Be aware that you will never design your coil to be sub zero celsius (freezing point of water), or you'll suffer of performance of your ground coil, or even destroy it as time goes by if you repeatingly freeze the ground around it.
6) If you need to cool the house in summer you can use the water of about soil temperature and send it to your pipes in the floor. that way you don't need any energy (apart from the two pumps) to cool down your house. If you are at a warmer region and that is not enough you can reverse your heat pump or have a air handler that is connected to the outside coil
7) if your garden is to small then use vertical drilled holes. they need to be quite long and this is nothing for DIY, as it requires special skills. the length and the amount of those borings need to be simulated, to ensure that you will be able to use them for the desired life span. in several hundred feet depth the heat is not really easy moved and if your vertical collector is to small you risk of cooling it down to an unusable temperature in 5 or 10 years.
by the way: if you connect your AC to it and heat your heat source up in summer time it helps a lot, so you need smaller borings and get an almost infinite life span out of it.
8) water quality: I'm pleased somebody speaks about the water that is going to be filled in a circuit. yes, you can use destilled water, that's great. At my place we have special water softener resin cartridge that take out all of the salt (not to mistake for ion exchanger resin that can be regenerated with salt), what gives almost the same quality of water as destilled water. Advantage: you don't have to carry the water around but have a small cartridge you connect to your tap water. Cheaper? maybe not, depends.
9) about the layout of your trench: it is not always best to dig as low as possibe. The design of your collector needs to make as much as possible use of the ground between the collectors. If you speak a little bit of german or know how to use the translator then you can find tons of useful informations and another angle of sight how we're doing such things in europe. Assumed you understand metric units maybe you will find it interesting to read on some forums and company websites. try following words in google: grabenkollektor, ringgrabenkollektor, trenchplanner.
I love listening to your videos. I'm thinking about doing geothermal in my house barn and garage all-in-one. But I would like to do in floor resident. Thank you for addressing soil types. With your comment about rock I probably will have to use my pond.
I think this makes sense in almost any climate but especially new builds in cold climates (along with going above code for insulation and air sealing).
You're wrong about people in the city having only one option, the open loop, because there are vertical closed loop systems also.
We had GT done here in northern west Michigan of course it’s all sand they went at least 15 feet down on a closed loop works great we have filled our propane tank once in 4 years and we use most of propane in the fire place, we received two years of tax breaks and money from the electric cooperative, one of the best investment’s ever we also run on solar and have batteries.
I doubt if I'm going to install this system but thanks for a really clear explanation. Probably the best I've seen on the subject.
Great video! I have zero plans to go geothermal, but watched the whole vid to learn about it. Very informative!
Thank you, this was very helpful, I'm thinking of doing this in a small house in England with a reasonable garden
Explained very well...
here in sweden we do a lot of geothermal. the area required is about a few square meters as we use a borehole of about 120 meter depth (closed loop). the whole process is highly automated and a heat well is done in about a days work, start to finish. the heat pumps used have a cop value of about 5. in summer time they can dump heat from thebhouse down the well. abd thebwhole installation can be done on the parking lot.
How's the cost side?
Can you send a link to suitable websites and / or tutorials please? Thank you
@@asdasdasdasdasd9795 installation costs are pretty standard the heatpumps is about 7000 dollars, and the installation about as much (done by proffesionals in about 1-2 days) so in total about 14k dollars (at current conversion rate). in running cost it takes aproximately 20 kwh per 24/h period to heat a normal hose (including hot water) in the winter time. so yeah whatever your electricity cost. normal lifespan is about 25 years on the pump.
@@simonharris3709 as stated, i am swedish and most links and tutorials are swedish/nordic. but sure i can add some web sites if your interested.
@@johndoe1909 I’d be very interested in some good links if you have some! Chrome translates sites pretty well. Or even just the correct terms to search on in Swedish. Air source heat pumps for hot water are rare here in Australia and ground source even rarer. Would be super interesting to see how Sweden arranges it.
at some point in the future , definitely. I was aware of some of what you said, but I was not aware of not needing a heating and cooling person. Thanks I enjoyed all your Geothermal videos.
Thanks for sharing your experience, that was great information.
This is a great video and provides more "real world" explanation than any I've seen.
I did this too. Dug really deep and long tracks all over the place. I can honestly say it worked great!
My neighbor was really annoyed that I dug up his yard, but hey, 'if you want to make an omlette...'
This was one of the best, most informative videos I've ever seen on TH-cam, possibly on the interwebz!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Thank you sooooo much, Garrett. Ima show my bf and this is the system we'll prolly use on our new house! 🏡
Right on! Up here in Nova Scotia I installed a geothermal system 12 years ago. 4500 feet of “slinky-style” pipe in clay soil, lots of ground water, eight foot trenches, did my own electrical, cost about 20k. Paid $3600 for oil heat one season when oil prices were at their worst, now average 1200 to 1450 per season. Only way to go, for my money.
@@douglasshaffner288, Oil heat is the WORST! And this winter they are expecting the cost to be around $7 per gallon, so if you burned 500 gallons in your worst year, expect that cost to have doubled! Hopefully you have a heat pump water heater as well?
Thanks for the video and I am changing my old unit out next year and I am researching best options.
Lot's to learn
Here in Denmark we often install geothermal on much smaller lots. Heating mainly. But a typical lot here in the cities is about 800m2 or 1/5 acre.
We use a different layout of the heat collectors in the ground but have very good history with that.
I service systems that are 20+ years old and have had nothing done to them other than yearly service.
Excellent!!! Thanks for sharing
What is the difference in the heat collector laid out?
@@mikemorris5730 probably a deep hole instead of a horizontal trench
@@CommieCat I'd assume you're right since she said that they install them on very small lots. They probably can't dig out into their neighbor's yard so they dig down instead
Are any of these geothermal systems in Denmark used for hydronic radiant floor heat? What brand are the systems that are 20 years old? Thanks
Subbed. I'm looking forward to learning more from your channel. Great videography as well.
Very detailed, straightforward, and clear. Thank you for sharing.
You can build a still an distill the water your self I'd have a preference in type of pipe sounds like you did good like it . My zone ground temp 65°F below 24" yes I'd use geo thermal .
This was popular back in the 70's where I live . However, were out in the middle of nowhere Tennessee. We also do something like this , but use compost piles instead. Our compost piles are 20 feet wide by 100+ feet long and about 10 feet tall. The water gets up to 150 degrees. I have one heating my shop right now.
thats actually really interesting! but in that case arent you only taking care of heating for cold weather? that doesnt sound like a solution for cooling in hot weather as useful as it sounds for heating
Sounds like a great idea! Thanks
I'm a fellow Tennessean and I love the idea. I'm wanting to convert to being more self sufficient. Gardens animals and doing stuff like this. Can you give me some advice?
@@endlessdesert3122 Google: Jean Pain mound
Thank you for being so informative. I am building a new ICF home on 100 acres with only electricity . Lots of land for a trench loop system. Along with a nice backhoe to dig with. I can do much of what's required with some help, just as you did. I was inspired by your details. Thanks again, Mr.George
Thanks for this very informative session. I'm really curious on the cost of the Bosch unit. We've buried a ground loop (three x 400' at 13ft depth) and plumbed the closed loop...we did it for the fun of it and for an experiment with a "non heat pump" A/C. Now when it comes to getting a geothermal heat pump unit...well...we are tempted to see if we can DIY that as well. I'll start looking specifically for Bosch self contained units...just so we know what it will mean when amateur hour and learning time runs out...and we can decide on a purchase. Thanks again.
Outstanding presentation - good, practical content that didn't skate over the surface or shy away from theory; it was thoughtfullly organised and edited, and fluently presented. Thank you very much. And what a joy to hear proper un-mumbled sentences entirely free of 'like' 'insane' 'awesome' and other examples of sloppy education & thinking.
You are very kind!!!
You forgot starting every sentence with "So..." and then "crazy"
n taking the time to talk to us in a way that gives us time grasp your words to not b rushed into stress. n also not boring us with other useless syllables, ah, umm, n no background "music" or other ambiant animal, people, n traffic noises camouflaging your message is refreshing. just u n i. Cudos
A little over a decade ago, while living in PA, I had to replace our furnace and AC. I chose to go geothermal. The installer put in a vertical closed loop system with two wells to take advantage of the heat transfer properties of the water. My old furnace was propane fired and was really expensive to operate (over $600/mo in the cold season). After all the tax credits, the geothermal system ended up being $8500 more than a high end hybrid propane/heat pump system. This included installation of an 80 gallon hot water heater and 55 gallon buffer tank. I had estimated a return on investment of just over 3 years. It ends up, the gt heat pump was so efficient, I got my money back in just over 2 years. Winter heating costs dropped to less than $55/mo. Summer cooling dropped by more than $100, and I also got free hot water in the summer due to the buffer tank. And, because the system ran more frequently than my old one, it was way more comfortable. I really miss that system.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you for your effort to inform people
do you have any diagrams and material costs? i am really interested...thank you
@@Challenged1 , I think Kelly's question is for you. My system was professionally installed, so I don't have a full material list. The unit was a Waterfurnace Envision. I don't remember the brand of the hot water heater, buffer tank or desuperheater. Total cost before tax credits was a little under $27,000. There was a 30% federal tax credit as well as a smaller PA tax credit at the time. I still have the project proposal and my calculations on savings prior to moving, as well as annual maintenance invoices.
@@kellykay185 I have other videos that may have what you are looking for.
Great video very informative. That being said I work for a company that treats these types of systems and there are a few things to keep in mind. Yes water is better at transferring heat but if you go below 18% glycol you will have sever bacterial growth in the system. This can rob it of efficiency while also causing maintenance issues. I wouldn't go below 30% with a glycol mix. Also if you are using a gycol mix it is extremely important that the water you mix it with is pure water whether that be distilled, DI or RO because regular water will form precipitates that can reek havoc on the system like the bacteria. I like the comment below me on using methanol although going with just water and keeping it moving would work too.
How about running the water lines through UVC?
thanks for this great info! I appreciate you taking the time to help out others considering this great option!
Well, I wasn't thinking about geothermal in my next house, but now,... it sounds like a wise notion.
Carl you will not regret i had myb6 years an no trouble an love it!!!!! So cheap electric bill!!
The install process seems overwhelming but 25 years later it will still be as good!
Yes I always wanted one of these geothermal systems... Thanks for some new ideas and all of your information
You're very welcome
You can combine closed systems with standard submerged water tanks, especially if they are made from galvanised steel, which conducts heat to the surrounding earth well.
Not for geothermal you can't
Worked at a Wastewater treatment facility, learned of buried tanks that leaking, were pulled out to learn why and where, and realized they were destroyed by thousands of tiny pinhole leaks caused by microbes in the ground. Maybe location matters. Apparently there are millions of yet unknown undiscovered microbes tearing up ocean liners too.
Great video. I've got a 5 acre farm, 4 producing alfalfa and one doing squat with a massive 50x100 shed I want to temperature control & grow food in year round (Colorado). THIS is exactly what I've been thinking of albeit I now need to start pricing the units & how to build the manifold.
Will watch other videos now.
Great video, very well explained. Your system and the logic behind it is great too. Good job. I love you can do it yourself attitude.
But you need to redesign your manifold as yours will not have even distribution of flow to each run of pipe. They will be significantly different and it will decrease your units efficiency proportionately. You may think that it is possible to balance it with valves, but a new manifold is a much better idea as that will reduce efficiency also.
The manifold pipe diameter has to be increased greatly. I would increase it by a factor of between 4 and 8. Your feed an return lines to the pump can remain the same. If you do this you will guarantee that each line has equal pressure.
I hope that this helps. 👍
Thanks for showing the unit and not just talking the whole time. It really helps to understand it.
Glad to help
Very common technology here in the EU. We call it Ringgrabenkollektor. Very efficient and great for heating and cooling houses.
I really enjoy your way of explaining things. It adds a new level of understanding for A DYIer like me.
My aunt has a 15 year old one. It is on my list of things I want to do, but until the other things finished I'll need to put it off.
Never install a radiant ceilung of slab system. Impossible to TS n repair a break.
@@800lbgrila I should take note of that
Going to do one on 5 acres. Northern nevada has crazy temperature swings. I think geothermal would be hugely efficient. Thanks for the video.
Good deal!!!
Is this a new house or one that is already built? If you're building the geo is just part of your system. There's other things that need to be done along with the geo system.
Also going to be doing one in Nevada. NW corner. And everything will be solar powered.
@@stevelux9854 what will you use for a HVAC system?
@@kenhurley4441 Don't know yet. Still doing research. Out there, because of the low humidity, swamp coolers are very effective at cooling.
Hi!!! And good evening!! I was reading about heat pumps and this has been one of the finest explanations I have seen so far.
Living in an island in the Caribbean, cooling our homes during summer is z very high energy consumption activity, even with high end, high efficiency mini split units. And the energy cost keep rising.... I'm interested on details as well on the hows so I could see how far I could get. Thanks for your videos and very detailed explanation... Sincerely, José
As a point of reference, a book I own about Earth Covered Houses, stated that the minimum amount of earth coverage required to decouple a house from the surrounding air was one metre (or yard), so going down to two or three metres would be more than enough earth coverage for the piping system. The only other thing to consider is that the deeper that you dig your trench the wider it needs to be battered back to prevent collapse during installation.
That book is not very exact. Depth is dependent upon annual frost depth which in the USA in some places is over 3 feet. Certainly there are studies in different arias that give fairly exacting temperature by depth. What you are seeking is a constant temperature zone or two zones, one for cooling and one for heating.
Very cool.
I'd like to do a closed loop geothermal on a new ICF house build and setup closed loop in floor heat as well as loops for a heated sidewalk/patio and driveway.
Could you show more pictures or more video time of your actual work? That would be awesome!!
I think going deep was a smart idea. thats around the point where your're going to have a consistant temperature year round. You may want it cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter but it's about 55f-60f depending on where you are and the material you're in... a heatpump with a geothermal loop sounds like an amazingly efficient thermal producer.
Thank you for the video.
I am presently planning a new build and geothermal is at the top of my list along with solar and wind.
I installed a Fujitsu 12RL mini split heat . pump several years ago and am totally glad I did. 1 unit, centrally located in my 1900 sq ft ranch. I live in Maine and have wood as a back up. The unit produced useful heat at -15 F one winter - it is only rated to -10F by the manufacturer, I was told that is as cold as the testing equipment got. I usually burned 6-7 cords of wood a year, the installer said I would only need1/2 cord a year to supplement the few extreme cold days. I could hardly believe him but he was right on the money. I burned 1/2 cord a year for several years, and last year burned no wood at all. Essentially, a good heat pump is roughly cheaper than any heat source but wood, and about the same as wood but without the labor and mess of wood, which is considerable. I got the heat pump because I was getting older and the wood was not getting easier. I am totally happy with the result. The coldest part of the year I would burn 1 cord a month, at $200/cord. The heat pump costs, during the coldest months, about $150/month extra on my power bill. Yes, in my case it has been cheaper than wood since with wood I heated my basement also, and liked to keep the woodstove cranked right up to keep the chimney clean and heat both floors.With the heatpump, the basement is cool but not too cool.
In the summer, the heat pump is way more efficient than my air conditioner was. During the hottest part of the year, the AC added $80/month to my power bill. The heat pump is much better at cooling than the AC was, and much cheaper to operate as an AC too. A mini split has no inefficient ductwork to heat or cool, and loses no electricity pumping through ducts (my understanding is ductwork can sap up to 10% additional electricity). There is a dehumidifier setting that costs about $15/ month to use continuously in the hot part of the year, and I find that when used, which is all the time in the summer in my case, the AC setting rarely is needed. When the AC setting is used, there is not much impact on my power bill, so it is clearly getting a much greater cooling bang for the buck than my old AC did.
I'm totally happy with my switch to a cold climate heat pump. It paid for itself in 3 years when compared to my old oil furnace, so it will be well worth it even planning on replacing it every 12-15 years or so. The woodstove is excellent backup for power outages, which can be quite long where I live, in fact there was a three day outage this past month, and as a supplement for extended extreme cold, which has not been happening in recent years.
The correct heat pump is the obvious best choice for most homes now, imo. Electricity costs are much stable than heating oil in the long term. You can make your own electricity too, with solar panels. A grid tied solar power system with a mini split or geothermal heat pump is the sweetest arrangement of all, also imo.
Thanks for sharing and totally agree
Yeah, thanks for sharing! Mini-splits are the way to go. Can't believe that HVAC professionals still install duct systems.
Can I ask something? Why don't you get a few solar panels? At least in summer time, they produce electric power for your A/C when you need it (during the day).
@@leonlowenstadter9223 I have 26 panels but have not had $ for installation due to health issues - in fact I may sell the panels which is rather heart breaking.
This is fantastic! I can't wait to do this myself when I get a land of my own. I'm also studying these topics in my engineering degree so I also understand about energy efficiency in thermal systems :)
I sketched out building a new home that would be utility free back around 2006. By adding geothermal to heat and cool as well as to produce hot water (in addition to using 12 volt LED lighting and other efficiencies), I was able to cut the size of the solar generation requirements by almost 60%.
If you go with geothermal, make sure you replace your hot water heater and use a superheater coil connected to the geothermal loop. That extra savings helps justify the costs and keeps any renewable energy costs down.
@@PhilLesh69 Thanks for the advice! You mean what they call a "desuperheater" that uses the waste heat from the heat pump/refrigeration cycle right?
@@eljuanman999 I think so. It's been so long since I researched and put together a plan for a custom home. I know there's extra equipment you can install that will replace a hot water heater. By doing that you've cut down another major energy requirement.
The less energy you need, the lower your wind or solar installation will cost.
I’d like a desuperheater on the hot water system so I can use any saved solar energy to charge electric vehicles. I’m interested in anything that will heat water efficiently. Especially if a hot tub is installed.
Thanks for the clear explanation on how it works. I’ve been thinking of this.
Sierra Foothills in the Gold Country of CA. I’ve thought of installing one for the last 20 years, but the installation costs just didn’t make it viable. Thanks to you, my dream is back!
Garrett, thank you for the thorough presentation. What type of coil if needed for the system? Is there a part number or something similar?
I made another video on the cost of my system which has more info on exactly what I used.
@@Challenged1 Link to your other video?
@@bobmitchell4532 th-cam.com/video/mjWsSmjAOeU/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for the video, first one I’ve watched on GT. Very interesting
Thanks for sharing all that helpful info, I will do one in the near future!
Great video, I had never thought about the reverse valve, brilliant idea!
Garrett: "My system was so cheap!"
Also Garrett: "I paid top dollar for all my equipment!"
I can't wait to do mine.
Who says I paid top dollar? I just bought good quality.
Also- has own mini excavator and is able to do own electrical. DIY, yes for you- but not your typical joe
@@CW-xh8uw I get where you’re coming from - and I love learning DIY- but electrical stuff is something I’m not comfortable doing
@@TJHutchExotics You can rent the proper equipment, which should not cost all that much. Electricity follows the laws of physics, which everyone should have learned at school, which is payed for by taxes and the proper safety measures to follow to do electrical work safely and correct are available from the governing bodies of that field for free on the internet, common sense can help improve safety further.
@@TJHutchExotics I learned electrical all on my own. It started early though, when we were kids, we would unscrew the Christmas lights on the tree and see who could hold their finger in the socket the longest.
I have been wanting the technology to get more affordable. I have had a concept for using geothermal since i was a kid. I am getting close to actually building my dreamhouse. Thank you for this video.
Very cool
This is awesome. I'm in Virginia, this may work pretty well. We do have a lot of red clay, hopefully I can set up our retirement homestead and implement one of these. Using this to run a small self-sufficient farm for my retirement work and allow support the local community.
I'm not even sure how I got here, watched the whole thing though. Thanks for reaching me something new. Lol.
Teaching
i am in Canada and I am definitely considering putting one for the NetZero house that i planning to build in 2 years. I am already on the look out for ides. Thx. for the video.
I'm in Australia, no snow, but frost to -5 degrees C. Up to 45 max summer. I just put in lots of solar PV. Then run a standard heat pump air-conditioning system. I have no power costs at all. All electric home. Geo looks good, but not cost effective for me. Canada, yes I'm sure.
Looking forward to researching Geo in our home. Thanks
I am putting a geothermal system in a new build. Thank you for the great video. I will keep in touch as proceed in the spring. Keep up the great work
Good luck!!!
Great video thank you. I'm on a farm in SD. I'm going to update my house hvac, have quotes for forced air propane and a heat pump. Kicking the tires on the geothermal. We are in a fairly high cost electricity area since we are on a rural co-op system with lots of infrastructure and low density of users-about double compared to in town electric costs in the area.
I have about 6ft of clay top soil but unfortunately we have a sand layer that I'm not sure how deep it goes. Maybe I can get below with horizontal but seems like most recent systems are vertical so I'm guessing that's the recommended route.
I'm giving thought to oversizing my system to have capacity for a midsize year round greenhouse.
Kenny, this is joe b. I think I went to school with you. I put radiant heat in my shop. I used a water to water heat pump. Glycol in the floor, and pump and dump using shallow well.
Installed fitting to clean the coils of scale and rust once a year. It works out well. I keep it at 53 degrees. Will go to 60 or more. I run it lower. because the unit was on sale and a bit under sized.
I have some friends near Mitchell and they install geo. Their prices were nice the last I knew.. ..”affordable geothermal LLC”
I had my horizontal bored 4Ton system installed for $15k before tax incentives. The heatpump was a used unit purchased locally from a private seller upgrading to a larger unit with only 5 years of use on it. They were upgrading as they added an addition and needed more tonnage and a larger unit made more sense rather than a secondary. The horizontal bores were installed with 5 lines of 250 foot in length making a round trip loop of 500ft per loop. A manifold was buried outside by basement so a smallish excavation was needed for that. The manifold is thermally welded to the pipes preventing any possibility of corrosion to clamps. The loops are 1 inch in size and the output of the manifold is 2 inches all of the lines are high density PEX. Part of the install I was in-charge of getting the necessary electric to the unit (not insignificant as there is an emergency aux resistive heater that can carry the needs of the home if there is a catastrophic failure of the heatpump.) The unit was transported from the old home to mine by me but removed from service, validated, and installed in my home by the same company. The antifreeze is a 15% solution of methanol. The lines were pressure tested before attaching to the unit for 24 hours. The unit is rated for 6.1 COP at 68 degrees and 18.8 EER at 86degrees. (full loads reduce those efficiencies a bit). Another point to add is the de-super-heater. This permits me to offset my water heating costs by dumping heat into a potable water buffer tank that pre-heats my well water allowing my main water heaters to work less hard.
I could have higher efficiencies with a variable system rather than a 2 stage and a variable pump rather than a fixed but it made more financial sense to buy a well cared for, inspected, used unit with proper service records than it was for me to purchase a new unit with these more advanced features. At some point I might upgrade the unit but even then the costs will be far less as the lines will never need replaced and have a 100 year warranty. The expected life time from a unit like this is in the decades so a unit with only 5 years is just getting started.
When I was evaluating this I too was in a predicament with the cost to install natural gas at $80k and propane costing around $1500 for half a year. I upgraded my whole house and removed the old propane fixtures installing an induction stove, a heat-pump water heater, and an on-demand electric water heater. I also had solar panels installed that cover all of my electrical needs for over half the year. I also have an electric car and electric mower so those numbers could be higher for a person who drives a gasoline car. As a point of reference I have a builders grade home built in 1985 in NE-OHIO (Zone 5) that is 2016 square foot.
Thanks for sharing
Another point of geothermal is the benefit of no exterior noise, there is no external air handler that is making noise. One negative is the speed of heating is slower on a geo-thermal system as it outputs less BTU per unit of time vs a fossil fuels system. This means if you normally turn your heat way down when leaving the home the time it takes to re-condition the space will take longer. (honestly I don't notice this much and when I leave my home the heat drops to 55 and the AC goes up to 88). A positive is that there is no inherent need for air changes like a traditional fossil fuels system (like I had) that drew air for combustion from the home and exhausted it out the roof. This means it allows the home to leak less air during heating seasons as less air is drawn in though cracks to replenish the air lost though the flu. Air moves slower also on a geothermal unit meaning the ducts are quieter and less dust is spread around. There is also no risk for CO poisonings as there is no combustion occurring. This lowers my home insurance costs as there is less risk of fire. A ground source AC geothermal unit is also more efficient than and older central air - air sourced cooling unit. As said in the video the efficiencies don't vary due to the weather as the ground temperature remains constant. (loads will vary and that can effect efficiencies (what stage is running or the set temp inside the home).
I was also able to sell my old central air unit and furnace for 1k offsetting that out of pocket costs. So after tax incentives and the selling of the old furnace unit my costs were only $9.5k. For that cost I have a system far more efficient, that adds value to my home, improves the air quality, and can be powered by solar. If I ignore the electrical loads and only consider the propane saved with this geothermal unit, I have a payback period of about 4 years. Obviously this ignores the increase in electrical usage from other propane conversion (offset by solar), the reduction of electrical usage in the cooling seasons, the reduction of home insurance, the improved efficiencies of the home system and air tightness, the improved health with less dust and CO/CO2 production, the noise reduction or longevity of a geothermal system vs any other system being exposed to the elements outside or dealing with flames.
@@justinherman9443 Excellent points!!!
I was told the rule of thumb for horizontal bores (not trench laid loops) was one 250 ft length (500 ft total) per ton of heat/cooling. They installed 5 loops to allow additional buffer. I also was told vertical wells are a bit more efficient but come at a higher cost due to the need for a well to be dug. As far as landscape goes except for the disturbed land next to my basement wall where the manifold was installed you would never know that there was any system present. This is nice if you are in a rougher neighborhood as theft of AC units happen in some neighborhoods. Previously I had a 3 ton AC unit, 4 Ton was a better fit when calculations were being preformed on the required loads of the home.
@@justinherman9443 thanks for the serious detail. It helps
Very informative, good job, thanks for this info. I would love to do a geothermal system, I have 40acres, backhoe + 4 dams creek & spring fed, so lot of checks in boxes here. If i get to build that new house we mean to someday, I will definitely consider this option. Cheers
Straight talk, No BS! I’m glad i watched this. Thanks for your time.
I appreciate the kind words