Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2023
- Like this video to fix the tactics system
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One of the most defining features of Persona 3’s combat system was its ai controlled party members. It was a somewhat unique idea for the series and helped give Persona 3 a distinct identity compared to the other games. Though this feature was met with a pretty mixed reception so much so that by the time Persona 4 came around, the devs over at P-studio sort of backpedalled on the idea and included an option for direct control. You know it’s bad when this feature is advertised on the back of the box. While this is a good feature to have, you know what? Old habits die hard. Persona 4 still offers the option to use the tactic system in a similar fashion to persona 3. And since I already proved how useful it was in that game, I figured I should tackle the same challenge here. So in today’s video, we’re going to find out whether or not you can beat Persona 4 without the protagonist.
The rules of this run are pretty simple. Rule number 1: the direct command tactic is completely off-limits and I have to stick with ai controlled party members. Rule number 2: the protagonist cannot perform any actions in battle other than changing party tactics, accept all out attacks, and guarding. This means that no items during a battle but I’ll allow their use outside of combat. Rule number 3: is that I’m allowed to use save states for the sake of saving time. Obviously I’m not going to use savestates in the middle of fights, but I’ll plop one down at the start of boss fights so I don’t have to rewatch the cutscenes. Rule number 4 is no new game plus for obvious reasons. And finally, rule number 5 is that this run is going to be attempted with the vanilla ps2 release of persona 4. While Persona 4 golden is the most accessible version of the game, the quality of life additions ultimately make the game significantly easier. Rise’s social bonuses and the reworked shuffle time mechanics completely trivialize that version of the game so for the sake of keeping things interesting, I’m going with the ps2 version. Plus everyone always uses golden for challenge runs so playing vanilla will be a good shake up.
Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist? Welcome to my Persona 4 challenge run video. in this Persona 4 challenge run, Nam's Compendium will be asking the question can you beat Persona 4 without the protagonist. This Persona 4 challenge run video is not a Persona 4 review or Persona 4 Analysis but it does serve as a Persona 4 in 2023 video. This Persona 4 challenge run was uploaded in commemoration of the somewhat recent Persona 4 Portable PC port which is a great way to experience the game. Nam's Compendium has a Persona 4 analysis and Persona 4 review in the past, but can you beat Persona 4 without the protagonist is very different. If this video does well, expect more Persona challenge run videos and Shin Megami Tensei challenge run videos in the future. - เกม
I want to do more challenge runs in the future. If you have any suggestions, please let me know in the comments below! Also, subscribe if you're feeling generous!
Persona 3 portable with femc exclusive content only (slinks, mechanics, persona’s)
DDs 1 no protag
strange journey protagonist only
SMTV without demons
Complete SMT3 on hardest difficulty at low level (no farming)
Yukiko deciding to troll the team and not do anything until the last second just for laughs is surprisingly in-character
Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist?
Ludonarrative harmony
It's no wonder when MC falls in battle the whole rest of the party just pull down their pants and surrender. They're hopeless.
I just imagine Izanagi being pissed off the whole game and calling Yu a bitch
Izanami just having the time of her life
this made me laugh bc i named yu “mr bitch” 😭
@@akechifloorsign I raise you my "DR. SEX DR. SEX"
"I am thou, thou art a bitch"
"you is a mf you know that"
- Izanagi, probably
The reason why Yukiko just refuses to attack normally is due to the Naoto boss resisting fire. The game believes that Yukiko using an attack on an enemy that resists it will be a waste of SP, so it won't allow her to do it.
No idea why she won't heal tho. The ai's just broken like that I guess.
Yukiko got PISSED that Yu refuses to help
probably is because since the ai gameplay wasn't as popular as the devs though, they decided to simply not work on the AI in depth since they probably believed everyone could end up turning it off as soon as posibleso why bother?
Must be coded more like “don’t use skills” instead of just “don’t use fire element skills”
@@cronft True, but they went out of their way to downgrade the AI, They could simply left the P3 system there and just add the Direct Controls option. I don't understand WHY P4 did this to the AI though, feels like a waste of time.
Maybe because all spells are considered as specific spells , also I think the ai started healing because teddy ran out of mp which idk why
Nam: Im doing vanilla P4 with P3 rules.
Me: Huh, ok, nice to see OG P4 and this was doable in P5, though barely.
*The P4 AI doesnt use buffs*
Me: YOU FUCKING WHAT.
P3 command system op baby!!!
This got me laughing like a madman for 3-4 mins straight because I can imagine the sound effect in my mind
@@dream6562 I miss it
Especially the complete one by the end of the game
Perfectly doable, this isn't SMT
@@ryanhernandez8324honestly outside of nocturne I think you can beat all mainline smt games without buffs (not counting secret bosses or DLC ones tho)
"Yukiko thinking she's hot shit" and she's correct! ✅️✅️✅️
No ❤
i find that hilarious that yukiko remembered she had a persona lmao
I feel like at a point cheats dont take away from the run when the only option is grinding. whether you cheat or do it legit, your stats would end up the same. Theres an argument about the spirit of the challenge, but it would be terrible if it took a month to grind only to learn even at max level the challenge was unwinnable.
exactly my thoughts. you're just saving yourself time, idk why he was making such a big deal out of it
Realistically yea but the guy behind the challenge did make a huge deal out of it, after all as you said this does save time by a lot should you grind for it legit so speeding it not really cheating truly.
Why would grinding be cheating if it's a legitimate option in the game to level up? You still gotta put in effort to plan what you do in the game like what items you need to get, weapons, armour etc as you lvl up. Get beat down and come back a stronger kinda deal.
@@cynic8021 self inflicted challenges fall into a weird spot really quickly. If you just sit and grind to level 100 for a year at the start of the game, of course you can beat the game with only the protagonist or only izanagi, party only, etc.
Unless theres a legit threat thats hard to beat with just stats, most challenges turn from "can i do X" to "whats the lowest level to do X"
Thats why grinding is seen as cheating or less fun.
@@cynic8021no one here said grinding was cheating. They were saying that cheating to max out your stats rather than grinding is fine bc you’re just saving time to get to the same place.
My guess is Yukiko doesn't use fire attack spells since Shadow Naoto resists fire and would prioritize using an element they don't resist, in this case physical.
I assume there's some priority when you have multiple healers on team so that one will be dedicated to attack and the other to healing, with Teddie having higher priority in this fight for some reason.
So therefore, Yukiko only heals when Teddie is unable to heal at all, in this case when he runs out of SP.
I'm just spitballing, so it could be wrong, but either way the AI in this game is stupid.
I don't think that's right because you see Yosuke and Yukiko both healing on the same turn in earlier fights. It just seems like her AI is bugged in the Naoto fight.
@@crazzluz1702 Yeeep. And it is odd because the AI usually doesn't bug out like that when it comes to their element being resisted
Even here, it's a bit stupid. The game could potentially calc their maximum damage, see that Yukiko does very poor damage and Teddy hopefully does more, and chance for Teddy to be the offensive healer
Bro, there's a bug in Adachi's dungeon where if you have nul physic attacks and you encounter a certain enemy, the battle can last a lot due to the enemy summoning allies and only attacking you with physical attacks (his minions also only have physical attacks), those battles can last a lot of hours and when you end then, the amount of exp that you earn es huge, making it more viable if you wanted to grind to level 99 with the whole party.
I've heard of it, but is it in Golden?
@@polishedrelish the monster is still there but will spam Megido after enough turn. Making it not viable for auto grind on that version.
They repeat this exact mistake in persona 5 with the black oozes that endlessly respawn in okumura's palace.
@@iwannaseehowlongyoucanmakethisdoes it still work in royal
As someone who basically always runs Teddie on his team its really surprising how little he gets used considering everything he provides.
It's mostly due to his character rather than what he provides
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction That, and also because his social link is story locked. Unlike in Golden, the party that had their social link maxed will lose their elemental weakness so obviously it's better to pick the one you already maxed out. And by the time you're in endgame, Teddie will have a hard time to catch up unless you're already using him from very beginning instead of waiting for his social link
In my first playtrough I havent used him bc of his sound effect while walking
In my second run I noticed that giving him a skin while he is human removes it so I added it
My team at the end was
Chie, yosuke and naoto, used teddie for mitsuo fight since I had to get some heals and I didnt wanted to use yukiko, the only character that was lvl 30 innyhe endgame
I used him mid-game because the rest of my party were girls if possible, later I changed it to a full harem party, but still used him sometimes for particularly hard bosses as a healer.
exactly, I don't think Teddie ever left my active party once I got him. Plus Kamui Miracle is too fun not to have access to at all times.
Just a guess, but I wonder if buffs aren't usable in p4's AI because the game doesn't know how to check for them? In p3, party skills were set, but in p4 you have a lot more control over what skills your party members learn (and even moreso in golden). Its possible that because the p3 AI knew exactly what levels it knew what buffs at, it was able to use them in P3, but that this returned errors in p4 depending on party builds, and so they just entirely took it out.
that being said, its really disappointing to see that not much effort was put into the system, as the creator's supposedly really liked the idea of AI controlled parties, and only added party control due to fan request.
Glad to see the OG P4 getting some love!
I didn't like this version as Altus at the time was remove the original Japanese and the dubs only...
My prefered version of the game 😌
Honestly I think I like OG p4 over golden too
Nice fog effects but worse Chie.
@@ChiefMedicPururu Correction: Bettee Chie
about Yukiko doing basic attacks during the Shadow Naoto fight she does it only because her Ai relies on Teddie as healer, which is why she started healing when he ran out of sp. I can confirm this since Yukiko’s Ai still does this in Golden as I’m doing a challenge run where I only use Izanagi as my main Persona and am not allowed to control the party, Yukiko did this while I fought Shadow Mitsuo with Teddie & Yosuke in the meanwhile relying on Teddie as a healer regardless the tactic she’s set on besides Direct Commands.
So Yu Narukami is pulling a Luigi by doing absolutely nothing.
A CHALLENGE RUN ACTUALLY DONE IN THE PS2 VERSION OF PERSONA 4 WHAT IS THIS
As someone that's only played the PS2 version, it's delightful to see it getting some love!
Why would you want the inferior game at all?
@@joshstephens413 Has better visuals
@@SilverTypo5081 It's a ps2 game it doesn't look good anyway lmao
no it doesnt @@SilverTypo5081
Awesome a run of OG Persona 4 is being challenge runned! Considering how bad the AI is here, I'm still surprised they still have it in Persona 5.
Man I did a run of P5R with AI companions and that felt abysmal, but this looks to be an entirely new league of horrid to sit through. Glad to see some OG P4 though, I have yet to play Golden but P4 on the ps2 was my intro to the megaten series so it has a special place in my heart.
I wonder if the dumbing down of P4s AI was on purpose. If you think about it you can see the challenge of Persona 4 being more like traditional RPGs where you need to look at the party and skills you have come up with the strategies in that way. As opposed to Persona where it’s managing the tactics. In that way it would make a party that acts on its own seem too easy. It’s just good for thought but maybe it’s why the AI is not as sharp and why certain skills like buffs are simply unusable by the computer.
I like to think the ai options in persona 4 and 5 are there for if just you want to grind and not go through as many menus, since the enemies have a low chance of killing you anyways you don't need the smartest strategies to take them out
I dont think the ai was perposley made bad, I think they added it in incase you just wanted to autobattle while you grind, they didnt intend for it to be used every battle.
@@iguessthisismyworkaccountl8437 I guess made bad on purpose is a stretch and more like, it wasn’t ironed out like it is in 3. I still stand by the idea it’s because the game most likely was built in a way to encourage the Direct Command.
If that's what they intended, P5V did it correctly...
Healers can be quite stingy but they guard, (inconsitstanlty but it's something) buff and use low level revive items as well as automatically switch to conserve SP when they get low
Still no power/mind charge and sometimes break like Yukiko did on Shadow Naoto's fight but most of the time they serve their purpise and are no issue when doing mindlesd grinding or even most bossfights
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 P5V? vanilla?
So, Yukiko in Shadow Naoto fight. Here's my best guess based on programming.
So, part 1 is that Shadow Naoto resists fire, so she avoids using attack magic. that's easy enough.
Part 2 is the healing, and this is complicated. The best answer I have for you is that Teddy can heal. Because Teddy has healing options, the AI decides that Yukiko is better off attacking, because Teddy will be healing and has priority on that because his magic is lower, so his attack magic is less valuable- even though in this case Yukiko will never use attack magic. However, when Teddy runs out of SP, he no longer can heal anyone. So the Ai sees this and decides that now Yukiko should heal, because nobody else can, even if her attack magic is more powerful in regular cases.
Why does this happen here and not in regular fights? Likely because of SP comparisons and unknown enemy resistances.
Final boss looking at Yu:
He's just standing there!
_Menacingly!_
The bug with Yukiko not doing anything reminds me of one of the many strange issues my damaged disc of P3FES had back in the day - if Aegis went into Orgia mode, she would then just guard every single turn and accomplish literally nothing. When I first played I thought I had missed something about how Orgia mode was supposed to work and didn't even realize it was a bug. Luckily that one had the easy fix of just not using Orgia mode.
I have a somewhat funny story about Naoto boss. I was fighting her as usual, with my beginner team member because Yosuke Chie Yukiko are a balanced enough team. But this time (in my fourth playthrough I think?) Naoto kept attacking Yukiko. That attack where it drained your HP and SP. Not to mention, cast a Silent on the character that made them unable to use skill. Naoto did it three time consecutively that I was kind of pissed off, because that's my healer right there and I need her skill. So, I decided to use a Magic Mirror Item on Yukiko.
I thought 'aint no way this will work on a boss enemy' but guess what? It DID work and Naoto was now Silent for one turn! 😲
I was honestly surprised it happened. Because boss enemies are usually resistant to Status Effect. Literally got a freebie for one turn. And funny enough, Naoto never attack Yukiko again after that. Karma is real, even in game 🤣
(I played Persona 4 original btw, so idk if this scenario can happen in Persona 4 Golden too or not)
The weirdest thing here is that OG P4 has better party AI than Golden. Here it's awful but in Golden it's completely broken...
Granted it's awful even compared to P5V AI but at least changing their tactics actually changes their behavior somewhat outside of Full Assault making them not heal
What happened to the P4G ai?
@@subway_koopa Idk but there was no noticeable behavioral diference when changing tactics in P4G whatsover, the only one I could tell was Full Assault disabling healing but considering how awful P4G AI health percentage requirements to heal are in Heal/Support already I bet it was the requirement being put super low
P5V?
@@hgmd3284 Persona 5 Vanilla
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 ah oki
Potential challenge run idea:
In P5, you can only use your magic on your 1-more turn.
That means you can only use physical/gun attacks and elemental items to cause damage and knock down enemies. This also means you will predominantly be using items for healing the party.
This will force you to become intimately familiar with all the food items in the game and stuff that allow for buffs and debuffs.
Just an idea, hope you can make something out of that.
I've got to say, this was one of your best videos to watch. Not only was it a blast to see you play the original PS2 version of P4 and hear your thoughts, but the journey you experienced and the challenges you had to overcome with the dumb AI had me on the edge of my seat the whole way through, especially towards the end. Keep up the good work!
I think the point of the tactics command in p4 is moreso speeding up fights than being your sole option you HAVE to rely on. Given that it makes sense that they would deviate from the role in dire situations to stabilize and that some commands like assign target were removed
I wish more unique mechanics in Megami Tensei were fleshed out (DDS human form…Devil Survivor online integration…)
Loved the video and I would definitely like to see more challenge run videos
Congrats on pulling this off. I've played the original twice and Golden once so I know how many pitfalls you can run into with this type of challenge
Wow, vanilla P4 looks so different! Darker and a whole lot foggier. And I saw a floating shadow, that was weird
It feels like it should be obvious that the game that let you directly control the party members doesn't have as robust or refined a system for automated commands, but wow.
You Released this just after i finished persona 3, and i’ve come back to watch now i’ve finished Persona 4. Well done! Excellent video, interesting to see the little differences between the ps2 version and golden.
YES WE’RE GETTING FED, YOUR VIDS GET ME THRU WORK!
Persona 5 without the protagonist
Persona 1 with only starting personas
I'm almost certain people who don't use direct commands are insane.
i only use it in boss fights
Another great video.
Glad to see nam continuing to do challenge runs
I feel like golden has the potential to be so much worse just because of Marie's dungeon and boss fight
At least your allies do shit in that game. Not to mention there are buffs upon buffs to be used.
As well as making Yu invincible in Golden being comically easy. Seriusly, just keep Izanagi for a while and you will reach 20~ Endurance before the second Dungeon.
Golden mecanics are busted.
being genuine I don't think this challenge is possible simply due to Marie's boss necessitating Elemental Break skills or the items in her dungeon
exactly
Fun concept for a video watching it has just made me want to play this game again haha! Thanks for the entertainment.
That was Herculean! I didn't think it could be done, and I'm glad you did it.
Great vidtables!
Let's see how well you do this run and i hope you did learn from several major mistakes that Magic Marcos did in his Golden Run. Such as No Amrita, oopsies with Boost and Amp. I hope Mitsuo didn't ruin your sanity though.
"Teddie is so slept on" you can say that again brother
I wish there was a reason to use the AI controls more. It could be fun if using Ai controls meant even if your player character went down, your allies would keep fighting.
i think they lessened the tatics and AI because people hated the fact you couldnt have full control of the party in P3 so they kept the previous system but empasised party control.
With how you describe Persona 3 AI, it makes me really wonder if rather then do slot 2-4 AI branch trees it was "Character name" do X if above % etc..., so with Persona 4 going as far as to add "full team control" on the box if they only ported the lowest/broadest AI party member settings and didn't bother to fully QA test it, since they don't use buffs
for people who have played ff12 think the gambit system tree
the worst part about the tactics nerfs is that all of them also apply to persona 3 portable, so you can't play that game how it was originally meant to even if you want to
There's something uniquely hilarious about Yu not doing anything for the whole game, and when he finally does he obliterates God from existence with a single move
Dragon Quest 4 on the NES/Famicom had mandatory AI party members during to fifth chapter. One of your healer has the instant death spell and thier constant use of it is kind of a meme.
all this video tells me that persona 3 is better in a lot of details in their programing. great video btw
I remembered watching one of your videos the other day. I guess you could say I had a… *Nam flashback*
the original ps2 version looks so GOOD, goddamn. i love Golden but im sorta sad its switch port was the only exposure i've ever had with p4
There’s technically 3 required protag battles, the first one is in his dream that yields no exp. The second being the shadows after his awakening and the third being the shadow Yosuke fight.
I am surpised you did it. Also never understood why Turn Based RPG's don't always all you to control all party members.
I'm guessing Yukiko didn't heal during the Shadow Naoto boss fight until Teddie was out of SP is because Teddie was healing the team before, so Yukiko's AI probably thought it would be a waste of SP to also use Mediarama.
Even then... she was healing alongside Yosuke in the same turn before, that was one hell of an AI bugout just because Shadow Naoto resists fire
No actually, I played Golden; this same issue happened to me. Yukiko, for some reason has a very low priority on heal when Teddie's on the field for that fight only. She refused to heal me for 6 turns in a row until I died. Doesn't happen anywhere else.
its really weird seeing p4 ps2, it looks just like golden except its blurrier but also better looking in certain areas
Wow... the protagonist has been pushed to a side character.
Even though you are right about altering the intended experience of the game at the end of the experience cheat wouldve been an opportunity cost of time for you
33:30 I hate the random skill inheritance. That's why I am so thankful for the P3P manual skill inheritance mod.
i would love to have heard a live reaction of yukiko healing after all that
"This fight is only half as difficult as any stage in Pong: The Next Level"
Oh man... that game. No joke, a lot of the challenges in that Pong game was stupidly hard. This guy gets it.
me still had Mitsuru's Marin Karin PTSD
i will never let AI do anything one their own
What a challenge. I think a version in which you directly input ally commands without using the MC to do any action other than Guard is tough enough.
LETS GOOOO
I would love to see you do video can you best persona 5 royal without the main character
If a cheat/mod is only something to reduce time on a challenge run not based around a time frame I would say it's perfectly reasonable.
But only if you aren't on an in-gamr time limit. That ultimately undermines the point of the time limit.
From the video title I thought he would be switching out yu with another party member who can't use the wild card.
Bruh. This man just casually finished the fox like it was nothing. Even nowadays I slightly struggle to finish everything in p4 in one run
NOW, do a challenge lke this but for Persona 5 :D. The OG version though, I wanna see you suffer xD
I think another big reason why people do golden instead of og p4 beyond golden being more accessible and easier to get a copy of without emulation is that it has more content with maries stuff which tends to be even harder
Is it possible to fuse a rpl all persona for the Izanami fight? I know Trumpeter is already strong, but having repel all probably would've prevented her from healing off of electric. 🤔
This run is hilarious from a roleplay perspective because you have Yu commanding the team pokemon battle style and he only helps fight when the enemy can't fight back.
You knwo the protags name is Yu Narukami right?
OG P4 for life!!!!
How the hell are you starting the Fox social link so early? Doesn't it require a pretty high courage?
Did og p4 have the auto party buff skills? And would equiping those be against the rules?
53:03 Not to mention that the characters when they join are defaulted to "Act Freely"
23:34 "that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer" is what should have been said, I'm not angry, just disappointed.
Unless they fixed the AI, I doubt a P4G Golden True Ending can be possible.
I mean, you have to use Elemental Break Skills/Items to beat Kasumi no Okami after all.
Funny but P4G straight up makes the party AI EVEN WORSE than it already is in Vanilla
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 How??? I mean, how is that even possible?
@@franbh94 Don't ask me
Ever since I got the info that P4 had horrible downgraded AI, I wanted someone to do this run. xD
I wish atlus would release a version of OG P4 with goldens quality of life improvements but none of the extra story stuff. I felt like the filler events and ability to visit different areas with your scooter just ruin the idea of a small rural town with nothing to do in it
I’m not sure if Vanilla is different from Golden in this regard but I’m pretty sure Naoto’s palace yields the most exp because it’s got the highest rate of gold hand spawns (or at least that’s how it’s always been for me), so that might be the best dungeon to grind levels in overall and could help you get to level 99 before Izanami.
Golden hands give exactly 1 exp in vanilla
in Golden the best XP place overall is Magatsu Mandala F6 if you fight everything and Heaven if you only farm for Golden Hands
@@Ggahni I think I might’ve just gotten a lucky seed or something a few times because I was able find them on a certain floor, go back to the entrance and then go back to that same floor to find the hands replenished. I did this until my team seems yoked enough, it took a little bit but we all left that palace Lvl 99.
palace? lol
@@daiyahigashikata I know lol. I didn’t want to call it that and dungeon also would’ve worked but I forgot if there was an “official” term for all the different TV areas.
wait you can fight izanami in og p4?? i thought she was only in golden
wow what a ride
I miss the OG version. I wish it got a port just for the option
im making a mod that restores the ai from p3 to p4 golden and im mostly sure a mod like that has not been released but uhhhhh i could use some help as i have never made a mod before
To anyone who complains of the AI of Persona 3 FES, they absolutely need to see this video
Can You Beat Persona 4 WITHOUT the Protagonist?
if the ai teammates are dombed down this severely why do they start out as ai-controlled?
you're clearly meant to play the game with direct controls
atlus being atlus I guess
What's the ost on 9:50? Can't find it.
Oh, it's from Raidou.
"if I use cheats, I don't know, that feels like cheating to me"
😂😂
What's the name of the song that starts at 15:05? It sounds like it's from Persona.
Corn Dog, from persona q.
Man…I still haven’t maxed the fox because of that last request
Would have been nice if you used a mod or hack. The way you did that Protag is still useful as a meat shield
49:23 it’s totally fine to just use EXP cheats. You’re already at the end of the game and it’s better that you just get the grinding out of the way and get back to the pet that actually takes skill rather than something mindless
im back 11 months later learning even more differences between p4 and p4g like SAVE POINTS BEFORE BOSSES??
I thought that was just bc he was emulating
Perhaps Yukiko's AI didn't heal because Teddie already has healing spells, and perhaps his healing is more effective than Yukiko's, leading her to default into only doing physical attacks? Makes sense why she only healed once Teddie couldn't anymore