Is it Smooth Enough? Testing Polysmooth with Polysher and Primer!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.พ. 2020
- The Polysmooth filament from Polymaker can be smoothed with isopropyl alcohol in their Polysher machine. Does it smooth enough take paint? Here I give it a test and find out just how much models are smoothed.
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"a little slow and a little loud. just like me"
comedy gold joel
love ur channel by the way
Oh I'm pinning this one!
@@3DPrintingNerd thanks!
@@3DPrintingNerd i am a semi-beginner in FDM 3d printing, but I pretty much learned everything thanks to your channel. I want to get into resin printing, but I dont know if it is safe enough. I would love to see a safety comparison between, lets say the mars and the photon or the mars pro.
I've realized these things are basically just humidifiers. If you put alcohol into a normal cold mist humidifier you'd probably get the same effect.
Apparently this thing costs ~$300, for what is essentially an ultrasonic mister + turn table + linear actuator & RGB led in a nice enclosure. You could achieve a better result for about a 1/3 of the price with a DIY solution consisting of a large plastic tub, a cheap ebay turntable, a mister, and a small fan to evenly distribute the fumes better- oh, and an egg timer. No need for the light show and control interface that randomly stops working, or the gimmicky raise and lower feature...
Id be careful with the mister, could start a fire. Dont leave it unattended.
@@SuicideNeil Wait until AliExpress and the Chinese produce it for $150 or less
@@tonysplace8009 Indeed. Competition drives the price down and forces manufacturers to improve. Either that, or the market gets flooded with death-traps; fun either way... :D
You need to buy the mister units that are meant for essential oils, normal water misters do not work well and in some cases not at all.
Good stuff Joel, nice clear test. Thanks for sharing!
I was a PolySher kickstarter backer, and I've had 3 units for a couple of years now. Overall, the PVB filament is too expensive for me to monetize, and the nebulizer performance is hit and miss. It looks like you got a good one, but most put out half the volume of mist and at a lower height than the one in this video. I find I spend at least 5-6 raisings fiddling with the nebulizer, but once I get it working I get about 12 or so smoothings out of it before I have to fiddle with it or replace it. It's perfect for artistic applications if you're looking to mimic ceramics. For mechanical or fitting parts I would avoid polishing individual parts as the edges will get rounded.
I’ve always had the thought of getting this in the back of my mind, good to see it out to the test
Wait, i know you! XD
Chad Files AXceed ring a bell? 😂
I’ve tried this filament out a bit with a home brew (ultrasonic) mister in a plastic tote. It worked but was a bit finicky. The longer you expose the part to, the smoother it can get. You can get beautiful finishes with no lines. I’ve also just used a fine mist spray bottle in a well ventilated area and get good results as well. I spray the part, wait a bit, if there are areas that need more, I just spray those surfaces on the model and repeat as needed. It is messy and waist-full of the alcohol this way but the results are still quite good. Caution though as You can reach a point that you end up melting the part so slow and steady yields good results.
Great test, it did good job of showing the actual capabilities of the machine. The shinier finish is due to the part being smoother. Smooth is shiny, no matter what you work on.
Thanks for sharing👍😀
Can you talk about hot isostatic pressing (HIP)?
It help increasing part density from 98 to 100% metal.
Very interesting as I have been looking at buying a polished for me 3d car model panels
nice love the stuff thay come out with :D awesome brother and a awesome friend
For the price of the "polisher", you can buy a SLA printer who would give WAY better result. It's really not worth it.
Great point or just built your own "polisher" with a little fan and evaporation which happens normally anyway. :) This is what many companies do anyway, I worked in science and when something failed I carefully opened a unit (usually 500 Euro's or so of whatever general equipment we had, not crazy expensive ofcourse otherwise I wouldn't :) ) and it was shocking how simple some units were (whatever they are). I made one myself for like 30 Euro's. Gotta love companies.
@@VincentGroenewold I was also looking into using PLA/PHA which I heard smooths well with acetone... but it's too toxic.
Even the price of the filament. $40 for 750, essentially $53/kg. ABS vaporsmooths way better even if it's toxic/more dangerous.
@@androiduberalles I was planning on doing this at home with the safe way. Using a tote bin lined with towels and spray the inside...
What's crazy is when this first came out years ago, there were no affordable SLA machines. NOW, we have many to choose from. It's crazy how fast technology catches up.
Kind of cool, but I doubt it's worth the extra expense. Thanks Joel!
and i love the transparient stuff i use honey comb as my infill cuz its looks awesome and its like what you would see in future movies as there floors or walls
thanks Joel, I would like to see more experiments with polysmooth, esp smaller models like 15, 25, and 35mm scales
Check out the partnership between Infinite Dimensions and Polymaker, they created a lot of models for 28mm game set in PolySmooth
Looks like the smoothing process works really well for up-facing surfaces, pretty well for side surfaces, and I would guess not as well for overhangs. Pre-sanding would probably improve the effectiveness.
Pretty good for times when you need to look less like a printed part.
I would still like to get some models printed, then sand one, and then polish. I wonder if the texture left by sanding would appear in the polished prints?
Love the primer on your high-five fingertip. Matches mine..
TWINSIES
I need to get my polysher back out, not used it in a while just wish they made more colours of filament. The lowering mechanism of my polysher died on me not long after buying it, luckily it was an easy fix.
Great vid!You should do one about alternative ways to smooth polysmooth.I love this filament but I think the polisher is too expensive and also I hear it breaks a lot.
Agreed :)
I have had 3 Polysher units. All 3 have failed, Also I have used 10 different Nebulizers and all of them have failed. The Polysmooth filament is nice. Once treated and let to air cure for about 1 week gives a very strong part that is more flexible than PLA so is less prone to breaking. Keep the polysmooth sealed when not using as it is hydroscopic and will give you stringy prints if not dry. In the end building my own system of misting the alcohol works best.
Nice informative video, but tells me (imho) that i have to wait a little more for the next breatkthrough in 3d printing
What about air blaster to smooth the piece? I saw great results. Can you try it?
Good Video, gonna subscribe 👌🏼
If you eventually update the machine and re test, could you compare it to SLA prints...pros and cons?
So is this polisher just like a fogger using ultrasonic modules? I wonder if you got fumes by heating up the IPA to 45 - 50'c, would this be better or not than using nebuliser modules, which every type they might be?
Would it make sense to lay it in different positions. I would try laying a figurine on it back, on its front in addition to standing up. Neat device, I imagine that types of things will come down in price soon enough.
It's an intriguing process. I agree the other variables that are worth exploring. You need to investigate them and show us the results. The motor-assisted lowering/raising platform is another thing that could go bad. A clam-shell front [with a latch] [or a lift-off top w/ latch(s)] would be a better solution - in my opinion anyway. Nice addition to the arsenal of "things" in a Maker Shop.
I think I'm onboard with what you're thinking. The slow moving platform is a fun idea on paper, but for actual use, I can get in the way.
would be good test how transparent those are too after smoothing as some technic make foggy inside based on prusa3d video about transparent filament so would it remove need of wet sanding
3d printing general did one of those - the answer is, pretty damn clear. :)
Looks like the areas facing up have a better finish. You should give it a shot with the Mini Joel laying on his back face up.
@3DPrintingNerd I seen a video where they used just isopropyl in a spray bottle with better results, made stuff look like glass. Maybe that's something you could test .
as usuall, great video. I still wouldnt purchase it, so thank you for taking the time to review the product for me:) My tevo tornado can print PLA very very smoth and i have no mods. I also use the 2in1 filler primer from rustolem with excellent results. If i use filacube engineering grey PLA, theirs is specifically made to be sanded with sand paper.
It seems like smoothing works best as it's horizontal to gravity. Wonder if layers on the sides do vanish more when the model is rotated while in there
Joel, doing the sanding test! Please.
Unique watching this today as they discuss their upcoming schedule. Anyway, I'm new, so new I'm expecting my printer today or tomorrow. Will this work with PLA?
Nope
Yeah would love to see you Dremel with a scotch Brite flap wheel (on a slow setting) to them first. Maybe add another outer wall as well?
I have the Polysmooth filament and was wondering if PolySmooth filament fumes are toxic or not toxic when printing
My smoothing machine worked great but stopped turning on for some reason. Can you show how to smooth polysmooth without the machine using IPA?
What about soft soft sanding, polysmooth with polysher and then the primer?
Got a question about resin printing. Is it possible to do dual/multi color 3d printing with resin 3d printers? Like can we do pause printing then switching basins with different colored resins?
Yes and no. Yes you can, no it won't give the look you're looking for. Look up Grafit on Twitter and have a look at what he has done with simple alcohol inks: twitter.com/grafitomi/status/1226609758964211713
So will you get similar results using that machine with any PLA??? so with abs you use acetone and pla alcohol? thanks
No, the isopropyl alcohol only smooths PVB based filaments
The reason for the sheen on the smoothed model's:
The models have a micro porous surface which the smoothing process removes by chemically melting a very thin layer of plastic on the surface. The smoothing process essentially fills the micro pores providing a uniform surface, hence the reason the smoothed model's have a sheen to them and the non smoothed one's are flat and almost gritty looking. The melting process is also the reason why you loose the tiniest bit of detail too. You would loose the same amount of detail via sanding and priming as well, so really it shouldn't be a concern (for model making).
can we use PETG from a different company and get good results with this?
Joel the best video on this you can do would be to cover the possible firm ware update for the polyshure units. I have owned 3 of these and 10 nebulizer units so Polymaker knows me and I have never been contacted about any update fixes for the problems.
I'll try to find out more info!
Do you mean you have contacted Polymaker and they havent solved your issue?
The supports were held up by the force
It needs a vortex fan.. just a tiny little air current to swirl the mist and even out the distribution.
There is a fan at the top periodically swirling the air, fan is a double edged sword as it would also smash the mist down if used too much. (Actually the fan is full power at the end to smash down the mist before it opens :) )
I've never had trouble with a large jar and a timer but If you have money to spend this is probably quicker and more consistent.
Edit: I use Acetone for my filament type but its a similar concept.
I don't have a filament printer, but I do have a 3D pen and smoothing the builds is a massive pain. This may help an the final smoothing stage! I will look into getting some
Make Anything made a video where he used PolySmooth with the 3d pen and smooth it, it looks awesome! :)
What’s the large printer behind him with the clear top cover propped up by wood blocks?
Raise 3D N2 I believe.
Some time ago I did my smoothing in an unneeded pot with aceton(do not try this at home!). Important for time: solvents and temperature relate.
Those models are not very fine-detailed, but it's important to know that chemical-melting your surface always goes on the cost of your printed details. Yes, the surface gets glossy.
so how was Malta in late March 2020? :P
You should print something in case mode. If it smooths the inside and outside would it become a lot more transparent?
Oh yes! it will become crystal clear :D Check out PolySmooth transparent on youtube, many videos to make polysmooth transparent :D
I think the better test shapes would be these ones: sphere, cube, pyramid, dodecahedron.
This would be the perfect testing designs, and all could be printed simultaneously in a single printing.
My guess will be the sphere and the dodecahedron will give the most interesting results.
I bet you're right.
@@3DPrintingNerd Since you're heading to Malta you going to be checking out Popeye Village?
@@theherrdark4834 I don't know! 3D Maker Noob will be my tour guide.
What would happen if you just immersed it in IPA for a few minutes and then let hang dry? Seems like an expensive machine to spray IPA on it. Love your videos! Have learned a ton!
That's a good question, I don't honestly know. I'll have to try it.
are you going to come make to Michigan?
When is it?
@@3DPrintingNerd you cam to the children's museum in Flint one year and i missed it due to moving on the day you were here i was going to come and bring my son
@@bobfenner226 I remember coming to a maker space in Flint, that was fun and DANG IT I'm sorry we missed each other! I really hope to be back in Michigan in the near future. If that happens, I'll definitely announce it!
From my experiments, hot acetone vapor is WAY more efficient than cold vapor or this kind of ultrasound vapor thing.
But, it's still more efficient on the lower parts because, well, it's vapor, so it's heavier than air :(
So, while mini-Joel was soaking up alcohol, was real Joel doing the same? Great comparison. Thanks.
That just looks like an explosion waiting to happen.
You know, A LOT of people said that when it first came out years ago. Polymaker even showed the unit with candles around it I think. So far, no explosions. Maybe once I get my new one in we do a safety test.
Sounds perfect then - explosions are awesome!
@@eyeTelevision
Yeah, you know, because experiments need positive controls, too 😈🤓
wow!!!! that new Raise printer looks a lot like a microwave.. lol
I can't wait for MRRF, it will be my first festival
See you there!
Hello! what kind of camera are you using??
Don't know if anyone can help me, I'm using FreeCad and cura on a Ender3, stuff prints really well however is always about 0.2 mm bigger than it should be. Is this because I'm printing with a 0.4 width? So if it doesn't divide into 0.4 it will always oversize the object however I tried to print something 8mm which is a multible of 0.4? I have checked the E-steps that didn't make any diffrence. Looking at cura everything looks fine like it says it should be 8mm. I know that there is errors and so it will never be perfect but 0.2mm seems pretty big and its always bigger rather a mix of bigger and smaller. Maybe there is a probem with the steps per mm? however that seems unlikey cause I have a small slit in the part and that is being printed too small... any advice would be awesome.
How much will the raise 3D e2 be in the us? Looks promising :) @3dprintingnerd
I don't have exact pricing details yet. I think Raise should have an official announcement soon!
Joel we always appreciate your memes
AND I ALWAYS APPRECIATE YOU
@@3DPrintingNerd you made my day lol
Hey Joel, Got a side question for you.... I'm getting buried in empty spools.... What do you do with all the spools you end up with?
Not Joel, but in my house we use them to spool christmas lights onto to keep them untangled :D
The place near me buys them back.
@@MagikarpsSplash What city? Think of shipping costs.... Do they have a minimum number?
@@GrandpaBill Melbourne, Aus. I dont think they have a minimum as my mate just trades his in when he buys new spools.
I think print, sand, smooth, prime would be the best workflow. The largest layer lines would be knocked down, and even some plastic dust filling the largest cracks before the smoothing evenes everything out.
I guess the idea is that it would be useful for models that you cannot sand because of the surface texture or too many details :)
You should print a 28mm model and run it through the polysher and see how smooth it gets before you lose too much detail
Check out the partnership between Infinite Dimensions and Polymaker you will be amazed by what PolySmooth can do in the 28mm world :)
Cool. Reminiscent of the early golden age of 3DPN videos
This is EXACTLY what I was going for. I even filmed it with the camera I originally used years ago!
Yes it good put how can i make part for my RC hele when it got to be right on ?????????????
Can you make a 3d printed pc case ?
try sanding both before and after smoothing. you could also try 99% for less time or 71%(74%) for longer times.
this may sound stupid, but will it work as a support melter? since it melted those brims.. i know it's cheaper to just trim them :D
I think it would be faster to just dip the model, as it is done for PVA when dipping it in water to dissolve the support :)
Might wanna flip the model upside down while smoothing to even out the process.
Suggestion for future smoothing videos...use a color where we can actually see layer lines well to begin with. Very difficult to see them to start with those colors.
Heh, yeah. This wasn’t the best color choice. It’s all I had. I’ll get some different colors in.
I was looking for a palette +, but I can't find anywhere to buy it. Do you know where to get one?
That's a very good question, I'm not sure. Reach out to Mosaic, they may know of resellers who have some old ones in stock.
@@3DPrintingNerd will do
We need a new way of printing. Maybe some sort of microsculping while it lays down.
Maybe the nozzle lips could be actuated to shape the bead.
I would be interested to find a clear coat that we can use on top of the filler or paint. I fear any clear sprays on the market that i know of, will melt the print. Certain parts would be ok with a mat finish but i have some that would be much nicer with a clear finish.
There are no paints or clear coats I know of that will hurt PLA.
Nice video, it’s really hard to see the finish with clear filament though.
Yoda's reaction :D
I am curious if anyone has tried thinning airbrush paint with IPA and spraying a base coat on this material with that?
spraying IPA on PolySmooth would give good results (I tried :) )
Would a $2 spray bottle with IPA do the same job as this $$$ machine? In 1/10 the time and 1/100 the cost?
3:30 agree
I know its an older vid, but can this machine work with ASA filament?
No. It has parts made of ABS that would melt in acetone.
The red light on means Roxanne is working?
😂🤣
Here's what I suggest for the error display: a 25 cent 7 segment LED digit display. Have it flash an E followed by a number (i.e. E 2 for the evap) this way a consumer doesn't have to take a shot in the dark as to what to get to fix an error 😒..
I'm on board with that :)
@@3DPrintingNerd thanks!!
Maybe we couldnt see it on the video but there are only two errors: nebulizer connection, not close well. So depending on which LED lights up you know the error (there are icons on the LED) :)
Maybe we couldnt see it on the video but there are only two errors: nebulizer connection, not close well. So depending on which LED lights up you know the error (there are icons on the LED) :)
Polysher : layer line smoothing :: Mcable : anti-aliasing
To me the smoothing is more evident on the mini Yoda than on the mini Joel.
Honestly for the extra price of the filament and vaporizing system you're better off buying a spray can of filler.
Could always try setting print onto plate in different positions to get more even smoothing. Why not just wipe it down yourself with alcohol soaked cloth?
I think that's an option.
That right there is a million view thumbnail
idea: what if you dual extruded clear polyfill on the outside and have a colored squiggly infill.
If it wasn't for the price for that filament, I would use it... but I just print at .09mm layer height and print REALLLLLLLL slow...
.09? What printer do you have? Most stepper motors have a "magic number" in even increments .08/.16/.24/.32
@@technodrone313 I have the Robo C2, and I have been able to print at .09mm layer height... I don't do it unless I have a precision part that I don't want to spend too much time sanding. Or models that have INSANE details. Back in 2018, I printed up a Boulder model straight from ZBrush with ALL of the details INTACT!
What about maker faire Vienna? :D
I don't think I'll be able to make it there :(
Does this process work well with PLA?
Nevermind, I looked it up.
I see you answered your own question before I could type one :)
Can you 3d print a hand with veins?
maybe the veins could be hollow tubes you put a colored liquid in or use leds
so ultimaker is still your printer of choice instead of Prusa? Why?
I have many machines, just happened to print these on the Ultimaker. The Polysmooth I have was 2.85 and wouldn’t fit on the Prusa anyway ;)
Lots of room for improvement. Get rid of the elevator platform, use a single fan above or below the platform for an updraft and maybe use a flexible top for the platform. No reason to overly complicate a simple process. Neat idea though.
The elevator platform allows the print to come out from the top so that the alcohol mist stays inside, it is slow to avoid the print to tip over during the motion. (could be improve though). There is a fan at the top already, fans have to be used carefully with mist because if you increase the chance of droplets collision in the mist, you kill the mist lol. I think the "over complication" comes from making it as a product, of course DIY are easy and cheap to make but you cannot sell it because it wont pass any certification lol. (IMO) (however im sure there are ways of improvements staying within the safety rules :) )
I use spray putty to smooth ,as long as there is no extremely fine detail it works like a dream.
SPRAY putty?!? That’s a thing???
@@3DPrintingNerd yes and it's like magic 🧙♂️
so it basically melts the outer layers.
Hahaha! I had to stop the video at 3:03 and laugh out loud for two minutes. :D
Could this be done with an airbrush?
You know, yes, I believe it could!