@@toolio5268 It dosent matter we have way too many trauma with the 8 ball that its stuck on our mind, plus when you’re playing you dont think in silly drawings
i'm not sure if that counts as rng manip, so much as a save state. very useful, but when you think RNG manip, you think of waiting for the RNG seed to hit specific values in memory, or doing specific inputs to make the RNG seed be that specific value, which would require a debugger to see, step through, and at that point you're doing TAS-only strats
So what I'm picking up is that the RNG for this mode is fully deterministic! Which is very cool because the only other rogue-type game i've played is TBOI, which works the same way! Yet more familiar mechanics that make this DLC feel so cozy :3
I don't personally agree with the chosen wording of calling it RNG manipulation, because it's primarily saving the seed you've obtained for the run that you can keep using over and over again instead of manipulating it in a robust manner. Regardless, it's a great video showcasing how to minimize RNG for these runs.
A few things to note that I did: When I wanted to backup my data, I didn’t have to close the game. As long as auto backup is on (I think, there might be a way to do it without auto but idk) when I put the switch to sleep mode and left it for about 15 seconds, it’s able to connect to the internet and back up. It’s safe to do this when you’re on the floor selection screen, since the game saves right before then. I’ve reloaded many times from doing a backup like that, and it always brought me right back to the floor selection screen that I was last on (not losing progress). You don’t really need to do the “save and suspend” thing. This makes backing up faster since you don’t have to close the game. Auto backup is safe to have on using the thing I mention below. When a backup has initiated, you can stop it from backing up if you put the switch to sleep, which temporarily disconnects it from the internet. But you have to be quick to take it out of the dock and turn on airplane mode or something. When you take it out of airplane mode, I’m not entirely sure what happens. For me, I left auto backup and download on, since what you can do if you want to download backed up data is leave the game open, go to the cloud backup screen, press download, it’ll close the game and then it’ll download instead of backing up. There’s a weird bug of sorts where it’ll say backing up after doing that, but when you press B to go back to the previous page, you’ll see that it says downloading
I want to do a full monochrome run with eight's palette, would this strategy even work for that? So, if floor one is a red chip but floor 2 isn't, can you reroll floor 2 or will it always be the same rewards?
Do you think it’ll be possible to use this strategy to get a true 0-chip run? By getting a Vending Machine or using the Octo-Shot’s skip on every single floor.
If it is possible, it’s exceedingly unlikely. The most consecutive non-guaranteed vending machines I or anyone else I know has seen in a single run is 3, which would mean your non-vending floors are 1, 6, 12, 17, 23, and 28 for a total cost of 3200 membux to skip and I believe a total income of 2750 including the 500 at the start of the run (-450 assuming no rerolls). So under current knowledge, this means a 1-chip run is the minimum until 4 consecutive random vending machines are proven to exist.
I actually love this question because I’ve done a lot of thinking on it and realized that you actually can’t split categories as a result of this. This existing implies that any seed can be perfectly figured out through just a bit of information collection, and there would be no way of knowing if a runner leveraged such a tool.
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 It’s a good idea, but it’s not a long-term solution for categories using in-game time as the timing metric and also possibly not a solution for real-time categories as well. Because of how consistent everything is, you can solve an entire run just from the first set of levels on the first floor which creates a massive discrepancy between runs that leverage that and those that don’t.
If there’s information that would warrant a second part, I’ll definitely consider it. Obviously a big tbd on that because we haven’t made any meaningful strides to understanding more than we did when I recorded this.
Yes! This is how I got a 1:59 with charger. Same steps except every interaction with the NSO cloud save can be replaced with the respective interaction with the save state.
Not enough. I’ve been obsessed with the concept of Side Order’s handling of RNG since the first release trailer, and it helps that I naturally think of these things though.
A lot of data is stored server-side when it comes to that. If it wasn’t, people would be able to restore from a cloud save every time they lost a battle in X rank.
I lost the record of my last two runs because I didn't save the game before trying this (I though it saved when you beat a run?) Thankfully I didn't lose anything important, but don't be like me
Because motion controls make me sick? I can’t play with them for more than a couple minutes at a time which is a very legitimate problem. I’m also a world record-level player with them, so if anything this is proof that you should be less quick to judge players for how they play the game.
Your defensiveness tells me you’ve had this debate before 😅. If motion controls makes you sick, fair enough. For me it’s the opposite, I find the jerkiness disorienting. But I’ll admit I was a little quick to judge, you have my apology.
If you’re not interested in speedrunning Side Order, then yes this trick largely isn’t relevant for you. You can do everything you need to complete the game without this. But where perfect play is required, perfect information is mandatory.
Oh thank God someone that actually calls it infinity Ball as intended design
It's an 8 ball
@@overthegardenwall7143yeah bc agent 8 is called 8
infin-eight-y ball
@@overthegardenwall7143but the ball has an infinity symbol on it and they don’t call it an 8-ball anymore
@@toolio5268 It dosent matter we have way too many trauma with the 8 ball that its stuck on our mind, plus when you’re playing you dont think in silly drawings
I just want a way to get 5 Brella Cooldown chips I'm desperate
I feel you bro. I'm at like 10 hours of runs for that thing
damn now I feel bad for getting brella cooldown first try, but extra dodge rolls were my undoing
@@adept_cs i got that one first try, so don't worry we're even
can't relate. I got everything first try and all the splatling chips in one go incl. a few others on the way xD
Turn off all drone chips
i'm not sure if that counts as rng manip, so much as a save state. very useful, but when you think RNG manip, you think of waiting for the RNG seed to hit specific values in memory, or doing specific inputs to make the RNG seed be that specific value, which would require a debugger to see, step through, and at that point you're doing TAS-only strats
So what I'm picking up is that the RNG for this mode is fully deterministic! Which is very cool because the only other rogue-type game i've played is TBOI, which works the same way! Yet more familiar mechanics that make this DLC feel so cozy :3
Correct! The only random part happens when you start a run, after that it only looks random
Actually the best discovery ever
Be careful because at 1:19 you just showed your internet settings. You can blur parts of the video in youtube studio even after you upload.
ty ty editing that now!
@@adept_csyay! The blur seems to be working!
I don't personally agree with the chosen wording of calling it RNG manipulation, because it's primarily saving the seed you've obtained for the run that you can keep using over and over again instead of manipulating it in a robust manner. Regardless, it's a great video showcasing how to minimize RNG for these runs.
I'm not hugely into the speedrunning community but wouldn't a more accurate description be Savestating rather than RNG manip?
@@The21stGamer Calling it a save state is a lot more logical word.
Imagine this plus TAS
This vid should be more viewed!
A few things to note that I did:
When I wanted to backup my data, I didn’t have to close the game. As long as auto backup is on (I think, there might be a way to do it without auto but idk) when I put the switch to sleep mode and left it for about 15 seconds, it’s able to connect to the internet and back up. It’s safe to do this when you’re on the floor selection screen, since the game saves right before then. I’ve reloaded many times from doing a backup like that, and it always brought me right back to the floor selection screen that I was last on (not losing progress). You don’t really need to do the “save and suspend” thing. This makes backing up faster since you don’t have to close the game. Auto backup is safe to have on using the thing I mention below.
When a backup has initiated, you can stop it from backing up if you put the switch to sleep, which temporarily disconnects it from the internet. But you have to be quick to take it out of the dock and turn on airplane mode or something. When you take it out of airplane mode, I’m not entirely sure what happens. For me, I left auto backup and download on, since what you can do if you want to download backed up data is leave the game open, go to the cloud backup screen, press download, it’ll close the game and then it’ll download instead of backing up. There’s a weird bug of sorts where it’ll say backing up after doing that, but when you press B to go back to the previous page, you’ll see that it says downloading
very deserved sub, thank you!
I want to do a full monochrome run with eight's palette, would this strategy even work for that?
So, if floor one is a red chip but floor 2 isn't, can you reroll floor 2 or will it always be the same rewards?
Do you think it’ll be possible to use this strategy to get a true 0-chip run? By getting a Vending Machine or using the Octo-Shot’s skip on every single floor.
If it is possible, it’s exceedingly unlikely. The most consecutive non-guaranteed vending machines I or anyone else I know has seen in a single run is 3, which would mean your non-vending floors are 1, 6, 12, 17, 23, and 28 for a total cost of 3200 membux to skip and I believe a total income of 2750 including the 500 at the start of the run (-450 assuming no rerolls). So under current knowledge, this means a 1-chip run is the minimum until 4 consecutive random vending machines are proven to exist.
interesting find!
though imo id rather just test my luck or reset floors since its quicker
Do you think this might create a category split into a RNG Manip. category and a Pure RNG category?
I actually love this question because I’ve done a lot of thinking on it and realized that you actually can’t split categories as a result of this. This existing implies that any seed can be perfectly figured out through just a bit of information collection, and there would be no way of knowing if a runner leveraged such a tool.
@@adept_cs Having read your reply, I now realize that my reasoning for creating two categories was flawed. Thanks for the reply!
@@adept_cs What if you required the run to start from the foyer? Would it still be possible to manipulate the seed for the next run?
@@nmotschidontwannagivemyrea8932 It’s a good idea, but it’s not a long-term solution for categories using in-game time as the timing metric and also possibly not a solution for real-time categories as well. Because of how consistent everything is, you can solve an entire run just from the first set of levels on the first floor which creates a massive discrepancy between runs that leverage that and those that don’t.
Can u make a 2 vid on this in the future if u know more about the subject
If there’s information that would warrant a second part, I’ll definitely consider it. Obviously a big tbd on that because we haven’t made any meaningful strides to understanding more than we did when I recorded this.
We need Japanese translation
True, I’m no expert myself but maybe the auto-generated Japanese captions don’t suck for this case
I swear i got a seed where i get max quick charge on f9 and i get 3 main savers on vending machine of f11
Is this on inkapedia yet. Also inkapedia is splatoon wiki
Would this work on a CFW Switch with a save manager like Checkpoint?
Yes! This is how I got a 1:59 with charger. Same steps except every interaction with the NSO cloud save can be replaced with the respective interaction with the save state.
How much free time does this man have???
Not enough. I’ve been obsessed with the concept of Side Order’s handling of RNG since the first release trailer, and it helps that I naturally think of these things though.
This may affect multiplayer data if you want to go back to an old run and if your data changed between them. Wouldn't it?
A lot of data is stored server-side when it comes to that. If it wasn’t, people would be able to restore from a cloud save every time they lost a battle in X rank.
I lost the record of my last two runs because I didn't save the game before trying this (I though it saved when you beat a run?)
Thankfully I didn't lose anything important, but don't be like me
Seeing someone use stick controls actually makes me cringe. Why, why, why…..
Because motion controls make me sick? I can’t play with them for more than a couple minutes at a time which is a very legitimate problem.
I’m also a world record-level player with them, so if anything this is proof that you should be less quick to judge players for how they play the game.
Your defensiveness tells me you’ve had this debate before 😅. If motion controls makes you sick, fair enough. For me it’s the opposite, I find the jerkiness disorienting. But I’ll admit I was a little quick to judge, you have my apology.
SOOOOO NOT WORTH IT
If you’re not interested in speedrunning Side Order, then yes this trick largely isn’t relevant for you. You can do everything you need to complete the game without this. But where perfect play is required, perfect information is mandatory.
Yippie
I need to get extra dodge roll chips 🥲