Great video..Can you tell me what kind of monitor was on your desk..I liked the little that I could see. And thank you for your professionalism in showin the T470. Im a die hard OSx user and am wanting a machine for Linux. Looked at System 76, X1 Carbon and was unsure of the thinkpad. You helped me better choose..might be the Thinkpad T470! Love the matte display and industrial look. Cheers
thats my trusty NEC MultiSync 24" rene.rebe.de/2010-04-20/the-perfect-display-color/ rene.rebe.de/2011-09-22/nec-multisync-pa241w-multiprofiler/ services.exactcode.de/amzn.cgi?index=electronics&keywords=nec%20multisync
Great review. I wonder what are your usages like with linux and that particular distro. I currently only use linux for servers, and considering to expand the scope.
I use it for everything, email, web, software development, etc. From around 1998 to 2005 I used Linux for really everything, it was my only OS. Then I started to use macOS, too so it became my daily email, web, office, etc. OS; while still developing and maintaining t2sde.org. I do not really like the development of the latest macOS versions, and they are also becoming too buggy and with all the cloud integration one does not know where what is sent over the network anymore. So I'm currently migrating back to do all my daily main task on Linux. And only boot macOS and Windows VMs for the software development and testing of those. We obviously use #T2SDE on all our servers, with KVM virtualization and help customers with it, also for Embedded Linux development.
Thanks for the review. I am really waffling between the T470s and the X1 Carbon. The size and availability of ports is definitely a big plus for the T470s. I am curious what your battery run time results are on this machine under linux. Also let us know what issues even if minor you find, especially regarding the usage of external monitors/projectors under linux.
Hey Esden! battery life is not yet that great, IIRC the estimate was something over 6 hours in Windows, and with generic, vanilla T2 SDE like trunk:HEAD I get an estimate of 3:45. Still need to play with some idle / cpufreq tuning to see what it can improve. I run the system form an external USB3 SSD, that may draw some power, too. The speakers are obviously not HiFi, but I also noticed that the headphone out quality is not audiophile either. On Linux there is quite some low frequency bass missing, I even double checked with Windows - there it gets totally strange: While it has more bass on Widows I can clearly hear some volume limiting going up and down. So it sounds to me that they have some software EQ and compressor or so running to compensate for their poor bass? Really strange, and I certainly prefer low bass on Linux than dynamical changing nonsense in Windows ;-) A bit sad that designers still get their headphone amp output "wrong". Should not be too hard to place the vendor suggested DAC glue into the schematic, ... ;-)
turns out there are two batteries - my graphical stat thing even showed them, but I did not actually notice the second - so that may bring battery life on Linux more into the 7h range ;-)
Yes the T470 has a permanently built in battery and a swappable one. You seem to have gotten only the small swappable battery, there is also a larger humpback version for this laptop. Curious how much time you can get out with normal use from the setup you have, it might allow for good projection on what the max setup would provide. :)
Piotr Esden-Tempski the *s apparently have two small built in one's, the unit had a warranty steal, will check if I'm allowed to open the loaner up ;-)
Regarding the audio, that is really a bummer that the headphone out is not very good. It is indeed surprising that they can not just put in a proper DAC circuit in there. :( I was conflating the T470s with the T470. The *s version is the only one with no secondary swappable battery which is really a bummer. But the T470, T470p and T570 all have secondary swappable batteries. As far as I understand because the laptops have one internal battery the swappable one is actually hot swappable.
Thanks, I guess it mostly depends whether you need to run macOS, or not. My previous DELL XPS13 video may also be helpful, with some comments and anecdotes along the line: th-cam.com/video/D3H8GrVm_XI/w-d-xo.html I, myself am currently migrating away from Apple products after 10+ years with them. Too slow update cycle, new OS more buggy and laggy, vendor lock-in, and I do not even like the new products anymore. Horrible keyboards, few ports, hot and scratch aluminum case, nothing much left upgrade or serviceable, etc. …
thank you for your videos. can we get detailed specifications for your t470s in the description in this and/or future videos specifically what resolution is that matte display?
I went over the detailed spec with commentary, hints and tips in my latest T470s video: th-cam.com/video/OTJOnIciui8/w-d-xo.html it is the FHD mate screen, however, as mentioned in the above video while the resolution would be enough for me the higher res screens are specified as brighter, which may actually be nice to have, …
What distro did you use to test the T470S with? Any reason you went T470S over T470? I received a DOA T470, I am waiting for a refund, and not sure what to get now. :/.
I usually prefer compact for travel, however, reviewing the T470s I think I need a quad core on-the-go for my software developer needs ;-) Guess I need a T470p for that, ... I use T2 SDE Linux (t2-project.org/), which we also use for embedded and server development.
2:10 I had the same observations. At work we use XPS 15 9550s, and the wifi is terrible. Dell Wireless 1830 nics are broadcom and suck. Badly. 493ms ping on average. It's bad. Macbook was better, but thinkpads are usually good since they use intel 8265 and 8260 nics.
Macs are also using Broadcom, and my 15" Retina MacBook actually has quite stelar wifi connectivity. Will probably see next week how the T470 copes in real life on the go.
I hate how the newer ThinkPads minus the P series have back mounted hinges and not top mounted like the xx30 and below generation. There are some ports that belong on the back, like power and ethernet. I hate Ethernet on the side. Also lack of ThinkLight is annoying and stupid.
thanks for the comment! Maybe the rumored Retro Thinkpad is you you then. For me having ethernet at all is a huge upgrade form the port-less MacBooks, sigh. I did not find the ports at the side that annoying, maybe USB-C could be more in the back in case one uses it to power the machine.
did not know about a screen lottery, but then even Apple sources Samsung and LG screens, ... Once I had a extremely image retaining LG that took Apple ages to get replaced, ... On the t470s the X server log says: [ 40.786] (II) intel(0): EDID vendor "AUO", prod id 9277 it is the Full HD 1080p screen that is quite ok - only noticed the screen could be brighter, Lenovo specifies 250 nits, while my rMBP SPEC has 300 nits, ... What else can be bad about them?
I think I mentioned in one of the T470s videos, that I tested everything except the smart card and finger print reader. I think I said somewhere, that they are not of personal interest for me, as everyone can copy fingerprints easily. This is why I rather prefer a strong password and full-disk-encryption. A password is way harder to steal from you than your fingerprints, ...
well, "nowadays" you usually run an OS with HiDPI scaling on it, e.g. 200% or 250%. So that text and images are super sharp. if you run XP or a vintage Unix on it the text and icons are indeed too small and would require an magnification glass, ...
Oh good, because yeah my x1c6 is coming tomorrow, and if it was package that way I would literally call back for a refund. I'm glad its a sample unit and that you didn't actually drop cash on that.
René R. I love it now that I have used it for a few days. My main job was to receive it and blow away windows and install Linux but the laptop was so beautiful I decided to just use it a few more days with windows. I got the FHD non touch screen and it's supprisingly vivid and bright. I also got the i5 w/ vpro, 16gb ram, and 256 hard drive and this laptop is super fast. The keyboard feels amazing as well I have never used a keyboard that has felt so excellent
as mentioned the XPS13 was loaned by Dell for T2 Linux testing and review and had to be sent back. I had the high res about 4k model, and the Ubuntu that came with the developer editoin worked as expected and shown shortly in the video. I even used very minimal and vanilla / unpatched source T2 on it without much trouble.
Let's hope you never get into any hardware trouble with Lenovo. DOA exchange takes weeks. If you have a support contract with next day on site support and they don't have the parts available then you have to wait for weeks too. Since those devices aren't IBM anymore, the quality and reliability of the service around Thinkpads is at an unacceptable level. As a matter of fact: If you buy one used, the service is ten times better than if you buy a new one. It's sad.
Of course it depends on your personal preferences, but in my opinion I would think so. For me the T470 family is even great for more demanding mobile developer machine, think web and application development, database and such. Of course it should be equally nice for school and university use.
RenéRebe Appreciate the reply. Upon further digging, I've found that this may be overkill for my needs. The x270 with student discount is at $870 with 4GB of upgradeable ram. I'm leaning towards that one for now.
Is there a problem with the arrow key? => blog.dhcgn.de/hardware/2017/04/20/Zwei-Wochen-mit-dem-Thinkpad-T470s.html He also talk about a screen issue..
I did not had problems with the arrow keys, nor such display issues. Maybe the display issues are Windows Intel GFX driver related, or he just had a bad Monday unit, ... I would only prefer slightly different Page up/down home/end button placement, e.g. with FN keys on the arrows keys or such. but that is just personal preference, …
The T470 is actually really nice! Still trying to figure out how well the X1 Carbons handle Linux or FreeBSD
I really liked your video - please keep them up; good to see GNU+Linux and Lenovo videos from a dev's point of view.
Great video..Can you tell me what kind of monitor was on your desk..I liked the little that I could see. And thank you for your professionalism in showin the T470. Im a die hard OSx user and am wanting a machine for Linux. Looked at System 76, X1 Carbon and was unsure of the thinkpad. You helped me better choose..might be the Thinkpad T470! Love the matte display and industrial look. Cheers
thats my trusty NEC MultiSync 24" rene.rebe.de/2010-04-20/the-perfect-display-color/ rene.rebe.de/2011-09-22/nec-multisync-pa241w-multiprofiler/ services.exactcode.de/amzn.cgi?index=electronics&keywords=nec%20multisync
Thanks for sharing about your NEC monitor...I love everything about it. Have a great day
I know the video is old, but do fingerprint and gestures work on Linux?
gestures usually work these days, fingerprint I never cared, maybe somehow, binary-only something. Patches welcome ;-)!
Great review. I wonder what are your usages like with linux and that particular distro. I currently only use linux for servers, and considering to expand the scope.
I use it for everything, email, web, software development, etc. From around 1998 to 2005 I used Linux for really everything, it was my only OS. Then I started to use macOS, too so it became my daily email, web, office, etc. OS; while still developing and maintaining t2sde.org. I do not really like the development of the latest macOS versions, and they are also becoming too buggy and with all the cloud integration one does not know where what is sent over the network anymore. So I'm currently migrating back to do all my daily main task on Linux. And only boot macOS and Windows VMs for the software development and testing of those. We obviously use #T2SDE on all our servers, with KVM virtualization and help customers with it, also for Embedded Linux development.
Thanks for the review. I am really waffling between the T470s and the X1 Carbon. The size and availability of ports is definitely a big plus for the T470s. I am curious what your battery run time results are on this machine under linux. Also let us know what issues even if minor you find, especially regarding the usage of external monitors/projectors under linux.
Hey Esden!
battery life is not yet that great, IIRC the estimate was something over 6 hours in Windows, and with generic, vanilla T2 SDE like trunk:HEAD I get an estimate of 3:45. Still need to play with some idle / cpufreq tuning to see what it can improve. I run the system form an external USB3 SSD, that may draw some power, too.
The speakers are obviously not HiFi, but I also noticed that the headphone out quality is not audiophile either. On Linux there is quite some low frequency bass missing, I even double checked with Windows - there it gets totally strange: While it has more bass on Widows I can clearly hear some volume limiting going up and down. So it sounds to me that they have some software EQ and compressor or so running to compensate for their poor bass? Really strange, and I certainly prefer low bass on Linux than dynamical changing nonsense in Windows ;-) A bit sad that designers still get their headphone amp output "wrong". Should not be too hard to place the vendor suggested DAC glue into the schematic, ... ;-)
turns out there are two batteries - my graphical stat thing even showed them, but I did not actually notice the second - so that may bring battery life on Linux more into the 7h range ;-)
Yes the T470 has a permanently built in battery and a swappable one. You seem to have gotten only the small swappable battery, there is also a larger humpback version for this laptop. Curious how much time you can get out with normal use from the setup you have, it might allow for good projection on what the max setup would provide. :)
Piotr Esden-Tempski the *s apparently have two small built in one's, the unit had a warranty steal, will check if I'm allowed to open the loaner up ;-)
Regarding the audio, that is really a bummer that the headphone out is not very good. It is indeed surprising that they can not just put in a proper DAC circuit in there. :(
I was conflating the T470s with the T470. The *s version is the only one with no secondary swappable battery which is really a bummer. But the T470, T470p and T570 all have secondary swappable batteries. As far as I understand because the laptops have one internal battery the swappable one is actually hot swappable.
Nice review, thanks! Would you go for this t470s or macbook 13?
Thanks, I guess it mostly depends whether you need to run macOS, or not. My previous DELL XPS13 video may also be helpful, with some comments and anecdotes along the line: th-cam.com/video/D3H8GrVm_XI/w-d-xo.html
I, myself am currently migrating away from Apple products after 10+ years with them. Too slow update cycle, new OS more buggy and laggy, vendor lock-in, and I do not even like the new products anymore. Horrible keyboards, few ports, hot and scratch aluminum case, nothing much left upgrade or serviceable, etc. …
thank you for your videos.
can we get detailed specifications for your t470s in the description in this and/or future videos specifically what resolution is that matte display?
I went over the detailed spec with commentary, hints and tips in my latest T470s video: th-cam.com/video/OTJOnIciui8/w-d-xo.html
it is the FHD mate screen, however, as mentioned in the above video while the resolution would be enough for me the higher res screens are specified as brighter, which may actually be nice to have, …
What distro did you use to test the T470S with? Any reason you went T470S over T470? I received a DOA T470, I am waiting for a refund, and not sure what to get now. :/.
I usually prefer compact for travel, however, reviewing the T470s I think I need a quad core on-the-go for my software developer needs ;-) Guess I need a T470p for that, ...
I use T2 SDE Linux (t2-project.org/), which we also use for embedded and server development.
2:10 I had the same observations. At work we use XPS 15 9550s, and the wifi is terrible. Dell Wireless 1830 nics are broadcom and suck. Badly. 493ms ping on average. It's bad. Macbook was better, but thinkpads are usually good since they use intel 8265 and 8260 nics.
Macs are also using Broadcom, and my 15" Retina MacBook actually has quite stelar wifi connectivity. Will probably see next week how the T470 copes in real life on the go.
I hate how the newer ThinkPads minus the P series have back mounted hinges and not top mounted like the xx30 and below generation. There are some ports that belong on the back, like power and ethernet. I hate Ethernet on the side. Also lack of ThinkLight is annoying and stupid.
thanks for the comment! Maybe the rumored Retro Thinkpad is you you then. For me having ethernet at all is a huge upgrade form the port-less MacBooks, sigh. I did not find the ports at the side that annoying, maybe USB-C could be more in the back in case one uses it to power the machine.
I talk about t470s. What about the screen lottery? do you have an AUO screen?
did not know about a screen lottery, but then even Apple sources Samsung and LG screens, ... Once I had a extremely image retaining LG that took Apple ages to get replaced, ...
On the t470s the X server log says:
[ 40.786] (II) intel(0): EDID vendor "AUO", prod id 9277
it is the Full HD 1080p screen that is quite ok - only noticed the screen could be brighter, Lenovo specifies 250 nits, while my rMBP SPEC has 300 nits, ...
What else can be bad about them?
Want to be surprised? Try using fingerprint reader under Linux ;)
I think I mentioned in one of the T470s videos, that I tested everything except the smart card and finger print reader. I think I said somewhere, that they are not of personal interest for me, as everyone can copy fingerprints easily. This is why I rather prefer a strong password and full-disk-encryption. A password is way harder to steal from you than your fingerprints, ...
what linux distro is that?
T2 SDE - t2-project.org
cleanly scripted build from vanilla sources - System Development Environment
Is the resolution WQHD not too big for reading text?
well, "nowadays" you usually run an OS with HiDPI scaling on it, e.g. 200% or 250%. So that text and images are super sharp. if you run XP or a vintage Unix on it the text and icons are indeed too small and would require an magnification glass, ...
If my X1C6 comes shipped like that I am going to be so upset.
you mean some box crumpling? this is a review sample unit that they sent already to a handful of people before me, ..!
Oh good, because yeah my x1c6 is coming tomorrow, and if it was package that way I would literally call back for a refund. I'm glad its a sample unit and that you didn't actually drop cash on that.
keep us updated how you like your x1c6!
René R. I love it now that I have used it for a few days. My main job was to receive it and blow away windows and install Linux but the laptop was so beautiful I decided to just use it a few more days with windows. I got the FHD non touch screen and it's supprisingly vivid and bright. I also got the i5 w/ vpro, 16gb ram, and 256 hard drive and this laptop is super fast. The keyboard feels amazing as well I have never used a keyboard that has felt so excellent
Ok. I use ubuntu 16.04. Is it fine with it?
Do you have wqhd?
as mentioned the XPS13 was loaned by Dell for T2 Linux testing and review and had to be sent back. I had the high res about 4k model, and the Ubuntu that came with the developer editoin worked as expected and shown shortly in the video. I even used very minimal and vanilla / unpatched source T2 on it without much trouble.
Can you tell me how do you do to know what is the screen reference?
I use ubuntu 16.04
What do you mean by reference? For what do you want to use it? th-cam.com/video/OTJOnIciui8/w-d-xo.html
Let's hope you never get into any hardware trouble with Lenovo. DOA exchange takes weeks. If you have a support contract with next day on site support and they don't have the parts available then you have to wait for weeks too. Since those devices aren't IBM anymore, the quality and reliability of the service around Thinkpads is at an unacceptable level.
As a matter of fact: If you buy one used, the service is ten times better than if you buy a new one.
It's sad.
Is this good for school for the next 3 years? Zero gaming and zero editing of any kind
Of course it depends on your personal preferences, but in my opinion I would think so. For me the T470 family is even great for more demanding mobile developer machine, think web and application development, database and such.
Of course it should be equally nice for school and university use.
RenéRebe Appreciate the reply. Upon further digging, I've found that this may be overkill for my needs. The x270 with student discount is at $870 with 4GB of upgradeable ram. I'm leaning towards that one for now.
Is there a problem with the arrow key?
=> blog.dhcgn.de/hardware/2017/04/20/Zwei-Wochen-mit-dem-Thinkpad-T470s.html
He also talk about a screen issue..
I did not had problems with the arrow keys, nor such display issues. Maybe the display issues are Windows Intel GFX driver related, or he just had a bad Monday unit, ...
I would only prefer slightly different Page up/down home/end button placement, e.g. with FN keys on the arrows keys or such. but that is just personal preference, …