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How To Use Outboard Gear With A DAW | Patchbay Setup & Signal Flow
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- How do you set up and use outboard audio gear for mixing music? In this video, you'll find out. We'll look at using outboard microphone preamps, compressors, analog summing mixers, and more!
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Cranborne Audio 500ADAT 8-slot 500 Series Chassis
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/153019
Cranborne Audio Camden 500 Series Microphone Preamp
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/gbVjDA
dbx 560a 500 Series Compressor/Limiter
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/XxqbdX
Radial EXTC 500 Series Guitar Effects Interface
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/BXQrxy
Cranborne Audio N22H Headphone Amp & C.A.S.T. Breakout Box
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/1530oz
Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Audio Interface
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/GjoNLL
Samson S-Patch Plus 48-point Balanced Patchbay
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/DVrPAb
Strymon blueSky Reverberator Pedal
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/WDLn4A
Waves NLS Non-Linear Summer Plugin
- Sweetwater: imp.i114863.net/ZdDOXX
- Waves: waves.alzt.net/VyWEZO
Instrument Frequency Guide (Free Download): audiouniversityonline.com/ins...
EQ User Guide (Free Download): audiouniversityonline.com/eq-...
Ear Training Guide (Free Download): audiouniversityonline.com/ear...
00:00 - Introduction
00:25 - Microphone Preamps
02:21 - Input Signal Chain
03:34 - Inserts
05:30 - FX Sends & Returns
07:30 - Analog Summing
09:33 - Cables & Patchbays
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Disclaimer: This video is sponsored by Sweetwater. This description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click them, I will receive a small commission at no cost to you.
Question: What gear would you have in your dream outboard rack?
Leave a comment below!
Con todo respeto eres una verg@ 👏
Que explicaciones haces
Espero un día conocerte para que me des unas buenas lecciones personales
O en que estado vives
Por si queda cerca de donde estoy
Well, I have the fundamentals to start, but one bothersome issue is my monitor output is automatically muting on/off. Seems to be a particular issue with the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 - 2nd gen. Yours is a 3rd gen unit, yes?
@Henry Van Weeren - Yes, mine is the 3rd generation. I haven’t experienced this issue so far. Have you tried updating the firmware?
@@AudioUniversity I'm using a hand-me-down laptop with Win7. There are no more firmware updates for it. I may try uninstall/reinstall the latest available for it. This hasn't happened until I accidentally installed the Win10 firmware the other day.
Is there a difference signal or sonic wise doing it with a patch bay vs running ex preamp to compressor to interface to computer?
Some new guys may not appreciate this as they should. You are spitting MAD FIRE! with this information.
Thanks, Shanesaw Productions!
This is so insanely informative. Been a software only guy for the past 12 years but been considering incorporating a hybrid workflow. This video made it make sense. Thanks for the knowledge and time taken to share it!
Found your video and the timing couldn't have been better! Getting ready to re-do the hardware in my studio (and I'm adding additional gear, including a 500 series rack). So now I'm in the process of laying out my 2 patch bays. Your video is giving me some ideas of where to start.
Thank you!!
Huge contribution to everyone! Thank You Very Much for all the huge amount of work that went into making this video! Best Regards and Best Wishes!
Excellent Tutorial!! Clear and Direct explanation without all the jibber jabber. Thank You.
I really appreciate and enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and techniques. Keep up the great work!
Glad to hear you're enjoying the videos, KeefRoc. Thanks for watching!
Absolutely wonderful content. You’re a great teacher. Subbed!!!
Great break down!
Very informative video. You have a nice setup there.
Last week, for a mix challenge with already recorded tracks, I used external effects from my pedalboard: an envelope filter for a guitar and a preamp/overdrive for the bass (don’t have a patch bay, though, as my number of outputs is low). It makes a lot of fun having these possibilities.
That’s awesome, Korkenknopfus! I could tweak and experiment with guitar pedals for hours (which may or may not be a good thing. haha). Thanks for watching and sharing these ideas!
My notification bell is always on 🙌
Thanks, Ally Beatz! Glad to hear it! Hope you enjoyed the video!
I really appreciate your videos mate, f&$&in great work
glad i found this
Wow that cranborne rack is dope. Wish my API’s had a chain switch.
Big Thanks Kyle. Really helpful.
Glad to be helpful to you, Dewa. Thanks for watching!
@@AudioUniversity my pleasure. I always waiting for new video, every week. all the best, Kyle.
Another good video ----- Reaper interface looks so clean compared to so many DAW's which look so crowded and junky.
After finally understanding this, I think I'll stick with emulations. 😂 Great video though. Was hard to find something that covered this thoroughly.
What would be the different from adding a patchbay to say a Scarlett 18i8 for all your equipment, or adding a Clarett+ OctoPre? to add more equipment?
I have a similar setup with the Cranborne ADAT w/ Bitwig Studio. I have 4 Wes Audio 500 series modules going to/from my interface via ADAT. When the inserts are engaged I get a terrible clicking noise. Any thoughts?
With the 500 r8 are you able to use other ad/da converters ? If heard cranborn had issues with the spdif
Thanks for the clear explanations! If you have a condenser microphone and the 500 series preamp provides phantom power, is it safe to pass phantom power through a patch bay?
Just make sure that you're using a balanced patchbay and turn off phantom power while connecting or disconnecting the TRS plugs. You can find more info here: imp.i114863.net/ORQ1LP
Thanks for watching, Simon!
Good video thank you I have a question where did you get those blank panels for the Cranborne audio , And will there be any more videos on the Cranborne.
That's very slick gear. Great video, thanks.
Thanks, Euphonic Studio Recording!
Exceptional video once again, great explanation and practical examples!
One question that always seemed to be left unanswered in my head is what about latency? Does all that A/D-D/A conversion back and fourth introduce noticeable latency/delay at some point that should be adjusted for when recorded back into the DAW or is there another way to mitigate that? I'm asking about both the analog and ADAT connection methods with outboard gear. Cheers!
That’s a good point. Latency can definitely be an issue here. Most programs have delay compensation, but it’s worth checking that it’s accurate, especially when using various paths of varying latency at once.
Zero Latency. If you you connect Adat your interface. Conect TRS cables from Aux input from the Cranboune to a 2nd output source in your Interface and configure using your interface software. I use alot of vintage synths via midi and always find this method the most stable and fun to use. Hope this helps.
Can you just use the interface on the Cranbourne to do all your I/O for the analogue summing?
I am running into a lot of latency now that I have set up my outboard gear via a 500 series rack that comes back into my Apollo 8XP, even when I adjust for delay compensation on Luna. My patchbay is set up in a similar fashion to yours with through mode. Any ideas on how I can get rid of this latency?
Thank you.
Do you know if this is possible on the Apogee Symphony desktop?… IE… sending digital to analog, then through outboard gear and then analog back to digital.
Thanks for any comments.
One more question that keeps poping up and I still can't seem to wrap my head around is the whole XLR-TRS cableing and connceting thing when using the 1/4'' patchbays when it comes to microphone signals. So in the first example you showed where you have your mics pre-connected (normalled) to the mic inputs of the focusrite via the patchbay how does this work cable-wise?
XLR to TRS cable from the mic into the back of patchbay and then TRS to XLR cable from the patchbay's back into the mic input of the focusrite? Does that also work for condenser mics that require Phantom Power?
Also, does the same apply the external mic-pre? Meaning, the output of the patchbay's back goes from TRS to XLR to be able to plug into the mic inputs of your external gear?
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I can't seem to find info on this anywhere and sinse everybody is using TRS patchbays for mic signals too, the only logical way I can think of (besides using DSUB25 snake connections) is this. I'd really love some insight into the cable aspect and correct me if I'm wrong with the observations I made.
Cheers Kyle! :)
That’s correct! XLR to TRS from the mic to the patchbay. TRS to XLR from the patchbay to the interface preamp. You can also patch mics that aren’t hard wired to the patchbay directly to the preamp input on the front of the patchbay using an XLR to TRS cable.
@@AudioUniversity I see, seems logical. Thanks for the quick response!
Weird that that’s rarely if never talked about, at least it seems to me. :) What about phantom power? Should there be considerations there when talking about phantom power coming from a TRS cable end or is that more a matter of how good/feature-rich the patchbay is and how it manages that and not that much of a cable problem?
Hi. I dont understand : my 500 format lunchbox's output is XLR - so I should get a XLR patch ?
You can easily adapt between XLR, TRS, and TT. So you may need an adapter snake. Just avoid is repatching TRS while a phantom powered mic is connected.
I’m using Logic X Pro and am trying to record something, then record it a second time where it goes out to some pedals and back. I’m struggling to get it all working correctly. Anyone have experience with this specifically? The main issue is setting Focusrite’s software correctly to play nice with Logic, im not sure how to setup the in/out properly as it never seems to work correctly.
Why don’t you use the Adat channels and then use the mix knobs to route the signal out to the summing mix of the Cranborne?
When summing with the Cranbourne does it not go via the 500 series modules installed in those slots? I thought the signal was routed through them before returning?
The modules are bypassed for summing.
@@AudioUniversity thanks. I have a couple of units without bypass so I’ve always avoided using the channels for summing in case it caused phasing issues on stereo tracks.
At 2:00, by connecting the output right above the input and needing to switch to 'thru mode' to avoid a possible feedback loop, why not stagger them as good practice?
That’s an interesting idea! For me, I’m just used to seeing it this way. I think staggering would confuse me and waste potential space for other blocks.
First and subscribed!
Thanks for watching, Retro Alligator!
How do you use phantom power mics when plugging into the front of the patch bay ? TRS to XLR cables ?
Yes. Just be sure not to connect or disconnect the TRS end while phantom power is engaged.
@@AudioUniversity Is this true? I was under the impression that phantom power requires xlr-xlr
My setup is Motu 828es and Adat 500. Is there anyway to connect to non 500 series gear like my SSL Fusion from the Cranborne I/O ?
Yes! The Cranborne 500ADAT can also be used as an analog 8x8 IO expansion with ADAT. So, you can use each slot as either a 500 module or an ADAT input and output.
Sounds like you’ve got a great setup, Andrew. Nice!
@@AudioUniversity Cool ! Do I have to set the bypass in the module slot to ON then set the input switch to adat ? or how ?
How do you avoid unwanted noise or hum when connecting to your pedalboard?
Using a reamp box like the Radial EXTC helps a lot!
Hello AU, I just need some help. I have a BBE sonic maximizer, and it's my first analog gear, and I'm using the Mtrack Dou Audio Interface. I want to use my sonic maximizer to some track that needed to be phase corrected but I had no idea what to do, since I'm digital user🤣 or should I sell my maximizer or buy a new Audio interface?
Thanks! 😊
This interface only has 2 outputs, so you’ll need to use one of those for your insert send and one of the inputs for your insert return.
@@AudioUniversity So no need to use mixer? Some suggested that I need to use a mixer.
Hi, thanks for this video! This might be a beginner’s question, but if the preamp is a part of the patch bay, how would you use the preamp’s phantom power to power to a condenser microphone?
Phantom power passes through the patchbay.
@@AudioUniversity ahh I see, even through TRS cables?
Yes. A TRS connector has three connections just like an XLR connector. Just be sure to never connect or disconnect a 1/4 TRS while phantom power is engaged. That could cause an electrical short which may damage your microphone.
Gonna need this in the future...🙄
Why the fucking sarcasm?
Hello! Great Video! Keep up the great work! Quick question: I have an Apollo X6 and am trying to connect an outboard Warm Audio WA73-eq Pream. When I open Reaper and Insert the Reainsert, the plugin only identifies "Mon Left" and "Mon Right" (Hardware Sends) and "Mic/Line/HiZ 1" and "Mic/line/HiZ 2" (Hardware Returns). So, I can not "turn on" the channels I've connected the Outboard Gear to (Input 3 and Output 3). But in the Options/Preferences Tab in Reaper, the Enabled Inputs and Output Range identifies all my channels (including the ones I've connected the outboard gear to). What am I missing Here?... Thanks in advance! Cheers from Portugal!
Hmm… I was going to have you check your Input and Output ranges, but it sounds like you already have.
Have you checked in UA Console? Also, ensure you’re using the correct driver in Reaper.
@@AudioUniversity what/how should i check in uad console?
Have you checked that those outputs/inputs aren’t being used elsewhere in the session?
@@AudioUniversity how do i do that? Sorry, noob here! :)
Thanks, could i use guitar efx(analog/digital) for fx send in a mixer?
Yes. You would also need a channel for an FX return.
Oh thanks. How bout using guitar pedals as microphone effect without plugging it to a mixer after the chain?
You can send any line level signal through the EFX and it outputs a line level signal.
Danke!
Gerne! Thanks for watching!
How to setup headphones and talkback mic in the counsel cuz I dont know anything to do in counsel
Usually, your headphone mixes will be created using aux outputs. That way, you can use the aux send (pre fader) on each channel of your console to determine how much of that channel will be sent to the headphones. You can connect your talkback microphone to its own channel on the console and use its aux send to route the talkback microphone to each headphone mix.
I’d recommend using a switched microphone or a post-fader send for the talkback mic so that you can quickly mute and unmute.
I stil don't understand how you use your interface inputs. I imagine you linked your Focusrite mic inputs (XLR) to the patchbay, so your mic lines are normalled. But I don't understand how you use external pres, which deliver line level audio, to the same patch points for your interface inputs. I thought the XLRs on the Focusrite are only mic level, and for line level you had to use TRS, and since it has combo jacks, only one of the two can be linked to the patchbay.
That’s a great point. It can be lived with by adjusting levels accordingly, but ideally you’d have separate patch points for line and mic inputs.
How does one go about patching a mic through a patchbay without using a preamp?
I've been looking into getting a patchbay to rouy my instruments and mics, but I can't figure out how a person can connect their xlr mic that needs phantom power through it. I just want to use the pres built into my interfac
If you only want to use the preamps built into your interface, you can connect the mic lines directly to the interface. Although, a balanced TRS patchbay passes phantom power to mics also, so you could set it up as shown in the video.
@@AudioUniversity ah, so if I get a balanced patchbay I can use an xlr to trs cable? I want to more or less treat the mic as "anouther instrument" that can just be patched through.
Yes. If you wanted to use the patchbay as an input panel, you can connect mics to the preamp inputs with XLR to TRS adapters. I do this sometimes when I’m using a microphone for testing.
@@AudioUniversity ah okay, excellent. Thank you so much much taking the time to respond, I really appreciate it.
I don't think it would be an exaggeration to say your channel has anything other than an invaluable resource while I've been expanding my little hobby home studio, haha. You do great work
Glad to help, Narfwin! Thanks for showing up, learning, and supporting the channel.
Crazy, I literally started with the exact same cards for my 500R8…
I like your taste, Robert! Which 500 modules have you added?
@@AudioUniversity I’ve got 2 Camden preamps In right now, I ordered the Radial EXTC-500 Reamp and a DBX-560A compressor a few days ago, haven’t received those yet… Just funny that I ordered those before seeing your video, so at least I know exactly what it’s going to look like… I like the Caden pre’s so I think they’ll stay… Haven’t decided on the rest yet, but I’m looking at either a couple Neve 1073LB EQ or the SSL 611 EQ, maybe the SSL ultraviolet and the AMS Neve RMX16 reverb (not in stock or I’d have ordered it)… might go with a couple Neve 1073 preamps, but the Camden’s seem decent enough that I’m still thinking on that… though call when I could have 6 Camden pre’s for the same as 2 Neve’s and have 8 channels if needed… Lot of choices… picked up the DBX compressor mint used for $160 so I figured can’t go wrong there… I’ll get me learning the 500 rack until I decide on which compressors I want… Loving the Cranborne 500R8, it replaced an SSL2+ interface so it’s a huge upgrade… So right now I’m just doing research, don’t have the budget to have multiple flavors of everything from the start, especially the stuff from Neve and SSL I’ve been looking at…
Can u suggest me a mixer that as 20 to 30 channel in price range of 600 to 800 for a church
Your best option might be a remote-controlled console that is controlled by a tablet at that price point. Although, there are some more traditional consoles available within that budget as well. Here are some options: imp.i114863.net/MXxjPM
@@AudioUniversity ZOOM LIVETRAK L-20 20-CHANNEL DIGITAL MIXER / RECORDER or ZOOM LIVETRAK L20R 20-CHANNEL REMOTE-CONTROLLED DIGITAL MIXER / RECORDER which is better options? Your a expert in it sir and I been looking at ur video so long and I thought it would be better get a opinion from you. Which can handle a 10 mic, 2 guitar, and a keyboard???
😎💯
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed the video.
Why is your patch bay upside down? Sources are usually on top and destinations are on the bottom.
Hearing a compressed signal can actually really hurt a vocalists performance as the vocalist can't effectively control the dynamics of their voice. Much better to let the vocalist hear the raw signal before the compressor while recording the compressed signal.
Good point, bsidebeats! I can totally see compression causing problems like you're describing. Perhaps it depends on the vocalist, genre, etc. Thanks for sharing!
If Sweetwater sent that stuff to all of us we'd use it. If you have a BOSS pedal, you don't need reamping. Advice that uses $2k free hardware from Sweetwater is useless to most of us. I also have the 18i20 interface, it has fine preamps but I also use an outboard preamp sometimes. It doubles as a direct box. A good preamp is simple and easy for far less than those fanboy lunchboxes. Hardware is generally over.
Very confusing. Needed section series.
Is there a specific part I can help you with, John?
Absolutely lost within two minutes. Time to sell up and move onto basket weaving.
Lmfoaooo
Yep, I find this insanely senseless, I must be dyslexic or every patchbay video loves to chinwag instead of straightforward instructions
Title should be "How To Use Cranborne Gear With A DAW..." Seems like a big ad for the Cranborne Adat
The steps and principles apply to any analog outboard gear. Just demonstrated on the Cranborne Audio 500ADAT. Thanks for watching, MT.
Reaper? Is this a joke?
Your comment is the joke. Reaper is as good as any other professional DAW.
this is dump everything u need is in the interface or vst throw all that old crap out bruh
You're quite ignorant.