Wow, this Episode changed my mind on prophecy. I grew up in a very cessationist and anti-charismatic church (I left it). I will start now to pray that God awakes the gift of prophecy in our local church.
I just want to say that I really appreciate your content. During this year God really opened my eyes to wanting to seek the truth because there are a lot of false teachings. I love and appreciate your videos a lot because you want to seek 100% spirit and 100% truth.
Paul wasn't told by the Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. He was just given a heads up on what awaited him. _And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’_ (Acts 21:11)
This is such a great dialogue. On par with the other conversation you guys had about healthy charismatic practices. ‘Mario’ Michael made a great point with the stories of God speaking to Jeremiah and Samuel, using them as clear examples that God does not always speak audibly and that sometimes, you just have open your ear and take a leap of faith. John Wimber said that he started believing in the gifts of the spirit when God told him to preach what the Word says, regardless of if he experienced it or not. Anyone who knows of Wimber, knows he healed and prophesied over many, but faith in God’s Word (whether it seemed rational or realistic) came first. I’m excited about the show on the gifts you guys are starting and the prophecy stream you’ve got coming up! You’re my favorite channel on TH-cam at the moment. One topic that might be interesting to address, is the application of our faith in politics. Should we get involved? How involved should we get? What’s the biblical precedent? Thanks for all that you guys do! God Bless!
Just wanted to Thank You guys! The Lord has used you in your podcasts to help bring clarity and perspective in this area! God bless you in this ministry!
I love everything about this. The content discussed is very helpful. I love the format and I love that everyone is respectful, not argumentative. It’s biblical. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
My pastor recently preached on prophets. He used a great analogy. He said something along the lines of. “ A prophet can only see two colours. Black and white. It’s either true or false. There is no in between grey with a prophets vision.”
Thank you for very helpful analysis and examples. I've been charismatic for nearly fifty years but am overall sceptical of the contemporary prophetic movement. But I can't deny the times when the Lord has given me words that turned out to be true.
I love Michael Roundtrees comment about some people look at the prophetic and warning a word from God like you have an astrology. Instead of reading the word.
Guys, I'm not even done with this episode and it's already a classic. Not just the great information on the topic but you guys got me rolling over here. You guys are exceptionally funny this time. Thanks as always!
I wish there would have been teaching like this 40 years ago. Back then we just accepted what was taught, even if we did not understand or agree. I love the way you handle each controversial subject without hostility or pride.
Yeah, I can agree with that. The younger people in Church were told that we were supposed to "submit" to the "more seasoned prophets" in the Church whether we believed what they said or not.......
Ya, I've heard Winger speak on this a number of times. His main problem with prophetic training is how places like Bethel are doing it...as Miller describes. The people in the NAR have definitely gone off the reservation where prophesy is concerned.
This is exactly how Irenaeus described the gnostics "teaching prophecy" to their cult followers, too, in Against Heresies. Old cults in new clothes. NAR is gnosticism in fancy dress.
Wow. I have never looked into the arguments of charismatics, and I have been binge watching your videos. I keep watching everything Sam Storms, and I become more and more convinced that cessationism could be wrong . I believe in the gifts, but like said in this video they are abused and not looked at right so I'm hesitant. Please help with any resources??
Oh man, once you start watching the remnant radio, you'll never be the same. These guys made me realize that it's ok to be a charismatic...or rather, a continuationist, who is still faithful to sound doctrine. Some great resources I recommend is the Mike Winger youtube channel as well as any books written by Sam Storms, Craig Keener, Michael Heiser (although, you may wanna wait on his content if you're new to the "strange" things in the word 😁). But I also like a lot of our Calvinist brothers writings such as RC Sproul and even John MacArthur. I find it best to even study from those that I don't necessarily agree with as it often helps me to clarify my own position and understanding on a subject. Blessings as you start to unpack these things😊
As New Testatment believers we have the gift of the Holy Spirit to live according to scripture. Therefore, the Word of God is sufficient, and when He's ready to pour out His Spirit there will be no second guessing. Modern day Christianity is based upon feel good experiences and not about sharing the gospel, which Christ Himself instructed us to do. Reading the Word of God is how we hear Christ's voice and anything else is creating room for deception. It's clear with the recent prophetic saga that our trust should be based upon nothing else but the inspired Word of God.
If the sons of the prophets were a school, I believe they were proven to be unsuccessful. In each instance, the Prophet had to raise up a Son from without the "school." It would seem that the students have a propensity to become more interested in the Works(miracles) of a prophet, than the Holy God of a Prophet, Himself.
bro could watch you guys all day! God bless your guys' ministry. This is exactly what the Lord wants unity within the body! Listening to different views and not letting them cause division! The bottom line is there is no clear cut, one size fits all, version of what the church should look like today word for word in the Bible! There are different interpretations and different views, but the most important thing is DO YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST? DO YOU BELIEVE HE IS THE SON OF GOD, CAME TO EARTH, DIED FOR OUR SINS AND TRANSGRESSIONS, AND WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, AND HAS CREATED A BRIDGE BETWEEN US AND GOD THAT WE DO NOT MERIT BY OUR OWN WORKS!??!! That is the most important part of the Gospel! Let's not allow the flesh or the king of this world (Satan) to cause division in the body of Christ! God bless you guys!
One of the tests that God gives towards prophets and prophecy is to see if what they say comes to pass, if not they are a false prophet. Amazing how wrong a majority of our so called prophets are wrong time after time and people keep following and supporting. End times states many false prophets will appear and guess what, it’s here.
Regarding training in the prophetic: According to Ephesians 4 prophets equip the saint. What would equipping look like from a prophet? Training is valid and important.
I've struggled with this topic myself, and hearing you all discuss it thoughtfully and Biblically is helpful. I am not "charismatic", but am definitely a continuationist. The big thing I learned from this is that I am free to trust God to lead me in learning from other brothers and sisters and in practicing the gifts of the Spirit, and if I believe the wrong thing or mess up, He will manage it. Other things I learned, too, about what Scripture seems to say about prophecy. Thank you! :)
In my old church everyone was prophesying like every sunday, especially in prayer meeting... we all speak in toungues for 1 to 2 hours and after that they all prophesy..... and because a lot of them are prophesying its hard to follow or remember all they said... and if you dont believe in the prophesy they will said you are quenching the Holy Spirit...
Great job guys! one of the things I would like to hear (hopefully in the upcoming 2020 review) is addressing the misuse of prophecy and the prophetic gifting recently especially with regards of politics in America. I feel like it has left a stain on the prophetic ministry.
Maybe God has allowed this to happen to separate the false from the true. So many Christians are willing to heed prophetic words and disregard The Word because it doesn't line up with "thus says the Lord today"
I love this. I have some personal experiences in "words of knowledge/wisdom". Also I've had dreams come true. It's hard for me to find ceasesationalism biblical.
Goid explanations gents. Prophecy is something that many are afraid to try for fear of messing up and being harshly branded a false prophet. It was Prophet Dick Mills who called out my family member for having that very fear. She was prayed over to stir up the gift in her, and then she felt free to operate in her gift PTL. Ministry training is useful for anyone to learn 5-fold ministry. Just a practical aspect of discipleship. Mature and experienced helping the new and inexperienced.
I somewhat agree with Michael about prophecy isn't something you can teach. But I do believe you covered it about one person asking another who who moves in the prophetic how they do it. How does he know the Lord is telling him this person this is that.
Regarding fruits. The term is used two ways: Gal 5 referring to character snd Matt 7 when Jesus is teaching about false prophets, their fruits are those who go to hell, so good fruits are fruits of salvation
I strongly believe in giving guidelines from the scripture in first Corinthians and governance from the scriptures. But actually teaching people how to I think is overstepping into the soulish realm. Definitely teaching people how to hear the Holy Spirit for themselves by teaching them to get in the word of God and quiet their souls and allow God to speak through his word first. The problem I’ve seen in the charismatic circles is that we are teaching people how to prophesy, but they don’t even know the basics of scripture and they are not demonstrating the fruit spirit. We should train people and focus on discipleship holistically. I believe to know that prophecy is not so much for the individual I believe as it is for the body per the scripture. There must be room for error, but that’s where governance in a church setting or small group setting is needed to help people learn to discern in the prophetic.
The supposed quote from John Owen appears not to be an actual quote of Owen, but what J. I. Packer wrote as being a summary of Owen's stance toward ongoing revelatory gifts. No one has ever, to my knowledge, actually found that or similar wording in Owen's actual writings.
Hi guys thanks for this video. Really enjoying it. I have an honest question: are there any biblical precedents for a prophetic word where the receiver needs to pray and partner with the Holy Spirit to make the prophecy come true? I used to believe this was a valid type of prophecy but the more I study scripture and pray through this topic the more I think this isn’t prophecy at all but something else. I also think it’s an opportunity for someone to claim to be a prophet and give out a bunch of words where the gift never has to carry the burden of proof - it leaves the burden with the receiver. Now I know some would say that this is a part of us co-laboring with the Lord but I feel that is a weak argument in that we don’t see this type of prophecy modeled in scripture. It also equivocates what the Lord has actually called us to with something that is inherently more selfish. Would really love your thoughts on this.
Great question. I don’t know if I’m ready to speak into this yet. I tend to agree with you, but have not yet read anything academic that would help me think that it is only my own Eisegesis
@@TheRemnantRadio it would be a fruitful discussion. I see a lot of the ‘big’ prophets are saying their words about the continuation of the Trump presidency were dependent on the church praying and voting which to me sounds like the equivalent of ‘you were not healed because you did not have enough faith’. Perhaps my position is too hard but that is how this looks and feels.
So here’s my thinking on these gifts. A lot of people tend to lump them all together. They’ll say things like leader ship, tongues, prophecy, teaching, etc. So the primary lists are in Romans 12, one Corinthians 12, and Ephesians 4. Obviously these are all super natural, but from what I can see, they are from different members of the Trinity. So in Romans 12, we have what I would consider the motivation gifts. These come from the father, verse three. We have a measure of faith to do whatever that particular gift is to fulfill our ministry. So Romans 12 could be the motivation gifts. Any fusions four, we have the five ministry gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. These clearly come from the sun, verses eight and 11. These are gifts of the Lord Jesus Christ. One Corinthians 12, you have the manifestation gifts, verses seven and 11. These clearly come from the spirit, verse seven. So from what I can see Romans 12 would be the motivational gifts, one Corinthians 12 would be the manifestation gifts, well Ephesians 4 would be the ministry gifts.
In the video they discuss the vision given to Peter in Acts 10. And they discuss saying that the Spirit gave Peter a Jew, a view of the scriptures previously unknown. That's cool. But what if someone, say a progressive Christian, gets a revelation or a prophecy that something we've always thought as wrong such as homosexual sins or spiritualsing the resurrection, how can we refute them if they use your technique? How can we say no to them if God has shown them a new way of looking at those previous scriptures just like Peter showed his new way of looking at OT diet laws? Thanks guys, I loved this production otherwise, well done.
So good! Interesting that our ultra conservative both politically and theologically think they are outside and above the human influence of culture. Both liberal and conservative are heavily influenced by culture and instead of creating systems to fit our culture we should read the Text within its culture and its original intent. I say this specifically referring to what is said in this video about prophecy. Very interesting that prophecy in the global South is seen as normal and here in US is seen as a "problem"
John 10:27-8 is a salvation verse..." 27 My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." NASB. Jesus is referring to hearing to and responding to the gospel and receiving eternal life on the back of that hearing and response.
Michael, respectfully brother, could you please explain why you have done events with Benny Hinn, Randy Clark, Rodney Howard Browne etc? Do you consider them and their hyper charismatic doctrines to be of God? Thanks in advance.
This was the first time I've heard Jer.32 used to support training in prophecy...(Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD) I think the argument is weak. Remember, we are reading an Anglo translation with lots of words stuffed in. In addition, the context of the chapter is Jeremiah, a prophet 38 ch. into his book of propecy, is laying out evidence and witnesses in a specific indictment of the people. This is followed by a transition to promises regarding the land. Concerning Samuel. No, he is not being train in prophecy. -Eli is a Priest, not prophet. -The Word of the Lord was rare or precious, and vision non-existant. -Eli couldn't hear from God, because God was mad and therefore sent Samuel to pronounce a future killing spree.
Good job, gentlemen. Let all prophecy be confirmed by 2 or 3 witnesses. The Holy Spirit is in, with, and upon us. Sometimes resident, sometimes always resident, sometimes like the wind, sometimes a breeze, and sometimes a tornado.
Which is why we “test the spirits” in regards to prophecy. If it does not line up with Scripture then we can disregard it. The only final authority of which we base all things is Scripture but that does not mean cessation of the gifts.
@@mattbaldwin247 did you ever read James epistle? The gift of miracle was no more in the Jerusalem church and only the prayer OF FAITH was the indication for healing so cessationism are not as wrong as you claim !!!! But prayer IS SUPERIOR TO ALL THE GIFT in prayer we have an entry to God benedictions in the celestial realm for all is children so what we need or what the others need we can pray for it with faith.
What God said to Peter in Acts 10 was calling on him to be more precise in his application of the law as GOD gave it, not careless equivocation of terms and/or of man's additions and God's law. Because "common" and "unclean" are distinct legal terms and they're similar but not interchangeable; both are used in this exchange.
Hiya and thanks for sharing. Gods word and truth heals do not forget most need spiritual healing of the mind as most have been programmed to believe false teachings of church. The elect will have all the gifts combined they will be multilingual, teachers, health professionals, writers who are sinners not part of mainstream religion, the gifts are found in men who are spiritual virgins meaning they are not contaminated by teachings of Babylon the Great. As the holy-spirit is poured out in the last days, the father sends his holy-spirit to awaken and anoint the chosen for sacred service in the tribulation years. Romans 12 and galatians 5,22,23 these gifts and fruit will be evident the remnants of the chosen priesthood 1 peter 2:9 our Lord is calling sinners to repentance not righteous ones / believers
We are not in the old testament quit using Old Testament examples. When are you guys just said he went through all of the book of acts . Underlining all the passages that talk about hearing the voice of God. Let's hear some of those
This comment is a day later but here's a thought i think we alway's remember the gift of phrophecy in the church and the office of the prophet are very differant we can't talk about them interchangably the gift prophecy in the body ministry is not expected to be alway's as accurate as the office of the prophet
Is there a reason no one brings up "Testing the Spirit" when receiving a message from God? "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." ~ 1 John 4:2-3 When deciphering God's will from the Enemy's Practice makes perfect (Testing the Spirit) "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will" ~ Romans 12:2 "But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." ~ Hebrews 5:14 Spirit of God lives in us ==> Therefore we can know the thoughts of God ==> Therefore God can communicate his intent to us? ~ 1 Corinthians 2:10-15 Prophesy, no Prophesy, who cares he all have direct access to the thoughts of God and through practice can discern his will for us at all times.
The biggest misconception about modern prophecy is that God is suddenly unable to make himself heard to true prophets and so some inaccuracy is now to be expected. Inaccurate prophets are false prophets--deceived goats at best, or deceiving wolves. They must be ejected from any true church of God until they come in broken repentance for their massive sins.
And I say this as someone who has had a supernatural answer from God. One of my children went missing. As I was on the phone with the police, praying silently, the Holy Spirit sent the absolute conviction into my mind where she was and where to send the search team and helicopter. It was a very different place than I'd thought and where we had been looking. This revelation was correct. She was found there, and brought back safe. God does speak. But God doesn't stutter. I didn't need practice hearing him. I didn't need to be quiet in my spirit. I can assure you I was anything but. And God is never wrong.
I absolutely love that testimony. I do respectively disagree with the statement that we don’t need practice. I’d refer to a lot of the arguments we made in the episode and also include that the scriptures themselves say that we are to weigh what was said. Why weigh it if it is absolutely spot on, always? God doesn’t stutter, I agree. It’s our ability to understand what he is saying that is flawed. Same is true with reading and understanding scripture. We grow and practice. God is never wrong but our ability to rightly interpret the scriptures are fallible.
He you want to scripture on how to grow in the gifts of the spirit period using them it's pretty clear that the Corinthian church were acting like cardinal baby Christians. Reach chapter 3 of Corinthians
I would love to read prophecies on websites instead of listening to longwinded, extremely boring, vague, unverifiable, useless monologues. Thankfully, TH-cam shows the time duration on each video icon.
You guys are being too tame. )) If you have a follow up I'd suggest you debate the disagreement (on authority) between Wayne Grudem and Gordon Fee, perhaps Craig Keener adopted Fee's view.
What if the Gift of Prophecy still means that your life becomes a working demonstration of the heart of God, in as much as He shares His heart with you, namely His sorrow, or cup of suffering. I believe we are yet mistaken, to so far divorce the Spirit of Prophecy from scripture. New Testament prophecy is not a new phenomenon...
Again there's no such thing as Occasional gift. Read the text in chapter 12 of Corinthians it says at the end of listing the gifts as the spirit gives utterance. A person doesn't have a gift of the spirit the gift of the spirit is like a clump of grapes. That can be used as the spirit again moves on a person to do so. Much of the problem the charismatic movement is that many people think they have a gift and they're not listening to God is the whether God wants to heal that person or not
This example of a prophetic smell is ridiculous. You can learn to be sensitive to the moving of the Holy Spirit that is what prophetic conferences seminars whatever you wanna call him should be doing. The last time I had a word for somebody I was going through the drive-through McDonald's And when I got to pick up Window the Lord tell that person I love them. And I told her I don't do this normally but I just feel like God wants you to know that Jesus loves you. That's being obedient to The spirit of God. He had nothing to do with the fact that I was going through the drive-through . One thing I do disagree with some groups want to teach it you can prophesy at will.
I don’t think everything you’re describing is prophecy but rather a word of knowledge. I think probably most of what people think and teach as the gift of prophecy is actually a word of knowledge. Isn’t it important to learn and teach the difference between the gifts and not mix them up? How was saying hi to that youth pastor prophecy?
There's a question you're talking about whether A vision like Peter had is scripture or not. That you cannot interpret that from scripture. I say yes you can. Because where does it say in scripture that Jews and gentiles are not allowed to eat a meal together. I can show you in scripture like in Genesis 15 or Paul refers to it in Galatians about the promise the guy gave to Abraham and into his seed that his seed Jesus would bless all the nations of the world not just the Jews.
in my humbled opinion, the only misconception about being a prophet at all, is that all prophects are called of God. and even if God did call you to be His prophet, you would not want the job or the great suffering you would have to endure in speaking exclusively for God as 50% of a prophet's work is rebuke. there are no prophets for the church for prophecy is special instructions for a physical people, Israel, returning to a physical land. before the New Testament was completed, God spoke a word of knowledge to certains ones in the congregation but they were no more prophets than a chevy could be a rolls royce. But as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:8 .....whether there be prophecies, they shall fail..." as did all of the other gifts cease after the New Testament was completed. from now on everything the church needs to know, has already been revealed by the epistles. So then what was the instructions for the church in these last days. "Wait for your Lord from heaven" that is why we say, that the church are "the coming ones", and in the lost tribes of the house of Israel are "the going ones" as they shall return unto the Mighty God of Jabob during the Great Tribulation as they stumble and weep going back to the land of your forefather in Israel..
Like to know from each of these three guys here have they ever prophesied? Gave a message in tongues pray for someone to be healed and they were healed because God told them to pray for somebody. Period do you have the prayer language as Paul mentions in first Corinthians 14.? The reason I ask, It's because if you have an operated and been used of the Holy Spirit in any of these ways. Then you need to be quiet because she don't know what you're talking about
Yes I do see that you do believe in the continuation of the gifts. But you didn't answer my question have you ever prophesied do you pray in tongues. When I looked up your churches that you pastor there's kind of a vague reference to the gifts of the spirit. Why can't you just be clear and say you believe in a separate experience of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. I know you guys have come from cessionism. And it seems that some of those teachings are still somewhat coloring your viewpoints.
Interesting conversation and very informative. I my self have dreams. Dreamt of my wife, kids, Jobs Places and people years before it came to be. I like how Miller dislikes what the charismatic movement has become and as they have and are using God for their evil desires, Just like the witch proclaiming to the town the two apostilles are men of God to make herself look more legit, so has the charismatic movement used and uses the elect ones with gifts that they have deceived, use them to try show others they are legit. BAZINGA Prophecy doesn't make Scripture insufficient as you stated correctly. No where where in scripture does it say there will be a man named Paul and that Jesus will blind him and call on another called Ananias to go and say he will be a man of God and do great things and so on and so forth. Yet many take it for granted. The Bible is For me and y'all but its not about me or y'all. Most of the new testament are letters and many times we see Paul say as I have taught you. Many times he never goes into further details on these teachings and what and how he taught these individuals or groups on that certain subject and on others he does. If you want scripture to be the be all end all cessationists, then how do you wrestle with this verse? Acts 2 17“ ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. 18Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. 19I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’ ? Have the last days come and gone or are they on the way? Have a good day all and thanks for the video RR
The last days started with Jesus’ ascension into the clouds and ends with His return the same way. Therefore, the Church has always been in the “last days” and God pouring out His Spirit upon the earth is each one of us being filled with the Holy Spirit at salvation.
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Wow, this Episode changed my mind on prophecy. I grew up in a very cessationist and anti-charismatic church (I left it). I will start now to pray that God awakes the gift of prophecy in our local church.
I just want to say that I really appreciate your content. During this year God really opened my eyes to wanting to seek the truth because there are a lot of false teachings. I love and appreciate your videos a lot because you want to seek 100% spirit and 100% truth.
Paul wasn't told by the Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. He was just given a heads up on what awaited him.
_And coming to us, he took Paul's belt and bound his own feet and hands and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘This is how the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’_ (Acts 21:11)
Acts 21:4
You guys are a blessing and these discussions help make our faith real.
This is such a great dialogue. On par with the other conversation you guys had about healthy charismatic practices. ‘Mario’ Michael made a great point with the stories of God speaking to Jeremiah and Samuel, using them as clear examples that God does not always speak audibly and that sometimes, you just have open your ear and take a leap of faith.
John Wimber said that he started believing in the gifts of the spirit when God told him to preach what the Word says, regardless of if he experienced it or not. Anyone who knows of Wimber, knows he healed and prophesied over many, but faith in God’s Word (whether it seemed rational or realistic) came first.
I’m excited about the show on the gifts you guys are starting and the prophecy stream you’ve got coming up! You’re my favorite channel on TH-cam at the moment. One topic that might be interesting to address, is the application of our faith in politics. Should we get involved? How involved should we get? What’s the biblical precedent?
Thanks for all that you guys do! God Bless!
Just wanted to Thank You guys! The Lord has used you in your podcasts to help bring clarity and perspective in this area! God bless you in this ministry!
I just commented the same thing! 😅 This happened to show up in my feed as well even though it’s a couple years old. So thankful for them 🙏
I love everything about this. The content discussed is very helpful. I love the format and I love that everyone is respectful, not argumentative. It’s biblical. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
My pastor recently preached on prophets. He used a great analogy. He said something along the lines of. “ A prophet can only see two colours. Black and white. It’s either true or false. There is no in between grey with a prophets vision.”
Well said.
And it has to Aline to the WORD of God
My favorite podcast to listen to while I work!
Thanks guys!
Thank you for very helpful analysis and examples. I've been charismatic for nearly fifty years but am overall sceptical of the contemporary prophetic movement. But I can't deny the times when the Lord has given me words that turned out to be true.
Just wanted to say, I am soooo thankful for you guys and your ministry to the Body!! Such an important work you’re doing. God bless you!
"Prophecy is NOT infallible." This is Remnant Radio's position. For everyone who is in doubt about what they believe, this is it.
I love Michael Roundtrees comment about some people look at the prophetic and warning a word from God like you have an astrology. Instead of reading the word.
Guys, I'm not even done with this episode and it's already a classic. Not just the great information on the topic but you guys got me rolling over here. You guys are exceptionally funny this time. Thanks as always!
I wish there would have been teaching like this 40 years ago. Back then we just accepted what was taught, even if we did not understand or agree. I love the way you handle each controversial subject without hostility or pride.
Yeah, I can agree with that. The younger people in Church were told that we were supposed to "submit" to the "more seasoned prophets" in the Church whether we believed what they said or not.......
Ya, I've heard Winger speak on this a number of times. His main problem with prophetic training is how places like Bethel are doing it...as Miller describes. The people in the NAR have definitely gone off the reservation where prophesy is concerned.
Agreed, I probably should have stated that when I brought it up.
This is exactly how Irenaeus described the gnostics "teaching prophecy" to their cult followers, too, in Against Heresies. Old cults in new clothes. NAR is gnosticism in fancy dress.
I enjoy these good healthy discussions. Great material.
Wow. I have never looked into the arguments of charismatics, and I have been binge watching your videos. I keep watching everything Sam Storms, and I become more and more convinced that cessationism could be wrong . I believe in the gifts, but like said in this video they are abused and not looked at right so I'm hesitant. Please help with any resources??
Oh man, once you start watching the remnant radio, you'll never be the same. These guys made me realize that it's ok to be a charismatic...or rather, a continuationist, who is still faithful to sound doctrine. Some great resources I recommend is the Mike Winger youtube channel as well as any books written by Sam Storms, Craig Keener, Michael Heiser (although, you may wanna wait on his content if you're new to the "strange" things in the word 😁). But I also like a lot of our Calvinist brothers writings such as RC Sproul and even John MacArthur. I find it best to even study from those that I don't necessarily agree with as it often helps me to clarify my own position and understanding on a subject.
Blessings as you start to unpack these things😊
As New Testatment believers we have the gift of the Holy Spirit to live according to scripture. Therefore, the Word of God is sufficient, and when He's ready to pour out His Spirit there will be no second guessing. Modern day Christianity is based upon feel good experiences and not about sharing the gospel, which Christ Himself instructed us to do. Reading the Word of God is how we hear Christ's voice and anything else is creating room for deception. It's clear with the recent prophetic saga that our trust should be based upon nothing else but the inspired Word of God.
Amen
If the sons of the prophets were a school, I believe they were proven to be unsuccessful. In each instance, the Prophet had to raise up a Son from without the "school."
It would seem that the students have a propensity to become more interested in the Works(miracles) of a prophet, than the Holy God of a Prophet, Himself.
Thank you for this much needed conversation!
Really enjoyed listening to this very helpful
Deut 13 is important. A prophecy can come to pass, but the prophet is false if people are led into false doctrine.
Well said!
this is so goooooooood thanks guys for blessing us!!!!
bro could watch you guys all day! God bless your guys' ministry. This is exactly what the Lord wants unity within the body! Listening to different views and not letting them cause division! The bottom line is there is no clear cut, one size fits all, version of what the church should look like today word for word in the Bible! There are different interpretations and different views, but the most important thing is DO YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST? DO YOU BELIEVE HE IS THE SON OF GOD, CAME TO EARTH, DIED FOR OUR SINS AND TRANSGRESSIONS, AND WAS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, AND HAS CREATED A BRIDGE BETWEEN US AND GOD THAT WE DO NOT MERIT BY OUR OWN WORKS!??!! That is the most important part of the Gospel! Let's not allow the flesh or the king of this world (Satan) to cause division in the body of Christ! God bless you guys!
Great conversation and love the content.
This is area I need to flesh out and wrestle with. Ive just bought Sam Storms book on spiritual gifts.
If you give at the $200 mark on their Patreon, you can feed Josh's kids, AND stay as a guest on his house for the days and two nights!
I am glad that you guys remembered the school of the prophets
One of the tests that God gives towards prophets and prophecy is to see if what they say comes to pass, if not they are a false prophet. Amazing how wrong a majority of our so called prophets are wrong time after time and people keep following and supporting. End times states many false prophets will appear and guess what, it’s here.
Regarding training in the prophetic: According to Ephesians 4 prophets equip the saint. What would equipping look like from a prophet? Training is valid and important.
I've struggled with this topic myself, and hearing you all discuss it thoughtfully and Biblically is helpful. I am not "charismatic", but am definitely a continuationist.
The big thing I learned from this is that I am free to trust God to lead me in learning from other brothers and sisters and in practicing the gifts of the Spirit, and if I believe the wrong thing or mess up, He will manage it.
Other things I learned, too, about what Scripture seems to say about prophecy. Thank you! :)
What is a polite way to tell a "prophet" that what they said in general or about you specifically was wrong??
In my old church everyone was prophesying like every sunday, especially in prayer meeting... we all speak in toungues for 1 to 2 hours and after that they all prophesy..... and because a lot of them are prophesying its hard to follow or remember all they said... and if you dont believe in the prophesy they will said you are quenching the Holy Spirit...
That’s sad. No order and it sounds like it wasn’t doing any good for the body.
That sounds familiar
Great job guys! one of the things I would like to hear (hopefully in the upcoming 2020 review) is addressing the misuse of prophecy and the prophetic gifting recently especially with regards of politics in America. I feel like it has left a stain on the prophetic ministry.
Maybe God has allowed this to happen to separate the false from the true. So many Christians are willing to heed prophetic words and disregard The Word because it doesn't line up with "thus says the Lord today"
I love this. I have some personal experiences in "words of knowledge/wisdom". Also I've had dreams come true. It's hard for me to find ceasesationalism biblical.
Goid explanations gents. Prophecy is something that many are afraid to try for fear of messing up and being harshly branded a false prophet.
It was Prophet Dick Mills who called out my family member for having that very fear. She was prayed over to stir up the gift in her, and then she felt free to operate in her gift PTL.
Ministry training is useful for anyone to learn 5-fold ministry.
Just a practical aspect of discipleship. Mature and experienced helping the new and inexperienced.
I somewhat agree with Michael about prophecy isn't something you can teach. But I do believe you covered it about one person asking another who who moves in the prophetic how they do it. How does he know the Lord is telling him this person this is that.
When people ask me what religion I am, I say "Christian" rather than Pentecostal/Charismatic, in order not to embarass myself......
Michael Miller on fire
Regarding fruits. The term is used two ways: Gal 5 referring to character snd Matt 7 when Jesus is teaching about false prophets, their fruits are those who go to hell, so good fruits are fruits of salvation
I strongly believe in giving guidelines from the scripture in first Corinthians and governance from the scriptures. But actually teaching people how to I think is overstepping into the soulish realm. Definitely teaching people how to hear the Holy Spirit for themselves by teaching them to get in the word of God and quiet their souls and allow God to speak through his word first. The problem I’ve seen in the charismatic circles is that we are teaching people how to prophesy, but they don’t even know the basics of scripture and they are not demonstrating the fruit spirit. We should train people and focus on discipleship holistically. I believe to know that prophecy is not so much for the individual I believe as it is for the body per the scripture. There must be room for error, but that’s where governance in a church setting or small group setting is needed to help people learn to discern in the prophetic.
Thank you Josh !
The supposed quote from John Owen appears not to be an actual quote of Owen, but what J. I. Packer wrote as being a summary of Owen's stance toward ongoing revelatory gifts. No one has ever, to my knowledge, actually found that or similar wording in Owen's actual writings.
He's got the Michael Brown mustache going.
Yes! Gifts of the Spirit!?! I am so there!
Hi guys thanks for this video. Really enjoying it. I have an honest question: are there any biblical precedents for a prophetic word where the receiver needs to pray and partner with the Holy Spirit to make the prophecy come true? I used to believe this was a valid type of prophecy but the more I study scripture and pray through this topic the more I think this isn’t prophecy at all but something else. I also think it’s an opportunity for someone to claim to be a prophet and give out a bunch of words where the gift never has to carry the burden of proof - it leaves the burden with the receiver. Now I know some would say that this is a part of us co-laboring with the Lord but I feel that is a weak argument in that we don’t see this type of prophecy modeled in scripture. It also equivocates what the Lord has actually called us to with something that is inherently more selfish. Would really love your thoughts on this.
Great question. I don’t know if I’m ready to speak into this yet. I tend to agree with you, but have not yet read anything academic that would help me think that it is only my own Eisegesis
@@TheRemnantRadio it would be a fruitful discussion. I see a lot of the ‘big’ prophets are saying their words about the continuation of the Trump presidency were dependent on the church praying and voting which to me sounds like the equivalent of ‘you were not healed because you did not have enough faith’. Perhaps my position is too hard but that is how this looks and feels.
So here’s my thinking on these gifts. A lot of people tend to lump them all together. They’ll say things like leader ship, tongues, prophecy, teaching, etc. So the primary lists are in Romans 12, one Corinthians 12, and Ephesians 4. Obviously these are all super natural, but from what I can see, they are from different members of the Trinity. So in Romans 12, we have what I would consider the motivation gifts. These come from the father, verse three. We have a measure of faith to do whatever that particular gift is to fulfill our ministry. So Romans 12 could be the motivation gifts. Any fusions four, we have the five ministry gifts of apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. These clearly come from the sun, verses eight and 11. These are gifts of the Lord Jesus Christ. One Corinthians 12, you have the manifestation gifts, verses seven and 11. These clearly come from the spirit, verse seven. So from what I can see Romans 12 would be the motivational gifts, one Corinthians 12 would be the manifestation gifts, well Ephesians 4 would be the ministry gifts.
In the video they discuss the vision given to Peter in Acts 10. And they discuss saying that the Spirit gave Peter a Jew, a view of the scriptures previously unknown. That's cool. But what if someone, say a progressive Christian, gets a revelation or a prophecy that something we've always thought as wrong such as homosexual sins or spiritualsing the resurrection, how can we refute them if they use your technique? How can we say no to them if God has shown them a new way of looking at those previous scriptures just like Peter showed his new way of looking at OT diet laws? Thanks guys, I loved this production otherwise, well done.
You guys should do a show with Chris Rosebrough.
So good! Interesting that our ultra conservative both politically and theologically think they are outside and above the human influence of culture. Both liberal and conservative are heavily influenced by culture and instead of creating systems to fit our culture we should read the Text within its culture and its original intent. I say this specifically referring to what is said in this video about prophecy. Very interesting that prophecy in the global South is seen as normal and here in US is seen as a "problem"
John 10:27-8 is a salvation verse..." 27 My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand." NASB. Jesus is referring to hearing to and responding to the gospel and receiving eternal life on the back of that hearing and response.
What you guys are gonna have Joel richardson?? That’s dope. I find his teachings really interesting and compelling
Good job, guys.
Is there any way (outside of and alongside) the Bible, that I can understand and read about The School of the Prophets??
Michael, respectfully brother, could you please explain why you have done events with Benny Hinn, Randy Clark, Rodney Howard Browne etc? Do you consider them and their hyper charismatic doctrines to be of God? Thanks in advance.
Review the prophesies on Marcus Rogers.
They are looking into a ton of the prophecies from the year on they new years special. I would imagine he'll come up :)
This was the first time I've heard Jer.32 used to support training in prophecy...(Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD)
I think the argument is weak. Remember, we are reading an Anglo translation with lots of words stuffed in. In addition, the context of the chapter is Jeremiah, a prophet 38 ch. into his book of propecy, is laying out evidence and witnesses in a specific indictment of the people. This is followed by a transition to promises regarding the land.
Concerning Samuel. No, he is not being train in prophecy.
-Eli is a Priest, not prophet.
-The Word of the Lord was rare or precious, and vision non-existant.
-Eli couldn't hear from God, because God was mad and therefore sent Samuel to pronounce a future killing spree.
Well done
Good job, gentlemen. Let all prophecy be confirmed by 2 or 3 witnesses. The Holy Spirit is in, with, and upon us. Sometimes resident, sometimes always resident, sometimes like the wind, sometimes a breeze, and sometimes a tornado.
If I wanna hear God voice I OPEN MY BIBLE.
Which is why we “test the spirits” in regards to prophecy. If it does not line up with Scripture then we can disregard it. The only final authority of which we base all things is Scripture but that does not mean cessation of the gifts.
@@mattbaldwin247 did you ever read James epistle? The gift of miracle was no more in the Jerusalem church and only the prayer OF FAITH was the indication for healing so cessationism are not as wrong as you claim !!!! But prayer IS SUPERIOR TO ALL THE GIFT in prayer we have an entry to God benedictions in the celestial realm for all is children so what we need or what the others need we can pray for it with faith.
Sometimes I think "modern prophesy" is little more than grand standing and wishful thinking.......
What God said to Peter in Acts 10 was calling on him to be more precise in his application of the law as GOD gave it, not careless equivocation of terms and/or of man's additions and God's law.
Because "common" and "unclean" are distinct legal terms and they're similar but not interchangeable; both are used in this exchange.
So a question for everyone… What gift of the spirit do you think casting out demons would be? Just curious to hear your thoughts.
Hiya and thanks for sharing. Gods word and truth heals do not forget most need spiritual healing of the mind as most have been programmed to believe false teachings of church. The elect will have all the gifts combined they will be multilingual, teachers, health professionals, writers who are sinners not part of mainstream religion, the gifts are found in men who are spiritual virgins meaning they are not contaminated by teachings of Babylon the Great. As the holy-spirit is poured out in the last days, the father sends his holy-spirit to awaken and anoint the chosen for sacred service in the tribulation years. Romans 12 and galatians 5,22,23 these gifts and fruit will be evident the remnants of the chosen priesthood 1 peter 2:9 our Lord is calling sinners to repentance not righteous ones / believers
So you teach to guys as well?
We are not in the old testament quit using Old Testament examples. When are you guys just said he went through all of the book of acts . Underlining all the passages that talk about hearing the voice of God. Let's hear some of those
Honestly confused how y’all don’t have more subscribers..
Thanks Jordan.
This comment is a day later but here's a thought i think we alway's remember the gift of phrophecy in the church and the office of the prophet are very differant we can't talk about them interchangably the gift prophecy in the body ministry is not expected to be alway's as accurate as the office of the prophet
Is there a reason no one brings up "Testing the Spirit" when receiving a message from God?
"This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." ~ 1 John 4:2-3
When deciphering God's will from the Enemy's Practice makes perfect (Testing the Spirit)
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will" ~ Romans 12:2
"But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil." ~ Hebrews 5:14
Spirit of God lives in us ==> Therefore we can know the thoughts of God ==> Therefore God can communicate his intent to us? ~ 1 Corinthians 2:10-15
Prophesy, no Prophesy, who cares he all have direct access to the thoughts of God and through practice can discern his will for us at all times.
I gotta tell you, my first impression of Miller was "STACHE"
Oh and would you guys say OT prophecy is different from NT prophecy?
The biggest misconception about modern prophecy is that God is suddenly unable to make himself heard to true prophets and so some inaccuracy is now to be expected. Inaccurate prophets are false prophets--deceived goats at best, or deceiving wolves. They must be ejected from any true church of God until they come in broken repentance for their massive sins.
And I say this as someone who has had a supernatural answer from God. One of my children went missing. As I was on the phone with the police, praying silently, the Holy Spirit sent the absolute conviction into my mind where she was and where to send the search team and helicopter. It was a very different place than I'd thought and where we had been looking. This revelation was correct. She was found there, and brought back safe. God does speak. But God doesn't stutter. I didn't need practice hearing him. I didn't need to be quiet in my spirit. I can assure you I was anything but. And God is never wrong.
I absolutely love that testimony. I do respectively disagree with the statement that we don’t need practice. I’d refer to a lot of the arguments we made in the episode and also include that the scriptures themselves say that we are to weigh what was said. Why weigh it if it is absolutely spot on, always? God doesn’t stutter, I agree. It’s our ability to understand what he is saying that is flawed. Same is true with reading and understanding scripture. We grow and practice. God is never wrong but our ability to rightly interpret the scriptures are fallible.
17:50 guys. Use limiters and compressors on your audio. It ain’t hard.
You'll love NPR.
He you want to scripture on how to grow in the gifts of the spirit period using them it's pretty clear that the Corinthian church were acting like cardinal baby Christians. Reach chapter 3 of Corinthians
I would love to read prophecies on websites instead of listening to longwinded, extremely boring, vague, unverifiable, useless monologues. Thankfully, TH-cam shows the time duration on each video icon.
Beardy dude in salmon shirt needs to speak into the microphone
You guys are being too tame. ))
If you have a follow up I'd suggest you debate the disagreement (on authority) between Wayne Grudem and Gordon Fee, perhaps Craig Keener adopted Fee's view.
What if the Gift of Prophecy still means that your life becomes a working demonstration of the heart of God, in as much as He shares His heart with you, namely His sorrow, or cup of suffering.
I believe we are yet mistaken, to so far divorce the Spirit of Prophecy from scripture. New Testament prophecy is not a new phenomenon...
that y
For all the testimony that God revealed to Moses, it was Aaron who became the mouthpiece, not Moses.
Again there's no such thing as Occasional gift. Read the text in chapter 12 of Corinthians it says at the end of listing the gifts as the spirit gives utterance. A person doesn't have a gift of the spirit the gift of the spirit is like a clump of grapes. That can be used as the spirit again moves on a person to do so. Much of the problem the charismatic movement is that many people think they have a gift and they're not listening to God is the whether God wants to heal that person or not
This example of a prophetic smell is ridiculous. You can learn to be sensitive to the moving of the Holy Spirit that is what prophetic conferences seminars whatever you wanna call him should be doing. The last time I had a word for somebody I was going through the drive-through McDonald's And when I got to pick up Window the Lord tell that person I love them. And I told her I don't do this normally but I just feel like God wants you to know that Jesus loves you. That's being obedient to The spirit of God. He had nothing to do with the fact that I was going through the drive-through . One thing I do disagree with some groups want to teach it you can prophesy at will.
I don’t think everything you’re describing is prophecy but rather a word of knowledge. I think probably most of what people think and teach as the gift of prophecy is actually a word of knowledge. Isn’t it important to learn and teach the difference between the gifts and not mix them up? How was saying hi to that youth pastor prophecy?
Can you give me a single biblical example of a word of knowledge being used in the Bible, where it is in fact called a word of knowledge?
There's a question you're talking about whether A vision like Peter had is scripture or not. That you cannot interpret that from scripture. I say yes you can. Because where does it say in scripture that Jews and gentiles are not allowed to eat a meal together. I can show you in scripture like in Genesis 15 or Paul refers to it in Galatians about the promise the guy gave to Abraham and into his seed that his seed Jesus would bless all the nations of the world not just the Jews.
in my humbled opinion, the only misconception about being a prophet at all, is that all prophects are called of God. and even if God did call you to be His prophet, you would not want the job or the great suffering you would have to endure in speaking exclusively for God as 50% of a prophet's work is rebuke. there are no prophets for the church for prophecy is special instructions for a physical people, Israel, returning to a physical land. before the New Testament was completed, God spoke a word of knowledge to certains ones in the congregation but they were no more prophets than a chevy could be a rolls royce. But as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:8 .....whether there be prophecies, they shall fail..." as did all of the other gifts cease after the New Testament was completed. from now on everything the church needs to know, has already been revealed by the epistles.
So then what was the instructions for the church in these last days. "Wait for your Lord from heaven" that is why we say, that the church are "the coming ones", and in the lost tribes of the house of Israel are "the going ones" as they shall return unto the Mighty God of Jabob during the Great Tribulation as they stumble and weep going back to the land of your forefather in Israel..
Did we call him "Ghosty". Maaaaan what we doin😂
👍👏👍👏👍👏👍🔥💯🔥
Love the beard Michael R.
Like to know from each of these three guys here have they ever prophesied? Gave a message in tongues pray for someone to be healed and they were healed because God told them to pray for somebody. Period do you have the prayer language as Paul mentions in first Corinthians 14.? The reason I ask, It's because if you have an operated and been used of the Holy Spirit in any of these ways. Then you need to be quiet because she don't know what you're talking about
We are continuationists. You may want to check out our Gifts of the Spirit playlist: th-cam.com/play/PLMsjeViSScFGpsFnIkPFAIzI4BFoAy3zQ.html
Yes I do see that you do believe in the continuation of the gifts. But you didn't answer my question have you ever prophesied do you pray in tongues. When I looked up your churches that you pastor there's kind of a vague reference to the gifts of the spirit. Why can't you just be clear and say you believe in a separate experience of being baptized in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. I know you guys have come from cessionism. And it seems that some of those teachings are still somewhat coloring your viewpoints.
Interesting conversation and very informative. I my self have dreams. Dreamt of my wife, kids, Jobs Places and people years before it came to be.
I like how Miller dislikes what the charismatic movement has become and as they have and are using God for their evil desires, Just like the witch proclaiming to the town the two apostilles are men of God to make herself look more legit, so has the charismatic movement used and uses the elect ones with gifts that they have deceived, use them to try show others they are legit. BAZINGA
Prophecy doesn't make Scripture insufficient as you stated correctly. No where where in scripture does it say there will be a man named Paul and that Jesus will blind him and call on another called Ananias to go and say he will be a man of God and do great things and so on and so forth. Yet many take it for granted.
The Bible is For me and y'all but its not about me or y'all. Most of the new testament are letters and many times we see Paul say as I have taught you. Many times he never goes into further details on these teachings and what and how he taught these individuals or groups on that certain subject and on others he does.
If you want scripture to be the be all end all cessationists, then how do you wrestle with this verse?
Acts 2
17“ ‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
? Have the last days come and gone or are they on the way?
Have a good day all and thanks for the video RR
The last days started with Jesus’ ascension into the clouds and ends with His return the same way. Therefore, the Church has always been in the “last days” and God pouring out His Spirit upon the earth is each one of us being filled with the Holy Spirit at salvation.
@@postscriptciara I agree with what you say in this comment. Should of said that question is for cessationists. Cheers
Guy in brown shirt sounds looooooooowwww