For really, really stubborn gears heating it with a point torch for a few seconds helps a lot, not enough to damage anything, just enough to loosen things up. I recuperate a lot of steel gears from old Xerox (and other brands) machines that way. Those are incredibly tight tolerance fits that even a decent press struggles to remove them, or, eventually you end up breaking something. A stainless steel washer and a hack saw can form the same kind of plate.
10:40 IME the allen key always goes first anyway. I recently had one that was glued in there with some kind of super strength thread lock and killed a good quality allen key. I ended up drilling it out and using a thread tap to clean the screw remnants and glue out of the motor threads. But it did work, so it would be possible to recover from a stripped screw using the same procedure.
Nice tutorial, as always. Just went through exact same process so fun to watch someone do it too. Only difference is I went with soldering my pinion.That razor blade trick is pure genius! 😄
Just a 2021 update: Finding the brushless motor with 22mm can OD has become difficult lately, and some have begun using 3mm shafts (but the pinion needs 2mm shaft). The typical motor is an 1806 size for small (250?) quadcopters. Best of luck finding what you need. Also, BLHeli has really surpassed SimonK as the most accessible ESC programming software, but finding the USB adapters for any of the programming is non-trivial. However--for "insect weight" combat robots, this is still the best drive system I have encountered. Lastly, BotKits has some hardware worth looking into: they have a version of the ServoCity gearbox with a much lighter aluminum ringgear, as well as another well-proven hub and wheel combo for the 4mm shaft. (No affiliation, just a satisfied customer)
I have done that--not worth the trouble because the end in the rotor is held with the set screw (retightening of which he omitted). I actually use the brushless shaft to push the pinion off the brushed motor--it all happens in one step that way.
15:14 What's the issue with 3d printing a hub/pulley with a dshaft hole? This video was super helpful, so I subscribed and can't wait to watch more. Thanks!
It's just a bit too small and will eventually wear out. I have done it before in Low Low Man, and it does work out, for smaller wheels that see less stress/torque.
Robert, What motors are you using for your beetle weight brush less drive? I am working on my first design as it is a great time being trapped inside! You videos are very inspiring and I appreciate the detail you put into them as it helps out beginners like me. I am using Solidworks to design the bot and couldn't find any out runner cad files for motors of comparable size. Thank You!
@@RobertCowanDIY thanks for your response. Looks like that motor is discontinued. Will have to search for something of comparable size and weight. Hopefully you stocked up on them!
In regards to using a hammer, I'd actually suggest using a rubber mallet rather than anything with a metal head. Hitting the shaft with a metal hammer might deform it slightly.
MAYBE, but rubber will flex and not give you a flat surface. If you're concerned about damaging the shaft, go brass. This is why brass hammers exists. But I wouldn't recommend rubber, you want a flat surface-to-surface contact.
Yeah, that's pretty much always good advice. Wear appropriate safety gear AND don't force things! If it's not working the way it should, more force isn't always the right call.
I recently went through the reflashing of brushless ESCs. I've found the flashing kkmulticopter 0.80beta6 no longer works. It references out of date files and even if you get around that gets exceptions causing it to fail. I did manage to succeed using version 0.77 and downloading simonk separately and compiling it with Atmel studio. It will require some fiddling with an assembler file though.
The SK3-2118's seem to be sold out everywhere and with the lack of specs/dimensions posted on brushless motors, it's difficult to find something similar with the same bolt holes arrangment. Any suggestions?
Shouldn't the weight of the control electronics also be taken into account when comparing brushed and brushless motors? Since for brushed motors it is not necessary to have an ESC
For drive, you absolutely need an ESC. For a weapon, you can just use a contactor or relay, but at this weight class, that's heavier than the ESC. For brushless (at this scale) the ESCs weigh just a couple grams, actually lighter than most of the brushed counterparts.
That's a good question. I'm not really sure, but I think for most of these hobby applications, you're meant to use them at full RPM. With brushless motors, you can change the windings to get different RPM ranges (changing the KV). But with brushed motors, it's just all about the voltage, so you NEED a gearbox. The problem is with the smaller brushless motors, your KV can only get so low, so your RPM is generally still pretty high.
Generally speaking, higher voltage is the goal. But, then you end up doing silly things like I did using two batteries, re-wiring everything, etc. For MOST insect-class robots, 2-3 cells is the way to go.
I had no issues with these. I mentioned (I think?) in the video that you could use epoxy, superglue or even solder, but that wasn't a concern for me. The pinion was tight enough.
@@RobertCowanDIY Re-used pinions kinda fail over time, especially small brass ones. Mine lasted a couple of events, but then slipped completely. I really like the press plate you machined. Much simplier than the small gear puller I bought.
Actually, from an electrical perspective I think the brushless motor is OK in water--it has no exposed current carriers (unlike the brushes and commutation in a brushed motor). The magnets, ESC, any exposed connections, and the bearings are all problems, of course.
How did you find the right BLDC motor with the correct shaft diameter to fit the gearbox pinion ? Any links? I have been trying to make a geared BLDC motor for a while. I couldn't find the right BLDC motor with the correct output shaft to match the gearbox pinion.
![เปิดบ้าน พี่ตูน Bodyslam หลังใหม่คนแรก ที่ภูเก็ต l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/flFwcmyDQSk/mqdefault.jpg)
For really, really stubborn gears heating it with a point torch for a few seconds helps a lot, not enough to damage anything, just enough to loosen things up. I recuperate a lot of steel gears from old Xerox (and other brands) machines that way. Those are incredibly tight tolerance fits that even a decent press struggles to remove them, or, eventually you end up breaking something.
A stainless steel washer and a hack saw can form the same kind of plate.
10:40 IME the allen key always goes first anyway. I recently had one that was glued in there with some kind of super strength thread lock and killed a good quality allen key. I ended up drilling it out and using a thread tap to clean the screw remnants and glue out of the motor threads. But it did work, so it would be possible to recover from a stripped screw using the same procedure.
I'm learning a lot from your videos, thank you!
Nice tutorial, as always. Just went through exact same process so fun to watch someone do it too. Only difference is I went with soldering my pinion.That razor blade trick is pure genius! 😄
Hi Robert I was wondering what brushless motor you would recommend now or what you would recommend we do about finding one?
2 tricks for the blade method that make this way safer and easier. Tape the sharp edge with electrical tape and tape the 2 blades to each other.
Finnally! I have been waiting for this video for like, 2 months! Thank you so much for making this!
Nice! This is just the sort of thing new builders are looking for!
Just a 2021 update: Finding the brushless motor with 22mm can OD has become difficult lately, and some have begun using 3mm shafts (but the pinion needs 2mm shaft). The typical motor is an 1806 size for small (250?) quadcopters. Best of luck finding what you need.
Also, BLHeli has really surpassed SimonK as the most accessible ESC programming software, but finding the USB adapters for any of the programming is non-trivial.
However--for "insect weight" combat robots, this is still the best drive system I have encountered.
Lastly, BotKits has some hardware worth looking into: they have a version of the ServoCity gearbox with a much lighter aluminum ringgear, as well as another well-proven hub and wheel combo for the 4mm shaft. (No affiliation, just a satisfied customer)
Oh, and great video!
Thanks! Yeah, it's an old video, but many people sell kits with motors included now.
Thank you so much for all of this information!
Great video! Learned a lot. Thanks!
Ever tried pressing the shaft out all the way out so you could flip it around to make use of the C clip again?
I have done that--not worth the trouble because the end in the rotor is held with the set screw (retightening of which he omitted).
I actually use the brushless shaft to push the pinion off the brushed motor--it all happens in one step that way.
15:14 What's the issue with 3d printing a hub/pulley with a dshaft hole? This video was super helpful, so I subscribed and can't wait to watch more. Thanks!
It's just a bit too small and will eventually wear out. I have done it before in Low Low Man, and it does work out, for smaller wheels that see less stress/torque.
Robert, What motors are you using for your beetle weight brush less drive? I am working on my first design as it is a great time being trapped inside! You videos are very inspiring and I appreciate the detail you put into them as it helps out beginners like me. I am using Solidworks to design the bot and couldn't find any out runner cad files for motors of comparable size. Thank You!
SK3 2118, check hobbyking.
@@RobertCowanDIY thanks for your response. Looks like that motor is discontinued. Will have to search for something of comparable size and weight. Hopefully you stocked up on them!
@@kbrowncny1 did you find anything that worked?
In regards to using a hammer, I'd actually suggest using a rubber mallet rather than anything with a metal head. Hitting the shaft with a metal hammer might deform it slightly.
MAYBE, but rubber will flex and not give you a flat surface. If you're concerned about damaging the shaft, go brass. This is why brass hammers exists. But I wouldn't recommend rubber, you want a flat surface-to-surface contact.
Heads up!! Wear safety glasses!!
One of my razor blades shattered while I was pressing. Shrapnel snagged a finger but otherwise escaped unharmed.
Yeah, that's pretty much always good advice. Wear appropriate safety gear AND don't force things! If it's not working the way it should, more force isn't always the right call.
30% weight savings brushed to BL (reduction in weight is 30%), Brushed weighs 50% more than the BL 1:40
I recently went through the reflashing of brushless ESCs. I've found the flashing kkmulticopter 0.80beta6 no longer works. It references out of date files and even if you get around that gets exceptions causing it to fail.
I did manage to succeed using version 0.77 and downloading simonk separately and compiling it with Atmel studio. It will require some fiddling with an assembler file though.
The SK3-2118's seem to be sold out everywhere and with the lack of specs/dimensions posted on brushless motors, it's difficult to find something similar with the same bolt holes arrangment. Any suggestions?
Unfortunately, I'm not aware of any drop-in replacements. I wish motors would be discontinued so readily!
@@RobertCowanDIY No worries. Looks like I will have to fab my own mount plate. Thanks for the reply.
I was going to ask this same exact question, I can't find the right motor to work with the servocity gearbox :(
Shouldn't the weight of the control electronics also be taken into account when comparing brushed and brushless motors? Since for brushed motors it is not necessary to have an ESC
For drive, you absolutely need an ESC. For a weapon, you can just use a contactor or relay, but at this weight class, that's heavier than the ESC. For brushless (at this scale) the ESCs weigh just a couple grams, actually lighter than most of the brushed counterparts.
Hey, I know this is older, but are those motors comparable in torque? Or would you have to step up the size of the brushless to compensate
How are the motors mounted into the machine? I don't see any mountings on the motor?
Why don't they supply brushless motors with gearboxes? Am I missing something?
That's a good question. I'm not really sure, but I think for most of these hobby applications, you're meant to use them at full RPM. With brushless motors, you can change the windings to get different RPM ranges (changing the KV). But with brushed motors, it's just all about the voltage, so you NEED a gearbox. The problem is with the smaller brushless motors, your KV can only get so low, so your RPM is generally still pretty high.
They do now, such as the ones from Fingertech. But most of the small brushless motors are for drones so they need high rpms.
what bldc motors are you using for this?
What filament did you print your pulleys out of? I'm thinking of doing a similar drive setup. Thanks!
I use either NylonX or get them printed from Shapeways with the sintered HP stuff.
What's the shaft diameter for the motor? (not the final output shaft, I know that's 4mm)
2nm
i don't think brush motors are more reliable and nearly all bl motors work with most esc's 😉
3:09 Cell* not volt
What amount of cells do you recommend that balances weight and speed
I currently use 2 cell in bettlewaight but feel that it is underpowered
There really is none. Use what you need. If you need more voltage, get a battery with a higher cell count.
Generally speaking, higher voltage is the goal. But, then you end up doing silly things like I did using two batteries, re-wiring everything, etc. For MOST insect-class robots, 2-3 cells is the way to go.
intresting i did this with the dys motors and i had to epoxy the pinion onto the motor shaft do you use any extra bonding agents for the pinion
I had no issues with these. I mentioned (I think?) in the video that you could use epoxy, superglue or even solder, but that wasn't a concern for me. The pinion was tight enough.
@@RobertCowanDIY Re-used pinions kinda fail over time, especially small brass ones. Mine lasted a couple of events, but then slipped completely.
I really like the press plate you machined. Much simplier than the small gear puller I bought.
Another option is to remove the entire shaft and pinion from the brushed motor and press it in place of the brushless motor shaft.
is brushless motor water resist?
no. well, in theory if it's pure water, which is non-conductive. look for motors for boats, they are usually sealed.
Actually, from an electrical perspective I think the brushless motor is OK in water--it has no exposed current carriers (unlike the brushes and commutation in a brushed motor). The magnets, ESC, any exposed connections, and the bearings are all problems, of course.
Use blheli32 escs.
zaqwsx28 Does that eliminate the need to flash Simon K?
Do you know any cheap beetle weight spinner motors? Can't find the info anywhere ☺️
drive.google.com/open?id=1tXSzwzEM2jNGjZ2KYn00ldeHvEru0y3_zlNkVw-F9iI
😉Thx
Forbidden path
How did you find the right BLDC motor with the correct shaft diameter to fit the gearbox pinion ? Any links?
I have been trying to make a geared BLDC motor for a while. I couldn't find the right BLDC motor with the correct output shaft to match the gearbox pinion.
Didnt you use to work at sparkfun?
Yep, that's me ;-)