In Portugal there is the legend that king Sebastian, who vanished in a battle agains the Moors, will eventually return and take Portugal into a golden age.
I feel so blessed, I watched their first conversation together yesterday and was thinking to myself "Aww man I'll have to probably wait awhile before they get together again" and look what we have here!! I love these conversations, thank you Jonathan and Richard :)
Amon Sul was the only one of those AFR-CU podcasts I hadn't been listening to because I hadn't read any Tolkien. After that last Universal History video i was like "oh this guy's good, i have to read LoTR now so i can unlock Amon Sul and hear more!"
The "prophecy to end all prophecy" in Daniel also speaks of the last Roman emperor and his return in association with antichrist. I am wondering how this did not come to this conversation!
Universal history fascinates me to no end! Just a few days before watching this I was learning about the history of Scotland and more specifically my surname/clan name “Campbell” and read that in An Talla Dearg, the Red Hall of Dun Briton, was born the first ancestor of the Campbells who appears in all three of the early Gaelic genealogies; Smervie or Mervyn, son of an Arthur, who became known as "the Wildman of the Woods". Once again another unknown, perhaps illegitimate son of Arthur that springs up as a sort of outsider in the woods of the Scottish Highlands.
Ok so I am really loving this series about universal history and as someone who found ( more accurately rediscovered my faith)Christ while living in LA , I can say that what they were saying about California resonated very much with me , made all the more stunning when I heard them bring it up because the first time I heard about universal history and the Matters of Britain, France and Rome I was brand new in my faith, living in a homeless shelter on Skid Row and going to school part time and was studying history and mythology for myself because I had issues with my leftist professors versions of history and the stories we tell ourselves. Also because I was there when the COVID-19 stuff started taking off and it truly felt going from 2019 to 2020 like an apocalypse. I 100% think that there is way more to that line of symbolic thought that can be explored and I as someone who absolutely loves the old idea of what California represents in Americam mind, but is saddened by what it has become i would love to see these 2 go into more detail about this or at least a Jonathon Pageau stand alone video on the symbolism of California. Great video guys.
King Sebastian I of Portugal has an awesome story which fits just perfectly in this "the king shall return and conquer the world" pattern. It's been expressed since then in poortuguese culture and literature.
"And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east." Ezekiel 8:16
. Fascinating everything you say about the eucharist as eschaton is shadowed forth in the conclusion of the grail story, and 'the achievement of the grail'
It would be extremely useful to see how all of this is related to one’s personal journey towards theosis/illumination. I presume these patterns also play out in the individual’s soul, and not just in a historical, culture wide way?
What they said about on the margins being the Antichrist and Christ made sense to me in my soul. I kind of moved to the margins of society, after being ostracized by my friends for questioning the way the world was going. I was Atheist at the time, but something inside made me feel like something was off. So, I took in as much information as I could, all the while losing more and more friends, due to what I was learning. On the edge, I was faced with the truth, and a decision. I could choose to turn back and follow the world, or I could accept that I now love on the margin and follow Christ, with a new life. I chose God.
@@virginiusmaximus7006 I grew up an atheist as well, and so it's interesting seeing something of a mirror to my own experience, reflected in you. :) God bless you. I'm just a newbie on my journey, but we're walking the same path, my friend!
It is true. I came from an American Protestant background growing up and was called to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church even though it was very foreign to me in culture and religious practice. I was finally baptized in 2019 and it has been like coming home to a family I never knew I had.
Really enjoyed this discussion and I am looking forward to the discussion on Ethiopia. As I explore faith further, I am wondering about the signs along my journey to here. My family was non-religious but I found myself studying Procopius of Ceasarea and becoming interested in late antiquity a niche amongst my fellow students at university. Why then, am I so interested in Procopius' Red Sea digression in book 1 of his Persian wars? wherein Justinian aims to bring onto his side the Axumites/Aethiopians for religious reasons? I found myself embroiled in the nuance of Orthodox, Monophysite, and Miaphysite christology unable to comprehend due to my complete misunderstanding of Christianity due to my upbringing. How does the Red Sea transform from being what Ifran Kawar described as, Justinian's Miaphysite sea, a religious bulwark against the Sassanids to within 60 years become the birthplace of Islam?
Thank you for touching on Norse mythology and explaining the boat that will return in the end times (made of people's finger nails). That was always weird to me and now that you've explained it, it all seems so simple.
That point about the veneration of Tsar Nicholas by Western Converts seems to be true, one of the first icons I bought was one of the Holy Royal Martyrs.
As a new subscriber, I am greatly enriched by experiencing your talks and discussions. As a Christian, I love the treasures of imagery that enlarge my understanding of scripture and my awe of Christ. As a lover of literature, I am feasting on the folklore and especially the discussions of Tolkien, who I have read and reread since I was ten, about sixty years. And as an illustrator, I truly enjoy your work. I am not orthodox, but a family friend is a priest and we have had many wonderful discussions about tradition and theology.Thank you for introducing and enlarging my appreciation of this ancient tradition. I will be purchasing the Hymns of St. Ephrem. Jonathan, who is the saint mounted on the lion in the picture that appears behind you at times? What is his story? Can this print be purchased? Again, thanks for truly enriching my thinking. It is like coming home in a way.
@@M-i-k-a-e-l Just check out the vids I have made on my channel. Ethiopia is mentioned in most of them, especially the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
The part about actors and performers who Romans viewed as the lowest rung of society driving politics reminded me of that time Biden wasnt talking to reporters but was interviewed by cardiB
There is a portuguese legend of a returning king too! Sebastian of Portugal. I believe here in Brazil we also have a pattern of degeneracy concomitant with holiness. Maybe it extends to the continent as a whole. I´ve heard some professors talking about Portugal as being the edge of the west too. Very interesting to see the overlapping symbolic relationship.
It caught me off guard when you mentioned West Virginia, but we have a strong little pocket of ROCOR presence here. So yes, we definitely venerate the The Royal Martyrs (which includes Tsar Nicholas of course). They are Saints after all!
Interesting, the part on actors in Rome. Makes me wonder, if Christ’s rebuke of the Pharisees by calling them ‘hypocrites’ isn’t a lot more insulting than first assumed.
The apocalypse is simply a changing time. A warning of the events that are triggering alchemical effects for time to make adjustments to new potentialities. God's or archetypal consciousness views the image through a fractal lense and can send different thoughtform energies through your instinctual patterns to spread this information. Your content is truly impressive for expressing symbolic imagery and true meaning.
7:40 "The Idea that you have principality that is cut off, but then it reappears somewhere else unexpected later on" Reminds idea that some things that are repressed in their expression may find another expression unconsciously. So it's like if expression in "culture" is not possible then it may find wild expression, on periphery. Maybe it's something important that try to find its way to a center.
I'm totally enthralled listening to this interview I'd known only little about the Arthurian legends and others. Anyway, a very intriguing show especially in light of the times we're currently in.
For anyone that finds it interesting...Dr. Michael Heiser PhD in Near Eastern cultures and Old Testament scholar is a fascinating guy, talks about the ancient cultures to bring the Hebreic scriptures alive and also is well versed in the attic? Greek of the NT as well. His pod is the Naked Bible. Discusses what he calls the Divine council worldview. He derives this from Dueteronomy 32. No denominal substructure, so E. Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Messianic Jews could have a deeper understanding of scripture. I also have come to enjoy Spencer Klavans pod Young Heretics. His podcast is all about Western Civilization from ancient Greece to C.S Lewis. He talks about the literature discussed in this podcast with Pageau. Specifically Beowulf, King Arthur and tying in Christ over and over. Love all these podcasts. Jonathan Pagaeu, Michael Heiser, Spencer Klavan and many others are giving folks an understanding of the world in the past that is sorely lacking. God Bless
Mr. Pageau, Ive been a wandering Christian for some time now. I’ve been struggling to commune with other Christians because I feel that they have lost their way. I would love to hear your thoughts on the symbolism of what a church is itself, as Jesus intended. In Matthew 16:18, it stands out to me that Jesus said I will build MY church instead of THE church. Any “church” that submits to the wickedness of the culture can’t be the same church Jesus spoke of since he also stated the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I feel that churches today have become THE church. With all that said, do you believe that church is a symbolic communion, rather than a building or institution? do you have any advice on me finding a Christian community?
I so feel you, brother. Have been in a similar process and struggle for years, still am, and the anguish and longing is intensifying by the day. Almost to the point of despondency. May I ask what sparks your spirit most in the various different 'christianities'?
Have you considered the Orthodox Church? Jonathan is a member and so am I. I'm not Jonathan but I can tell you that the Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ. The people are in communion with Christ and one another. I suggest looking into it.
There's a prophecy from Mount Athos about a sleeper emperor, but it's not the last one since he died an uniate. Is about the Emperor Saint Ioannis (John) Vatatzis.
This is all very interesting! In Denmark there is a (nationally) famous statue of Holger Danske. He is slumbering in the cellars of Elsinore Castle until he returns to save the land. I have had never thought about that story being part of a pattern.
Ha, I also hate the word "problematic" but occasionally catch myself using it too. It's sadly used to refer to human beings very often these days. "Problems" have solutions, and so they're talking about solving the problem of people they disagree with. That particular language should sound familiar to any student of the 20th century history. It's completely unacceptable.
The word "toxic" is an even worse way to describe people you have problems with. It's like perceiving other people as a poison and you have to keep away from it or expell it from your body (or the body of society). Of course, this idea of other people as "toxic" is especially relevant today with all the covid stuff.
I believe that there will be nothing remaining because everything has to be accounted for... and also Evil has no substance it is rather made out of disordered partial goods (it's a bad trick), so when all the chaos (ocean) is gone then the trickery of evil will be gone and only the good will be there. The beatific vision, the pure contemplation of the good himself and his holy kingdom, the new Jerusalem and our Lord Jesus Christ the King of all.
Would love to see a conversation "across the aisle" between (one of) you two and Dr. Michael Heiser, regarding the Unseen Realm, ancient mythology etc. And also between you and Peter Leithart regarding reenchantment, sacramental storytelling etc. ... One can hope.
I agree. Francis Schaeffer in his book, Escape from Reason, pegs Dante as the hinge figure. Although many disagree, he thought that Thomas Aquinas signals the shift, as well. It took us 700 years to slowly unravel reality.
@@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 I don't believe Thomas Aquinas did that. People forget that he was a mystic himself. He's called the Angelic Doctor for a reason
John III Doukas Vatatzes AKA St. John III the Merciful is the marble emperor, not Constantine XI Palaiologos. The former was one of the all-time greatest East Roman rulers, fought to regain East Roman lands from the Latins in the decades following the Fourth Crusade, & became a Saint whose relics were incorrupt after seven years. The latter sold out to the Latins for help against the Turks & lost Constantinople. Big difference, & credit where credit is due. Other than that the discussion was wonderful. Many thanks to you both!
This series is very interesting and packed with great info. Intriguing how everything is connected throughout history. he explains it very well. The little sidetrack about Commodus clubbing crippled veterans was so revolting though. Obviously, there were a lot of deranged characters in high positions (like now).
@9:45 Talking about Christ rising up from the stump of Jesse, I see why the genealogies in Matthew were included there. The Jews must have been hanging on every word. I wonder if this came up in Christ’s conversation on the road to Emmaus.
@@RichardRohlin Yeah, sitting in a 20thC interpretation of Roman sensibility, ie.) full of themselves haha. Also, I can report the mask is off now, thank God.
You mention that orthodox churches in Russia maintain a separation between the sacred and the secular by having only sacred icons within the Church. In looking at the Russian Cathedral of he Armed Forces, this would seem not to be the case: there are scenes of many battles of the Russian army within the Church itself, mingled with sacred icons.
No more sea = no one left or will duplicate after him ..... As in 🌊💦 marked authenticity 👈 inherited birthright !!!..... Nice works Jonathan P. + your guest speaker....
Regarding the lack of ocean in the new Jerusalem and winnowing of creation to what is inside the walls and out around the 57:00 mark. Perhaps if the oceans waters are thought not just synonymous with chaos but also potential. That the New Jerusalem is the final completion, there are no untamed waters left beyond it's domain. Perhaps then what is left outside is to fade in the sands of a desert, symbolically speaking?
There’s also variations on Ragnarok where it’s not a chariot but a ship made of toenails of the unworthy dead (all those who didn’t make it to Vahalla). If I’m remembering correctly it’s Hella (Loki’s daughter half-dead and half-living) who captains it.
Nit picker here, btw. GREAT show, I really wanted to get an Arthurian heads-up and kudos to you for mentioning the Morgause story! But the nit pick: Levirate marriage is actually prescribed (not proscribed) in the Jewish law. Meaning if your brother dies, you MUST marry his wife (or get the boot, literally (chalitza), which was later a ritual to get out of that duty, currently prevalent IRL). So a levirate relationship when and after your brother is dead should be actually OK in the mythology influenced by the Jewish thought. Of course, while he is still alive, which would be the case here, is not OK.
Pageau’s point is that it is prescribed and symbolises life out of taboo, even though usually you wouldn’t want to mess with such ambiguities. If your dad dies, you can’t marry your step-mum, even though your dad is dead (I think). But with your brother it’s prescribed. Pageau doesn’t think the Levirate is proscribed, he said it’s surprising that it is prescribed, and he thinks it’s precisely because life sometimes comes from weird places.
"From the east comes Hrym with shield held high; In giant-wrath does the serpent writhe; O'er the waves he twists, and the tawny eagle Gnaws corpses screaming; Naglfar is loose. O'er the sea from the north there sails a ship With the people of Hel, at the helm stands Loki; After the wolf do wild men follow, And with them the brother of Byleist goes."
Elvis connected to space needle and aliens. he also looks like trump (elvis has naturally blonde hair and an identical twin who died at birth). so much gematria and predictive planning, whatever event eventually happens will really shape our society for the future. lots of predictions that it will happen on a 6/11 (upsidedown 9/11). but agenda 2030 means maybe not until end of the decade 2021 - 2030. Whatever it is hope people are safe :)
Is it possible that these guys are approaching this from more of an academic level of interpretation and missing the mark rather than looking at revelation 13 and the mystery of antichrist and the beast from a spiritual level thereby loosing the real meaning of what is being shown? The purpose of the revelation of Jesus Christ is to give an insider look at what is, what was and what is to come. It's not a puzzle to solve, its a blessing to the one who reads by explaining the end of the age of evil and the ushering in of the reign of Christ Jesus The King. No man will present the returning of Christ Jesus, He will be witnessed by all.
Great conversation! I want to read more about messianic movements and particularly this idea that they embody a process of rejuvenating a religious tradition by reseeding something discarded to the margins.. any book recommendations?
You might also look into the legend of St.Joan of Arc and the sword that was hidden , but revealed to her by the saints hidden in the floor behind the alter of a French church, she used it in battle , it was said to be broken but also hidden , her purpose was to reinstate the French King, no coincidence ...Perhaps it might return for a final showing ....based on fact , told by St.Joan herself....Great story.
St. Joan's ring was returned to France in 2016. Some take this as a sign of things to come in France. There is a catholic tradition stating that before the world ends, France will go through a great crisis and Paris will be destroyed, happening around the 3 days of darkness, after which France converts back to Catholicism and Monarchy under the last roman emperor.
I guess, my main question I keep coming back to would be, aren't we the modern day extension of Rome? We definitely seem to have been modeled after Rome in the beginning stages, and there are many current parallels one could point to. Though, I'm new to all this so maybe I'm off the plot and that doesn't apply. Fascinating discussion, though. I've always been contrarian to orthodox religions, but maybe I didn't quite understand what I was interpreting. Either way, fascinating. *EDIT I made this comment after listening for an hour, had things to do, needless to say, should've finished the last 20 minutes before commenting, lol
59:41 Another example of superstition. Namely, during the attack on Constantinople, there was a widespread belief among the citizens that if the defense of the city fell, all those who happened to be in St. Sophia to be ascended and thus saved from carnage. That is one of the reasons why the city was so easily conquered, because thousands of people used to rush to the temple to save themselves, instead of participating in the defense of the city. And yes, there is also that belief about entering the temple walls mentioned by Jonathan. At present, there are many such beliefs, mostly derived from Greek folklore. Many Orthodox who have a Protestant-like belief system believe in such stories and look forward to those events, putting them at the forefront of the effort to save their souls.
It would be way cool to see an interview with you and Bill Donahue, he have about 900 videos with bible symbolism, sadly he can't see much past his meditation stick but he's still a real cool dude and I bet he would learn a lot from you :)
This talk of christ vs antichrist, banished principalities coming back stronger, messianic lines seemingly cut off, remnants accumulating on the fringes before bringing chaos, things going downhill as preformative celebreties gain power. All of that seems to be present in the My Hero Academia maga/anime. I wonder if that's worth looking into more.
Looking forward to your discussion about Ethiopia. Interesting that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the Book of Enoch in their biblical canon. Will you be discussing the book "Unknown Empire" by Dean Arnold?
Orkney isn't really a rock in the North Sea. It's decently flat except for it's southernmost islands, and it is very close to mainland Scotland.Shetland is more of a rock in the middle of the sea, though it seems to only be sparingly mentioned historically (probably because it was so remote)
For years I wondered why JK Rowling had written Harry encountering an old witch in Knockturn Alley carrying a tray of fingernails. Now I know. Thank you.
Have either of you read Father Elijah by Michael O’Brien? Around minute 12 when you discuss the reading of Revelation I thought of Father Elijah’s vision of the sphere.
RIP to my afternoon commitments
Memory eternal 😄
Hahahahaha
Haha
RIP to my 1am sleep
@@MrAljab RIP to my 6 am sleep
So excited about this! :)
In Portugal there is the legend that king Sebastian, who vanished in a battle agains the Moors, will eventually return and take Portugal into a golden age.
Neat
Thought exactly the same and didn't even had read your comment then 😀
Listened to Amon Sul all morning, and now this. What a blessing 🙏
I feel so blessed, I watched their first conversation together yesterday and was thinking to myself "Aww man I'll have to probably wait awhile before they get together again" and look what we have here!! I love these conversations, thank you Jonathan and Richard :)
You're gonna love the news I have for you...
Amon Sul was the only one of those AFR-CU podcasts I hadn't been listening to because I hadn't read any Tolkien. After that last Universal History video i was like "oh this guy's good, i have to read LoTR now so i can unlock Amon Sul and hear more!"
Read along with us!
Oh, are you reading through it on Amon Sul?
We're reading through the Silmarillion right now.
@@jytogatewood we're reading through The Silmarillion right now. Those episodes drop on the 10th of each month.
@@RichardRohlin Alright, you talked me into it!
The "prophecy to end all prophecy" in Daniel also speaks of the last Roman emperor and his return in association with antichrist. I am wondering how this did not come to this conversation!
When you reach the end you find the first was the last*****Christ the Most High***** loved your discussion, thank you.
Universal history fascinates me to no end! Just a few days before watching this I was learning about the history of Scotland and more specifically my surname/clan name “Campbell” and read that in An Talla Dearg, the Red Hall of Dun Briton, was born the first ancestor of the Campbells who appears in all three of the early Gaelic genealogies; Smervie or Mervyn, son of an Arthur, who became known as "the Wildman of the Woods". Once again another unknown, perhaps illegitimate son of Arthur that springs up as a sort of outsider in the woods of the Scottish Highlands.
Eventually the world will find that artists are far more powerful than we have ever realized.
Ok so I am really loving this series about universal history and as someone who found ( more accurately rediscovered my faith)Christ while living in LA , I can say that what they were saying about California resonated very much with me , made all the more stunning when I heard them bring it up because the first time I heard about universal history and the Matters of Britain, France and Rome I was brand new in my faith, living in a homeless shelter on Skid Row and going to school part time and was studying history and mythology for myself because I had issues with my leftist professors versions of history and the stories we tell ourselves. Also because I was there when the COVID-19 stuff started taking off and it truly felt going from 2019 to 2020 like an apocalypse. I 100% think that there is way more to that line of symbolic thought that can be explored and I as someone who absolutely loves the old idea of what California represents in Americam mind, but is saddened by what it has become i would love to see these 2 go into more detail about this or at least a Jonathon Pageau stand alone video on the symbolism of California.
Great video guys.
Excellent conversation and fascinating guest!
Join this discord server for discussion about covid, the great reset and big pharma. discord.gg/fj3jqFmYej
@Pakistan Is Stronger Than America
You are foolish and you are begging people to become like you😂😂
King Sebastian I of Portugal has an awesome story which fits just perfectly in this "the king shall return and conquer the world" pattern. It's been expressed since then in poortuguese culture and literature.
I'm unaware. Something to look into! 🤔👍🏻
These discussions encourage further exploration of topics touched upon by you both. Thank you it’s all very interesting information.
Julius Evola's The Mystery of the Grail: Initiation and Magic in the Quest for the Spirit is a great book on the subject.
I VERY MUCH miss the great music at the beginning of the videos! Please bring it back!
Hyped for this one 😎
Hi SymbolicMemez!!! Love your meme videos!!!
"And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east." Ezekiel 8:16
. Fascinating everything you say about the eucharist as eschaton is shadowed forth in the conclusion of the grail story, and 'the achievement of the grail'
Fancy seeing you here Malcolm, I must say I really enjoy your videos, especially on the topic of Tolkien :)
It would be extremely useful to see how all of this is related to one’s personal journey towards theosis/illumination. I presume these patterns also play out in the individual’s soul, and not just in a historical, culture wide way?
One would think, which honestly gives me hope. I would love to hear this expounded upon, as you have mentioned.
What they said about on the margins being the Antichrist and Christ made sense to me in my soul. I kind of moved to the margins of society, after being ostracized by my friends for questioning the way the world was going.
I was Atheist at the time, but something inside made me feel like something was off. So, I took in as much information as I could, all the while losing more and more friends, due to what I was learning. On the edge, I was faced with the truth, and a decision. I could choose to turn back and follow the world, or I could accept that I now love on the margin and follow Christ, with a new life. I chose God.
@@virginiusmaximus7006 Thank you for sharing that...I can in some ways relate...
@@virginiusmaximus7006 I grew up an atheist as well, and so it's interesting seeing something of a mirror to my own experience, reflected in you. :) God bless you. I'm just a newbie on my journey, but we're walking the same path, my friend!
It is true. I came from an American Protestant background growing up and was called to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church even though it was very foreign to me in culture and religious practice. I was finally baptized in 2019 and it has been like coming home to a family I never knew I had.
Really enjoyed this discussion and I am looking forward to the discussion on Ethiopia. As I explore faith further, I am wondering about the signs along my journey to here. My family was non-religious but I found myself studying Procopius of Ceasarea and becoming interested in late antiquity a niche amongst my fellow students at university. Why then, am I so interested in Procopius' Red Sea digression in book 1 of his Persian wars? wherein Justinian aims to bring onto his side the Axumites/Aethiopians for religious reasons? I found myself embroiled in the nuance of Orthodox, Monophysite, and Miaphysite christology unable to comprehend due to my complete misunderstanding of Christianity due to my upbringing. How does the Red Sea transform from being what Ifran Kawar described as, Justinian's Miaphysite sea, a religious bulwark against the Sassanids to within 60 years become the birthplace of Islam?
Super duper interesting!
Also, Jonathan you have a mention in my Ancient Cultures assignment!
Thank you for touching on Norse mythology and explaining the boat that will return in the end times (made of people's finger nails). That was always weird to me and now that you've explained it, it all seems so simple.
It's still weird.
WHAT. A. FEAST! Thank you guys!
Yes Constantine is a statue outside York Minster. He is seated reclining on a type of throne. As far as I know it is still there.
That point about the veneration of Tsar Nicholas by Western Converts seems to be true, one of the first icons I bought was one of the Holy Royal Martyrs.
As a new subscriber, I am greatly enriched by experiencing your talks and discussions. As a Christian, I love the treasures of imagery that enlarge my understanding of scripture and my awe of Christ. As a lover of literature, I am feasting on the folklore and especially the discussions of Tolkien, who I have read and reread since I was ten, about sixty years. And as an illustrator, I truly enjoy your work. I am not orthodox, but a family friend is a priest and we have had many wonderful discussions about tradition and theology.Thank you for introducing and enlarging my appreciation of this ancient tradition. I will be purchasing the Hymns of St. Ephrem.
Jonathan, who is the saint mounted on the lion in the picture that appears behind you at times? What is his story? Can this print be purchased? Again, thanks for truly enriching my thinking. It is like coming home in a way.
I believe the picture appearing behind mr. Pageau is an icon of the prophet Jonah
Definitely looking forward to the Ethiopian tie- in! Ifeel like there is a lot of 'lost' Israelite and Christian history there...
Oh, you don't even know!
Ethiopia is a spiritual treasure trove.
Isn't Ethiopia where one of the 12 tribes of Israel ended up?
@@thenowchurch6419 Would you say some more? This is new to me.
@@M-i-k-a-e-l Just check out the vids I have made on my channel.
Ethiopia is mentioned in most of them, especially the Tewahedo Ethiopian Orthodox Church.
The part about actors and performers who Romans viewed as the lowest rung of society driving politics reminded me of that time Biden wasnt talking to reporters but was interviewed by cardiB
This series is incredible
There is a portuguese legend of a returning king too! Sebastian of Portugal. I believe here in Brazil we also have a pattern of degeneracy concomitant with holiness. Maybe it extends to the continent as a whole. I´ve heard some professors talking about Portugal as being the edge of the west too. Very interesting to see the overlapping symbolic relationship.
Filling my Christmas vacation with stuff like Pageau and Heiser …and a couple of cat videos. Loving this time of life!
What an amazing podcast. I really enjoy this exploration of the past. Thanks a lot for this video
Im fascinating listening to you guys! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!!
I’m loving these conversations with Richard. Great stuff guys. God bless.
It caught me off guard when you mentioned West Virginia, but we have a strong little pocket of ROCOR presence here. So yes, we definitely venerate the The Royal Martyrs (which includes Tsar Nicholas of course). They are Saints after all!
There's a monastery near you with a great shrine to the Royal Martyrs, which is what I had in mind.
This was terribly lovely. Thank you both.
Thanks for the wonderful, thoughtful podcasts and youtube videos, Pageau!
Looooooveeeed it, can’t wait to hear with Paul.
Interesting, the part on actors in Rome. Makes me wonder, if Christ’s rebuke of the Pharisees by calling them ‘hypocrites’ isn’t a lot more insulting than first assumed.
The apocalypse is simply a changing time. A warning of the events that are triggering alchemical effects for time to make adjustments to new potentialities.
God's or archetypal consciousness views the image through a fractal lense and can send different thoughtform energies through your instinctual patterns to spread this information.
Your content is truly impressive for expressing symbolic imagery and true meaning.
More of this! This is awesome
I really like the videos with Richard. I have been watching history videos to better understand some of the things he is talking about.
7:40 "The Idea that you have principality that is cut off, but then it reappears somewhere else unexpected later on"
Reminds idea that some things that are repressed in their expression may find another expression unconsciously. So it's like if expression in "culture" is not possible then it may find wild expression, on periphery. Maybe it's something important that try to find its way to a center.
“I tell you that if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.”
@@hmkzosimaskrampis3185 stumbling stones?
@@dmitrypetrouk8924 Luke 19:40
Amazing content; really looking forward to the Ethiopia episode!!!
I'm totally enthralled listening to this interview I'd known only little about the Arthurian legends and others. Anyway, a very intriguing show especially in light of the times we're currently in.
Please do more with Richard!
For anyone that finds it interesting...Dr. Michael Heiser PhD in Near Eastern cultures and Old Testament scholar is a fascinating guy, talks about the ancient cultures to bring the Hebreic scriptures alive and also is well versed in the attic? Greek of the NT as well. His pod is the Naked Bible. Discusses what he calls the Divine council worldview. He derives this from Dueteronomy 32. No denominal substructure, so E. Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Messianic Jews could have a deeper understanding of scripture. I also have come to enjoy Spencer Klavans pod Young Heretics. His podcast is all about Western Civilization from ancient Greece to C.S Lewis. He talks about the literature discussed in this podcast with Pageau. Specifically Beowulf, King Arthur and tying in Christ over and over. Love all these podcasts. Jonathan Pagaeu, Michael Heiser, Spencer Klavan and many others are giving folks an understanding of the world in the past that is sorely lacking. God Bless
Awesome discussion
Mr. Pageau, Ive been a wandering Christian for some time now. I’ve been struggling to commune with other Christians because I feel that they have lost their way. I would love to hear your thoughts on the symbolism of what a church is itself, as Jesus intended. In Matthew 16:18, it stands out to me that Jesus said I will build MY church instead of THE church. Any “church” that submits to the wickedness of the culture can’t be the same church Jesus spoke of since he also stated the gates of hell will not prevail against it. I feel that churches today have become THE church. With all that said, do you believe that church is a symbolic communion, rather than a building or institution? do you have any advice on me finding a Christian community?
I so feel you, brother.
Have been in a similar process and struggle for years, still am, and the anguish and longing is intensifying by the day. Almost to the point of despondency.
May I ask what sparks your spirit most in the various different 'christianities'?
Have you considered the Orthodox Church? Jonathan is a member and so am I. I'm not Jonathan but I can tell you that the Orthodox Church is the Body of Christ. The people are in communion with Christ and one another. I suggest looking into it.
There's a prophecy from Mount Athos about a sleeper emperor, but it's not the last one since he died an uniate. Is about the Emperor Saint Ioannis (John) Vatatzis.
This is all very interesting! In Denmark there is a (nationally) famous statue of Holger Danske. He is slumbering in the cellars of Elsinore Castle until he returns to save the land. I have had never thought about that story being part of a pattern.
Ha, I also hate the word "problematic" but occasionally catch myself using it too. It's sadly used to refer to human beings very often these days. "Problems" have solutions, and so they're talking about solving the problem of people they disagree with. That particular language should sound familiar to any student of the 20th century history. It's completely unacceptable.
The word "toxic" is an even worse way to describe people you have problems with. It's like perceiving other people as a poison and you have to keep away from it or expell it from your body (or the body of society). Of course, this idea of other people as "toxic" is especially relevant today with all the covid stuff.
Especially since we have Yale guest speakers fantasizing about shooting white people and acting like she would be saving the world....what a psycho.
Please bring back your musical intro, it was so rejuvenating
Been looking forward to this, loved the first video! :)
Thank you for such a wonderful video!
I believe that there will be nothing remaining because everything has to be accounted for... and also Evil has no substance it is rather made out of disordered partial goods (it's a bad trick), so when all the chaos (ocean) is gone then the trickery of evil will be gone and only the good will be there. The beatific vision, the pure contemplation of the good himself and his holy kingdom, the new Jerusalem and our Lord Jesus Christ the King of all.
Would love to see a conversation "across the aisle" between (one of) you two and Dr. Michael Heiser, regarding the Unseen Realm, ancient mythology etc. And also between you and Peter Leithart regarding reenchantment, sacramental storytelling etc. ... One can hope.
Have you ever seen the Gotthard Base Tunnel opening ceremony.
It's quite strange.
In The Discarded Image, CS Lewis highlights the fact that story and history are synonyms in the medieval realm.
Yea I see these these things begging to come together in my mind but would be interesting to know what specific movement or idea disconnected the two
I agree. Francis Schaeffer in his book, Escape from Reason, pegs Dante as the hinge figure. Although many disagree, he thought that Thomas Aquinas signals the shift, as well. It took us 700 years to slowly unravel reality.
@@thesecondlawandthetowerhou6026 I don't believe Thomas Aquinas did that. People forget that he was a mystic himself. He's called the Angelic Doctor for a reason
John III Doukas Vatatzes AKA St. John III the Merciful is the marble emperor, not Constantine XI Palaiologos.
The former was one of the all-time greatest East Roman rulers, fought to regain East Roman lands from the Latins in the decades following the Fourth Crusade, & became a Saint whose relics were incorrupt after seven years.
The latter sold out to the Latins for help against the Turks & lost Constantinople.
Big difference, & credit where credit is due. Other than that the discussion was wonderful. Many thanks to you both!
Y'all could probably spin this off into a whole series. Or even a podcast unto itself. "MetaCulture with Dick and Jon"
this comment did not get enough love in my opinion. So heres some :-)
2 years later. this gave me a chuckle lol
This is awesome! I have started reading Arthurian material in this way. I was recently introduced to the Symbolic World.
This series is very interesting and packed with great info. Intriguing how everything is connected throughout history. he explains it very well.
The little sidetrack about Commodus clubbing crippled veterans was so revolting though. Obviously, there were a lot of deranged characters in high positions (like now).
@9:45 Talking about Christ rising up from the stump of Jesse, I see why the genealogies in Matthew were included there. The Jews must have been hanging on every word. I wonder if this came up in Christ’s conversation on the road to Emmaus.
As someone who lives in York, I can tell you that he has not been taken down. But he has been masked. No joke.
Couldn't figure out if I needed to like or dislike this. Thanks for the update. I'm glad to know he's still standing (sitting?).
@@RichardRohlin Yeah, sitting in a 20thC interpretation of Roman sensibility, ie.) full of themselves haha.
Also, I can report the mask is off now, thank God.
You mention that orthodox churches in Russia maintain a separation between the sacred and the secular by having only sacred icons within the Church. In looking at the Russian Cathedral of he Armed Forces, this would seem not to be the case: there are scenes of many battles of the Russian army within the Church itself, mingled with sacred icons.
I'm a South Carolinian, and Russia is one of my favorite countries. Dostoyevsky is one of my favorite authors.
No more sea = no one left or will duplicate after him ..... As in 🌊💦 marked authenticity 👈 inherited birthright !!!.....
Nice works Jonathan P. + your guest speaker....
Vert interesting, Thank you!
Regarding the lack of ocean in the new Jerusalem and winnowing of creation to what is inside the walls and out around the 57:00 mark. Perhaps if the oceans waters are thought not just synonymous with chaos but also potential. That the New Jerusalem is the final completion, there are no untamed waters left beyond it's domain. Perhaps then what is left outside is to fade in the sands of a desert, symbolically speaking?
There’s also variations on Ragnarok where it’s not a chariot but a ship made of toenails of the unworthy dead (all those who didn’t make it to Vahalla). If I’m remembering correctly it’s Hella (Loki’s daughter half-dead and half-living) who captains it.
Nit picker here, btw. GREAT show, I really wanted to get an Arthurian heads-up and kudos to you for mentioning the Morgause story! But the nit pick: Levirate marriage is actually prescribed (not proscribed) in the Jewish law. Meaning if your brother dies, you MUST marry his wife (or get the boot, literally (chalitza), which was later a ritual to get out of that duty, currently prevalent IRL). So a levirate relationship when and after your brother is dead should be actually OK in the mythology influenced by the Jewish thought. Of course, while he is still alive, which would be the case here, is not OK.
Pageau’s point is that it is prescribed and symbolises life out of taboo, even though usually you wouldn’t want to mess with such ambiguities. If your dad dies, you can’t marry your step-mum, even though your dad is dead (I think). But with your brother it’s prescribed. Pageau doesn’t think the Levirate is proscribed, he said it’s surprising that it is prescribed, and he thinks it’s precisely because life sometimes comes from weird places.
'Naglfar' is the ship made of dead men's finger and toenails. It is the troop transport for the gnarlies at the final battle.
"From the east comes Hrym with shield held high;
In giant-wrath does the serpent writhe;
O'er the waves he twists, and the tawny eagle
Gnaws corpses screaming; Naglfar is loose.
O'er the sea from the north there sails a ship
With the people of Hel, at the helm stands Loki;
After the wolf do wild men follow,
And with them the brother of Byleist goes."
In Seattle there waiting for the return of Elvis
Elvis connected to space needle and aliens. he also looks like trump (elvis has naturally blonde hair and an identical twin who died at birth). so much gematria and predictive planning, whatever event eventually happens will really shape our society for the future. lots of predictions that it will happen on a 6/11 (upsidedown 9/11). but agenda 2030 means maybe not until end of the decade 2021 - 2030. Whatever it is hope people are safe :)
What do you mean? I'm from Wa, and haven't heard this
I love Constantine. When I converted to Roman Catholicism ten years ago I bought an icon of Constantine that I keep on my prayer altar.
Are you still RC?
@@33-vertebrae yes. Devotedly.
Beautiful stuffs 😭😭😭
Is it possible that these guys are approaching this from more of an academic level of interpretation and missing the mark rather than looking at revelation 13 and the mystery of antichrist and the beast from a spiritual level thereby loosing the real meaning of what is being shown? The purpose of the revelation of Jesus Christ is to give an insider look at what is, what was and what is to come. It's not a puzzle to solve, its a blessing to the one who reads by explaining the end of the age of evil and the ushering in of the reign of Christ Jesus The King. No man will present the returning of Christ Jesus, He will be witnessed by all.
Great conversation! I want to read more about messianic movements and particularly this idea that they embody a process of rejuvenating a religious tradition by reseeding something discarded to the margins.. any book recommendations?
Thanks
Yay, interesting topic¡
You might also look into the legend of St.Joan of Arc and the sword that was hidden , but revealed to her by the saints hidden in the floor behind the alter of a French church, she used it in battle , it was said to be broken but also hidden , her purpose was to reinstate the French King, no coincidence ...Perhaps it might return for a final showing ....based on fact , told by St.Joan herself....Great story.
St. Joan's ring was returned to France in 2016. Some take this as a sign of things to come in France. There is a catholic tradition stating that before the world ends, France will go through a great crisis and Paris will be destroyed, happening around the 3 days of darkness, after which France converts back to Catholicism and Monarchy under the last roman emperor.
I guess, my main question I keep coming back to would be, aren't we the modern day extension of Rome? We definitely seem to have been modeled after Rome in the beginning stages, and there are many current parallels one could point to. Though, I'm new to all this so maybe I'm off the plot and that doesn't apply. Fascinating discussion, though. I've always been contrarian to orthodox religions, but maybe I didn't quite understand what I was interpreting. Either way, fascinating. *EDIT I made this comment after listening for an hour, had things to do, needless to say, should've finished the last 20 minutes before commenting, lol
brilliant
Ocean probably means potential for renewal (why it doesn't exist in the eschaton)
Any thoughts on Justinian and Theodora and their connections to the world of entertainment through chariot racing and actressing?
The Japanese talked about the Christian rebel Amakusa Shirō returning for revenge after his execution.
59:41
Another example of superstition.
Namely, during the attack on Constantinople, there was a widespread belief among the citizens that if the defense of the city fell, all those who happened to be in St. Sophia to be ascended and thus saved from carnage.
That is one of the reasons why the city was so easily conquered, because thousands of people used to rush to the temple to save themselves, instead of participating in the defense of the city.
And yes, there is also that belief about entering the temple walls mentioned by Jonathan.
At present, there are many such beliefs, mostly derived from Greek folklore. Many Orthodox who have a Protestant-like belief system believe in such stories and look forward to those events, putting them at the forefront of the effort to save their souls.
Constantinople was attacked for a thousand years before it fell
Let’s gooooo
Isn't there a book or a list where I can read more about the universal history?
It would be way cool to see an interview with you and Bill Donahue, he have about 900 videos with bible symbolism, sadly he can't see much past his meditation stick but he's still a real cool dude and I bet he would learn a lot from you :)
I like Constantine too. Pretty much changed history (as directed apparently)
This talk of christ vs antichrist, banished principalities coming back stronger, messianic lines seemingly cut off, remnants accumulating on the fringes before bringing chaos, things going downhill as preformative celebreties gain power. All of that seems to be present in the My Hero Academia maga/anime. I wonder if that's worth looking into more.
Looking forward to your discussion about Ethiopia. Interesting that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the Book of Enoch in their biblical canon. Will you be discussing the book "Unknown Empire" by Dean Arnold?
Iocaine reference was on point.
Orkney isn't really a rock in the North Sea. It's decently flat except for it's southernmost islands, and it is very close to mainland Scotland.Shetland is more of a rock in the middle of the sea, though it seems to only be sparingly mentioned historically (probably because it was so remote)
For years I wondered why JK Rowling had written Harry encountering an old witch in Knockturn Alley carrying a tray of fingernails. Now I know. Thank you.
In which book does this appear?
@@davidchiranu808 I believe it was in The Chamber of Secrets.
@@LB-zp5ot cool man! I will have a look at it too :D
Have either of you read Father Elijah by Michael O’Brien? Around minute 12 when you discuss the reading of Revelation I thought of Father Elijah’s vision of the sphere.
Also the devotion to Blessed Karl and his wife Zita is taking hold in the U.S.
I haven't ever put the two together in regards to the reign of Nero being totalitarian degeneracy, and seeing that rising again in the western world.