Turning a Solid Steel Bar into a Part - Heavy Metal Removal on the Lathe - Manual Machining
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2023
- This 10 Inch diameter bar of 1045 Steel is being turned down for a stub shaft. From 10" to 1 15/16" diameter. That is a lot of metal being removed.
The last few years, I have been seeing more engineers designing parts like this, instead of using a 2 piece design. What works for some, doesn't work for others.
As this is the part number 3 for this customer of this design, I am sure it is working out well for them. The first 2 have been operating in daily service, under harsh conditions, with no signs of failure like the 2 piece designs did.
As this is a prototype, or rather, the 3rd test batch, I can not show the whole job. The customer specified what they want filmed, and what they don't. It is a small price to pay to be able to continue making these videos. I hope you all can understand. I wish I could show more.
Topper Machine LLC is an entirely manual machine shop located in Spooner, WI. Our videos will highlight some of our shop work.
Thank you for watching!
Please Like, Subscribe, & Share.
toppermachine.com
For Official Topper Machine LLC merchandise, check out our Teespring shop.
toppermachinellc.creator-spri...
Support our channel, Paypal donations are greatly appreciated.
www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_...
#machineshop #machinistlife #manualmachinist - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I appreciate that a turned one piece will be stronger, but I wonder why no radi were called for at the transitions - particularly at the shaft to flange, big stress raiser there?
I wondered that too, but not my design or choice.
Exactly. Just another good point that proves the ones who came up with this don't know their basics.
@@bigbattenberg 100%. This is absolutely a brand new engineer that doesn't have a clue what they're doing.
Dumb engineering that doesn’t understand what they are making. I have designed similar stub shafts and always leave a generous radius
@@TopperMachineLLC Still curious about the total time to hog that much off. Similar to welding where you take and make all the right fit ups for the thickness involve then have to feed three hundred 1/8 rods into the vee. I did this as a novice and always wondered how much time it should be taking. I noticed you let it cool off when approaching final dims. Then used a trial finish cut then measure it to closely match your dimension. I also like the fact that you did not make a center but used a center plate and relied on it to not shift thru out the process. I would have made a center hole and ran the live center into it and reef down on tailstock so it would not move. Good job.
Great video!
Every time I watch a “shafty flangey” turning job where typically 90% of the starting round bar has to turn to chips, I think about the business opportunity in the steel industry to supply shafty-flangey blanks. It would not be trivial - there are four parameters needed to specify a shafty-flangey blank, so you can’t just brute force it. But the potential reduction of waste is so big that I feel there must be an opportunity there.
Great video - the intro was a milestone in artistic creativity, revealing your inner Tarantino; more of this please ! Good stuff.
Thanks. I wanted to do something different
Opening made me smile.
Had he crushed the coke can and made it splash blood everywhere, they you could call it a true Tarantino
@@insaneindamembrane7961 look closer. That's not Coke.
AGREE! Very cool intro with that big honkin' piece of steel rolling along! Reminds me of "as the Army goes rolling along!"
Make a trepanning tool ( long tube with carbide cutters at the end) so you can save the outside material as a tube after running a cut to leave the bottom plate attached. I do not like wasting material into chips even if the customer paid for that material 🙏 that is a ton of material wasted there in this operation 🤔 oh, and you save time cutting once and parting once, then clean up to size.
Should be super easy with a lathe of that caliber 👍
Kind of had that tumbleweed Western feel to the start. Just missing the appropriate music but this video went ahead and made my day.
A single solid peace is always going to be stronger than two welded together, = fewer failures, longer life of the part and less down time. I figured the yt police would chime in on this one so straight to the comments and they did not disappoint lol Thanks for sharing.👍
Loads of stupid comments on this video. All of them entertaining, none of them have a clue. LOL
"none of them have a clue" as in zero understanding 😞
All comments are grist for the algorithm mill. Never discourage engagement.
Fairly sure a forging is stronger, ref flow lines.
@@bostedtap8399 Yes a proper forging would be stronger. It is probably real close to a wash as to the cost of material versus having a forging made.
Very nice lathe ya got there...she definitely has guts...that rapid traverse is a nice feature too, and as for the setup, I've been doing it that way for decades as well. Thanks for sharing.
That's my favorite lathe of all the channels I watch. Beautiful unit.
Phenomenal - I love seeing real machining like this, heavy cuts and proper chip formation, with resulting excellent finish. 👍
Always fascinated by your work! Thanks!
Great video as always Josh, I especially like the intro, thank you for uploading! 👍👍
Hi back in 1979 I was a Forman for Celmar a very large moving shop we made things for the government some I wasn't allowed to even talk about. But we had a giant lathe about 60" x 80' came from their navy shop that made propeller shafts . Well I had her spitting 3/4" chips with high speed tooling. Start one cut and run a ten hour shift to be close to the end of cut.
I had the set ups for the men then they operated them. Your big chip cuts reminded me . Great company to work for too. Six months there and I became a quadraperectic ROM a dont r cutting exploring my spine. They waned me back but I couldn't do my job. We had planer mills a vbm with 12' table and sunk to floor level and its own extra high roof cut in. Abot 35' tall columns my specialty the big jobs. Used forklift and sledge hammers to set up parts. Oh I was big and super strong not bragging ..
JOBBING SHOP I HATE SPELL CK. CHANGES WORDS TO ITS OWN THINKING.!!!!
@@silverbullet7434 Spiel chucker hand auto collect guts my gloat two! :-)))
...IF YOU SAY SO...
That’s going to be super strong! Thanks for sharing what you could.
Lovely honest job as always Josh thanks for sharing buddy 👍
Many years ago I had a customer who made drive components and the method they used was start with a solid blank anc using a modified band saw make 6 cuts lengthways and 6 cuts around the bar , this reduced the diameter to a hex slightly more than the finished size , they said it reduced the time by 80 percent , their one had spines on the small end and a bolted flange for a Donut on the large end
Most three jaw chucks can be dialed in as well.. and it’s faster than a 4 jaw.. people just like to jump on bandwagons .. you know ur job.. you got this
I spent 25+ years in jobber machining, single piece, either OEM replacement parts no longer available or outsourcing new parts were to long of a wait, or the custom part for prototyping/ proof of concept type pieces. Lathe was my favorite machine in the shop with portable line bore my second. You have a new subscriber sir, like your thinking and approach to your work, thanks for the tag along video, BTW, Scout crafter recommended your channel.
Very impressive. And the amount of chips too.
Lot of chips, better a winter job, heat the shop. Fully understandable on using stock, ref prototype.
Always great to tune in speeds and feeds on a big job.
Thanks for sharing Josh.
Perfect example of where a trepanning tool would be a huge improvement. A LOT less material wasted and probably quicker also.
Keep the videos coming Josh.
Joe
Interesting comment.
Was thinking the same, loved to watch David Wilks videos on those large trepanning jobs
Would you then trepan to a certain depth and part off the trepanned section?
@@bigbattenberg
Yes you could.
Joe
Unfortunately the low volume doesn't warrant the tooling investment.
Wow ! Great work
That’s pretty wild cutting it down to less than two thirds of the original size lol but yeah I’m sure the engineer had a good reason to not weld it as two pieces great work man thanks for sharing
New engineer that's never seen a screwdriver. This smells of inexperience.
I stated in the video, I have seen way more designs like this the last couple years. Most from very large corporations with teams of engineers. There must be a good reason that none of us are aware of.
@@TopperMachineLLC I am not so sure about that. Yet, if i were to speak in defense of this i would say that a weld could introduce human error in the connection of the two pieces whereas a solid piece is simply a solid piece
I am wondering if trepanning would have been a viable alternative. Less waste, less wear and tear on the machinery and a piece of metal for possible future use.
@@Watchyn_Yarwoodor in the good old days it might have been hammer forged to save material, hourly rates being cheaper than metal.
Good video. Beautiful lathe.
Well done, that was very satisfying 👍😊👍.
Great video Josh, that intro was something special.
I'm always amazed at how something seemingly round isn't round at all
Yeah thanks for sharing Topper
I love the introduction; very creative. I do not know a good chip from a bad one. That crane sure has made lifting easier. Holy smokes.............filled the entire shop. That was a lot of material to remove but you did it. I am sure that it took a lot of time. I am surprised that your cutter held up. Thanks for the video. You did a nice job on the video and the part.
The good chips should be yellow or blue in colour, as it means that they are taking the heat away from the part(in steel that is), and the shape should be 6`s or 9`s or C`s and S`s, as his were, if they are coming off in those small diced curly bits, its great... Of course, if you dont have coloured chips, it just means that the tool and the lathe arent working at optimal efficiency that carbide can allow for, which means shorter work time for you... The chips in most other materials have their own properties, and the colour should not be considered as an indicator of how effectively you are using the machine... The most important part is the size or better yet, the shape... As long as chips break off in bits of 2-12mm or so, you are having a good chip control... If the chips arent breaking but are curling or making whatever other shape, then you have a potential for surface finish ruination, for jamming, for cutter damage, for injuries to yourself, as that mess can just ``explode`` if caught by the chuck jaw and launch a razor necklace at your body, or it can catch and whip about and shred you like butter or pull you in if it catches you, and then you are done for, or in the best scenario, it can just spit out a mess of sharp ``wire`` at you which will land on your clothes harmlessly... You have seen how the chips here look, the size is less relevant and dependent on the cut depth, it just matters that they look somewhat like these ones here in form... All other factors are case dependent.... And some metals dont even allow the chips to carry the heat away, so even that part of the stated above is case dependent, but such metals and alloys are rare... Generally speaking... Even those curly 3-5cm chips are fine, as they break off rather quickly and arent a hazard generally speaking... One could even say that they are preferable, as they are heavier and fall closer to the lathe, making less mess overall... As long as they break off into nice manageable bits, its a good chip...
@@camillosteuss
Thanks😲😲😲. I worked in a small steel fab shop as a laser operator, button pusher, for many years but I know nothing about a machine shop. I have a small CNC plasma cutter but there is something wrong with the software. I make some metal art. I had a home business but COVID shut me down. I am glad that God blessed you with greater skills than mine.
@@alanm3438 Its beautiful that you refer to it as metal art... I do too, but skill-wise, nah, im no master, im a lover of machines, and was learning all i could about machinery and adjacent fields and topics for last 15 years, on my own... Sure, i enrolled a mechatronics school to get some related diploma, but i was a gymnasium-agronomy college student when i was learning about machines... I never expected to own a single machine, but i do now, 12 of them...
Skill is not learned, its acquired via practice, and while the theory is a great tool, its mostly what i have... I picked up mostly used machines in need of restoration, and that is what im doing atm... Sure, i have a few machines that work, so i am gaining skill, but i am mostly an apprentice in skill level, despite maybe being able to teach manual machining theory in school...
I am great at tig welding for a self taught ``artist``, but my approach to machining is slow and steady, not only because machines should be used with care and love, but because i lack the skill to assume the deflection and all other factors that happen during machining, at least accurately to a toolmaker`s level...
Dont demean yourself, and dont lament the loss of business... Restart it slowly, find things you can make and market online with love and surety of quality... Even if its a side job and something that merely drips in here and again... It will get better over time, and you will refine your catalog of products in accordance with your tools and with what is sought after by the public and is in your work range at the moment...
Speaking of God given blessings, the good book teaches that God has only one son, which means that all of his creation is his one son, endowed with same attributes, as otherwise they would not be describable as a singular perfect extension of the will of God... If you love this field as much as i do, all the talents that i have are yours aswell, you just need be open to them and willing to learn how to reveal them...
I was amazed at robin renz and people like that, but now i see that i can do the same, even if at a slower pace at the moment...
If all is spirit, or as scientists would call it energy, then all has the identical potential and source with which all is one, and if you know of the dual nature of matter, which renders it apparently a particle, while its in fact a wave, you know that there is almost no difference in what science and religions teach, so dont ever falter and be downcast... Your love and devotion to the art of anything can not go without flourishing into an approximation of perfection... As much as matter is capable of manifesting perfection...
All the best, and kindest regards!
Steuss
That first pass was really nice, good cutter.
Love the intro rolling machine!
The Lyon did a fine job…
All that work for a hamburger press lol 😂
Great vid JT
Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Give the customer what they want, it’s that simple.🇦🇺
Mostly, yes. But if the customer doesn't know the options and you're the professional, then you should know better. Or at least, you might know better.
Don't argue with your customer, but if you can save them time and money, they will be return customers and free salesman on your behalf.
Great video and work. Loved the intro.
I would put that opening up against This Old Tony’s best !
MR TOPPLER, THANKS FOR THE GREAT VIDEO. TIRED OF READING ALL THESE PEOPLE SAYING DUMB, ETC. YOU DID IT RIGHT. THIS IS WHAT THE CONSUMER WANTED. THAT IS WHAT YOU DID. THAT'S GOOD WORK. AND YOU WILL GET MORE BUISNESSES BECAUSE OF IT. THANK YOU FOR THE GREAT VIDEO.
Really nice machine work , big chips . You know your lathe capabilities and what you can do . Really nice finished product . Sure did sling the chips everywhere . Great video .
I could have pushed much harder, but I risk shorter tool life. As it was, it handled it great
wonderful, thanks. a bunch for sharing, Paul in Florida
Sandvik CNMG inserts are the best in my opinion. They take a lot of abuse and keep a good edge longer than most. You get what you pay for is absolutely true in turning/milling tools.
Nice to have a variety of inserts from around the world.
These are by far my favorite, but I use many different styles and brands.
@@TopperMachineLLC gc4320?
I mean, sandvik is just a brand. Entirely depends on your grade.
Have you ever tried Kennametal Fix Perfect? Thats an insert that can take abuse and it has 8 cutting edges. Grind a negative cuttinge edge on it and will even cut through 2mm surface harden 54HRC in one go, something i would never try with a CNMG insert.
You are a very good machinst !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This reminds me of the what distinguishes a whittler from a wood carver. No matter what size log a whittler starts with, the ultimate goal is to produce a toothpick. 😀
Great machine and great man👍👍👍
Nice work 👍
Loved the intro!
I love that lathe. I think it will do anything you ask it to.
Yes it will. I've been very impressed
Thanks for sharing
A trepanning job for sure!
Nice work Josh. Love your lathe!
If I had a need for a lot of these, I think a huge power-hammer and an oil-fired furnace would be the quickest way to forge a very strong blank, that could then be turned on the lathe in a fraction of the time.
While that might be feasible for a larger series production, I don' think it'd be worth the effort for a one-off or low number of items. Just think about the time the part takes to cool down after forging until you can machine it. Besides the uncertainty of properties after the heating (unless you normalize it again, taking another shit load of time)...
Never mine as he says this was a prototype part.
That's a ton of work but looks really neat 😊😊😊
I always say as I watch you, “Good god, that guy really knows what he’s doing”.🤜🤛👍👍
Thanks, but if you go by some of the comments, I'm a moron. Lol
@@TopperMachineLLC
When one is asked to do what you have done - the train yard/locomotive work and the rest and the proprietary work… I tend to go with, “Good god…. wow.”
Heya! First timer and new sub here!
Short introduction: The last 5 years i was doing mostly lathe work and deep hole drilling. maunal and NC/CNC and most parts the size of what you had on the machine or bigger.
The piece you used to push the part into the 3 jaw chuck (yes it's good enough and i don't get the people moaning about that either, it's perfectly accurate and no hassle to setup whatsoever...) with the center already in it... Makes perfect sense now that i see it the first time and im impressed that one can even take a healthy cut with it. Great idea!
I wouldn't try your approch on a 1,8 ton chonker but ima have such a contraption around for the next time i have a piece in that dimensions. lol
Really nice work on the part and the vid and nice to see some healthy cuts on a manual.
Keep it up and thanks for sharing!
Thank you. The plate center has been a great addition to the shop and I have several sizes now.
I'm not sure if you had me at the beer can or the slow-mo? Great video!
Love it, "no you don't, I have been doing this for 25 years."
Keep up the great videos.
Josh, this almost, is like when I headed to South Dakota, for a nice career. Where they turned stuff like that. Nope it wasn't my area, but something worth talking about, when I set up time and visit your shop. Nice setup, what a heck of bucket pile of chips!!!
LOL, solid intro btw. Your video skills, improving they are... 1/2" chip, now that's a man's chip right there son.
This kind of technology is really great, thank you for sharing, I have learned a lot
These type of stub shafts made out of a solid piece of steel are fairly common. I have designed stub shafts that are extremely similar to this piece that are made out of a solid chunk of 1045 as well.
I am starting to see it more so the last few years.
How many do you need to be making before getting custom forgings is worth the effort?
@@benjaminshropshire2900 that's up to the customer. When they determine they want a larger quantity, they will start exploring options.
@@TopperMachineLLC true, as far as customer service goes. If the buyer wants it done one way and is willing to pay what that costs....
But I was asking a cost of manufacturing question. Does anyone have a ballpark idea of where the potential material savings becomes more than the cost of getting custom blanks?
@@TopperMachineLLC Indeed. When they want 100, they're stop making them like this. (and when it breaks in the field, the owner will not waste the time and money to make half a ton of chips.)
If I have to do several of those, I believe I'd make a tailstock trepanning tool. That's a lot of chips.
WHY WOULD ANYONE DO THAT?
Do you know that in the Soviet Union sometimes it came to the point that turners set the task of turning round solid bars into chips in order to close the plan for the scrap metal . At the end of the year, if some plant did not close the plan for scrap metal, then the turners were forced to turned bars into chips).
A great video on metal removal, something that is close to my heart being a retired Seco Tools guy. May I suggest a few calculations to check your surface speed against the RPM rather than to guess. You could always check Sandviks cutting data for the grade of carbide againt the material as well. Good to see you supporting quality tooling, it goes well with your very grunty lathe. Cheers Ian
I've always used the baseline info for cutting, but was taught to tweek and produce better results. It's amazing how much you can push some inserts and have to baby others. I was nowhere near what I've pushed these inserts to, but I also know what gives me the best chip, tool life and surface finish. I could have pushed a lot harder but may have used up a few corners on the job. I did this all on one corner, roughing and finishing.
We all work to the customers specs and requirements, no matter what we do in life. Cracking video though 👍
Great video. I agree with the hog-out. With a weldment, you have many more set-ups and possibilities for error/defects. Perhaps a friction weldment or forging would work for higher volumes. Keep up the good work.
Good Stuff!
instead of wasting all that material, I'd had used a bandsaw to cut it down to size...(think of cutting corn of the cob) and still have that material for future use on another project
Neat intro!
Jobs like that are a great chance to get chip of the week.
I got 3rd place.
"LIKE" button has been torqued to the manufacturer's recommended specification. "CLICK".
God forbid you should be running around Spooner there with a loose "LIKE" button !
Also, on behalf of both me and my OCD, we want to offer our humble appreciation for the awesomely satisfying pile-o-chips you shared herein !
Keep up the good work!
reminds me of the time i machined valve plugs that had a big head and long shaft. 316 stainless and tons of it fell in the chip tray!
You need some salsa to go with those chips! I wonder if one could have a car wrap done in the same color as those chips. That would be cool!
The video should have been,"Chip Removal"
Nice work Josh.
Thanks for sharing.
Mr. Topper, your a fun guy. :3
Pretty cool, I am not a machinist so I don't know but it seems kind of wasteful, was there no way to saw off the bulk of the material before chucking it up? If possible it seems like you would have some pretty good usable stock for other projects, just curious.
hello topper machine llc it's randy and i like yours video is cool thanks friends randy
Thank you for sharing your manual machining expertise. I wonder how much of the chips can be recycled or does the heat make them poor candidates for re-use? Thanks again.
It all goes to recycling.
I looked at the manual, and assuming you are using the "DJI Mic", it has an option called "Mono with Safety Track" that will avoid distortion with varying volume. And you generally want to reduce the "Transmitter Gain" via the screen of the microphone. Depending on which video software you are using, I can provide some settings to then normalize and compress the audio back to normal volume so that people won't complain about the audio being too quiet.
Send me an email and we can go over these details. I really appreciate the help.
Really enjoy you videos, I am a home hobbyist with a Logan 14" lathe and play around but nothing to your caliber.
I was thinking couldn't you use a hole saw on the end and then use a cut off tool to take each section off until you get it closer to final dimensions, this would give you some rings for other projects.
Just a thought vs wasting all that material
2 1/2" deep core drill, & then cutoff tool? Maybe make one if doing many of these, someone on TH-cam was making these from steel tube & inserts, to core out several feet deep on a lathe.. great video..
That’s a big piece to machine down and a lot of chips to clean up, when we did jobs like this only 8 in dia we took one of those plastic according downs mounted one side to drive area and the other to the tool mount .we would open it all the way up and as it feed in it would still be at a good angle to catch most of the chips
Stupid question time from a woodworking perspective. If I was making a similar part out of wood (not for your kind of application, obviously), I would make a rough cut with a saw and remove much of the material from the stock instead of turning it into chips.
I am not a machinist by any means, but I have to wonder if you could bandsaw some of the waste off prior to turning to final dimensions.
Fascinating work, Josh. Thanks for sharing.
I would be interested in the runout it had after removing the tailstock. Have you measured it?
Those are some Abom79-size chips right there!
If any of my designers had put such a design out for machining, I'd fire him on the spot!
Great video
☹🇬🇧
Josh...PLEASE don't change a thing in the way you make these vids. Others have gone all fancy pantsy that takes away from where they were in the beginning. How's your weather way UP there? Here in TX, it's half as hot as the sun.
every time I look at those chips flying, I wonder if there's a feasible way of pulling them away from the moving parts. Some form of vacuum with a flex nozzle?
Does the spec allow for a fillet of some sort at the diameter transition?
The taper is what they specified. I suggested a radius, but it was quickly shot down. Not going to push the argument and potentially lose the job or customer. It's hard enough finding work in this region.
Very nice turning, just curious, how would the cool mist have done instead of the coolant ? Would this be a good place to use it? Like these videos! Thanks Josh.
Flood is way better for this application
Good nice
Cool intro....
Make parts like this all the time in my vtl just got a huge order and I turn mine in a 3 jaw too
stupid question
does there exust a technique or tool to plunge cut job like that from the front and then just part the produced section of outer tubing instead of just turning everything into chips?
If you did enough to warrant it you could make an auger like on your sawmill for chip handling. Set up a hopper and there you go!
Nice job. Clean up is a bummer.
Cool.
Its very soothing to do big removals. Initially the part is just a 110mm with some H7 tollerance on it for some bearings..but they wanted to see if we could make the square flange in one gone... So we ended up with a 380mm roundstock.... 95% removed... i guess the welders didn't do a good enough job!
Комментарий в поддержку канала и ролика, а также труда мастера.
Brilliant video. My question is if you are turning a taper. What's the best way to counteract that. Maybe by adjusting the tailstock?
Regards,
Joshua.
Check level of your machine first. It should be checked at least once a year. Once level, then check your tailstock.
Job will take forever with those depth of cuts. Centre drill in , centre on it and take at least 1/2 in cuts. 1/4 inch radial. Surface speed at 570 ft/min. Feed about 0.20 inch
Great Job.................Kudos!!..................Z
Josh,
Great job on the proctology device, I know it was a real pain in the butt turning that entire thing down..LOL....Id love a Lion like yours...impressive at the least in what it can do....clear skies finally last cpl days here, monster rains luckily keep missing me and slamming VT....all the rain tho making drying my firewood NOT good....and the deer flies....ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh......Keep up the good work.....btw your recycler musta loved that chip bin load....LOL
Don
Why do you not treepan and then you have a piece to use not just chips
if the boss saw you rolling that.... Oh, yeah! Lol!