Hey all. I know this is a bit of a controversial one, but it was one of the biggest worldview shifts I had during my own deconversion and I am very passionate about it.
It’s one of the most important shifts after deconstruction. There’s very few ex Christian’s that still hold on to the same view after leaving. There are always new people leaving and always new people that need to hear this! Thank you!
Yeah thank God we have gay rights so now kids are being brainwashed and chemically and physically castrated. Before you shout "slippery slope fallacy", just shut up, it's blatantly obvious one led to the other.
have you not seen the agenda behind that movement... they are not really coming after the church or religious people ... but the kids ... they are using the same thing that you are using ... and that is the power of suggestion ... i don't know if you have kids and i don''t know that if you are a transgender ... but to try to convince a child that his biological nature has no meaning to him and only his feeling maters is indoctrination to believe a lie ... it is wrong to teach a child in this case to indoctrinate a child that transgender is normal ... what will be the future then ... should we teach a child that pedophilia is normal? ... if they think that they are transgender because they feel like they are of the opposite sex then they have been indoctrinated to believe that ... find out who is behind the depopulation program and you will find the transgender agenda in there files ... what the transgender want to do behind close doors is up to them but to indoctrinate a child to become like them is violating the freedom of the child ... the freedom they want is to destroy other people freedom and in this case the freedom of the kids
The first thing I'd say to him is that if something is genuinely impossible, opposing it is unnecessary. Laws against it are unnecessary. Arguments against it are unnecessary. Just leave the issue alone and allow people to try -- they will fail because it is impossible. The second thing I'd say is that his statement "marriage exists the way it does in the culture" works against him. Yes, marriage exists the way it does in the culture. And that way includes gay marriages. As evidenced by all the gay marriages existing all over the place in our culture.
@@Lerian_V Gay marriage underwent prolonged and explicit public deliberation. And it merely removes previous barriers, imposing fewer restrictions on the people. And no threat to marriage has been found, save for conservatives threatening to get rid of gay marriage. All you're doing is repeating propaganda and engaging in doublethink.
Bible definition of marriage: one man, one woman. One man, many women. One man, spoils-of-war child bride. One man, one woman, many concubines. One man, many women, many concubines.
I used to believe homosexuality was wrong because I grew up believing that and religion drilled that in my head. But even before I left religion I felt conflicted. Why is it wrong? I couldn't figure that out. I remember watching a show about Neil Patrick Harris and his husband and children and thinking, "they are two people that live each other and their kids just living their life." I also found myself watching shows that featured transsexuals and being intrigued, but not upset. I finally realized it didn't bother me because it shouldn't bother me. People loving other people should not upset anyone. People dressing the way they want or changing body parts should not upset anyone. It doesn't affect me at all. Plus, love is something we need MORE of. Thankfully, my rational mind took over and many of my preconceived thoughts were stripped away. This is just one reason I left religion.
Read about a woman who took her young son to help a lesbian friend get the reception hall ready for her wedding ceremony. On the way home, she asked him what he thought of the two women marrying. She said he thought for a while, then said, "If they love each other, they should get married."
It was my coming out and accepting myself as being gay, and not being oppressed by demons, that catapulted me into my journey of deconstructing my faith 5 years ago. Thank you for this video.
I can relate so much to this. Sending you love and light my friend. I had such hatred of myself. It's unlike anything else. Hating a part of you that you cannot change.
I'm a straight woman, but grew up questioning my femininity. I had years of torment because of a bodily difference that made me feel less feminine combined with not mentally being a "girly girl" in some ways. For some reason, I had hairy arms and legs and then after giving birth I started growing a goatee... with coarse thick hair. I shave it, put make up over it and no one knew, not even my mom. I thought something was horribly wrong and felt like a freak. Years later, I told my mom and a couple of other people. They were so kind. It still didn't alleviate my depression over that or other bodily flaws. I couldn't reconcile the fact that I was attracted to men, but had a hair pattern that many men would find disgusting or freakish. Couple that with the fact that while I'm "feminine " in many ways, I'm also not in many ways. I don't like wearing dresses. I don't wear heels even though I'm very short. I only have one purse at a time and it's cheap. I don't like having my nails long at all. So, I grew up confused and hated myself. Finally I realized I am not broken- I just don't fit into those molds completely. I say this to say- accepting people for who they are and whom they love is a beautiful thing. Plus, this will help others who are "different" not feel so freakish.
I was raised Catholic and fortunately I grew up in a relatively progressive parish, so I didn't get to hear all the fire and brimstone anti-gate. When I came out to myself, I couldn't find any reason to justify what was wrong with the way I was feeling, so I ignored what the church "officially" said. That's scary part is, when I was coming up right with Pope John Paul II was elected. So, I had to deal with all his 🐂💩, but as I said the priests at my church we're open-minded and understanding. Did also let me to just drift away from Catholicism and after a brief attempt to return not look back.
*Fun fact: Men CAN lactate!* It usually has to do with hormonal imbalance, but as they have all the necessary parts required for lactation it CAN happen. The reason they have all the necessary parts but don't usually lactate is that a) all humans start out as female, so the parts for lactation develop in everyone (hence why men have nipples when nipples are for feeding babies) and b) Men don't usually lactate because they don't typically produce enough prolactin to lactate.
Yea whatever doesn't make a man a woman mmmk? And sorry the chromosomes end up changing to male REALLY early so no lactating isn't gonna happen. And who needs it to be exactly? 99% of won't and can't care for babies ....dad or not.
Yea whatever doesn't make a man a woman mmmk? And sorry the chromosomes end up changing to male REALLY early so no lactating isn't gonna happen. And who needs it to be exactly? 99% of these "men"! won't and can't care for babies ....dad or not.
And breastmilk usually is produced after giving birth or in some cases during pregnancy. Since men can't do that they're not likely to produce breastmilk just like women when they're never give birth or never are pregnant. You have to be at least pregnant first.
@@libera7161 not really, theres records of tribes where men stimulate the chest area/nips and after 6 months to a year they can lactate and help feed their children
All the rights and privileges come by means of the government, tax rules, visitation rights, inheritance guidelines, and a variety of other things. The Church can "bless" a marriage and an ordained person may conduct the ceremony, but a Church Ceremonies are not required. Furthermore, in our society it is the Government that issues the license to legalize the marital contract. None of this requires a Church.
How is it irony? Is he going around affirming dr*g queen dancing in front of children? That's more likely coming to come from a member of the alphabet community than his community.
Orthodox priests are allowed to be married prior to ordination, fyi 😉. These are two Eastern Orthodox clergy in the video. Not sure if they're married or not, and it doesn't change the invalidity of their arguments. Just saying.
I absolutely love your channel. I struggled for years hating myself for being gay. I was told it was an abomination. I knew it from 8 years old. I prayed everyday to not be gay. Not have that deisre, just go one day without a gay thought. It was absolutely miserable. Drove me into addiction. I am now agnostic/atheist and your channel has helped me so much. Thank you so much
And this is what these religious fanatics do not understand. The amount of suffering a certain ideology can cause. When the ideology becomes more important than the very thing the ideology is supposed to support. Fact: lgbtq+ people exist, have always existed and will remain to exist Fact: straight people exist Fact: god can not be proven to exist Fact: it can not be proven that it's the work of demons or wrong upbringing that determines genderidentity or sexual preferences Fact: religion will not reduce the presence of lgbtq or straight people Fact: supressing something does not remove it's existence Fact: lgbtq + straight people are all humans who want to be happy Perhaps it's better to first accept what is fact and see how perhaps the ideology was misinterpreted. Only if it would just be so there would be less needless suffering... So people like you would not have to hate themselves for years for no reason at all.
“Marriage exists the way it is in the culture.” Culture isn’t static, it changes with the times and with the needs of the people. Religion used to be a big part of culture, but we’re watching it fade, just like we watched gay marriage become part of our culture.
I heard the hypothesis that the reason why gay marriage was not allowed in biblical times was because the Jewish people were few in number and needed to expand their numbers by whatever means possible
@@littleredpony6868 Since polygamy and concubinage was the norm for men who could afford it, that makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense is the religious people who still believe, somehow, that the world is underpopulated with human beings.
Marriage in a religious society is a contract too they just pretend it’s not. Divorce, cheating and domestic abuse occurs at exactly the same rate between religious and non religious people. Don’t buy into religious framing
I believe society is composed of contracts. marriage is a contract between two people. It's actually a religious thing and shouldn't be moderated by government. Does that mean child marriage is okay, no, and the real limiter of that is whether sexual action is taken in their marriage; that should require the state to punish at that point - regardless of the religious practice. I think it shouldn't even be an item at a national level. Also, a secular society is actually a kind of contradiction. What is meant by it implies a selective approval of a unifying belief. It moves the goal posts and anymore is a religion. Can there be 'secular' yes. 1+1 is arguably an example.
When I was a Christian, I was taught the same thing that priest(?) was saying and I would argue back that since they aren't Christians, why should our laws hold to the Christian standards? And the response that I would get back would usually be something like, "because if we let them live in sin it will ruin the morale fabric of our society and our country will stop being a Christian Nation and thus be destroyed!" I'm so glad I'm not a Christian anymore and I genuinely don't believe that me living my own life will destroy the country.
But you put other people (drug dealers, child molesters, tax cheats, etc) who are living their own lives in prison. How's that for a coherent, non-hypocritical position to hold?
Yup, I also used to use similar arguments but in a different setting. When people would complain that the Church should allow for gay marriages I'd say that it's up to the Church to make that decision and that if you did not like it, you should just not marry for the Church. If one is not a chirstian, they can not set the rules the Church ought to make. You can however dissagree with the rules at any time and question them into oblivion. I too believed these twisted religious moral arguments towards gay marriage. I think it's BS now. Marriage is subjective to the culture and society, not to what one particular religion says it is. Also, a Christian Nation does not align with Jesus' teachings anyway.
@willchristie2650 No I wasn't talking about 2 adult men who love each other. I love my father and my brothers. There's nothing wrong with loving anyone. In fact, it's a bad thing not to love. And I'm here because unlike fundamentalists and atheists, I don't live in an echo chamber of my own belief system. I want my beliefs to be challenged while I'm challenging opposing views.
Im gay...Im MARRIED. Been Married for 5 years......Works GREAT for the 2 of us!!!...But Religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet.
Your community still has the highest self destruction in the most friendly alphabet letter countries as this study shows -> November 2019, published in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health.
More young people self-destruct than older people. And more men do then woman. By this logic all young men should have their rights taken away…? This is a nothing point. Maybe it has to do with how society has been treating these people for
@@computationaltheist7267That's a moot point. A gay guy said he's living in a happy marriage and you said "but other gay people commit suicide more" - so what? Imagine that a guy says he loves Italian food and you told him "okay, but other people who love Italian food include mafia members!" Obviously, it's a non-sequitur and a non-argument.
Marriage as a concept existed before the Bible and outside of both the Bible and religion. Christianity doesn’t get to claim the word, it’s not theirs.
The pastors’ moral authority is exclusively over their parishioners. The people who walk past the door owe no obedience to these people. They have no right to try to force their values on others, who choose not to go to their churches. We don’t live in ancient Israel or Christian Roman Empire. Religious moral are an option, not an obligation. So these people must withdraw to their temples and leave the rest of us alone.
You talk as though the regime is an oppressive one like Albania, and free exercise is not allowed. Also, arguments you dislike are not necessarily religious. There is more than one view of human flourishing. People who support same sex coupling and intimacy also wrote in favor of marriage remaining one man one woman. Do you hold that you have no right to force your values on others through the law? Laws against theft and murder enforce values.
@@nics4967how many times must this be explained... Marriage is an act of mutual consent. It is decided by the two people getting married and others have no say in it. Murder, theft, and such are acts of aggression and they trample on consent, which is why they are punished by the law. It is a false equivalency to draw a simile between the two. Religious people can apply whatever custom they want over those who consent to it, period. The rest of us are not obligated to comply. If we were, that would be an act of aggression, just like murder or theft.
Many religious folks act like someone's sexual orientation is just a switch that they can flick on and off whenever they like. "You're choosing to be gay."🤦
Or they day its "demons" and they just need prayer to cure it/ push demons out. Religious people don't see prayer 7s just a way to make them self's feel good about them self's as if it will do something
My friend legitally texted my friend randomly at night in our GC n said sum that basically said "bruv you gotta turn your gay off cuz then I'm a half to drop a friend for Jesus" N he rlly said "yh am trying" n I was wtf?!😭
The individual in question is Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone, who ironically enough is the archbishop of the San Francisco archdiocese. He has a long history of opposing LGBT rights, going back to his days as which makes it interesting that the church decided to make him the archbishop of the gayest city in the United States. It's important to note that he was a Benedict XVI appointee, and was not appointed by Francis. Two months before his installation as Archbishop of San Francisco, Cordileone was picked up for drunk driving in Oakland. A little advance celebration of his new status, perhaps. And really, who of us is without sin? Cordileone has long had a reputation of opposing contraception, abortion, gay marriage, LGBT rights and indeed, he seems to think that there is no aspect of a person's sex life that is under the jurisdiction of the Church. He once proposed at a bishop's conference that it be considered a grave matter to even think about contraception. I expect that he, like many in the Catholic and old-line American Protestant churches, can read the numbers. The churches are declining in membership and influence - leaving aside the crazed evangelicals influence on the Republican party - and I sometimes think the guys like Cordileone think that the only way to right the listing ship is to hew to the most conservative of the Church's positions, and retreat from the liberalization of its theology. He is a smug little weasel.
thank you so much for taking the time to add in all this context. I usually do more research on the individuals so i can speak to them a bit more, but for a Saturday short, i did not. That is all so interesting and really adds color to how awful his position is. Thank you!
A Priest at any level would be one of the last people on earth I'd go to for advice about family or dating relationships. They are not married and must reject woman and men. I can't think of someone less qualified to advise. He has zero personal experience. I suspect there are some issues in their past that caused them to be priest in the first place. A preacher is not much better as he, like the Priest, has built his entire life around a book of fiction. His constant study of that propaganda all the while believing it real leads me to question his ablity to make proper decisions and use proper judgement.
"He once proposed at a bishop's conference that it be considered a grave matter to even think about contraception." That has been the standard for Catholicism for...ever. Catholics are allowed to use mathematics but not physics or chemistry.
Against LGBTQ+ rights not because it is "wrong", but because it is bad for the religion. It's about "selfpreservation" and in doing so denying very real people their own existence.
The primary reason for marriage is to legitimize the passing of property on to one's spouse and offspring. One of the primary reasons for prohibiting priests to marry is to prevent the passing of church property on to his spouse and offspring. Economics, pure and simple.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you covering this topic. I became a christian when I was 18, and spent 10 years as one... right through what should've been my developmental and "discovery" years. All the time begging god to "fix" me. It messed me up so badly, that even after I walked away I would spend many more years trying to sort myself out and figure out who and what I was. But pastors like that priest instilling their gross doctrine on their followers just continues to cause damage on so many young people today. It's painful. Thank you for covering this tho. I'm still going through all your videos one by one but I had to go back and revisit this one a 2nd time. :)
Damn. My heart felt good just watching your face when this idiot said the thing about legalizing men breast feeding. I was married (not legally; became legal too late for us) to a noble, brave Austrian cop...whom I met in Catholic seminary in New Orleans (didn't know him well at all as he was a year ahead of me, but they told us on the same day that we could not return because we had checked "homosexual" on our original applications; he appeared in my "cell" an hour later and asked for my phone number; greatest man I ever knew). He died before we could be legal. I APPRECIATE YOU AND WHAT YOU SAY HERE! Another thing that made my father extraordinary is that in the 70s he backed me and literally threatened to kill any man who made me unhappy. That was talk, of course. I was his son and he loved me more than anything else.And, I have an identical twin who is not queer! Ha! Thanks for this, Brandon.
I’d much rather hear them be forthright and state “my beliefs deem it sinful” rather than bend over backwards to string together some specious thinly veiled religious case against gay marriage under the guise of an impartial secular argument.
Exactly. You believe in a religion that doesn't like it, thats just fine, ill even support your right to deny marriages of gays in your private place of worship, but to infringe past that is beyond ridiculous.
But then they wouldn’t be able to control society if they just said it was sinful… it would be on the same pedestal as masterbation or working on the sabbath.
Not to them, I was taught in my average evangelical KJV bibliolatry denomination that if all of society doesn’t follow along God/Yahweh/El/Jesus takes it out on the who Nation with allowing more minor and greater calamities. Bibliolatry and superstition need to be combated directly and they are petulant children.
Simple God created man for the woman and the woman for the man, that’s the natural use Spiritually speaking Christ represents the Groom and the woman represents the church otherwise known as those who accept God Thus man and woman symbolizes God and humanity united as one Thus when you reject the natural use of man and woman your essentially saying i reject you God thus choosing sin over God “For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.” 2 Corinthians 11:2 KJV
Funny thing is, he's wrong about male-born individuals not being able to breast feed. They still have breast tissue, and that breast tissue is still functional, it just needs stimulation training, possibly some supplements that some females take to help with lactation (because even some females have trouble producing milk; I would know, my mother was one of them and I almost starved as an infant because of it). So the second he produced his example of an impossible thing, I genuinely wanted to bust out laughing.
Looking at that priest with his pretentious smile makes my blood boil. Making a fuss about something completely harmless like gay marriage as if it is the greatest crime in the world. Especially knowing what horrible and massive abuse has taken place (and probably still is going on) in the Catholic church makes me want to throw up. What an unbelievable hypocrite. Thanks Brandon for sharing this.
In the 90s, there was American Gay Atheists. The directors of the organization both died of AIDS. When one died, the family took control of the body and buried it in a Catholic cemetery. His partner protested that the man had said publicly that he did not want to be buried religiously. The priest lied and said that the man had made a deathbed conversion. My partner and I have been together for 42 years. We are not married and are on good terms with our families, but nevertheless, we have alternative legal provisions to prevent this kind of travesty from happening, which were not available in the 90s.
Christians are great at claiming someone made a "deathbed" conversion. Many non believes recommend having a witness by you in the room when you are about to die to keep Christians from lying. That is a shame one has to plan for that.
Actually, AMAB people (including cis men) _can_ lactate under the right circumstances. Everyone has the right glands, it's just a matter of activating them with the right hormones. These can be given externally by e.g. prolactin supplements (the same as would be given to a new mother who has trouble producing milk) or sometimes simply letting a baby suck will induce production of the hormones by his own body.
For sure. I should have been more clear about the exceptions but my point was more to just grant the priest his example and then to show it still had no bearing on the argument. Thanks for the input!
His arguments are ridiculous. Marriage is a legal partnership, no church has nothing to do with it, technically. Churches don't own all good things they have stolen. No straight couple would lose any darn thing if gay marriage is legalized. Why behave as if was the opposite? I remember when I first read about gay marriage as an 11 y.o. kid: an Australian singer made coming out and announced he married another guy, and said how much he'd used to hate himself because a church made him to. My first reaction was "Two guys married? It's possible? They are in love? Well, it's a good thing then". The second thought "what the hell is wrong with that church that hurt him??" I wasn't shocked by homosexuality though, just like no normal kid would.
I think a deep dive into the origins of marriage would be a great takedown topic since you can tackle the subject in a clear and thoughtful way. They really seem to think christians invented and own marriage traditions. Marriage today is a legal agreement between you, a partner and the state. It has nothing to do with anyone’s religious beliefs. Even before I knew I was bisexual, THIS is where I began to part ways with Christianity. I woke up one day and realized that if I had to choose between my gay friends and loving god, I would choose my friends. I knew I would rather go to hell. I was still very far from atheism but that was a huge revelation to contend with. It was the beginning of the end.
"I would Choose my (gay) friends ..... I'd rather go to hell" Good choice. Who would want to be in heaven with a bunch of Fundamentalist Christian anyway. You'd kill yourself.
All the gay and bi people will be in hell, so you will be much happier there. I will be much happier there, because although straight, I can't bear the thought of an eternity with christians.
Excellent video! You know, one thing that stick out to me about his whole male lactation thing is that it betrays an underlying belief that marriage is only for procreation. Marriage ultimately is about love, and he obviously totally misses that.
@BookishChas Marriage is about what the people involved in it want it to be. Sometimes it's about love, sometimes it's about something else. It's not up to anyone outside of that marriage to define what it is, or should be.
Obviously, a hateful priest with a commitment to never marry and who would callously force this same commitment to others would miss this crucial detail about marriage.
Really, the government should only do “mutual adult beneficiaries” for everyone who wants the legal status, then religions can marry whoever they want but marriage no longer has any legal status.
Just as aside, The Bible doesn't address childless couples as anything other than calamity. If a couple doesn't have children, the man gets another wife so that she can make babies. Or a SERVANT, they called them concubines. In the legalistic term of the day, that was better than other servants but definitely not a wife. Abraham literally abandoned his concubine in the desert with her child. After his wife gave birth to his other son.
I was hesitant to bring that up as a point because some obviously do take issue but yes spend your time making your smirks at the pedophiles and doing something about them within your own profession before telling a secular person who to love!!
Have you been paying attention? Equating homosexuality with pedophilia is pretty much their whole approach right now. And if someone mentions priests, they just retort about public-school teachers.
@@MindShift-BrandonThe last time I checked Brandon, it wasn't priests advocating for children to be mutilated or taken to some odd bars and meet dr*g queens. Which community can advocate for that and not get backlash?
Ask yourself which community can advocate for children to go to dr*g queen bars and not get backlash or go around marching "we"re coming for your children".
I had this argument with a Christian that I know the other day. They were going on about how they think the gay lifestyle is sinful and wicked and demonic and disgusting, and I finally said that’s homophobic. So they completely flipped out like “I’m not homophobic! I have some gay friends! If anything you’re a bigot for judging Christians!”. I’m just like “Calm down. I’m not trying to attack you. I’m just speaking technically. Having strong prejudices like yours against a group of people is being technically being phobic of that group. That fact that you have a few gay friends doesn’t erase the fact that you’re homophobic”. Needless to say the conversation didn’t end well.
"It's impossible. Just like male breastfeeding." Actually lactation in human males has been documented and observed. So that line of thinking just went out the window.
This harkens back, for me, to the whole culture war thing that seems so dumb. People are against others having rights (celebrations, heritage recognitions, etc) when it absolutely takes nothing away from their own freedoms. As you've said, granting marriage equality takes nothing away from straight couples. Nothing! I can think of nothing more American than freedom - yet so many Americans are against any form of freedom that is not "theirs".
Yup. It was going to be the collapse of marriage and the marriage industry in the US because straight people wouldn't want to be aligned with gays getting married. Fast forward a dozen years...all kinds of people are STILL getting married and still spending obscene amounts of money on the ceremony and reception. So much for that thinking.
Exactly, this is why I as a right-wing libertarian are 100% on the side of personal freedoms, including the right to pursue happiness regardless of orientation. It is sad to see fellow right-wingers, in this comment section and otherwise, choose the false path of authoritarian and collectivist "religion". They become to embody the tyranny they claim they hate.
5:04 it’s called galactorrhea. Biologically born males CAN lactate as both sexes have mammary glands. Granted it is not common, and a lot of times if a cis male begins to lactate, it could be due to an underlying medical condition or medication, but not always. Another fun fact, male (cis) lactation is no different from the milk produced by cis females
Thank you for calling out the bullshit that Jesus said that was actually harmful. Too many people who are non religious say things like "Jesus was so woke, if Christians acted like him the world would be a better place" ignoring the plethora of things that Jesus said that was horribly destructive to people, such as; cut off your hand and gouge out your eye if it causes you to sin, if you aren't with me you're against me, he called a woman a dog, he said marriage is between a man and woman, how hell is a place of weeping an gnashing of teeth, go out and convert the whole world, etc, etc. I'd love to see more atheists/agnostics point out the garbage that came straight from Jesus.
Thank you so much for pointing out how ridiculous it is to single out homosexuality among the other really specific things listed in Leviticus as the main things Christians like to target. Nobody is trying to stop people from eating pork or shrimp, mixing fabrics in clothing, and like you said, even divorce is mentioned as one of the banned practices in Leviticus and not a soul would like to stop other people from doing it. I'm gay and both my husband and I are extremely grateful for being legally married and it has been beneficial for us for at least a few reasons and has hurt no one. We literally want nothing special. Just the exact same rights as any straight couple. Christians should also be aware that the true "traditional" marriage looks almost nothing like the marriages that are popular today. Originally, marriages were arranged, for one thing. I don't see any Christians fighting for that. They literally are just trying to oppress people who they disagree with by using antiquated text and its disgusting. Like, I am so happy for people doing what they want to do, including Christians practicing their religion, but it should never be the case that people use their religion to justify hurting someone else.
My pleasure and thank you for sharing all this. It seems so very simple to see but the haze of religion is strong. Also love your point about not following biblical marriages either. You
@@gene8675Nobody is forbidding YOU from marrying whoever you want. You can still go to muh church and get blessed by a guy in a dress and spend your wedding night shaking your fist at gay people. It's just that there's a secular institution allowing gay people to be together as well, which is optional to do. It is a gain to others, at no loss to you. So as the acronym says, S the F U.
@@gene8675 That is ridiculous. Why do Christians who want everybody to do what they say so ignorant of history? Marriage has existed outside of the Abrahamic religions, because more than half the world doesn't believe them and never did, they had and have their own practices. Marriage existed before Abrahamic religions, we have archaeological evidence of that. And the word "marriage" comes from the Latin "maritatus," -- you know, from the Roman Empire that had lots of gods and lots of religions (and by the way were fine with same-sex alliances).
Some highlights from the comments on the original video: "We would do better to overturn this idea that “rights” are a real thing any ways." "If guys can marry each other, fathers and mothers should be able to marry their children for tax reasons." "True Christian's stand up for Truth. May God defend Marriage, hoping society repents for perverting something so pure and Holy" "Wow. “Legalizing male breastfeeding.” That’s the best one I’ve ever heard." These idiots are doing everyone a favor. Their detachment from reality is making moderates cringe. Eventually the people who believe in god, but cannot abide by this blatant hatred will decide that they cannot condone this kind of stupidity and will fall away. Also, these assholes will eventually die. I bet their grandchildren will not have the same ignorant biases. Incremental improvements result in profound changes, generationally.
The Catholic faith will never die. Throughout history people have tried to squash the light of the faith but it never dies hence all the martyrs. The Church is the pillar of truth.
@@juliabriggs1141 It doesn't have to die. All that matters is that the membership rolls dwindle until those of you who choose to live in the faith can do so WITHOUT having the political power, social clout, or ability to foist your dipshittery onto the rest of us. There will be peace when you are culturally MUTE. And that insignificance is closer than you think.
@@silphiumforever The Church will never be mute. Throughout history people have tried to silence and destroy the Church but have never succeeded. During pagan times Christians were bold in sharing their faith and many were subsequently killed for it, majority of the first popes were martyrs. The Church will continue to evangelize and teach as Christ commanded and nothing will stop this. The high demand for traditional Latin Masses shows that the faith is not insignificant, it is going through tough times but will inevitably come out stronger as it has done so before.
@@juliabriggs1141 I think you aren't quite taking my point. True, the church will never be mute. And as the less faithful fall away the median faith *does* tend to increase among *those who are left,* but a smaller voting block isn't as good as a larger one, is it now? Your evangelism doesn't have the same success rate as the tip of a spear, does it? It's not the Middle Ages anymore after all. And you may fetishize the martyrdom of those venerable ancients, but you may have a harder time convincing your target audience (of breeding age) here in the US; where the whole concept of martyrdom has degraded to having to hear a contrary opinion and then whining about it in the comment sections. You may have better luck romanticizing the quiet dignity of the martyr on the continents where the faith *is* growing (the value of life being demonstrably less where the number of genocides is the highest, obviously). But I do admire your unwavering positivity and determination. Soldiering for Christ. Never let the facts get in the way of a good delusion. And please do proselytize far and wide, in states and counties where your numbers are the smallest. Preach the Word straight from the book. It is already too late here, where you live, if the polling numbers are to be believed. Declines decade by decade. It. is. already. too. late.
Seriously. The “family-friendly” defenders of biblical marriage that want to make gay marriage illegal are not trying to make divorce illegal. How can that be?
I didn’t realize that interracial marriage is impossible, after all such marriages used to be illegal in the United States. Interracial marriage (between blacks and all other races) has only been fully allowed among Mormons since 1979.
Thank you for this video. I grew up in the church, teaching Sunday school, being a camp counselor, and I did it. As a gay man in 2013, living in a secular country, I am exhausted with all of the religious rights demands being put into law to restrict the freedoms of my community. There are roughly 10,000 versions of Christianity and over 500 versions of the Bible but still, the far right claim they know the one singular version. The idea of their version being the right version to control our country is the only idea they have, and the LGBTQ community, women, and POC are in their sights, all to different degrees. Knowing that if I try to engage with these folks, I'm the one called "intolerant," it's become clear that trying to reason with them is impossible and exhausting. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for this video.
My pleasure! Thanks for your context and adding in here. Its great to see this side more clearly. Love your examples and yes the frustration and hypocrisy of being the one called intolerant is enough to make me explode.
I like how he’s trying to say marriage is from the bible marriage doesn’t fit into the constraints of Christianity or religion it’s a much older thing than that in all cultures
I have to say, that I am very glad that the church does not have the right to impose it's definitions of social contracts onto everyone. The apologists play so fast and loose with definitions of words, in arguing for, or rationalizing the bible claims, that I see no reason to take this claim about the definition of marriage as anything more than laughable. The concept of marriage has shifted in different ways over the years, in society, and in the bible. And even if the bible were consistent and specific, we aren't living in a theocracy to insist on biblical law.
Xtians: OT verses we like are laws - from god - to be obeyed forever. Same Xtians: OT verses we don't like were overturned and do not apply now ... because "Then Jesus came ..." LOL
It's funny that it's a Catholic priest saying it. I've met several ex-seminarists and even dated one and predictably seminars are full of gay young men who seek priesthood because they're not gonna marry anyway, and predictably having a bunch of sexually repressed gay men all living together isn't really conductive to them keeping their vows of celibacy. Even I considered it, but thankfully my college years were a process of both deconversion and self acceptance.
It amazes me that people devoted to helping people and being morally and ethically correct when given a choice between tradition and compassion, so often chose tradition! Priests are people who meditate on goodness and purport to be in tune with spiritual forces. Yet simple compassion eludes them! No birth control, no abortions, no gay love!! Perhaps for someone willing to commit to life long celibacy, sex was never a strong hormonal drive for them (a- or demi-sexual?). That would explain the lack of empathy for the people who experience very strong sexual urges. How else can you explain men who see sex as only a procreative function and condemn all other sexual expression?
God, how is the marriage of two adults of the same sex who love each other and consent to be bound in matrimony any worse than the marriage of a man to a child-sex-slave-bride from the nation he has just slaughtered?
"You could call it something else, but it can't be marriage, because marriage exists the way it does in the culture." Wow, it's almost like cultures shift and change or something.
Fortunately the bible isn't where English comes from and is not a definitive source for what is or isn't factual or possible either. The tiny little world people like that must be stuck in within their own heads is surely a sad place, so absolutely ignorant and scared of learning about the world around them.
And religions also evolve in time. Even Paul's letters in the new testament are in good part dedicated to yelling at new christians who are not believing the right way, allegedly diverging from Jesus' teachings only decades after his death.
Thank you for this episode. I accepted my personal schism with SDA'ism and superstitions, after a long terrifying inner conflict, way back in 2001. I am still so happy to be free of that nonsense. All of it.
Thank you I used to be a Christian now I'm a bisexual and queen in training you helped me deconstructed my faith and see how ridiculous it is and I'm not afraid of going to hell thank you again ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Fantastic, articulate reasoning as to why marriage should be available to all. When the same sex marriage debate was raging several years ago here in Canada, I was astounded at hearing smart people say very stupid things to argue against marriage equality.
What is this man even on about? Is he that bothered by the usage of the name 'marriage'? And him hanging on to the word 'can' like it CAN'T be marriage, like that ever stopped words from changing and whatnot.
I was raised with the notion that homosexuality was wrong/funny/odd. Luckily, I was never raised that it was something to be hated. But then I wasn't gay. I know one aunt never married and lived with her longtime female "friend" her entire life. Yeah, she was never ostracized from the family, but the subject of her home life was never brought up or discussed either. It just was. So it was easy for me to adjust my mindset as I matured. It wasn't wrong at all. What business was it of mine what other people did? If it wasn't illegal and not coerced, it was nothing I should be worried about. I knew gay was not "catching" or any other ridiculous claims, and it was part of my decision to leave my faith as many other things were also deviating from what I was brought up with - women are and should be equal under the law to men. I knew that in grade school. We were not inferior or meant to be submissive. Where were the divine female in the pantheon of father/son/holy ghost? Divorce was a freedom for women. Control over our fertility was another freedom for women, etc., etc. So after a while, I realized the monotheistic faiths didn't jibe with my life anymore.
He is actually wrong. It's not impossible for men to lactate. It usually requires takes certain hormones, although there are natural causesas well. All the required parts are already there to get the process started, you just need to activate them.
I'm a 64 y.o. gay man. I will never understand anyone regardless of their sexual orientation would denigrate themselves by asking government for permission to enter into a private union. Contract Law is all anyone needs to protect yourselves and your property. I have had two long term relationships that ended in the death of my partners. Because we had laid out a legal set of contracts, I had no problems with anythig, including making end of life decisions. Screw the government and take care of your needs yourselves.
Alright so first time I felt the need to comment on the video before it's finished because, while it's not to the same extent, men can lactate. Cis men can lactate with a very slight hormonal change in their bodies. This is a, maybe not common, but certainly documented thing.
Catholics are focused on marriages leading to many, many babies and this is one of the reasons why this guy is dead set against gay marriage…it hasn’t dawned on them that lesbian couples can have more children than het ones. I actually think this guy is anti-divorce as well.
@@MindShift-Brandon If he could, he would. I heard more against being child free at Catholic school than actual homophobia. Not because of any tolerance, but because homosexuality was already established as “wrong”, but there was a need to decry people who’d rather not have kids.
The few times that the Bible talks about marriage are interesting examples that Christians usually ignore. Solomon had many many wives, and God himself reprimanded Solomon for his wives not being Jewish and continuing to worship their own gods. Solomon didn't change a thing. David literally divorced his first wife, nearly starting a war, so that he could take a woman who was married to another man, killing him in the process to do so. This is the man after God's own heart. Another story has a man working for 7 years to get a woman that he wanted, was tricked into marrying her sister, then being given the woman he wanted in the end. So he had two wives, both of whom, he bought. Marriage contracts were about the transfer of property. Women were chattel property. Children were chattel property. It was about property. Not about love. Although lust was the driver in the Bible stories. And the mention of love in marriage... Not so much. ❤❤ That could be why the Bible actually did spell out that men should love their wives.
@@MindShift-Brandon I feel like the girl in Footloose when her bf asked how she knew stuff in the Bible. In my case, it was growing up being rewarded for memorizing Bible stories. 😁
Good afternoon and may the peace of the Lord be in this thread! About your commentary, it has many wrong assumptions and lacks more context. Indeed, The Lord said that man would leave his parents and be with his woman and become one flesh. So when did God allow polygamy as for the case of Solomon, David and Jacob (which is the third man you described)? The answer is simple: never. He never allowed polygamy, only monogamy. So God, unhappy with with what David and Solomon did, greatly punished them, having David being persecuted by sword and having Solomon`s kingdom facing powerful enemies. You want to know what marriage is like to the Lord? The relation between husband and wife? It is like Jesus was with His church and how He still is today. He, God, was always there to help His church and protected it, nursed it, supplied it with all that it needed and loved His people so much that He gave His life to save them. He never laid a hand to strike His disciples, for what He wanted was their hearts, as He that was above them, made Himself their servant, even washing their feet and guiding them to a better life. Marriage is an alliance made of love, and love is the Lord.
@@juanranger4214 I was simply giving examples that are in the Bible. A summary as it were. You seem to be the one making assumptions about what God meant and what God did, etc. Nowhere in the Bible is polygamy, prohibited or restricted. All of the patriarchs had multiple wives or and or concubines. None was punished by God for having multiple wives or concubines. The wives and concubines had nothing to say about it. They were chattel property.
I have come to find David disgusting after reading about him without my Christian blinders on. He rapes a women he rapes a women he watched bath, (there’s no consent when you’re summoned) murders her husband and God punishes him by killing her child. How was David punished? Off topic but completely horrendous.
It's also possible for men to lactate. Lactating in a man can be a sign of an underlying medical condition that shouldn't be ignored. Conditions like hormonal imbalance, tumors, or hypothyroidism can cause lactation in men. Other causes of male lactation can include medications, supplements, or NIPPLE STIMULATION.
Thank you for exploring this. I was fortunate to have a mother that was disillusioned with Christianity and also did not mind that I was a lesbian. Lucky for me an older sister had already given her grandchildren so I did not need to feel bad about that. Unfortunately that same sister decided to become Catholic and that justified her hating me because I was gay. She over time influenced my other two siblings to hate me as well for that reason, one of them claiming to be Christian. My dad did not care for Christianity either once stating that if were to be anything maybe Buddhist . I don't know where my two sisters got the Christian bug but they have tried to destroy my life as now they have God on their side? (Both my parents are gone so I get no help from them)
I mean... christianity can be taught in two different ways, either with the perspective of accepting that everyone is a child of god and that whatever happens is between the individual and god (no judging) OR it can be taught as being superior and it's the world versus them (lots of judging) which is a very real trap for christians if one does not guard themself properly. The idea that lgbtq+ people are seen as sick people who need healing (not using the word 'saving' on purpose), will also not help your case I'm afraid. Because you are sick and under the control of demonic powers. (according to some believers... *sigh*) I feel bad for you because you're hated for who you are (without harming anyone) and I feel bad for your sisters, since they have not learned to love but to hate. But I'd like to say that it does not matter what they think, they are wrong for hating someone who just wants to accept herself the way nature made her. And if there is a god, it's god's responsibility entirely for setting us up like this, so there's that.
This one surely got a lot of "interesting" comments and I knew it would. Of course some are to be expected, unfortunately, but some are sickening. Thank you for following through anyway. Wow. For anyone being against equality, respect, empathy and humanity, I'm so happy not to be in the wrong group. Keep moving forward in the correct direction, that's the best thing any of us can do.
Interesting side note. The two clergy in the video are Eastern Orthodox. Orthodoxy teaches that you can divorce and remarry up to three times. That's an actual teaching of theirs. The Catholic Church at least officially teaches against divorce in keeping with the teachings of Jesus. Though that teaching is of course problematic in itself.
Don’t normally comment, I’ve found your content really enlightening. Would love to see more deconstructions on LGBT stuff. Particularly a video I came across, Jackie Hill Perry, a lesbian having converted to Christian. Would love to hear your commentary on her stance
Brandon: would you please add a pop shield (or maybe EQ?) to your mic? Me and my woofer would appreciate it. And also, keep up the great work! I have the feeling that your channel is sure to grow quickly as soon as it gets a bit more exposure.
@@MindShift-Brandon Thanks for working on this silly side topic. One more suggestion for you: it helps to move the mic out of the air stream in front of your mouth so that the high-pressure spurts don't hit it. I see a lot of youtubers choosing to put the mic off to the side, but you could also try putting it lower down. On an unrelated topic, you just got a shout-out from Prophet of Zod, so here's hoping your subscriber count is about to soar!
You nailed this one, Brandon. Having been a college student in the early '70s I watched and sometimes took part in demonstrations in support of human rights for all people. I will always feel pride and admiration for those who expose and deride those who propound bigoted ideology. It's very hard (painful) to watch how propaganda has been used in the last few decades to effectively radicalize an entire generation of what I believe would otherwise be good compassionate people. I worked in theater and was friends with a good many gay couples. At one point I tried to list the fundamental differences between the marriages of straight couples I knew and those of the gay couples who were in long term monogamous partnerships. I found that the differences, as compared to the similarities, were very few. What is heartbreaking to me is that such a significant number of people actually accept and believe the stereotypes of formerly (and currently) marginalized groups. The zeitgeist around the social media phenomenon (if I may) seems to have had a few disturbing effects. First it makes access to manipulative disinformation, for those who are the targets, so much easier. Second it seems to encourage folks, who might have previously been soft spoken and who didn't feel comfortable speaking to groups, to "find their voice" and "speak their truth". Now I don't think these things are necessarily harmful in and of themselves (except the disinformation part) but often people who want to be more assertive but haven't done the requisite study and reflection to have made informed opinions can glom on to some pretty frightening stuff. That's one reason I believe influencers like Joe Rogan appeal to such large demographics.
thank you so much for sharing. Love your insight here and thoughts. If it wasn't so sad and harmful, it would almost all be an interesting experiment in human and group psychology, but
Adam and Eve were not married. Of course they weren’t real either but, they weren’t married. Marriage is just a contracted tradition. If my pet could sign his name I could marry him. The goal of religion is to repress anyone who doesn’t conform to their manmade rules.
I agree with everything you say. I'd like to add though, that words change or DO NOT change based on peoples desires. The argument that words change is a bad one on that basis, the people who don't want to change a definition have reasons for that, and not engaging them in that level won't do anything. Ya words change, but it's not an argument against someone who is already arguing for an opinion. Dude doesn't think marriage should be defined this way, as much as he doesn't believe it IS this. You'd need to give the actual reasons, not just cuz words change, cuz they stay the same too.
Yeah, gay people need the right to get married for all kinds of reasons, including being able to have their love be recognized and protected, and these guys are talking about semantics. They don't care about the sufferings of people who are discriminated against, sometimes to the point of death. They only care about making sure their definition of marriage is protected.
The priest stands on the Catholic church's position that marriage's sole purpose is for procreation...and a gay couple cannot do that. That's where he pulls the term "impossible" from. And I know that I still struggle with accepting homosexuality exclusively because of the Christian indoctrination I was subjected to across about 45 years as a believer. Even though I no longer believe, that indoctrination left permanent attitudes that I still fight to change within myself.
My niece has a wife and each have had a baby and they are the most beautiful family. The kids are just amazing because they have the best moms ever and it has NOTHING to do with their sexuality. It is they are just stable and successful moms and love their kids more than anything and are raising them secular and as critical thinkers. Christians need to back off and mind their own business, period!!
Im sure they impregnated each other . Homosexuals need to back off and keep their sexual desires private. I am positive no one prevented your homosexual nieces from having kids, whatever means they used. Stop imposing your homosexual agenda.
Children deserve their biological parents to be present and together. The real world is messy and sometimes it doesn’t work out, but yes, it is obviously true that children deserve to have their mother and father
Hi there Brandon, I'd like to talk to you about my deconstruction journey, and It's been real tough, and I was wondering if you and I could schedule a talk about it
Great work Brandon. One worrying comment based on something mentioned near end of video is, depending who is elected as next president, no fault divorce could be abolished during the that administration. The same i am sure would love to ban all divorce.
Yes i hope i was clear i am not actually for divorce banning. Its just the hypocrisy so far by many christians to hold on to that right despite jesus clear teaching. Its a scary prospect for sure.
@@MindShift-Brandon hehe don't worry you were clear. I was more commenting that there are people who protest less directly to outlaw divorce and sadly parts of the government are listening to them. I am with you on not having the morality of a nation determined by a large minority group.
@@MindShift-Brandon Do you know the Catholic stance on divorce? A quote from the book My Catholic Faith “Not even to avert the most serious calamities can the Church sanction divorce.”
Hey all. I know this is a bit of a controversial one, but it was one of the biggest worldview shifts I had during my own deconversion and I am very passionate about it.
Controversial? That people still may think so tells us how needed this video is and how right you are in making it.
It’s one of the most important shifts after deconstruction. There’s very few ex Christian’s that still hold on to the same view after leaving. There are always new people leaving and always new people that need to hear this! Thank you!
Yeah thank God we have gay rights so now kids are being brainwashed and chemically and physically castrated.
Before you shout "slippery slope fallacy", just shut up, it's blatantly obvious one led to the other.
have you not seen the agenda behind that movement... they are not really coming after the church or religious people ... but the kids ... they are using the same thing that you are using ... and that is the power of suggestion ... i don't know if you have kids and i don''t know that if you are a transgender ... but to try to convince a child that his biological nature has no meaning to him and only his feeling maters is indoctrination to believe a lie ... it is wrong to teach a child in this case to indoctrinate a child that transgender is normal ... what will be the future then ... should we teach a child that pedophilia is normal? ... if they think that they are transgender because they feel like they are of the opposite sex then they have been indoctrinated to believe that ... find out who is behind the depopulation program and you will find the transgender agenda in there files ... what the transgender want to do behind close doors is up to them but to indoctrinate a child to become like them is violating the freedom of the child ... the freedom they want is to destroy other people freedom and in this case the freedom of the kids
@@JohnM-cd4ou It's science!
The first thing I'd say to him is that if something is genuinely impossible, opposing it is unnecessary. Laws against it are unnecessary. Arguments against it are unnecessary. Just leave the issue alone and allow people to try -- they will fail because it is impossible.
The second thing I'd say is that his statement "marriage exists the way it does in the culture" works against him. Yes, marriage exists the way it does in the culture. And that way includes gay marriages. As evidenced by all the gay marriages existing all over the place in our culture.
Two perfect points. Thanks for watching.
He's not opposing marriage, he's opposing the Orwellian redefinition of marriage that threatens institution of marriage.
@@Lerian_V Gay marriage underwent prolonged and explicit public deliberation. And it merely removes previous barriers, imposing fewer restrictions on the people. And no threat to marriage has been found, save for conservatives threatening to get rid of gay marriage.
All you're doing is repeating propaganda and engaging in doublethink.
Bible definition of marriage: one man, one woman. One man, many women. One man, spoils-of-war child bride. One man, one woman, many concubines. One man, many women, many concubines.
@@SilverSixpence888 The archbishop probably goes by Jesus' definition, not Solomon's personal practices.
I used to believe homosexuality was wrong because I grew up believing that and religion drilled that in my head. But even before I left religion I felt conflicted. Why is it wrong? I couldn't figure that out.
I remember watching a show about Neil Patrick Harris and his husband and children and thinking, "they are two people that live each other and their kids just living their life." I also found myself watching shows that featured transsexuals and being intrigued, but not upset.
I finally realized it didn't bother me because it shouldn't bother me. People loving other people should not upset anyone. People dressing the way they want or changing body parts should not upset anyone. It doesn't affect me at all. Plus, love is something we need MORE of.
Thankfully, my rational mind took over and many of my preconceived thoughts were stripped away.
This is just one reason I left religion.
Yes! I love this. I was in a similar boat
Read about a woman who took her young son to help a lesbian friend get the reception hall ready for her wedding ceremony. On the way home, she asked him what he thought of the two women marrying. She said he thought for a while, then said, "If they love each other, they should get married."
Reasonably stupid. Lmao
@@druidriley3163 🥱🥱🥱 quite ignorant.
> has no knowledge of what marriage is.
> believes the two love each other
> therefore they can get married??
🚫
@@RINSHOUJO People do get married for love. Did you have a point?
It was my coming out and accepting myself as being gay, and not being oppressed by demons, that catapulted me into my journey of deconstructing my faith 5 years ago. Thank you for this video.
My pleasure! So glad you made it out and get to he who you are!
I can relate so much to this. Sending you love and light my friend. I had such hatred of myself. It's unlike anything else. Hating a part of you that you cannot change.
I'm a straight woman, but grew up questioning my femininity.
I had years of torment because of a bodily difference that made me feel less feminine combined with not mentally being a "girly girl" in some ways. For some reason, I had hairy arms and legs and then after giving birth I started growing a goatee... with coarse thick hair. I shave it, put make up over it and no one knew, not even my mom. I thought something was horribly wrong and felt like a freak.
Years later, I told my mom and a couple of other people. They were so kind. It still didn't alleviate my depression over that or other bodily flaws. I couldn't reconcile the fact that I was attracted to men, but had a hair pattern that many men would find disgusting or freakish.
Couple that with the fact that while I'm "feminine " in many ways, I'm also not in many ways. I don't like wearing dresses. I don't wear heels even though I'm very short. I only have one purse at a time and it's cheap. I don't like having my nails long at all.
So, I grew up confused and hated myself. Finally I realized I am not broken- I just don't fit into those molds completely.
I say this to say- accepting people for who they are and whom they love is a beautiful thing. Plus, this will help others who are "different" not feel so freakish.
@@cindyforish8081Do you have an intersex condition? If so you might like to look into an organisation called ISNA.
I was raised Catholic and fortunately I grew up in a relatively progressive parish, so I didn't get to hear all the fire and brimstone anti-gate. When I came out to myself, I couldn't find any reason to justify what was wrong with the way I was feeling, so I ignored what the church "officially" said. That's scary part is, when I was coming up right with Pope John Paul II was elected. So, I had to deal with all his 🐂💩, but as I said the priests at my church we're open-minded and understanding. Did also let me to just drift away from Catholicism and after a brief attempt to return not look back.
*Fun fact: Men CAN lactate!* It usually has to do with hormonal imbalance, but as they have all the necessary parts required for lactation it CAN happen. The reason they have all the necessary parts but don't usually lactate is that a) all humans start out as female, so the parts for lactation develop in everyone (hence why men have nipples when nipples are for feeding babies) and b) Men don't usually lactate because they don't typically produce enough prolactin to lactate.
Yea whatever doesn't make a man a woman mmmk? And sorry the chromosomes end up changing to male REALLY early so no lactating isn't gonna happen. And who needs it to be exactly?
99% of won't and can't care for babies ....dad or not.
Yea whatever doesn't make a man a woman mmmk? And sorry the chromosomes end up changing to male REALLY early so no lactating isn't gonna happen. And who needs it to be exactly?
99% of these "men"!
won't and can't care for babies ....dad or not.
And breastmilk usually is produced after giving birth or in some cases during pregnancy. Since men can't do that they're not likely to produce breastmilk just like women when they're never give birth or never are pregnant. You have to be at least pregnant first.
Has anyone tried that?-
@@libera7161 not really, theres records of tribes where men stimulate the chest area/nips and after 6 months to a year they can lactate and help feed their children
All the rights and privileges come by means of the government, tax rules, visitation rights, inheritance guidelines, and a variety of other things. The Church can "bless" a marriage and an ordained person may conduct the ceremony, but a Church Ceremonies are not required. Furthermore, in our society it is the Government that issues the license to legalize the marital contract. None of this requires a Church.
Exactly
The unbearable irony of a life long celibate interjecting on marriage. It burns.
Hopefully celibate…
How is it irony? Is he going around affirming dr*g queen dancing in front of children? That's more likely coming to come from a member of the alphabet community than his community.
Orthodox priests are allowed to be married prior to ordination, fyi 😉. These are two Eastern Orthodox clergy in the video. Not sure if they're married or not, and it doesn't change the invalidity of their arguments. Just saying.
What exactly a obvious closet homo (and pretending to be celibate) knows about marriage/str8 sex anyway?!?
A person who has never killed can't talk about the ethics of killing without there being burning irony?
Or perhaps your reasoning is subjective.
I absolutely love your channel. I struggled for years hating myself for being gay. I was told it was an abomination. I knew it from 8 years old. I prayed everyday to not be gay. Not have that deisre, just go one day without a gay thought. It was absolutely miserable. Drove me into addiction. I am now agnostic/atheist and your channel has helped me so much. Thank you so much
I am so very pleased to hear that. Thanks so much for sharing. Appreciate you being here!
And this is what these religious fanatics do not understand. The amount of suffering a certain ideology can cause. When the ideology becomes more important than the very thing the ideology is supposed to support.
Fact: lgbtq+ people exist, have always existed and will remain to exist
Fact: straight people exist
Fact: god can not be proven to exist
Fact: it can not be proven that it's the work of demons or wrong upbringing that determines genderidentity or sexual preferences
Fact: religion will not reduce the presence of lgbtq or straight people
Fact: supressing something does not remove it's existence
Fact: lgbtq + straight people are all humans who want to be happy
Perhaps it's better to first accept what is fact and see how perhaps the ideology was misinterpreted. Only if it would just be so there would be less needless suffering...
So people like you would not have to hate themselves for years for no reason at all.
I'm glad you're in a better place
“Marriage exists the way it is in the culture.”
Culture isn’t static, it changes with the times and with the needs of the people. Religion used to be a big part of culture, but we’re watching it fade, just like we watched gay marriage become part of our culture.
I heard the hypothesis that the reason why gay marriage was not allowed in biblical times was because the Jewish people were few in number and needed to expand their numbers by whatever means possible
culture changes
@@littleredpony6868I heard that too.
@@littleredpony6868 Since polygamy and concubinage was the norm for men who could afford it, that makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense is the religious people who still believe, somehow, that the world is underpopulated with human beings.
Marriage in a secular society is a contract, not a sacrament.
I have two children and 'quite' consciously never married. And very lucky that I live in a secular country where this gives no disadvantages at all.
Marriage in a religious society is a contract too they just pretend it’s not. Divorce, cheating and domestic abuse occurs at exactly the same rate between religious and non religious people. Don’t buy into religious framing
@@MrCanis4 in which country do they live?
@@MrCanis4 No, you are unlucky.
I believe society is composed of contracts. marriage is a contract between two people. It's actually a religious thing and shouldn't be moderated by government. Does that mean child marriage is okay, no, and the real limiter of that is whether sexual action is taken in their marriage; that should require the state to punish at that point - regardless of the religious practice. I think it shouldn't even be an item at a national level.
Also, a secular society is actually a kind of contradiction. What is meant by it implies a selective approval of a unifying belief. It moves the goal posts and anymore is a religion.
Can there be 'secular' yes. 1+1 is arguably an example.
When I was a Christian, I was taught the same thing that priest(?) was saying and I would argue back that since they aren't Christians, why should our laws hold to the Christian standards? And the response that I would get back would usually be something like, "because if we let them live in sin it will ruin the morale fabric of our society and our country will stop being a Christian Nation and thus be destroyed!" I'm so glad I'm not a Christian anymore and I genuinely don't believe that me living my own life will destroy the country.
Yes! I remember the same arguments. Its just wholly disgusting.
But you put other people (drug dealers, child molesters, tax cheats, etc) who are living their own lives in prison. How's that for a coherent, non-hypocritical position to hold?
Yup, I also used to use similar arguments but in a different setting. When people would complain that the Church should allow for gay marriages I'd say that it's up to the Church to make that decision and that if you did not like it, you should just not marry for the Church. If one is not a chirstian, they can not set the rules the Church ought to make. You can however dissagree with the rules at any time and question them into oblivion.
I too believed these twisted religious moral arguments towards gay marriage. I think it's BS now. Marriage is subjective to the culture and society, not to what one particular religion says it is.
Also, a Christian Nation does not align with Jesus' teachings anyway.
@willchristie2650 No I wasn't talking about 2 adult men who love each other. I love my father and my brothers. There's nothing wrong with loving anyone. In fact, it's a bad thing not to love. And I'm here because unlike fundamentalists and atheists, I don't live in an echo chamber of my own belief system. I want my beliefs to be challenged while I'm challenging opposing views.
@miaomiaochan They challenged the incoherent worldview they had, only to end up with another incoherent worldview.
Who gave the church exclusive rights over the concept of marriage? No-one
ha, yet they tried to do it themselves, doesn't work like that guys!
God did. God gave the Church alone authority over the sacraments and holy matters.
@@juliabriggs1141 god is fiction so that throws that idea out!
@@juliabriggs1141We all don't believe in the same god, though. We don't all even believe in God.🤷
Liberal: Power gives meaning to marriage
Conservative: God has outlined marriage
Im gay...Im MARRIED. Been Married for 5 years......Works GREAT for the 2 of us!!!...But Religion is the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet.
Good for you my friend:) and I agree 100% it’s caused so much bullshit in the world.
Your community still has the highest self destruction in the most friendly alphabet letter countries as this study shows -> November 2019, published in the Journal of Epidemiology & Community Health.
and your point is?????????@@computationaltheist7267
More young people self-destruct than older people. And more men do then woman. By this logic all young men should have their rights taken away…? This is a nothing point. Maybe it has to do with how society has been treating these people for
@@computationaltheist7267That's a moot point. A gay guy said he's living in a happy marriage and you said "but other gay people commit suicide more" - so what? Imagine that a guy says he loves Italian food and you told him "okay, but other people who love Italian food include mafia members!"
Obviously, it's a non-sequitur and a non-argument.
Thanks!
Marriage as a concept existed before the Bible and outside of both the Bible and religion. Christianity doesn’t get to claim the word, it’s not theirs.
100%
Neither is it yours 🥱
@@moon_0207 If nobody can claim it, then what is the standard? If there is no standard for marriage, then it can become anything.
Re: it will mold into whatever the era says marriage is.
Your point is moot
The pastors’ moral authority is exclusively over their parishioners. The people who walk past the door owe no obedience to these people. They have no right to try to force their values on others, who choose not to go to their churches. We don’t live in ancient Israel or Christian Roman Empire. Religious moral are an option, not an obligation. So these people must withdraw to their temples and leave the rest of us alone.
Perfectly said!
agree
Everybody forces their belief system on others. You just forced Christians and Muslims to accept your definition of "marriage".
You talk as though the regime is an oppressive one like Albania, and free exercise is not allowed. Also, arguments you dislike are not necessarily religious. There is more than one view of human flourishing. People who support same sex coupling and intimacy also wrote in favor of marriage remaining one man one woman.
Do you hold that you have no right to force your values on others through the law? Laws against theft and murder enforce values.
@@nics4967how many times must this be explained... Marriage is an act of mutual consent. It is decided by the two people getting married and others have no say in it. Murder, theft, and such are acts of aggression and they trample on consent, which is why they are punished by the law. It is a false equivalency to draw a simile between the two.
Religious people can apply whatever custom they want over those who consent to it, period.
The rest of us are not obligated to comply. If we were, that would be an act of aggression, just like murder or theft.
Many religious folks act like someone's sexual orientation is just a switch that they can flick on and off whenever they like. "You're choosing to be gay."🤦
It is just so ignorant, and its religion that has kept people there.
Kind of like the way they treat belief, for that matter. As if atheists "choose" not to believe in their cosmic Sky Wizard.
Or they day its "demons" and they just need prayer to cure it/ push demons out.
Religious people don't see prayer 7s just a way to make them self's feel good about them self's as if it will do something
My friend legitally texted my friend randomly at night in our GC n said sum that basically said "bruv you gotta turn your gay off cuz then I'm a half to drop a friend for Jesus"
N he rlly said "yh am trying" n I was wtf?!😭
The individual in question is Archbishop Salvatore J. Cordileone, who ironically enough is the archbishop of the San Francisco archdiocese. He has a long history of opposing LGBT rights, going back to his days as which makes it interesting that the church decided to make him the archbishop of the gayest city in the United States. It's important to note that he was a Benedict XVI appointee, and was not appointed by Francis. Two months before his installation as Archbishop of San Francisco, Cordileone was picked up for drunk driving in Oakland. A little advance celebration of his new status, perhaps. And really, who of us is without sin? Cordileone has long had a reputation of opposing contraception, abortion, gay marriage, LGBT rights and indeed, he seems to think that there is no aspect of a person's sex life that is under the jurisdiction of the Church. He once proposed at a bishop's conference that it be considered a grave matter to even think about contraception. I expect that he, like many in the Catholic and old-line American Protestant churches, can read the numbers. The churches are declining in membership and influence - leaving aside the crazed evangelicals influence on the Republican party - and I sometimes think the guys like Cordileone think that the only way to right the listing ship is to hew to the most conservative of the Church's positions, and retreat from the liberalization of its theology. He is a smug little weasel.
thank you so much for taking the time to add in all this context. I usually do more research on the individuals so i can speak to them a bit more, but for a Saturday short, i did not. That is all so interesting and really adds color to how awful his position is. Thank you!
A Priest at any level would be one of the last people on earth I'd go to for advice about family or dating relationships. They are not married and must reject woman and men. I can't think of someone less qualified to advise. He has zero personal experience.
I suspect there are some issues in their past that caused them to be priest in the first place.
A preacher is not much better as he, like the Priest, has built his entire life around a book of fiction. His constant study of that propaganda all the while believing it real leads me to question his ablity to make proper decisions and use proper judgement.
"He once proposed at a bishop's conference that it be considered a grave matter to even think about contraception."
That has been the standard for Catholicism for...ever. Catholics are allowed to use mathematics but not physics or chemistry.
Against LGBTQ+ rights not because it is "wrong", but because it is bad for the religion. It's about "selfpreservation" and in doing so denying very real people their own existence.
The primary reason for marriage is to legitimize the passing of property on to one's spouse and offspring.
One of the primary reasons for prohibiting priests to marry is to prevent the passing of church property on to his spouse and offspring.
Economics, pure and simple.
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you covering this topic. I became a christian when I was 18, and spent 10 years as one... right through what should've been my developmental and "discovery" years. All the time begging god to "fix" me. It messed me up so badly, that even after I walked away I would spend many more years trying to sort myself out and figure out who and what I was. But pastors like that priest instilling their gross doctrine on their followers just continues to cause damage on so many young people today. It's painful.
Thank you for covering this tho.
I'm still going through all your videos one by one but I had to go back and revisit this one a 2nd time. :)
My pleasure man. Thanks for all the support and kind words.
Damn. My heart felt good just watching your face when this idiot said the thing about legalizing men breast feeding. I was married (not legally; became legal too late for us) to a noble, brave Austrian cop...whom I met in Catholic seminary in New Orleans (didn't know him well at all as he was a year ahead of me, but they told us on the same day that we could not return because we had checked "homosexual" on our original applications; he appeared in my "cell" an hour later and asked for my phone number; greatest man I ever knew). He died before we could be legal. I APPRECIATE YOU AND WHAT YOU SAY HERE! Another thing that made my father extraordinary is that in the 70s he backed me and literally threatened to kill any man who made me unhappy. That was talk, of course. I was his son and he loved me more than anything else.And, I have an identical twin who is not queer! Ha! Thanks for this, Brandon.
Love that your dad was so ahead of all this nonsense!
I’d much rather hear them be forthright and state “my beliefs deem it sinful” rather than bend over backwards to string together some specious thinly veiled religious case against gay marriage under the guise of an impartial secular argument.
Exactly. You believe in a religion that doesn't like it, thats just fine, ill even support your right to deny marriages of gays in your private place of worship, but to infringe past that is beyond ridiculous.
But then they wouldn’t be able to control society if they just said it was sinful… it would be on the same pedestal as masterbation or working on the sabbath.
Not to them, I was taught in my average evangelical KJV bibliolatry denomination that if all of society doesn’t follow along God/Yahweh/El/Jesus takes it out on the who Nation with allowing more minor and greater calamities. Bibliolatry and superstition need to be combated directly and they are petulant children.
Simple God created man for the woman and the woman for the man, that’s the natural use
Spiritually speaking Christ represents the Groom and the woman represents the church otherwise known as those who accept God
Thus man and woman symbolizes God and humanity united as one
Thus when you reject the natural use of man and woman your essentially saying i reject you God thus choosing sin over God
“For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
2 Corinthians 11:2 KJV
@@japexican007 If God actually existed I’d likely be more inclined to care
Somewhere in the world right now, a gay couple is getting married, and this “Christian” wasn’t even affected.
Funny thing is, he's wrong about male-born individuals not being able to breast feed. They still have breast tissue, and that breast tissue is still functional, it just needs stimulation training, possibly some supplements that some females take to help with lactation (because even some females have trouble producing milk; I would know, my mother was one of them and I almost starved as an infant because of it). So the second he produced his example of an impossible thing, I genuinely wanted to bust out laughing.
Looking at that priest with his pretentious smile makes my blood boil. Making a fuss about something completely harmless like gay marriage as if it is the greatest crime in the world. Especially knowing what horrible and massive abuse has taken place (and probably still is going on) in the Catholic church makes me want to throw up. What an unbelievable hypocrite. Thanks Brandon for sharing this.
its sin
In the 90s, there was American Gay Atheists. The directors of the organization both died of AIDS. When one died, the family took control of the body and buried it in a Catholic cemetery. His partner protested that the man had said publicly that he did not want to be buried religiously. The priest lied and said that the man had made a deathbed conversion.
My partner and I have been together for 42 years. We are not married and are on good terms with our families, but nevertheless, we have alternative legal provisions to prevent this kind of travesty from happening, which were not available in the 90s.
Yes. Great example. Thank you for sharing it.
Christians are great at claiming someone made a "deathbed" conversion. Many non believes recommend having a witness by you in the room when you are about to die to keep Christians from lying. That is a shame one has to plan for that.
@@MindShift-Brandon the aids example is very accurate description for your group.
Actually, AMAB people (including cis men) _can_ lactate under the right circumstances. Everyone has the right glands, it's just a matter of activating them with the right hormones. These can be given externally by e.g. prolactin supplements (the same as would be given to a new mother who has trouble producing milk) or sometimes simply letting a baby suck will induce production of the hormones by his own body.
For sure. I should have been more clear about the exceptions but my point was more to just grant the priest his example and then to show it still had no bearing on the argument. Thanks for the input!
Cope
@@Lucian09474who is coping lol? Do you not like the fact that cis men can lactate or something?
Yeah, funny how the effectiveness and importance of hormones is being underestimated by too many people.
His arguments are ridiculous. Marriage is a legal partnership, no church has nothing to do with it, technically. Churches don't own all good things they have stolen. No straight couple would lose any darn thing if gay marriage is legalized. Why behave as if was the opposite?
I remember when I first read about gay marriage as an 11 y.o. kid: an Australian singer made coming out and announced he married another guy, and said how much he'd used to hate himself because a church made him to. My first reaction was "Two guys married? It's possible? They are in love? Well, it's a good thing then". The second thought "what the hell is wrong with that church that hurt him??" I wasn't shocked by homosexuality though, just like no normal kid would.
I think a deep dive into the origins of marriage would be a great takedown topic since you can tackle the subject in a clear and thoughtful way. They really seem to think christians invented and own marriage traditions. Marriage today is a legal agreement between you, a partner and the state. It has nothing to do with anyone’s religious beliefs. Even before I knew I was bisexual, THIS is where I began to part ways with Christianity. I woke up one day and realized that if I had to choose between my gay friends and loving god, I would choose my friends. I knew I would rather go to hell. I was still very far from atheism but that was a huge revelation to contend with. It was the beginning of the end.
thats a very interesting point in time for you. I am always fascinated on seeing where peoples breaking points came in.
"I would Choose my (gay) friends ..... I'd rather go to hell"
Good choice. Who would want to be in heaven with a bunch of Fundamentalist Christian anyway. You'd kill yourself.
All the gay and bi people will be in hell, so you will be much happier there. I will be much happier there, because although straight, I can't bear the thought of an eternity with christians.
Excellent video! You know, one thing that stick out to me about his whole male lactation thing is that it betrays an underlying belief that marriage is only for procreation. Marriage ultimately is about love, and he obviously totally misses that.
yes, maybe next he will try to encourage laws that barren women cannot marry even heterosexually.
@@MindShift-Brandon haha! Yeah I wouldn’t put it past him.
@BookishChas
Marriage is about what the people involved in it want it to be. Sometimes it's about love, sometimes it's about something else. It's not up to anyone outside of that marriage to define what it is, or should be.
Obviously, a hateful priest with a commitment to never marry and who would callously force this same commitment to others would miss this crucial detail about marriage.
Really, the government should only do “mutual adult beneficiaries” for everyone who wants the legal status, then religions can marry whoever they want but marriage no longer has any legal status.
Just as aside, The Bible doesn't address childless couples as anything other than calamity.
If a couple doesn't have children, the man gets another wife so that she can make babies.
Or a SERVANT, they called them concubines.
In the legalistic term of the day, that was better than other servants but definitely not a wife.
Abraham literally abandoned his concubine in the desert with her child.
After his wife gave birth to his other son.
Yes great point!!
I doubt the concubine servant would get a choice in becoming the surrogate, especially if really a slave. Great biblical moral lessons you can learn.
She 100% doesnt. And in the example of Hagar. God sent an angel to physically return her to Abraham when she fled after being abused by Sarah.
the title sounds like something Robin would say
"Holy Homophobia batman, these Christians are getting out of control!"
Lol i was thissss close to tilting it like that actually.
They are against gay marriage, but have no problem with pedophilia. 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
I was hesitant to bring that up as a point because some obviously do take issue but yes spend your time making your smirks at the pedophiles and doing something about them within your own profession before telling a secular person who to love!!
Have you been paying attention? Equating homosexuality with pedophilia is pretty much their whole approach right now. And if someone mentions priests, they just retort about public-school teachers.
@@MindShift-BrandonThe last time I checked Brandon, it wasn't priests advocating for children to be mutilated or taken to some odd bars and meet dr*g queens. Which community can advocate for that and not get backlash?
Ask yourself which community can advocate for children to go to dr*g queen bars and not get backlash or go around marching "we"re coming for your children".
we dont like that stuff ignorant kid
I suspect his position on gay marriage being impossible is that he things marriage is ONLY for procreation, which is both horrible and backward.
yes, its so very harmful.
I had this argument with a Christian that I know the other day. They were going on about how they think the gay lifestyle is sinful and wicked and demonic and disgusting, and I finally said that’s homophobic. So they completely flipped out like “I’m not homophobic! I have some gay friends! If anything you’re a bigot for judging Christians!”. I’m just like “Calm down. I’m not trying to attack you. I’m just speaking technically. Having strong prejudices like yours against a group of people is being technically being phobic of that group. That fact that you have a few gay friends doesn’t erase the fact that you’re homophobic”. Needless to say the conversation didn’t end well.
"It's impossible. Just like male breastfeeding." Actually lactation in human males has been documented and observed. So that line of thinking just went out the window.
Love this new channel! Spot on with the insight into brainwashing and being able to point out the cult's own hypocrisy on subjects such as divorce.
thank you kindly! appreciate you being here and the kind words.
This harkens back, for me, to the whole culture war thing that seems so dumb. People are against others having rights (celebrations, heritage recognitions, etc) when it absolutely takes nothing away from their own freedoms. As you've said, granting marriage equality takes nothing away from straight couples. Nothing! I can think of nothing more American than freedom - yet so many Americans are against any form of freedom that is not "theirs".
It's not a problem that expresses itself exclusively in the USA, but sure. The US Constitution supports the rights of lgbtq+ people as well.
Yup. It was going to be the collapse of marriage and the marriage industry in the US because straight people wouldn't want to be aligned with gays getting married. Fast forward a dozen years...all kinds of people are STILL getting married and still spending obscene amounts of money on the ceremony and reception. So much for that thinking.
Exactly, this is why I as a right-wing libertarian are 100% on the side of personal freedoms, including the right to pursue happiness regardless of orientation. It is sad to see fellow right-wingers, in this comment section and otherwise, choose the false path of authoritarian and collectivist "religion". They become to embody the tyranny they claim they hate.
5:04 it’s called galactorrhea. Biologically born males CAN lactate as both sexes have mammary glands. Granted it is not common, and a lot of times if a cis male begins to lactate, it could be due to an underlying medical condition or medication, but not always. Another fun fact, male (cis) lactation is no different from the milk produced by cis females
Thank you for calling out the bullshit that Jesus said that was actually harmful. Too many people who are non religious say things like "Jesus was so woke, if Christians acted like him the world would be a better place" ignoring the plethora of things that Jesus said that was horribly destructive to people, such as; cut off your hand and gouge out your eye if it causes you to sin, if you aren't with me you're against me, he called a woman a dog, he said marriage is between a man and woman, how hell is a place of weeping an gnashing of teeth, go out and convert the whole world, etc, etc. I'd love to see more atheists/agnostics point out the garbage that came straight from Jesus.
Thank you so much for pointing out how ridiculous it is to single out homosexuality among the other really specific things listed in Leviticus as the main things Christians like to target. Nobody is trying to stop people from eating pork or shrimp, mixing fabrics in clothing, and like you said, even divorce is mentioned as one of the banned practices in Leviticus and not a soul would like to stop other people from doing it. I'm gay and both my husband and I are extremely grateful for being legally married and it has been beneficial for us for at least a few reasons and has hurt no one.
We literally want nothing special. Just the exact same rights as any straight couple. Christians should also be aware that the true "traditional" marriage looks almost nothing like the marriages that are popular today. Originally, marriages were arranged, for one thing. I don't see any Christians fighting for that. They literally are just trying to oppress people who they disagree with by using antiquated text and its disgusting. Like, I am so happy for people doing what they want to do, including Christians practicing their religion, but it should never be the case that people use their religion to justify hurting someone else.
My pleasure and thank you for sharing all this. It seems so very simple to see but the haze of religion is strong. Also love your point about not following biblical marriages either. You
@@MindShift-Brandon marriage is a biblical word so stop perverting our traditions.
@@gene8675Nobody is forbidding YOU from marrying whoever you want. You can still go to muh church and get blessed by a guy in a dress and spend your wedding night shaking your fist at gay people.
It's just that there's a secular institution allowing gay people to be together as well, which is optional to do. It is a gain to others, at no loss to you. So as the acronym says, S the F U.
@@gene8675 That is ridiculous. Why do Christians who want everybody to do what they say so ignorant of history? Marriage has existed outside of the Abrahamic religions, because more than half the world doesn't believe them and never did, they had and have their own practices. Marriage existed before Abrahamic religions, we have archaeological evidence of that. And the word "marriage" comes from the Latin "maritatus," -- you know, from the Roman Empire that had lots of gods and lots of religions (and by the way were fine with same-sex alliances).
The other reason he loves the backlash is because then he can claim he's being attacked and thus is evidence that he has the correct position.
Some highlights from the comments on the original video:
"We would do better to overturn this idea that “rights” are a real thing any ways."
"If guys can marry each other, fathers and mothers should be able to marry their children for tax reasons."
"True Christian's stand up for Truth. May God defend Marriage, hoping society repents for perverting something so pure and Holy"
"Wow. “Legalizing male breastfeeding.” That’s the best one I’ve ever heard."
These idiots are doing everyone a favor. Their detachment from reality is making moderates cringe. Eventually the people who believe in god, but cannot abide by this blatant hatred will decide that they cannot condone this kind of stupidity and will fall away.
Also, these assholes will eventually die. I bet their grandchildren will not have the same ignorant biases. Incremental improvements result in profound changes, generationally.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. Thats a great idea.
The Catholic faith will never die. Throughout history people have tried to squash the light of the faith but it never dies hence all the martyrs. The Church is the pillar of truth.
@@juliabriggs1141 It doesn't have to die. All that matters is that the membership rolls dwindle until those of you who choose to live in the faith can do so WITHOUT having the political power, social clout, or ability to foist your dipshittery onto the rest of us. There will be peace when you are culturally MUTE. And that insignificance is closer than you think.
@@silphiumforever The Church will never be mute. Throughout history people have tried to silence and destroy the Church but have never succeeded. During pagan times Christians were bold in sharing their faith and many were subsequently killed for it, majority of the first popes were martyrs. The Church will continue to evangelize and teach as Christ commanded and nothing will stop this. The high demand for traditional Latin Masses shows that the faith is not insignificant, it is going through tough times but will inevitably come out stronger as it has done so before.
@@juliabriggs1141 I think you aren't quite taking my point. True, the church will never be mute. And as the less faithful fall away the median faith *does* tend to increase among *those who are left,* but a smaller voting block isn't as good as a larger one, is it now? Your evangelism doesn't have the same success rate as the tip of a spear, does it? It's not the Middle Ages anymore after all. And you may fetishize the martyrdom of those venerable ancients, but you may have a harder time convincing your target audience (of breeding age) here in the US; where the whole concept of martyrdom has degraded to having to hear a contrary opinion and then whining about it in the comment sections. You may have better luck romanticizing the quiet dignity of the martyr on the continents where the faith *is* growing (the value of life being demonstrably less where the number of genocides is the highest, obviously). But I do admire your unwavering positivity and determination. Soldiering for Christ. Never let the facts get in the way of a good delusion. And please do proselytize far and wide, in states and counties where your numbers are the smallest. Preach the Word straight from the book. It is already too late here, where you live, if the polling numbers are to be believed. Declines decade by decade. It. is. already. too. late.
I love that sacrificing a priest Analogy
Seriously. The “family-friendly” defenders of biblical marriage that want to make gay marriage illegal are not trying to make divorce illegal. How can that be?
I didn’t realize that interracial marriage is impossible, after all such marriages used to be illegal in the United States. Interracial marriage (between blacks and all other races) has only been fully allowed among Mormons since 1979.
So many impossible things with god…
Thank you for this video. I grew up in the church, teaching Sunday school, being a camp counselor, and I did it. As a gay man in 2013, living in a secular country, I am exhausted with all of the religious rights demands being put into law to restrict the freedoms of my community. There are roughly 10,000 versions of Christianity and over 500 versions of the Bible but still, the far right claim they know the one singular version. The idea of their version being the right version to control our country is the only idea they have, and the LGBTQ community, women, and POC are in their sights, all to different degrees. Knowing that if I try to engage with these folks, I'm the one called "intolerant," it's become clear that trying to reason with them is impossible and exhausting. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for this video.
My pleasure! Thanks for your context and adding in here. Its great to see this side more clearly. Love your examples and yes the frustration and hypocrisy of being the one called intolerant is enough to make me explode.
Tim, how you can be so old and so dumb?
I like how he’s trying to say marriage is from the bible marriage doesn’t fit into the constraints of Christianity or religion it’s a much older thing than that in all cultures
I have to say, that I am very glad that the church does not have the right to impose it's definitions of social contracts onto everyone.
The apologists play so fast and loose with definitions of words, in arguing for, or rationalizing the bible claims, that I see no reason to take this claim about the definition of marriage as anything more than laughable.
The concept of marriage has shifted in different ways over the years, in society, and in the bible. And even if the bible were consistent and specific, we aren't living in a theocracy to insist on biblical law.
Agree on all!
Xtians: OT verses we like are laws - from god - to be obeyed forever.
Same Xtians: OT verses we don't like were overturned and do not apply now ... because "Then Jesus came ..."
LOL
The absolute worst!
Thank you, MindShift! Your videos help me shape my thoughts!
So glad to be useful!
It's funny that it's a Catholic priest saying it. I've met several ex-seminarists and even dated one and predictably seminars are full of gay young men who seek priesthood because they're not gonna marry anyway, and predictably having a bunch of sexually repressed gay men all living together isn't really conductive to them keeping their vows of celibacy. Even I considered it, but thankfully my college years were a process of both deconversion and self acceptance.
It amazes me that people devoted to helping people and being morally and ethically correct when given a choice between tradition and compassion, so often chose tradition! Priests are people who meditate on goodness and purport to be in tune with spiritual forces. Yet simple compassion eludes them! No birth control, no abortions, no gay love!!
Perhaps for someone willing to commit to life long celibacy, sex was never a strong hormonal drive for them (a- or demi-sexual?). That would explain the lack of empathy for the people who experience very strong sexual urges. How else can you explain men who see sex as only a procreative function and condemn all other sexual expression?
This is very well stated and is just very sad to think about. Thank you for this comment.
God, how is the marriage of two adults of the same sex who love each other and consent to be bound in matrimony any worse than the marriage of a man to a child-sex-slave-bride from the nation he has just slaughtered?
right, so many horrendous forms of "marriage" in the bible.
Exactly the Bible is disgusting
Woke is disturbing and disgusting a bunch of people pushing tash on kids and trying to defend it is horrible, but let's not talk about that
@@masterjose8483You're delusional
I am so glad I found your page. As a now openly gay ex evangelical, I can finally say I feel free for the very first time. ❤
"You could call it something else, but it can't be marriage, because marriage exists the way it does in the culture."
Wow, it's almost like cultures shift and change or something.
Yup! just so ignorant. Purposely ignorant.
Fortunately the bible isn't where English comes from and is not a definitive source for what is or isn't factual or possible either. The tiny little world people like that must be stuck in within their own heads is surely a sad place, so absolutely ignorant and scared of learning about the world around them.
And religions also evolve in time. Even Paul's letters in the new testament are in good part dedicated to yelling at new christians who are not believing the right way, allegedly diverging from Jesus' teachings only decades after his death.
@@nicolasandre9886 Natural law, which defines marriage, does not evolve/change.
@@Lerian_V : marriage is a social convention, not a natural law.
Kiitos!
Thanks for the support!
Actually, there are cisgender males who can lactate. There aren't a lot of them, but it is a thing in rare cases.
Thank you for this episode. I accepted my personal schism with SDA'ism and superstitions, after a long terrifying inner conflict, way back in 2001. I am still so happy to be free of that nonsense. All of it.
Men can lactate when testosterone is low and the female hormone is high. I know this because I'm on a medication to stop the lactating hormone in me
This is one of the most logical explanations of the gay marriage and the religious reaction to it I have heard.
Thank you! All i wanted was to hopefully simply put things in perspective. Glad to hear it landed
An unmarried priest defines what marriage is and dictates to others who is allowed to marry to whom. Totally legit.
Thank you I used to be a Christian now I'm a bisexual and queen in training you helped me deconstructed my faith and see how ridiculous it is and I'm not afraid of going to hell thank you again ❤❤❤❤❤❤
Fantastic, articulate reasoning as to why marriage should be available to all. When the same sex marriage debate was raging several years ago here in Canada, I was astounded at hearing smart people say very stupid things to argue against marriage equality.
Thank you. Its such a strange thing to be against and takes something like religion, i think, to make it happen.
What is this man even on about? Is he that bothered by the usage of the name 'marriage'? And him hanging on to the word 'can' like it CAN'T be marriage, like that ever stopped words from changing and whatnot.
So the guy that is not allowed to get married is mad that gay people can get married? Sounds like jealousy to me.
I was raised with the notion that homosexuality was wrong/funny/odd. Luckily, I was never raised that it was something to be hated. But then I wasn't gay. I know one aunt never married and lived with her longtime female "friend" her entire life. Yeah, she was never ostracized from the family, but the subject of her home life was never brought up or discussed either. It just was. So it was easy for me to adjust my mindset as I matured. It wasn't wrong at all. What business was it of mine what other people did? If it wasn't illegal and not coerced, it was nothing I should be worried about. I knew gay was not "catching" or any other ridiculous claims, and it was part of my decision to leave my faith as many other things were also deviating from what I was brought up with - women are and should be equal under the law to men. I knew that in grade school. We were not inferior or meant to be submissive. Where were the divine female in the pantheon of father/son/holy ghost? Divorce was a freedom for women. Control over our fertility was another freedom for women, etc., etc. So after a while, I realized the monotheistic faiths didn't jibe with my life anymore.
He is actually wrong. It's not impossible for men to lactate. It usually requires takes certain hormones, although there are natural causesas well. All the required parts are already there to get the process started, you just need to activate them.
I'm a 64 y.o. gay man.
I will never understand anyone regardless of their sexual orientation would denigrate themselves by asking government for permission to enter into a private union.
Contract Law is all anyone needs to protect yourselves and your property.
I have had two long term relationships that ended in the death of my partners. Because we had laid out a legal set of contracts, I had no problems with anythig, including making end of life decisions.
Screw the government and take care of your needs yourselves.
Alright so first time I felt the need to comment on the video before it's finished because, while it's not to the same extent, men can lactate. Cis men can lactate with a very slight hormonal change in their bodies. This is a, maybe not common, but certainly documented thing.
Catholics are focused on marriages leading to many, many babies and this is one of the reasons why this guy is dead set against gay marriage…it hasn’t dawned on them that lesbian couples can have more children than het ones.
I actually think this guy is anti-divorce as well.
I wonder if he goes around checking in on straight people to make sure they have reproduced and if not, tries to annul their marriages.
@@MindShift-Brandon If he could, he would.
I heard more against being child free at Catholic school than actual homophobia. Not because of any tolerance, but because homosexuality was already established as “wrong”, but there was a need to decry people who’d rather not have kids.
@@Nocturnalux Yup. The Vatican, like any corporation, feels a need to keep having more money coming into the coffers.
The few times that the Bible talks about marriage are interesting examples that Christians usually ignore.
Solomon had many many wives, and God himself reprimanded Solomon for his wives not being Jewish and continuing to worship their own gods.
Solomon didn't change a thing.
David literally divorced his first wife, nearly starting a war, so that he could take a woman who was married to another man, killing him in the process to do so.
This is the man after God's own heart.
Another story has a man working for 7 years to get a woman that he wanted, was tricked into marrying her sister, then being given the woman he wanted in the end.
So he had two wives, both of whom, he bought.
Marriage contracts were about the transfer of property.
Women were chattel property. Children were chattel property.
It was about property. Not about love.
Although lust was the driver in the Bible stories.
And the mention of love in marriage... Not so much.
❤❤
That could be why the Bible actually did spell out that men should love their wives.
so many good examples here, thank you for sharing!
@@MindShift-Brandon
I feel like the girl in Footloose when her bf asked how she knew stuff in the Bible.
In my case, it was growing up being rewarded for memorizing Bible stories.
😁
Good afternoon and may the peace of the Lord be in this thread! About your commentary, it has many wrong assumptions and lacks more context. Indeed, The Lord said that man would leave his parents and be with his woman and become one flesh. So when did God allow polygamy as for the case of Solomon, David and Jacob (which is the third man you described)? The answer is simple: never. He never allowed polygamy, only monogamy. So God, unhappy with with what David and Solomon did, greatly punished them, having David being persecuted by sword and having Solomon`s kingdom facing powerful enemies.
You want to know what marriage is like to the Lord? The relation between husband and wife? It is like Jesus was with His church and how He still is today. He, God, was always there to help His church and protected it, nursed it, supplied it with all that it needed and loved His people so much that He gave His life to save them. He never laid a hand to strike His disciples, for what He wanted was their hearts, as He that was above them, made Himself their servant, even washing their feet and guiding them to a better life. Marriage is an alliance made of love, and love is the Lord.
@@juanranger4214
I was simply giving examples that are in the Bible.
A summary as it were.
You seem to be the one making assumptions about what God meant and what God did, etc.
Nowhere in the Bible is polygamy, prohibited or restricted.
All of the patriarchs had multiple wives or and or concubines. None was punished by God for having multiple wives or concubines.
The wives and concubines had nothing to say about it.
They were chattel property.
I have come to find David disgusting after reading about him without my Christian blinders on.
He rapes a women he rapes a women he watched bath, (there’s no consent when you’re summoned) murders her husband and God punishes him by killing her child. How was David punished? Off topic but completely horrendous.
It's also possible for men to lactate. Lactating in a man can be a sign of an underlying medical condition that shouldn't be ignored. Conditions like hormonal imbalance, tumors, or hypothyroidism can cause lactation in men. Other causes of male lactation can include medications, supplements, or NIPPLE STIMULATION.
Thank you for exploring this. I was fortunate to have a mother that was disillusioned with Christianity and also did not mind that I was a lesbian. Lucky for me an older sister had already given her grandchildren so I did not need to feel bad about that. Unfortunately that same sister decided to become Catholic and that justified her hating me because I was gay. She over time influenced my other two siblings to hate me as well for that reason, one of them claiming to be Christian. My dad did not care for Christianity either once stating that if were to be anything maybe Buddhist . I don't know where my two sisters got the Christian bug but they have tried to destroy my life as now they have God on their side? (Both my parents are gone so I get no help from them)
I mean... christianity can be taught in two different ways, either with the perspective of accepting that everyone is a child of god and that whatever happens is between the individual and god (no judging)
OR it can be taught as being superior and it's the world versus them (lots of judging) which is a very real trap for christians if one does not guard themself properly.
The idea that lgbtq+ people are seen as sick people who need healing (not using the word 'saving' on purpose), will also not help your case I'm afraid. Because you are sick and under the control of demonic powers. (according to some believers... *sigh*)
I feel bad for you because you're hated for who you are (without harming anyone) and I feel bad for your sisters, since they have not learned to love but to hate.
But I'd like to say that it does not matter what they think, they are wrong for hating someone who just wants to accept herself the way nature made her. And if there is a god, it's god's responsibility entirely for setting us up like this, so there's that.
I wish you much love. My deepest condolences.
Jesus said "don't get divorced."
Unless you're Kent Hovind, in which case, you can pray to God and get a free pass! 😊😊
Ha. Or about 50% of other christians.
Very impressed with your work here. Comment for the algorithm-I hope you go places, my friend.
Hey appreciate that! thank you very much.
Excellent! So many perfect points.
Glad you think so, thanks for watching!
This one surely got a lot of "interesting" comments and I knew it would. Of course some are to be expected, unfortunately, but some are sickening. Thank you for following through anyway. Wow. For anyone being against equality, respect, empathy and humanity, I'm so happy not to be in the wrong group. Keep moving forward in the correct direction, that's the best thing any of us can do.
Lets sift through all the bullshit, this is bigotry plain and simple.
Thank you ever so much for making this important video. I agree with you totally.
Thank you!
Interesting side note. The two clergy in the video are Eastern Orthodox. Orthodoxy teaches that you can divorce and remarry up to three times. That's an actual teaching of theirs. The Catholic Church at least officially teaches against divorce in keeping with the teachings of Jesus. Though that teaching is of course problematic in itself.
Don’t normally comment, I’ve found your content really enlightening. Would love to see more deconstructions on LGBT stuff. Particularly a video I came across, Jackie Hill Perry, a lesbian having converted to Christian. Would love to hear your commentary on her stance
Thats very kind. And thank you for the rec. I’m bookmarking the video now.
The opening statement says it all.
Brandon: would you please add a pop shield (or maybe EQ?) to your mic? Me and my woofer would appreciate it. And also, keep up the great work! I have the feeling that your channel is sure to grow quickly as soon as it gets a bit more exposure.
ha! i have been meaning to buy a pop filter, this was the push I needed. thanks for watching!
@@MindShift-Brandon Thanks for working on this silly side topic. One more suggestion for you: it helps to move the mic out of the air stream in front of your mouth so that the high-pressure spurts don't hit it. I see a lot of youtubers choosing to put the mic off to the side, but you could also try putting it lower down. On an unrelated topic, you just got a shout-out from Prophet of Zod, so here's hoping your subscriber count is about to soar!
Appreciate it, my man!
You nailed this one, Brandon. Having been a college student in the early '70s I watched and sometimes took part in demonstrations in support of human rights for all people. I will always feel pride and admiration for those who expose and deride those who propound bigoted ideology. It's very hard (painful) to watch how propaganda has been used in the last few decades to effectively radicalize an entire generation of what I believe would otherwise be good compassionate people.
I worked in theater and was friends with a good many gay couples. At one point I tried to list the fundamental differences between the marriages of straight couples I knew and those of the gay couples who were in long term monogamous partnerships. I found that the differences, as compared to the similarities, were very few.
What is heartbreaking to me is that such a significant number of people actually accept and believe the stereotypes of formerly (and currently) marginalized groups. The zeitgeist around the social media phenomenon (if I may) seems to have had a few disturbing effects. First it makes access to manipulative disinformation, for those who are the targets, so much easier. Second it seems to encourage folks, who might have previously been soft spoken and who didn't feel comfortable speaking to groups, to "find their voice" and "speak their truth". Now I don't think these things are necessarily harmful in and of themselves (except the disinformation part) but often people who want to be more assertive but haven't done the requisite study and reflection to have made informed opinions can glom on to some pretty frightening stuff. That's one reason I believe influencers like Joe Rogan appeal to such large demographics.
thank you so much for sharing. Love your insight here and thoughts. If it wasn't so sad and harmful, it would almost all be an interesting experiment in human and group psychology, but
Adam and Eve were not married. Of course they weren’t real either but, they weren’t married. Marriage is just a contracted tradition. If my pet could sign his name I could marry him. The goal of religion is to repress anyone who doesn’t conform to their manmade rules.
this is very well said. thanks for adding this!
Excellent Points! Thank you for making and sharing this outstanding video.
Best new atheist channel hands down
Way too kind. Thank you very much.
I agree with everything you say. I'd like to add though, that words change or DO NOT change based on peoples desires. The argument that words change is a bad one on that basis, the people who don't want to change a definition have reasons for that, and not engaging them in that level won't do anything. Ya words change, but it's not an argument against someone who is already arguing for an opinion. Dude doesn't think marriage should be defined this way, as much as he doesn't believe it IS this. You'd need to give the actual reasons, not just cuz words change, cuz they stay the same too.
yes, fair callout. Thanks for watching.
I never understood the 'it will undermine society' argument. How?! Two blokes up the road living together doesn't somehow make you leave your wife.
the mind stealing lies of mythology are the abomination.
Yes, nothing wrong with mythology, as long as you don't confuse it with actual facts.
The UN declaration of human rights includes the right to marry and have a family. Nothing is specified about gender. End of story.
Yeah, gay people need the right to get married for all kinds of reasons, including being able to have their love be recognized and protected, and these guys are talking about semantics. They don't care about the sufferings of people who are discriminated against, sometimes to the point of death. They only care about making sure their definition of marriage is protected.
The priest stands on the Catholic church's position that marriage's sole purpose is for procreation...and a gay couple cannot do that. That's where he pulls the term "impossible" from. And I know that I still struggle with accepting homosexuality exclusively because of the Christian indoctrination I was subjected to across about 45 years as a believer. Even though I no longer believe, that indoctrination left permanent attitudes that I still fight to change within myself.
At least you are aware. Its taken me some doing also
My niece has a wife and each have had a baby and they are the most beautiful family. The kids are just amazing because they have the best moms ever and it has NOTHING to do with their sexuality. It is they are just stable and successful moms and love their kids more than anything and are raising them secular and as critical thinkers. Christians need to back off and mind their own business, period!!
Thats lovely! Yes back the hell off!!
Im sure they impregnated each other . Homosexuals need to back off and keep their sexual desires private. I am positive no one prevented your homosexual nieces from having kids, whatever means they used. Stop imposing your homosexual agenda.
Except you're denying the child a father. It turns it it's bad for them. Science vs your feelings.
Children deserve their biological parents to be present and together. The real world is messy and sometimes it doesn’t work out, but yes, it is obviously true that children deserve to have their mother and father
Anecdotal
Hi there Brandon, I'd like to talk to you about my deconstruction journey, and It's been real tough, and I was wondering if you and I could schedule a talk about it
Hey man. So sorry to hear that. Sure. Shoot me an email with some details. Its in my about section
What I love about you guys, you work very hard to produce the content for us.
just me over here, but i appreciate that.
Great work Brandon. One worrying comment based on something mentioned near end of video is, depending who is elected as next president, no fault divorce could be abolished during the that administration. The same i am sure would love to ban all divorce.
Yes i hope i was clear i am not actually for divorce banning. Its just the hypocrisy so far by many christians to hold on to that right despite jesus clear teaching. Its a scary prospect for sure.
@@MindShift-Brandon hehe don't worry you were clear. I was more commenting that there are people who protest less directly to outlaw divorce and sadly parts of the government are listening to them. I am with you on not having the morality of a nation determined by a large minority group.
@@MindShift-Brandon Do you know the Catholic stance on divorce? A quote from the book My Catholic Faith “Not even to avert the most serious calamities can the Church sanction divorce.”
Another excellent video thanks!!
Keep up the work you are doing its so important 💪
Thanks Jerry, appreciate that!