It's amazing (and a Blessing) how the Tech ministry has to be so organized and diligent, in keeping everything pristine and up to par to provide and engaging service to the congregation. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed. As an ex home studio engineer hobbyist and is a geeky with audio engineer gear HW/SW talk this is exciting. This is coming from someone who went to churches in shopping center plazas as a kid with less than 12 members, 2 mics and electronic instruments like a keyboard and sometimes a guitar plugged into a simple mixer and a PA speakers. We use to take turns on the drums with no cymbals. Good times. 😂🎉
I use to think churches were so wasteful to invest in these tech until I started watching more streaming early 2010. It's such a toss up at times where the church would spend their funds but I definitely dont think this is a waste, especially if the church continually gives out good content that help people get closer to Jesus. Thanks for this tour. Loved every bit of it
It is actually a shameful con that so much money is donated in the ridiculous belief that it will aid salvation. You do not need all this made-up god stuff to live a full and rewarding life. And when you're dead, that's it. There is zero evidence of an afterlife. So yep, religion is a big and very well orchestrated con that preys upon those who don't have enough within to get on with normal life.
if possible, adding some b roll footage of actual use cases during a service would level up the content for me. it’s nice hearing people talk about how different equipment and software are used, but actually seeing it can definitely help decision making for those of us who are looking at different options.
Soy de Ecuador y ninguna Iglesia en la actualidad maneja este tipo de tecnología para multimedia, es impresionante. Quisiera aprender para poder implementar en mi Iglesia. Saludos y Bendiciones
Just so I can be "that guy," the Wing can only swap to virtual soundcheck with one button if you playing back via the sd cards. You have to swap every input to its "alternate input" if using the Dante card. But the Wing is ridiculously powerful for $3500.
I highly recommend Gavin Haverstick for your acoustics. He would be a great person to hire to design a solution for you that you can then implement as a DYI solution. I'm not an old guy (yet) but the "old guys" that considered both acoustic absorption and dispersion were pretty smart. You need both. Thanks for showing the Rivage. Those are great consoles! You've done a lot of great things with the system, and it was especially nice to see someone managing the audio network appropriately.
So the headset mic is held up and he says it's a THOR but when I look on the THOR website the headset mic they show doesn't look like the one in the video. Explain? Is their website out of date and the current THOR headset mics look like these? I definitely prefer this design vs what they show on their website (mic boom is shown to go over the ear on their website vs under the ear on the mic in this video). Can someone link to this specific headset mic on the THOR site or wherever they're purchased?
How do you guys protect the audio devices for surge or electrical drops, specifically the audio digital mixer, do you connect it to a ups or a power conditioner? Thanks in advance
Hello I'm from Brazil. And I learned a lot from the videos. I would like to know, what are the "return monitors" like on stage? I couldn't see it in the video. Thanks!
The Behringer x32 allowed me into the digital world of PA, as other sound engineers would not let me in and kept the work to themselves, being the only ones called. I bought the x32 and it taught me from scratch and now the engineers that did not let me in, are calling me for work! Do the maths. 😉
Could do a good 64-track main board and a second 32 board add-on for the occasional add-on choir situation. But why not go 128-144 if you can. Buy the extended warranty and no drinks in the area!
Cascading consoles is generally of no benefit, - unless the user is seeking more faders - as the chained units are limited to a single console I/O. If the Wing or x32 is the right console for the job at a particular church, and provides adequate expansion for growing into… wonderful. If a Yamaha PM-10 is what is required, so be it. There are churches out there that suffer massive headaches and staff/volunteer turnover from all the DIY band-aid workarounds and fixes because of inadequate research and investment. What’s the cost? The money for the “right” gear that gets the job done… Or the people, who need to re-invent the wheel multiple times over?
Praying that the Lord will provide the funds to replace your Bose PA. That has to be terrible to work with on multiple levels. I recommend Myere Sound, L- Acoustics, or Adamson.
I love the wing, but one giant downside is the 48-channel part. Now, if it was 64 channels, then the Wing, hands down would be the BEST digital console ever
And to think that I thought just volunteering running our old analog mixer, (now a behringer x32 compact), with no Livestream currently, although we might do that at some point in the future, AND running SongShowPlus and PowerPoint, all by myself, at a sound desk designed for 1 tiny person, was hard. Granted, our church is a small church, and I don't actually have to do that much considering that the sliders are usually already set up and/or adjusted by the time I arrive for worship practice, so I mostly just focus on the PC, and the announcement/pastor mics but still, WOW, that church has a lot of stuff going on at once. I definitely wouldn't want to be one of the ones trying to manage all that... I'd love to know more about those wireless microphones and beltpacks though(as well as wireless and rechargeable mics in general), as our current beltpack unit with over the ear mic is ok, and so is our handheld, but replacing batteries every 2-3 weeks on each isn't ideal (even including taking the old batteries home for controllers and whatnot to finish draining them) and I'd love for our church to eventually see if going completely rechargeable on our mics would be an option, not to mention at some point, I'd love to get them to build a completely new (bigger) sound desk, possibly raised off the floor a bit, for more vertical height to see over the people standing during worship, with some more well thought out storage and PC placement... To be clear, the desk was perfectly fine for the 80s and 90s, but when you add the stuff we've collected that sits in our small cupboards underneath on either side, plus the table with storage cupboards next to it, well, we could use both more desk space, and more storage space, or perhaps just a wider storage space plus one that's more chest height instead of floor height on the bottom shelf... And don't forget about our sub amps and whatnot, that just sits on the table cabinet shelves without a rack, which is perfectly fine, it's just that it would look nicer if we had an actual rack and had our stuff mounted to it. Just those small things would help me out a lot, and it wouldn't even need to have steps to access it but just a ramp, as someone else who does stuff with the sound board uses an electric wheelchair because they can't walk very good, because of injuries from years ago in a car crash plus other ongoing conditions. Believe me when I say that coupled with my already poorish hearing in one ear, just having a desk that's a foot or two higher so it's more above the crowd, would really help me see the talent on stage better without having to stand the entire time, to see over the crowd. Also, having the office chair at full height I can't fit it and myself under the desk, so if the actual desktop surface was a bit higher off the ground I think it would help a bit too, and of course, the sound desk is 2/3 of the way back in the sanctuary, whereas it would probably be best in the very back of the sanctuary, so all of the audience is in front of me, instead of having a few older folks sitting behind the sound desk... And imagine being able to have both a computer monitor AND the x32 compact on the desk at the same time without hitting each other or otherwise giving a cramped feeling... But oh well, I can dream, can't I??? Seriously though, for all those reasons, and for all those ideas, I wish we had money for all that, but we're a small church as it is, and basically, I think the idea that's prevalent is, if it ain't broke then why put money into it, honestly. I'm just guessing that's why, but still, I do wish we had money specifically set aside more for the A/V side of things so we could do some of this stuff without having to think about if we have the money, like to just be able to try stuff out to see if it makes a difference once in a while, without spending 100% of the A/V budget, which is currently "you A/V guys actually have money, let alone a budget?".(again, I understand, it's a small church, but still)
You mean you guys use disposable batteries on your wireless transmitters? If I were you, I’d immediately switch to rechargeable ones! And get really high quality ones. *Eneloop* are fantastic. They might seem pricey, but they’re totally worth it. Super reliable, and will work for *years* before they even start losing capacity. Concerning your ideas of mixer placement: Being able to see above the congregation is huge. I’d go as far as saying it’s a must. Also: PLEASE put those amps in a rack. Preferably as close to the speakers as possible though. It’s best practice to keep powered lines as short as possible. Nothing wrong with sending the signal via a 80ft long XLR cable if you have to. Being 2/3 in the back of the sanctuary is actually a gigantic luxury. Yes, it’s pretty bad for people if they have to sit behind the tech booth. But being all the way in the back would most likely not give you a useable listening position. You want to be as close to the "middle" of the congregation as you can, so you can hear what they hear. Depening on the room’s geometry and PA setup, being in the back might be tolerable, but it also might be a disaster (which, more often than not, it is). As for the budget side of things: "Start with why:" 😎 That goes for yourself as well as communicating with your church’s leadership. Ask yourself why you’d like to get/try something. And if what you have in mind would help the church as a whole, it should be possible to explain, maybe demonstrate (using examples from other churches) to your leadership what you could gain by making a certain investment.
@@rickbiessman6084 I only use non rechargeable batteries because, from what I understand, at some point in the past, SOMEONE at the church tried it and it was apparently a setup where the batteries didn't last very long... As for when we are done with them, I only use them for approximately 2 to 3 weeks after which time I bring them home and replace them with new batteries and then they live out the rest of their lives in my controllers for my VR headset, I've got probably 15 or 16 used batteries(or more)just laying around that are probably going to take me years to use... I do agree with the rest of your statement though, as much as I can understand the why's of at least, which is most of it. As for the room, figure it to be approximately 40 ft wide by 80 ft long, with a small room on either side of the stage and a bit of an angle on the wall on either side of the stage as well to try and help I assume angle the audio out towards the audience a bit, also about halfway back there is a small probably 10 ft wide space that is a room for a small heater unit that runs on gas or something if it's still used and as a bit of a small storage space as well, and that space goes all the way from the rear wall to about probably halfway or 1/3 of the way up the length of the room... And even I know that that little space on actually both sides of the room because there's a couple of foot worth of a shrinkage where the new part of the room starts where the old sanctuary used to end that's along that same line as well as the room on the other side but other than that it's basically just your standard rectangle and I do realize that both those the wide side and the skinny side shrinkage is going to bounce some of that sound but there isn't really much we can do about it and I'm not even sure if we would want to aside from that fact... One thing also to note on your comment on batteries, I have actually seen eneloop batteries, not in real life, but on battery charts and whatnot on youtube, and they usually run pretty close to the top in quality for what I consider to be prices that are more reminiscent of el-cheapo chinesium batteries. Not that they're cheap by any means, but that(at the time) the prices seemed like a steal... Yes, I agree we should have a rack for a/v equipment, but it's pretty well ventilated where they are stacked in the cupboard, and I believe there's even a custom vent grille/PC fan thing to help keep air moving in there too. Also, the installer, I know would rather do that as well, but since that's how it's always been, even when said installer was a church member, and since we're not using that much equipment in the semi-enclosed space, he decided that is it's worked that way for 40+ years with no major hardware failures, that it was okay to continue with the current arrangement. At least, I'm assuming, until we ever decide to remodel the sound booth, in which case, I'd probably see if that could be something to budget out for, because a rack, albeit not silent oriented, usually at least, would probably make everything a little neater, the issue with that, is the price, which I know can be pretty spendy, even for something as simple as a couple of vertical rails for a custom cabinet or other enclosure. IDK if I've said this in my original comment, but the important thing to remember is that I'm essentially an untrained volunteer, who is just there to do the minor volume slider adjustments and run the presentation software, and even though I've done it for 10-15 years off and on, it'll probably be another 10-15 years before I'm well versed enough to feel comfortable setting up the EQ and whatnot, that was set up by the installer; again as someone who went to our church and has sound mixer experience, it wasn't hard I reckon, even without the worship team there...
To the redundant power supplies: it makes a lot more sense to have only one running at a time. The most probable reason it should fail is due to a line supply voltage spike, which will kill BOTH of your supplies. If zou run only one at a time, you do have a spare ready to go. The probability of only one supply failing mid show is much smaller than the line spike case. If you do not have power conditioner and UPS before them. Only then it makes sense to run both simultaneously.
Wing is a great a console in terms of flexibility. It can route a lot of things in a lot of ways. What it lacks is sound, interface, and stability. The internal plugins aren’t awesome by any means. But for $5k ish, it’s still a great deal. But the interface is not great as the interface of it is super unlike any other console and not intuitive at all. Love the Wing for what it is but the rivage, Digico, ssl, are leagues above it
I am part of a satellite church we have a baptism behind the stage for cheap what is best way to get a camera to work for 70 feet from tech booth to behind the stage?
Imagine having all this high-end equipment, consoles worth $30k+, and running it through a Bose FOH system. 🤦♂️ Rolls Royce with a Honda Civic engine.
Poor guys, seems like whoever was there before all of them got real trigger happy and didn't know what the heck they were doing. And these guys were left with an over-complicated mess of an ecosystem. Only reason all of this mess works together is because of the top shelf quality. Not a lot of critical thinking and problem solving went into the tech systems and ecosystems! Just buy the nicest stuff because it saves you from really knowing your crap!!
yeah the previous guy didn't do a great job with the transition but as the new captain of this ship I will say I enjoy everything we have and we now know how to use it to it's full potential.
Hey, I love the videos guys! I work at a church down in Loveland, Ohio, and were about to finish up some major production upgrades. If your looking for another tech tour, our church would be a good place to do it at! Let me know if you guys consider it and I'll send you my email then. Thanks guys!
Anyone else think the x32 and Wing jokes are getting a little old? No? Am I alone? I get it... but they aren't the solution for every application. Your videos sure wouldn't be of much entertainment value if everyone used and did the same thing.
@@Churchfront That would be great. You could even do shorts to show how low-cost consoles can do similar functions. Then it isn't jokingly saying that a Wing or x32 can do the same thing. But I also suggest in these videos, where ministries have this equipment, focus on the "why" they have it. Have they truly wasted money and could have been more effective? Did someone specifically donate to that purpose? What are the edge cases that couldn't be met by the common Wing? I mean, you can get most of the 'church' features of a Wing in an M7-48...
@@aaronvinyard From my experience, many times it comes down to channel count and flexibility, which are directly influenced by what the church leadership is wanting to accomplish with the music ministry. If you add a choir and orchestra to the typical worship band setup, it's easy to start hitting a wall on what you can do with an entry level digital console. I think channel count was mentioned in this video as a reason. Now...whether or not a cheaper console could have handled the same channel count is probably up for debate, but there also needs to be some room for personal preference and, honestly, mistakes. I was a tech director for over 10 years at a large church and I can think of more than one occasion that I or my team spent too much money because we didn't know about other options or other ways of doing it. We never did it maliciously, but those mistakes helped us prioritize growth in our technical capabilities because we wanted to invest money wisely.
@@steve01010 Completely agree. There were some comments about having three cascaded Wings to accomplish the channel count. Yeah, that should be considered a joke, but not everyone will get it - that has its place, but that would be very niche and inappropriate in most cases. Yes, have an A2 running a console for orchestra and choir outputting to an A1 on another console for band and vocals - sure. But even that is sometimes silly.
Can someone please explain how Waves us used alongside the rivage?! How do the effects get utilized...is rivage hooked to the computer back thru rivage?
Waves has a product for live applications called SoundGrid. It’s probably an i/o expansion card installed on the console that connects it all together. SoundGrid is it’s own computer that does all the processing then sends that audio back to the console.
@Jaden Sanderson hey, are you just using a DI from coming from the triggers, with no module? Or do you need a module to use them as gates? Thank you for your time
@Jaden Sanderson wow… ok I was wanting to do this but as you know it gets pretty pricy with a module! Thanks man. My church has the room match and it’s a dope system, we have double the amount of subs RMS218, and I’m glad we did. Great low mid presence which I was afraid of it not having enough. Apparently the roommatch system was designed to compete with the K1s. But we know…it’s hard to beat those. Never the less they are surprisingly good.
@Jaden Sanderson Hey, Jaden, how much are you looking to get for the QL5? I'm the tech director at my church and we are looking to add a broadcast mix station. We have a CL5 at FOH so a QL5 would fit right into our system.
Great video; my choice - the Behringer X32. I like that you are challenging the design choices of this production set up. I think that you can reproduce their end product at a fraction of the budget if you really rationalised everything, and considered all the new technology solution options out there today. For example, the Yamaha Rivage series may be wonderful, but a simple digital mixing console with a digital snake will do the job and cost a fraction - even 10% of the price. Even the work flows here can be rationalised and done by a team the fraction of this one, with a fraction of the resources this one requires. If you are a broadcast station, or some sort of production house that is creating content on a daily basis, maybe you can justify these investment decisions, but otherwise, I would say, this is far from being "good stewards"; rather wasteful actually.
I think I’d disagree as well hey. I think I tend to focus more on workflow rather than end product. I think churches have burned through many volunteers because of hectic workflows. So if we are able to pay more money but we have a more stable workflow then I’d say that’s a fair trade off
So I've watched their live services; they are here on TH-cam... This is definitely overkill. You are talking about a 5 piece band: bass, 1 keyboard, 2 guitars, and drums. Vocals - you have the lead, and main backing vocals - that's 3 or 4 mics. The choir could be 12 or so, but they are turned down anyways.... and for that they have a mixing console that costs over $100,000 and offers over 100 channels? That's before talking about the fancy lighting and all the other extravagant gizmos... I see churches doing more than this with less than a Behringer X32. I love you guys and want you to do well, but I don't consider that money well spent!
There wasn’t a specific set of questions given to me as you would normally get in a “interview” this is more of a run through of the gear we have. If you have any specific questions of how the gear works let me know. I’ll happily answer all and every question you might have. Blessings 😊
@@Joe7ist I get that you weren't given any specific questions before hand. But at least try not to sound like you don't know what you are talking about. Maybe think ahead next time before the "interview" and think "what will I probably be asked?" This tends to work better than not being prepared at all. I know from experience as the Director of an AVL (Audio, Visual & Lighting) Department/Ministry at a church I work at. Then again, that's just me.
Cristian who is The video director is incredible, it’s difficult for him to express himself because English is his second language. What you deem as annoying or incompetence is actually a language barrier.
@@LeoMelendezMusic having a second language barrier doesn't annoy me. I'm still learning French and it is hard for me to communicate in it. What does annoy me though is one should always be prepared ahead of time when an interview is scheduled. Like thinking of what questions may be asked, and what subjects will be covered, etc. That is what was annoying me, not his language barrier that is understandable. Don't go putting words into others mouths
I would then love to see you answer questions about your gear in French …. Then maybe you would have a little more understanding that sometimes it’s not a matter of preparation, I know first hand that Cristian knows what he is doing and he is doing his best to answer the questions. But it’s your opinion 🤷🏽♂️. I find it unfair to call a person annoying simply because you don’t like how he answers the questions. But anywho carry on.
Nothing Normal about their setup!! looks like you convinced them to get the wing :P , the cringe on his face whenever you brought up the wing says it all
I love how they combine cheap, affordable, midrange, expensive and super expensive.
😂
It's amazing (and a Blessing) how the Tech ministry has to be so organized and diligent, in keeping everything pristine and up to par to provide and engaging service to the congregation. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed. As an ex home studio engineer hobbyist and is a geeky with audio engineer gear HW/SW talk this is exciting.
This is coming from someone who went to churches in shopping center plazas as a kid with less than 12 members, 2 mics and electronic instruments like a keyboard and sometimes a guitar plugged into a simple mixer and a PA speakers. We use to take turns on the drums with no cymbals. Good times. 😂🎉
I use to think churches were so wasteful to invest in these tech until I started watching more streaming early 2010. It's such a toss up at times where the church would spend their funds but I definitely dont think this is a waste, especially if the church continually gives out good content that help people get closer to Jesus. Thanks for this tour. Loved every bit of it
It is actually a shameful con that so much money is donated in the ridiculous belief that it will aid salvation. You do not need all this made-up god stuff to live a full and rewarding life. And when you're dead, that's it. There is zero evidence of an afterlife. So yep, religion is a big and very well orchestrated con that preys upon those who don't have enough within to get on with normal life.
Awesome presentation. Here is a church truly committed to sending their worship experience beyond their walls. Beautiful!
that lighting guys heart is in the right place, love to see it! great video overall
Splurging on the 2nd monitor rig & having the cheapest drum shield/mix match drum mic set up is the most “churchy” thing I’ve ever seen 😂😂😂
Great video and amazing set up. We have a smaller church with only about 10% of this gear, so I have a lot to learn!
Wow, this is a rich high tech church. A paradise for every high tech fan like me
Jake: You know what else has eq
Everyone: The behringer wing
Love how Jake is standing up for the Behringer Wing.
if possible, adding some b roll footage of actual use cases during a service would level up the content for me. it’s nice hearing people talk about how different equipment and software are used, but actually seeing it can definitely help decision making for those of us who are looking at different options.
God bless this man for having to mix a room that size on Bose pa.
Bose is not that bad… they get a lot of shame… but, I actually like their show match PA.
@@pahackett1978 They are, they are that bad.
My church uses 2 Beringer Wings for FOH and live stream and a Beringer X32 for in ears
Soy de Ecuador y ninguna Iglesia en la actualidad maneja este tipo de tecnología para multimedia, es impresionante. Quisiera aprender para poder implementar en mi Iglesia. Saludos y Bendiciones
Hola, soy Joel el Director de producción
Tienes preguntas del sistema?
Just so I can be "that guy," the Wing can only swap to virtual soundcheck with one button if you playing back via the sd cards. You have to swap every input to its "alternate input" if using the Dante card. But the Wing is ridiculously powerful for $3500.
This video is really great, professional team👍
I highly recommend Gavin Haverstick for your acoustics. He would be a great person to hire to design a solution for you that you can then implement as a DYI solution. I'm not an old guy (yet) but the "old guys" that considered both acoustic absorption and dispersion were pretty smart. You need both. Thanks for showing the Rivage. Those are great consoles! You've done a lot of great things with the system, and it was especially nice to see someone managing the audio network appropriately.
I really like their backstage organization!
Really amazing work. More blessings for all team
this the best tech tour video .very chilled.
So the headset mic is held up and he says it's a THOR but when I look on the THOR website the headset mic they show doesn't look like the one in the video. Explain? Is their website out of date and the current THOR headset mics look like these? I definitely prefer this design vs what they show on their website (mic boom is shown to go over the ear on their website vs under the ear on the mic in this video). Can someone link to this specific headset mic on the THOR site or wherever they're purchased?
I usually send two channels from the drums to the monitors one is the kick itself and the second one is whole drum kit processed
How do you guys protect the audio devices for surge or electrical drops, specifically the audio digital mixer, do you connect it to a ups or a power conditioner? Thanks in advance
What an education watching this video - worship understands the value of the ol' razzle dazzle.
evergreen is amazing🔥🔥
Thanks bro
Hello I'm from Brazil. And I learned a lot from the videos. I would like to know, what are the "return monitors" like on stage? I couldn't see it in the video.
Thanks!
The Behringer x32 allowed me into the digital world of PA, as other sound engineers would not let me in and kept the work to themselves, being the only ones called. I bought the x32 and it taught me from scratch and now the engineers that did not let me in, are calling me for work! Do the maths. 😉
Sometimes you got to do it yourself to get ahead. 👍🏾
I want to apologize to Cristian for my comments about his interview. What I said was impolite and not right for me to say
“Grand a master 3” Grand Ma3 on pc wing. Like what ????????
Wing has Send on Fader as well…:))
I like the notice....of you're on a budget......you have a bunch of equipement....but, if you're on a budget......i like it!!
😉
He does make a good point, could do 99% of what they do with 3 wings for like a quarter of the cost 😉
Could do a good 64-track main board and a second 32 board add-on for the occasional add-on choir situation. But why not go 128-144 if you can. Buy the extended warranty and no drinks in the area!
Haha. A quarter of the cost and a quarter of the quality.
Cascading consoles is generally of no benefit, - unless the user is seeking more faders - as the chained units are limited to a single console I/O.
If the Wing or x32 is the right console for the job at a particular church, and provides adequate expansion for growing into… wonderful.
If a Yamaha PM-10 is what is required, so be it.
There are churches out there that suffer massive headaches and staff/volunteer turnover from all the DIY band-aid workarounds and fixes because of inadequate research and investment.
What’s the cost?
The money for the “right” gear that gets the job done…
Or the people, who need to re-invent the wheel multiple times over?
Praying that the Lord will provide the funds to replace your Bose PA. That has to be terrible to work with on multiple levels. I recommend Myere Sound, L- Acoustics, or Adamson.
@@JadenLSandersonlove what you have done!
I love the wing, but one giant downside is the 48-channel part. Now, if it was 64 channels, then the Wing, hands down would be the BEST digital console ever
And to think that I thought just volunteering running our old analog mixer, (now a behringer x32 compact), with no Livestream currently, although we might do that at some point in the future, AND running SongShowPlus and PowerPoint, all by myself, at a sound desk designed for 1 tiny person, was hard. Granted, our church is a small church, and I don't actually have to do that much considering that the sliders are usually already set up and/or adjusted by the time I arrive for worship practice, so I mostly just focus on the PC, and the announcement/pastor mics but still, WOW, that church has a lot of stuff going on at once. I definitely wouldn't want to be one of the ones trying to manage all that...
I'd love to know more about those wireless microphones and beltpacks though(as well as wireless and rechargeable mics in general), as our current beltpack unit with over the ear mic is ok, and so is our handheld, but replacing batteries every 2-3 weeks on each isn't ideal (even including taking the old batteries home for controllers and whatnot to finish draining them) and I'd love for our church to eventually see if going completely rechargeable on our mics would be an option, not to mention at some point, I'd love to get them to build a completely new (bigger) sound desk, possibly raised off the floor a bit, for more vertical height to see over the people standing during worship, with some more well thought out storage and PC placement... To be clear, the desk was perfectly fine for the 80s and 90s, but when you add the stuff we've collected that sits in our small cupboards underneath on either side, plus the table with storage cupboards next to it, well, we could use both more desk space, and more storage space, or perhaps just a wider storage space plus one that's more chest height instead of floor height on the bottom shelf... And don't forget about our sub amps and whatnot, that just sits on the table cabinet shelves without a rack, which is perfectly fine, it's just that it would look nicer if we had an actual rack and had our stuff mounted to it. Just those small things would help me out a lot, and it wouldn't even need to have steps to access it but just a ramp, as someone else who does stuff with the sound board uses an electric wheelchair because they can't walk very good, because of injuries from years ago in a car crash plus other ongoing conditions. Believe me when I say that coupled with my already poorish hearing in one ear, just having a desk that's a foot or two higher so it's more above the crowd, would really help me see the talent on stage better without having to stand the entire time, to see over the crowd. Also, having the office chair at full height I can't fit it and myself under the desk, so if the actual desktop surface was a bit higher off the ground I think it would help a bit too, and of course, the sound desk is 2/3 of the way back in the sanctuary, whereas it would probably be best in the very back of the sanctuary, so all of the audience is in front of me, instead of having a few older folks sitting behind the sound desk... And imagine being able to have both a computer monitor AND the x32 compact on the desk at the same time without hitting each other or otherwise giving a cramped feeling... But oh well, I can dream, can't I??? Seriously though, for all those reasons, and for all those ideas, I wish we had money for all that, but we're a small church as it is, and basically, I think the idea that's prevalent is, if it ain't broke then why put money into it, honestly. I'm just guessing that's why, but still, I do wish we had money specifically set aside more for the A/V side of things so we could do some of this stuff without having to think about if we have the money, like to just be able to try stuff out to see if it makes a difference once in a while, without spending 100% of the A/V budget, which is currently "you A/V guys actually have money, let alone a budget?".(again, I understand, it's a small church, but still)
You mean you guys use disposable batteries on your wireless transmitters? If I were you, I’d immediately switch to rechargeable ones! And get really high quality ones. *Eneloop* are fantastic. They might seem pricey, but they’re totally worth it. Super reliable, and will work for *years* before they even start losing capacity.
Concerning your ideas of mixer placement: Being able to see above the congregation is huge. I’d go as far as saying it’s a must. Also: PLEASE put those amps in a rack. Preferably as close to the speakers as possible though. It’s best practice to keep powered lines as short as possible. Nothing wrong with sending the signal via a 80ft long XLR cable if you have to. Being 2/3 in the back of the sanctuary is actually a gigantic luxury. Yes, it’s pretty bad for people if they have to sit behind the tech booth. But being all the way in the back would most likely not give you a useable listening position. You want to be as close to the "middle" of the congregation as you can, so you can hear what they hear. Depening on the room’s geometry and PA setup, being in the back might be tolerable, but it also might be a disaster (which, more often than not, it is).
As for the budget side of things: "Start with why:" 😎 That goes for yourself as well as communicating with your church’s leadership. Ask yourself why you’d like to get/try something. And if what you have in mind would help the church as a whole, it should be possible to explain, maybe demonstrate (using examples from other churches) to your leadership what you could gain by making a certain investment.
@@rickbiessman6084 I only use non rechargeable batteries because, from what I understand, at some point in the past, SOMEONE at the church tried it and it was apparently a setup where the batteries didn't last very long... As for when we are done with them, I only use them for approximately 2 to 3 weeks after which time I bring them home and replace them with new batteries and then they live out the rest of their lives in my controllers for my VR headset, I've got probably 15 or 16 used batteries(or more)just laying around that are probably going to take me years to use...
I do agree with the rest of your statement though, as much as I can understand the why's of at least, which is most of it. As for the room, figure it to be approximately 40 ft wide by 80 ft long, with a small room on either side of the stage and a bit of an angle on the wall on either side of the stage as well to try and help I assume angle the audio out towards the audience a bit, also about halfway back there is a small probably 10 ft wide space that is a room for a small heater unit that runs on gas or something if it's still used and as a bit of a small storage space as well, and that space goes all the way from the rear wall to about probably halfway or 1/3 of the way up the length of the room... And even I know that that little space on actually both sides of the room because there's a couple of foot worth of a shrinkage where the new part of the room starts where the old sanctuary used to end that's along that same line as well as the room on the other side but other than that it's basically just your standard rectangle and I do realize that both those the wide side and the skinny side shrinkage is going to bounce some of that sound but there isn't really much we can do about it and I'm not even sure if we would want to aside from that fact...
One thing also to note on your comment on batteries, I have actually seen eneloop batteries, not in real life, but on battery charts and whatnot on youtube, and they usually run pretty close to the top in quality for what I consider to be prices that are more reminiscent of el-cheapo chinesium batteries. Not that they're cheap by any means, but that(at the time) the prices seemed like a steal...
Yes, I agree we should have a rack for a/v equipment, but it's pretty well ventilated where they are stacked in the cupboard, and I believe there's even a custom vent grille/PC fan thing to help keep air moving in there too. Also, the installer, I know would rather do that as well, but since that's how it's always been, even when said installer was a church member, and since we're not using that much equipment in the semi-enclosed space, he decided that is it's worked that way for 40+ years with no major hardware failures, that it was okay to continue with the current arrangement. At least, I'm assuming, until we ever decide to remodel the sound booth, in which case, I'd probably see if that could be something to budget out for, because a rack, albeit not silent oriented, usually at least, would probably make everything a little neater, the issue with that, is the price, which I know can be pretty spendy, even for something as simple as a couple of vertical rails for a custom cabinet or other enclosure.
IDK if I've said this in my original comment, but the important thing to remember is that I'm essentially an untrained volunteer, who is just there to do the minor volume slider adjustments and run the presentation software, and even though I've done it for 10-15 years off and on, it'll probably be another 10-15 years before I'm well versed enough to feel comfortable setting up the EQ and whatnot, that was set up by the installer; again as someone who went to our church and has sound mixer experience, it wasn't hard I reckon, even without the worship team there...
How can we get those framing guides?
P.S. Amazing video 🙌🙌
lol that’s a crazy setup.
Please go to the Passion City Church 515 at Atlanta and made a video 🙏🏼😍🙏🏼🙏🏼
To the redundant power supplies: it makes a lot more sense to have only one running at a time. The most probable reason it should fail is due to a line supply voltage spike, which will kill BOTH of your supplies. If zou run only one at a time, you do have a spare ready to go.
The probability of only one supply failing mid show is much smaller than the line spike case. If you do not have power conditioner and UPS before them. Only then it makes sense to run both simultaneously.
Wing is a great a console in terms of flexibility. It can route a lot of things in a lot of ways. What it lacks is sound, interface, and stability. The internal plugins aren’t awesome by any means. But for $5k ish, it’s still a great deal. But the interface is not great as the interface of it is super unlike any other console and not intuitive at all. Love the Wing for what it is but the rivage, Digico, ssl, are leagues above it
Great video- love the Yamaha Rivage series. Have you used the RPio racks with the Neve silk preamps?
Great! Only thing that threw me off was the Bose rig
Does anyone know a source for those background video's, like ocean waters etc. ?
Igniter media has some great stuff. Also visual media church (VMC)
I am part of a satellite church we have a baptism behind the stage for cheap what is best way to get a camera to work for 70 feet from tech booth to behind the stage?
Still want a Wing lord willing!
Imagine having all this high-end equipment, consoles worth $30k+, and running it through a Bose FOH system. 🤦♂️
Rolls Royce with a Honda Civic engine.
Commenting for the algorithm. Waiting to see which desk wins out…lol!!
cool backstage set up.
Amazing love you all
I was interested in the headset mic at 13:28. It looks like a DPA 6066. I can’t find it on Thor website. Anyone have a link?
I’m curious as to when they will be n expansion card for the Barringer Wing for Waves Soundgrid?
Midas is where it’s ar
The HD96 would make this install seem outdated.
Jesus is big business.
Poor guys, seems like whoever was there before all of them got real trigger happy and didn't know what the heck they were doing. And these guys were left with an over-complicated mess of an ecosystem. Only reason all
of this mess works together is because of the top shelf quality. Not a lot of critical thinking and problem solving went into the tech systems and ecosystems! Just buy the nicest stuff because it saves you from really knowing your crap!!
yeah the previous guy didn't do a great job with the transition but as the new captain of this ship I will say I enjoy everything we have and we now know how to use it to it's full potential.
Hey, I love the videos guys! I work at a church down in Loveland, Ohio, and were about to finish up some major production upgrades. If your looking for another tech tour, our church would be a good place to do it at! Let me know if you guys consider it and I'll send you my email then. Thanks guys!
why would you center fill your subs? Never seen that before
😄 You got me on that intro...
Perfect intro. "For the churches looking to upgrade..."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did Behringer begin the "Sends On Fader" phenomenon? lol
Nope, Sends on Fader has been around a long time. I was using it on SC48’s in 2011.
The Yamaha ProMix had it in 1994, so, no...
Why does a trigger work better, or any different, as a gate than using the self key of the input channel?
worshipministryschool.com/toolkit/
Hey @churchfront what camera are you filming on? Cheers!
Sony A7siii
@@Churchfront thank you god bless!
PM5 and ULX-P wireless. Something is not like the other.
I see REAPER in the first 10 seconds of the video.....I watch the video.
🙀🙀🙀
excuse me did i just hear Grand A Master 3 instead of grand ma 3
What software are they using for lighting?
grandMA 3 onPC command wing
Hi there! Is there an advantage to using physical drum triggers as gates opposed to the gates that the Rivage provides?
Accuracy, no signal bleed.
@@Iron_Sharpens_Iron Interesting. Thanks for the response!
Also, do you know how this makes it to the FOH board? Are they eventually assigned as inputs on the board?
I’d love to know about the triggers as well. I saw that they were running XLRs into two Radial boxes. Would love to know the whole rundown on this.
They would be assigned as inputs and then used as the “key” for the gate, or the signal that the gate uses to open and close.
Anyone else think the x32 and Wing jokes are getting a little old? No? Am I alone? I get it... but they aren't the solution for every application. Your videos sure wouldn't be of much entertainment value if everyone used and did the same thing.
I think he understands that the wing and/or x32 aren’t the solution for everything. I think that is why he jokes about it.
Message heard. I’ll make more X32 videos. Thanks Aaron!
@@Churchfront That would be great. You could even do shorts to show how low-cost consoles can do similar functions. Then it isn't jokingly saying that a Wing or x32 can do the same thing. But I also suggest in these videos, where ministries have this equipment, focus on the "why" they have it. Have they truly wasted money and could have been more effective? Did someone specifically donate to that purpose? What are the edge cases that couldn't be met by the common Wing? I mean, you can get most of the 'church' features of a Wing in an M7-48...
@@aaronvinyard From my experience, many times it comes down to channel count and flexibility, which are directly influenced by what the church leadership is wanting to accomplish with the music ministry. If you add a choir and orchestra to the typical worship band setup, it's easy to start hitting a wall on what you can do with an entry level digital console. I think channel count was mentioned in this video as a reason. Now...whether or not a cheaper console could have handled the same channel count is probably up for debate, but there also needs to be some room for personal preference and, honestly, mistakes. I was a tech director for over 10 years at a large church and I can think of more than one occasion that I or my team spent too much money because we didn't know about other options or other ways of doing it. We never did it maliciously, but those mistakes helped us prioritize growth in our technical capabilities because we wanted to invest money wisely.
@@steve01010 Completely agree. There were some comments about having three cascaded Wings to accomplish the channel count. Yeah, that should be considered a joke, but not everyone will get it - that has its place, but that would be very niche and inappropriate in most cases. Yes, have an A2 running a console for orchestra and choir outputting to an A1 on another console for band and vocals - sure. But even that is sometimes silly.
I think it’s just the PA “Bose roommatch” is not really for this kind of house of worship..
Did anyone else not know that Bose makes line arrays? Please. 😂
@TheAbrissbirne Most people don't know because if you're going to spend that kind of money, Bose doesn't even make the list.
1:04 we have all those in one ?😂
Can someone please explain how Waves us used alongside the rivage?! How do the effects get utilized...is rivage hooked to the computer back thru rivage?
Waves has a product for live applications called SoundGrid. It’s probably an i/o expansion card installed on the console that connects it all together. SoundGrid is it’s own computer that does all the processing then sends that audio back to the console.
@@austinlynum3470 ook. Wow nice
I'd be interested to know how you record/playback 144 channels of Audio. I though DVS was capped at 64 channels? WSG?
@Jaden Sanderson What's the pixel pitch of your LED wall? It looks clean on your live stream.
@Jaden Sanderson hey, are you just using a DI from coming from the triggers, with no module? Or do you need a module to use them as gates? Thank you for your time
@Jaden Sanderson no module?
@Jaden Sanderson wow…I didn’t know they produced signal without a module! I’m guessing you need phantom power?
@Jaden Sanderson wow… ok I was wanting to do this but as you know it gets pretty pricy with a module! Thanks man. My church has the room match and it’s a dope system, we have double the amount of subs RMS218, and I’m glad we did. Great low mid presence which I was afraid of it not having enough. Apparently the roommatch system was designed to compete with the K1s. But we know…it’s hard to beat those. Never the less they are surprisingly good.
They should really upgrade their gear, get with the times and buy a Behringer Wing.
Although the 16 channels of tracks is cool, sounds like it’s causing you more work (at mons & broadcast)
No, it's actually working just fine
Why is there another ql5 in the broadcast room? What is the function of it?
@Jaden Sanderson Hey, Jaden, how much are you looking to get for the QL5? I'm the tech director at my church and we are looking to add a broadcast mix station. We have a CL5 at FOH so a QL5 would fit right into our system.
@@henrygrunst9011 the QL5 is going at $14,000
@Jaden Sanderson okay, I understand. With the delivery time these days, they could be sold nearly the price of gold.
I wonder what fonts they use lol
uh i dont think that was a bb snare?….
I wish you. Guys can invite me I want to learn from you people you guys are so good you are the best I have ever seen
Please visit Transformation Church
the fact the guy doesn’t know the name of grandma3 is very painful…lightning dept needs to step it up
we have, since the creation of this video. ;)
Mike placement is strange
Do it versus a WING. Might harm some feelings.
You have a dead white pixel @1:04:59 ))
I also don’t think it was the old people lol that is just a crappy line array system. Bose isn’t the best
Dude throwing everybody at that church under the bus.
Great intro. That will be a controversial video if you ever make it lol.
I am sure he could tell you all about the sound equipment, and barely anything about sound doctrine.
Tell me about the Aseity of God?
🤩🤩🤩🤩
That’s why tax the church
Where does the church get all the money for this? Thats alot of money
You know the Yamaha console does a lot more stuff than is represented here.
Great video; my choice - the Behringer X32. I like that you are challenging the design choices of this production set up. I think that you can reproduce their end product at a fraction of the budget if you really rationalised everything, and considered all the new technology solution options out there today. For example, the Yamaha Rivage series may be wonderful, but a simple digital mixing console with a digital snake will do the job and cost a fraction - even 10% of the price. Even the work flows here can be rationalised and done by a team the fraction of this one, with a fraction of the resources this one requires. If you are a broadcast station, or some sort of production house that is creating content on a daily basis, maybe you can justify these investment decisions, but otherwise, I would say, this is far from being "good stewards"; rather wasteful actually.
Respectfully, I completely disagree.
I think I’d disagree as well hey. I think I tend to focus more on workflow rather than end product. I think churches have burned through many volunteers because of hectic workflows. So if we are able to pay more money but we have a more stable workflow then I’d say that’s a fair trade off
So I've watched their live services; they are here on TH-cam... This is definitely overkill. You are talking about a 5 piece band: bass, 1 keyboard, 2 guitars, and drums. Vocals - you have the lead, and main backing vocals - that's 3 or 4 mics. The choir could be 12 or so, but they are turned down anyways.... and for that they have a mixing console that costs over $100,000 and offers over 100 channels? That's before talking about the fancy lighting and all the other extravagant gizmos... I see churches doing more than this with less than a Behringer X32. I love you guys and want you to do well, but I don't consider that money well spent!
haha that intro hahaha
The video director is slightly annoying, it's like he doesn't really know what he is doing in an interview
There wasn’t a specific set of questions given to me as you would normally get in a “interview” this is more of a run through of the gear we have. If you have any specific questions of how the gear works let me know. I’ll happily answer all and every question you might have.
Blessings
😊
@@Joe7ist I get that you weren't given any specific questions before hand. But at least try not to sound like you don't know what you are talking about.
Maybe think ahead next time before the "interview" and think "what will I probably be asked?" This tends to work better than not being prepared at all. I know from experience as the Director of an AVL (Audio, Visual & Lighting) Department/Ministry at a church I work at. Then again, that's just me.
Cristian who is The video director is incredible, it’s difficult for him to express himself because English is his second language. What you deem as annoying or incompetence is actually a language barrier.
@@LeoMelendezMusic having a second language barrier doesn't annoy me. I'm still learning French and it is hard for me to communicate in it. What does annoy me though is one should always be prepared ahead of time when an interview is scheduled. Like thinking of what questions may be asked, and what subjects will be covered, etc. That is what was annoying me, not his language barrier that is understandable. Don't go putting words into others mouths
I would then love to see you answer questions about your gear in French …. Then maybe you would have a little more understanding that sometimes it’s not a matter of preparation, I know first hand that Cristian knows what he is doing and he is doing his best to answer the questions. But it’s your opinion 🤷🏽♂️. I find it unfair to call a person annoying simply because you don’t like how he answers the questions. But anywho carry on.
Mntap👍
Yamaha it’s not even that special. Most large churches use SD10, SD12,SD8
reaper
Do you guys pay taxes on all this stuff?
WTF they have more and better equipment than most live clubs ... how the fck do they make the money?
Nothing Normal about their setup!! looks like you convinced them to get the wing :P , the cringe on his face whenever you brought up the wing says it all
That guy needs to get off of that piece of garbage Behringer wing. Like all Behringer products they are CRAP!
Million dollar churches with no room for the poor.