The Top 5 Cheapest Ways To Get Lots of Synths Connected To Your DAW
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- You've got a problem: After an acute "GAS" attack, you bought another synth. You managed to sneak it into the house past your wife, but now...how do you hook it up to your computer? You've run out of inputs! In this video I talk about all the different methods of connecting multiple synths to a DAW PC, and go over the options, from cheapest to most expensive.
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0:01 Intro
0:49 How I Started: Cassette Deck
1:08 How I Started: Portastudio
1:20 How I Started: Analog Mixer
1:58 How I Started: Gain Staging
2:46 How I Started: Yamaha MG16XU
3:26 How I Started: Soundcraft 22MTK
4:39 My Current Setup: Behringer X32
6:46 Cheapest: Sound Card
7:11 Built-In USB Audio Interface
9:28 Two Channel Audio Interface
10:29 Patch Bay
12:04 Multichannel Analog Mixer
13:59 Multichannel Digital Mixer
14:15 Multichannel Audio Interface
#Inputs #Synthesizer #DAW
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I am also spoilt with loads of synths and while I love the idea of a desk, I do not have the room now (and found that it didn’t fit with my workflow). So I bought three MOTU 24 IO audio interfaces giving me 72 analogue ins and outs so I can now have all of my synths hardwired into my Cubase mixer. Perfect solution for me.
ditto... 3x MOTU 24 i/o + 3x MOTU MIDI Express AT...
Great use of the MOTU 24. Good gear and good cost value
Exactly ! The Motu 24io's are perfect especially when used along side a bunch of 2408's, and they are REALLY inexpensive !!! Super low lantency plus low cost plus nearly unlimited channel ins and outs. And on top of all that the sound quality is top notch (no matter what anyone tells you !) The only down side seems to be the fact that they're getting pretty old now. Just make sure to leave lots of space between units, (keeping them nice and cool), and you're good !
I have 16 hardware synthesizers going into 2 Behringer 1602 line mixers. I stereo out from each of those into a Focusrite 1802. I also use 2 MOTU 5x5 midi interfaces and the USB midi on a few of the later model synths. It's not the greatest setup but it does work and each synth can be recorded without repatching anything. I love this stuff!
Patchbays are essential. Once you have all the ins & outs connected it makes life a lot easier...just don't forget the hookup diagram.
... and its a nightmare to connect all in's and out's to and from each device to the patchbay. It costs of money for zillion of cables and you're ending with enough cable length to connect earth to the ISS :-) But once this is done, fortunately it's "easy" to use... 🙂
I respectfully disagree. I have an aggregate audio device on my old Mac with 2 8-input audio interfaces, each with their own 8-input ADAT expander. That’s 32 channels (36 if you count the two S/PDIF inputs). This also handles inserts to output gear. All latency is compensated within my DAW. No need for external mixers or patchbays and all my synths are permanently connected.
Old OS?
@@robertkiss7003 yes, Big Sur. And it works well.
arturia 16rig
Adat is also ideal as more inputs are required. I use an RME Fireface 800, which allows x3 ADAT cards, so i have 26 inputs.
Great conversation btw as this is something that all us studio owners ponder on, a lot! 😊
RME ❤🙏👍
Digiface USB and ADAT IO for the win
Back in the late 80's, I had my keyboards and modules connected with MIDI, going into a 12 channel mixer, which was connected to my 16 channel Tascam mixer that output to my Tascam 246 recorder.
Lot's of FUN...
Finally, the video we have been waiting for. I have the Mackie Onyx 24 and love it! It allows me to hook up my synths and allows me to go directly to my PC, DAW setup. Thanks Scott!
I recently purchased an Arturia AudioFuse 16rig and they just released the AudioFuse 8x in/8x out expanders. I also purchased the iConnectivity MioXL for the midi routing. Absolute game changer for my studio!
yeap got the same thing for my studio
And so do I! The best for the money!
Me too, love it, it will hold up for a good amount of time for me to grow into it. I recorded vocals as well with it and the preamp is sounds great and is Sooo quiet it stunned me. Actually, the whole unit it silent. Love it. And flexible? Man!
Aye, got one as well. Pretty solid so far!
The MioXL is fantastic.
My life definitely changed when I discovered Samson patchbays and Iconnectivity MioXL and the Midronome or ERM Multiclock. There’s so many ways to hook all this gear up but the patchbays definitely make connecting everything easier. Great video man.
The problem with mixers is that they usually just have a limited number of inserts for external effects and the integrated effects are usually just of basic quality. I decided therfore to go another way. I bought a USB-controlled patchbay (XPatch-64) and can now use all my synths and external effects in every configuration, I can even switch between true analog insert effects for tracking without any latency and use my hardware effects as sends in my DAW like a VST for mixing and mastering. And I can save and recall each configuration with a mouse click. These USB patchbays are quite expensive, but offer you the greatest flexability.
Finally a video that’s actually NEEDED! Awesome job! There are so many videos out there like “is so and so still worth it in 2024?” or “top things you never knew your daw can do” and it’s just the first ten basic things in the manual 😂 Home studio owners need more vids like this, so thank you.
Scott!!!! Your video is desperately needed by many!!! Thank You.
Great article! Often overlooked, but the Mackie LM3204 rack was a godsend for me. 16 stereo channels, so perfect for rooms of synths. Since most of them lived easy lives in studio racks, can be had for under $450 used.
Patchbays are also great to extend what you have, or to also add in hardware effects where needed vs. just inline.
Great timing! I'm about to redo my mini studio and was wondering what options I had. So much great info and explanations, great job! Note to self "Figure out how to control my studio lights with the super knob on my montage..." 😂
I went with the Presonus Studiolive 32s Series III mixer for my multikeyboard setup in my studio. It's more expensive than the Behringer, but integrates well with Studio One. It also allows you to apply Fat Channel compression and EQ while tracking, then in Studio One you can call up those effects and adjust further if you want to for mixing.
To me, a digital mixer as an audio interface is the only way to go for those who want more than 8 inputs.
I had a Studio Live Series III 24R. When I found out I could get a free NSB 8.8 with a new Studio Live Series III 32R I returned The 24 and got the package deal. Very satisfied. I also have a Behringer XAir R18. I will eventually try to make the SL and the XAir an aggregate and have 50 input channels.
@@ronaldfigura1465wait when and where did you do that??
I got the same mixer but 5-6 months ago damn
Thank you! Great video. Next i sant to know how you connect midi with so many synths?
"You managed to sneak it into the house past your wife"... I have no idea what you mean, Scott 😆😆😆
"What, this old thing? I've had this for years!"
@@ScottsSynthStuffI see that everyone is using the same technics 😂. Once it's with the rest, she usually cannot really spot the new one.
Buy her some shoes. 😇
A good wife knows, that you need all that stuff and she will support that 😉
😂😂
Get a Behringer UMC1820 8 channel audio interface. Throw in a couple of Behringer rack mixers RX1602. Each rack mixer will give you the opportunity to connect 8 stereo instruments to two inputs on the audio interface. So one audio interface and 4 rack mixers allows you to connect 32 stereo inputs and have 4 stereo inputs in your DAW. This of course means that synthesizers share the same audio inputs.
You can then add an additional ADAT interface like Behringer ADA8200 for 8 more audio inputs. The draw back is that sample rate will be limited when connecting the ADA8200 to the UMC1820.
I have 2xUMC18020 and 2xADA8200 as an aggregate device on Mac giving me 32 inputs. I have two RX1602 and an additional analog mixer. Some synthesizers are directly connected to the audio interface and some via one of the mixers. A combination of both mono and stereo synthesizers.
That intro was just like how i like my synths, with the perfect amount of cheeze! immediately subbed!
Those Behringer mixers are awesome. Built in effects (including sidechain) AND those inputs are actually ins/outs. I've got two of the XR18 since it's so affordable and takes up such little space. I got one, liked it so much, got another, and 2x is actually quite manageable. I may very well go to the 32 at some point since it can snake to another input box, but not sure it's worth the extra cost really, especially since a simple stage box costs way more than an XR18).
Great video! I’ve had lots of challenges attempting to get multiple pieces of gear synced and recordable at the same time. Lots of good ideas etc. Thanks! And I have that same t-shirt, in black 😊
ADAT has got to be among the best options for getting a large number of analog inputs separable into your DAW, especially now that relatively inexpensive interfaces are starting to support ADAT expansion
This. I have 2 8-input audio interfaces, each connected to an 8-input ADAT expander. I’m on a Mac, so everything is aggregated together into a 32 channel audio card with 2 2channel S/PDIF inputs also. My DAW sees all this simultaneously and I gain stage each synth. Also, I have inserts for some outboard gear. No separate mixer or clunky patch bay needed.
ADAT ❤
On windows you can use asio4all driver to use multiple interface together.
And I think for the first audio interface, get one with midi is a good investment, and those come with midi will most likely more then 2ch input.
today I really learned something very interesting. thanks Scott.
I have a A&H SQ-5 mixer with MADI interface to connect to my outboard effects (H9000). Works great!
Admittedly a much smaller scale than you are talking about, but I think my Zoom L-12 deserves an honourable mention 😀
Hello Scott.
Once again, a great video from you, in which you also show the possibilities of how to connect many devices inexpensively.
Not everyone can afford expensive studio mixers (whether analogue or digital) and this is often forgotten on many TH-cam channels, that not everyone has a well-filled wallet.
A big compliment for that.
I am lucky that, like you, I can call the Behringer X32 my own.
Yes, it is one of the expensive solutions, but it is the cheapest of them.
The Behringer X32 is currently priced at EUR 2199 in Germany (they reduced the price from EUR 2500 about 2 months after I bought the X32...(annoying).
The price in the US is currently $2999. I don't know if the price has always been like that.
I also have to "count" my money and thought long and hard about whether to get a smaller mixer.
But then I said to myself "Do you want to change the plugs and sockets every time? Set the gain every time because every device has a different output?"
I made my decision quickly and went for the X32.
With the 32 XLR inputs you have peace of mind for a while.
I also have 4x DI-800 8-channel DI boxes from Behringer for all 32 inputs, which luckily aren't that expensive.
These DI boxes can also be used as a "patch bay" if necessary ;)
And the nice thing about the X32 is that I'm not "at the end" when the 32 inputs are full.
The ability to expand the X32 with additional inputs using the Behringer Stage Boxes means you don't have to buy a new mixer straight away.
And cascading the X32, X32 Rack, Stage Boxes etc. really solves the problem very well.
I can recommend this to anyone who wants to buy "expensive" synthesizers:
Think about whether you need the 1 or 2 new synthesizers for € or $1000-2000 each.
Perhaps you can wait a little longer to buy one (yes, I know. That's very hard) and invest the money in a future-proof mixer first.
But for anyone who doesn't have a lot of money, Scott's solutions are a great alternative that works well.
I started out that way too and there's no shame in working that way.
And the "normal" consumers of your music probably wouldn't even notice the difference.
Everyone does it as they can. The main thing is that you have fun with what you do and people can enjoy your music.
Have a nice weekend everyone
And Scott. Keep it up. I love your channel. :)
It's true - the Mac has an "aggregate audio device". There's a caveat though.
The reason for Windows allowing you to using only one is that you need to sync to the audio interface/synth (in this case - the Montage) audio clock. Obviously it can't sync to more than one and one synth's clock might be not run at the exact same frequency as the other one (i.e. one might be somewhere around 44101Hz, another one at 44098).
Mac circumvents this via... resampling those synth outputs to its own clock. Yup. If you use an aggregate audio device you forfeit the sample-accurate audio.
I hope this is clear?
May I request a video on how to keep all your gear clean? Especially mixers. You won't believe how many videos I see on YT with studio gear, and it looks like they never clean their gear. Dust everywhere and that only ruins gear in time. Maybe include room temp and carpet or Hardwood for other reasons of dust and cleanliness. Also maybe add the best way to use power strips to connect your gear. I have my strips mounted on the rear of my stands for each 3-4 tiers and then several others on the wall at desk height. Hope Scott reads tis and comes up with something on the "How to keep your studio gear clean and connected" :)
I keep everything under dust covers (when not shooting a video). This video has a link to the dust covers I use.
There are some very good Audiointerfaces with ADAT. I´m running all of my Gear throw an old Mackie 32/8 Bus Pult into a RME Fireface, expanded with a Behringer Ultragain.
I have 27 guitars, which obviously doesn’t cause the same headache. But I wanted to have a guitar modeller (Kemper), a synth (MODX), drum machine, vocal processor etc, connected for live streaming. The simplest method is a mixer. Mine doesn’t have a built in interface, so I go out of the mixer, in stereo, into a Focusrite interface. Works well for me.
Good video! I only have a couple synths and a line 6 pod go for guitar. Just a hobbyist and I only had to spend $150 US on a Mackie 12 channel mixer. I got a 4 channel interface free with credit card reward points.
Lovely, Thanks!
My word, I had a portastudio AND an Ensoniq Mirage! Heady Days!
Thanks Scott for a great video. I always follow your videos and it gives me great pleasure. I had the same problem a few years ago when I started building my studio. Too many synths and very difficult to sneak them down to the studio without my wife discovering 🤣I solved the input problem by buying 2 Ferrofish Pulse 16 for 32 channels. I connected these to an RME Digiface USB. It costs a lot, but god it's nice to be able to have everything connected all the time. I have heard that you can connect 3 Digiface and 6 Ferrofish to the same computer (Mac) for a total of 96 channels. Of course, the wife is told that it will never happen 😇 I agree with neatfreak 2180, iConnectivity MioXL is incredibly good for the MIDI side. I have two of them.
I also have the mioXL, I did a video on it some time back.
Great information Scott... thanks for sharing!
great video! now I am using a Tascam Model 24 and it is working fine for me.
One thing I would say that is an advantage by having something like focusrite claret 8 pre with eight individual extra ADAT inputs
is that you don’t have as many cables as you do when you are using patch, bays ( 50% less cables )
and external mixers and a byproduct of that is less noise
That way each synth gets a direct route with a decent-ish preamp straight into the computer
It’s raw But then you have the whole canvas to work with when processing in the box
Great video Scott 👍🏻 My take: RME DigiFace USB has 4 ADATs so I have 4 Behringer ADA8200 hooked to it = 32 channels for ca. $1400. in total. Well the only drawback is that even in a DAWless setup you always need to boot the PC to get things going (you can then shut the PC down right after and it will be running … ) 🤷🏻♂️
I use a Focusrite scarlett 18i20 audio interface and expanded it with Adat and another behringer preamps.
Because its controlled over software I can control it over midi.
Means with one switch or button I can change my entire routing. Effects and Synths can be chained in different order with one click.
My Setup contains a Casio WK3000, BossRC505, Circuit Tracks and Rhythm, Guitar Multi effect Pedal/Preamp and some mics.
I have a lot of stereo channels to fill. 😏
Because I do Live Looping I often wanna change the order of my devices. Sometimes I wanna sample something from the Rhythm into the loopstation and sometimes I wanna sidechain my loopstation through the rhythm. So with one click I can change the order what is awesome for live performancing and its far less expensive then getting a big digital mixer.
I use Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 4th Gen USB, with Analog Mix with 16 Keyboards, with DAW using the Keyboards USB interface, it works for me on Studio 1, very Cheap and low noise mixer, Behringer RX1602 V2(This works great you chain them). He did not mention MIDI, use iConnectivity mioXL 8x12 MIDI Interface, which is great for connecting lots of MIDI devices.
Big yes on the patch bay. Also useful is a MIDI patch bay such as the Ensoniq KMX-16. You can connect 16 MIDI devices, which is useful if you want to control a synth that has very few keys (or none), with another synth that has a better keyboard such as an 88 key hammer action controller. Also, you can take a MIDI track in your DAW and route it to one synth or another and then record the audio out.
I got a Conductive Labs MRCC. Changed my (synth) life.
I just checked it out. That looks fantastic! And I see where you can connect two together if you need more jacks. It looks very much like my ensoniq but with a lot more connectivity for newer protocols such as USB. Thanks for the tip. I notice their dealer in Portland has a wide selection of brands available including Buchla. I will to look in greater detail. Could be dangerous.
I use a mioXL: th-cam.com/video/9vdHKQp-4Rk/w-d-xo.html
If I were going to get a 32 channel digital mixer I think I'd get the PreSonus StudioLive 32SX over the Behringer. I like the FlexMixes and it looks beautiful besides.
Though I think it's a tough call between that and getting two Arturia AudioFuse 16Rig interfaces chained together. The PreSonus gives you more for about the same price with its Fat Channel processing and a hands-on, physical interface. But if you're trying to save space then the AudioFuse would help you do that. Often you only need to set the volume levels and forget it anyway. The only thing that would bother me about the AudioFuse is that it apparently requires a software app to do the signal routing.
You just spelled out exactly why I am Mac based. With the Audio MIDI Setup app, you can set up any kind of mixer and audio interface configuration you want. If I wanted to, I could buy a bunch of cheap(er) four or eight channel audio interfaces and combine them into one virtual interface. Or, I could purchase tow of something like that Behringer digital mixer/interface and combine them. Or I could have a mix of all kinds of different interfaces. Also, since Thunderbolt is native to the Mac, I could get higher-end thunderbolt interfaces that take advantage of the much faster data rate of Thunderbolt. I had a windows machine for a while and really did not like it. It was a constant stream of driver clashes, conflicts, and things that just plain did not work correctly. I was constantly chasing problems and having to really learn how to dive deep into the long myriad of disparate configuration dialogs spread throughout Windows, many of which were hidden many layers deep inside. Never again. My windows machine has been wiped and reconfigured as a file server and a rendering node, nothing else.
My issue is space. Not that our house is small, but I have my synths in the living room, which is also my work-from-home space. I found out that this works better for me than some other, dedicated room.
In the 1990s I bought a Yamaha AN1x, and Yamaha EX5, and a Yamaha 01V mixer. The latter didn't work out as planned. It's big, it was very quickly superseded by the more capable 01V96, and its value is a now a fraction of what I paid for it. I still have it, though, because of the sunk cost fallacy.
Because of the space limitation, all my other synths are 19 inch rack modules. And I think I'm not the only one who thinks this way, because the modules are often more expensive than their keyboard counterparts on eBay and Reverb. One of the few where this isn't the case is the Jupiter 8 and the MKS-80, although they're not identical.
I ended up with a MOTU 24Ai, and recently acquired another one. All second hand, or new in box. This gives me 48 analogue inputs in a mere 2U of rack space. It also uses proper IEC C14 connectors, so you don't have to muck around with external power supplies. And it's a universal power supply, so you can buy them from wherever they are cheapest. The second one comes from Canada, while I live in Europe.
The downside is that you need special DB25-to-eight-TRS-jack snake cables, and those are pretty pricey. But all in all, including import duties, value added tax, and snake cables, I think I spent about €2000 for those 48 inputs. There are audio interfaces out there that cost a multiple of that, for fewer inputs.
I've considered a lot of alternatives, including the rack version of the Behringer X32. Eventually, after literally years, I decided upon the MOTU. There was a problem for a while to actually get these units, due to the global chip shortage of a few years ago. Plus, I ran into the ASIO problem.
There is a tool out there, which you can find in the Microsoft app store, called DS WASAPI ASIO router, that will solve that. If nothing else, I need it because I also have a Roland TR-8S, and I don't want to waste precious audio inputs, when this thing has USB audio.
This DS WASAPI ASIO router is not free, and costs €25 here in Europe. The evaluation period expired before I had a chance to fully test it. But the point is that there are ways to get around Windows' quite frankly rubbish support for professional audio.
Macs allow you to use a different interface for input vs output. They also allow you to combine multiple interfaces that behave like a single I/o device (aggregate interface).
This ability is why I switched to Mac from pc. Made getting my hardware for both keyboards and guitar modelers to play well with each other 100x easier.
Buying second hand older professional audio interfaces is also a way to do this. Mostly the older firewire stuff goes for pretty much nothing, firewire is old sure, but as a IO device that has 32 channels or more, it still will work fine. Would need to be a bit computer sawvy though, firewire is a problem in newer os'es so you might need to get your hands dirty and do some research. I remember i got a focusrite liquid 56 interface a few years back, it worked perfectly, I expanded inputs with a digimax d8 via adat which gave me an additional 4 stereo inputs. I've later upgraded to a new focusrite 18i20 card which is amazing and is priced reasonably, also works great with the digimax d8.
I went with Motu AVB interfaces. As soon as you need more than 18 inputs. You buy a Motu 1248 or any other Motu interface with thunderbolt interface, AVB and the set of audio inputs you need (they have a lot of models with various type and number of I/O). Then on your synth rack you buy Motu 24Ai that give you 24 line level inputs that you can send through AVB with a CAT6 cable to the other Motu interface connected to the computer through thunderbolt. In my case, I have one Motu 828 ES with a Motu 24Ai and it gives me a total of 32 line level inputs, 2 microphones inputs with phantom power, 8 line level outputs, 4 monitors outputs, 2 headphones outputs. All this for about $2000. And I have 5 sets of ADAT input and outputs so I can potentially add 40 analog inputs and 40 analog outputs by using ADAT preamps and output modules. I also have the possibility to add an AVB switch and add more Motu 24Ai.
Just read up on AVB capabilities. Impressive! Thank you!
Love my Sonic Core Xite-1 DSP interface connected to a Sonic Core A16 Ultra (24bit/96kHz 16 i/o) and using lightpipe going to an Alesis ADAT AI3 for an additional 8 i/o. Can still have more io if needed. Plus it's a DSP platform with tons of routing, effects, synths and mixers built in. Have had it for 15 years now since it was released and still rock solid. Just a single HDMI cable goes from the Xite-1 to a small daughter card in the PC.
Get a Yamaha O2R second hand.
They’re 200 quid used, make sure you get one with a meter bridge though as you can see all your levels.
Get a couple of ADAT cards with optical outs and run those digital outs into a couple of linked USB motu 828 mk2’s.
You can run one of the motu’s via FireWire to your computer for 16 digital channels in real time.
Enjoy!
Behringer rx1602 v2 can also be a good option for 110€/120$...
- 8 Stereo inputs
- stage gaging @ each stereo inputs + Mute / pad...
No eq but 8 synths can be pluged an take only a stereo input on your harware audio card.
Got a studiolive 16/4/8 but never inputs enough ;)
The best is RME Fireface with Ferrofish extension via ADAT
and RME M-32 Pro extension via MADI for 60 channels
but these days I'd probably go with that new Arturia 16rig with two x8 In ADAT expanders. That should get up to 32 channels in a nice compact space.
Thanks for great input. I believe one option - with great price/performance - is missing for the purpose of having a lot of synths connected to the audio interface (and the computer/DAW) and to always be ready-to-record: simply use one, two, three or more rack line mixers, such as the clean Behringer RX-1602 V2. Each mixer provides 16 inputs. Your main outs (L/R) from your last mixer in your chain goes into two of these inputs on the second mixer (and so on); and the last mixer main outputs connects to your audio interface. Cannot think of any cheaper and yet such a good/clean way of connecting multiple synths 👋
Daisy chaining mixers like that adds noise - each mixer in the chain adds a bit more noise. It's better to have a set of mixers that all connect to a single submixer, which then feeds the input. That way, the most number of mixers the signal traverses is two.
Scott, one thing why I'am also using a digital mixer (X32) is the option to record/monitor all of my synths seperately at once at different tracks in my DAW and apply (real-time) effects etc.
Wow !!! Looks like a synth store! Awesome video, thanks Scott!
Blown away by your knowledge. Thank you!
...started with a cassette recorder either when I was a 4year old boy. Later, in the middle of the nineties, I got me a Behringer mixing desk for my first synth stuff still recording with a cassette tape deck improving to an audio cd recorder a few years later 😜
...as time goes by 😇
Exactly this is what I needed to watch. Thanks for sharing
Welcome to my world. Been working with a live setup since 1996. Enough MOTU MIDI Express 128 interfaces (10x) and five Behringer X32R/S16 and an Yamaha LS9-32 working with DANTE to my Mac. Total control. :)
Btw.. You won't get Midas components on the X32, then you have to get the M32 FYI.
With Macs you can create an Aggregate device using multiple interfaces.
Talking about gain staging you made my day. 😊
Now I know why I keep 20 synths plugged in and half normalizing is wrong.
Thanks. Very informative and helpful video.
Wow Scott just learned you are not a Mac user. I have 13 hardware synths all ready to go. Mackie 1202 Roland VM 3100 plus a apollo 8 black face and a apollo twin. Covers my needs only need 2 or 3 live mics. Put my older less hi fi synths thru the 1202, by the way its a use 1990 something model. Thanks for the Video sprinkle in a few more plane videos. I really dug them.
Thanks! I have a whole channel of them: www.youtube.com/@CanardBoulevard
@@ScottsSynthStuff I will check them out. I loved the sweet-water trip video.
Nice sum-up, but I miss the Midi and Master keyboard part which is also a very difficult topic to get the correct routing done.
Great video as always Scott.
I do have a couple of suggestions in addition to what you mentioned. One is the older Mackie Onyx Firewire mixers - still really good, you can get them used in really good shape for not much money and you can get firewire cards for PCs pretty cheap. Ironically, since Firewire was first for Macs it's actually easier to hook up firewire mixers to PCs that can take firewire cards. It can be done with newer Macs but takes several steps of adapters.
The other thing I'll mention is that some fairly basic 8 channel interfaces can be expanded via ADAT to 16 or even 24 channels. Once you have a USB interface that has 8 channels input plus ADAT you can buy older interfaces for firewire that work perfectly fine for ADAT and instantly expands you inputs pretty cheaply. A studio I helped a friend put together has a Behringer USB 8 channel interface and an older Presonus firewire interface ADAT connected - the two interfaces cost about $600 all in.
This is an important video for synth lovers. One option you forgot to mention, though, is ADAT: you can get an audio interface with a limited number of inputs that supports ADAT. Once you run out of inputs, you can then add additional digital inputs by adding an ADAT interface on top of it and plugging that into your interface. This way, you can upgrade to a higher input count when the need arises (i. e. after buying more synths).
Myself, I was in the market for a suitable solution not too long ago, coming from an M-Audio M-Track Eight Interface with eight mono inputs. After much deliberation, I decided to put a Behringer RX1602 V2 analog mixer into my rack, which adds 16 mono inputs. The analog outputs then go into my M-Track Eight (just as you describe) and take up two of its inputs, leaving me with six additional ones (-> 22 mono inputs in total). I also have an SSL 12 interface for recording vocals, and that supports ADAT, so I might switch to that at some point, should the need arise.
good info, i use (2) Scarlett 18i20, (one in slave through ADAT). I also use that in conjunction with a second laptop with identical setup, 32 live channels for $1600. i plan on getting a patchbay and a mixer, but for different experiments..
You didn't mention 'digital stage boxes', which could be flug in a far corner of the studio.
The X32 is equiped with swappable expansion cards for connecting to other multi-channel audio networking via USB, ADAT, MADI and Dante protocols, in addition to the onboard ULTRANET and AES50 connectivity.
On the Mac it is called creating an aggregate interface.
Thank you. I couldn't remember the name of it while I was making this video!
Yup. It comes with a caveat though. It resamples the audio as it cannot sync to the digital audio clocks of all synths and one synth's 44.1kHz might differ from 44.1kHz of another one.
Aggregate Device
@@JanMichalSzulew right. If you aggregate devices (I have 4 currently) one needs to be the master clock. Therefore I cannot connect my V-synth through S/PDIF as it also expects to be the master clock. As you say, these clocks are not identical, resulting in clicks and pops. But I still have 32 channels right now, which suffices for my needs.
@@crhkrebs but doesn't the aggregate device simply say "well, I'll pretend I accept your "master clock", but I'll just resample you anyway according to my own clock". I don't have a Mac, but I heard that's how it works. It avoid clicks and pops but you forfeit sample-accurate audio (which, I believe, is a non-issue in the proverbial 99.99% of the case?)
Check out the Arturia 16RIG. Lots of ins/outs (+adat expandability) and very good routing options. Top notch audio quality at a competitive price.
I have a pretty simple setup for my little "home studio" that is reflective of my needs. Unlike you, I only have two keyboards, both Yamaha. I have my MODX7 and a CS1x. There is about twenty years separating them in terms of technology and connectivity. I got the MODX in 2019 from Pro Music Alaska, a music store here owned by an old college buddy. He helped me with everything I needed to get my keyboards set up. I have a Tascam audio interface and an eight-channel mixer. The MODX was much easier to connect because of the USB connection, but I had to use a MIDI connection for the CS1x. I had another old friend of mine build a two-tier keyboard/music desk. The two keyboards are on platforms that pull out, one on top of the other, and the top of the thing has my monitors and the small dedicated computer for my music production, along with the monitor for that.
And there is a whole spaghetti pile of cables and connections going this way and that on the top of the stand.
But it works for me, more or less.
Anyway, this was a great video as always!
I use a UAD twin with an 8 channel digital break out box. pretty cost efficient and sounds excellent
For any on a budget (like me!), check out the Allen & Heath CQ-20B. I bought one for my blues band (now rip) as a live mixer/recorder, moving up from a Soundcraft 12Mkt, which still sounded good for live use as a bar band. The CQ, being digital, sports a 24x24 (@48kHz), or 16x16 (@96kHz) USB. It's awesome. I'm supporting a Modx+, BARP GM2600, Korg Wavestate, Arturia Analog Lab and a bunch of East/West symphonic samples. Great mixer & interface.
The 1616m was my first interface. Still got it somewhere.
That intro..... :O
Nice I came here from canard boulevard and I totally dig the humor and information. Thank you for sharing your life with us all online!
Do you have more channels?
I wish you’d mentioned submixers, I’m on a really small space experimenting with “Moukey” 6 channel mixers feeding in to a rx1602. The 1602 provides a headphone out that goes to my bass amp, ( zero latency monitoring is key) and also an effect return for a reverb pedal, as well as the main out to the interface. So I can play the hw synths + iPad synths Dawless, that is very important for me.
And the lights go down.. 🤣in the city😄 funny
I picked up the rack mount Presonus 32R. 32 In and you get 16 out and Main out. You can control it from an iPhone or iPad. I also use a $128 Behringer rack mixer for random extra stuff. Total of 48 In. Solved my issues.
At Sweetwater for $ 1700, so not "thousands of dollars"
On Windows you can install Asio4All, which is an Asio Wrapper. In it you can combine several Asio devices to one. The con is Asio4All uses its own drivers which is of course not optimized with each hardware device. And afaik there is no way to do sample acurate sync unless you have 2 devices that can sync via an adat optical cable or coax wordclock.
I thought about mentioning this, but Asio4all causes so many latency and stability problems (at least for me) , I've never been able to get it to work successfully and consistently.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Ya I agree. I have also tried using it eg. together with a soundblaster and a small 2ch Presonus and also throw it away, and today the soundblaster drivers is actually ok latency wise alone, but the Asio4All totally hampered the Presonus performance, so I decided it was not worth paying for. Windows has always been kinda poorly coded with how it handles multimedia devices. Had major issues getting my Kronos USB to play along until I found out the culpit was how Windows handles the different multimedia devices. People should delete all the devices they don’t actively use. If you have more than 10 devices installed things go haywire and you manually have to edit the matrix adressing each device in the registry, which is not for the faint of heart unless you know what your doing
I have successfully used asio4all with a bunch of Roland Boutiques and a multichannel audio interface. Have to increase latency/buffer due to my old laptop and mixer is 24/24. I enable a subset of ins and outs and seems better. Boutiques with a 2x2 is great. Probably USB 2 and old computer to blame not asio4all.
Im still have this Emu Interface. Its still pretty good. I connected a Korg 168RC Mixer over Adat to connect my Synths to my DAW.
Great advice and options for multi synth connections. Do you have a video of MY mind boggling method of the patch bay option?
Thank you
The more problem I see is reaching all of those synths fast enough so you don't lose your "creative momentum" and while doing that tour from synth to synth your hands start to hurt as an additional bonus, so here I would say is more than appropriate the old saying: "Less is more." It looks great, but from a creative stand point a total nightmare if you really want to create something complex and larger than life. It must be some kind of mathematical formula for this situations, "when more becomes less".
A used Motu 828x around 200/300 bucks should do wonders for most people. 8 analog in/outs, 2 mic/guitar in, 16 digital channels. Built in mixer with VERY GOOD reverb, EQ and lot's of other stuff.
Great. I already have a small Yamaha mixer (MG12/4FX), a Behringer mixer (MX1604A), and you just made a sale on the PX3000 patchbay 😀
The second I started watching this brilliant and needed video, I recognised the first note played on the first synth at the beginning. I racked my brains knowing it was the intro from a JMJ album track. Finally I found it. It's the exact key he uses....
The track and album... (check if you like): Oxygene 7-13 Track 7.
Dealing with the wiring mess can be a chore, especially when having to trace an intermittent audio or MIDI line. I bought a bag of colored nylon tiewraps that have a tag to stick a label on and put them at the plug end of every cable. I labeled where they go so I can keep track of what it plugs into. For limited space, line level mixers are useful for keyboard rigs as they usually have all stereo inputs. Fine if you do not need effects sends or use microphones.
I lost most of my life thinking to be an engineer, so I didn't play for years and I didn't buy keyboards anymore. Now that I am back on stage (too much fun) I use a full vst solution. Computer on stage included. This means only midi controllers (cheaper) and dozens of plugins, two stereo outputs on an audio board. A nice host (GigPerformer) and you are done.
The ruoting, gainstaging, midi patching, playing, recording is purely software.
I know, this way I lose control on real pots and sliders. True.
But I play live with a mellotron, a moog modular, a hammond and a Jupiter8 (and many others). Things that I couldn't buy today.
Thank you for the great amd informative video! I had the same issue and went slightly a different road. I have 5! Behringer RX1602 line mixers. One of them gets all the outputs of the other 4 and from there I go to some speakers (for rehearsal purposes, not recording). I guess I could have used a patch bay too. I also have a Arturia 16Rig where I connect my keys I record mostly. It’s not an ideal situation but it’s ok. I recently bought a Radial Key Largo for live purposes so I can connect my laptop to it without having to bring an Audio Interface and it’s fantastic. It also solved a grounding issue I had in my room which I was never able to solve. It’s not the cheapest but worth the investment for me. I play more live than I record but I’d love an X32, it’s just a bit too pricey for my situation.
I am literally waiting for delivery of a Behringer pre-amp to expand the number of inputs on my Scarlett 18i8 from 8 to 16 using the optical (ADAT) jack. Fingers crossed that it will work as expected. But yes, unplugged synths do not get used.
This is what I have and the Behringer works like a charm.
@@crhkrebs This setup is also working for me now (at 44.1k, which is fine for me).
@@JoeJohnston-taskboy I use 44.1kHz too.
While I have an expensive multichannel audio interface (Steinberg AXR4U), there are cheaper [than $3k and $4k] options. For example, the Steinberg UR816C (16 ins/outs) costs about $600.
I am “down to” 12 synths (currently; still selling and buying to refine the “perfect set”!) but also use a lot of outboard gear and need room for folks to plug in their instruments, microphones, &c. My solution (in addition to the MioXL ;) is a 32-channel passive summing mixer for most of the synths (since I can gain-stage the volume controls and then mix via MIDI volume) but then be able to patch in my “special children” when I need outboard processing or a full mixer channel or whatever. I do not understand why passive summing mixers are not wildly popular for this application, but I plan to build more since they seem to be so rare!
I use an 02r96 into a fireface 800.
Plenty of inputs plus more analog & Adat options. Mine sits in an Argosy console and 14 synths are permanently connected. Plus also 2track DAT & Cassette (!). Not forgetting outboard returns into channels, for recording into logic/PT. It’s a great system that really works well. The RME provides master clock to the 02r96.
These desks are often criticised for their hard eq. On the original 02r, I’d have to agree. But not so with the 24bit 96k mk2. That’s said, I belive in clean unadulterated sound.
I can’t recommend these old Yamaha desks enough because they are astonishingly cheap these days. I’ve seen original 02rs selling for £150 ($200). It’s worth it for the noise gate and compressor on every chennel !!
I would recommend the Presonus StudioLive desks or MOTU interfaces. Both have the open standard AVB Ethernet interface, so you can connect a Presonus Desk to their stage box, or one of the MOTO AVB interfaces, such as 24Ai or 16A, and add extra channels. The MOTUs also have ADAT IO as additional channels with some suitable interfaces. It takes a bit of head scratching to get everything to play nicely, but you can get up to 128 channels simultaneous into your DAW. Not the budget option, but way cheaper per channel than a lot of other solutions. It will allow gain staging, and EQ on each channel (by virtual mixer on the MOTU and stagebox)
I love the X32, the final solution for my little studio too after nearly the same history like you had. Your next video about midi? 😂
One other interface way:
Four Behringer ADA8200 preamps/converters (these do 8 channels of D to A and A to D via ADAT)
Then add an RME Digiface USB
You now have 32 in/32 out channels over one USB connection, using Midas preamps and ultra-reliable RME drivers (and all the flexibility that TotalMix offers).
Way cheaper than $3000 (~$1640 plus tax)
This system is usable with patch bays if you want (or you can use the TotalMix routing with different routing presets saved)
I currently use an old RME Fireface with a Creamware A16 ADAT, it works like a charm...as long as I have access to Firewire/thunderbolt 3 😁
Oh and patchbays are great, I want a second one!!
Wow, the Montage M superknob is more powerful than ever! 😉
I have roughly as many synths as you - but a very cheap connectivity solution. Having no space for a huge mixer, I use three cheap 19“ Behringer RX1602 Mk.2 going into a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 audio interface connected to my Mac. The Behringers have volume & pan control plus FX send per channel; they are pretty noiseless for my old ears.
I don‘t think that synths require full-fledged mixers with all those features useful for vocals, drums, guitars etc. The sound is made on the synth itself.
The only minor problem is the position of outboard FX in the signal flow. I came up with this:
RX1606 #1 and #2 => RX 1603 #3 (=> FX send to my main FX units in series) => Scarlett => Mac.
I.e., on the audio interface I need one stereo channel for the RX 1602 #3 and one for the FX output. That‘s it. Not perfect but workable.
Thank you, Scott. You offered a lot of really great solutions. - I am trying to have the option to record midi simultaneously. Would you recommend using the midi through option or a dedicated interface? - signal flow is complicated logic for me. So I want the get this right. My space is cramped and I can't be plugging in and unplugging constantly. Needs to be " ready to go". - I will watch your other videos.
Just to mention that with the ASIO4ALL you can have multi sound interfaces active all at once in Windows 11. I do it with my MODX6+ and my SSL12 (and Arturia MiniFuse 4) without any problems 👍
I like to have everything ready to play at all times, too lazy to re-patch cables. An X32 like you, two sub-mixers and an old JLC MIDI patchbay seem to be working so far. I'm out of channels now 'though. In my relatively small studio (certainly smaller than yours), there are 100 cables running around. AC, audio, MIDI and USB, it adds up quickly.
Thank you x
I had a similar journey. Started with a Fostex X15 4 track cassette and gradually moved up through an analogue mixer to my current Clarett 8 pre with an extra 8 channels via adat (Behringer add on). I’m Mac based so I can have some of my USB based synths in a composite audio interface. Only issue is some synths - like my Roland Jupiter XM don’t like USB hubs if used with the proprietary driver. Would be good to have a video on how you link all the midi side up. Great synth collection by the way.