One interesting tidbit from the field of psychoacoustics is that while audio leading the video by 200ms is quite noticeable, audio trailing by the same amount isn't. That's because in the natural world, sound always lags behind vision due to the speed of sound being much slower than light. The delay is roughly 1ms per foot of distance.
When I was a kid, we visited TV studios, like to sit in the gallery of local kiddie shows. It was overwhelming. Gigantic cameras connected by massive cables snaking along the floor, dozens of blinding hot overhead lights, control rooms and countless staffers running around to operate it all. In glorious, occasionally fuzzy, black and white. One-way broadcast. Now, we have one guy setting up and running his own studio for a few grand, hi-def color and optionally two-way interaction with the viewers. Times really have changed that much.
I am fascinated and sometimes gawk at it, because I helped with a local cable channel in my teens... they had a studio that was 'low end' but was probably in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. No wireless mics, 480i video, gear that was all wired up with tripping hazards... and the mounts had to support 50lbs+, so you couldn't do any fancy magic arms for most things. Plus the old lights got HOT and were very heavy. Had to wear heat-resistant gloves to work on any of that. And have an electrician come to help change anything besides repositioning a light. It's amazing how far video production has come in my short lifetime.
I remember early in pandemic when webcams were hard to find, so NDI gave away free license to their smartphone app that let you use the phone's camera as a webcam (via NDI network protocol). Fast-forward a few years and Apple "Sherlocked" that feature into iOS and macOS, but even an old iPhone is way better than the 720p webcam built into most MacBooks. I used to use a green screen - $3 green plastic tablecloth from walmart, clipped to a clothes-drying rack.
I still do like using obs.camera with OBS for an iPhone NDI camera source over WiFi. Works great as long as I have a good WiFi signal, and it makes it so I don't need to tether a 2nd camera via HDMI!
Didn't realize how much you need your own studio until you moved out of your basement and into that one. Nice set up - even if it is already starting to get a little crowded! 🤣
Heh, well hopefully I'll have enough space for a few years at least! But yes, it is soooo nice to not be hitting my head on the camera every time I walk around my desk, dodging boxes on the floor.
I use voicemeeter to take the audio output from OBS so i can use that with zoom while using virtual camera. That way all output from OBS goes to zoom. It works great!
Interesting about the audio delay. I currently spend 40hrs a week on camera teaching online in zoom. Similarly complex setup but on pc, the delay as I understand in OBS is applied to the video not the audio. But maybe that's because I have it at -250ms. I had spent time dialling this in on another computer using voicemeeter, but on my new system it works out of the box no delay no complaints from my students and not noticeable in zoom recordings. Thanks for sharing
This was such a fun video to watch! In early 2020 we all had to switch to a lot of remote calls. I started out using a Canon C300 mkII, LiteMat 4, and MixPre/Sennheiser as my “webcam setup”… but quickly found out that the quality difference between my feed and everyone else was too jarring 😂 switched to just the FaceTime camera & good mic after that
Hehe, it really depends on the types of meetings you have; somehow most of the teams I've worked with were full of photography nuts, so we usually ended up in an arms race to see who could get the most 'cinematic' zoom calls! Some clients were a little taken aback though, especially when they'd dial in the first time from a phone in some dimly-lit corner of their office building!
Great video Jeff! How do you (if at all) prevent the camera on the arm from shaking when doing a live stream or taking a zoom call where you need to take notes or use something on your desk?
Ha! That's actually a great question... I used to have that problem at my home office-but somehow, it's not an issue at the studio. I think with the amount of weight/mass on my desk, plus the rigidity of the nice thick monitor arm mount + manfrotto magic arm (it's also angled in a way that minimizes torque overall, like a bent elbow and not at full extension), it just doesn't oscillate unless I really slam into the desk. But that's also one reason I've chosen a four-post sit-stand desk for my other shooting area-that stability is so helpful when you're clamping stuff on.
I'm in the process of reassembling and upgrading my setup, but I'm a fan of the black magic atem mini line, and have an atem mini extreme iso for offloading a lot of the work to dedicated hardware, I also use a digital mixer and after reading some comments here might play with one of those used conference room audio processors, I've already got a lot of the equipment in a separate room so fan noise shouldn't be an issue.
Hehe "so you just buy this $1000 camera, slap this $700 lens on it, mount it on this $200 arm, put that into this $100 adapter, and BOOM! Your cheap desk recording setup! It's funny how my perspective on these things has changed... cameras used to be a hobby. Now it's business expense! But I still hope a few of the things I'm doing could be applied no matter what your setup is-like it took me years to discover "magic arms" or "articulating clamp arms" and now I see so many amazing uses. Especially if you splurge a bit and buy the nicer ones. My old bendy arm thingies were always sagging or falling off the clamp.
I look at this like skin care products. Once you start everything is expensive, but then you actually try the actual expensive stuff and then everything is cheap all of the sudden, and the value you create about something that does so much for "so little". (and I'm brazilian btw so when I say expensive is like we don't make a lot of money and skin care products are really not affordable for everyone here with a _monthly minimum salary_ or even 3 idk)
@@stevemulcahy5014 That is indeed my goal-I enjoy video work... but I love all the other things I can document through that work. I want to spend more time testing, building, and tinkering. Every minute spent turning things on or off, or adjusting a lens or mic-that's time taken away from the more valuable work to me!
I use a similar setup on my PopOS computer. I have a Virtual Audio Sink which I use for Zoom, Google Meet and other video call apps. I have mi mic channel to be monitored on that virtual device and then I configure all my video call apps to use it as input. And, as you mentioned, I added a delay in OBS to have my voice in sync with the video
I haven't spent enough time with Pulsewire but it seems like there are some decent tools for it now. I know in the past it could be frustrating replicating someone else's setup unless you're on the exact same distro/releases!
Definitely in advanced audio territory, but one of the coolest pieces of tech I've added to my audio chain was an outboard AV teleconferencing processor. Now, I'm a little buck wild, and I have a digital mixer in my audio chain as well, but I don't really need it except for being a convenient place to mix, apply channel strip style processing (EQ, compression, gate), but one thing this does for me is acoustic echo cancellation. I can send audio output from all my audio generating components (I usually have a primary and a media PC at my desk), and feed that as the AEC reference. The processor strips that out from my microphone signal, leaving just my clean mic audio. Combined with good off-axis rejection microphones, and I get a clean mic signal without any bleed from my speakers on an audio call. Best part? You can pick up these discontinued audio processors for anywhere from $50 to $150 USD on eBay. A couple downsides for casual folks is that the interface to configure it is far from user friendly, and to wire stuff into it, you're splicing cables into Phoenix terminals.
Heh, that's not a bad option either-in my case, I was just careful in positioning the speakers and mic, and I have the speakers usually turned down to a decently-low level, that way I can be on Zoom/Teams/etc and not have the audio bleed really at all. Highly depends on the environment though-I'm also in a large-ish room and put some sound deadening Owens Corning 703 on some walls, so the speakers don't reflect too badly. If you're up against a wall, it's a lot harder to deal with reflections.
Seconded. Check out the Clearone Converge SR1212. Not only do these things have AEC, they also do gating, eq, compression, delay and routing - everything Jeff had going in software. These devices are really powerful. A word of caution though, the cooling fan in the unit is NOT quiet. It's a 1U device that's meant to be installed in a server closet, not under your desk. AEC might help, but it can't help your ears.
That Elgato Prompter is really interesting, I did not know that such a great non-iPad device existed at the price point. Personally I don't need it but I could imagine a lot of people using one just to enhance everyday office communication.
Hey this was great! I have one question, what about feedback, do you wear headphones on calls or does the mic not pick up the speakers? I’ve always wanted a good full duplex setup that lets me use my own mic.
this is also my concern. I would love to kick my headset into the bin. But I'm also skeptical with an feedback loop from a pencil or shotgun mic with normal speakers. Any advice is appreciated!
Since the room acoustics are decent (not too much reflected sound-with drop ceiling tiles and carpet), and the shotgun is aimed around the same axis as the speakers, I don't have any real issue with feedback, as long as I have the speakers at a comfortable or slightly quiet level.
I can see the setup a few years from now: I have these old Red 8k cameras I found in the trash set up for a full 360 degree view with enough mics to accurately do 9.2 surround sound. Also my lights are color accurate down to the sub nanometer. 🤣
I do appreciate the software side of things BUT: your whole camera stream setup is a good chunk of my main pc cost and would be rough to setup for anyone that is still trying to figure out if this is worth the investment. (I do understand you wanting to document for yourself -and others) I would be very interested in more of a software focus (both mac and windows) that could cover more regular stream gear (usb mic and webcam kinda stuff) so people could polish the setup they already have or get into it for ~$100 depending. (TLDR: I know this isn't what your video was about so ignore me, just throwing my thoughts out there) always love your content regardless. (I still like seeing how you do things)
Yeah, mostly I like putting it up so I can look back on it in the future; the audio stuff IMO is the most important *and* cheapest upgrades, even if you go for a cheaper shotgun mic. You can get by with middling quality video, but audio is way more important to at least get good.
The lighting & staging tips in this video are very good, and apply to any level of camera quality. Investing in any mic that’s not your built-in one will be your biggest gain for dollar… lots of affordable options out there these days!
So, we have a pretty similar setup, but the main difference I have is that I'm using an ATEM Mini for my Mic and Video capture - this lets me dial in all of those settings to that external device (this was especially important when I was using an Intel based Mac, I found doing the audio processing and equalizing in software was a bit tough on my machine). This also has the benefit of being useful for capturing multiple input sources, such as when I connect up another PC or device to test it out, I don't have to unplug HDMI cables on my external monitors and can use OBS to capture and record that input if I want.
Oh - and you can configure an audio delay in the ATEM itself, so you don't have to use the virtual cable passthrough for it to work for both recording and video conferencing.
I've been eying a Mini, but I believe it only does 1080p... I want to find a box that'll do 2 or 4 4K inputs, ideally also with the ability to record all streams separate (I'd buy two in a heartbeat!). I've seen the Atomos Sumo but it doesn't do all the audio processing I'd want.
They've consistently been one of my favorite little dev companies. They hit a good stride with making apps good enough, and not trying to cram in too much.
I watched a lighting video a few years ago and learned a lot about setting up a proper 3-point lighting configuration. it was great. 8:48 Man, I practiced so much when I was a kid/teenager... I have no idea how people can snap their fingers independently like musical instruments lol. I can only snap my left hand's fingers at-will. My right hand is uncoordinated with finger snapping lol. 9:44 I'm not sure if it's the same, but VoiceMeeter on Windows does similar if not the same thing. You'd probably be able to pick it up much quicker than I could due to your radio background, since the UI is just a virtual mixer.
That's something I haven't really discussed but I think I may at some point-I have a long time photography background, which is useful for getting nicer shots, highlighting things nicely, minimizing reflections, etc. - a lot of that was learned through photography and awesome books like 'Light, Science & Magic'
Everything is great in your setup, I personally would put the Sony cam a bit further away and lock it's focus so you can get some more focus depth and not have to rely on the auto focus. I'd also add a small and weak light on the coming from underneath your chin to lighten it up more. But still, out of a production value, it's a great set up!!
Yeah, I actually wanted to put the camera back a little more; I tried a 20mm lens (this is 24mm), and liked the FoV more, but there was more distortion. The problem is I kept hitting my head on the camera walking around the desk, haha! So sometimes practicality > perfection with these setups :) It's so much better than at home, where I had only 2' of space on the side of the desk to walk around. I would hit my head a lot more often there.
Heh, the lighting and sound improvements can help a lot-I think there are a few clip-on mounts too, for mini shotgun mics on the top of the display. That would at least level up the sound quality over the built-in mics. Maybe. Apple does a lot of great processing with onboard mics in the latest Macs at least.
Love the 3rd channel, great content. Can't really fault the setup, looks pretty well optimised to me. A decent shotgun mic is a must, gives you the flexibility to move around, plus you don't have to be super close like you do a "studio" mic. Even if I mic up a subject with a lapel mic, I will always setup a shotgun above them as a backup. Jeff's set up lends itself well audio wise coz he's got a wall off screens in front of him, that prevents audio travelling too far and echoing on bounce back, so if you find you get echo, rig up a heavy piece of cloth, blanket, curtain or even mattress behind the camera. Just remember audio trumps video, people will sit through a poor picture with good audio, but not a good picture with bad audio. Teleprompters can get expensive, and at $280 the Elgato Prompter seems good value, coz you'd be looking at around $200 for a decent one, plus you need a tablet or large phone after that, a teleprompter is a good investment though if a subject is looking at the camera, in my early days of camera work I'd have a laptop on books and whatnot just under the lens for them look at, almost unnoticeable compared to reading from the side or above. Really like the screen mirror function on the Elgato Prompter too, really useful that. Search "three point lighting" for good lighting people, your main lights at the front is your key light, usually the brightest, what Jeff described is the back light, to separate subject from background, and optional is fill light from the a 45 degree angle or the side to create a soft shadow across the face. People often don't realise, lighting is the key to a good image, good lighting can improve the lowest quality of cameras, obviously there's a little to this. If lighting is too bright or harsh and you can't turn it down, buy some lighting gel sheets (they are heat proof so safe to use on lights that get hot) to diffuse the light, or turn the light and bounce it of the wall or ceiling. And also, anyone thinking about buying magic arms, buy a good quality one, don't cheap out coz they don't hold what they say they do, but they are very useful and versatile. Great advice on the audio delay, and that Apple only software looks super good, I'm not sure about Windows off hand, but there will be something similar even if it's not a pretty or simple to use. Edit - Thinking about it, I use VB-Audio Virtual Audio on Windows when I restream something to a friend when we watch something together, I use OBS to create the virtual cam for the software used to pick up coz there's no screen share option, then I change my speakers device to "VB Audio Cable In" which I've configured to loop my desktop audio through, so in the software I select "VB Audio Cable Out", I would therefore assume, I could configure the Cable In to be my mic, but I haven't tested that, so I don't know for sure.
...aaand you just wrote the book on videoconferencing setups :D Great advice, agree with every word! Especially on lighting-invest more in lights before camera. No need really for an a6600 and f/1.8 lens, you can get 90% of the way there with a high end webcam for 1/10th the price, as long as you have good light control (and don't shoot directly into a window lol).
I started a deep dive into using obs for hybrid work meetings (local plus zoom participants) about 3 weeks ago. Crushed to discover Zoom is sending my carefully constructed camera output at 640x360 (unless you have a license ) Not so impressive, so I have had to go back to screen sharing for the PowerPoint slides.
Have you experimented with offboard hardware for vocal processing? I think the next step in my setup is to get a (simple) vocal chain running, but running it through a plugin host sadly isn’t much of an option since I switch between machines and OSes often.
Yes! I actually used to use a Symetrix 528E vocal processor at my desk, but that's over at my main recording area now, so I don't have an analog chain pre-computer anymore :( I would love to find a good audio interface (1U rackmount preferred) which has no need to touch a computer, just a balanced audio output (maybe in addition to a USB interface) that lets me set compression, delay, noise gate, etc. all in the box, so I can tweak it nicely and not have to do it in software. I've found a lot of processors that do everything... except the delay :(
You can always get started with less; using a phone hand held close to your mouth for audio, and a GoPro or phone or whatever for video, gets you like 90% of the way there, it's just less convenient.
@@Level2Jeff it's the most bare bones bit of software, and enumerates a audio input, and an output, and looks right out of 95. And it looks like the freeware version no longer exists and it's only paid now
Hi Jeff. I'm really curious about your use of that Behringer USB interface. I had bought a UMC for my own Zoom setup and it just won't work. Read a bit online about it and the general opinion was that those just aren't compatible with Zoom for some reason. I can use it easily with all my other apps that take audio (GarageBand, etc.) but Zoom just balks. I'm wondering now if it works for you bc you run it through that pre-prod software chain and Zoom never actually sees the UMC as the audio source. Guess I have a new project to fiddle with. :-)
Weird! I have an older model (had it for years), and it just uses the standard USB audio interface drivers, nothing special. Maybe a newer revision doesn't play as nice?
I'm against adding delay to any live communication because it tends to lead to people talking over each other way more often, as it breaks the natural flow of conversations. How are you avoiding that issue?
With 200ms it's still short enough to not be distracting. It's only really bad if you're on a connection that's very slow/laggy, where the connection adds 100+ms more delay, and you get up to .5s to 1s of delay. If you talk on a cell phone, most of the time that has 100-300ms delay between each other, and it's pretty natural to talk like that.
@@Level2Jeff I guess it also makes a difference if you can see the other person or if it's a voice only call. My live communications are mostly gaming related, which is much faster paced than a business meeting, and without face cameras. I had to disable RTX voice and replace my bluetooth headphones with AptX-LL capable ones because the delay was very noticeable. But the same change also made my WfH business calls much smoother, so I strive for as little delay as possible
@@Alvin853 Ah yes, in the case of games / real time comms, that can be a huge issue (and video is generally tougher in that realm). Outside of in-person live events, usually game streaming drops video from the equation because of the sync issues.
Do you also use Zoom original sound or just the default? Kinda annoy to activate original sound every single meeting to archive higher Zoom audio quality.
When I remember I turn on the 'sound for musicians' or whatever. Unfortunately Zoom like you mention always disables that when you launch a new meeting!
Haha, yes! And that was my motivation for this video, since enough people have asked me how I have it all set up. I just got the Audio Hijack thing set up last night so that was the final straw. I had to share it!
Jeff, I bought the same webcam because I do video calls all day, but I look like garbage. Is it because I don't have enough light? Is it because it's a 4K camera but I'm just sending 1080p? I'm using Google meet
A lot has to do with lighting. If you can find a way to put a nice soft light (large surface area) to a side or the other of the web cam, an make sure you're not being strongly backlit or side-lit, that helps. With the Logitech autoexposure, you might also run into issues if your background is too dark relative to your face, too. It doesn't expose for a wide range of light very well.
Since the mic is positioned well with the speakers off axis, and there's enough distance behind me the wall doesn't reflect strongly into the mic, I have a lucky space where feedback isn't a big issue unless I turn up the speakers pretty loud. Otherwise I'd wear headphones or at least my earbuds.
Haha I'm just incredibly surprised it worked! Usually it's just a little 'thud' and then my finger hurts. That time... it actually snapped! I can't do it at all with my left hand, I just end up with a hurt finger.
as someone who can snap on all 4 of his fingers on his right hand, but none of his fingers on his left hand, be prepared for me to tell you that I have no idea what makes some people able to snap but not others :🤪
Completely forgot; I use my speakers, and have not had any issue with feedback luckily, probably due to mic placement + not having to turn speakers up too loud to hear people. In some rooms, proximity to a wall might require headphones.
@@Level2Jeff I am a sales engineer. I do a lot of remote work but I rarely use my camera. But when I do I make sure my face isn’t blown out because of the window light. I use my nice podcasting mic and check that my background isn’t too cluttered…then my potential boss (usually a sales only type person) joins from a built in camera on a laptop with a dirty lens and they are on wifi so their signal is choppy 🙄 lol
@@JeffGeerling or even better, the back of a posted note or whatever thing they had used to cover their camera instead of turning it off. learning how to turn it off takes too much effort
One interesting tidbit from the field of psychoacoustics is that while audio leading the video by 200ms is quite noticeable, audio trailing by the same amount isn't. That's because in the natural world, sound always lags behind vision due to the speed of sound being much slower than light. The delay is roughly 1ms per foot of distance.
Welp, time to go off into that rabbit hole of research!
When I was a kid, we visited TV studios, like to sit in the gallery of local kiddie shows. It was overwhelming. Gigantic cameras connected by massive cables snaking along the floor, dozens of blinding hot overhead lights, control rooms and countless staffers running around to operate it all. In glorious, occasionally fuzzy, black and white. One-way broadcast. Now, we have one guy setting up and running his own studio for a few grand, hi-def color and optionally two-way interaction with the viewers. Times really have changed that much.
I am fascinated and sometimes gawk at it, because I helped with a local cable channel in my teens... they had a studio that was 'low end' but was probably in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. No wireless mics, 480i video, gear that was all wired up with tripping hazards... and the mounts had to support 50lbs+, so you couldn't do any fancy magic arms for most things.
Plus the old lights got HOT and were very heavy. Had to wear heat-resistant gloves to work on any of that. And have an electrician come to help change anything besides repositioning a light.
It's amazing how far video production has come in my short lifetime.
I remember early in pandemic when webcams were hard to find, so NDI gave away free license to their smartphone app that let you use the phone's camera as a webcam (via NDI network protocol). Fast-forward a few years and Apple "Sherlocked" that feature into iOS and macOS, but even an old iPhone is way better than the 720p webcam built into most MacBooks. I used to use a green screen - $3 green plastic tablecloth from walmart, clipped to a clothes-drying rack.
I still do like using obs.camera with OBS for an iPhone NDI camera source over WiFi. Works great as long as I have a good WiFi signal, and it makes it so I don't need to tether a 2nd camera via HDMI!
Didn't realize how much you need your own studio until you moved out of your basement and into that one. Nice set up - even if it is already starting to get a little crowded! 🤣
Heh, well hopefully I'll have enough space for a few years at least! But yes, it is soooo nice to not be hitting my head on the camera every time I walk around my desk, dodging boxes on the floor.
I use voicemeeter to take the audio output from OBS so i can use that with zoom while using virtual camera. That way all output from OBS goes to zoom. It works great!
Interesting about the audio delay. I currently spend 40hrs a week on camera teaching online in zoom. Similarly complex setup but on pc, the delay as I understand in OBS is applied to the video not the audio. But maybe that's because I have it at -250ms. I had spent time dialling this in on another computer using voicemeeter, but on my new system it works out of the box no delay no complaints from my students and not noticeable in zoom recordings. Thanks for sharing
This was such a fun video to watch! In early 2020 we all had to switch to a lot of remote calls. I started out using a Canon C300 mkII, LiteMat 4, and MixPre/Sennheiser as my “webcam setup”… but quickly found out that the quality difference between my feed and everyone else was too jarring 😂 switched to just the FaceTime camera & good mic after that
Hehe, it really depends on the types of meetings you have; somehow most of the teams I've worked with were full of photography nuts, so we usually ended up in an arms race to see who could get the most 'cinematic' zoom calls!
Some clients were a little taken aback though, especially when they'd dial in the first time from a phone in some dimly-lit corner of their office building!
You need a matching intro: "I'm Jeff Geerling and you are 5 by 9 +30dB!"
On a PC you could use VB-Audio Virtual Audio Cable for the looped audio.
oh man that real ending is pretty funny!
A 2nd homage to the TH-camr of the day :D
Great video Jeff! How do you (if at all) prevent the camera on the arm from shaking when doing a live stream or taking a zoom call where you need to take notes or use something on your desk?
Ha! That's actually a great question... I used to have that problem at my home office-but somehow, it's not an issue at the studio. I think with the amount of weight/mass on my desk, plus the rigidity of the nice thick monitor arm mount + manfrotto magic arm (it's also angled in a way that minimizes torque overall, like a bent elbow and not at full extension), it just doesn't oscillate unless I really slam into the desk.
But that's also one reason I've chosen a four-post sit-stand desk for my other shooting area-that stability is so helpful when you're clamping stuff on.
I'm in the process of reassembling and upgrading my setup, but I'm a fan of the black magic atem mini line, and have an atem mini extreme iso for offloading a lot of the work to dedicated hardware, I also use a digital mixer and after reading some comments here might play with one of those used conference room audio processors, I've already got a lot of the equipment in a separate room so fan noise shouldn't be an issue.
I feel like after 9 years, you might be a bit biased on the simplicity of your set-up, plus the fact that you do this for a living. 😂
Hehe "so you just buy this $1000 camera, slap this $700 lens on it, mount it on this $200 arm, put that into this $100 adapter, and BOOM! Your cheap desk recording setup!
It's funny how my perspective on these things has changed... cameras used to be a hobby. Now it's business expense!
But I still hope a few of the things I'm doing could be applied no matter what your setup is-like it took me years to discover "magic arms" or "articulating clamp arms" and now I see so many amazing uses. Especially if you splurge a bit and buy the nicer ones. My old bendy arm thingies were always sagging or falling off the clamp.
I look at this like skin care products. Once you start everything is expensive, but then you actually try the actual expensive stuff and then everything is cheap all of the sudden, and the value you create about something that does so much for "so little". (and I'm brazilian btw so when I say expensive is like we don't make a lot of money and skin care products are really not affordable for everyone here with a _monthly minimum salary_ or even 3 idk)
The simplicity is in the day to day being able to press a button for it to all be ready.
@@stevemulcahy5014 That is indeed my goal-I enjoy video work... but I love all the other things I can document through that work. I want to spend more time testing, building, and tinkering. Every minute spent turning things on or off, or adjusting a lens or mic-that's time taken away from the more valuable work to me!
I use a similar setup on my PopOS computer. I have a Virtual Audio Sink which I use for Zoom, Google Meet and other video call apps. I have mi mic channel to be monitored on that virtual device and then I configure all my video call apps to use it as input. And, as you mentioned, I added a delay in OBS to have my voice in sync with the video
I haven't spent enough time with Pulsewire but it seems like there are some decent tools for it now. I know in the past it could be frustrating replicating someone else's setup unless you're on the exact same distro/releases!
@@Level2JeffPipewire is the way to go, using a Jack client you can do some crazy stuff
Definitely in advanced audio territory, but one of the coolest pieces of tech I've added to my audio chain was an outboard AV teleconferencing processor. Now, I'm a little buck wild, and I have a digital mixer in my audio chain as well, but I don't really need it except for being a convenient place to mix, apply channel strip style processing (EQ, compression, gate), but one thing this does for me is acoustic echo cancellation. I can send audio output from all my audio generating components (I usually have a primary and a media PC at my desk), and feed that as the AEC reference. The processor strips that out from my microphone signal, leaving just my clean mic audio. Combined with good off-axis rejection microphones, and I get a clean mic signal without any bleed from my speakers on an audio call. Best part? You can pick up these discontinued audio processors for anywhere from $50 to $150 USD on eBay. A couple downsides for casual folks is that the interface to configure it is far from user friendly, and to wire stuff into it, you're splicing cables into Phoenix terminals.
Heh, that's not a bad option either-in my case, I was just careful in positioning the speakers and mic, and I have the speakers usually turned down to a decently-low level, that way I can be on Zoom/Teams/etc and not have the audio bleed really at all.
Highly depends on the environment though-I'm also in a large-ish room and put some sound deadening Owens Corning 703 on some walls, so the speakers don't reflect too badly. If you're up against a wall, it's a lot harder to deal with reflections.
Seconded. Check out the Clearone Converge SR1212. Not only do these things have AEC, they also do gating, eq, compression, delay and routing - everything Jeff had going in software. These devices are really powerful. A word of caution though, the cooling fan in the unit is NOT quiet. It's a 1U device that's meant to be installed in a server closet, not under your desk. AEC might help, but it can't help your ears.
That Elgato Prompter is really interesting, I did not know that such a great non-iPad device existed at the price point. Personally I don't need it but I could imagine a lot of people using one just to enhance everyday office communication.
Yeah, it's slightly expensive, but not bad compared to buying a small tablet + teleprompter individually.
Level 2 Jeff! I just noticed I was watching a new channel. I love the name.
Your ending is from Gerald Undone.
If I had to pick, I'd say this reminds me of Explaining Computers studio walkthrough. 🖖
Audio IS more important ♥♥
Hey this was great! I have one question, what about feedback, do you wear headphones on calls or does the mic not pick up the speakers? I’ve always wanted a good full duplex setup that lets me use my own mic.
this is also my concern. I would love to kick my headset into the bin. But I'm also skeptical with an feedback loop from a pencil or shotgun mic with normal speakers. Any advice is appreciated!
Since the room acoustics are decent (not too much reflected sound-with drop ceiling tiles and carpet), and the shotgun is aimed around the same axis as the speakers, I don't have any real issue with feedback, as long as I have the speakers at a comfortable or slightly quiet level.
I can see the setup a few years from now:
I have these old Red 8k cameras I found in the trash set up for a full 360 degree view with enough mics to accurately do 9.2 surround sound. Also my lights are color accurate down to the sub nanometer. 🤣
On PC you want to use VoiceMeeter tools to get that delay and do all sorts of other stuff, that can't be done on Mac easily.
I do appreciate the software side of things BUT:
your whole camera stream setup is a good chunk of my main pc cost and would be rough to setup for anyone that is still trying to figure out if this is worth the investment.
(I do understand you wanting to document for yourself -and others)
I would be very interested in more of a software focus (both mac and windows) that could cover more regular stream gear (usb mic and webcam kinda stuff) so people could polish the setup they already have or get into it for ~$100 depending.
(TLDR: I know this isn't what your video was about so ignore me, just throwing my thoughts out there) always love your content regardless. (I still like seeing how you do things)
Yeah, mostly I like putting it up so I can look back on it in the future; the audio stuff IMO is the most important *and* cheapest upgrades, even if you go for a cheaper shotgun mic. You can get by with middling quality video, but audio is way more important to at least get good.
The lighting & staging tips in this video are very good, and apply to any level of camera quality. Investing in any mic that’s not your built-in one will be your biggest gain for dollar… lots of affordable options out there these days!
So, we have a pretty similar setup, but the main difference I have is that I'm using an ATEM Mini for my Mic and Video capture - this lets me dial in all of those settings to that external device (this was especially important when I was using an Intel based Mac, I found doing the audio processing and equalizing in software was a bit tough on my machine). This also has the benefit of being useful for capturing multiple input sources, such as when I connect up another PC or device to test it out, I don't have to unplug HDMI cables on my external monitors and can use OBS to capture and record that input if I want.
Oh - and you can configure an audio delay in the ATEM itself, so you don't have to use the virtual cable passthrough for it to work for both recording and video conferencing.
I've been eying a Mini, but I believe it only does 1080p... I want to find a box that'll do 2 or 4 4K inputs, ideally also with the ability to record all streams separate (I'd buy two in a heartbeat!).
I've seen the Atomos Sumo but it doesn't do all the audio processing I'd want.
I have a DBX 286s for my audio, does compression/limiter and some audio filtering. Hardware is more reliable than software in my experience.
True! I have a Symetrix 528E over on the main shooting area, need to do a video on that setup too, now that it's stable.
The Rogue Amoeba stuff is great!
They've consistently been one of my favorite little dev companies. They hit a good stride with making apps good enough, and not trying to cram in too much.
@@Level2Jeff I completely agree. I like their pricing model. Just enough to make you think, but not crazy expensive either.
we need this outro on the main channel
Good Video ,coming in good on my mac mini m1 2020 Running Asahi linux 😁😁😁😁
Thank you for sharing!
Finger clicking...check out the grasshopper leg video by Steve Mould. A couple of comments on that video are helpful on how to master finger clicking!
I watched a lighting video a few years ago and learned a lot about setting up a proper 3-point lighting configuration. it was great.
8:48 Man, I practiced so much when I was a kid/teenager... I have no idea how people can snap their fingers independently like musical instruments lol. I can only snap my left hand's fingers at-will. My right hand is uncoordinated with finger snapping lol.
9:44 I'm not sure if it's the same, but VoiceMeeter on Windows does similar if not the same thing. You'd probably be able to pick it up much quicker than I could due to your radio background, since the UI is just a virtual mixer.
That's something I haven't really discussed but I think I may at some point-I have a long time photography background, which is useful for getting nicer shots, highlighting things nicely, minimizing reflections, etc. - a lot of that was learned through photography and awesome books like 'Light, Science & Magic'
Everything is great in your setup, I personally would put the Sony cam a bit further away and lock it's focus so you can get some more focus depth and not have to rely on the auto focus.
I'd also add a small and weak light on the coming from underneath your chin to lighten it up more.
But still, out of a production value, it's a great set up!!
Yeah, I actually wanted to put the camera back a little more; I tried a 20mm lens (this is 24mm), and liked the FoV more, but there was more distortion. The problem is I kept hitting my head on the camera walking around the desk, haha! So sometimes practicality > perfection with these setups :)
It's so much better than at home, where I had only 2' of space on the side of the desk to walk around. I would hit my head a lot more often there.
Meanwhile me with my 720p MacBook Air webcam: 🫥
Heh, the lighting and sound improvements can help a lot-I think there are a few clip-on mounts too, for mini shotgun mics on the top of the display. That would at least level up the sound quality over the built-in mics. Maybe. Apple does a lot of great processing with onboard mics in the latest Macs at least.
Love the 3rd channel, great content. Can't really fault the setup, looks pretty well optimised to me. A decent shotgun mic is a must, gives you the flexibility to move around, plus you don't have to be super close like you do a "studio" mic. Even if I mic up a subject with a lapel mic, I will always setup a shotgun above them as a backup. Jeff's set up lends itself well audio wise coz he's got a wall off screens in front of him, that prevents audio travelling too far and echoing on bounce back, so if you find you get echo, rig up a heavy piece of cloth, blanket, curtain or even mattress behind the camera. Just remember audio trumps video, people will sit through a poor picture with good audio, but not a good picture with bad audio.
Teleprompters can get expensive, and at $280 the Elgato Prompter seems good value, coz you'd be looking at around $200 for a decent one, plus you need a tablet or large phone after that, a teleprompter is a good investment though if a subject is looking at the camera, in my early days of camera work I'd have a laptop on books and whatnot just under the lens for them look at, almost unnoticeable compared to reading from the side or above. Really like the screen mirror function on the Elgato Prompter too, really useful that.
Search "three point lighting" for good lighting people, your main lights at the front is your key light, usually the brightest, what Jeff described is the back light, to separate subject from background, and optional is fill light from the a 45 degree angle or the side to create a soft shadow across the face. People often don't realise, lighting is the key to a good image, good lighting can improve the lowest quality of cameras, obviously there's a little to this. If lighting is too bright or harsh and you can't turn it down, buy some lighting gel sheets (they are heat proof so safe to use on lights that get hot) to diffuse the light, or turn the light and bounce it of the wall or ceiling.
And also, anyone thinking about buying magic arms, buy a good quality one, don't cheap out coz they don't hold what they say they do, but they are very useful and versatile.
Great advice on the audio delay, and that Apple only software looks super good, I'm not sure about Windows off hand, but there will be something similar even if it's not a pretty or simple to use. Edit - Thinking about it, I use VB-Audio Virtual Audio on Windows when I restream something to a friend when we watch something together, I use OBS to create the virtual cam for the software used to pick up coz there's no screen share option, then I change my speakers device to "VB Audio Cable In" which I've configured to loop my desktop audio through, so in the software I select "VB Audio Cable Out", I would therefore assume, I could configure the Cable In to be my mic, but I haven't tested that, so I don't know for sure.
...aaand you just wrote the book on videoconferencing setups :D Great advice, agree with every word!
Especially on lighting-invest more in lights before camera. No need really for an a6600 and f/1.8 lens, you can get 90% of the way there with a high end webcam for 1/10th the price, as long as you have good light control (and don't shoot directly into a window lol).
I learned how to snap my fingers from watching Addams Family.
I can snap but after I had braces cannot whistle. At all.
I started a deep dive into using obs for hybrid work meetings (local plus zoom participants) about 3 weeks ago. Crushed to discover Zoom is sending my carefully constructed camera output at 640x360 (unless you have a license ) Not so impressive, so I have had to go back to screen sharing for the PowerPoint slides.
Yeah... that is quite annoying, being all pixely.
Have you experimented with offboard hardware for vocal processing? I think the next step in my setup is to get a (simple) vocal chain running, but running it through a plugin host sadly isn’t much of an option since I switch between machines and OSes often.
Yes! I actually used to use a Symetrix 528E vocal processor at my desk, but that's over at my main recording area now, so I don't have an analog chain pre-computer anymore :(
I would love to find a good audio interface (1U rackmount preferred) which has no need to touch a computer, just a balanced audio output (maybe in addition to a USB interface) that lets me set compression, delay, noise gate, etc. all in the box, so I can tweak it nicely and not have to do it in software.
I've found a lot of processors that do everything... except the delay :(
I enjoy so much your content, that even if you had a 10th channel, I would subscribe
For PC you can use Voicemeeter.
If you want something more minimalistic you can try out Blackhole
You have just put me off becoming a creator!
You can always get started with less; using a phone hand held close to your mouth for audio, and a GoPro or phone or whatever for video, gets you like 90% of the way there, it's just less convenient.
For Windows audio loot back, I recommend this horrible bit of freeware called virtual audio cable
Hehe the best kind of freeware. If it's horrible, you know people actually can get something done (horribly, but if it works...!).
@@Level2Jeff it's the most bare bones bit of software, and enumerates a audio input, and an output, and looks right out of 95.
And it looks like the freeware version no longer exists and it's only paid now
Zoom not having a built-in audio delay function is so frustrating.
Agreed, you'd think they could get that in with all their other audio processing pipeline.
Hi Jeff. I'm really curious about your use of that Behringer USB interface. I had bought a UMC for my own Zoom setup and it just won't work. Read a bit online about it and the general opinion was that those just aren't compatible with Zoom for some reason. I can use it easily with all my other apps that take audio (GarageBand, etc.) but Zoom just balks. I'm wondering now if it works for you bc you run it through that pre-prod software chain and Zoom never actually sees the UMC as the audio source. Guess I have a new project to fiddle with. :-)
Weird! I have an older model (had it for years), and it just uses the standard USB audio interface drivers, nothing special. Maybe a newer revision doesn't play as nice?
VB cable or NDI for audio with OBS virtual camera
I'm against adding delay to any live communication because it tends to lead to people talking over each other way more often, as it breaks the natural flow of conversations. How are you avoiding that issue?
With 200ms it's still short enough to not be distracting. It's only really bad if you're on a connection that's very slow/laggy, where the connection adds 100+ms more delay, and you get up to .5s to 1s of delay.
If you talk on a cell phone, most of the time that has 100-300ms delay between each other, and it's pretty natural to talk like that.
@@Level2Jeff I guess it also makes a difference if you can see the other person or if it's a voice only call. My live communications are mostly gaming related, which is much faster paced than a business meeting, and without face cameras.
I had to disable RTX voice and replace my bluetooth headphones with AptX-LL capable ones because the delay was very noticeable. But the same change also made my WfH business calls much smoother, so I strive for as little delay as possible
@@Alvin853 Ah yes, in the case of games / real time comms, that can be a huge issue (and video is generally tougher in that realm).
Outside of in-person live events, usually game streaming drops video from the equation because of the sync issues.
Do you also use Zoom original sound or just the default? Kinda annoy to activate original sound every single meeting to archive higher Zoom audio quality.
When I remember I turn on the 'sound for musicians' or whatever. Unfortunately Zoom like you mention always disables that when you launch a new meeting!
Was this the setup you had with Redshirt Jeff during Talking Heads?
Haha, yes! And that was my motivation for this video, since enough people have asked me how I have it all set up. I just got the Audio Hijack thing set up last night so that was the final straw. I had to share it!
voicemeeter for windows.
Jeff, I bought the same webcam because I do video calls all day, but I look like garbage. Is it because I don't have enough light? Is it because it's a 4K camera but I'm just sending 1080p? I'm using Google meet
A lot has to do with lighting. If you can find a way to put a nice soft light (large surface area) to a side or the other of the web cam, an make sure you're not being strongly backlit or side-lit, that helps. With the Logitech autoexposure, you might also run into issues if your background is too dark relative to your face, too. It doesn't expose for a wide range of light very well.
your android smartphone now has webcam function over USB
What are you using for audio output? Do you have to do anything clever to stop your mic picking it up?
Since the mic is positioned well with the speakers off axis, and there's enough distance behind me the wall doesn't reflect strongly into the mic, I have a lucky space where feedback isn't a big issue unless I turn up the speakers pretty loud. Otherwise I'd wear headphones or at least my earbuds.
Gerald Undone
you mentioned a teleprompter monitor that uses Display Link on it, do you have the model by any chance?
It's the Elgato Prompter - it's an all-in-one unit. I kinda wish they sold the display portion of it separately, too, but I haven't found that.
as someone who cannot snap their fingers, be prepared for all the comments of people trying to tell you how to snap your fingers!
Haha I'm just incredibly surprised it worked! Usually it's just a little 'thud' and then my finger hurts. That time... it actually snapped! I can't do it at all with my left hand, I just end up with a hurt finger.
as someone who can snap on all 4 of his fingers on his right hand, but none of his fingers on his left hand, be prepared for me to tell you that I have no idea what makes some people able to snap but not others :🤪
@@Nobe_Oddy I cannot even imagine snapping my pinkie finger! Ha!
I can't snap my fingers on my right hand but can easily do it on my left which was broken on a slide as a child.
That effect at the end looked painful.
🫠
@Jeff you didn't tell us how you hear! Do you use speakers or headphones
Completely forgot; I use my speakers, and have not had any issue with feedback luckily, probably due to mic placement + not having to turn speakers up too loud to hear people. In some rooms, proximity to a wall might require headphones.
Dave Plumber
so if i do this, i will automatically get selected for any job interviews i do? ok GOT IT ;)
If you are interviewed for a new job as a remote meeting facilitator, probably definitely lol
@@Level2Jeff I am a sales engineer. I do a lot of remote work but I rarely use my camera. But when I do I make sure my face isn’t blown out because of the window light. I use my nice podcasting mic and check that my background isn’t too cluttered…then my potential boss (usually a sales only type person) joins from a built in camera on a laptop with a dirty lens and they are on wifi so their signal is choppy 🙄 lol
@@neverthere5689 Haha, or they're like "oh my camera's not working" and you're sitting there talking to a blank user icon.
@@JeffGeerling or even better, the back of a posted note or whatever thing they had used to cover their camera instead of turning it off. learning how to turn it off takes too much effort
MKBHD?
Wow Im early! :)
You are.
Not only that... also FIRST! :D
awesome setup, just going to assume whatever @CraftComputing used to bring you onto the live stream made it blurry?
Yeah... sadly I don't pay for a Zoom account so it's like 360p :(
GERALD UNDONE MENTIONED!!!1!!! 🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪🟪
You, sir, have won. First to identify the TH-camr!