Snub Nose .357 Magnum - Heavy VS Light? Corbon 140 gr VS 110 gr XTP Bullets
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Thanks to one of my supporters Fudmottin for helping with this video (
/ @fudmottin ). I am doing a 10% Clear Ballistics test as well as a 'shootability' test with my Taurus 605 2" barrel with both 140 gr and 110 gr Corbon XTP ammo. The point to this is to see what the differences are with vast power differences in a snub nose revolver. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
Sorry to see this ammo not live up to performance expectations from what you've presentated Sam. Still appreciate your integrity and candor in all of these tests you perform. Thank you for all you do as well as contributing viewers like Dan the Wolf 🐺 man, and others. ♠️🎩🇺🇲🏹
It might not be good ammo, but it’s fun to watch! 👍👍👍👍
You have a lot of dedication. I would have thrown those bullets in the garbage. I don’t shoot enough and I’ve never seen blackened primers like that.
★ Any way you cut it, this IS valuable information. Great job with this demonstration as it unfolded. This video probably needs to be shared. Thank you!
Filmed 8/2/23
I gave it a 👍 for Sam’s excellent testing, demonstrations and explanations. But I am giving the ammo a 👎.
Thank you. You know it is funny that some people actually think that a thumbs down is how to rate a video where something performs poorly. I know, it's a weird way to look at it but I have been told this before.
I have come to really like Sam’s style, very down to earth and honest. Good guy vibes are off the chart.
Excellent review. Moreover, excellent patience on your behalf. Well done.
Fine vid Sam. I’ve never seen a revolver jam before. Heard of it but it was valuable to see it. I thought your definition was spot on. Jam vs catastrophic failure. Thanks
Yeah, one of those things people say. They say revolvers jam, that being they always fail catastrophically....I have never seen it myself, and have only had issues like with this ammo a couple times.
Old Marine and revolver collector. Never saw That before. Good job, Sam. SF🇺🇸
Great video, I always appreciate your honesty, experience and wisdom.
Man, that is so disappointing to me. I've found similar problems with Corbon ammo in several calibers, most recently with the 9mm 125 grain hollow point.
I've seen these inconsistencies and quality control issues since the 1990's with my very first purchase of Corbon .357 Mag 200 hardcast.
By the numbers it seems amazing, but in reality the results are just much too unpredictable to rely on for self defense.
Another psychic moment. Went to the range and ran XTPs and Fiocchi trying to find the Goldilocks round for the Kimber 3” .357.
I'm trying to find the perfect round for my S&W Model 60 Pro 3 inch. I just picked up some Winchester 145gr Silvertips because I've heard they are more mild. Hoping to test them this weekend.
How do u like the Kimber? It is on my list. 3" barrel, 6 rounds, good trigger, and about the same weight as my 2.25" SP-101. How did your ammo tests turn out?
As a casual observer of several firearm channels, I've noticed most guys that complain only watch for the part when the gun goes "bang" and don't actually LISTEN to the presentation. I like how Sam gives disclaimers and covers his bases, if you can't pay attention, watch it again before you start nitpicking.
Thanks for your honesty Sam as usual.
It seems to me that the new iwners of the Cor Bon name have been resting on the laurels of the original company. That is too bad, because they have some load with great ballistics, like 38 Super that approaches 357 Sig territory. Back in revolver days in LE, the full power 110's (usually a SHHP design) had a good record, almost as good as the 125's. The reduced 110's, like the Win USA are also good. They are the old "Treasury" 38 +p+ load in a magnum case. Nickel plated brass and sealed primers, so it should store well. Rated at 1250 fps i think, from a 4" barrel. It has long been a favorite practice load. I think they still make it. Less recoil and blast too
110 grain versus 148 and 158 grain .357 magnum makes sense as those were common defensive rounds actually issued.
Been waiting to see this 140 grain tested! Thanks!
Testing the different weights the maker puts out is the only way. Very good video.
I’m glad you got that on video. People say that revolvers never jam. I’m a fan of wheel guns, but you can have an issue, although rare and probably due to crappy ammo
As a reloader, I can confidently say the primers arent hard. Those primers weren't fully seated. That is why you were always able to shoot them on the second trigger pull. The first trigger seated the primer, which gives it a "light strike" as the primer has room to move and not compress from the strike. The second pull sets it off since it's now against the brass. Almost every time someone talks about "hard primers" its almost always because the primers weren't fully seated. The cylinder lock up confirms that, as it was likely the primer jamming between the cylinder and the frame.
One could argue either the primer OD or the primer pocket ID is out of spec.
Youre correct, it most definitely isn't the gun. That was a terrible batch of ammo.
I have been handloading myself for about 10 years. I have never had a handload fail to fire like that. If they weren't fully seated it's not something I have ever encountered in any ammo I have handloaded. Not sure why two strikes would blow holes through the primer cup though. Just never seen that before.
@@GunSam Had a batch of Argentinian primers (Servicio Aventuras) that were just a tiny bit too chunky. Not to where I couldnt fit them in, but if I wasnt really squeezing the bastards in, i would get a light strike just like you demonstrated. I was able to consistently replicate it by deliberately setting the primers as I would any other. Had to strike them twice every time.
as for the primer soot marks or blown primers, that very well could be over pressure from too much powder, too short of an OAL on some of them, etc. CORBON always loaded their shit scary hot. At least in my experience. They may have good results sometimes, but I'd rather stay away from them.
EDIT: should mention that I measured the SAs and they were in fact about a thou off from any other.
To blame the ammo right off the bat when the other part of the equation "that brand revolver" might be premature eh? I'm not dissing Sam he has shown some nice guns , good stuff but I always slam that company.
@@paulscountry456 ...what?
@@GunSam I've seen primer wholes quite a lot when using frontier model handguns with fixed firing pins.
Just goes to show, that even with a revolver one needs to test their chosen fuel to confirm function, accuracy, etc.
I'd say the 110-grain would have been good, but with those primers, no way...JUNK!
One ammo brand I will never purchase for Ruger GP100 .357!!! Thank you for this demo.
GS. Thanks, good video. Interesting issues with the ammo. Thanks for sharing and take care.
Always learn something from your videos. Thanks. 👍🇺🇸
Reloaders know that the Hornady XTP bullets are inexpensive components. They don't like to open, so they need some good velocity behind them. And they don't open explosively like other bullet styles. So Cor-Bon pulled off quite the hat trick here by making absolute junk ammo! Did they cheap out on the primers? Did they use the wrong powder for the desired velocity? Both? I don't know. The 110s and 140s would come from two different lot numbers that are printed inside the box in a date-batch format. I don't think I can trust anything made by Cor-Bon. Great video! Terrible ammo. Thanks!
They were very inconsistent, however the recoil felt about the same no matter the velocity I got, even a 200 FPS spread. If I recall, the 125 gr XTP .38+P load I handloaded and tested did nearly the identical thing this 140 gr XTP did. Exclusive video of Corbon testing ammo th-cam.com/video/YR1GPhCdXyM/w-d-xo.html
@@GunSam I feel rick rolled.
I am fairly certain that CorBon ceased to exist as an “ongoing enterprise” somewhere between 3 & 5 years ago. The address on their website in Mt. Gilead, OH is a food products distribution center and the building manager says “the ammo company went bankrupt about 2000”. Somewhere, out there, is a warehouse full of 5 or 10 year old ammo being sold as “current product”. I wish someone could prove me wrong because I used to like their ammo, long ago, in the “before” time.
@@pecosjane I bought Corbon 110 gr .357 Mag JHP about 3-4 years ago and it was in a totally different box than this ammo, and used a different bullet. Corbon still has a website. I heard that it was once in Michigan, then was somewhere in like North or South Dakota....I have no idea anymore about the company.
@@GunSam It's sad because I would like a manageable (for me) light magnum load for my M&P340. So far, +P loads seem to be the ticket. I haven't tested Hornady Critical Defense 125gr yet. Hornady seems to load on the lite side.
Light and fast vs heavy and slow is beginning to form a picture.
I am sorry to see the issues you experienced with Corbon ammunition. I have always had success with Corbon when I carried a 380.
Just curious...You had success when you carried it? That could mean a lot of things lol
@@GunSam nothing exciting. It just always worked, cycled well, was accurate, and had exceptional velocities compared to most other manufacturers.
Thanks for using the 2 and 4 inch barrels! The QC is an issue. CorBon should be recalling every single cartridge. The primer issues seems to be a problem among multiple brands. I am sticking with the big brands (Federal, Speer, Hornady, and Remington). Even Winchester has had QC issues, although primarily in their White Box. Just my 2 Cents, your opinions may vary. Thats the beauty of open forums and free speech.
I especially trust Federal and Speer. I have seen Hornady swap up components from time to time, had an upside down bullet and a missing primer before, two different boxes of Critical Defense ammo. I have never had any significant problems with Federal or Speer.
Interestingly interesting. I have never heard of anyone saing revolvers jam.
When something stops rotation, when something is jammed in the action or between parts...I don't know what you could call that jam, except a jam.
XTP bullets seem to function fine if driven at a reliable velocity, the problem lies back in the casings. That's some garbage components right there. The space between the back of the cylinder and the blast face is a fixed distance, having primers backing out is a big no-no.
Thanks for the test!
Yeah, the bullets themselves did quite well. They generally don't at 38Spl+P levels. I could definitely hand load better ammo. I think I have 110s and 140s, but mostly I've got 125s. I expect they would split the difference. Virgin magnum brass is hard to find. Primers and powder are also an issue. That said, I have plenty of 38 cases and pre-covid primers and powder.
@@Fudmottin Starline or other brands?
If you handload, probably one of the most critical pieces of equipment to have these days is an annealer. If you gather spent cases from various places, after a good wet washing, I'd run them through an annealer just to bring all the brass into homogeneity in a given batch of handloads. Heard of the New Zealand sourcevd AMP Annealer?
@@exothermal.sprocket I'm not familiar with that brand. For new brass, I buy Starline. Fired brass is brass that I shot myself. Mostly it is R-P or Federal. As for primers, I have a good supply of CCI for now.
I know annealing is rather important for rifle brass. I've not done it for straight wall pistol brass. I don't run super high pressures. I've run brass quite a bit before seeing fractures at the neck or the primer pockets beginning to get loose. I just toss it at that point.
@@Fudmottin Probably more important if you're firing heavily crimped brass which requires a good flare before seating the bullet. The part of the casing that gets stretched the most will be the first part that hardens to the point of splitting. But as you say, whatever the investment is in brass is probably less expensive than the annealer or the time put into it.
@@exothermal.sprocket There is an old annealing trick where you set the brass cases in a pan of water and hit them with a blow torch. It's a bit iffy, but if you get the right temperature on them and then knock them down, you can achieve good annealing. I have not bothered with this.
Crimping and flaring are definitely where my primary working of the brass goes. I do not do a full length resize every time. So long as the brass drops out of the cylinder, I'm OK with that. However, I do want proper bullet seating and crimping. Jacketed bullets only require a light taper crimp. And that's all you get with the cannalur. Lead bullets of course take a solid roll crimp. The upshot of this is that the neck goes first.
Given the current difficulty with obtaining virgin 357 Magnum length brass, I would certainly take better care of that. 38 Special is easy to get and I have a good stock of it either way. My target loads tend to be quite light. So that's a bit less work on the brass, particularly at the primer cup end. I have done high pressure loads for experimental purposes. Without a place to setup ballistic gel blocks, I can't say anything other than I've gotten good velocity and very loud bangs. One exception is that I can say that Sierra JHP ammo will explode on a pine board when running over designed velocity by a wide margin. I have yet to try that with hard cast SWC or FP bullets. I've got a good supply of XTPs, so I'm confident I can load something better than what CORBON did for this video. By better, I mean the same velocity from a 2" barrel (with consistency since I weigh my charges rather than using a volumetric charger) and good primers since CCI makes a good product and my stash is pre-Covid stored in original packaging in dry, constant temperature conditions.
muzzle energy not bad but primers not good ammo not good either.
Wow, so sad what’s happened to Cor-Bon!
I have no idea. I honestly don't remember ever having much for good ammo with them.
You might want to check the hammer spring adjustment screw on your S&W's you got there. I had mine back out on my 7" Talo 686p and it started with light primer strikes double action. Then it wouldn't fire at all double action then it wouldn't fire single action and the hammer wouldn't even stay cocked back. Screw backed out. Eventually i put a TK Customs competition trigger kit in it and i put loctite on that screw after i adjusted it, never had an issue after that.
I'm assuming you mean strain screw. Being that it was fully tightened and I NEVER had this issue before or after this ammo....wouldn't you think that your comment is a bit outlandish? It's like tearing apart a motor without realizing the issue is an oil cap.
Great Video once again. I stopped using Corbon awhile back. I was having issues with bullet setback in 380 & 9mm. Had rounds new from the box with nearly zero crimp, and could spin the bullets in the case with my fingers.
The crimp is why I quit reloading rimless cases. They head space on the rim of the case so they have to be exactly right. To loose and the bullets will move in the case. To tight and the cartridge can slip forward in the chamber and the not fire or worse cause an extreme high pressure situation.
These duds really expose flinching.
That's a little disappointing. Corbon is supposed to be a premium brand.
More than just a little, especially if your life depends on it.
I wonder if Corbon went to crap newest iteration when Pi sold? Or maybe these were bought 2020 when everyone's QC went crappy I'd ask guy when he bought it? Also nothing run w loading a Revo w 3 lighter rounds then heavier imo
327 Federal Magnum has the same effect on target with more capacity
Sure don't like seeing this but sure appreciate you showing it. Not for me & mine.
Good video.
You can get bad ammo from any maker. Also, some handguns do not "like" some types of ammo. I have been handloading since 1972 and have noticed some guns simply will not work with some powders. I have one that simply will not shoot 2400 powder.
I was at the range with a friend. We had identical 357 Magnum DA revolvers. I fired some factory 158 gr ammo in my revolver with no pressure signs. When he fired the same loads, every primer pierced. This ammo worked fine in some other revolvers.
During the Obama scarcity, I was delighted to find a box of 38 Spl 158 gr SWCLHP +P ammo at a shop. I was carrying a 4 inch 38 Spl at that time. It was my habit to try each carry round in each chamber to insure they would fit. I discovered the ammo had not been crimped. The case flare was still there. None would chamber. I ran them through my Lee Factory Crimp die. I shot half of them through the chrono to be sure there were no other errors.
So, for your carry loads, I would say try a few from a new box.
I don't know if you know this but all my old reloading books show the use of magnum primers with every 2400 load. The newer books don't show that. The older books always show much heavier powder charges than the newer books for the .357. The reason for this is some years back Smith and Wesson was having some of their handguns fail with the pressure the .357 was rated for so they begged and succeeded in getting SAAMI to lower the published operating pressure of .357. If you want a top quality strong .357 I don't recommend a S&M.
I would wager that Small Rifle primers may have been used to load that ammo.
I will be staying with Buffalo Bore,.. Very good ammo in all calibers.
Great video.
I had this same issue with PBR ammo 110 sjhp in 38 +p
Bought some of the DPX loads and they kept jamming the j frame with bullet creep
I shot some corbon hot stuff out my 686 performance center 2.5 and boy was I disappointed and then when I went to take them out my cylinder they where stuck lol
CorBon is hit or miss these days that 110 gr was my go to rd in snubbies but the quality control sucks now it’s unusable as a self defense rd at this point. Too bad because it was a really good performer in the past
Sounds like Small Rifle primers of the wrong variety were used in that ammo. You can get away with CCI and Remington Small Rifle primers in a .357 (#400 and 6-1/2) but that is about it.
Interesting... i just picked up some Corbon 70gr PowRBall 380acp ammo, this isn't making me very confident in it...
That is indeed a problem with your Taurus 605. The firing pin hole is too big and allowing the primer to back out. This is the problem with the original S&W 686. Those were recalled for the same issue and fitted with a new hammer nose bushing. The Taurus doesn't have a bushing, but Colt and S&W have always had a separate bushing. The fact that you may not have noticed the problem with other ammo is immaterial. The problem with continue to crop up, especial with the lighter bullet weights.
Never once had an issue with tens of thousands of rounds through it 4 years prior. After this video, ran a lot of rounds through it no problems....and the issue is the gun? lol, okay buddy.
The 110gr. performed well in the gel . Velocity , penetration , and expansion all text book . It's a shame it's so unreliable 'cause I'd use it otherwise .Thanks!
Thanks a lot!
I like the power levels but the faulty primers are a serious concern.
Seams like new manufactured primers are having quality issues. I believe this isn't your first issue with newly manufactured ammo.
Very powerful .357 Mag - even from a snub nose!... But yeah, those primers are definitely questionable. 😒
I don't recall, but have you tried any Black Hills ammo?
Just some 9mm
I personally would not trust my life with a Taurus revolver I would trust my life with a Smith and Wesson. Not trying to throw shade on your choice of carry. 😅 I’m just putting it out there 😂
I carry a Ruger LCR, have for a long time.
@@GunSam I’ve been interested in the Ruger LCR in 327 federal magnum. I personally carry S&W 649-5 in .357 I love the extra Weight.
The only factory defensive ammo I ever felt was way over pressure for my firearms was corbon. (decades ago) Question? Any possibility of the chamber having gunk in it from shooting 38 special? I've seen that happen with the buildup of a lotta rounds and then not cleaning before switching to .357. Not dissing or throwing shade as that ammo is for sure an issue.... Just throwing out possibilities. Great video as always!
Nothing wrong with the gun. I always clean them, never had a single ammo issue before this test in 4 years, also shot the gun in the weeks after I filmed this video, no problems.
@@GunSam then that's one potential cause off the list. 👍
Algorithm
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If I had the snub I would use 38 +P
The blast is rude with 357
@@danoneill2846 It lets everyone know you mean business.
Good shooting even with sorry ammo with primers that won’t function if you really need it. What is the size barrel that Snubnose
2"
🙂👍
Bet you have had a spring job done.
No. Stock gun. Weird to assume that. I get that a lot though, I will show thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds fired, then ONE does bad, and people for whatever weird reason, think that it's the gun. Disregard everything, "it's the gun". Makes me think we don't have much hope for people anymore. Mental decline.
👍😊 how old is the ammunition,well when was it made cause 21/22 there was a primer shortage there’s no telling where they came from.
I have no idea when it was manufactured, but I just bought it right before testing.
The recoil on that missfire...flinch much?
huh?
5:26. I got a little chuckle out of that. BTW great videos. Very informative.@@GunSam
What crap ammo!
I dislike subs and any gun made by that comical excuse for a company but that 110 did good in it.I have looked at many and shot a few and Taurus is the shoddiest I have ever seen I think a Jennings or a Raven is better...lol
You have all the warning signs of overpressure loads, congratulations. Next stop on this bus ride is a ruined firearm and a trip to the medic. I have been reloading for 43 years I have never gotten to punctured primers. Research reloading signs of over pressure.
Primers not fully seated, needing two hits, first hit to fully seat second hit to set off. Blackened primers are caused by overpressure blow by, over pressure also pushed the primers back causing cylinder to lock up. Pierced primmer of way over pressure literally tearing the primer apart trying to vent back until the primer failed at the hole in the back of the case head support ( breach face). Don't shoot that stuff if you value your firearm or finger's 😮
I have the knowledge. You been reloading since my birth year, I been reloading for about 10 years but I have seen signs here and there. I am pretty confident that my revolvers would handle them okay, as I would have assumed a lot of brass bulging if the pressure was super up there.
Ok what makes wisdom is learning from mistakes, have at it lad. I have been shooting since I was 8, about 56 years now. While I have had a few ahh haa moments in my life I retain 2 eyes and 10 fingers. 😅
@@scottdavis6734 Just saying, I didn't load the ammo. A supposedly reputable company did. I can't foresee why a reputable company would simply over-pressure a load to a dangerous level. If it were, you would think the external ballistics wouldn't be as weak as they were. Everything I have heard literally everyone speak of excessive pressure involves flattened primers and hard to extract brass. The brass wasn't expanded at all. The recoil was very light. I have known all of this and researched it some more, and found exactly what I have always found. So your advice to research it confirms there was NO excessive pressure. So thanks for the tip lol