It’s center of mass might be farther back. I remember in Enterprise they mentioned the nacelles were made of osmium, so Voyager’s are probably also made of some similarly dense metal.
This is why I loved the show, having the ship land for the first time of any ST show was great. Just like back on STNG when they had the ship saparate into two parts. And we find out that the classic show ST also had that ability two but they never tried it shame.
i soo love blue alert, it was only seen like 3 times in the entire franchise. twice in voyager when it was going to land and once in TNG when the bridge lost life support
In TOS, the ship could separate only as a last resort - the reintegration of the saucer and the engineering section was a major starbase job. The Galaxy-class was the first to be able to separate and reintegrate at will.
truthhurts101 Actually it was hindsight, the Enterprise D saucer was supposed to be able to land but they didn't put them in so they crashed it in Generations
The real world reason for the transporters in the original series was to avoid the cost of filming a landing sequence. Several decades later, they come up with a reason to not use them so they have to land the ship.
I always wondered how they explained how a 700,000 ton ship was able to sit there on those relatively small landing struts without sinking. I don't think even bedrock would be able to hold that much weight in such a small surface. Maybe the structural integrity fields were routed through the feet to make the surface able to hold the weight?
Well, I'm not sure if there's a definitive answer, but I would assume that the warp nacelles, core, and other engineering systems in the secondary hull would have more mass than the primary hull, which is mostly living spaces with some equipment thrown in. Also, some fans suggest that the gravity systems may remain active to elimanate most of the weight and that the landing struts just get enough weight on them to keep the ship from 'sliding' around on the surface. Either way, it would be bad news if you lost all power while landed since the full weight of the ship would certainly drive those struts into the ground and then 'pancake' the lower levels of the secondary hull before the pressure was distributed enough to support the rest of the ship.
Just saying... For all who don't know this isn't normally standard procedure for most vessels... Because ships didn't have landing legs (unless i'm missing something)... Therefore I appreciate voyagers attempt at bringing a new feature to a new vessel good creativity in star-ship design we don't really see anymore... Here's hoping the Discovery has some kind of unique ability
Well played, Tuvok and Janeway! Subtle as ever as soon as Chakotay says "I could take a shuttle", he's on it like a shot with "Whoooa there horsey, I don't think so" and Janeway's straight in with "I'll risk all our lives rather than have you fly anything again... how many shuttles have you killed now?!"
"altitude 100 kilometres, speed 10,000KPH" I always felt this was wrong on two accounts (a) American show, "Starfleet HQ" been in San Francisco would operate in MPH (b) the Space shuttle lands at 364kph (226mph)
Well I did a little more looking into it. Most Trek websites I look at don't give much info, but I do know the Warp Coils are supposed to be the heaviest part of the ship. and there's a comment on "Demon - Landing Sequence" video that makes reference to using anti-grav generators to help out.
I presume that you like me (in 2023) started the special manouvers flightschool training program for an Intrepid class starship. Out and in of Spacedock is easy compared to landing one. 😉
I'm not as versed in this as others in the fandom, but I think Voyager as an Intrepid class is the first ship shown in Star Trek shows that was actually small enough to land. Based on comparisons to other objects, I'm tempted to say that the Galaxy class Enterprise-D would be too large to put down on a planet without damaging the surroundings or the ship itself. Google says the Enterprise-D doesn't even have landing gear.
@@dahken417 100% agree Voyager i belive is a science type vessel so it makes sense it would be smaller and maybe be able to land if the need was there, where as the Galaxy class is about the size of a small city
For ship thats real far from home having afew officer onboard who has feel of landing and taking off from a planet will be for everyone onboard since they'll never when they may need to so again whatever reason.
+Jose Roman It's not that hard to do, in 'Basics' a Kazon was able to land the ship with not fuss and bother and he'd literally only been on board for a few minuets.
9 times the speed of light lol even at that speed which break the laws of physics you couldn't even cross over are own milky way gallexy in a entire life time.
Warp 9 isn't equal to 9c. That said, the Star Trek writers have always been extremely inconsistent with just how fast warp speeds were. In the semi recent Star Trek reboot, they were able to warp to Vulcan in mere minutes, when it probably should have taken a few days or so.
@@crucisnh Bout a week or two at fairly high warp . Its confusing now that they changed the scale but warp 9.975 which is voyagers maximum warp is about 3400c. Still takes decades to travel across the galaxy at that speed. In enterprise it took them like a Month or more to get to Kronos at warp 4.5. Even at the enterprises top seed of warp 8 it would take a few days at least
Also as warp drive is described it doesn't break any physical laws that we know of. These is nothing preventing space itself expanding or contracting faster than light. An example of this being black holes contracting space faster than light within their event horizon. Although current energy estimates using theoretical and possible impossible particles still require more energy than would be practically possible.
I agree. Voyager was answering a distress call, and Mr. Tuvok considered using the shuttlecraft was unwise because of the turbulence in the planet’s atmosphere , so landing Voyager was Captain Janeway’s only option.
I always disliked the idea of Voyager being capable of landing with the saucer protruding so far in front of the front landing struts. Not worrying about whether or not the struts would fail, how would Voyager keep from nose-diving into the ground in severe weather conditions. It's like designing a car and placing the front wheels where the front doors should be. It may look good on paper and even in the showroom, but on the streets...
+DeedsResearcher There's DVD =P But hey you've got those vintage commercials too lol What's interesting about the episode is how Janeway has this character conflict with the interest of her crew...whether they stay on New Earth or stay with Voyager...That brings in more complications like how would they be able to operate Voyager with a skeleton crew or something... But this was only a few episodes away when Tuvok trained Maquis crew as Starfleet cadets...Why couldn't they train people from New Earth to be Starfleet crew members? Now that could've been a "Novel" idea =p
+1BrknHrtdRomeo Actually, the answer to your question is really quite simple: The Prime Directive. Yes, the people are Human, of course. However, by this time they have their own culture, and have advanced at their own pace. To instantly transform a culture with new technology would violate the principle of the Prime Directive which states that we should not interfere in the natural development of any other culture. So, while your theory may have merit (and it does!), that would have to be a sufficient answer to this question. However, please feel free to write to the producers of the ST:Voyager series and ask them. I am sure they will have an answer that is...highly logical. Live long and Prosper.
DeedsResearcher Hhmm, good point! Actually that did bug me about the episode was whether or not the "Delta-Humans" developed warp technology. Sucks knowing now that maybe Janeway would've considered not helping them due to the Prime Directive =( Then again, we've witnessed time and time again how many Federation captains have "bent" the Prime Directive lol Still...for mankind? I'd like to think they left "Gigaquads" of information for the Delta-Humans to "Assimilate" lol Going with assumptions here but the thought of a Federation expanse going from Alpha->Beta->Delta is intriguing =D
....10,000kph descent speed. Uh... that's a bit FAST for entering atmo... Atmosphere is what, max 100 km deep, maybe 200 or something? Cover that distance in less than a second. Voyager just T-K Boundary-ed that planet. LOL.
NASA shuttles re entry speed was apparently 28,000 kph so Voyager was actually taking it quite slow. Friction from the atmosphere would probably be a bigger challenge but this is a universe where they can fly ships into stars.
@@danielkwillers yeah I guess you're right. Just checked a second time for shuttle reentry speeds: got a completely different number than when I posted that before. You're right: if anything they were coasting slower than the Shuttle does when it comes down.
Voyager uses anti-gravity systems to prevent this from happening. Why won't she hover on antigravs? It'll use too much energy, so landing entire ship and the supporting only the saucer section is more optimal.
But why would Voyager be top heavy? The warp core, engineering, the warp nacelles... all the heavy machinery is in the drive section. The saucer section is nothing but hollow decks, quarters and corridors in comparison.
I particularly do not like this possibility of seeing these large ships landing on planets, but I have always regarded the special case of Voyager, beacuse... - If you can teleport people... - if you can keep energy shields as physical protection... - if your ship feeds on antimatter... - if you navigate through very strong gravitational fields... - If you have Warp Technology... So landing a ship on the planet is not the hardest ... However I insist ... - The structural design adopted for this ship would not be appropriate for this type of landing - The survey of soil mechanics would have to be an absolute obligation - Take-off would require adequate propulsion systems. And after Voyager, we have worse: JJ.Abrahms ignored this physics and did worse in the new movies.
This is pretty much the only good part about this episode. The rest is almost too ridiculous and farfetched for words. Writers were really stretching it here, even by Voyager standards and that's saying something.
Agreed. _Well, whaddaya know? Sixty trillion trillion trillion trillion cubic miles in this galaxy and we just so happen to run into Amelia Earhart. What are the odds, amirite?_
[voyager lands, a groaning noise is heard as the ship keels forward and noseplants as the weight of the saucer sections tips it forward]
It’s center of mass might be farther back. I remember in Enterprise they mentioned the nacelles were made of osmium, so Voyager’s are probably also made of some similarly dense metal.
Yet the 1000 scale model from Polar Lights balances perfectly on the landing legs. See the details on Star Trek Model Kit Previews.
I’m sure if this was real… that the Starfleet engineers would have thought of all this.
@@steveleeart - But would that make for winning (if thoroughly uninformed) social media comments? 😜
...yaa , rookie , park that thing...
This is why I loved the show, having the ship land for the first time of any ST show was great. Just like back on STNG when they had the ship saparate into two parts. And we find out that the classic show ST also had that ability two but they never tried it shame.
i soo love blue alert, it was only seen like 3 times in the entire franchise. twice in voyager when it was going to land and once in TNG when the bridge lost life support
But it did mean changing the bulb.
@@ericstoverink6579Knew someone would mention Red Dwarf! 😂😂
In TOS, the ship could separate only as a last resort - the reintegration of the saucer and the engineering section was a major starbase job. The Galaxy-class was the first to be able to separate and reintegrate at will.
Just like separating the Enterprise D.This is something you do not see often.But its something!
A shame it was so expensive to do. Would've loved to see it done more often.
+donald Racette You are right. They actually landed the ship a few times in the series.
Brilliant that the makers had the foresight of versatility. THAT'S real cleverness.
Scott Fetterman same
truthhurts101 Actually it was hindsight, the Enterprise D saucer was supposed to be able to land but they didn't put them in so they crashed it in Generations
The real world reason for the transporters in the original series was to avoid the cost of filming a landing sequence. Several decades later, they come up with a reason to not use them so they have to land the ship.
Code Blue...are you sure?
It will mean we have to change the bulb.
Space Corps directive 34124?
I always wondered how they explained how a 700,000 ton ship was able to sit there on those relatively small landing struts without sinking. I don't think even bedrock would be able to hold that much weight in such a small surface. Maybe the structural integrity fields were routed through the feet to make the surface able to hold the weight?
+MiSt 526 Great hypothesis but I think it was Neelix's space cornbread, reinforced with Talaxian spices!
+MiSt 526 And what about weight distribution? Shouldn't the saucer be a lot heavier than the warp nacelles, and cause Voyager to tip forwards?
Well, I'm not sure if there's a definitive answer, but I would assume that the warp nacelles, core, and other engineering systems in the secondary hull would have more mass than the primary hull, which is mostly living spaces with some equipment thrown in. Also, some fans suggest that the gravity systems may remain active to elimanate most of the weight and that the landing struts just get enough weight on them to keep the ship from 'sliding' around on the surface. Either way, it would be bad news if you lost all power while landed since the full weight of the ship would certainly drive those struts into the ground and then 'pancake' the lower levels of the secondary hull before the pressure was distributed enough to support the rest of the ship.
+MiSt 526 No the blue screen pole is stuck right through the middle. That takes care of any weight issues:)
:)
Yeah, LAND the ship. Take that, transporters!!
the difference is that intrepid class ships like Voyager are actualy designed to land thanx to the adition of landing struts.
Sad transporter noises
Transporters still can take you far away on the surface in a hurry or beam you back in case of emergency.
Not many people realize but "blue alert" means the crew gets sad.
+351cleavland They play suddenly susan over and over on the view screens when its a blue alert:)
Ha ha ha it's actually a non-combat alert that there may be risk of personal injury. Which is pretty sad, after all.
They should have an alarm for Neelix's cooking.
Its a alert for docking or landing use,because it was also used in TSFS when Enterprise docked.
I could see Will Smith saying "I have got to get me one of these!
Just saying... For all who don't know this isn't normally standard procedure for most vessels... Because ships didn't have landing legs (unless i'm missing something)... Therefore I appreciate voyagers attempt at bringing a new feature to a new vessel good creativity in star-ship design we don't really see anymore... Here's hoping the Discovery has some kind of unique ability
Justin PLace spore drive was a lore breaking idea
@@Movie_Duels473 I bet the lore breaking idea of Spore Drive involved Black Aleart since the idea of the Landing Struts involved Blue Aleart.
@@Movie_Duels473 Time travel.
Why would the Discovery need to do anything special when Mikey Spock can do everything without help?
I think it had a mutant tartigrade as a taxi driver, like Rev. Jim Ignatowski but with suckers...
Brown Alert is only used taco night.
+grooveclubhouse With Neelix's cooking, it's explosive molten green.
Better not go to taco bell
Bungle2000000000 it's several steps up from Nelix
It was something to see... Voyager landing and cooling down for a moment.
The upcoming 1/1000 scale voyager model kit will come with the landing gear
And according to the Build Video on Star Trek Model Kit Previews, Voyager balances on the landing legs perfectly.
I love how Janeway trusts Tom's abilities in lying Voyager. I'd love to see these two as a couple!
There is the one episode no one talks about.
I bet they would have lovely, erm... Offspring
Could you imagine some poor bastard down in the lower levels, hears Tuvok say "We're landing the ship." I'd be like wtf are they doing up there?!
Wasn’t blue alert used in Star Trek 3 the search for Spock as well. During the automated space docking at the beginning.
I see you used a Maine potato for this video. Good call.
looks like VHS
It's no Idaho
Wow, recorded with Calculator?
This is a big advantage voyager has.
well since the USS Voyager is one of many Intrepid class ships
Damn, this is recorded with VHS and then digitized.
Very interesting
What is the year in that movie?
you know that trinimbic tubulence, it gets you every time, at least its not as bas as quadrotecnobabblimbic turbulence, that stuff is dangerous
Well played, Tuvok and Janeway! Subtle as ever as soon as Chakotay says "I could take a shuttle", he's on it like a shot with "Whoooa there horsey, I don't think so" and Janeway's straight in with "I'll risk all our lives rather than have you fly anything again... how many shuttles have you killed now?!"
Pffft they did a good job venting the nacelles!
Well now, most other ships of the distant past had their own landers. A separate landing vehicle. Talk about time saving
I forgot how bad this looked 25 years ago. now I remember
The Kazon had already managed to land Voyager by this point. If they could, Tom clearly gould.
Shame they didn’t do this more often
"That's alright Lt. neither have I"
Yeah, but you aren't the one being asked to put 700,000 metric tons of starship daintly onto a planetary surface!
37s, no apostrophe
Fifteen years. Damn.
"altitude 100 kilometres, speed 10,000KPH" I always felt this was wrong on two accounts
(a) American show, "Starfleet HQ" been in San Francisco would operate in MPH
(b) the Space shuttle lands at 364kph (226mph)
United Earth goes metric, a logic thing to do. Also, anti-gravitational devices and thrusters to reduce speed.
Blue Alert or Blue Light special Nelix is going shopping at K-Mart for new cook ware.
Well I did a little more looking into it. Most Trek websites I look at don't give much info, but I do know the Warp Coils are supposed to be the heaviest part of the ship. and there's a comment on "Demon - Landing Sequence" video that makes reference to using anti-grav generators to help out.
Red Alert, Yellow Alert...now Blue Alert and in a future episode...grey alert!
rather, Black Alert... xD
@@VipapkStudiosOfficial nah grey alert was low power mode black alert is spore drive
@@Groza_Dallocort What i meant was that the "new" alert is now a Black Alert
Same cliff the Jupiter 2 once crashed by?
It was from the trinimbic turbulance.
I got early to see that.
This got me thinking did Enterprise ever land the ship?
there was that time they hot droped the saucer section on veridian 3, but other than that i dont believe so.
Don't forget green alert - everything normal.
ATTENTION GREEN ALERT ATTENTION ATTENTION GREEN ALERT I REPEAT GREEN ALERT EVERYTHING IS FINE *LOUD BLARRING TUNE*
Why am I watching this in 2022
I presume that you like me (in 2023) started the special manouvers flightschool training program for an Intrepid class starship.
Out and in of Spacedock is easy compared to landing one. 😉
@@obelic71 you need to use commas, or I’m going to blush ☺️
Im actually curious is this is somthing only the Intrepid class can do, the other Starships dont looked designed to actually land
I'm not as versed in this as others in the fandom, but I think Voyager as an Intrepid class is the first ship shown in Star Trek shows that was actually small enough to land. Based on comparisons to other objects, I'm tempted to say that the Galaxy class Enterprise-D would be too large to put down on a planet without damaging the surroundings or the ship itself. Google says the Enterprise-D doesn't even have landing gear.
@@dahken417 100% agree Voyager i belive is a science type vessel so it makes sense it would be smaller and maybe be able to land if the need was there, where as the Galaxy class is about the size of a small city
I would bet Defiant (DS9) has the capability for a ground landing. After all, it is a tough little ship.
@@calkelpdiver Defiant was actually capable of atmospheric landing and fight. They just never used it.
you can say what you want about federation starships. but they sure are not designed to be aerodynamically stable while flying forward
You do not need aerodynamics in space...LOL
Voyager isn't as bad as other ships
For ship thats real far from home having afew officer onboard who has feel of landing and taking off from a planet will be for everyone onboard since they'll never when they may need to so again whatever reason.
+Jose Roman It's not that hard to do, in 'Basics' a Kazon was able to land the ship with not fuss and bother and he'd literally only been on board for a few minuets.
9 times the speed of light lol even at that speed which break the laws of physics you couldn't even cross over are own milky way gallexy in a entire life time.
Warp 9 isn't equal to 9c. That said, the Star Trek writers have always been extremely inconsistent with just how fast warp speeds were. In the semi recent Star Trek reboot, they were able to warp to Vulcan in mere minutes, when it probably should have taken a few days or so.
@@crucisnh
Bout a week or two at fairly high warp .
Its confusing now that they changed the scale but warp 9.975 which is voyagers maximum warp is about 3400c. Still takes decades to travel across the galaxy at that speed.
In enterprise it took them like a Month or more to get to Kronos at warp 4.5. Even at the enterprises top seed of warp 8 it would take a few days at least
Also as warp drive is described it doesn't break any physical laws that we know of. These is nothing preventing space itself expanding or contracting faster than light. An example of this being black holes contracting space faster than light within their event horizon.
Although current energy estimates using theoretical and possible impossible particles still require more energy than would be practically possible.
Can We Travel Faster Than Light? with Dr. Miguel Alcubierre th-cam.com/video/JafY92PhgKU/w-d-xo.html
Voyager keeps breaking the primary directive.
doesnt count if its to answer an SOS. For reason...
I agree. Voyager was answering a distress call, and Mr. Tuvok considered using the shuttlecraft was unwise because of the turbulence in the planet’s atmosphere , so landing Voyager was Captain Janeway’s only option.
No real technobabble. The weight of the Matter Storage Tanks, Antimatter Storage Tanks and the Warp Coils kept the ship from tipping nose first
10000 kph is Mach 8.
100km is Karman line on earth.
Warp 20in gauge
blue alert ^_^
I always disliked the idea of Voyager being capable of landing with the saucer protruding so far in front of the front landing struts. Not worrying about whether or not the struts would fail, how would Voyager keep from nose-diving into the ground in severe weather conditions. It's like designing a car and placing the front wheels where the front doors should be. It may look good on paper and even in the showroom, but on the streets...
Name of episode
+Kman314 The 37's S02E01
+RC2225 Correct. I have it on video tape, but have no idea how to load it to youtube. Such is life. But this was one of the really good episodes!
+DeedsResearcher There's DVD =P But hey you've got those vintage commercials too lol
What's interesting about the episode is how Janeway has this character conflict with the interest of her crew...whether they stay on New Earth or stay with Voyager...That brings in more complications like how would they be able to operate Voyager with a skeleton crew or something...
But this was only a few episodes away when Tuvok trained Maquis crew as Starfleet cadets...Why couldn't they train people from New Earth to be Starfleet crew members? Now that could've been a "Novel" idea =p
+1BrknHrtdRomeo Actually, the answer to your question is really quite simple: The Prime Directive. Yes, the people are Human, of course. However, by this time they have their own culture, and have advanced at their own pace. To instantly transform a culture with new technology would violate the principle of the Prime Directive which states that we should not interfere in the natural development of any other culture.
So, while your theory may have merit (and it does!), that would have to be a sufficient answer to this question. However, please feel free to write to the producers of the ST:Voyager series and ask them. I am sure they will have an answer that is...highly logical.
Live long and Prosper.
DeedsResearcher Hhmm, good point! Actually that did bug me about the episode was whether or not the "Delta-Humans" developed warp technology. Sucks knowing now that maybe Janeway would've considered not helping them due to the Prime Directive =( Then again, we've witnessed time and time again how many Federation captains have "bent" the Prime Directive lol
Still...for mankind? I'd like to think they left "Gigaquads" of information for the Delta-Humans to "Assimilate" lol Going with assumptions here but the thought of a Federation expanse going from Alpha->Beta->Delta is intriguing =D
240p, we meet again...
....10,000kph descent speed. Uh... that's a bit FAST for entering atmo... Atmosphere is what, max 100 km deep, maybe 200 or something? Cover that distance in less than a second. Voyager just T-K Boundary-ed that planet. LOL.
NASA shuttles re entry speed was apparently 28,000 kph so Voyager was actually taking it quite slow. Friction from the atmosphere would probably be a bigger challenge but this is a universe where they can fly ships into stars.
@@danielkwillers yeah I guess you're right. Just checked a second time for shuttle reentry speeds: got a completely different number than when I posted that before. You're right: if anything they were coasting slower than the Shuttle does when it comes down.
It looks to front heavy to land and not tip over.
Maintenance crew. Move all containers and furniture to the back of the ship
Condition Blue? I bet they had to change the lightbulbs for that one.
you would think in a real world gravity scinario a top heavy starship...especially a big headed snuby design like voyager...would tip forward
Voyager uses anti-gravity systems to prevent this from happening. Why won't she hover on antigravs? It'll use too much energy, so landing entire ship and the supporting only the saucer section is more optimal.
But why would Voyager be top heavy? The warp core, engineering, the warp nacelles... all the heavy machinery is in the drive section. The saucer section is nothing but hollow decks, quarters and corridors in comparison.
That would be more of a Red Dwarf thing I think, especially if "Rimmer" is landing the ship.
SMH, 25th century and still using the metric system (kph)
Why would they care about securing the thruster exhaust...... the planet's climate won't change with a bit of emissions..
Lmao that was awesome
Probably, to not damage the thrusters themselves or no to tip the ship over just after the touchdown.
Or to not have any personnel exiting the ship have to breath the thruster exhaust.
Trinimbic?! Voyager and its techno babble...
I particularly do not like this possibility of seeing these large ships landing on planets, but I have always regarded the special case of Voyager, beacuse...
- If you can teleport people...
- if you can keep energy shields as physical protection...
- if your ship feeds on antimatter...
- if you navigate through very strong gravitational fields...
- If you have Warp Technology...
So landing a ship on the planet is not the hardest ...
However I insist ...
- The structural design adopted for this ship would not be appropriate for this type of landing
- The survey of soil mechanics would have to be an absolute obligation
- Take-off would require adequate propulsion systems.
And after Voyager, we have worse: JJ.Abrahms ignored this physics and did worse in the new movies.
The atmosphere is full of made up bs, let’s land the bloody starship instead lol, the 37s I think this episode is called…
Man, Voyager really was crap. Even some wind shear can make something on the bridge explode for no reason...
The she wolfe Janeway is willing to endanger the entire ship to land a to explore a 'distress signal' that could be a fake, a trap or whatever.
This is pretty much the only good part about this episode. The rest is almost too ridiculous and farfetched for words. Writers were really stretching it here, even by Voyager standards and that's saying something.
Agreed. _Well, whaddaya know? Sixty trillion trillion trillion trillion cubic miles in this galaxy and we just so happen to run into Amelia Earhart. What are the odds, amirite?_
15 years and still not deleted, so crappy