Heavy Metal Removal in the Lion Lathe, Making a Roller Stub Shaft From Solid 8" Stock, Big Chips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2022
- This roller has been a constant source of frustration over the years. As they keep failing in the exact same way, no matter what we attempt to try differently. This time, I am going to eliminate the possibility of it being weld stress by making the stub shaft completely solid.
My customer has also adjusted their equipment hoping that may help with the problem, as it is always the same end that is being broken.
Watch as I take some seriously heavy cuts to get down to the sizes I need to make this roller. Truely a heavy metal removal job, something I have become quite familiar with.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work as well as the sawmill we built in the shop and our A.D. Baker steam engine, and others we work on.
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Nice work. Keep the chip breaking into those C curls. I'm an old manual and CNC hand myself . Always glad to see someone who knows manual machining. We are a dying breed.
Freehand inside radius. Love it.
I lived in Spooner when I was a kid in the 1950s and one time it snowed in the middle of May and was cold, really cold, on my birthday. The snow stayed on the ground for a couple of days.We usually had a picnic down at the Conservation Station in town on the last day of grade school. That year we all wore our parkas to school and ate our sandwiches in the classroom at Hammil School. I am 76 years old and appreciated your comment about the old. worn out Johnson- band saw that is.
I was a mechanic on forklifts for 50+ years and worked for Clark Equipment for 20+ that old Clark Clipper you own brings back a lot of memories, I used to rebuild those Continental engines and even completely refurbished the whole machine, I was in my 20s-40s a lot of work ,the forklifts switched over to,electric and worked on them intill I was 65 , now retired!
That chip pile was insane! You’re drowning in Blue Chips!
Love your work Josh, looks like the final shaft should be a little bigger for that size roller, just saying...
Even on heavy cuts, your lathe SOUNDS good!
Great work! Absolutely love machine work!
I was taught to use a four jaw chuck on mill finish products, keep your three jaw for finished surface
Really impressive. Thank you for sharing.
Persistence pays off - thanks for sharing
lollollol....."Not bad for an old worn out Johnson". I find myself saying that exact same thing a couple of times a month.
All old worn out Johnsons could use a little support. OK how many bad dad jokes can we make?
I enjoy watching some heavy turning with big chips. I’m not a machinist by trade. I’m a heavy duty mechanic. I do have a small hobby lathe I picked up used a couple years ago. I have a little fun with it from time to time when I need to turn a little something. So watching you pros whit big machines is enjoyable 👍 cool video
Love your videos man. Great education. I do have a safety tip though, please put on short sleeve shirts while running the lathe. One of your sleeves could get caught in the chuck and we won’t have you making these cool videos anymore. Thanks for another good one.
Great Video Josh that was great seeing the new lathe in action it can definitely take a big cut with that insert !!!! It’s always interesting getting to know a new machine and see what it likes and finding the sweet spot !!! Looking forward to future videos !! Keep up the good work and great content!!
Get it done right the first time!!!! Truer words were never spoken!!!
...that's hard to live up to...
Top notch episode. Thanks for keeping us informed about speeds and feeds.
Keep the feed enough to break the chip, especially with insert drills.
Great video I really enjoyed watching this project, thanks. The heavy metal removal was cool to watch and the chip were incredible
Video looked and sounded great. Enjoyed the content.
really like your videos mate, please keep them coming!
Excellent video, very enjoyable. Thanks a lot love the new lathe
Good stuff Josh
Good Job!!!!!!
Great video👍
Well, I’ll be dog-gone! Learn a new trick every day!! Makes my week to learn a new thing.
That is one well maintained and good looking lathe.
Thanks for upgrading your lightning, much better videos now. ✌️
Actually I haven't upgraded the lighting yet. It's on order. Just better camera settings. Thanks for watching
Nice chips!
Perfect
Nice work Josh.
The Lion lathe is a hoss.
Very heavy duty.
Nice to have Nice equipment.
Thank you, EM.
Now that's some impressive chips, great video Josh, keep'um coming.
Made plenty of those rolls for McDonough rollcases. Always ran the shaft all the way through. Taper lock with a weld on hub worked very well on shorter( 4' or so rolls). Must be a metric bearing with the odd sized dimension ( close but larger than 1-15/16"). As for the weather, 4-5 years ago we had over 3' of snow and cold on tax weekend in the Stevens point area.
Love those chips, that Lion is impressive.
Those were some nice chips. That was fun to watch.
I would agree that is a nice saw.
Thanks, Enjoyed the video and humor, Home shop machinist here.later from Hot Texas.
Absolutely wonderful work Josh, love the channel, the shop, the content, and your presentation style. To help with some of the flicker on your slow motion shots make sure your fps and shutter speeds are set to a multiple of 60 - Thanks so much for all you are teaching us!
I'm using the GoPro at 240fps. Not sure what is going on, but will keep working on it. Thanks for the kind words.
hey Josh,enjoy watching you work and I also watch Curtis,you both are quite accomplished machinery operators love the work you both do,then there's Abom 79,all great to watch.
great job on all your video i really enjoy watching them
I plan on going on the train that you work thank you
В этот раз качество видео было намного лучше чем раньше ,спасибо ! И токарный станок действительно очень крутой💪
G Morning Josh,
Weather here in Northern NY sucks too....snowed 2x last week, still a cpl of snowbanks hanging on.....ABSOLUTELY LOVE your new Lion lathe.....my PM 1440GT is a light weight compared to yours, but does serve all my needs. Slugging that roller with the solid stub shaft looks like it will more than fit the bill. Just too bad you dont have the freeze fit capability a la Kurtis @ CEE Australia. Excellent content and skills in filming and production above and beyond the machining. Keep up the great work.
Good
Hi Josh, I've just come across your channel and enjoying your back catalogue, some big stuff going on there. When I was doing my apprenticeship ( in a coal mine) we had a compressor that was rated a 6500 CFM, 4 of them actually, 2 on duty, 1 on standby and the other in maintence. Each of them was as big as a house so I had a little chuckle about your fan being rated at 3000 cfm. Looking forward to going through your videos.
Those had to be awesome compressors. Big difference in CFM when you consider pressures, if you don't factor that in it seems way off. My bathroom fan is 145 CFM and my trailer air compressor is 60 CFM, yet totally different outputs. I'm glad you found my channel. I hope you enjoy the old stuff. The new stuff is getting way better with every video.
a1 bud on your camea angles and shots. you are a really good down to earth good gye machinist and i really love your channel being a home hobby machinist with a 14x40 precision lathe and a 9x49 bridgport mill and a 6x12 harig surface grinder and all the stuff to go with machining at a home leval basis. thanks josh thumbs up to you and your channell.
I also sometimes use my Johnson outdoors.
Nice chips
Lovely color on those chips. Putting the heat where it's best to put it, in the chips.
My first thoughts are that the design is faulty. For an 8 inch roller you should have 8 inch bearings. Trying to use 2 inch bearings increases the loads by 4 to 1.
Liking your videos and camera shots are just great. That cutter sure can carve off some metal in a pass. Thanks for the video.
I could have used a different tool. I was cutting good, but it definitely could have been better. I could have been able to take almost an inch total with the right tool. Thanks for watching.
Good one Josh . The new lathe seems to be doing it's thing fine . I would fit a larger size coolant pipe for a higher flow of sud's to keep that smoke down . 👍
It's performing better than I had hoped. I don't think more coolant would curb that smoke. A lot of heat coming out of those chips.
Nice chips. You should play a heavy metal song like that Kennametal ad that shows up all the time. :)
I was making and balancing rollers 60 years ago.
I'd have made a push in piece about 4 inchs long with one side turned to the stub shaft sizes.
Then I'd weld the 4inch end into the tube and drill about four 1 inch holes round the tube to fill with weld to ensure the piece didn't flex and loosen.
I had this discussion with the customer. They didn't want it done that way, that is why I did it the way I did. Do what the customer wants, not what you know is right. Thanks for the input.
@@TopperMachineLLC I went into Time and Motion and was amazed at how fiercely so many people ignored what was best to what they knew!
We made rollers nearly the same size as yours , only difference we never welded the shaft on outside plug. Never had a problem . carried one ton plus fabric.
This one is the idler for a steel screen, about 300' long. I think they said it was 3-4 tons. I hope this is the cure.
I seem to remember a long time ago a tool company came to us to test out the new ceramic inserts. The cutting came off just like butter scrapings, more to the point though all the heat was contained in the cuttings, quite remarkable even cutting very heavy cuts the job still remained cool. I caring help wondering if such inserts are availed today
,
Great job Josh really enjoyed the video. Had a crane for the mill and large. Someone broke into our shop and stole our Yale and tools boxes also
Hi Josh, the video is looking good and the new lathe is cutting with ease. For big turning jobs you could use a chip conveyer. LOL Have a great weekend.
First, nice job josh as usual. You have popped up on the scene and are becoming one of my favorite channel. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you. I never imagined this would take off and get popular. Something I never was in highschool. Lol.
Steel isn't getting any lighter 😕, yes looking forward to seeing your take on a machine part crane?
New lathe working very well, long may it reign 🦁.
Interesting failure mode on rolller stub shaft, I assume the bearings are a self aligning type?
Great work, and better photography Josh. Thanks for sharing 👍
I ordered a rolling gantry since I'm struggling to get free time. Been crazy busy this year.
I got an old johnson too.
Thrilled to see you take out your Johnson. It is impressive and should be taken out regularly for sure.
awesome video Josh! Film quality really increased!
24:22 POWAAAAH!
maybe a chip of the week candidate?
cheers,
Leo
This is like a more sophisticated red green show
Nice job. All you need are a couple steel ducks, they love chips.
👍👍👍
Watching on 6th May 8pm first cool night here mid north coast of NSW Australia 11c
We are finally getting above 50 during the day here. Been ridiculous trying to get outside time.
Just seeing this , from the picture the failure was a stress fracture , the usual way of doing this is to use a length of round bar axle the right diameter through a plate with a length of axle inside to a plate so there is no weld at the stress point it's inside the drum , it's how roller shutter rollers are made and the ends don't drop off them
Welding & machine shop I worked at in high school 72-74. By my senior year the bios was sending me out on jobs alone. He had came across a scrap metal dealer that made him a heck of a deal in some 4” diameter cold rolled steel PRE-WWII that he had already bid on and was awarded a job that our machinist needed the steel to complete. The bar was the main upper drive for a sawmill built some time after WWI. THE ROUND STOCKBWAS ANOUT 25 ft in the overhead and the floor a dirt floor was littered with sharp sections of angle iron, I beamChannel and other sharp angle cuts of various pieces of steel sharp ends up. There was about 2.5-3 ft between the roof rafters the pillar block bearings and the roof. And, to top it off the under roof area had hornet nests the size of huge beagles with hundreds if not thousands of huge orange and brown hornets buzzing about. It was the middle of a hot Mississippi summer and all of the ceiling planking was largely rotten so I could only safely step and stand on joists areas which I had to find through about 1-2” of sawdust and dirt dust. The round stock had about 10-12 huge pillar blocks and 4-6, 1-1.5 ft diameter 3-4” wide old cast iron pulley wheels for leather drive belts. The boss had told me do MOT cut the round stick which was about 25ft long. Well I got the rose bud and cutting torch head and pulled about 75 ft of the oxy actyl hose out to get to the overhead that was as close as I could get the truck and trailer to the job. There wasn’t a single can of penetrating spray or wasp and hornet spray in the truck. So I headed to the business office to see if they had any wasp and hornet spray I could have or buy from them, nope. You got a water hose I can pull up there with me to put out any smsust and sawdust fires that started or do you care if a fire starts and the old building burns, no to the water house, yes to caring if the building burned as he had also sold the shiplap and tongue and groove 109 year old virgin heart wood cypress to someone else. So I went back up to heat the nuts and bolts on the bearing caps to try and get them free to lift the shaft out to what I don’t know as there was nothing yo rig to that wasn’t rotten in the roof itself. While heating the nuts in the bearing caps I was continuously having to roast hornets that were getting entirely too interested and too close to me and stopping to snuff out fires. So I rolled up my oxy actyl hose and head back to the shop to tell the boss. He called me a few insulting name then I asked had he went and looked where the round bar was and no ability to rig to anything. He said no, I said well you need to go look. He called me a few more insulting names and said I just get the other crew to go get it. I heard him tell them not to cut the bar as he needed the full length uncut. Well a few hours passed before the other crew a welder and his helper pulled up to the shop and the boss said you get it he said yeah but we damn near burned the building down and the scrap yard owner was pissed. About that time the boss headed to the trailer to see the prize purchase and find it in 3-4 ft lengths. He went ballastic and other than knowing he suffered from high blood pressure it was s as l most comical as that welder told him the same thing I had told him to include that he would need to hire a small crane or trackhoe and coordinate with the man that was buying the lumber from the building and wait until he disassembled the rotten roof and use the crane or track how to lift the bar and the flat pulleys probably near or exceeding 2 tons from the ceiling it was mounted on to get it in one piece. The welder was not neatly as easy going about the bosses insults that he threw at me as I was as a teenager. 25-30 ft of cold rolled 4” pre-WWII sterl bar he needed in one piece that was brought back in 3-4 lengths. LOL.
I hope you're able to document your crane as I am going to be doing one in the next 8 to 10 months and any inside information would be greatly appreciated great content
Actually I ordered one as I'm running out of free time for these projects.
Did you really cut .50 per pass, I'm impressed.
That Johnson is a work horse. I used one for twenty years with no problems. The only things we ever changed was the fluid and blades.
Same here. I have no idea how much steel this thing has cut.
Great work, buddy. In my opinion, if room available I'd go for 4" split bearings so much stress in a short space.
Wow, that was some incredible chip making!!! :))) I wonder what the tool tip pressure had to be….
7:32 Tappity, tap, whacking the tube 90 degrees from the pinch points can distort the tube enough to free the core... when it feels like cooperating.
Love seeing the new lathe in action
Can I make one suggestion, it would appear to me that if the part is not failing where its been welded or joined to the tube the problem is the shaft is too thin where it runs in the bearing and it needs to have a larger diameter with larger bearings, just my 2 cents
Thanks again
They have been failing everywhere. Not just the shaft. The last one I did is working great so far, but they adjusted everything in the system. It's always been one end. By going solid, we are hoping to rule out weld fatigue. Unfortunately they can't increase the bearing size. I suggested that the first time. There is one more method to try that I was just made aware of by a friend. He had a similar situation and finally came up with a solution that works. So if it fails again, that will be the route to go.
@@TopperMachineLLC seems to me the roller large diameter is to far away from the bearing.
@@imysteryman I agree, but I have to make it to the specs the customer wants.
That’s where Keith Fenner’s chickens went!
Man that Lion lathe sure can hog through that material!!
take a piece of shim stock and cut out a H in the middle of it,your chips will fall in the pan instead of the floor, the top f the h you will be able to see your part take it on and off as you please thats one tip for you,the second tip i have is never use your hands i dont think they are really shaving hooks ,i had to fast foward the video because i didnt want to see you cut a finger off, the tip of my thumb never grew back if that tell you anything
G’day mate just an idea for the crane jib I would sling the winch to that till I could get the overhead crane going
Be careful with sparks with the rust inside the rollers
I know of a paper mill that had a rust dust explosion on a roller during a repair. Dude had career ending injuries glad to see you using coolant when cutting
I know the feeling. My Johnson is worn out too.
Nothing worse than a worn Johnson it suck's being a old Machinist
That cut would scare the man from Down Under!!. Blue #6 chips is a heavy chip,no steelwool allowed!
When I was learning to be a machinist it was said you should never chuck rough stock in a three jaw chuck it would damage the accuracy of the three jaw scroll .you should always first turn rough diameter stock in a four jaw chuck?
Times have chanhed. Chucks are better made those days
The weather sure is crazy lately. Here in Australia, we've just had the wettest summer in decades, with severe flooding in the Eastern states. A couple of years ago, it was a bad drought, with terrible wildfires. Who knows what will come next. There's no stability anymore. Hope your weather warms up for you soon.
Today was the second warm day. Last night we were ordered a total fire ban. Not even a campfire. It is so dry and windy that forest fires could easily happen. So, now I can't even play with my steam engine. 😭
Nice work ! I am a retired engineer my first thought when you were explaining the failures and the period between them was “ the roller is flexing and causing stresses concentrated at the shaft to vertical intersection”? You were way ahead of me , next is see how long it lasts with the cone to distribute those loads across from roller to bearing? The next question is now the bearing is going to have more load if the shaft is more ridged ? You may want to advise them to replace the bearings and monitor the temperature?
My thoughts were that there was a sharp corner where stress would be concentrated. A generous radius with a very fine finish would prevent the propagation of surface cracks leading to failure.
I’d hate to have one of those chips go gown the front of my shirt. There’d be some kind of dancing around and yelling going on!
This is the exact reason I don't fuck in my shirt and wear long sleeves. I will address this issue in an upcoming video.
I’m hoping that your reply contains a typo because, if not, that is way more info than necessary!
Dat dare shaft is like dem dose Johnny Wankle rods.
railroad jacks used them for lot of odds and ends
Hey Josh don’t be worrying all seems good sir! Golden videos of the one’s that I’ve watched keep this sh1t up sir!💯👈🏻🇬🇧
April,when do B adgers come out of hibernation? You do nice work!
Did you try c1045 it works well and if you weld on it post heat it after it colder off up to around 450f
I figured to make comment. This is Keith from Michigan, living near Holland. Yep we get weird weather, friend. The lake does some very interesting things. I ran into you, anyway I was interested to see turning this 8" stock. I've been around the machine field 44yrs, I wanted to apply my career and put a Lathe in the basement, as a hobby. In meantime, send a quick response, thanks...
Hi, the lake effect doesn't quite hit us. About 30 miles north and you really see it. Funny when I drive to superior, about Solon Springs the temp will drop about 20 degrees.
After watching ABOM79....i ordered the iscar LNMX 110408R-HT toolholders for Right hand and Left hand turning from MSC....I can easily take .200 to .250 which is .400 to .500 off the diameter in my Lodge and Shipley Power Turn and the chip formation is AWESOME i Suggest you try them for your heavy turning you will love them!!
I will look into them. Mostly for heavy roughing I would use a CNMG 644-645, but didn't have any at the moment. Those should take better than .500 per side.
@@TopperMachineLLC ive already taken .750 a side thats 1 1/2 off the diameter in one pass but theres no need to push a machine that hard as a few smaller passes will do the same purpose without wearing on the machine 😁
@@richardsedenquist3222 I agree, but those big cuts make good viewing.
Would they be anyway you could use bigger bearings so you could make the shat bigger
I thought for a moment that the roller was a solid piece and heavy.
I may be wrong, but that seems like a ton of money just to put a shaft in something. Way back, when we made big augers,, like 18" diameter on flights by 20 foot long, we did them in 3 pieces minus the flights. The tube the flights got welded to, a big sleeve that went in the end of tube, then a shaft that went into the sleeve, then it was all face welded. The sleeve, was just a thick walled tube they happened to find was like a .003" press fit. With that sleeve, we just had to bore it out to large diameter of shaft, if i remember right, about 5.25" in diameter. I think it was 10" long. The shaft that went into tube was obviously 10" long but hung out for the bearing another 10" or so, bearing side diameter of shaft I think was a tick over 2". When shaft wore or broke, mostly wore out as it was over 3800 pounds, we cut the welds, pulled the shaft, made a new one, slid back in, welded and back out the door. They really thought about any easy way of replacement when it happened, and lasted for some time.
Hazy shop means your making money faster you remove metal the more money you make thats what i was told during my apprenticeship.
This is just my opinion, but ...
Camera angles, close ups, even picture quality, all take a back seat to instructional style.
If your "show" was a class in school, would students eagerly anticipate the next session?
For me, and subscribers like me, attitude is a bigger component than accomplishment, and is why I subscribe to those "big name" channels that I do (and not the ones I've dropped). Even more so, it's why I follow many smaller channels.
“Not bad for an old worn out johson” -NOT my wife, ever. 🤣
That’s beautiful old saw. Well, looks old to me at least. Love those old machines. They just aren’t made anymore. It’s all Chineeesium nowadays. Aka JUNK.
Josh I have one small comment, at the 11:30 minute mark the rear roller (of the steady rest) is not touching the work.
You best go back and have another look and this listen to what Josh has to say this time. 🇦🇺