False Conversions
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- False Conversions seems to be a topic of interest in the church. Some are concerned with the lack of faithfulness, others seem concerned with the lack of faith. There are groups whose sole purpose in life is to hunt down all the heretics in the world and assert their own superiority over them. Other groups don't care at all what you believe or how you live. If you say you are Christian they will give you the benefit of the doubt.
Trying to understand these matters can be difficult. It is not our job to determine who is saved and who is not. However, if someone is lost and they are convinced they are saved, shouldn't we know how to speak truth into that space? Do you have a hard time trying to figure out who is a real convert and who is not?
In this episode of remnant Radio, Evangelist Levi Luts will be with us. We are discussing unregenerate Christians, false conversions, and deceptive gospels that are leading people away from faith in Christ. This can be a divisive topic, but it does not need to be. Being able to identify "fake Christians" is not a means of painting a guilt target on their back. However, being able to discern who is not of the faith gives us a beautiful opportunity to speak gospel life into those spaces. This is going to be a great episode, hope you enjoy.
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RECOMMENDED READING
True and False Religion: John Owen
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Religious Affections: Johnathan Edwards
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Spiritual Refining: The Anatomy of True and False Conversion by Anthony Burgess
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Knowing the Heart: Jonathan Edwards on True and False Conversion
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Primer on Conversion
9Marks The Underestimated Doctrine of Conversion FREE EBOOK
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Biblical Training: Doctrine of Conversion
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Bible Study Tools: Doctrine of Conversion
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Sam Storms Blog: Jonathan Edwards & the Theology of Revival
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Legalism is not the same thing as having high standards 👌🏽love it
And a witty pithy is not the same as thing as wisdom.
Josh, your explanation of faith, repentance, and sanctification around the 19 minute mark may be the best I’ve ever heard. Thanks bro! Super helpful. You were spot on!
Amazing.
Lots of nuggets for me. Love to hear the brethren talk about the Lord and King Christ Jesus
God bless you all
Salvation has 3 parts... justification is the freedom from penalty of sin... It is by faith alone.... sanctification is freedom from the power of sin gradually discipleship and self-denial.... and glorification freedom from the presence of sin.... lordship salvation/Calvinisim calls me to doubt my salvation and the goodness of God..... people either front load or back load works... because they cannot believe it is a free gift.... I love you guys program... what was just my thoughts.. much love from Denver North Carolina
Jesus was very direct with what was required to follow Him. I was all out commitment. If you were not fully committed, He said you were not worthy to be His disciple.
The story about the dirty oven is probably the best way of explaining Christ's work I have heard, really struck a chord. Thanks for sharing that.
Steve Samson Thank you Steve. Glad you liked it.
This was awesome and the Pastor in the black jacket (Levi?) really touches my heart. His messages came across with such compassion and he’s taught me something to make myself more acceptable to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ tonight. Thank you.
He's straight up teaching legalism lol. I can't believe they never checked him
Brother in the beard on the left side speaks 100% exactly what I’ve been preaching… Thank you God for the confirmation
This is a great discussion. I do not want to be on either the legalistic side or the antinomian side. I will say that to me some who are always talking about legalism are basically dissing holiness. The Lord chastise us so that will be partakers of his holiness, Hebrews 12:11. When people ask me about this one of the things that I say is if a Christian falls into sin or is struggling with sin, there will be a desire to overcome if they are a true believer. To say that someone can make a profession of faith and then live for the next 20 or 30 years like nothing happened, I believe we have a biblical rate to question their profession. If two Corinthians 5:17 is true, and it is, there should be some fruit manifested. Of course it is the spirit of God working in us through the fruit of the spirit, Galatians 5:22, Philippians two, etc. Also there is a perseverance. To Peter 3:18 commands us to grow in the grace and then the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So yes, there are ups and downs, but if it is always down there is something wrong. Either that believer is very spiritually ill or not a believer at all. Another thing is, a lot of people confuse condemnation with strong rebuke and correction. God uses correction and even rebuke as a means to cause us to persevere and it is profitable for us. A lot of it will depend on the individuals attitude towards sin, but correction is used to keep us on the right track, two Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 12 verses 4:11, etc. One more thing is that if a true believer will not overcome, they could be taken home to be with the Lord, one Corinthians 11. This could possibly be so that they will not go so far as to deny Christ and a pasta size. This could be sort of like the man in one Corinthians five. We know from two Corinthians two that he was restored if this was the same man and Minnie believe that it was as do I. So either the Lord could decide to take that airing believer home, or you could have a one Corinthians five situation where he is turned over to the enemy to destroy his flesh in order that he might repent and not be lost. Either way you look at it, a Christian will not go on forever living after the flesh and repentantly. It is impossible, one John three: none.
We centered are life on something other then the creator....man slap me in my face good stuff.
His response to the question about a person with an addiction was disappointing. It was basically "if you heard the correct gospel and believed it, you would be free." That could keep someone in an endless loop of wondering if they hadn't really believed or hadn't really heard the true gospel.
Daniel Cartwright that’s not necessary what we all believe. I clarified by asking about the work of sanctification. None of us on the mic last week believed sanctification is instantaneous.
addiction might not be related to spiritual, but emotional, which is another issue that the church, generally speaking, is overlooking.
I hope you’ll continue exploring this topic! My own salvation story was dramatic and the change in me obvious (testimony on my channel.) In my witnessing, I meet a lot of false converts. I know we can’t truly gauge someone’s salvation, but I have pretty good discernment and a heart burdened for them. Where I get confused is this. If it is by faith and grace we are saved, even faith as small as a mustard seed, then where is it going wrong? These people claim to believe in Jesus. Many were born into Catholic and Christian families. I know God doesn’t crack everyone open in a dramatic way. Sometimes the Spirit works over a season. But has it just not been their time yet? Did they not surrender? Trying to say they need to do XYZ starts to fall into works. Usually if I probe a bit, I find out they have some strange beliefs mixed in like denominational errors, a little witchcraft, false Christ teachings, or unwillingness to give up a certain habitual sin. I need a how-to lesson on reaching these folks.
Watch Ray Comfort do street evangelism. His questions get people thinking and those that are not true converts get challenged. His has videos here on y t
You might consider having Matthew Bates on to discuss faith/pistis as embodied allegiance. He deals with a lot of the questions raised here in his latest book, "Gospel Allegiance: What Faith in Jesus Misses for Salvation in Christ."
FoxRunImages do you know him by chance?
Thanks for making this video. It helps clarify things. I never understood how people can think that antanomianism could be legitimate. It's so bizarre. I have a friend who doesnt call it by that name, but he whole heartedly embraces the ideology that the only sin is gene mixing of humans with the fallen. No other sins exist so its ok to do whatever else you want
No one calls themselves antinomian that I am aware of. Because antinomianism is condemned historically as heresy. So no one is going to call themselves a heretic LOL.
Nice discussion, I would like to hear more about the dangers of humanism
We will take this into consideration. Id love to grab John Piper or David Platt for a conversation on humanism. I think that would be Phenomenal.
@@TheRemnantRadio I was told it was a area I need to be careful of but i only understand the extremes of it. Regardless you guys are a blessing and I love the christ/word centered discussion.
Hallelujah! Amen!
The book of Romans, is a great book to show people how a Christ follower should live!
If you’re living in sin , you will perish, repent before it’s too late!
This is beside the point of the video, but these guys have to be right next to each other. I wish there was a shot of all three simultaneously.
I'm glad they're talking about this ! There definitely needs to be more teaching about conversion !
inverted halo with our old system we did have a wide angle. Go watch older videos from 4 weeks ago and we always had a fourth camera. If you wana donate $300 for a forth camera we would gladly upgrade lol.
@@TheRemnantRadio I'd like to find out more about true conversions, can you recommend any other resources ?
inverted halo we have tons of books in the video description
Am I the only one who feels this guy's idea of a proper gospel presentation is so nuanced that it's not going to be found in most real-life preaentations or even in the bible itself? I don't know a salvation sermon in scripture that articulates it the way this guy says it needa to be.
I also feel like it isn't really helpful in helping someone who is questioning their salvation. For example, if a person believes that they have trusted Christ both to forgive and to transform them, but aren't sure of there's been a real transformation in their life, it seems he would just say, "maybe you didn't really believe" or something like that, and then it just comes full circle to the question of "how do I REALLY believe?"
It's ambiguous for sure. I think the gospel in its nature is simple. Believe on the lord Jesus for salvation. If they struggle with sin after salvation i believe the wright way to fix them is simply tell them because of Jesus's sacrifice there a new creation and thus they simply need to remember who they are in christ. Simple all this ambitious chatter only confusess people. It doesn't have to.
Fast forward about twelve years, I actually get saved for real (repent sincerely to the LORD, and give all my thoughts and desires and actions to God and seek His will instead of my own); and so I am excited to refresh my friendship with the old roommate whose godliness seemed so significant - only to find that now, when texting (she’s now living out of the country), any mention of God is either not responded to or met with snarky comments. I shared my testimony of what I went through and how Jesus saved me, a sinner, from my pride (along with fornication, alcohol abuse, depression and suicidal thoughts). And I asked her not to let her bitterness and pride to keep her bound and away from God. The response was not pretty. So, now I only pray for her, which I know is effective.
But I wish I knew a good way, for future reference with others with that same mindset, to share the gospel with someone who seems openly hostile toward God.
I found the rest of your comment, lol. That’s the best you can do now, is pray for her. God only knows what is going on with her, but as believers in Christ Jesus we can intercede in prayer 🙏.
I love Steve Hill! Miss that guy.
Question: What is the best way to share the gospel with someone who once seemed to be a Christian, but now avoids any topic relating to God or if not avoiding, seems hostile toward discussing God and religion? Here is the back story: I grew up in church but was myself hostile toward God and was self-absorbed, living only for my self, my feeling, my wants regardless of how it affected others. In my twenties, I had a roommate who, to me, seemed to love God and live for God and was very involved in church. She was influential in my life in that I wanted to stop drinking as much and be more productive in my life. Fast forward.
I don’t know what happened after the “fast forward“ but it could be that your old roommate was either not a true convert, and, when difficulties came, it revealed their faith or lack of. Or, she did believe but maybe bad experiences with church/ other Christians made her hostile towards God, instead of seeing its the imperfections of people. Maybe she just got caught up and deceived by the anti-Christianity rhetoric going around for some years now. The biblical worldview vs cultural and secular worldview.
Ask if she considers herself a morally good person. Ex"Christians" I have talked to all believe they are morally good, and accuse God of evil and suffering. Yet, u notice they never point the finger at themselves and mankind for creating and contributing to the suffering all around. Compare her to the moral law, the 10 commandments, if she had lied, stolen, misuse God's name in vain, etc. Show her she is a sinner, and she needs a Saviour, cos she can't save herself if God were to judge her guilty and send her to hell for punishment. God can legally dismiss her case, not because she is good, but becos God is rich in mercy to save her if she puts her trust in Jesus alone and what He did for her.
Can you guys bring Bob Wilkins from Grace Evangelical Society on the show?
How about false diagnosis of false conversion?
Did y'all see War Room? I like what Ms. Clara says. She says nobody likes their coffee lukewarm!
Great session guys. In listening to your insights the one things as a God fearing, Holy Spirit filled, Jesus flowing man; well maybe more of a comment is being led by the Holy Ghost when sharing the Gospel. As the Spirit of truth gives utterance with each divine appointment we must be heart prepared and sensitive to His presence, right?
Samuel Anthony Salas if you are asking if we should live a lifestyle full of faith by walking in the Spirit. Than yes we should always walk on the Spirit.
When you say “heart prepared and be sensitive to Christ’s presence” do you have a scripture in mind that I could consider?
@@TheRemnantRadio yes I agree and hope that is more a part of your discussion in future sessions. God be with you
Have you guys ever had Mario Murillo on your show??
Also, I agree that our tone should be seasoned with salt and we should major on the goodness of God, but sometimes Holderness needs to be preached very strongly. I would say especially in 2021… I mean… The world is getting worse and worse and sometimes in order to cut through the nonsense you have to be very bold. In acts seven, Stephen was stoned because they didn’t like what he was saying and he wasn’t exactly trying to be diplomatic. Jude talks about having compassion on some and on others snatching out of the fire. So we really need both and I guess that’s why we need to be led of the spirit in our preaching/teaching as well. I neither want to be too diplomatic or too harsh, but honestly if I had to choose, I would rather be a little bit too harsh. I do not want those who are interested to my care not to make heaven because I was too afraid to hurt their feelings. I would rather hurt your feelings and make you so mad that you turned a crashed and change then to never make you mad and you end up going to hell. I understand that it is the work of God within us that causes us to live for Christ in sanctification, but God saves and sanctifies through preaching/teaching so it is important that we are both compassionate and bold. Sorry for the typos. I have no vision so I am dictating this post and it’s all Siri‘s fault. LOL
These things are written regarding your question about false conversions and true conversations:
I think a true conversion should be obvious. Paul says it is no longer I who lives, but Christ. If you are like Paul and you no longer live then your life should not look like it did before, you are not living. Paul said he died daily. The old you and fleshly living, is it a number one priority that those things are dying daily? If so, the change should be obvious, there is nothing left of what you used to be. Paul says the ONLY thing that counts is a new creation. If this is not happening, are you putting off the old you and on the new you daily? Again, if this is happening, it should be obvious. Paul says your mind should be transformed. Do you think different, act different, are your conversations different? Does your sin that you still have grieve you, do you hate it? Are you actively chopping your sin off? This should be serious and look like something. To live is Christ. Is this the reason you live? For whatever Christ wants or are you still living doing what you want? Does your life serve fleshly things or only things of the Spirit? Are your associations the same or is it hard for you to hang around people that are not pointing you to Christ? Basically, you should be a new creature, would you know it if one day you were a bird and the next day you were a dog? You would! You should be born again. Born all over again. Would you know it if you have been born again. Yes you would. You are not you anymore, you are someone different. And it should produce a changed person that no one can deny. You cannot deny that Paul's life changed. He was completely different and he didn't have to convince me by laying out a case, you just look at his life. It's a 180.
I believe that you really need to come to the end of yourself, you need to recognize it, and it deeply grieve your heart, repent, call on God and be committed to Him and Jesus and to whatever they bring your way. All in!
He whom the Son sets free is free indeed. Go and sin no more.....
Gal 2:20, 5:24
I liked some of the things yall said. Who are you guys? Do y'all have any personal blogs or sites?
What ism would you say that you guys personally lean towards?
Nevermind answering, I found you guys!
Melanie Anderson lol
Umm won’t find a lot of up to date stuff on the website lol. The tree of us are Christians, and all three of us are Protestant, Levi is an evangelist with the Assemblies of God so he is Pentecostal. Michael Roundtree is the pastor of a non denom church. And I (Josh Lewis) am a member of an Southern Baptist Church. 🤷♂️
Idk if that’s what you were looking for.
Melanie Anderson also Michael Roundtree does have a blog on wellspringDFW.org
$75.00 for Jonathan Edwards on Amazon? Honestly, fellas. You couldn't pay us $75 to read that.
I love Jesus with all my heart,but I still smoke cigs,so according to the church i cant b member or b in any ministry and im stuck. I have won people to the Lord isnt that what Jesus said to do.pray for me. I was into evrytng until i accepted Christ. Am i goin to hell?
paul, I’ll be praying for you I know this kind of thing can be difficult.
Let me ask you this. Do you believe you practice of smoking cigarettes is sinful?
Rev_12:17 So the dragon became enraged at the woman and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring-those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Yeshua.
Rev_14:12 Here is the perseverance of the kedoshim-those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua.
“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. ]
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”
1 John 2:1-6 KJV
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.”
1 John 3:23-24 KJV
So how do I know if I truly converted. I believe that Jesus Christ died for my sin and was resurrected 3 days later. I study my word to better understand him. I pray multiple times a day. I repent of my sins daily. But I came to Christ through the sinners prayer. I ask him to use me to glorify him daily and I try and live for him daily. Cause I know that I am a wretched sinner and with out him I am deserving of hell
Are you trusting in Christ alone or christ plus your works for salvation?
I know this was posted some while ago.. I just don't agree with Levi. It's a dangerous rabbit hole to follow..He started out well focusing upon the message.
The gospel isn't about the transformation of the person.. it's a story about Jesus and what he has objectively done. The gospel is promise..to be believed and acted upon.
I thought we with modern scholarship have moved away from this kind of introspective message.
Jordan B. Cooper has a good podcast talk on this calling it "preparationism"
Guy on the left sounds like a lordship salvation Augustinian gnostic
10:57 "He can't be savior until He's Lord" .... In his follow up he certainly seemed to be promoting Lordship Salvation. I'm reading _So Great Salvation_ by Charles Ryrie right now. It's a response to John MacArthur's book _The Gospel According to Jesus_ promoting Lordship Salvation. It's a great book. Lordship Salvation is a gospel of salvation by works. All that is required for salvation is a recognition that we can't save ourselves, and to trust in Jesus alone for salvation. Then we grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and bear fruit for the Kingdom. I'll take a carnal Christian over a self-righteous moralist any day because the carnal Christian knows they're messed up.
Can I ask what you mean by self righteous
Jew and Greek
The Bible teaches the ideas of “Lordship Salvation” all throughout the NT. It’s not works salvation. James teaches works are proof of faith and a person who only wants a savior and doesn’t want a God, a master, a Lord, etc. does not have right faith.
Progger_Frogger - which would thereby be justification and sanctification.
@@benjaminbutler3487 That would be a person like the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14 who looked down on the tax collector and other sinners while neglecting his own sin.
@@IAmisMaster The Bible teaches that saving faith produces good works, but that's not the same thing as Lordship Salvation. Lordship Salvation defines saving faith as complete obedience and surrender to the will of God, because "if He's not Lord of all He's not Lord AT all." So in effect if you struggle with sin or fail to grow in holiness, sanctification ... etc. you're not saved. You have to have godly sorrow in order to sufficiently repent, because less than godly sorrow doesn't get the job done. This line of thinking leads to what I call eternal insecurity, because we all mess up. Our righteousness has ZERO to do with us and everything to do with Jesus. Our sanctification on the other hand, has to do with us yielding to the Holy Spirit and surrendering our will to His. Any theology that bases our salvation on anything that we do is on shaky ground.
The Gospel of John is clear, simple believe
Believe = obedience!
@@jess1987 no Sir. Believe means believe. Obedience is a different word with different letters and meaning
@@djohnz8793 First I'm not a sir, I'm clearly a woman.
But, yes. Obviously in our dictionaries it's meaning is; to have confidence in something, someone...
But, in Greek, if you dig a little deeper into the Biblical meaning of 'believe.' It's true meaning is of obedience...
@@jess1987 in any language believe means believe. Just read scripture for what it says, theres no need to change words into some other word
@@djohnz8793 Always! But, we should also look further into Greek and Hebrew... To make sure it's correctly translated into the right English words. And I never said it 'doesn't' mean simply believing. Just saying of its more in-depth meaning.
Dude you know them by thier fruit. Yes we can tell if someone is living for Christ. The spirit within testifies .
Who else wants to know about the X-Men comic in the back??
Matthew Montoya What do you want to know about them?
@@TheRemnantRadio I absolutely loved the X-Men growing up comics cartoons . Lol I was them in the background and I was like hey there...
Listing to this pod cast has convinced me of my lack of true repentance and conversation. I was raised Catholic. But I was converted to Baptist then Pentecostal for the best part of my Christian walk. I have always struggled with issue as the next man and always questioned my salvation. What's wrong with ? I would ask in prayer. So this was for me to watch. I'm new to your channel but I really enjoyed this received it .
Matthew Montoya bro this was so encouraging. I’m glad the Lord is moving on your heart! Just know we are all in process. The prayer “God what’s wrong with me” is the prayer of Romans 7. A man so In love with Jesus hates any in working of sin in their lives. The fact that you hate practicing sin is one of many signs that God has made you alive in Christ.
@@TheRemnantRadio thank you brother looking at your stuff got some good stuff . I came across your channel by mistake see how God works. I'm gonna tell everyone I know about your channel.
Nice approach but without right division this will shipwreck peoples faith. Grace Ambassadors can help you and these teachers be correct. Learn context and right division.
Well...there is no surefire way to be saved. But how you know if your saved you will know being saved comes with the baptism of the holy spirit. There is nothing quite like it.
These guys literary have no understanding of scripture
Repentance doesnt mean turn from your sins, these guys are a joke
So when Jesus said ‘go and sin no more’ He didn’t mean it - it would’ve been ok for that person to continue in adultery?
Satan who Came out of Sonship into Free moral agency sold that to Eve and Adam. I have a right to my own viewpoint . In fact ,if cannot viewpoint I have no worth. I must be able to CHOOSE Jesus Came to restore my Power of choice not to do Gods will!.
To that add an ineffective message of the Cross,