I think it’ll be her accepting her delusion via him. He’s naturally able to, but she needed that nudge and now she doesn’t wanna let go. How far would she go to keep him unstable and in love? That’s the tragedy of their dynamic that’s appealing imo
Theory: Harley uses romance to get close to Joker to see how he ticks because she's a research psychologist. She's in Arkham observing the population but when she sees him she knows he's SO much more interesting than the people in the rest of the population of Arkham so she does whatever she needs to do to get close to him. That's why she's on the other side of the glass.
That's what I'm thinking too. She's a psychologist who's been allowed to go undercover as a patient to try out a new form of treatment (curing someone through love and attachment? And music, I guess?) and she'll get too close and start to go crazy herself.
Unfortunately she only disappoints for a decade now, I would say. 😌 She’s super talented. But bc of chasing that Oscar for acting her music has suffered BIG time and she hasn’t done something great since BTW imo 😌
@@Felicity_Young I have achieved plenty in life. Unlike Gaga, my career didn't crumble 3 years after I started and I didn't have to switch to a different profession to stay afloat.
I wonder if there's going to be a Twist at the end, in the twist is sort of like the end of Shutter Island where it's revealed that Harley Quinn is actually a psychiatrist like in the comics and her being a patient was only facade to try to reach Arthur. But perhaps spending time with him it changes her
Shutter island twist sounds possible. I was thinking " sucker punch 2011" instead of action fighting, we get dancing and singing. I am sure this movie will be a good mind F . After all Todd Philips did the hangover series and it had great twist and turns.
Honestly Harley being "manipulative" in the sense that she's the one to push him to be the Joker seems so comic accurate to me because she loooves him as Joker so the concept of her being manipulative would make total sense.
Gaga is coming for that best actress oscars.. This trailer alone feels already bigger than A Star is Born and House of Gucci and in both of those films she already got recognized! This will solidify it!
There’s definitely something going on with the moment of her throwing the trashcan through the glass front; Arthur is on the tv seemingly being interviewed and this connects with his shouting “that’s what we should be talking about!”
Being not american, when the date came up at the end as 10.4.24 I GASPED and thought they'd done a really clever "jokes on you it's out today" - then realised what was happening and now am sad.
Some of these american specific systems are so dumb😭😭 like in what way would putting the month before the date make senseeeee. Miles and Feet also stupid af
Two reasons. We kept the system we started off with. And the month is the most important piece of information, because you’re not usually likely to be off by a year and the day is meaningless on its own. “OMG! The blahth! Wait. Is that next week or next month? Last month?”
This version of Harley manipulating Joker also makes sense for THIS version of Joker. We saw the first movie, I couldn’t imagine him manipulating her when they first meet. Maybe in the end he’ll turn on her and come out on top. Arthur is the protagonist in the movie.
So excited for this. I’ll forever love Lady Gaga and Harley Quinn. Right after the trailer, I immediately thought how excited I am for Grace’s reaction and breakdown. ♥️😂
I still think it's weird that Warner Brothers, yet again like Wonka, doesn't advertise it as a musical or that we don't see these two actually singing.. I showed this to my parents and they had no idea it was a musical untill I told them.
Where did you get it was musical if Warner Bros and Todd Phillip didn’t even say it was? It’s exactly the same like Joker 1 which btw has 17 songs in it. Just because now there are two with the music inside his head, doesn’t make it a musical genre.
I wasn't sure about the trailer until your breakdown! Now, I have great appreciation for it and am definitely excited to see the movie! You make movies more fun, Grace!
Color change is what they did for Harley in Suicide Squad. Margot was great and had the look which even influenced the comics. But im looking forward to seeing this Gaga version. Dont really count these as comic book movies but glad to see this exploration.
Random thought but, I think when Arthur says “he isn’t alone anymore” he may be referring to the supporters on the outside. After it cuts to him saying “that’s what we should be talking about”.
I used to teach Psychodrama in Mexico, that is improvised theater with a therapeutic approach. In there, you act out dreams or memories to find closer. There are scenes where Gaga is recreating Joker's experiences from the first movie, (notice how she has a script to follow), kinda like Psychodrama for Joker to see himself from an outside point of view, (also similar to Gestalt) I think by doing that, Joker being a narcissist, will fall in love with Harley, and Harley will get caught in her empathy while living as Arthur. There for, Folie a Deux.
If the movie is going for that "guys can be in abusive relationships too" angle like you say, it'll have to walk that line carefully. Cause I can see guys viewing it as simping and not showing up over that.
I think they swap the roles here. Instead of Joker doing the manipulating...its going to be Harley who will manipulate Joker and in the end of the film she will betray Joker.
I’ll go opening weekend only in support of Gaga. If it’s good, I’ll watch it every weekend I can, like I’m doing with GxK 😂😂 I’m trying to catch that one in 3D as much as possible
Nah. Hollywood never learns - history shows us that. So be happy to get one fun experiment every few years and the rest will be business as usual - as usual
@@lars7282 historically Hollywood learns from financial flops That's the only thing that they listen to Oppenheimer Barbie Dune 2 Seen to show a shift for what current audiences want from blockbusters And Joker 2 might affirm it more The new Godzilla film shows that audiences will show up for fun movies too
in terms of the music i 100% think this is gonna be like the movie of Chicago, where all the musical numbers are done to represent the key moments in the story, the first meeting, the courtroom, etc etc
I know I’m going to love this, but they should’ve teased the “musical” part a little more. People don’t love being surprised by song and dance numbers. I don’t know if Joker 2019 fans will care for it. It’s such a different genre.
First time i watched the trailer i didnt think she was manipulating him. Was kinda asking myself why was harlequin so... different. But now it makes sense. I didn't quite dig the first movie, maybe ill like this one better.
I know there’s already to many Batman’s in the new DC universe but I would love to see one day what Todd Phillips would do with the Joker and Batman’s relationship. Especially if it was the thing to get in the way or his romance with Harley.
I knew that was Brendan Gleeson! 😂 I thought it might've just been someone who looked like him but he's so distinctive that I thought it was unlikely lol
My only question is the writing and what kind of direction they go in. The first movie was a mix of Taxi Driver/The King of Comedy etc. Will this be another mix of movies or something new?
My theory: The government blames Arthur for Thomas Wayne's death and wants to execute him. But they don't know if he's insane or fit to stand trial. So Harley's job is to determine whether he is logical or not. If he's logical, he qualifies for the death penalty. If he is insane, he gets a life sentence to stay in Arkham Asylum forever. Rather than do routine testing, Harley decided to set him up and make him fall in love with her as an experiment. Perhaps along the way she justifies it as "If he goes on a rampage, then that proves he is insane and I will inadvertently save his life by egging him on!"
Which is a great theory and very plausible. The only thing is then why would she dress like a fan, with the makeup and everything to go to court, that will make her look like she's biased, or that might be happening towards the end of the movie when they already planned to take him out of there anyway.
Good theory but that’s as far as her intention is concerned. I also see that eventually she will be falling (more like obsessed) with him halfway to the end, 😊the deeper she tries to get into his head.
I’ve never looked at Arthur’s character and thought “how adorable”….. in fact he comes off very triggering to me and quite sad. I’m interested to see how Lady Gaga does acting wise in this…. I think the awards boards like her more than the audience does. She’ll definitely get nominated no matter what she does in this film. My take Gaga’s Harley is a psychiatrist that works for some sort of FBI (due to owing ransom) and they have her placed in the mental institution to see what’s going on in there, interested to see how audiences will like her being the villain of this story…??? But then again I this is all speculation off of what you said in this video. 😊
she is a patient but in defferent security floors of the ward. hence the pajamas hence being there at night hence being one of the inmate crowd in every shot. she's an inmate. it looks like there putting together a show for the inmates and or a play tbat would requier them to be transported to a theater in wich they use to make an escape..
I think Todd Philips might have drawn inspiration from the Telltale Batman games, where at first, John Doe is madly in love with a much more headstrong, powerful Harley, it’s a really cute crush and he had absolutely no confidence, but based on the choices you make, he takes control and embraces his new persona as Joker.
Grace I dont think she gets him out by signing him out or sneaking him out. I think she either blows up the asylum or sets it on fire, hence the ambulances and fire in the background when they dance in the rain
I actually agree that Harley is the abuser but in a way that may led to Arthur at the end to realize that she’s really crazy and maybe not ending up liking her that much (like in the comics) and seeing she can be so dangerous that maybe that’s why he would not get rid of her, because is better to keep her close as an ally in the end.
Him imagining Harley altogether would be the same plot as the first one. So I’m willing to bet, that that’s not the case. Really into the role reversal, that’s exciting!
The fact that Harley does the "gun shoot" to the head, just like Sophie did in the first movie leads me to believe that she may be just a complete figment of his imagination. Just like his relationship with Sophie in the first movie
Making Harley the manipulative partner in the relationship would give this film a devilish twist. I love it already! It reminds of the 2nd “Telltale Batman” game. Cannot wait to see this one in IMAX. Cheers!
So Grace allegedly knows the end of the film and is saying what she “thinks” is going on with Harley in the film (i.e., that she’s manipulating Arthur). If this comes to fruition then Grace truly is the worst and can’t help spoil stuff. I had to turn “breakdown” off and am actually sad that the film may be spoilt for me 😔
I definitely think Harley is being manipulative to get closer to him (probably because of the reasons you talked about) but I don't think you can really go full abuser with her. If they were to they'd really have to flesh it out like with him in the first one, which could actually be really cool. If I had to guess it'll be about how they're both toxic for each other.
I think that if Joker can even get close to Dune II’s box office, it’ll be a huge win. Prestige blockbuster with awards chances from the same studio. • As wild as it is to even consider, the first film just isn’t a comp that makes sense for the sequel. • We’ve learned too well by now that pre-pandemic and post-pandemic are 2 vastly and completely different markets.
When I watched The Batman I was immediately struck by how well it ties in with 2019 Joker. Gotham looks terrible in Joker. It also looks terrible in The Batman. Also in The Batman, there are these roving gangs of hoodlums who go around beating people up and they wear what looks like Juggalo makeup. My personal headcanon is that 2019 Joker took place in the 1970s and it broke Gotham forever. Arthur Fleck became a legend and now people dress up in clown makeup to do violent mob acts because of the riot. The two movies just feel like counterparts of each other.
@@CarolCityCane305 they can, unless this movie fucks everything up. They can say that Thomas Wayne was a hero to Bruce but a corrupt billionaire who ran for mayor and got killed because Arthur Fleck became a working class hero and riots happened to support him. Because of that, the government wanted to give him the death penalty but didnt know if he was insane or not so they sent Harleen Quinzel to diagnose him. She decided to manipulate him into breaking out in this movie to see if he is logical or insane and he goes on another rampage. So she decided he doesn't fit the execution so he lived long enough to inspire generations to dress in clown makeup and the city got worse and worse until it became what we see in The Batman. New crime families rose up after Thomas Wayne's death and the new mayor was killed by The Riddler. After The Riddler gets sent to New Arkham, he meets a guy with a twisted smile who calls himself The Joker as inspiration of Arthur Fleck and becomes Gotham's new threat. That takes place in The Batman 2. Its Very easy to connect so far.
I actually think a big BIG part of this will revolve around fame! Talking about what fame does to someone as in getting people to love you and someone trying to use your popularity to become famous themselves aka Harley doing the falling in love routine just to get in Joker's fame ! I think Gaga would 100% relate to that kind of story !!
Thought I am so excoted to see villain Harley and be Jokers partner, I truly hope they show how toxic the relationship is and that she goes independent in the end. Her being an abuse survivor is what made me love her. It will be so weird if she become the true abuser.
my biggest issue with this version of the joker is all this “feeling bad” for him, i just can’t get past it, that’s not who the joker is or is supposed to be…
A part of me thinks this is actually not a musical where Joker and Harley sing. I think none of them is gonna sing, I think there's gonna be music, sure, but no singing from the main characters
I don’t know… on one hand as it stands alone it looks interesting. On the other hand, Harley manipulating the Joker? That’s not Harley. Harley is manipulated and abused by Joker not the other way around. That is what makes her character so tragic.
I don’t think they’re gonna make her to be 100% the abuser, probably gonna be Arthur and her being abusive to eachother.
I think it’ll be her accepting her delusion via him. He’s naturally able to, but she needed that nudge and now she doesn’t wanna let go. How far would she go to keep him unstable and in love? That’s the tragedy of their dynamic that’s appealing imo
I see this movie similar to Sucker Punch 2011. Instead of fighting and action, we get dancing and singing during the " delusional phases"
I hope Poison Ivy is in the movie like with her in Arkham Asylum
@@zzygyyhuh?
@@packedentertainment2866 you never saw sucker punch ?
apologies if someone has already mentioned it but the umbrellas are a reference to classic french musical "the umbrellas of cherbourg"
Harley is dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight...
Captain America: I understood that reference! 🤓
Theory: Harley uses romance to get close to Joker to see how he ticks because she's a research psychologist. She's in Arkham observing the population but when she sees him she knows he's SO much more interesting than the people in the rest of the population of Arkham so she does whatever she needs to do to get close to him. That's why she's on the other side of the glass.
That’s my perspective too. And that’s how it becomes abusive. Via her admiration becoming obsession
That's what I'm thinking too. She's a psychologist who's been allowed to go undercover as a patient to try out a new form of treatment (curing someone through love and attachment? And music, I guess?) and she'll get too close and start to go crazy herself.
A little similar to Sarah Paulson’s character in American Horror Story Asylum
I think Harley's going to catalyse Arthur's transformation into a monster she cannot control.
Oh Gaga NEVER disappoints!!! She's coming for that Oscar nomination. Her chemistry with Joaquin is PERFECT.
Lol she literally disappoints every time. She couldn't even be bothered to do a NY accent for Harley even though she herself is from NY. 😂
Unfortunately she only disappoints for a decade now, I would say. 😌 She’s super talented. But bc of chasing that Oscar for acting her music has suffered BIG time and she hasn’t done something great since BTW imo 😌
@@edselgreaves6503 “literally disappoints everytime” says the one who hasn’t ACHIEVED anything in life 😂
@@Felicity_Young I have achieved plenty in life. Unlike Gaga, my career didn't crumble 3 years after I started and I didn't have to switch to a different profession to stay afloat.
@@edselgreaves6503 Para de mentir gay
I wonder if there's going to be a Twist at the end, in the twist is sort of like the end of Shutter Island where it's revealed that Harley Quinn is actually a psychiatrist like in the comics and her being a patient was only facade to try to reach Arthur. But perhaps spending time with him it changes her
I still hope she ends up being independent though. That arc of her is what made me love Harley.
The twist is that most of the movie is in Harleys head. Oh, they also both die at the end.
@@axebattler6604I can see this movie going with the whole. It's all a dream and isn't real
Shutter island twist sounds possible. I was thinking " sucker punch 2011" instead of action fighting, we get dancing and singing.
I am sure this movie will be a good mind F . After all Todd Philips did the hangover series and it had great twist and turns.
The multicolored windows look like the opening credits for "Only Murderers in the Building", which seems appropriate 😂.
the white suit joker also is a great DARK KNIGHT reference
Honestly Harley being "manipulative" in the sense that she's the one to push him to be the Joker seems so comic accurate to me because she loooves him as Joker so the concept of her being manipulative would make total sense.
Gaga is coming for that best actress oscars.. This trailer alone feels already bigger than A Star is Born and House of Gucci and in both of those films she already got recognized! This will solidify it!
There’s definitely something going on with the moment of her throwing the trashcan through the glass front; Arthur is on the tv seemingly being interviewed and this connects with his shouting “that’s what we should be talking about!”
What if she's his doctor, but in his mind she’s a patient. She just goes along with it in order to study him.
She thought life for Arthur is all about her, but at the end she realised it’s all him in her life all along.
Being not american, when the date came up at the end as 10.4.24 I GASPED and thought they'd done a really clever "jokes on you it's out today" - then realised what was happening and now am sad.
Lol same here. I have no clue way they put the month before the date. That's like saying century 21st.
Some of these american specific systems are so dumb😭😭 like in what way would putting the month before the date make senseeeee. Miles and Feet also stupid af
Two reasons. We kept the system we started off with. And the month is the most important piece of information, because you’re not usually likely to be off by a year and the day is meaningless on its own. “OMG! The blahth! Wait. Is that next week or next month? Last month?”
@@joshuavanderrheede4469No it’s like saying October 4th instead of 4th October…
@@nredd 4th of october….
This version of Harley manipulating Joker also makes sense for THIS version of Joker. We saw the first movie, I couldn’t imagine him manipulating her when they first meet.
Maybe in the end he’ll turn on her and come out on top. Arthur is the protagonist in the movie.
They’re both caught in a bad romance 😂
That’s why she was cast!
"My-my-my-Joker face, my-my-Joker face!"
Movie looks great.....The score, cinematography, all fantastic.....I can't wait to see it.
14:14 you can see that her fuzzy cardigan actually has the harlequin diamonds on it!
Classic trailer making in all it's glory. Great length, didn't show too much, and gave you an idea of the plot and tone. VERY interesting.
I'm surprised NO ONE is mentioning the fact that Dr. Harleen Quinzel was once Joker's therapist.
What if this is Harleys POV? She is the one imagining the scenes with the Joker?
should be. after all, harley fell for joker first.
So excited for this. I’ll forever love Lady Gaga and Harley Quinn. Right after the trailer, I immediately thought how excited I am for Grace’s reaction and breakdown. ♥️😂
Crying literally tears. Gaga looks amazing
I actually think it would be a more realistic take, think of the power dynamic of a doctor falling in love and taking advantage of their patient.
love this breakdown…. i agree for the most part and excited for gaga as harley
As always. Amazing descripción of the trailer My beautiful Grace. Amazing brain You have
I still think it's weird that Warner Brothers, yet again like Wonka, doesn't advertise it as a musical or that we don't see these two actually singing.. I showed this to my parents and they had no idea it was a musical untill I told them.
its not a musical, it has musical elements
Where did you get it was musical if Warner Bros and Todd Phillip didn’t even say it was? It’s exactly the same like Joker 1 which btw has 17 songs in it. Just because now there are two with the music inside his head, doesn’t make it a musical genre.
I wasn't sure about the trailer until your breakdown! Now, I have great appreciation for it and am definitely excited to see the movie! You make movies more fun, Grace!
Color change is what they did for Harley in Suicide Squad. Margot was great and had the look which even influenced the comics. But im looking forward to seeing this Gaga version.
Dont really count these as comic book movies but glad to see this exploration.
Random thought but, I think when Arthur says “he isn’t alone anymore” he may be referring to the supporters on the outside. After it cuts to him saying “that’s what we should be talking about”.
I used to teach Psychodrama in Mexico, that is improvised theater with a therapeutic approach. In there, you act out dreams or memories to find closer. There are scenes where Gaga is recreating Joker's experiences from the first movie, (notice how she has a script to follow), kinda like Psychodrama for Joker to see himself from an outside point of view, (also similar to Gestalt) I think by doing that, Joker being a narcissist, will fall in love with Harley, and Harley will get caught in her empathy while living as Arthur. There for, Folie a Deux.
The lipstick smile scene is magnificent! I gasped!
I have an imaginary theory that this movie is actually about Harley and instead of Joker's mind, everything is actually in Harley's mind.
LIVE trailer breakdowns are the best things that happened this year🔥
If the movie is going for that "guys can be in abusive relationships too" angle like you say, it'll have to walk that line carefully. Cause I can see guys viewing it as simping and not showing up over that.
you were cracking yourself and me up throughout the entire livestream 😭😭
I think they swap the roles here. Instead of Joker doing the manipulating...its going to be Harley who will manipulate Joker and in the end of the film she will betray Joker.
Gaga and Joaquin look amazing, the cinematography es stunning. I just really cant wait.
Todd Phillips did it again!! Gaga and Joaquin are magical to watch!
Grace it's April 10 already! Any update on the potential WBD sale you've been hinting all this while?
Great Stuff, as always!
I’ll go opening weekend only in support of Gaga. If it’s good, I’ll watch it every weekend I can, like I’m doing with GxK 😂😂 I’m trying to catch that one in 3D as much as possible
I'm a mid 30's bachelor, and I loved Joker, and I think I'm going to love Joker 2.
AMC A-List for the win. ❤
So pumped!! Sorry I missed the stream
Harley Quinn being the abuser instead of joker is something that's been done before in the telltale videogames
The 2nd season of the Batman Telltale games have previously adapted the Harley and Joker relationship, were Harley is the dominant one
The other guy standing next to Gary in the wedding scene looks like the guy who was the guest on Murray's chat show.
Maybe this'll be the year when movies take a turn for the better
🤞
Nah. Hollywood never learns - history shows us that. So be happy to get one fun experiment every few years and the rest will be business as usual - as usual
@@lars7282 historically Hollywood learns from financial flops
That's the only thing that they listen to
Oppenheimer
Barbie
Dune 2
Seen to show a shift for what current audiences want from blockbusters
And Joker 2 might affirm it more
The new Godzilla film shows that audiences will show up for fun movies too
in terms of the music i 100% think this is gonna be like the movie of Chicago, where all the musical numbers are done to represent the key moments in the story, the first meeting, the courtroom, etc etc
I know I’m going to love this, but they should’ve teased the “musical” part a little more. People don’t love being surprised by song and dance numbers. I don’t know if Joker 2019 fans will care for it. It’s such a different genre.
THE TRAILER WAS SO GOOD!
Love the intoxicating enthusiasm
The umbrella colour is just looks like her suit and the makeup.
First time i watched the trailer i didnt think she was manipulating him. Was kinda asking myself why was harlequin so... different. But now it makes sense. I didn't quite dig the first movie, maybe ill like this one better.
I know there’s already to many Batman’s in the new DC universe but I would love to see one day what Todd Phillips would do with the Joker and Batman’s relationship. Especially if it was the thing to get in the way or his romance with Harley.
True that would be so awesome
This WOULD definitely help Gaga's career if it's a success. It'll expose her range
I knew that was Brendan Gleeson! 😂 I thought it might've just been someone who looked like him but he's so distinctive that I thought it was unlikely lol
Still lost in the afterglow of such a stunner!!!!
I think this movie is the origin story of Harley & Joker's relationship.
My only question is the writing and what kind of direction they go in. The first movie was a mix of Taxi Driver/The King of Comedy etc. Will this be another mix of movies or something new?
I’m not with you on the whole “she’s the abuser” thing. But I agree this looks great!
People forget the power a woman can have over a man. She's obsessed with the joker version of him. She's the one to bring it out of him
GAGA LOOKS GREAT!
My theory: The government blames Arthur for Thomas Wayne's death and wants to execute him. But they don't know if he's insane or fit to stand trial. So Harley's job is to determine whether he is logical or not. If he's logical, he qualifies for the death penalty. If he is insane, he gets a life sentence to stay in Arkham Asylum forever. Rather than do routine testing, Harley decided to set him up and make him fall in love with her as an experiment. Perhaps along the way she justifies it as "If he goes on a rampage, then that proves he is insane and I will inadvertently save his life by egging him on!"
I do think that somehow she falls for him though in a twisted way.
Which is a great theory and very plausible.
The only thing is then why would she dress like a fan, with the makeup and everything to go to court, that will make her look like she's biased, or that might be happening towards the end of the movie when they already planned to take him out of there anyway.
@@alephpardo8393 by then she probably lost her mind, I guess. This theory only applies up to the point wher they blow up Arkham Asylum.
@@edselgreaves6503 Yes correct, if she indeed goes down hill with him, she will then go to court in this outfit eventually.
Good theory but that’s as far as her intention is concerned. I also see that eventually she will be falling (more like obsessed) with him halfway to the end, 😊the deeper she tries to get into his head.
I’ve never looked at Arthur’s character and thought “how adorable”….. in fact he comes off very triggering to me and quite sad. I’m interested to see how Lady Gaga does acting wise in this…. I think the awards boards like her more than the audience does. She’ll definitely get nominated no matter what she does in this film.
My take Gaga’s Harley is a psychiatrist that works for some sort of FBI (due to owing ransom) and they have her placed in the mental institution to see what’s going on in there, interested to see how audiences will like her being the villain of this story…??? But then again I this is all speculation off of what you said in this video. 😊
she is a patient but in defferent security floors of the ward. hence the pajamas hence being there at night hence being one of the inmate crowd in every shot. she's an inmate. it looks like there putting together a show for the inmates and or a play tbat would requier them to be transported to a theater in wich they use to make an escape..
I think Todd Philips might have drawn inspiration from the Telltale Batman games, where at first, John Doe is madly in love with a much more headstrong, powerful Harley, it’s a really cute crush and he had absolutely no confidence, but based on the choices you make, he takes control and embraces his new persona as Joker.
It's true I do like a headstrong Harley.
Grace I dont think she gets him out by signing him out or sneaking him out. I think she either blows up the asylum or sets it on fire, hence the ambulances and fire in the background when they dance in the rain
I think you're right as he is covered in brick dust when he's running down the street.
I actually agree that Harley is the abuser but in a way that may led to Arthur at the end to realize that she’s really crazy and maybe not ending up liking her that much (like in the comics) and seeing she can be so dangerous that maybe that’s why he would not get rid of her, because is better to keep her close as an ally in the end.
I am guessing Lady Ga Ga was one of the masked clowns in the first Joker and she is also one of the therapist/volunteer in Arkham.
Love this so kuxh!
Him imagining Harley altogether would be the same plot as the first one. So I’m willing to bet, that that’s not the case. Really into the role reversal, that’s exciting!
The fact that Harley does the "gun shoot" to the head, just like Sophie did in the first movie leads me to believe that she may be just a complete figment of his imagination. Just like his relationship with Sophie in the first movie
The umbrella colours are from the Johnny Carson show and then the Murray show.
Without knowing anything about the film, the end of the movie might be Joker killing her or the other way around.
Making Harley the manipulative partner in the relationship would give this film a devilish twist. I love it already! It reminds of the 2nd “Telltale Batman” game. Cannot wait to see this one in IMAX. Cheers!
So Grace allegedly knows the end of the film and is saying what she “thinks” is going on with Harley in the film (i.e., that she’s manipulating Arthur). If this comes to fruition then Grace truly is the worst and can’t help spoil stuff. I had to turn “breakdown” off and am actually sad that the film may be spoilt for me 😔
I definitely think Harley is being manipulative to get closer to him (probably because of the reasons you talked about) but I don't think you can really go full abuser with her. If they were to they'd really have to flesh it out like with him in the first one, which could actually be really cool. If I had to guess it'll be about how they're both toxic for each other.
It would be AWESOME if all the dark/violent scenes in the film are all the musical numbers as if to mock their seriousness
I think that if Joker can even get close to Dune II’s box office, it’ll be a huge win. Prestige blockbuster with awards chances from the same studio.
•
As wild as it is to even consider, the first film just isn’t a comp that makes sense for the sequel.
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We’ve learned too well by now that pre-pandemic and post-pandemic are 2 vastly and completely different markets.
Did anyone notice that they used the same font & colour as The Batman??🤔
When I watched The Batman I was immediately struck by how well it ties in with 2019 Joker. Gotham looks terrible in Joker. It also looks terrible in The Batman. Also in The Batman, there are these roving gangs of hoodlums who go around beating people up and they wear what looks like Juggalo makeup. My personal headcanon is that 2019 Joker took place in the 1970s and it broke Gotham forever. Arthur Fleck became a legend and now people dress up in clown makeup to do violent mob acts because of the riot. The two movies just feel like counterparts of each other.
@@edselgreaves6503it will be a dream if somehow they can connect Phoenix joker to Pattinson Batman omg
@@CarolCityCane305 they can, unless this movie fucks everything up. They can say that Thomas Wayne was a hero to Bruce but a corrupt billionaire who ran for mayor and got killed because Arthur Fleck became a working class hero and riots happened to support him. Because of that, the government wanted to give him the death penalty but didnt know if he was insane or not so they sent Harleen Quinzel to diagnose him. She decided to manipulate him into breaking out in this movie to see if he is logical or insane and he goes on another rampage. So she decided he doesn't fit the execution so he lived long enough to inspire generations to dress in clown makeup and the city got worse and worse until it became what we see in The Batman. New crime families rose up after Thomas Wayne's death and the new mayor was killed by The Riddler. After The Riddler gets sent to New Arkham, he meets a guy with a twisted smile who calls himself The Joker as inspiration of Arthur Fleck and becomes Gotham's new threat. That takes place in The Batman 2. Its Very easy to connect so far.
@@edselgreaves6503 🔥🔥🔥🔥
i hope they don't kill her at the end of the movie!
Watching the "Marry the Night" music video to get a sense of Gaga's Harley! ;)
You are simply the best Grace ❤️ for staying up late tonight to give us this livestream breakdown. Now it’s time for you to get your rest 💤
1:04 song choice, Barry Manilow, Can't Smile Without You.
Maybe instead of Lady Gaga singing Pokerface they'll change it up to JOKER FACE 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
It sounds like they've given this Harley a lot of Punchline's qualities...
Hmm maybe the Harley character was always in control, even in the original animated series. Makes you think.
I actually think a big BIG part of this will revolve around fame! Talking about what fame does to someone as in getting people to love you and someone trying to use your popularity to become famous themselves aka Harley doing the falling in love routine just to get in Joker's fame ! I think Gaga would 100% relate to that kind of story !!
Thought I am so excoted to see villain Harley and be Jokers partner, I truly hope they show how toxic the relationship is and that she goes independent in the end. Her being an abuse survivor is what made me love her. It will be so weird if she become the true abuser.
my biggest issue with this version of the joker is all this “feeling bad” for him, i just can’t get past it, that’s not who the joker is or is supposed to be…
joker is so kind
A part of me thinks this is actually not a musical where Joker and Harley sing. I think none of them is gonna sing, I think there's gonna be music, sure, but no singing from the main characters
Oh they’re gonna sing that’s the whole reason they hired Gaga, but all singing will likely be imaginary
Not for me because I don’t like Clowns but I like you guys
Agree... I think Harley will be abusing and manipulating Arthur in this version of their relationship.
I don’t know… on one hand as it stands alone it looks interesting. On the other hand, Harley manipulating the Joker? That’s not Harley. Harley is manipulated and abused by Joker not the other way around. That is what makes her character so tragic.
lets wait for the movie before we jump to conclusiond
Can’t wait for this !!!
This is gonna be a musical, right? Are songs originals or will be covers like Moulan Rouge? Interesting only 1 cover song was used in trailer.
look up the meaning of FOLIE A DEUX explains a lot about this movie
Am I the only one who totally fell for the trap? 😅😅😅 I was surprised when Grace said she’s playing him