As great as these games are Atlus really fumbled the bag especially on 4 & 5 because why in the games which have themes of self acceptance and breaking free of society unfair expectations/oppression did they not think that adding a queer character wouldn’t work. Even more frustrating since they were definitely planning to cut Yosuke romance and all.
Even more glaringly: Accept who you are as long as you are a guy. It wouldn't have been a major problem to make a FeMC, given that the regular MC doesn't have voice.
Because of Japanese and American social norms not quite being there when 4 came out and even still in Japan by the time 5 came out 6 might be different
Because it would be pandering and be the only thing people think of when thinking of the series. If anything a lgbt character should be subtle, and then later games make it uber obvious
It's in the game with no social links that they were more open minded with the romance options 😅 it was to satisfy fujoshi apparently but at least they had some balls at that time, and Japan wasn't more LGBT friendly than today in the 90s
Apologies if this has been brought up already but im surprised you didnt mention aigis being able to romance the female protagonist. Its the only gay romantic social link in persona. It also makes femc canonically bi/pan. If you pick Elizabeth as your attendant for femc you can "spend a long time alone with her" same as the male mc. So P3P has 3 canonically sapphic characters. Again im sorry if i missed you mentioning this or if this has been brought up by others.
If Persona 6 isn't about a bunch of sapphic delinquents beating up the prison industrial complex, then I'm going to riot. JoJo Part 4: Teens hunt down a supernatural serial killer inna quirky small town = Persona 4: Teens hunt down a supernatural serial killer in a quirky small town JoJo part 5: Criminals attempt to defy fate and overthrow a corrupt system = Persona 5: Criminals attempt tondefy fate and overthrow a corrupt system JoJo part 6: Rowdy women in prison = Persona 6: YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO ATLUS
If they could have a gay option in the second game then why did they not put it in Persona 4 in Persona 5 especially five because the message of the game would have fit gay people really well but they never actually did it because they were too scared about what other people were going to think about it and I can't believe that they're not scared in the second game but in the fifth game they're scared okay I guess we're just too scared it's not going to work
I think as long as the characters are well written it’s a W in my book Regardless of sexuality Like 2 was a pure banger In terms of story, writing, ost, etc
13:22 . I do love how you didn't pay notice to the metaphorical elephant in the room. That engage removed paired endings for everyone but alear. Making everyone pan for just alear and no one else. I honestly wish paired ending got brought back just so alferd doesn't need to marry alear to not die from cancer . Post made by alfred gang
Don't get me started on those endings on Engage. Alfred was my second choice but in the end I chose Bunet, and I felt so guilty after finishing seeing what happened to him!
P1 has two main gay male NPCs in the casino and a section of the game looks to be inspired by or similar to drag culture (though don’t quote me on the later, that’s just what I assumed).
8:42 regarding Catherine, I don't really agree that Erica's handeling was as bad as beatiful lady from P3, for one thing she isnt represented as a predator. I don't know what stuff you've seen regarding Catherine but I personally felt Erica was done well for the most part, at the very least she is presented as a likable character and it is shown that transitioning made her happy (it's stated she was depressed before transitioning), which I thought was cool. The only really bad thing they do that I could see being in the same vein as P3 is that she sleeps with another character who didnt know she was trans and the other character is disappointed upon finding out (his name is Toby). Which while not great, I don't think comes close to how beatiful lady is potrayed. Full Body does attempt to rectify this by heavily implying that her and Toby become a couple in Rin's new true ending. They also touched up some iffy elements from the original like dead naming her in the credits and a transphobic line from the main character (although the tone of the original scene is that he's in the wrong for saying that). The only other major thing I can think of is that the main villain of the game considers them still male, but he is the villain and is potrayed as being evil and bad, so I don't think its a huge leap to say that, that position is evil and bad too, in my opinion. Oh, there is also a new ending that shows that she hasnt transitioned yet (one of the characters time travels to the past) and a lot of people say this ending makes her not trans but the ending heavily implies that she just hasnt done it yet. Toby mentions that he wishes he had a beatiful girl to date and Erica says "They might be closer than you think." Which to me is obviously saying that they still intends to transition and just hasn't done it yet. Overall, Erica's potrayal isnt perfect but I think they did a good job overall. Also Catherine Full Body includes a gay romance, which was weird not to see mentioned, Rin is established to be a boy and the main conflict of that route is Vincent confronting his repressed Homosexuality. There is a scene where Erica asks Rin how he feels about same sex couples and he says something to the effect that the only thing that matters is love and that its not a big deal. I don't know what sources you looked at previously but if they didnt mention this, I think you should look a bit deeper. I can't link to it but on persona central an article titled "Catherine: Full Body Famitsu Details: Alternative Voice Actors for Catherine, Over 500 Stages" you can find this statment "Hashino states that Catherine: Full Body is a complete version of the concept from the previous game, which can be delivered because the sense of values has been diversified since 7 years ago. The existence of Rin, the new character, is someone who makes it possible for others to find new values represented in this game." Which I think is very telling of how Hashino actually feels about the subject.
Like the one that I hate about the newest Persona games is that there's a lot of problematic stuff with the games like how ryuji calls, cheetah out of being a perv but then himself is also a perv because of the anime when he sees Palace version of on he gets all prevey instead of I don't know kind of acknowledging how disgusting kamoshida is like there's a lot of problems with Persona 6 like how on keep saying sexualized in the series even though she's a victim of sexual abuse so just makes meaning of persona 6 is kind of tone deaf and doesn't understand how these things actually work because they did handle owns feelings about, cheetahs abuse towards her in the game pretty good but then they just kind of undo all of that by having their other characters making them look no better than him and why did ryuji have to be such a perv like the add story lines like on story about overcoming the abuse that she suffered from call Ishita but then in the camera they just kind of sexualize her a lot and they shouldn't be doing that because of on story but I guess they just forgot or something I don't know
Honestly? I'm actually pretty hopeful for how P6 might handle queerness going forward. Hashino aside, P-Studio has changed quite a bit since his departure in 2019, and they've got a lot of new, younger hires now spearheading the future of this series who... For all we know, may be more sensitive to homophobia themselves than the veterans, or maybe even have a vested interest in acknowledging queer existence more tactfully. At the very least, that's the vibe I've been getting from their post-Royal releases. I'm not sure if that means P6 will have lgbt romance options--I'm setting my expectations low--But they have been surprising me quite a bit lately with stuff like the Tactica marriage gag and Ryoji's confession attempt in Reload. At the very least, this feels like the closest modern Persona has ever been to that inclusion.
About the Magazine interview with jun, Didn't the interview happen after most of the People that work on persona 2 left? If so I wouldn't trust it too much.
I think the biggest thing with Hashino specifically is that he's one of the only consistent team members linking Personas 3-5 plus Catherine (as far as I've been able to research), which are the Atlus games with the most outright problematic queer content. Whether or not he's truly to blame for a lot of these issues is definitely up in the air, but the fact that it's all games he's happened to direct, each with mostly different writing staff, taken in combination with some misogynistic stuff he's said in interviews, does make me raise my eyebrows a bit. I think the big thing on determining whether or not he's truly to blame will be whether his future games like Metaphor, and whatever he works on after that, continue to include problematic content like this.
Imagine persona 6 gameplay will be like 2 protagonist instead of like one group gang thing there Will be 2 Group or gang with five members including their self or something (i’m just guessing what will be the sequel)
P5X shows they want Chinese audience. Losing those queer fans are the same as losing Femc fans. So to keep the Chinese market at reach Persona will remain straight.
Honestly i think it's just so dumb getting annoyed about there being or not being a gay romance option, either way romancing characters is literally a tiny portion of the game but yeah having the option is a nice thing
I'd recommend Harvest Moon. But that is a limited series. Maybe Stardew Valley. Otherwise Visual Novels (VN) will let you explore the protagonist roles. Similar to how the Persona explores social themes with the dialogue before the player reaches the RPG section.
Tbh personally I think Persona doesn’t need any romance stuff in it because I find a little cringe that people are really into dating virtual characters
It’s about looking at the LGBTQ+ (lesbian. Gay. Bisexual and/or Bi romantic. Queer.) representation in Persona 3. Along with speculation on what that could mean for Persona 6.
@@HardMODE- well it’s wanting to go on dates with men and women. Or men and women and non binary people. I’ve seen people say straight and gay and bi they mean both. ‘I want to go on dates with you. Kiss and cuddle.’ And ‘Babe you’re so hot right now, get over here.’ So I’m making a distinction between typically romantic stuff. Like hand holding, and dates. And sexual stuff. Like ‘I really want to touch you right now and hold you’. Sex basically. Like there’s hetero-romantic. And hetero-sexual. Homo-romantic. And homo-sexual. Like. Someone could be hetero-romantic and asexual.
As great as these games are Atlus really fumbled the bag especially on 4 & 5 because why in the games which have themes of self acceptance and breaking free of society unfair expectations/oppression did they not think that adding a queer character wouldn’t work. Even more frustrating since they were definitely planning to cut Yosuke romance and all.
Even more glaringly: Accept who you are as long as you are a guy. It wouldn't have been a major problem to make a FeMC, given that the regular MC doesn't have voice.
Because of Japanese and American social norms not quite being there when 4 came out and even still in Japan by the time 5 came out
6 might be different
Crazy they decided that adding 3 romanceable adults for the teenage protagonist was a-okay, but adding a male romace option was too crazy for them
Because it would be pandering and be the only thing people think of when thinking of the series. If anything a lgbt character should be subtle, and then later games make it uber obvious
@@mochibunnyan6556 this is coming from a society were being a gross pervert is an endearing character trait for cute little men of all ages
Crazy to think they were a lot bolder with gay romance in 2 than they would be in most following games
It's in the game with no social links that they were more open minded with the romance options 😅 it was to satisfy fujoshi apparently but at least they had some balls at that time, and Japan wasn't more LGBT friendly than today in the 90s
Apologies if this has been brought up already but im surprised you didnt mention aigis being able to romance the female protagonist. Its the only gay romantic social link in persona. It also makes femc canonically bi/pan. If you pick Elizabeth as your attendant for femc you can "spend a long time alone with her" same as the male mc. So P3P has 3 canonically sapphic characters. Again im sorry if i missed you mentioning this or if this has been brought up by others.
No worries! I have another video on P3 where I mention most of this so I hope you check it out, thanks for pointing it out though! :)
Persona has canonically 2 bisexual MC ( Tatsuya in P2 and FEMC in P3P)
I think universally we are all expecting two things from Persona 6:
• Some kind of queerness
• the color green
persona 6 is brat confirmed ?!
Dont forget two mca
trust me, persona 2 has gay, persona 4 almost had gay, so persona 6 will totally have it trust 😈
@@CherObv no gay in 5??
@@ValetinoLovebird oh you're so right actually shuake exists
If Persona 6 isn't about a bunch of sapphic delinquents beating up the prison industrial complex, then I'm going to riot. JoJo Part 4: Teens hunt down a supernatural serial killer inna quirky small town = Persona 4: Teens hunt down a supernatural serial killer in a quirky small town
JoJo part 5: Criminals attempt to defy fate and overthrow a corrupt system = Persona 5: Criminals attempt tondefy fate and overthrow a corrupt system
JoJo part 6: Rowdy women in prison = Persona 6: YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO ATLUS
P1 and Jojo Part 1: Evil Brothers
P2 and Jojo Part 2: German Soldiers
P3 and Jojo Part 3: Edgy/Emo MCs
That's the real reason why I want a FEMC in P6
Persona 3 and jojo part 3 are both about fighting tarot card based enemies until the final boss
I find it halarious, if nobody buy persona 6 on release, because "Well, they probably realeas some definitive version couple years later"
I sure ain't buying refantazio on release lol
That’s my plan, I’m not paying 60$ + for the same game twice (one has more content you just have to wait a few years)
14:15 bratsona 6 🗣🗣🗣
If they could have a gay option in the second game then why did they not put it in Persona 4 in Persona 5 especially five because the message of the game would have fit gay people really well but they never actually did it because they were too scared about what other people were going to think about it and I can't believe that they're not scared in the second game but in the fifth game they're scared okay I guess we're just too scared it's not going to work
OMG I JUMPED for joy seeing this in my recommended, I've been waiting for this!!!
Hope you enjoyed it! :)
I think as long as the characters are well written it’s a W in my book
Regardless of sexuality
Like 2 was a pure banger
In terms of story, writing, ost, etc
Why do gay characters have to be well written to justify their existence? Give me terrible, flat, one dimensional gay characters
13:22 . I do love how you didn't pay notice to the metaphorical elephant in the room. That engage removed paired endings for everyone but alear. Making everyone pan for just alear and no one else. I honestly wish paired ending got brought back just so alferd doesn't need to marry alear to not die from cancer . Post made by alfred gang
Don't get me started on those endings on Engage. Alfred was my second choice but in the end I chose Bunet, and I felt so guilty after finishing seeing what happened to him!
to recap
Persona 1: who?
Persona 2: yes kinda
Persona 3: it's complicated
Persona 4: hate crime
Persona 5: oh no
the future is looking bright lads 😮💨
4 is more yes (hateful)
P1 has two main gay male NPCs in the casino and a section of the game looks to be inspired by or similar to drag culture (though don’t quote me on the later, that’s just what I assumed).
Yeah probably
8:42 regarding Catherine, I don't really agree that Erica's handeling was as bad as beatiful lady from P3, for one thing she isnt represented as a predator. I don't know what stuff you've seen regarding Catherine but I personally felt Erica was done well for the most part, at the very least she is presented as a likable character and it is shown that transitioning made her happy (it's stated she was depressed before transitioning), which I thought was cool. The only really bad thing they do that I could see being in the same vein as P3 is that she sleeps with another character who didnt know she was trans and the other character is disappointed upon finding out (his name is Toby). Which while not great, I don't think comes close to how beatiful lady is potrayed. Full Body does attempt to rectify this by heavily implying that her and Toby become a couple in Rin's new true ending. They also touched up some iffy elements from the original like dead naming her in the credits and a transphobic line from the main character (although the tone of the original scene is that he's in the wrong for saying that). The only other major thing I can think of is that the main villain of the game considers them still male, but he is the villain and is potrayed as being evil and bad, so I don't think its a huge leap to say that, that position is evil and bad too, in my opinion. Oh, there is also a new ending that shows that she hasnt transitioned yet (one of the characters time travels to the past) and a lot of people say this ending makes her not trans but the ending heavily implies that she just hasnt done it yet. Toby mentions that he wishes he had a beatiful girl to date and Erica says "They might be closer than you think." Which to me is obviously saying that they still intends to transition and just hasn't done it yet.
Overall, Erica's potrayal isnt perfect but I think they did a good job overall.
Also Catherine Full Body includes a gay romance, which was weird not to see mentioned, Rin is established to be a boy and the main conflict of that route is Vincent confronting his repressed Homosexuality. There is a scene where Erica asks Rin how he feels about same sex couples and he says something to the effect that the only thing that matters is love and that its not a big deal. I don't know what sources you looked at previously but if they didnt mention this, I think you should look a bit deeper.
I can't link to it but on persona central an article titled "Catherine: Full Body Famitsu Details: Alternative Voice Actors for Catherine, Over 500 Stages" you can find this statment "Hashino states that Catherine: Full Body is a complete version of the concept from the previous game, which can be delivered because the sense of values has been diversified since 7 years ago. The existence of Rin, the new character, is someone who makes it possible for others to find new values represented in this game." Which I think is very telling of how Hashino actually feels about the subject.
Like the one that I hate about the newest Persona games is that there's a lot of problematic stuff with the games like how ryuji calls, cheetah out of being a perv but then himself is also a perv because of the anime when he sees Palace version of on he gets all prevey instead of I don't know kind of acknowledging how disgusting kamoshida is like there's a lot of problems with Persona 6 like how on keep saying sexualized in the series even though she's a victim of sexual abuse so just makes meaning of persona 6 is kind of tone deaf and doesn't understand how these things actually work because they did handle owns feelings about, cheetahs abuse towards her in the game pretty good but then they just kind of undo all of that by having their other characters making them look no better than him and why did ryuji have to be such a perv like the add story lines like on story about overcoming the abuse that she suffered from call Ishita but then in the camera they just kind of sexualize her a lot and they shouldn't be doing that because of on story but I guess they just forgot or something I don't know
Funny how the fujoshis seem to have arrived *after* the game that appealed to them
Honestly? I'm actually pretty hopeful for how P6 might handle queerness going forward. Hashino aside, P-Studio has changed quite a bit since his departure in 2019, and they've got a lot of new, younger hires now spearheading the future of this series who... For all we know, may be more sensitive to homophobia themselves than the veterans, or maybe even have a vested interest in acknowledging queer existence more tactfully. At the very least, that's the vibe I've been getting from their post-Royal releases.
I'm not sure if that means P6 will have lgbt romance options--I'm setting my expectations low--But they have been surprising me quite a bit lately with stuff like the Tactica marriage gag and Ryoji's confession attempt in Reload. At the very least, this feels like the closest modern Persona has ever been to that inclusion.
Man I was waiting so much for this
Thank you! :)
About the Magazine interview with jun, Didn't the interview happen after most of the People that work on persona 2 left? If so I wouldn't trust it too much.
Oh wow I had no idea the games before 3 were like that 🧐
I think the biggest thing with Hashino specifically is that he's one of the only consistent team members linking Personas 3-5 plus Catherine (as far as I've been able to research), which are the Atlus games with the most outright problematic queer content. Whether or not he's truly to blame for a lot of these issues is definitely up in the air, but the fact that it's all games he's happened to direct, each with mostly different writing staff, taken in combination with some misogynistic stuff he's said in interviews, does make me raise my eyebrows a bit. I think the big thing on determining whether or not he's truly to blame will be whether his future games like Metaphor, and whatever he works on after that, continue to include problematic content like this.
i posted this really long and thought out comment and it seems it didn't post for whatever reason... now im really sad
That sucks! It doesn't seem to be hidden so I have no clue why that happened :(
Oh? start ocean has ? Gonna buy it then, thanks!
Imagine persona 6 gameplay will be like 2 protagonist instead of like one group gang thing there Will be 2 Group or gang with five members including their self or something (i’m just guessing what will be the sequel)
Two protagonists would break the persona format, you can’t be two people at the same time.
Albert really love to see a female protagonist and even a even a Yuri type of relationships in persona 6
P5X shows they want Chinese audience. Losing those queer fans are the same as losing Femc fans. So to keep the Chinese market at reach Persona will remain straight.
There is no persona homophobic fans.... hard to believe that
Persona fans when Persona 1, Persona 2, Persona 2 2; Electric Boogaloo
That's what mainline Shin Megami Tensei is for.
I hope that persona 6 does have a gay romance option
Honestly i think it's just so dumb getting annoyed about there being or not being a gay romance option, either way romancing characters is literally a tiny portion of the game but yeah having the option is a nice thing
maybe they are just european.
Fun fact: Persona 1996 as you called it has a more well known title being "revelations persona"
Go Woke Get Yoked
get a job buddy
Only gay here is you 🤘
i hope they dont add any kind of american gay culture in those games
that all you care about sex not if the game is fun
@@AL-np1im We can care about multiple things at the same time.
I don't have problems with Persona not having any Gay romance options.
Keyword: "I"
Yeah I don’t have a problem either, I’d much rather have a female protagonist if you want to date the men
I'd recommend Harvest Moon. But that is a limited series. Maybe Stardew Valley. Otherwise Visual Novels (VN) will let you explore the protagonist roles. Similar to how the Persona explores social themes with the dialogue before the player reaches the RPG section.
Tbh personally I think Persona doesn’t need any romance stuff in it because I find a little cringe that people are really into dating virtual characters
@@HardMODE- Yeah I do agree, especially since it just causes wars between who they think is the best one to romance
"Jun is an incredibly well-written character with a fleshed out personality and backstory" STOP THE CAP LMAOOOOOOOOOO
what even is this video bro
It’s about looking at the LGBTQ+ (lesbian. Gay. Bisexual and/or Bi romantic. Queer.) representation in Persona 3. Along with speculation on what that could mean for Persona 6.
*persona 2
@@hannabanana1031tf does Bi romantic mean
@@HardMODE- well it’s wanting to go on dates with men and women. Or men and women and non binary people. I’ve seen people say straight and gay and bi they mean both. ‘I want to go on dates with you. Kiss and cuddle.’ And ‘Babe you’re so hot right now, get over here.’
So I’m making a distinction between typically romantic stuff. Like hand holding, and dates. And sexual stuff. Like ‘I really want to touch you right now and hold you’. Sex basically.
Like there’s hetero-romantic. And hetero-sexual. Homo-romantic. And homo-sexual. Like. Someone could be hetero-romantic and asexual.
Asexual as in ‘I don’t find people hot. I have no desire for sex.’ Regardless if that person is a significant other or not