Laminated vs solid wood guitars how to tell the difference by Randy Schartiger
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- There are many ways to skin this cat, in this video I show how "I" determine solid wood guitars from laminated guitars top, back and sides. This method has worked for me for over 40 years, you can inspect your own guitars to assure yourself if they are solid or laminated. Thanks for viewing!
Yep! That's how to tell. Regarding the top (I know you know this) you can also look at the grain lines around the edge of the sound hole. Laminations will show up there too. Good job my friend.
Yes! I should have mentioned this! Too much to remember when the camera is rolling lol Many thanks Jerry!
The most weirdest intro I ever seen
@Guss Luna its really funny what are you taking about lol
Ya 😂
The mark of genius 😂
Look in the sound hole, you can see the end grain on the top
Man you are so much nicer than I am. If I am asked this question, my reply is, 'You can't HEAR the difference?'
Randy, I really enjoy your practical approach to working on guitars and thanks for all the great content.
0:00 my history teacher when he catches me on my phone in the middle of class
LOL! no doubt gets your attention! :P thanks for watching!
Thank you for this, but please be aware that Laser pens can seriously damage camera sensors.
And it hurt people's eyes too..sorry but super annoying, almost didn't watch cuz of it. Otherwise knowledgeable and good info...there are ads 3 times during this vid tho.
Jim K. wtf just turn the brightness down or something lol
@@jimk.298 jim the laser cant go through your screen you wont go blind
Yes...I will definitely do all this next time I visit Guitar Center. ...mirrors, flashlight....camera.
Thanks..this is critical information for all guitar buyers and owners to have.
It's definitely a good thing to know, makes you want to check your own to be sure of what it is.
my friend thanks for the lesson today I realize something is wrong with some guitars when I look thru the sound hole and now I understand why. here in Puerto Rico they are selling laminated guitars like bread, to expensive and the persons don't realize what they are getting for that price, I make mistakes buying ones but learned from them now I'm more selective and goes with my budget.
again thanks for your help.
you are the one.
Thanks for your comment my friend! Yes it definitely pays to know what you're paying for and know if you're getting skinned or not. Laminate is not necessarily a bad thing but if you're paying for a solid wood guitar then that's what you expect to receive.
I have a American made Martin DX1R model in my guitar collection and it has laminate sides and back but the top has solid spruce, in fact I have never seen or heard of a laminate top Martin, maybe other brand guitars have em. The cost of a laminate is cut in half at least but it has the sound of Martin for sure in my opinion . Thanks Randy
It's pretty amazing how well some Laminated guitars sound! HPL and a good quality wood sometimes can really be surprising! Thanks for having a look mate!
great video and very useful information, Randy! ThxUp!
Thank you much my brother!
Yep good info man! wood grain front and back match is good!
Yessir, it's always a good thing to see! Thanks man!
+Randy Schartiger ... I just came across your channel today and I'm really enjoying your videos. You know what you're talking about and express it well. You have great advice and man are you cool! All the best Randy!
Thanks my new friend and welcome aboard! Very much appreciated!
How true. There's more than one way to skin an Earle.... Great info Randy.l!
Randy, always enjoy your videos. As mentioned in the comments...laminate does not mean bad, low quality instruments. The gypsy jazz guitars of extreme quality are 3 piece laminates, very light weight and powerful in sound.
I was just replying to another comment about how HPL and/or good quality woods used can sometimes be surprisingly acceptable and shocking even! Thanks for tuning in mate much appreciated!
Even fiber guitars ...sound awesome! Without any wood...
As long as getting the sound vibrates well ...the Physics of it...
It's a good point that tell straight if a guitar is laminated or solid built but it is completely possible to laminate a full sheet of laminated wood that will looks like a solid wood.
true, but you can still tell if it's laminated or solid by whether or not signatures of the grain on each side match up or not. thanks for viewing!
Thank you! Just bought a guitar and was wondering how to tell the difference. Simple, but accurate!
The intro- instant sub
Very cool. Thanks, Randy. I'll check my grains.
Very informative! That's really interesting about the grain. Cool stuff!
Thank you for this, Randy!
Great subject Randy! Maybe do one on one piece v scarf joint neck headstocks and the part where the neck meets the body. Also the different ways to attach a neck to a body. Love ya man! Thankz
Wow... I really learned a lot here! Thanks Randy! They need a BlueRidge BR-549! Remember?
hahaha I had forgot about that, Junior Samples BR549! lol Thanks Ed!
Randy Schartiger Yep!
That's so great to know those informations! Appreciated!
thank you my friend and thanks for checking out my videos!
Very interesting! Thanks Randy
Gonna have a look at mine now, check it out, hold on 😳
haha I figured this video might encourage folks to have a closer look at their own guitars. Thanks Simon! Hold on! =D
Another great info installment. Love these....
John s thanks my friend and thanks for viewing, more to come! :D
The easiest way to tell if the top is solid is to look at the edge of the top at the sound hole. If the grain has vertical lines going all the way through the wood, it’s a solid top.
Good video, My guitar is solid cardboard all the lines match right up!!!!)))🎸🎸🎸👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼😊Hold on!!!
hahaha hold on! Solid cardboard I bet it's got a nice boxy sound! lol
Another good one brother! Good idea to look in the hole if you're buying a guitar! Rock on!
Hey thanks for stopping in brother! yes yes it's a good idea to look into the hole anytime! :D Cheers my brother!
Nice job with the camera work! Thanks
You can also look at the specs from Blueridge, saves a lot of time.
Arnolds new vintage...TH-cam
Great information, I've checked mine out to be sure of what I have. Just a couple of lammies the rest are solid. I liked the scalloped braces in your Blueridge. Have a great eveing:D!
I wish I'd had a lammie here to show but probably wouldn't mattered because they all don't look the same. Yeah those braces were scalloped when I got the guitar, it's an unbelievably powerful guitar! It can easily overpower both of my Martins and sounds good but I like the Martins tone better. Thanks for having a look! Hold on! :D
Your vids are addicting.
I'm not 100% in agreement here because I have heard that it is possible to bookmatch laminates. I don't see that as being so difficult. However, my question is, why bother because it seems the savings would be little because of the increased time, tooling and labor. I also know that the Japanese made and used laminate bracing and I wonder if the two have been confused. I'm open to interpretation and opinions but I sure would like to know for certain one day.
Okay!!! That was informative!!! I have some of each! Ha...the Martin D18 is solid all round, back top & sides. The Guild has a laminated back but the top is solid. Same with the old Framus.
I have to talk to you tho'....the issue: skin a cat! Every day when I come in here to sit & watch, I have three of 'em follow me in. One on my lap, one on the back of the chair & one on the windowsill all watching. Big Randy & Q fans...
Now...do you know how many furry little jaws dropped & eyes popped when you said 'skin a cat'? We need to discuss this...*wink* Might I suggest skin a rat? A turkey? A mongoose? Anything but a cat?? LOL!
Thanks for another great video Randy...I never thought to check my guitars for this before, can you believe?
Hope your weather is as nice as ours...just July in October!
~G~ ♪
haha I will try my best to keep that in mind! I sure don't want to offend any of out furry little friends! Q-ball gets on my lap or wraps herself around the back of my neck when I'm in here answering comments and it always reminds me of how much like a cat she is, Zeke also does a lot of things cats do! lol
Our weather here was just gorgeous until yesterday, it started raining an rained all day and night, today is very cold compared to before but I'm not complaining one bit! :)
Great video, as usual!!!
Thank you my friend much appreciated!
As usual, Great Info Randy .... right on pal .. :)
Thanks much Sam! Cheers my brother!
Another great video, Randy. This is great info to know. I'll be checking out all my guitars for the signs that you just mentioned. I'm really curious to know now. Thanks, my friend. I really like having this kind of knowledge. The more of your vids I watch, the more I'm learning and I love that. Wish I knew all that I know now back when I first got interested in guitar. Better choices would definitely have been made on my part. Thanks again, my friend.
You're welcome brother, I'm very happy yo hear my videos are helpful! A lot of stores and individuals that sell guitars think you the buyer, doesn't know any of this kind of info, some are honest about it and some as you know are not. Thanks again for your support my friend it is greatly appreciated!
But what's the difference between laminate and plywood? Could you tell it please?
Same thing.
I love your little singing dog.
finally the myth decoded thank you for very useful and in your face explanation
Great info, I was wondering how you can tell! Here's my other question- if it's a laminate guitar, what kind of wood is underneath? I can't find this anywhere! Thanks!😍
I think the best way to find this out would do some research on the model online. Check out some forums and try to find the building materials
Your voice and way of talk is so soothing..
Nice information..
New subscriber here👍🏻
i was told it is not certifiable because they can match plywood veneers back and face with similar grain patterns. I'm having this problem too. I found a knot on one side and the same knot on the inside.
and in the case of stain being really dark and hard to see the grain well, hear the sharp end of a needle to pin and touch it in an out of the way spot... If it melts........... works on a bone vis plastic nut & saddle and so on.... then theres the Serial number sites that tell when & what they are made of.... and theres Randy's method too.....Gettem Boy! I've used all of these since my first guitar in1962...
so basically visually match the inside grain with the outside grain (?)
Great informative video, Randy! Thumbs up :-) Have a wonderful Friday and weekend ahead .....Jenny ♫
Many thanks Jenny my friend for checking it out! Wishing you a rockin weekend ahead as well! Cheers!
Great video.....good explanation.
thanks David! and thanks for checking out my videos!
Question.. Isn't it possible that even with that method for examining, it could still be laminate since they could cut the outside layers of the top and sides from the same piece of wood so grains would still match from inside and out?
Bro, I laughed so hard with that intro. Why do I see myself in your shoes 20 years from now? Happy Happy Happy. Ok, gonna check out my Cort Earth series now...I thought it was all solid wood but tunes out the back and sides are laminate mahogany. well damn.
Awesome information
Thanks
thank you my friend! and thanks for checking out my videos!
So a smart company would make mirrored, bookmarked laminate inside and out.
GReat stuff, Randy! THX
Thanks for checking it out brother!
That metal flashlight is not doing the edges of that soundhole any good
Thanks Randy !!
OW! My eye!
Found your chanel just watching guitar channels. Liked it decided to subscribe. Another way to tell not always is price.
It’s called a mirror image. The same lines that are on one cider on the other side. It looks fake.
THANKS FOR THE INFO!
thanks for watching! :)
Identifying the wood grain to see if the inside and outside match seems easy enough. I suppose if you have a cellphone that has a front facing camera you might be able to use that if you don’t have a mirror handy.
Yes I use my cell phone all the time for that, it's actually better than trying to get a mirror and light inside the sound hole. This video seems to have inspired everyone to check out their guitars! :) Thanks for viewing brother!
I thought for sure that my little chibanez would be plywood, but no, she's solid! Learned something today Randy, can take a few days off now?;)
Thanks for the information my friend!
Wow cool!!! It pays to look at your guitars and see and I'm always happier when I see solid! Yessir definitely time for a few days off! :) Thanks for stopping in Mike!
Very interesting, Randy!
Have a great Friday,
Cristina
Cristina S thank you Cristina my dear friend for viewing! wishing you a wonderful wonderful Friday as well! cheers! :)
Seeing you put the mirror in the guitar reminds me of my dentist sticking a mirror into my mouth and asking me to hold another mirror so I can see the condition of my teeth. Thx for the info! I'm gonna try it out next time I change my strings
Hi Randy - good video, sir.
Why not just look at the end grain at the sound hole??
A good way, indeed, SGNT. I never realized they did laminate tops until it was pointed out on my '77 Takemine. (Back and sides I can tolerate, but the top? Why on earth?)
Two very thin high quality, fine grained spruce plies sandwiching what looked like very coarse grained pine -- the grain running PERPENDICULAR to the other plies (for strength, no doubt). The coarse light/dark end grain pattern was totally obvious in the top and bottom of the soundhole (top and bottom as held when playing), but I never noticed 'cuz I never was aware of plied tops before.
the cam wont focos cause its like a dungeon inair ,
Quartered,hung up, field boned and or simply run over by a bus are only ways I know to skin a cat
Great Video here..as always.
Many thanks for checking it out my friend!
Practical and useful
thanks for checking it out! cheers!
@@RandySchartiger absolutely Randy.
Beautiful as solid wood guitars are; if it had been a laminate back, it wouldn't have cracked.
Very true!
Martin proved with their DX series tht laminated back makes minimal difference if every other aspect of the design is correct
I appreciate this video. I have a Zager guitar and they say it's solid mahogany. I'm going to check and see if I can be convinced. Enjoy your videos
I have a new Zager 900 and am having my doubts about the woods, I asked them to make a video of them making guitars like Martin and Taylor show on youtube,, thru each station to show they are really hand built, they wouldn't answer my request, I found that funny because they answered all other questions, like what the saddle and nut are made from and many other trivial questions. I looked at my Zager 900 using Randy's method and the inside sides look to have a seam in the middle, like it's 2 pieces, so I'm not sure.
Old-school Xbox @ 4:00...aaah memories
What's wrong with video? It will stop, leaving a "picture", but the audio continues normally.
I came back to your video. I've bought an Eastman actg1 (travel) real nice size. The specs on the Eastman say the whole guitar is solid wood. The top is sitka spruce solid, I was able to tell (thanks Randy). The back and sides are sapele. So I can't tell by the grain 😳. Other websites say laminated sapele...how confusing...
Mahogany and sapele are not as obvious to tell as rosewood...the grain is different for sure. How can I tell for sapele? Thanks my friend. 🎶🎶🎶
Hi Randy & Q ball Would be cool If you can tell us your story how you became a instrument technician ?
A few other have suggested I make a video of this and about my musical background, places I've played and some names I've worked with. hmmm that's a good idea!
man that guitar is very nice!!! hold owin!!! just druelled on my self and gotta check my draws lol
haha thanks man! I do like this guitar a lot too! thanks for watching!
One got to have a good ear to recognize by the sound alone if its ply-wood or solid body guitars
That is very true! Hey check your facebook messages in about 15 minutes I'm going to send you a link.
ok
Good info Randy! That is a beautiful guitar.
thank you man!
What's Up Randy, I have a question about Martins HPL. I am really tempted to get a Martin DX1 that had a Solid Top but had HPL Back and sides. Have you had any or heard or any bad things about HPL? Would the HPL unglue if the guitar is exposed to heat, will it warp overtime like some people claim it does? Thanks
If the proper humidity is maintained it probably will never warp. Martins HPL guitars seem to sound very good too, I set up a little Martin LX1 a while back and was really surprised how big of a sound it had to be such a tiny bodied guitar. Other than that no I've never heard anything bad other than warping but that came down to not being and keeping the humidity levels at 45-55% all of the time.
Do you have any videos on how to fix the bridge on an acoustic guitar
Ironic you piked the BR160 for the demo. Guy in our S W Bg Club owns a BR160. Another guy owns a Martin D28. Both made of all solid woods. Given my
druthers I pick the 160 to play. I' ve owned HPL Martins and Taylors and I prefer soid tone wood construction.
they are an amazing sounding instrument! thanks for viewing!
One of the best sounding flattops I have ever played was a solid spruce top {VERY tight grain structure}, laminate body early Takamine from about 1973 or so. I believe the guitars top is much more important than the body. if you have a great top, the body will compliment it. But if you have a shit top, I don't care how good the body is, or what it's made of, you are going to have a terrible sounding guitar. I have also never seen a solid woods body that did not have a solid top also. If your top is laminated, you can bet the body is too. A manufacturer is not going to go to the expense of putting a laminated top {cheap} on a solid woods body {expensive}. Spruce and cedar are a fraction of the cost of rosewood, maple and mahogany. Grain structure in the top woods has an effect on the sound too.
Hi randy got a question Yamaha has a blue Finnish inside there guitars solid top ply back and sides blue Finnish inside. Does that change the sound ???
yes, just the back and sides being plywood changes the sound a great bit compared to solid wood. thanks for watching.
That looks helpful to figured out a solid rosewood body acoustic guitar but how do you tell a solid maple wood acoustic guitar body that has thick black lacquered color finish on the outside ?
look for strips running along the inside of the sides of the body, usually solid wood guitars have them and laminated usually does not.
Hi Randy thanks for replying, yea the guitar I have is a black Takamine EF341SC that I ordered from Musician's Friend for almost 10 years ago, it was advertised as being all solid woods guitar, Spruce and Maple back and sides, now they changed it to cedar and laminated woods and I can't find anything about it online. I think they only made the solid wood version for a couple years. Now u mentions it I do see very faint strip lines inside the sound hole on the wood sides , kinda hard to see it but its there
I have not doubt that my guitar is laminated, at least the back and sides: it HAS to be, at its price point.. But I'm going to watch this anyway, and check that and the top.
Let's see how we do . . .
So seeing the same grain inside and out does not automatically mean it is solid. It could still be a laminate. All wood acoustics are lighter weight than laminates. Manufacturers tell you if the guitar is solid wood or not. Easy enough to find out. Being laminate is not a bd thing for the sides at least, and to a lesser extent the bottom. Laminate is more stable than non-laminate. Laminate does not have to be cheap. You can have high quality wood used to make a laminate. The Gibson 335 etc are laminate construction, all maple. No issues with those. After all most of the sound comes from the top. So if you have a solid top, that is good enough for most mortals. People have ill-informed opinion on laminate vs non-laminate. Laminate does not have to mean inferior. Most of the guitars out there owned by ordinary folk are at least part laminate construction. The cheapest all wood guitars I have seen are Recording King. I bought a Chines made Andrew White, which is also all solid wood on sale for $500. Not a bad guitar overall. My Washburn parlor is laminate, cost half the price of the RK or Andrew White, and is pretty good to my ears. Rosewood laminate with an Adirondack top. Sounds sweet, and is very stable.
If the grain matches identically inside and out DOES mean it's a solid wood guitar my friend, no lamination going on if you can match the grain identically. Manufactures do tell you whether it's laminate or solid but some guitars no matter how hard to dig you just can't find the specs on them, in this case this information is very useful. Everything else you said is spot on. HPL seems to be best when it comes to laminated guitars and if good wood is used can often be a better guitar than a cheaper solid wood guitar.
Hi Randy, that's pretty strange! If you look close to Cort Acoustic guitars with Solid top and Laminate back (I own a MR710 F-D) you can cleary see that inside/outside grain match. I Believe Cort made the back of the guitar with "stripes" of wood (very well) glued together. I Believe a 300 € guitar with solid top and back it's impossible! Am I wrong?
magnetforlunatics
If the back and sides are laminate some companies can make them look an awful lot alike on both sides, I believe if you look for signature marks that could be very tiny you could determine if both sides are identical in those areas or not, if it's laminate you won't be able to find any signature markings on both sides.
Stephen Gent so ley me guess.
You have a laminate one?
nice
Grain tracing is a rather weak indication of construction methodology. It can be used to falsify -- but not verify -- that the guitar is built of solid woods. Mid-level instruments often have laminated backs and sides in which the veneers are both slip-matched and book-matched. The result is a three-ply construction where the grain is identical on both the inside and outside of the plates. Japanese companies such as Alvarez and Aria perfected this construction method in the 1960's. This "triple-plate construction" still requires a back graft inside the instrument to brace the joint between the two plates so it looks just like solid-wood joinery. Most manufacturers will be sure to let you know if the construction involves all-solid woods. After all, they want you to pay more for such instruments, so they won't hold that information back. The old luthier's adage is..."if you aren't sure whether or not it's all solid, it's probably not."
what is the type of bracing on that guitar! is that scallop or just double scrape braces?
Look for layers in the sound hole, my husband is the guitarist by the way, I'm just the typist for him.So this is all his dictation.
Can I ask a question. When we say if wood is laminated contained from many pieces of wood???? Or something other?????
I've never heard of "or something other" but yes the lamination can be made up of many different types of wood. hope that helped, thanks for watching!
Did you born in this way or become it later?
Makes sense to me mate. Did you just laser me? =D
lol yep I must say I did, we been having trouble with ninjas and pirates & shit lmao! Thanks for viewing brother!
hi randy. thanks for another great video. i was wondering if the tightness of the grain matters in the quality of a acoustic guitar. i am specifically talking about the top. i have one guitar that has a wide grain, and it sounds good, but i never heard anyone mention grain before. i thought this would be good to ask while on this subject. thanks.
Yes! It matters a LOT! Take a look just below the bridge (between the bridge and the strap button end) on a high quality Martin and notice how tight the grain always is along the center of the top where the bridge sits, the tighter the grain is there, the better the guitar will usually sound. Many folks look for this when on the market for a high end guitar, it really makes a difference from one you'd see with a not so tight grain in that area. Good question!
thanks for the info randy. you always hear about a guitar having a solid top, but not much mention on the grain. i would suppose the tighter grain the more dense the wood would be perhaps aiding in the echo, but i aint no scientist, but yeah thanks again. i will defiantly be looking for it in the future especially on a high end guitar.
Gonna save y'all some time if you're THAT worried about,and would rather spend it doing all this or practicing, which effectively makes this irrelevant,stick your camera phone in with the flash on and snap a few pics.
Then play the damn thing and ignore these guys.
Thank You
thank YOU Rick for checking out my videos!
Randy look at the sound hole, if it has laquar and wood grain it's solid top. if no grain it's not.