Timestamps and music are in the description! This is my first video, so any feedback, advice, ideas, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks for reading Channel: th-cam.com/channels/CI7_gsp0EPwunViH4kPAAQ.html Twitter: x.com/Choicental
We gotta give Persona props though, because now mainline SMT is growing much larger. I mean, look at how excited the people were for Nocturne HD and look how SMT V Vengeance is doing at the moment. This is also backed up by the fact that it’s multi platform this time around (fucking finally). Regardless, Persona will always sell more due to its aesthetics, its characters, its stories, their messages… and overall it’s more relatable and approachable for casual audiences. Which is a huge reason as to why Persona is also so loved by western fans, as opposed to SMT, that is still pretty niche over here (though it’s now growing).
True. But sadly this also brings bad with it. 2 of persona 5 spinoffs could have easily been megaten games. Strikers couldve been devil summoner raidou and tactica couldve easily been a devil survivor game. But it gets a p5 coat because it will sell better. Which is a shame imo.
I'll give you an example of another game franchise that perfectly illustrated why Persona is more popular than SMT...Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem was a niche franchise that fans loved for its strategy and difficulty...like SMT. But it was selling really poorly until Intelligent Systems changed its formula: adding a casual mode that disables permanent death and a relationship system like social links that promotes character interaction. You can say Fire Emblem "Persona-fied" itself to be way more appealing to the general public.
The interesting thing about Fire Emblem is that the mechanics that helped it appeal to a wider audience were already in the series before it became as popular as it is now, character relationships were a thing since FE4 and casual mode was added in FE12. That being said, Awakening still made itself beginner friendly with the ability to level grind and being fairly easy by FE standards, so it’s not too big of a surprise that Awakening was the one to save the series
@@Choicentalthis is funny cause SMT has a game that a blend of the two even with fire emblem elements which is Devil survivor. I’m surprised they never revived that game.
@@TyandOnGoing Yeah I do think that if Atlus wanted mainline SMT to be a bit more personable to appeal more to the mainstream,drawing more from from the DS series(DS1 especially) is the way to go. It was a good compromise as while it still held the general spirit of mainline SMT about about choosing an ideology and exploring the pros/cons,it was wrapped up in much more personable story and characters that weren't just mouthpieces for the alignment system. Hell,if they wanted to do a psuedo-social link system without turning it into a Persona-clone,doing it like DS2 did wouldn't be a bad thing That or make another strategy series based off it. It's been too long for DS3.
Because Persona fans can't live in a world and STRENGTH, and feel bad when a demon eats their mom. Jokes aside. Persona by design, was made to be easier to digest.
I enjoy both series, but I’m so seek of this endless social links in modern persona, so in the end I hate this games. Both in P4 and P5, i was just burned to the moment, when plot finally stated to uncoil. I know people like persona for its social links, but it’s just not for me.
I'll stop you right there and say from the onset Persona was always designed to be more popular than SMT. They outright state that when developing Persona 3 and 4 that they made it to bring mainstream audiences into their rpg series.
Need a source on that. It's widely known that they developed P3 with the intention that it could be their last game as they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Mainstream appeal could be an intention they had too, but they had no way of knowing if it would truly land or not during development.
Personally, I like Persona more because of 1. Setting: not just the highschool, but it takes place in a setting that allows for some relax time whereas in SMT it always seems like stakes are 100% all the time with no rest in the story 2. Its more character driven since you are building a bond with the characters which I feel is more fun than it being a solo journey 3. The music is banger 4. The artstyle is just more appealing to me
this guy gets it. some people don't WANT to turn the intensity to 11 and have a super hard challenge with no story. It's the same thing that people who play Elden Ring think about people who don't want to play it: "oh its just too hard for you". That's even why some people I know don't want to play Yakuza or SSBU, they want Mario Kart or Stardew Valley. Violent, combat-centered games aren't their deal.
@@grandmasteryoda2605 SMT doesn't have "no story" just because the stakes are always high and it's challenging. Tell me you've never played an SMT game without telling me you've never played an SMT game 😂
I understand everything other than the music point and the fact that the art styles are quite literally the same. If you said aesthetic/ ui style, then yes, I would have to agree with you depending on the time of day. And on the point of music, SMT music slaps just as hard if not more in some cases. I understand it’s a subjective opinion, but give Meguro some credit when it comes to SMT. I’d love to put you onto some of SMT’s hits. They’re definitely a different vibe, but SMT’s music is great, nonetheless.
Ultimately, I think Persona and mainline SMT are two separate fanbases. People like Persona for the characters, stories that hold life lessons, and calendar system. People like SMT for the expendability of demons, freedom of choice, and really dark stories with multiple endings that aren’t ever really confirmed to be canon, making it all a self-determined story. They both have their own appeals and, despite holding the same roots, have managed to turn into different game series’ entirely. I think Persona is meant to be more approachable for a lot of reasons, while SMT is meant to be the devs not holding back on their initial vision of what they wanted the series to be. I think it’s really cool how incredibly bold SMT as a series is. There’s never really a good ending where everything is resolved and nothing bad will happen ever again. Typically, people die and bad things happen regardless of what you do. Meanwhile, Persona DOES have bad endings, but there’s ALWAYS a good ending. One where the main storyline is resolved and everyone can go back to their normal lives. I personally prefer that, but I’m not opposed to SMT’s approach at all. Like I said, I think the SMT and Persona fanbases are separate and different because their respective game series’ are separate and different. I just think that’s cool. There’s not really a point to this comment other than sharing my thoughts on this.
SMT IV Apocalypse Ending has two endings one where everything ends up happy and perfect and another where it's an edgy power fantasy. Now SMT V Vengeance has two endings one where you also have another Happy Go Lucky Ending and an Edgy one
@@renren47618 that’s two examples out of how many? A lot. Not saying you’re wrong, but still. My point is that SMT typically has many more dark endings and not many good ones.
@@Angry_JetpackI wouldn't call most of the endings dark either and their context within the plot matters. Most of the time, SMT games have an ending (or multiple ones) where peace and the player's ideals are finally achieved and where hope shines through. Only the original Strange Journey is an outlier and the remake "fixed" it by giving it omgyay better happy endings for Law and Chaos. The thing that makes SMT darker is that there are more consequences and more stakes because of their harsher settings. Also the good yay super happy endings of IVa and VV are a direct result of Persona's popularity and a desperate attempt from SMT's devs to badly imitate Persona imo.
@@XelchanTheBrave SMT III, you either listen to a guy that hates you and helped start the apocalypse, accept one of your friends’ absurd and extremist ideals, fail to make a new world entirely, become the new Lucifer and destroy everything until there is not a single thing left, or reset everything to the way it was before and delay the inevitable return of the conflict SMT IV, you either kill everyone in Tokyo with Angels, kill everyone in Mikado with Demons, or kill everyone in the world with a black hole. Only one “good” ending, and that destroys Mikado and the livelihood of all the residents there anyway Two examples is enough. Not wrong to say they align with the ideals of the protagonist. They do. That’s the point. Still, the endings are dark. There may be peace at the end of some of them, but that doesn’t eliminate all of the conflict like endings in Persona. Still always going to be lingering effects to the choice you made as the player
Personally I think it's because SMT is more philosophical about the concept of chaos and order while persona is more about human struggles and friendship.
I don't even get why people make such a big deal out of it, ofc. persona games will have a broader mainstream appeal over other SMT titles. Persona is far more relatable to the average consumer, I mean just look at SMTV since it's the most recent, every single narrative in that game have ties to Mesopotamian mythology which ain't bad, but the story is written in a way that you need to know your mythology to truly appreciate the references. Persona on the other hand, everyone can relate to another human in some way and you don't have to understand the psychological aspects of those games to enjoy the plot... heck my friend thought it just was Jojo's bizzare adventure spin off(yes he don't play games) with silly teenagers having stands. SMTV:V however appeals better to a general audience due to the simple addition of more human to human dialogues, even if that dialogue ain't exactly masterfully written(at least in the English translation). I like both series thou, give me any SMT-related game and I'll probably play it.
Woah, yeah that sounds like a series record. That’s more than P4 Golden’s steam release and I remember that being huge. I think there might be a lot of people who emulate the games on PC so now that 5 is on steam it’s probably blowing up
I'm pretty sure that's just the sales of the original release or maybe the combined sales of the two but Vengeance itself seems to have only about 500k+ sales in the first 3 days which is still a very very very good start, definitely helps that it got a release on all main platforms.
Tbh i don't think it is actually going to get MUCH popularity, unless Atlus patches the nocturne steam port and ports other entries in the series. Emulating is still quite a niche practice, aside from people who emulate pokemon games I don't think that someone who is a CASUAL will ever actually go through with emulating smt mainline series or its spin-offs entries.
Even though SMT may not be as popular as Persona (for now, I think a lot of people really seem to like SMTVV) the best thing Persona did was take the burden of being the sales and mainstream leader off of SMT. So now SMT can focus on what it does best without having to worry as much about selling well. It's really starting to pay off and I'm glad to see it
Tho I highly doubt Atlus is a company to keep providing fan loved projects if they dont really sell. Their recent dlc plans kinda show that they are pretty much focussing on just making money. (Probably because sega bought the company)
I'll play devil's advocate (Ha!) and argue that ATLUS lived through bankruptcy after Index went under. I wonder how many mention that history after SEGA bought them off.
It seems the common section in this video has completely overlooked. One of the most significant reasons why persona will always outsell shin Megami. I agree with many of the points you mentioned, but without equal the most important point is marketability . Yes, persona has social links and a chill vibe going on, but it’s more than that. SMT is without equal one of the most blasphemous franchises out there. For example, in Saudi Arabia, Pokémon is not allowed because some Pokémon look “Satanic”. Now imagine a game about religion and Satan himself. SMT five is one of the best games I have ever played period, but I cannot recommend this game to half the people I know. A 15-year-old can play persona and enjoy it despite the fact that it says rated M for mature, but the very nature of SMT means it will forever be accessible to the majority of gamers out there. A game that is about making friends and social links is by nature More accessible as a result. I mean, one game is about joining your friends to kill Demons, and the other is about joining demons to kill your friends. Which one sounds like it’s gonna have a larger audience.
Regarding what you said about Persona being an M rated game still played by teens, does it mean that, in a scenario in which I have teenage kids, I can let them play Persona and leave mainline SMT for when they grow up, am I right?
Honestly great first video, I like how you mentioned relatability and I think that: 1. that's precisely what gets most people into the persona series. 2. persona fans simply don't bother to give smt a chance, and if they do it's not what they expect because they want more of persona, I feel like not many people can appreciate smt's themes. In spite of how great the smt games may be they simply do not appeal like the persona games do. (ashamed to say that I've only played smt3 and only recently that I've heard of smtv getting a new dlc that I want to try it out, I probably can't be considered a smt fan but my renewed interest in the series makes me want to see more of it and I can only hope more people give it a shot)
Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback. No need to feel ashamed! I think as long as you enjoyed your time with SMT 3 and hold an interest in the series, you can consider yourself a fan. And if not, everyone has their preferences and it's just the way things are meant to be
SMT doesn’t appeal to me simply due to how minimal most stories and characters are. It heavily focuses on the gameplay with that gameplay being tough for newcomers to me as well. Persona is just more fun to me gameplay wise because it’s much more easier and approachable in comparison and I honestly feel I’m still challenged(yes, I’m serious). I love that it focuses a lot on characters and stories as well and I feel it gives a good balance unlike something like SMT. I also don’t care much for its edginess. The only thing that’s interesting to me is the alignment system and how the point of it is to show that there’s no right answer for reshaping the world but writers proceed to make them biased as hell from the videos I saw on them(Poor law guys).
@@digimonlover1632 I can definitely say that smt3 is among the hardest games I've ever played and I can understand where you come from, and it's true smt is not a game for everyone and the value of it's story heavily depends on the player eince it's very much all about morals and the concept of oneself instead of your relation to others like persona (short term "power of friendship"). Persona has everything smt's story is about, while adding relatability and character interaction to the mix so most people can enjoy it. Tldr everything you said is very valid I just think that when persona fans try to migrate to smt (particularly talking about smt3 idk about the others) they just get disappointed at the expectation they had vs what it really is
@@pedrol5004 I explicitly stated that I've played smt3, so if you disagree with my interpretation, elaborate instead of questioning whether or not I played it
it goes over a lot of people's heads that soul hackers 2 did experiment with a good amount of the ideas that the persona fan base wanted. talking protagonist, female protagonist, all adult cast, essentially social links with a more adult aesthetic, story choices that affect points with your friends. it came out to lower than expected sales and pretty mediocre reception though. i think a lot of people have a tendency to say they really want something, but it becomes a very fleeting enjoyment once they do get it. like how people really wanted a new pokemon snap game but the hype for it only lasted a short time.
Good point. Not just with Atlus, but with media in general, it seems people think they want certain things but actually don’t, and oftentimes the most successful products take off because they provide things that people didn’t know they ever wanted
I disagree with this mainly due to execution. Yes people want those things, but they want them done well. Soul hackers 2 experimented sure but its characters had minimal depth the dungeons were unabashedly terrible and the gameplay was devisive to say the least. I think what soul hackers 2 did well was the protag and its messaging but when buried under unconfident and unpolished gameplay, it suffers. Not to mention soul hackers kind of erred on the end of WAYYYY too much talking. There's a middle ground that I think can be achieved with refinement. I think the misunderstanding here is people never really got what they wanted, they got a poorly executed version of it. And i dislike this notion that people "don't know what they want" when they're saying exactly what they want and they're given something "Similar" but usually with lower effort and poor execution and when its not liked, suddenly its the consumer's fault.
New Pokemon Snap sold millions of copies and SH2's terrible word of mouth and reviews are based on people having issues with pretty much everything except the things you mentioned. But it's no fun if you let facts get in the way of crafting a spicy take, fam!
I got an idea to make SMT mainstream all they need to do is to bring back the buddy system from SMT 4 but only taken up by waifus who represent law, chaos, and neutral. Whatever route you pick is the goddess who will create a new world with you.
@@noblegalifreyan4551 it’s not for me I don’t need the waifus it’s for the masses and SMT is filled with waifus regardless cleopatra, idun, ame no uzume, pixie
Persona is fine, it's flashy, cool beats and the settings are relatable for alot of fellas. Personally! SMT series is much better for me since I'm a sucker for the determined/dedicated gameplay with niches. Not every game has to be appealing to the casual public. In fact SMT fans in japan and west are happy that it's niche because Atlus is the only main japanese company that delivers a more unforgiving retro style jrpg that no other companies do anymore unless you dedicate 50 or 100 hours to reach that one super boss in some other Square Enix jrpg ... and that's it.
I think SMT sales will increase but I don’t expect expect them to match Persona. I have friends who regard SMT the same way they do Persona 1 and 2. That “I want to play it someday but probably never will” zone
@@Choicental I believe that's the combined sales of both the version or just the original but SMTV:V is still definitely proving itself to be a huge success, reportedly 500k+ sales in first 3 days and pretty much everyone (journalist, new and old fans) is keeping it in high regard with it's upgraded yet familiar mechanics and an all improved story. I'm very hopeful that with this early success Vengeance is having and all the hype surrounding Metaphor, Atlus and Sega are ready to place more money on the 1st and 3rd creative studios so that we may possibly get new entries that aren't in development hell and maybe even remakes or atleast modern rereleases of their other entries like Digital Devil Saga and SMT4/4A.
It's most likely the high school setting and social links. I am not sure about relatability being such a strong factor, since in both series, you handle a protagonist who is pretty much taken out of his element and given supernatural powers, something that nobody can relate to irl. And SMT is still somewhat niche, even with Vengeance in the mix. From what I've heard - haven't tried it myself yet - P5R is actually a lot easier than the vanilla version, so there's also the fact that the most accessible and widespread version of the game is still several layers of easy unlike SMT5 even when played on Casual or Normal. Perhaps some of that is for the wrong reasons (Okumura's castle seems more tolerable in P5R with all the new gameplay additions, but I still remember how much of a hassle was in the original).
While Persona isnt completely relatable, I think it’s familiar enough that many people would want to live a life like the protags in the game. I haven’t gotten to Royal yet either, but from what I’ve seen though, re-releases of Atlus games always sell better than the originals. OG P5 was the first Atlus RPG I played and I had a lot of trouble with it lol. I was really bad so it’s a good thing I didn’t start with SMT. I found Atlus through Catherine and Persona 4 Arena though.
Isolating the supernatural aspects obviously makes them seem unrelateable. Persona's entire identity is about finding oneself and facing difficulties a lot of teens have to face, hence the school setting. Smt is more focused on asking moral questions when it comes to narrative. Not really relatable but still valuable. So yeah, relatability definitely plays a role.
I'd say with the recent news of SMT VV selling half a million copy in 3 days, SMT being stucked to one platform was the true indicator of the series being not mainstream. SMT doesn't appeal to console player as it does with PC player like for eg me, I played my first SMT game (SMT 4) on the 3ds emulator in my pc.
Hence the sales on handhelds for the games have been a linear positive with each release after 3? The series was never going to hit big and wide like persona from the fact that the premise of both games catered to different audiences. Sure it going multiplat is a change but there are sales info of VV still proving switch handheld being the lead in contrast to ps5 based on recent famitsu sales chart.
SMT V sold a million while being a switch exclusive, what the fuck are you talking about? Multiplat approach helps for sure, but SMT not being a hit is just due to the nature of it not catering to every audience.
I think it's just accesibility, all SMT games are either PS2, DS and 3DS. During the PS2 era SMT was pretty obscure, just like persona, but while Persona got direct continuity (P3 -> P4 -> P5) with re releases and spinnoff in between main games, making the brand relevant every few years. SMT got huge voids of contents on inconsistents systems, just look at the progression: Nocturne -> DDS1&2 -> Raidou1&2 -> Devil Survivor 1&2 -> Strange Journey -> SH -> SMT IV None of them are directly related to each other in gameplay, cast, story style or even plataform. And the space between SMT Nocturne to SMT IV was over 11 years, being controversial due to going from full 3D to a semi 3D with 2D battles, while also being a Mature rated game on the 3DS, so overall it was unatractive to new players (Strange Journey also suffered from being one of the 10 M rated games on DS). SMT VV has sold 500k copies in it's firts 3 days on sale, those numbers actually are close to what P3R sold, it likely won't sell more than it, but I can see it range from 700K to 800k at the end of the week. So yeah, SMT only really needed to be on plataforms where people wanted to play it, and also be on a reasonable tecnicall level (I'm pretty sure if SMT IV was a PS3/PS4 game it likely would have sold more than the 600k it sold it's first two years on 3DS, and by extension SMT V would be more succefull). Right now SMT is expanding as a series, Atlus games don't really sell that much, even with 1 million sales SMT V was a top 7 seller for Atlus, since only P5, P5R, P5S, P4G on steam and P3R had sold over a million copies, so it's likely Atlus will put more atention and resources on SMT to allow it to grow, insted of just being the Persona guys.
I just wonder if they stopped releasing 3D SMT games on big consoles because Persona had begun overshadowing it, or did Persona start overshadowing it because they stopped releasing mainline SMT games?
Tbh I think most of it is due to how heavy the stories of SMT tend to be. Take 4 for example, it's so damn easy to get attached to Jonathan, Walter and Isabeau, and the game ends up breaking your heart after the alignment lock with their fates, on top of that there's many different endings and none of them are really endings, they all have severe consequences for the world. On top of that the "best" ending for SMT4 is still bloody depressing with The White just erasing everything. SMT is always gonna be the artistic father of Persona, and while I'm personally not a fan of Persona's more recent entries like P5 and P5R due to the staggering amount of time investment required, I'll always appreciate it for allowing ATLUS to continue making those experimental titles. Now if only we can get a Digital Devil Saga duology remaster.
As a former SMT elitist, I think SMT and Persona are the perfect sister series to each other. They compliment each other perfectly. When I get wiped out from an emotional Persona game, all I wanna do is play an immersive, dangerous, solo journey about deciding the fate of the world. And after I do that, I just want a relaxed, slower paces journey of growing bonds and getting to know people. 2024 is basically the perfect slate. A remake of the 2nd best Persona game that fixes a lot of the iffy parts of that game, developed by people who grew up playing the original game(P5Scramble team actually went on to make Reload). Then a greatly expanded version of the game with the best combat and exploration in the series, with a new fantastic story to boot, all to finish with a brand new title that is a mix of both worlds.
In my case, I do try to get into classic SMT to see where Persona originates from and I'm quite fascinated how such a spinoff that originated from SMT managed to overshadow the main series itself. I do really really like how the original series presents itself too and I'm not closed to OG SMT. I just think I will still like Persona more as a whole because I'm a fluffy dork that loves his husbandos, epic stories of friendship and deep lore and explained stories with multiple entires. I don't hate the more freeform approach of SMT, making its story more on the side, focusing on the dungeon crawling and gameplay aspect. While I will still prefer Persona by a mile, I acknowledged where it came from, and I think SMT is pretty neato! Kinda like how in Fire Emblem I have no preferences and I am not closed off on either the non permadeath games and the more classic, older games. I just like everything.
Because not everyone wants to get beaten up and robbed by a Mokoi or have Walter buff a boss. The early game of SMT 4 left irreparable damage 10/10 experience
I think I got lucky with Minotaur lol. I’ve played that segment of the game 2 or 3 times and it’s never taken me more than a couple tries to beat him. At least he has one of the best themes in the series
I played my first ever SMT with vengeance and i really appreciate how different it is to persona. I like how demons are given personalities and wish and goals. The law and chaos and neutral endings give a lot of depth. Its a very complex game conceptually so I understand why it wouldn’t be popular… also i like making ultra stacked demons and i loved fusion in persona so this was a win.
I find it pretty ironic how I could never get into the Persona games for the reasons people love the games so much. I get extremely stressed out over having to manage relationships, whether real or simulated. And having to do it within a time limit hanging over my head sounds like my personal torture. By contrast, SMT more aligns with what I like in video games by focusing more directly on the combat and exploration as well as having me challenge and grow my own philosophies and ideals. I dunno, I acknowledge that my tastes are odd but at best I'm neutral to Persona and at worst questioned why people love the series. After watching the video, I can see it but only doubled down for me that I will never get into the series
Man I have the same opinion but like exactly flipped 😂 Goes to show that different people have different tastes so you can't make something for everyone. That's probably why smt and persona have been able to diverge without either series going completely dark, there's space enough for both series
I have played Persona 2, 3, 4, 5 and I like them a lot. SMT Devil Survivor was also cool to play. Strange Journey bored me pretty fast, Persona Q also. I think It's time to try SMT 4
I haven’t played Strange Journey or Persona Q yet, but I always found the first person dungeon exploration from Strange Journey to be a turn off. I think you might like SMT 4, but one thing I’ll warn you about is relatively early on the game a certain area will open up and it might be a bit difficult to figure out where you’re supposed to go. Still, though, once you figure it out, you’ll be playing a great game with a pretty special soundtrack
The main thing really boils down to a lack of them advertising a product when one was reaching so many people. From Soft games are just as combat focused as SMT, yet see massive success, Atlus took quick money over pushing a game that has the same amount of depth and care involved in it when you play it. And I don't blame them, they were going bankrupt. But Yeah, Persona Overshadows SMT because Atlus makes it so.
I came to say this as well. I also think the argument about it being a relatable setting is a bit silly; Final Fantasy doesn't have a particularly relatable setting in any of its games, really, but it's one of the best selling franchises of all time. Shin Megami Tensei's lower popularity is absolutely a marketing and corporate strategy issue more than anything. Keep in mind the first SMT game we got in the West was... Jack bros.
I'll say this out of speculation. Persona 5 was my first SMT game and SMT 5 base game was my second. I didn't expect SMT 5 to be like Persona, but i did kinda expect it to be like Devilman where the themes of tragedy and betrayal take precedence. The themes are there, but they're not very convincing. I think SMT could benefit with more character development and having main characters spend more time with each other before Armageddon begins I do prefer SMT over Persona, but no amount of retrospectives and video essays on Nocturne can convince me that SMT doesn't have to change its minimal story tell. Yes, SMT games are good as games, but not as memorable stories. Other than that, yeah, the name/moniker definitely hurts marketing Japanese media has been more popular than ever, but people hardly say the original Japanese titles of anime and games. Some titles like Jujutsu Kaisen may be an exception, but that doesn't really mean anything I think SMT can actually benefit from being an anime ngl
Also in recent news, SMT 5 Vengeance actually did sell more units within a week than P3R I'm happy, but I wonder how new players will react to the story and characters Ngl, there are still several noticeable weaknesses.
That’s good to hear. I enjoyed V but the side quests aside from the dlc ones were repetitive and the main story was a letdown imo. I haven’t had a chance to play Vengeance yet. Hoping I can get to it some time this summer. From what I’ve seen, they’ve been addressing everyone’s criticisms, like expanding on the existing cast’s moments, toning down the level scaling, adding another dungeon, adding another story, etc.
A lot of things suddenly got popular over here despite being long running series cause of particular entries acting as a sort of gateway. Like Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure used to a niche thing but now even frat boys know about it cause of the anime. Yakuza was kinda under the radar in its first decade now I can’t even keep up with all of em cause it exploded in popularity. The name is definitely a contributor, they either can’t pronounce it, don’t wanna pronounce it, or don’t wanna be considered a weeb or gay or something.
Interesting video, I can't say I played many SMT games, but I do realize how much Persona leans on it for it's start. It's sorta like how you can have 1 idea and you hit the fork in the road for what to do.
I do think while Persona will always be more popular and some parts of the fanbase have conflict between the 2 games for varying reasons. SMT I think is also getting more popular BECAUSE of Persona. SMT V doesn't just sell a total of 1.6 million (Original + Vengeance), because the series itself got more popular, but I think it's because Atlus is going more mainstream as a whole, and that's thanks to Persona. SMT and Persona is sort of helping each other in weird way, Metaphor seems to be combining the better aspects of both games (The Social Link aspect of Persona, with the combat of SMT). Which is what makes me so hyped for Metaphor, because it feels like a love letter to both Persona and SMT, aswell as a celebration of Atlus as a whole.
I’m not too sure how many share this sentiment, but I actually enjoy SMT much more than I enjoy Persona, and I started with Persona. Even playing both P3R and SMTVV recently, I prefer SMTVV. Regardless of how well SMT sells in the west, there’s just something about SMT that will always be my preference.
My BIGGEST ISSUE with SMT V was that the world was boring to play and explore. We'd see the desert like world and demons, but it felt incredibly isolated and empty. There was no one really out there but you and your demons that shout attack moves and enemies. The demons didn't have enough personality to justify it and party members felt more like disposable soldiers I slotted in and out when the need arose. I like the difficulty and the atmosphere they were trying to set up, but the artstyle felt drab and it carried over across the whole game. there was no flair to like persona always has. Persona also has very feel good and relatable stories within and around it everything revolves around the player, their emotions, and character situations. In SMT V the world is sorta dead on its own and you are just along for the ride trying to find something. Two demons would have a turf war, but the quest and gameplay would boil down to do you side with me or them and then a fight would ensue for the other one. It feels like it clearly had a lower budget than persona. It all felt kinda tacky the gameplay felt disjointed. The world essentially boiled down to go here check out that statue, go here pick up that 3d shape, and go here find the little demons. With Persona 5 compared to this game it felt like this game is a downgrade. The main character looks goofy and is not super appealing. Everything clashes like its just Atlus trying to copy a formula instead of innovate. It felt like playing the neglected depressed child IP in Atlus. They knew fans like SMT 3 but they pushed out 5 because they had extra left over from persona 5. There was not even that much marketing for it either which was a shame. I wanted this game to be good, but it came out a mediocre product.
Atlus really outdid themselves with Persona. Shows to go how far and powerful a spin off can be when done right. Would love to see Sega do the same thing to the sonic franchsie and make spin off of the other supporting charcters since their all unique and have different capabilities. Persona is so goated. Never really had a miss yet. Persona 6 will be delish 🤤
Persona also has the the advantage of being significantly easier to understand and enjoy than smt. Remember this is a genre that something like final fantasy has pretty much abandoned, and for pretty realistic and justified reasons, if you don’t like turn based games persona likely has a chance of changing your mind with it’s power fantasy. If you don’t like turn based games, loading up something smt 3 is NOT going to change your mind. You gotta know how to read the room and play your cards right, and that’s something persona can do that smt can’t because persona doesn’t give a damn who thinks it’s “too easy”.
Not only in gameplay, story too. Modern persona and even Persona 2 to an extent provide a relatively straight forward and relatable story for the player, whereas in SMT it's more abstract and can be pretty overwhelming at the alignment lock or even depressing at them. Like man when I ended up getting the law route on SMT4 I was so fucking mad upon seeing blasted tokyo. Like SMT is just a type of game that will always have a hard time reaching mainstream popularity just because of how it's made, the stories aren't typical, can be hard to actually get into, the art style can be almost alien at times and then at least with modern SMT games there's always a wall for you to face rather early on like Matador or Minotaur to just rock your shit unless you begin to pay attention to the games mechanics. Ultimately though it's also one of those franchises that once it clicks with you, it clicks and you begin to love it.
I appreciate it. I’m planning on uploading vids about a bunch of different video game topics so don’t be surprised if the next video isn’t SMT related. The one after that will be though so there are still plenty of SMT/Persona videos to come
@@Choicental Oh, for sure. I'm interested in SMT/Persona, but I haven't actually played one yet, which is kind of how I ended up here. Either way, look forward to seeing your future content!
Like everyone else says, Persona revolves around a more casual storyline whereas players can relate toward its characters, all the while having its own unique turn-based combat system that is beginner friendly to those who are new to the JRPG genre and still engagingly fun to veterans. Players would enjoy interactions between characters which basically balances out with the dungeon crawling grind. Not to mention that the soundtrack provides to the immersion, both during a casual story and in battle. Meanwhile, SMT leans toward the darker side of the same battle system. Because of the constant tense atmosphere, it becomes a game that makes you feel you shouldn't let your guard down. This is especially true with battles that prove brutal and difficult; like some of the games are infamous for tutorial battles to kill you right off the bat because of the hilarious RNG. Aside from that, the main focus of SMT is the execution of its morals-driven plot, paying little to no heed to actual relationships between its characters. It emphasizes the struggles of humanity against demonic entities and varying worldviews that decides how they would deal with them. The focus on philosophy gives the series a foreboding aura that only a few young audiences would be able to tolerate, thus giving it a narrower range of players. TL;DR Persona's themes are easier to be enjoyed by all ages, while SMT is oriented to a more mature playerbase. With that said, I am one of the few young gamers that absolutely adores SMT. It's a series that surprisingly clicked well with my interests. Although, Persona was my introduction to Atlus games and it did give a really strong impression for a game that was only supposed to be a pick-me-up until I decided it was worth investing my free time in.
Nice video. Thoughs: 1- this video comes at a time when Sony and Microsoft are betting less on console exclusives and being more open about allowing games to be multi-platform. This is releveant to the discussion because Smt5V being sucessfull is connected to it being in all consoles. 2- Also, looking back, the fact that SMT4 was only only the 3ds kept it out of view of most western audiances. 3- 2:58 persona is actually just final fantasy? 4- it makes sense that atlus doubles down on their most sucessfull product. at the same time i get tired of all the p5 spin off, specially since imo the original game was nothing special.
I think also Persona is just a better franchise in many respects other than it's relatability and accessibility. I think we can all agree that Persona has a SUPER strong sense of art direction and music direction that frankly makes it stand out not only over mainline SMT, but just other RPGs in general.
@zedorian6547 I really can't. It's not to say other RPGs dont have good visuals or music, but none are as visually or audibly striking as Persona imho.
Highly disagree. Many smt games have a very distinct art style. There is no game with an art style similar to smt3 or for example soulhackers. And how are they better games?
@@NeekOW2 at least you added that it was your subjective opinion lol I mean I enjoy Persona as much as the next person though I REALLY wish they would drop the high school setting.
Both series are great, the storytelling and characters are quite deep and entertaining from the Persona series to me personally. Still the PS5 SMTV is fun too( like an adult version of Pokémon) collecting demons and using them in fights. If they do remakes of the SMT series similar to SMTV , I would actually get them all. I already plan to get all the Persona remakes and Metaphor:ReFantazio
Just saw your first video and the first persona game I played was P5 Royal. Since then, I have been hooked. I just bought SMT3HD for switch and idk how I feel about it yet though.
As a personal fan, I really wanna try out shin megami tensei, but I’m on the fence about it because they are so fundamentally different. I’d love to see an objective review of shin megami tensei that does not compare it to persona to see if I should give it a shot.
I think most people can’t really help but compare the two if you’ve played one or the other. If I were you I’d just watch a no commentary gameplay video
As someone who played p3p, p4, p5, p5r, smt4, smt5 and as fan of the usual rpg formula that smt follows, what I can say is that the smt games I played have a flowless battle system thats rewarding to people who actually wanna learn it, but smt storylines to me sucks, you feel so isolated from other characters that a better comparisson would be an edgy pokemon, but in pokemon you can get atached to your party, while in smt you can't (unless its a dlc demon, they can be carried pretty much the whole game, like artemis in smt5) smt, to me, has this one big problem and I feel like most of smt5 being compared to p5r is because the trailer sold smt5 as a persona game basically
@@strangedogg5068not really a problem. As isolation is exactly what they are going for in pretty much every smt game. Especially 3 and 5. Not liking it is subjective. As I absolutely love isolation in videogames.
@@GameTimeNLL in sm5v there were a lot of interactions and living companions with you for the most of the game tbh, the world is at stake you cant get attached or you will get betrayed and killed by others who want to change the world
Awesome vid, dude! Honestly, watching this makes me want to replay SMT IV. I wish they'd port that one to the Switch, though I'm grateful we have III and V. How great would it be if we got some kind of SMT Collection on modern consoles? Wishful thinking
Personally speaking, with the success of Vengeance, i think SMT will get more popular, even if it's not to the degree of Persona's. I love both series for similar and completely different reasons
Persona is just made with more mainstream appeal in mind while SMT is for people who are already into RPG combat. The life sim elements balance out the dungeon crawling and makes really long RPGs more digestable for newcomers.
Persona: with a power of friendship, we can defeat demons and all evil things SMT: Fck friendship, let me social linking with all demons in existence, especially pixie and kill gods for fun
I love the Persona series since it got me hooked with jrpgs, hell i spent more time in the Persona series(mainline, never really played the spin-offs) then any other game series! But watching this video and others I think I'll try Vengeance has looks very interesting now that it's free from the switch!
It really is just 2 words: Social Links. I prefer SMT and think it has better gameplay, but people really like the social aspect. It's also happening in Fire Emblem where people are preferring the entries with a lot of social character content compared to the others.
While I can recognize their merit, personally (heh) I find the general gameplay loop of modern Persona games to be rather uninteresting. I'm not really one for planning out days, or choosing who to spend my time with during the week. In fact, I'll usually blast through the dungeons because I'm there for the dungeon crawling and battles aspect. This is part of the reason why I vastly prefer Persona 1 and 2's way of handling things, because the game flows naturally and isnt 100+ hours. Not that I think that the more modern way of Persona games is bad, just definitely not for me. Which is also why I just happen to prefer SMT as a whole lmfao.
Cant say,im the opposite, dont enjoy persona games. Mostly bcz of the school settings, having to be in class, choose sports etc... its something i seriously dont want to spend any time on in a videogame
A common misconception about Strange Journey is that it was never meant to be SMT IV. Kazuma Kaneko, one of the project leaders, joked in an interview that the quality could deem it worthy of being a numbered game, but from it's conception it was always supposed to be a spinoff Kaneko had cooking in his head since development of the original SMT back in 1992. During Strange Journey's development, Kaneko was already making plans for SMT IV. This is likely the time when he started writing his 9 novels of lore about the game's story.
I started in Persona(4) got hooked with 5 and then learned about the mainline. Got SMTVV day one; I haven’t beaten it yet since I have been busy, but I love it.
I'm a pretty new Persona fan and have vaguely wondered about SMT, but am now thinking maybe I should look into it more and pick a starting point. I do love Persona but would also be interested in 'bigger' narratives that are maybe a bit more abstract, and it seems like SMT may lie more in that direction. I guess Persona may act as a gateway for a lot of new SMT fans, who want to try something new :)
As someone who is very new to Atlus games (smt v in 2021 was my introduction), this difference reminds me of the differences between the latest two fire emblem games. I tried playing persona 5 after smt but it was a bit of a drag for me with the social aspects and was kinda disappointing since I was expecting something more akin to smt. Same with how FE 3 houses was a bit hard for me to get through with the teaching and prep phases between each chapter. Interacting with the fandoms online though, I’ve realized that the majority tends to prefers these things. Both FE engage and smt were much more enjoyable to me because of the difficulty and gameplay. Even though character interactions are what sells, I hope that for both these series, the gameplay doesn’t fall to the wayside to prioritize that.
The first time I discovered those games was when I played Shin Megami Tensei Imagine. Played that mmo till the servers died. Then, since I only had a PC I stoped playing anything related untill P4Golden appeared on steam and then P5Royal, then Strikers, and now I'll Buy SMT5Vengeange to support the company and cuse I want more.
Yeah I mean personally the games are great in both main line and spin offs. My favorite was the duo digital devil saga 1 and 2 on ps2 I would lose my mind if they remastered it, not a remake but just some upscalling and being able to play it on modern platforms.
If I had to guess before watching the video: *Appeal to casuals* with the dating sim mechanics and the much more easily digestible (but not necessarily less dark or deep) story, also the fact that despite being similar, Persona's gameplay is much easier than SMT, are the main factors at play. Persona's character focus is algo better for the average person, not having to learn more of people from short interactions showing their beliefs, but having a cast that's by your side throughout the story and doesn't make you feel alone in a world of demons... And waifus, the fact basically any female member of the cast can be romanced adds a lot to the appeal of Persona as a franchise, regardless of what a minority on Twitter might bitch about. These are basically the same reasons Persona 1 and the Sin-Punishment aren't as popular in the fanbase. That and the fact the dungeon traversing isn't as fun in those and the random encounters are trash.
I’ve only played SMT V, Persona 4 and 5. Based off of these games I’d say the biggest difference is the type of story that is being told. They have similar themes but Persona tells more of a personal character driven story while SMT focuses on the world and the philosophy of that world. I loved the gameplay in SMT V but I’d love that same gameplay with a character focused story.
There are various spinoff series such as Devil Survivor,Raidou, and Digital Devil Saga that do that. Only problem is that only Devil Survivor has accessibility ,the others are stuck on the PS2.
it's easier in terms of difficulty and to get into, it has a more "funky" style with the teenager setting and OST and general aesthetics, the story isn't as dark, everything is much more "light" compared to the average SMT story, the characters are, let's say, more relatable, there's the whole social sim aspect that a lot of people enjoy the series mostly for, it just takes the "slice of life" animey stuff and embraces it, Persona from 3 onwards was just tailor made to be more popular than SMT, which is way more difficult, has a way darker story, setting and themes, social sim aspect is almost non-existent, it's more violent and gritty, SMT is clearly meant for a more mature fanbase, a JRPG franchise mostly made for hardcore JRPG fans, while Persona is a JRPG franchise meant for everyone, but both are great at what they're trying to do anyway
As someone that started with the persona series and later got into SMT, I can see both sides. However, I think that I personally like persona more simply because I like it when there’s lots of story and character development. But SMT has a lot that I like as well.
Honestly, the biggest issue with Persona outselling SMT so heavily that we're going to notice in future games is that SMT will have a much lower budget. Worse visuals, less voice acting, more reused assets, etc etc than Persona. And you can't really blame them for it, with how much more Persona sells it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint to reinvest that money into Persona instead of mainline SMT, it's just sad because I love both franchises equally.
It's simple in my opinion. Persona is simply a more approachable SMT. Setting: Modern Day Japan. While they all have their supernatural elements like Tartarus or the Metaverse, a lot of the game is just japan high school life. This is much easier to grasp than the Vortex World for example. Story: Like with the setting, the story and characters in Persona are generally simpler in concept and have a lot of depth and dialogue. Fighting evil and corrupt adults or solving a murder mistery are easier to get behind than reshaping the entire universe through philosophical ideologies. Gameplay: This is very similar for both series but Persona lets you breathe in between combat and stuff while SMT rarely gives you a sense of safety or relaxation. Persona is also more forgiving with the difficulty. Music: While both series have amazing soundtracks, Persona is again more approachable. Mass Destruction and Rivers in the Desert are easier to grasp than Battle B2 or Battle: destruction. Persona has some tracks that wouldn't feel off on the radio, which again highlights the vibe of the series being more down to earth. UI and HUD: Persona oozes style. SMT has effective and easy to understand menus and all, but Persona is in a different league (which they seem to reach with Metaphor ReFantazio later this year as well). I love both a whole lot but it's easy to see why Persona is bigger.
That part at 6:03 was so relatable, Persona 4 was my first Persona game and every time I thought of stopping I would think that I would do this social link or this job or upgrading one of your social stats before I realized how long I had played the game
Y guy this your forst vid and told really well wouldnt mind more game dives from man. Fire emblem, mario, elden Ring etc. that can be your blue ocean or red ocean i guess
Thanks! Definitely planning on covering many different games. My next video will be up some time in July probably and it’ll be a lot longer and about a different kind of genre
College is high school for adults. It's relatable enough even if you've never gone to college because it has enough in common with high school to be understood at face value. Japan just needs to try. Give us adults to romance instead of kids. 😅
I've always preferred Persona over SMT, because where I live there is enough of that depressing atmosphere. And Megami Tensei was created in 80s, around the time, when present and past were seemed bright. So it was cool for authors write the novels about schoolboy who destroyed the world as we know and let the demons rape his teacher. Nowadays we beg the opposite.
SMT is demon slaying grinding to metal, a bit of storyline then more demon slaying grinding. Hey I love that stuff... but Persona has hip hop, acid jazz, A E S T H E T I C S, social links and most importantly, Koromaru. It's a lot more "slice of life". And also, again, Koromaru. Good boy.
I will saw this from experience as someone who couldn't stomach Dark Souls 3 for long but went ahead and beat Code Vein Solo, It's mostly about the characters. The characters in SMT tend to be soooo high strung and high concept that it becomes ridiculous hard to grasp what they want and are about, With them not developing any distinct personalities unique to them, And not just a mouthpiece for the faction they are in, Plus the fact that your interactions With other characters tends to be limited. In SMT, Saving/Ruling the world is the goal, And that's all your motivation. In Persona you getting stronger is tied to connecting with the other character, They are more plentiful and have more developed personalities and the story more or less becomes about their issues with the main goal just being there. You just have more to latch onto, And the games only started getting more popular when they leaned into them, Even if it was as difficult as SMT, While it would've lessened its popularity, It still would've eclipsed SMT in terms of popularity. Soul Hackers and Digital Devil Saga (Another bunch of SMT spin offs) are not as hard as SMT, Barring a few instances, But they still are not as popular because the characters tend to be more drab. I hope Atlus doesn't take the wrong lesson from this and end up making everything high energy, With the reveal of SMT 5 you could use my eyes as dinner plates watching what's in essence a Persona 5 protagonist walking around a ruined city, Or the remake of Persona 3 (A game that's somewhat more in line with traditionally SMT games) having more high octane music compared to the original.
Characters have more personality and are more focused in persona. While smt has a more deeper emphasis on lore and conceptual ideas revolving around the universe.
Since Persona 3, the spin off franchise pretty much grabs the fantasy of every teenage and even young adult by the balls. I mean being succesful at school, getting all the girls and becoming a super hero, all of that with an edgy vibe that you just didn't find in most anime games for the YA audience. Also, Persona has a visual novel aspect that caters to a lot of people, I would say it's at the very least 50% reading and experiencing the social aspect of the game, and 50% dungeon crawling. Mainline SMT games on the other hand are a lot more philosophical and they mix a lot of religious gibberish from multiple religions and pantheons in a convoluted way, especially when all the "alignment" factions very rarely... align with the usual trope of "good vs evil". Like, most of these games the "good guys" aren't actual good guys and God himself isn't much better either. It doesn't have a social aspect and most of the games are about dungeon crawling. SMT 4 and 4A were the most "story heavy" mainline games but they still were heavy on the dungeon crawling aspect. Honestly, if it weren't for the shared monster roster, I think these games wouldn't be compared at all because they're very different. And the fact that the comparison exists kinda sucks because it's usually not very favorable for the mainline SMT games. To make an analogy, it's almost like putting a Nietzche book on the hands of a 17 to 20 year old kid that has a video game with Final Fantasy at home. It's no surprise Persona is more popular.
I also despise the fact that demons are not relevant at all in persona they are just there. They should remove demons from persona altogether and just add more teenage girls because that's what persona fans are in to.
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Timestamps and music are in the description! This is my first video, so any feedback, advice, ideas, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks for reading
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Twitter: x.com/Choicental
What happened to the Persona 3 opening that you cut like the first 20 seconds?
We gotta give Persona props though, because now mainline SMT is growing much larger. I mean, look at how excited the people were for Nocturne HD and look how SMT V Vengeance is doing at the moment. This is also backed up by the fact that it’s multi platform this time around (fucking finally).
Regardless, Persona will always sell more due to its aesthetics, its characters, its stories, their messages… and overall it’s more relatable and approachable for casual audiences. Which is a huge reason as to why Persona is also so loved by western fans, as opposed to SMT, that is still pretty niche over here (though it’s now growing).
True. But sadly this also brings bad with it. 2 of persona 5 spinoffs could have easily been megaten games. Strikers couldve been devil summoner raidou and tactica couldve easily been a devil survivor game. But it gets a p5 coat because it will sell better. Which is a shame imo.
@@GameTimeNLL Cope, SMT fans.
@@GameTimeNLL For real, miss the devil survivor games.
@@ReinzTheKing he's got a point though.
@@ReinzTheKing just here to spread negativity?
Persona: power of friendship
Shin megami tensei: just you and your army of angels,demons and deities
I'll give you an example of another game franchise that perfectly illustrated why Persona is more popular than SMT...Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem was a niche franchise that fans loved for its strategy and difficulty...like SMT. But it was selling really poorly until Intelligent Systems changed its formula: adding a casual mode that disables permanent death and a relationship system like social links that promotes character interaction. You can say Fire Emblem "Persona-fied" itself to be way more appealing to the general public.
Pretty much. I mentioned it briefly in the vid, but you explain it way better than I was able to
The interesting thing about Fire Emblem is that the mechanics that helped it appeal to a wider audience were already in the series before it became as popular as it is now, character relationships were a thing since FE4 and casual mode was added in FE12. That being said, Awakening still made itself beginner friendly with the ability to level grind and being fairly easy by FE standards, so it’s not too big of a surprise that Awakening was the one to save the series
@@Choicentalthis is funny cause SMT has a game that a blend of the two even with fire emblem elements which is Devil survivor. I’m surprised they never revived that game.
@@TyandOnGoing Yeah I do think that if Atlus wanted mainline SMT to be a bit more personable to appeal more to the mainstream,drawing more from from the DS series(DS1 especially) is the way to go. It was a good compromise as while it still held the general spirit of mainline SMT about about choosing an ideology and exploring the pros/cons,it was wrapped up in much more personable story and characters that weren't just mouthpieces for the alignment system.
Hell,if they wanted to do a psuedo-social link system without turning it into a Persona-clone,doing it like DS2 did wouldn't be a bad thing
That or make another strategy series based off it. It's been too long for DS3.
@@infinitedreamer9359 I need a new DS game so bad it was so good.
Because Persona fans can't live in a world and STRENGTH, and feel bad when a demon eats their mom. Jokes aside. Persona by design, was made to be easier to digest.
As easy as it is for demons to digest their moms?
@@Choicental Yes. Should it happen, one should "try not to feel too bad".
you mean to tell me that persona is shallow compared to smt?
@ubel_bruv on a story level, no. On a philosophy level, yes.
Persona is a social sim. Smt is a philosophical debate that many can't even understand through the constant arguments around each stories@@ubel_bruv
I like that SMT games are Post- apocalypse and Persona games are Pre-apocalypse. I enjoy the mind-fuck SMT plots and also the cozy Persona plots.
Yeah it’s nice to be able to play both now that SMT is healthy again. The droughts of SMT content can be rough tho
Cozy persona plot ☠️ let's see...we have a rapist pedo as the first boss in P5..okay nevermind..
Jokes aside, I know what you mean
I enjoy both series, but I’m so seek of this endless social links in modern persona, so in the end I hate this games. Both in P4 and P5, i was just burned to the moment, when plot finally stated to uncoil.
I know people like persona for its social links, but it’s just not for me.
I'll stop you right there and say from the onset Persona was always designed to be more popular than SMT. They outright state that when developing Persona 3 and 4 that they made it to bring mainstream audiences into their rpg series.
Really? I didnt know they straight up said that. It makes sense though
Can’t just make claims like that without proof
Need a source on that. It's widely known that they developed P3 with the intention that it could be their last game as they were on the verge of bankruptcy. Mainstream appeal could be an intention they had too, but they had no way of knowing if it would truly land or not during development.
@@Kingdom850Yeah. It's also very noticeable considering how different and unique P3 is compared to P1 and P2. Like, they really went all out with P3
They were made to feel grounded and make the player feel related to the player which was the aspect that was added to smt v so you are wrong there
Personally, I like Persona more because of
1. Setting: not just the highschool, but it takes place in a setting that allows for some relax time whereas in SMT it always seems like stakes are 100% all the time with no rest in the story
2. Its more character driven since you are building a bond with the characters which I feel is more fun than it being a solo journey
3. The music is banger
4. The artstyle is just more appealing to me
I like that first point. If they made the save points at least a bit more relaxing that could be cool without impacting the difficulty of the game
this guy gets it. some people don't WANT to turn the intensity to 11 and have a super hard challenge with no story. It's the same thing that people who play Elden Ring think about people who don't want to play it: "oh its just too hard for you".
That's even why some people I know don't want to play Yakuza or SSBU, they want Mario Kart or Stardew Valley. Violent, combat-centered games aren't their deal.
@@grandmasteryoda2605 SMT doesn't have "no story" just because the stakes are always high and it's challenging. Tell me you've never played an SMT game without telling me you've never played an SMT game 😂
Honestly smt music bangs infinitely harder than persona music imo.
I understand everything other than the music point and the fact that the art styles are quite literally the same. If you said aesthetic/ ui style, then yes, I would have to agree with you depending on the time of day. And on the point of music, SMT music slaps just as hard if not more in some cases. I understand it’s a subjective opinion, but give Meguro some credit when it comes to SMT. I’d love to put you onto some of SMT’s hits. They’re definitely a different vibe, but SMT’s music is great, nonetheless.
Ultimately, I think Persona and mainline SMT are two separate fanbases. People like Persona for the characters, stories that hold life lessons, and calendar system. People like SMT for the expendability of demons, freedom of choice, and really dark stories with multiple endings that aren’t ever really confirmed to be canon, making it all a self-determined story. They both have their own appeals and, despite holding the same roots, have managed to turn into different game series’ entirely.
I think Persona is meant to be more approachable for a lot of reasons, while SMT is meant to be the devs not holding back on their initial vision of what they wanted the series to be. I think it’s really cool how incredibly bold SMT as a series is. There’s never really a good ending where everything is resolved and nothing bad will happen ever again. Typically, people die and bad things happen regardless of what you do. Meanwhile, Persona DOES have bad endings, but there’s ALWAYS a good ending. One where the main storyline is resolved and everyone can go back to their normal lives. I personally prefer that, but I’m not opposed to SMT’s approach at all.
Like I said, I think the SMT and Persona fanbases are separate and different because their respective game series’ are separate and different. I just think that’s cool. There’s not really a point to this comment other than sharing my thoughts on this.
I like both, but honestly, I like almost everything Atlus make
SMT IV Apocalypse Ending has two endings one where everything ends up happy and perfect and another where it's an edgy power fantasy.
Now SMT V Vengeance has two endings one where you also have another Happy Go Lucky Ending and an Edgy one
@@renren47618 that’s two examples out of how many?
A lot. Not saying you’re wrong, but still. My point is that SMT typically has many more dark endings and not many good ones.
@@Angry_JetpackI wouldn't call most of the endings dark either and their context within the plot matters. Most of the time, SMT games have an ending (or multiple ones) where peace and the player's ideals are finally achieved and where hope shines through.
Only the original Strange Journey is an outlier and the remake "fixed" it by giving it omgyay better happy endings for Law and Chaos.
The thing that makes SMT darker is that there are more consequences and more stakes because of their harsher settings.
Also the good yay super happy endings of IVa and VV are a direct result of Persona's popularity and a desperate attempt from SMT's devs to badly imitate Persona imo.
@@XelchanTheBrave SMT III, you either listen to a guy that hates you and helped start the apocalypse, accept one of your friends’ absurd and extremist ideals, fail to make a new world entirely, become the new Lucifer and destroy everything until there is not a single thing left, or reset everything to the way it was before and delay the inevitable return of the conflict
SMT IV, you either kill everyone in Tokyo with Angels, kill everyone in Mikado with Demons, or kill everyone in the world with a black hole. Only one “good” ending, and that destroys Mikado and the livelihood of all the residents there anyway
Two examples is enough. Not wrong to say they align with the ideals of the protagonist. They do. That’s the point. Still, the endings are dark. There may be peace at the end of some of them, but that doesn’t eliminate all of the conflict like endings in Persona. Still always going to be lingering effects to the choice you made as the player
Personally I think it's because SMT is more philosophical about the concept of chaos and order while persona is more about human struggles and friendship.
Mythology and philosophy vs Jungian psychology and growth.
@@abrahamambriz892 Carl Jung's studies are also present in smt
@@Junpeidaman190 Are they? And how different is their use in SMT from Persona?
@@abrahamambriz892 its completely different, tbh just go play the games if you wanna see the difference its that easy
I don't even get why people make such a big deal out of it, ofc. persona games will have a broader mainstream appeal over other SMT titles. Persona is far more relatable to the average consumer, I mean just look at SMTV since it's the most recent, every single narrative in that game have ties to Mesopotamian mythology which ain't bad, but the story is written in a way that you need to know your mythology to truly appreciate the references. Persona on the other hand, everyone can relate to another human in some way and you don't have to understand the psychological aspects of those games to enjoy the plot... heck my friend thought it just was Jojo's bizzare adventure spin off(yes he don't play games) with silly teenagers having stands. SMTV:V however appeals better to a general audience due to the simple addition of more human to human dialogues, even if that dialogue ain't exactly masterfully written(at least in the English translation).
I like both series thou, give me any SMT-related game and I'll probably play it.
Seeing how well SMTVV is doing (1.6 million on first week), I think more people will jump on mainline SMT as time goes on.
Woah, yeah that sounds like a series record. That’s more than P4 Golden’s steam release and I remember that being huge. I think there might be a lot of people who emulate the games on PC so now that 5 is on steam it’s probably blowing up
I'm pretty sure that's just the sales of the original release or maybe the combined sales of the two but Vengeance itself seems to have only about 500k+ sales in the first 3 days which is still a very very very good start, definitely helps that it got a release on all main platforms.
1.6m is the combined. 500k is the current sales of smt vv in 3 days since release
@@kakkossolttu3511the og sold like 180k first week, so smt vv could easily pass 2 million
Tbh i don't think it is actually going to get MUCH popularity, unless Atlus patches the nocturne steam port and ports other entries in the series. Emulating is still quite a niche practice, aside from people who emulate pokemon games I don't think that someone who is a CASUAL will ever actually go through with emulating smt mainline series or its spin-offs entries.
Even though SMT may not be as popular as Persona (for now, I think a lot of people really seem to like SMTVV) the best thing Persona did was take the burden of being the sales and mainstream leader off of SMT. So now SMT can focus on what it does best without having to worry as much about selling well. It's really starting to pay off and I'm glad to see it
Tho I highly doubt Atlus is a company to keep providing fan loved projects if they dont really sell. Their recent dlc plans kinda show that they are pretty much focussing on just making money. (Probably because sega bought the company)
@GameTimeNLL Total war is run same way and parent company is Sega. I'm afraid your right
I'll play devil's advocate (Ha!) and argue that ATLUS lived through bankruptcy after Index went under. I wonder how many mention that history after SEGA bought them off.
@@GameTimeNLLtbh I much rather the way dlc will be handled now, I don’t want to buy a new game for some QOL
I like both persona and mainline, but the combat of 3 and VV is why i keep coming back.
I’m just glad that both mainline SMT and Persona are multi platform now. Makes for better sales and accessibility.
It seems the common section in this video has completely overlooked. One of the most significant reasons why persona will always outsell shin Megami.
I agree with many of the points you mentioned, but without equal the most important point is marketability .
Yes, persona has social links and a chill vibe going on, but it’s more than that. SMT is without equal one of the most blasphemous franchises out there. For example, in Saudi Arabia, Pokémon is not allowed because some Pokémon look “Satanic”. Now imagine a game about religion and Satan himself.
SMT five is one of the best games I have ever played period, but I cannot recommend this game to half the people I know. A 15-year-old can play persona and enjoy it despite the fact that it says rated M for mature, but the very nature of SMT means it will forever be accessible to the majority of gamers out there. A game that is about making friends and social links is by nature More accessible as a result.
I mean, one game is about joining your friends to kill Demons, and the other is about joining demons to kill your friends. Which one sounds like it’s gonna have a larger audience.
Good point. I wasn’t sure whether or not to include it because you can still fuse and control entities like Satan in Persona as well
Don't forget that Yahweh the god for half the worlds population is portrayed as a demon lol
Surprised that this comment has so few likes.
Absolutely correct. You can sell Persona to pretty much most people. SMT though, it’s very few people I could recommend it to.
Regarding what you said about Persona being an M rated game still played by teens, does it mean that, in a scenario in which I have teenage kids, I can let them play Persona and leave mainline SMT for when they grow up, am I right?
Tbf I much prefer the SMT gameplay and flow than the Persona one. But I see your point. Good video :)
Thanks!
It really does flow way better. Much more fun per minute imo.
Honestly great first video, I like how you mentioned relatability and I think that:
1. that's precisely what gets most people into the persona series.
2. persona fans simply don't bother to give smt a chance, and if they do it's not what they expect because they want more of persona, I feel like not many people can appreciate smt's themes.
In spite of how great the smt games may be they simply do not appeal like the persona games do.
(ashamed to say that I've only played smt3 and only recently that I've heard of smtv getting a new dlc that I want to try it out, I probably can't be considered a smt fan but my renewed interest in the series makes me want to see more of it and I can only hope more people give it a shot)
Thanks for watching! I appreciate the feedback. No need to feel ashamed! I think as long as you enjoyed your time with SMT 3 and hold an interest in the series, you can consider yourself a fan. And if not, everyone has their preferences and it's just the way things are meant to be
SMT doesn’t appeal to me simply due to how minimal most stories and characters are. It heavily focuses on the gameplay with that gameplay being tough for newcomers to me as well. Persona is just more fun to me gameplay wise because it’s much more easier and approachable in comparison and I honestly feel I’m still challenged(yes, I’m serious). I love that it focuses a lot on characters and stories as well and I feel it gives a good balance unlike something like SMT. I also don’t care much for its edginess. The only thing that’s interesting to me is the alignment system and how the point of it is to show that there’s no right answer for reshaping the world but writers proceed to make them biased as hell from the videos I saw on them(Poor law guys).
@@digimonlover1632 I can definitely say that smt3 is among the hardest games I've ever played and I can understand where you come from, and it's true smt is not a game for everyone and the value of it's story heavily depends on the player eince it's very much all about morals and the concept of oneself instead of your relation to others like persona (short term "power of friendship"). Persona has everything smt's story is about, while adding relatability and character interaction to the mix so most people can enjoy it.
Tldr everything you said is very valid I just think that when persona fans try to migrate to smt (particularly talking about smt3 idk about the others) they just get disappointed at the expectation they had vs what it really is
@@urdatninja "persona has everything smt's story is about" sorry what? Did you even play an smt game?
@@pedrol5004 I explicitly stated that I've played smt3, so if you disagree with my interpretation, elaborate instead of questioning whether or not I played it
it goes over a lot of people's heads that soul hackers 2 did experiment with a good amount of the ideas that the persona fan base wanted. talking protagonist, female protagonist, all adult cast, essentially social links with a more adult aesthetic, story choices that affect points with your friends. it came out to lower than expected sales and pretty mediocre reception though. i think a lot of people have a tendency to say they really want something, but it becomes a very fleeting enjoyment once they do get it. like how people really wanted a new pokemon snap game but the hype for it only lasted a short time.
Good point. Not just with Atlus, but with media in general, it seems people think they want certain things but actually don’t, and oftentimes the most successful products take off because they provide things that people didn’t know they ever wanted
I disagree with this mainly due to execution. Yes people want those things, but they want them done well. Soul hackers 2 experimented sure but its characters had minimal depth the dungeons were unabashedly terrible and the gameplay was devisive to say the least. I think what soul hackers 2 did well was the protag and its messaging but when buried under unconfident and unpolished gameplay, it suffers. Not to mention soul hackers kind of erred on the end of WAYYYY too much talking. There's a middle ground that I think can be achieved with refinement. I think the misunderstanding here is people never really got what they wanted, they got a poorly executed version of it. And i dislike this notion that people "don't know what they want" when they're saying exactly what they want and they're given something "Similar" but usually with lower effort and poor execution and when its not liked, suddenly its the consumer's fault.
New Pokemon Snap sold millions of copies and SH2's terrible word of mouth and reviews are based on people having issues with pretty much everything except the things you mentioned.
But it's no fun if you let facts get in the way of crafting a spicy take, fam!
I got an idea to make SMT mainstream all they need to do is to bring back the buddy system from SMT 4 but only taken up by waifus who represent law, chaos, and neutral. Whatever route you pick is the goddess who will create a new world with you.
This one!
Dude you need to get over the waifu bait and think with your actual head.
@@noblegalifreyan4551 it’s not for me I don’t need the waifus it’s for the masses and SMT is filled with waifus regardless cleopatra, idun, ame no uzume, pixie
Why hasn’t Atlus hired you yet?
@@xzb7644 they actually sent me a job offer imma work on the story for shin megami tensei V:2 miyazu is the new neutral rep
Persona is fine, it's flashy, cool beats and the settings are relatable for alot of fellas.
Personally! SMT series is much better for me since I'm a sucker for the determined/dedicated gameplay with niches.
Not every game has to be appealing to the casual public.
In fact SMT fans in japan and west are happy that it's niche because Atlus is the only main japanese company that delivers a more unforgiving retro style jrpg that no other companies do anymore unless you dedicate 50 or 100 hours to reach that one super boss in some other Square Enix jrpg ... and that's it.
Persona overshadowed SMT because SMT was stuck on shitty handhelds since the PS2, this may change now that they are both multiplatform.
I think SMT sales will increase but I don’t expect expect them to match Persona. I have friends who regard SMT the same way they do Persona 1 and 2. That “I want to play it someday but probably never will” zone
@@Choicental yeah but the chance of people playing it is much greater now that the games are not on the 3DS lmao.
Yeah I’m optimistic. Someone in the comments said SMT 5 Vengeance sold 1.6 million in the first week which is the most of any SMT game
@@Choicental SMT VI is looking bright.
@@Choicental I believe that's the combined sales of both the version or just the original but SMTV:V is still definitely proving itself to be a huge success, reportedly 500k+ sales in first 3 days and pretty much everyone (journalist, new and old fans) is keeping it in high regard with it's upgraded yet familiar mechanics and an all improved story.
I'm very hopeful that with this early success Vengeance is having and all the hype surrounding Metaphor, Atlus and Sega are ready to place more money on the 1st and 3rd creative studios so that we may possibly get new entries that aren't in development hell and maybe even remakes or atleast modern rereleases of their other entries like Digital Devil Saga and SMT4/4A.
Very well put together video keep up the good work
Thanks!
It's most likely the high school setting and social links. I am not sure about relatability being such a strong factor, since in both series, you handle a protagonist who is pretty much taken out of his element and given supernatural powers, something that nobody can relate to irl. And SMT is still somewhat niche, even with Vengeance in the mix. From what I've heard - haven't tried it myself yet - P5R is actually a lot easier than the vanilla version, so there's also the fact that the most accessible and widespread version of the game is still several layers of easy unlike SMT5 even when played on Casual or Normal. Perhaps some of that is for the wrong reasons (Okumura's castle seems more tolerable in P5R with all the new gameplay additions, but I still remember how much of a hassle was in the original).
While Persona isnt completely relatable, I think it’s familiar enough that many people would want to live a life like the protags in the game. I haven’t gotten to Royal yet either, but from what I’ve seen though, re-releases of Atlus games always sell better than the originals. OG P5 was the first Atlus RPG I played and I had a lot of trouble with it lol. I was really bad so it’s a good thing I didn’t start with SMT. I found Atlus through Catherine and Persona 4 Arena though.
Isolating the supernatural aspects obviously makes them seem unrelateable. Persona's entire identity is about finding oneself and facing difficulties a lot of teens have to face, hence the school setting. Smt is more focused on asking moral questions when it comes to narrative. Not really relatable but still valuable. So yeah, relatability definitely plays a role.
I agree with a lot of what you said! I'm glad this came up on my Recommended tab. Thanks for being my video to eat lunch to lol
I watch TH-cam with every meal lol no problem
I'd say with the recent news of SMT VV selling half a million copy in 3 days, SMT being stucked to one platform was the true indicator of the series being not mainstream. SMT doesn't appeal to console player as it does with PC player like for eg me, I played my first SMT game (SMT 4) on the 3ds emulator in my pc.
Hence the sales on handhelds for the games have been a linear positive with each release after 3? The series was never going to hit big and wide like persona from the fact that the premise of both games catered to different audiences. Sure it going multiplat is a change but there are sales info of VV still proving switch handheld being the lead in contrast to ps5 based on recent famitsu sales chart.
SMT V sold a million while being a switch exclusive, what the fuck are you talking about? Multiplat approach helps for sure, but SMT not being a hit is just due to the nature of it not catering to every audience.
Dude, Persona 5 was Playstation Exclusive for like 3 years
@@twakilon Hell, nearly every 2000s Atlus console RPG was a PlayStation exclusive lmao
@@Kingdom850 SMT VV sold half of that in 3 days dawg if the game was released multiplatform day 1 then it would have reached 2 hell 2.5 million copies
I personally don't jive with Persona, but I'm really loving the dark post-apocalyptic vibes and larger stakes of SMTV. Vengeance looks amazing!
I think it's just accesibility, all SMT games are either PS2, DS and 3DS.
During the PS2 era SMT was pretty obscure, just like persona, but while Persona got direct continuity (P3 -> P4 -> P5) with re releases and spinnoff in between main games, making the brand relevant every few years.
SMT got huge voids of contents on inconsistents systems, just look at the progression:
Nocturne -> DDS1&2 -> Raidou1&2 -> Devil Survivor 1&2 -> Strange Journey -> SH -> SMT IV
None of them are directly related to each other in gameplay, cast, story style or even plataform.
And the space between SMT Nocturne to SMT IV was over 11 years, being controversial due to going from full 3D to a semi 3D with 2D battles, while also being a Mature rated game on the 3DS, so overall it was unatractive to new players (Strange Journey also suffered from being one of the 10 M rated games on DS).
SMT VV has sold 500k copies in it's firts 3 days on sale, those numbers actually are close to what P3R sold, it likely won't sell more than it, but I can see it range from 700K to 800k at the end of the week.
So yeah, SMT only really needed to be on plataforms where people wanted to play it, and also be on a reasonable tecnicall level (I'm pretty sure if SMT IV was a PS3/PS4 game it likely would have sold more than the 600k it sold it's first two years on 3DS, and by extension SMT V would be more succefull).
Right now SMT is expanding as a series, Atlus games don't really sell that much, even with 1 million sales SMT V was a top 7 seller for Atlus, since only P5, P5R, P5S, P4G on steam and P3R had sold over a million copies, so it's likely Atlus will put more atention and resources on SMT to allow it to grow, insted of just being the Persona guys.
I just wonder if they stopped releasing 3D SMT games on big consoles because Persona had begun overshadowing it, or did Persona start overshadowing it because they stopped releasing mainline SMT games?
Tbh I think most of it is due to how heavy the stories of SMT tend to be. Take 4 for example, it's so damn easy to get attached to Jonathan, Walter and Isabeau, and the game ends up breaking your heart after the alignment lock with their fates, on top of that there's many different endings and none of them are really endings, they all have severe consequences for the world. On top of that the "best" ending for SMT4 is still bloody depressing with The White just erasing everything.
SMT is always gonna be the artistic father of Persona, and while I'm personally not a fan of Persona's more recent entries like P5 and P5R due to the staggering amount of time investment required, I'll always appreciate it for allowing ATLUS to continue making those experimental titles. Now if only we can get a Digital Devil Saga duology remaster.
That’s a good point. I haven’t played vengeance yet but the endings in 5 definitely had a lot to be desired
As a former SMT elitist, I think SMT and Persona are the perfect sister series to each other. They compliment each other perfectly. When I get wiped out from an emotional Persona game, all I wanna do is play an immersive, dangerous, solo journey about deciding the fate of the world. And after I do that, I just want a relaxed, slower paces journey of growing bonds and getting to know people.
2024 is basically the perfect slate. A remake of the 2nd best Persona game that fixes a lot of the iffy parts of that game, developed by people who grew up playing the original game(P5Scramble team actually went on to make Reload). Then a greatly expanded version of the game with the best combat and exploration in the series, with a new fantastic story to boot, all to finish with a brand new title that is a mix of both worlds.
In my case, I do try to get into classic SMT to see where Persona originates from and I'm quite fascinated how such a spinoff that originated from SMT managed to overshadow the main series itself. I do really really like how the original series presents itself too and I'm not closed to OG SMT. I just think I will still like Persona more as a whole because I'm a fluffy dork that loves his husbandos, epic stories of friendship and deep lore and explained stories with multiple entires. I don't hate the more freeform approach of SMT, making its story more on the side, focusing on the dungeon crawling and gameplay aspect. While I will still prefer Persona by a mile, I acknowledged where it came from, and I think SMT is pretty neato! Kinda like how in Fire Emblem I have no preferences and I am not closed off on either the non permadeath games and the more classic, older games. I just like everything.
a raidou duology remaster will save all of smt
- kazuma kaneko
True man...... True...
Because not everyone wants to get beaten up and robbed by a Mokoi or have Walter buff a boss.
The early game of SMT 4 left irreparable damage 10/10 experience
I think I got lucky with Minotaur lol. I’ve played that segment of the game 2 or 3 times and it’s never taken me more than a couple tries to beat him. At least he has one of the best themes in the series
I played my first ever SMT with vengeance and i really appreciate how different it is to persona. I like how demons are given personalities and wish and goals. The law and chaos and neutral endings give a lot of depth. Its a very complex game conceptually so I understand why it wouldn’t be popular… also i like making ultra stacked demons and i loved fusion in persona so this was a win.
I find it pretty ironic how I could never get into the Persona games for the reasons people love the games so much. I get extremely stressed out over having to manage relationships, whether real or simulated. And having to do it within a time limit hanging over my head sounds like my personal torture.
By contrast, SMT more aligns with what I like in video games by focusing more directly on the combat and exploration as well as having me challenge and grow my own philosophies and ideals.
I dunno, I acknowledge that my tastes are odd but at best I'm neutral to Persona and at worst questioned why people love the series. After watching the video, I can see it but only doubled down for me that I will never get into the series
Honestly, really respectable opinion. Relationships can be tiring and sometimes it’s better to get away from all of it
Man I have the same opinion but like exactly flipped 😂
Goes to show that different people have different tastes so you can't make something for everyone. That's probably why smt and persona have been able to diverge without either series going completely dark, there's space enough for both series
I have played Persona 2, 3, 4, 5 and I like them a lot. SMT Devil Survivor was also cool to play. Strange Journey bored me pretty fast, Persona Q also. I think It's time to try SMT 4
I haven’t played Strange Journey or Persona Q yet, but I always found the first person dungeon exploration from Strange Journey to be a turn off. I think you might like SMT 4, but one thing I’ll warn you about is relatively early on the game a certain area will open up and it might be a bit difficult to figure out where you’re supposed to go. Still, though, once you figure it out, you’ll be playing a great game with a pretty special soundtrack
Smt IV is peak great story and great world / exploration
I genuinely had a good laugh when your channel icon popped up on my screen after the video was almost over😂
Didnt see the pfp bf and that jumpscare of buff brian at the end was hilarious
The main thing really boils down to a lack of them advertising a product when one was reaching so many people. From Soft games are just as combat focused as SMT, yet see massive success, Atlus took quick money over pushing a game that has the same amount of depth and care involved in it when you play it. And I don't blame them, they were going bankrupt. But Yeah, Persona Overshadows SMT because Atlus makes it so.
I think so. Also it’s evident that the Persona games get higher budgets too
I came to say this as well. I also think the argument about it being a relatable setting is a bit silly; Final Fantasy doesn't have a particularly relatable setting in any of its games, really, but it's one of the best selling franchises of all time. Shin Megami Tensei's lower popularity is absolutely a marketing and corporate strategy issue more than anything. Keep in mind the first SMT game we got in the West was... Jack bros.
wow man this video is great, im surprised its one of your first! hope to see your channel grow with time :>
I appreciate the support!
I'll say this out of speculation.
Persona 5 was my first SMT game and SMT 5 base game was my second. I didn't expect SMT 5 to be like Persona, but i did kinda expect it to be like Devilman where the themes of tragedy and betrayal take precedence.
The themes are there, but they're not very convincing. I think SMT could benefit with more character development and having main characters spend more time with each other before Armageddon begins
I do prefer SMT over Persona, but no amount of retrospectives and video essays on Nocturne can convince me that SMT doesn't have to change its minimal story tell. Yes, SMT games are good as games, but not as memorable stories.
Other than that, yeah, the name/moniker definitely hurts marketing
Japanese media has been more popular than ever, but people hardly say the original Japanese titles of anime and games. Some titles like Jujutsu Kaisen may be an exception, but that doesn't really mean anything
I think SMT can actually benefit from being an anime ngl
Also in recent news, SMT 5 Vengeance actually did sell more units within a week than P3R
I'm happy, but I wonder how new players will react to the story and characters
Ngl, there are still several noticeable weaknesses.
That’s good to hear. I enjoyed V but the side quests aside from the dlc ones were repetitive and the main story was a letdown imo. I haven’t had a chance to play Vengeance yet. Hoping I can get to it some time this summer. From what I’ve seen, they’ve been addressing everyone’s criticisms, like expanding on the existing cast’s moments, toning down the level scaling, adding another dungeon, adding another story, etc.
A lot of things suddenly got popular over here despite being long running series cause of particular entries acting as a sort of gateway. Like Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure used to a niche thing but now even frat boys know about it cause of the anime. Yakuza was kinda under the radar in its first decade now I can’t even keep up with all of em cause it exploded in popularity. The name is definitely a contributor, they either can’t pronounce it, don’t wanna pronounce it, or don’t wanna be considered a weeb or gay or something.
Persona has more gameplay mechanics that reach out more vocal niche fans (Romance dating sim types) (Think of Fire Emblem fans)
Interesting video, I can't say I played many SMT games, but I do realize how much Persona leans on it for it's start. It's sorta like how you can have 1 idea and you hit the fork in the road for what to do.
I do think while Persona will always be more popular and some parts of the fanbase have conflict between the 2 games for varying reasons. SMT I think is also getting more popular BECAUSE of Persona. SMT V doesn't just sell a total of 1.6 million (Original + Vengeance), because the series itself got more popular, but I think it's because Atlus is going more mainstream as a whole, and that's thanks to Persona.
SMT and Persona is sort of helping each other in weird way, Metaphor seems to be combining the better aspects of both games (The Social Link aspect of Persona, with the combat of SMT). Which is what makes me so hyped for Metaphor, because it feels like a love letter to both Persona and SMT, aswell as a celebration of Atlus as a whole.
I also like how metaphor seems to be using a final fantasy-esque job system. Some square enix fans might enjoy it
I’m not too sure how many share this sentiment, but I actually enjoy SMT much more than I enjoy Persona, and I started with Persona. Even playing both P3R and SMTVV recently, I prefer SMTVV. Regardless of how well SMT sells in the west, there’s just something about SMT that will always be my preference.
I hope this resurgence of SMT brings us a Digital Devil Saga re-release and a SMT IV remake or at least a remastered version.
Yeah those are the two I’d really like to see as well. And a new raidou game would be nice.
My BIGGEST ISSUE with SMT V was that the world was boring to play and explore. We'd see the desert like world and demons, but it felt incredibly isolated and empty. There was no one really out there but you and your demons that shout attack moves and enemies. The demons didn't have enough personality to justify it and party members felt more like disposable soldiers I slotted in and out when the need arose. I like the difficulty and the atmosphere they were trying to set up, but the artstyle felt drab and it carried over across the whole game. there was no flair to like persona always has. Persona also has very feel good and relatable stories within and around it everything revolves around the player, their emotions, and character situations. In SMT V the world is sorta dead on its own and you are just along for the ride trying to find something. Two demons would have a turf war, but the quest and gameplay would boil down to do you side with me or them and then a fight would ensue for the other one. It feels like it clearly had a lower budget than persona. It all felt kinda tacky the gameplay felt disjointed. The world essentially boiled down to go here check out that statue, go here pick up that 3d shape, and go here find the little demons. With Persona 5 compared to this game it felt like this game is a downgrade. The main character looks goofy and is not super appealing. Everything clashes like its just Atlus trying to copy a formula instead of innovate.
It felt like playing the neglected depressed child IP in Atlus. They knew fans like SMT 3 but they pushed out 5 because they had extra left over from persona 5. There was not even that much marketing for it either which was a shame. I wanted this game to be good, but it came out a mediocre product.
My main take away from this video is that it's not just Pokemon where baton pass is broken. :P
Atlus really outdid themselves with Persona. Shows to go how far and powerful a spin off can be when done right. Would love to see Sega do the same thing to the sonic franchsie and make spin off of the other supporting charcters since their all unique and have different capabilities. Persona is so goated. Never really had a miss yet. Persona 6 will be delish 🤤
I’d like a new shadow the hedgehog game. The first one was overhated imo
Persona also has the the advantage of being significantly easier to understand and enjoy than smt. Remember this is a genre that something like final fantasy has pretty much abandoned, and for pretty realistic and justified reasons, if you don’t like turn based games persona likely has a chance of changing your mind with it’s power fantasy. If you don’t like turn based games, loading up something smt 3 is NOT going to change your mind. You gotta know how to read the room and play your cards right, and that’s something persona can do that smt can’t because persona doesn’t give a damn who thinks it’s “too easy”.
Not only in gameplay, story too. Modern persona and even Persona 2 to an extent provide a relatively straight forward and relatable story for the player, whereas in SMT it's more abstract and can be pretty overwhelming at the alignment lock or even depressing at them. Like man when I ended up getting the law route on SMT4 I was so fucking mad upon seeing blasted tokyo.
Like SMT is just a type of game that will always have a hard time reaching mainstream popularity just because of how it's made, the stories aren't typical, can be hard to actually get into, the art style can be almost alien at times and then at least with modern SMT games there's always a wall for you to face rather early on like Matador or Minotaur to just rock your shit unless you begin to pay attention to the games mechanics. Ultimately though it's also one of those franchises that once it clicks with you, it clicks and you begin to love it.
This is your first video? It's extremely good for a first video if so. Subscribed
I appreciate it. I’m planning on uploading vids about a bunch of different video game topics so don’t be surprised if the next video isn’t SMT related. The one after that will be though so there are still plenty of SMT/Persona videos to come
@@Choicental Oh, for sure. I'm interested in SMT/Persona, but I haven't actually played one yet, which is kind of how I ended up here. Either way, look forward to seeing your future content!
Like everyone else says, Persona revolves around a more casual storyline whereas players can relate toward its characters, all the while having its own unique turn-based combat system that is beginner friendly to those who are new to the JRPG genre and still engagingly fun to veterans. Players would enjoy interactions between characters which basically balances out with the dungeon crawling grind. Not to mention that the soundtrack provides to the immersion, both during a casual story and in battle.
Meanwhile, SMT leans toward the darker side of the same battle system. Because of the constant tense atmosphere, it becomes a game that makes you feel you shouldn't let your guard down. This is especially true with battles that prove brutal and difficult; like some of the games are infamous for tutorial battles to kill you right off the bat because of the hilarious RNG. Aside from that, the main focus of SMT is the execution of its morals-driven plot, paying little to no heed to actual relationships between its characters. It emphasizes the struggles of humanity against demonic entities and varying worldviews that decides how they would deal with them. The focus on philosophy gives the series a foreboding aura that only a few young audiences would be able to tolerate, thus giving it a narrower range of players.
TL;DR Persona's themes are easier to be enjoyed by all ages, while SMT is oriented to a more mature playerbase.
With that said, I am one of the few young gamers that absolutely adores SMT. It's a series that surprisingly clicked well with my interests. Although, Persona was my introduction to Atlus games and it did give a really strong impression for a game that was only supposed to be a pick-me-up until I decided it was worth investing my free time in.
Nice video. Thoughs:
1- this video comes at a time when Sony and Microsoft are betting less on console exclusives and being more open about allowing games to be multi-platform. This is releveant to the discussion because Smt5V being sucessfull is connected to it being in all consoles.
2- Also, looking back, the fact that SMT4 was only only the 3ds kept it out of view of most western audiances.
3- 2:58 persona is actually just final fantasy?
4- it makes sense that atlus doubles down on their most sucessfull product. at the same time i get tired of all the p5 spin off, specially since imo the original game was nothing special.
I think also Persona is just a better franchise in many respects other than it's relatability and accessibility. I think we can all agree that Persona has a SUPER strong sense of art direction and music direction that frankly makes it stand out not only over mainline SMT, but just other RPGs in general.
I mean I’m sure you can say this about a variety of rpgs
@zedorian6547 I really can't. It's not to say other RPGs dont have good visuals or music, but none are as visually or audibly striking as Persona imho.
Highly disagree. Many smt games have a very distinct art style. There is no game with an art style similar to smt3 or for example soulhackers. And how are they better games?
@@NeekOW2 at least you added that it was your subjective opinion lol I mean I enjoy Persona as much as the next person though I REALLY wish they would drop the high school setting.
Persona 1 and 2 were more in line with the smt aesthetic then it went all ✨️ 3 and onwards
Both series are great, the storytelling and characters are quite deep and entertaining from the Persona series to me personally. Still the PS5 SMTV is fun too( like an adult version of Pokémon) collecting demons and using them in fights. If they do remakes of the SMT series similar to SMTV , I would actually get them all. I already plan to get all the Persona remakes and Metaphor:ReFantazio
Just saw your first video and the first persona game I played was P5 Royal. Since then, I have been hooked. I just bought SMT3HD for switch and idk how I feel about it yet though.
The random battles are the most annoying part for me but hopefully it’s a good time. 5 might be a better start if you don’t like the random battles
As a personal fan, I really wanna try out shin megami tensei, but I’m on the fence about it because they are so fundamentally different.
I’d love to see an objective review of shin megami tensei that does not compare it to persona to see if I should give it a shot.
I think most people can’t really help but compare the two if you’ve played one or the other. If I were you I’d just watch a no commentary gameplay video
As someone who played p3p, p4, p5, p5r, smt4, smt5 and as fan of the usual rpg formula that smt follows, what I can say is that the smt games I played have a flowless battle system thats rewarding to people who actually wanna learn it, but smt storylines to me sucks, you feel so isolated from other characters that a better comparisson would be an edgy pokemon, but in pokemon you can get atached to your party, while in smt you can't (unless its a dlc demon, they can be carried pretty much the whole game, like artemis in smt5) smt, to me, has this one big problem and I feel like most of smt5 being compared to p5r is because the trailer sold smt5 as a persona game basically
@@strangedogg5068not really a problem. As isolation is exactly what they are going for in pretty much every smt game. Especially 3 and 5. Not liking it is subjective. As I absolutely love isolation in videogames.
@@GameTimeNLL in sm5v there were a lot of interactions and living companions with you for the most of the game tbh, the world is at stake you cant get attached or you will get betrayed and killed by others who want to change the world
Awesome vid, dude!
Honestly, watching this makes me want to replay SMT IV. I wish they'd port that one to the Switch, though I'm grateful we have III and V. How great would it be if we got some kind of SMT Collection on modern consoles? Wishful thinking
Because persona is easier and also is basically like an anime
Personally speaking, with the success of Vengeance, i think SMT will get more popular, even if it's not to the degree of Persona's. I love both series for similar and completely different reasons
After playing vengeance on steam my first smt game I already like it over every persona game and I love persona.
Persona is just made with more mainstream appeal in mind while SMT is for people who are already into RPG combat. The life sim elements balance out the dungeon crawling and makes really long RPGs more digestable for newcomers.
the midori tweet LOL
Yeah that did not age well lol
Persona: with a power of friendship, we can defeat demons and all evil things
SMT: Fck friendship, let me social linking with all demons in existence, especially pixie and kill gods for fun
I love the Persona series since it got me hooked with jrpgs, hell i spent more time in the Persona series(mainline, never really played the spin-offs) then any other game series!
But watching this video and others I think I'll try Vengeance has looks very interesting now that it's free from the switch!
It really is just 2 words: Social Links.
I prefer SMT and think it has better gameplay, but people really like the social aspect. It's also happening in Fire Emblem where people are preferring the entries with a lot of social character content compared to the others.
Still playing vanilla smt5 G
I got the dlc the day before it was delisted. I'm just loving it since I probably won't go back after vengeance.
While I can recognize their merit, personally (heh) I find the general gameplay loop of modern Persona games to be rather uninteresting. I'm not really one for planning out days, or choosing who to spend my time with during the week. In fact, I'll usually blast through the dungeons because I'm there for the dungeon crawling and battles aspect. This is part of the reason why I vastly prefer Persona 1 and 2's way of handling things, because the game flows naturally and isnt 100+ hours. Not that I think that the more modern way of Persona games is bad, just definitely not for me. Which is also why I just happen to prefer SMT as a whole lmfao.
Cant say,im the opposite, dont enjoy persona games. Mostly bcz of the school settings, having to be in class, choose sports etc... its something i seriously dont want to spend any time on in a videogame
A common misconception about Strange Journey is that it was never meant to be SMT IV. Kazuma Kaneko, one of the project leaders, joked in an interview that the quality could deem it worthy of being a numbered game, but from it's conception it was always supposed to be a spinoff Kaneko had cooking in his head since development of the original SMT back in 1992. During Strange Journey's development, Kaneko was already making plans for SMT IV. This is likely the time when he started writing his 9 novels of lore about the game's story.
SMT 4 is my fav on my 3ds
And SMT 4 apocalypse's dlc costumes got to be drippy
I started in Persona(4) got hooked with 5 and then learned about the mainline. Got SMTVV day one; I haven’t beaten it yet since I have been busy, but I love it.
I'm a pretty new Persona fan and have vaguely wondered about SMT, but am now thinking maybe I should look into it more and pick a starting point. I do love Persona but would also be interested in 'bigger' narratives that are maybe a bit more abstract, and it seems like SMT may lie more in that direction.
I guess Persona may act as a gateway for a lot of new SMT fans, who want to try something new :)
PLEEEASE play smt4 its incredible
As someone who is very new to Atlus games (smt v in 2021 was my introduction), this difference reminds me of the differences between the latest two fire emblem games. I tried playing persona 5 after smt but it was a bit of a drag for me with the social aspects and was kinda disappointing since I was expecting something more akin to smt. Same with how FE 3 houses was a bit hard for me to get through with the teaching and prep phases between each chapter. Interacting with the fandoms online though, I’ve realized that the majority tends to prefers these things. Both FE engage and smt were much more enjoyable to me because of the difficulty and gameplay. Even though character interactions are what sells, I hope that for both these series, the gameplay doesn’t fall to the wayside to prioritize that.
The first time I discovered those games was when I played Shin Megami Tensei Imagine. Played that mmo till the servers died. Then, since I only had a PC I stoped playing anything related untill P4Golden appeared on steam and then P5Royal, then Strikers, and now I'll Buy SMT5Vengeange to support the company and cuse I want more.
I know a guy who pirates and emulates every SMT game but pre ordered vengeance so I think you’re right
Yeah I mean personally the games are great in both main line and spin offs. My favorite was the duo digital devil saga 1 and 2 on ps2 I would lose my mind if they remastered it, not a remake but just some upscalling and being able to play it on modern platforms.
If I had to guess before watching the video:
*Appeal to casuals* with the dating sim mechanics and the much more easily digestible (but not necessarily less dark or deep) story, also the fact that despite being similar, Persona's gameplay is much easier than SMT, are the main factors at play. Persona's character focus is algo better for the average person, not having to learn more of people from short interactions showing their beliefs, but having a cast that's by your side throughout the story and doesn't make you feel alone in a world of demons... And waifus, the fact basically any female member of the cast can be romanced adds a lot to the appeal of Persona as a franchise, regardless of what a minority on Twitter might bitch about.
These are basically the same reasons Persona 1 and the Sin-Punishment aren't as popular in the fanbase. That and the fact the dungeon traversing isn't as fun in those and the random encounters are trash.
I’ve only played SMT V, Persona 4 and 5. Based off of these games I’d say the biggest difference is the type of story that is being told. They have similar themes but Persona tells more of a personal character driven story while SMT focuses on the world and the philosophy of that world. I loved the gameplay in SMT V but I’d love that same gameplay with a character focused story.
There are various spinoff series such as Devil Survivor,Raidou, and Digital Devil Saga that do that. Only problem is that only Devil Survivor has accessibility ,the others are stuck on the PS2.
Looks like Metaphor will somewhat be what you described.
@@grantshealy4512 I know I think it will be more along the lines of what I was hoping for from SMTV
SmtV is my first smt game. Beat it with true nuetral working through other endings now. Cant wait for more from this series
As far as spin offs go. Outside of persona I am a big fan of devil survivor. Digital devil saga was pretty good too
for me i think persona is like much friendlier looks so thats why it sells well
it's easier in terms of difficulty and to get into, it has a more "funky" style with the teenager setting and OST and general aesthetics, the story isn't as dark, everything is much more "light" compared to the average SMT story, the characters are, let's say, more relatable, there's the whole social sim aspect that a lot of people enjoy the series mostly for, it just takes the "slice of life" animey stuff and embraces it, Persona from 3 onwards was just tailor made to be more popular than SMT, which is way more difficult, has a way darker story, setting and themes, social sim aspect is almost non-existent, it's more violent and gritty, SMT is clearly meant for a more mature fanbase, a JRPG franchise mostly made for hardcore JRPG fans, while Persona is a JRPG franchise meant for everyone, but both are great at what they're trying to do anyway
As someone that started with the persona series and later got into SMT, I can see both sides. However, I think that I personally like persona more simply because I like it when there’s lots of story and character development. But SMT has a lot that I like as well.
I’d be glad is SMT returned to an adult cast of characters for the next game
Id say im a bigger SMT fan but persona is much easier to get into
Honestly, the biggest issue with Persona outselling SMT so heavily that we're going to notice in future games is that SMT will have a much lower budget. Worse visuals, less voice acting, more reused assets, etc etc than Persona. And you can't really blame them for it, with how much more Persona sells it makes perfect sense from a business standpoint to reinvest that money into Persona instead of mainline SMT, it's just sad because I love both franchises equally.
It's simple in my opinion. Persona is simply a more approachable SMT.
Setting: Modern Day Japan. While they all have their supernatural elements like Tartarus or the Metaverse, a lot of the game is just japan high school life. This is much easier to grasp than the Vortex World for example.
Story: Like with the setting, the story and characters in Persona are generally simpler in concept and have a lot of depth and dialogue. Fighting evil and corrupt adults or solving a murder mistery are easier to get behind than reshaping the entire universe through philosophical ideologies.
Gameplay: This is very similar for both series but Persona lets you breathe in between combat and stuff while SMT rarely gives you a sense of safety or relaxation. Persona is also more forgiving with the difficulty.
Music: While both series have amazing soundtracks, Persona is again more approachable. Mass Destruction and Rivers in the Desert are easier to grasp than Battle B2 or Battle: destruction. Persona has some tracks that wouldn't feel off on the radio, which again highlights the vibe of the series being more down to earth.
UI and HUD: Persona oozes style. SMT has effective and easy to understand menus and all, but Persona is in a different league (which they seem to reach with Metaphor ReFantazio later this year as well).
I love both a whole lot but it's easy to see why Persona is bigger.
Vengeance is amazing..... style, links, school days, and at the time and still...persona music starting in 3 on just hit the masses hard
That part at 6:03 was so relatable, Persona 4 was my first Persona game and every time I thought of stopping I would think that I would do this social link or this job or upgrading one of your social stats before I realized how long I had played the game
Y guy this your forst vid and told really well wouldnt mind more game dives from man. Fire emblem, mario, elden Ring etc. that can be your blue ocean or red ocean i guess
Thanks! Definitely planning on covering many different games. My next video will be up some time in July probably and it’ll be a lot longer and about a different kind of genre
@@Choicental can't wait for men. Definitely will definitely check it out.
Cuz its for casuals, press turn will always be better than one more
College is high school for adults.
It's relatable enough even if you've never gone to college because it has enough in common with high school to be understood at face value.
Japan just needs to try. Give us adults to romance instead of kids. 😅
I've always preferred Persona over SMT, because where I live there is enough of that depressing atmosphere.
And Megami Tensei was created in 80s, around the time, when present and past were seemed bright. So it was cool for authors write the novels about schoolboy who destroyed the world as we know and let the demons rape his teacher.
Nowadays we beg the opposite.
how tf you only have 130 subscribers with this quality?
Check his channel, this is his first video apparently
SMT is demon slaying grinding to metal, a bit of storyline then more demon slaying grinding. Hey I love that stuff... but Persona has hip hop, acid jazz, A E S T H E T I C S, social links and most importantly, Koromaru. It's a lot more "slice of life". And also, again, Koromaru. Good boy.
I will saw this from experience as someone who couldn't stomach Dark Souls 3 for long but went ahead and beat Code Vein Solo, It's mostly about the characters.
The characters in SMT tend to be soooo high strung and high concept that it becomes ridiculous hard to grasp what they want and are about, With them not developing any distinct personalities unique to them, And not just a mouthpiece for the faction they are in, Plus the fact that your interactions With other characters tends to be limited. In SMT, Saving/Ruling the world is the goal, And that's all your motivation.
In Persona you getting stronger is tied to connecting with the other character, They are more plentiful and have more developed personalities and the story more or less becomes about their issues with the main goal just being there. You just have more to latch onto, And the games only started getting more popular when they leaned into them, Even if it was as difficult as SMT, While it would've lessened its popularity, It still would've eclipsed SMT in terms of popularity.
Soul Hackers and Digital Devil Saga (Another bunch of SMT spin offs) are not as hard as SMT, Barring a few instances, But they still are not as popular because the characters tend to be more drab.
I hope Atlus doesn't take the wrong lesson from this and end up making everything high energy, With the reveal of SMT 5 you could use my eyes as dinner plates watching what's in essence a Persona 5 protagonist walking around a ruined city, Or the remake of Persona 3 (A game that's somewhat more in line with traditionally SMT games) having more high octane music compared to the original.
Characters have more personality and are more focused in persona. While smt has a more deeper emphasis on lore and conceptual ideas revolving around the universe.
Since Persona 3, the spin off franchise pretty much grabs the fantasy of every teenage and even young adult by the balls. I mean being succesful at school, getting all the girls and becoming a super hero, all of that with an edgy vibe that you just didn't find in most anime games for the YA audience. Also, Persona has a visual novel aspect that caters to a lot of people, I would say it's at the very least 50% reading and experiencing the social aspect of the game, and 50% dungeon crawling. Mainline SMT games on the other hand are a lot more philosophical and they mix a lot of religious gibberish from multiple religions and pantheons in a convoluted way, especially when all the "alignment" factions very rarely... align with the usual trope of "good vs evil". Like, most of these games the "good guys" aren't actual good guys and God himself isn't much better either. It doesn't have a social aspect and most of the games are about dungeon crawling. SMT 4 and 4A were the most "story heavy" mainline games but they still were heavy on the dungeon crawling aspect.
Honestly, if it weren't for the shared monster roster, I think these games wouldn't be compared at all because they're very different. And the fact that the comparison exists kinda sucks because it's usually not very favorable for the mainline SMT games. To make an analogy, it's almost like putting a Nietzche book on the hands of a 17 to 20 year old kid that has a video game with Final Fantasy at home. It's no surprise Persona is more popular.
I also despise the fact that demons are not relevant at all in persona they are just there. They should remove demons from persona altogether and just add more teenage girls because that's what persona fans are in to.