People Are Angry With GCN & Bike Muggings On The Rise - The Wild Ones Podcast Ep.30
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.ค. 2024
- Check out the audio versions of the podcast here: podfollow.com/the-wild-ones/view
This week we’re joined by pro mechanic Nic from Backyard Bike Shop to chat the cost of bikes (and whether it can be justified), bike muggings, strange goings on at Sports Direct and more. Here’s the full breakdown:
00:00 New Year’s antics
00:30 People are angry with GCN
14:59 Melissa Dennis death & Rohan Dennis arrest
15:56 The rise of bike-jackings
25:02 The great Sports Direct superbike mystery
34:18 Why the industry needs to cater more to average cyclists
38:05 We need to educate drivers!
40:43 The problem with e-bikes
41:05 The cycling industry needs a shake-up
41:53 Overrated/Underrated: average speed
44:55 Overrated/Underrated: 650b wheels
49:40 Overrated/Underrated: Muc Off
52:21 Overrated/Underrated: frame bags
53:05 Overrated/Underrated: suspension on gravel bikes
54:21 Jimmi’s Christmas Eve error (FUOTW)
55:35 Nic got ‘Home Aloned’ (FUOTW)
56:27 Dry vs wet lube - what’s the difference?
If you’d like us to send in a question, story, some good news, things you’d like us to discuss or anything else, email us at wildonespodcast@cademedia.co.uk
Thanks and see you next time.
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My issue with GCN (as someone who enjoys 80% of their videos), is that they don't have the view of consumer a lot of times, being ex pros and having a lot of sponsoring. You shouldn't argue why bikes are expensive, but why they should be cheaper
Name one industry where prices are less than 5 years ago...
@@dominicbritt Look how inexpensive televisions have become. Sure, there are OLED sets that are quite expensive, but an average 55" LED 4K set can be had for a small fraction of what such a set cost just a few years ago when such sets were high-end. In the bike industry, the bikes that were high end a few years ago should be enjoying the same price cuts, but they aren't. Instead, they're hardly being built at all because the industry doesn't want us to buy such bikes.
@@rangersmith4652 not a really good example, high end tv always have a new feature or tech to sell while you can get older tech cheaply made for peanuts. That's the same as taking a Trek VS a Walmart bike...
@@rangersmith4652in the last few years those prices also stagnated. Btw you can still buy cheap bikes like you still can buy expensive tv’s. People just don’t buy enough cheap bikes.
I like their content and their challenges
One thing getting left out of the Motorcycle argument is all the law standards they have to meet, emissions, safety, you name it. Nearly everything on a Motorcycle needs to be certified and compliant and many different countries have different laws and you must know them all. I don't think this is the case at all for bicycle manufacturers. That's largely a self-regulated industry, no?
I believe there are safety standard that manufactures have to meet to sell in the EU.
@@rob-c.these are CE certifications for safety. There are safety regulations.
Motorcycles have economies of scale on their side as well. Bicycles are assembled from components by hand, and I doubt its anything like the volumes of motorcycles.
Carbon as such as frame, wheel material, has been around for 20 years! where is the trickle down that they are talking about? This is just GREED from Marketing and CEOs that want to scam you all.
Motorbikes can reach much higher prices than bikes, 300kph easily, so the components also needs to be tested a lot more and as you mentioned emission and safety regulations. yes, you can buy a scooter for 4K and a bike for 15k, but usually people buy cheaper bikes and more expensive motorbikes.
GCN changed quite a bit once much of its content became sponsored. When they are riding climbs in Mallorca and they spend a segment showing the bikes they are riding, the video is effectively a 20 or 30 minute commercial for those bikes. Being paid directly by the industry leads to defending the industry whether conscious or not. This morning Ollie and Alex were talking about indoor training. At some point Ollie says, "don't get the $40 turbo trainer, get the $400 Wahoo Kicker". I don't think it's even conscious for them at this point, they are just in the mode of sell, sell, sell. Today I will ride my Giant Tempo spinning bike just as I have for each of the previous 20 winters. GCN has some good content but always keep in mind what they are selling.
I loved the video about the "spontaneous" visit at alex house where he presented his "perma" wahoo indoor cycling set up, just to ride the same bike which was supposed to be permanently in his indoor set up in the next video outdoors. Ofc he had only the latest wahoo stuff looking like it was never ever used at his house.
Since GCN+ went bankrupt the yt channel in german and english just became trash tv.
Even topics which are interesting to me like "does to much sugar/gels during training cause diabetes" is presented in a way to sell stuff. For me its even hard to watch their insta stuff now, because its just about hitting your face with a canyon bike as much as they can. I dont mind them riding canyon, orbea or what ever manufacturer is paying them to ride. But i want them to be honest about stuff and not tell me how great something is just because they get payed for it.
Exactly. GCN has some good content but you have to remember it's wrapped in a commercial so they are only going to say good things about that product. For reviews I like channels like The Ride with Ben Delaney, his reviews are honest. He has a clothing sponsor so he does not review clothing at all. He does not have a bike or tire sponsor so those review as his own opinions, he is not receiving any money for his review.
GCN has been garbage for years now.
Ollie is an absolute snob, that's why. If it isn't the cream of the crop stuff, he doesn't like it. I have a dumb trainer and speed+cadence sensors, whole set up cost me £70. I get the same training as I would with a smart trainer.
@@nicolas2838 That's a little unfair I consider my trainer setup permeant in the sense that the Trainer, Climb, Rocker, mat etc. All sit in front of a dedicated screen most of the time, and there is usually *A* bike on it, just not always the same bike.
I’m not a cyclist. I have an old old mountain bike that’s broken and can’t go out. But I’ve find this channel recently and have loved every minute of the content and discussions! Thanks!
To be fair, there was also a GCN video a couple of months ago "the bike you want vs. the bike you need" or videos on what to look out if you buy second hand. The presenters are all quite humble characters, who know how privileged they are to ride the bikes they are riding.
They are also well informed on bicycles but don't know the first thing about motorcycles.
Most of them are normal humble people, Simon did all those videos with the cheap ebike and loved it. Ollie on the other hand is a legit snob
@@gregmcnicoll5520 I think Ollie is just super into the technical geeky side of things and it comes across as being snobby. I don't really get what people expect out of gcn. I think they usually do a pretty good job making the point that you don't need an expensive bike or upgrades. They wouldn't exist if they didn't take marketing money and advertise products though.
The Muck Off 5ltr motorcycle cleaner (2 for £25) when I got it, is identical to the vastly more expensive bike version. I checked with Muck Off and also checked the very detailed spec sheets
Cyclists are rich cows!!
This sounds like Bicycle equivalent of Pink Tax, Razors, Shampoo, bodywash that are marketed for female cosumers cost somewhat more than the normal one.
@@TheRimBrakeGuymore like they’re getting ripped off!
The new Path Less Pedaled podcast with Jeff Frane did a really good job of getting into the weeds of getting a frame manufactured
Fred TV
I'm impressed by how grounded the folks at Path Less Pedaled are.
Well worth a watch!
I thought the same thing! I thought it was very informative. Also, check out some of GC Performance youtube channel. He goes into comparing bike prices several years ago until now.
Jeff's a cool dude, local to me. Huge on hosting rides and giving back to the community. The other day he had some people from Maxway, where they build their frames, over to the home shop of Wilde for a tour. It's nice to buy from a brand you can put faces to
Marketing and R & D are the 2 words that manufacturers use to excuse their greed
Profit due to inflated sales prices suckers are willing to pay, some of this goes back into R&D to create 'more marketing opportunies' to sucker more people.
Putting it bluntly, the bike industry...the people at the top are just trying to make money. They don't care about value or the consumer and the reality is, they are deliberately making bikes more fragile which coincides with lower weight so they will be more disposable, and the consumer will need to buy a replacement bicycle more quickly. Btw, planned obsolescence is the business model of auto manufacturers now as well as society devolves to a more disposable society.
I add 'future trickle down' to your list
they could just stop, paying everyone having 1k followers on insta to ride their bike or wear their kits and it already would save so much wasted money.
All those companies want to become apple of the bike industrie. But they dont understand that there was one person creating apple out of unique ideas no one else had. And the marketing and price tag was just an additional feature to the product, not the main feature of uniqueness. Since this one person is gone apple isnt the same unique company and the myth about it, is slowly fading.
When specialized did win 10 grand tours in a row they could argue to be the most expensive company because they had the best bike. Or when the test values of their bikes in an independent windtunnel did stand out, while their bikes weight 6.8 kg. Even when their bikes are super robust or you can get a free service when ever you wish too.
Its not the case, so the price is just a fantasy product of a marketing guy.
For the trek bike on the other hand a lot of the price is included in the color scheme.
Especially when the Chinese factory has its own designers doing a yearly catalog every year to suggest to the bike companies.. The business model is ridiculously funny the more you dig into it.
Applies to a lot of industries, like the word "emergency"
With Nick's point about cars being a weapon and educating drivers about it, as someone who was seriously injured after getting hit by a negligent driver, the number of people who blamed ME for even riding my bike in the first place was shocking. I even quit my job over one of my supervisors insulting me behind my back about it. This was in the US where the attitude is bikes are children's toys, so we definitely need an educational advertising campaign to teach people about road safety especially with regards to bikes.
Funny that bikes are considered kids toys in this U.S., yet most Americans seem to want to dtive around in something similar to a Tonka Toy Truck.
@@whitej85 Don't get me started… I just visited the UK for the first time and almost wanted to cry over seeing how many practical sized cars there were and how much better the drivers were overall (that's not a joke). The number of Tonka Trucks and massive SUVs in big cities in the US is a disaster for road safety, but everyone wants to blame the bikes.
@@ncc1107 completely agree 👍 I’m from the Uk but even we are starting to see the proliferation of larger&taller pickups and SUVs. When need authorities to be putting sensible restrictions on the size of vehicles.
I visited Bogotá, Colombia, recently, where I was thrilled to discover that, in addition to the city's lauded bicycle infrastructure, practically every parking lot or garage in the city has space allocated for bicycles, usually with pretty decent security arrangements, and available at very low cost. I usually paid around US$1-$2 to leave my rented bicycle for several hours, and a few of them I used even charged $0 for bikes.
Well, it's a poor country.
The issue is greedflation. During covid companies realized that people would pay more due to demand and they are still trying to maintain those prices. Many industries are now paying the price for this greed and we are seeing more and more stock and super discounts. The issue is I doubt prices will ever go down just same MSRP with discounts eventually.
Lol it's not "greedflation". That's literally called supply and demand.
If people are willing to keep paying the increasing cost, then it behooves you to raise your price because you will end up having more orders than you can handle, which can trash your supply chain and have a really negative outlook on your product if it is never in stock.
The problem is the consumer paying for it. Vote with your wallet. As he said, things sell for what people are prepared to pay.
Just because we're out of covid and people are still paying the price isn't companies fault, people have to STOP buying until prices come back down.
It's basic economics.
@@Real28 I love basic economics lessons from someone who doesn't understand economics. But to explain and I will say it slowly if it was pure inflation then industries would not have made record profits during these time. They were exploiting inflation to create an excessive profits. Look at GPUs, bikes, cars, etc they all make record profits during this "supposed lack of supply" they weren't selling at inflation prices they were pricing things 3-5x inflation and raking in money. If inflation was up 20% you would expect a 20% increase in price not 50 to 100% increase.
This is just basic economics.
@@MrMuggslythat little rant had absolutely no relation to anything he said
@@demonstructieActually he hit the nail on the head. My local grocery store wants $5 for a loaf of bread that used to be 2.50 and costs 1.00 to make today instead of 50cents it used to cost before "inflation". The correct new price should be $3, not $5 - that extra 2 bucks is someone's Porsche money.
Let start with the problem of 10 million different BB standards 😭
Put another way, with a few dozen different "standards," there really is NO standard.
Headset's are even worse :(
@@nicvieri2627 if you ignore all the proprietary crap especially with internal cable routing through the headset there's really only 3 types and a couple different sizes.
EC (external cup) ZS (zero stack) and IS (integrated)
but remember that in the motorcycle and automotive industries there is also very little commonality amongst similar components.
@@gerrymcbride6429 I can buy a Yamaha mt09 for less than a top end bike from trek
And a mt07 for less than a well specced carbon road bike from trek
GCN is a marketing tool.
Everyone of there video has a P on the thumbnail for paid partnership…
Without sponsoring they couldn´t produce videos in the scale they are from worldwide.
Well said man!
Most of the videos here are specially when they ask you subscribe
I started following GCN around 2013-14.
Back then it was talking about how to do maintenance tasks on your own bikes, how to improve your FTP, riding in groups basics, training plans.
Now it's all silly challenges, crazy bikes, justifying huge price increases.
As you said, bikes are worth what people will pay for them... and for about two years many people were willing to spend quite a lot on bikes. Specialized, Trek, Cannondale and others raised prices 20%-40% during the pandemic as demand spiked due to the closure of indoor exercise options. Consumers were flush with cash as they couldn't spend it on vacations / eating out or were given disposable money through stimulus checks. This was compounded by lower bike supply due to manufacturing disruptions. Higher demand + lower supply = higher prices. As a result, an SWorks Tarmac went from $10k in 2019 to $14k in 2021. Trek started selling a Madone build with 105 Di2 for $8k. Scott is weirdly selling their top-end Foil for $16k. The Allez Sprint with 105 mechanical and garbage wheels iss $3k. Used bikes were briefly selling for full retail on TPC.
The other thing that happened is that the industry stopped selling reasonable entry-level bikes. A big factor in that is the rise of electronic groups. Shimano and SRAM have both basically stopped selling reasonably priced mechanical groupsets. 105 Di2 sells for roughly triple was 105 mechanical used to cost. Even 105 mechanical is now selling for what Dura Ace used to cost in 2015. SRAM has completely abandoned enthusiast mechanical. There are very few new or revised entry-level bikes. The Scott Speedster and Giant Contend are still being sold but are fairly ancient designs. The base Specialized Allez has become more of a commuter-focused road bike with a cheap build.
Now all of that has been reversed: inflation has sucked excess cash out of everyone's wallets, bikes are wildly overstocked (and panic-bought pandemic bikes have flooded the used market) and anyone that wanted a bike has already purchased one. Demand has cratered and now prices are falling. All of this was extremely predictible in 2020, and was predicted by basically every industry analyst. I don't think this is ending any time soon, this correction will last at least through 2024. The market for higher-end bikes just isn't that big and the induced demand and lower supply of the pandemic was a once-in-a-lifetime collision of factors. Prices have already started to moderate across the industry, but they clearly have further to fall.
There is a whole market of commuter bikes no one ever talks about. It’s all about road bikes. Bianchi for example have a huge commuter bike portfolio and likely sell more of them than performance road bikes. For companies dedicated to performance road bikes with nothing else to fall back on they will be hurting now.
Another great episode! Nic's a great addition to the podcast team.
This is the only podcast I ever listen to. It’s so easy to relate to you guys.
Buying a bike that costs more than a car when you’re not a pro rider making money from it is crazy
Older dudes making money like to think they could have been pros with the right bike.
💀
Short answer: no
@@LaurentiusTriariuslol you literally just described the retired dude with 12 bikes that I know😂😂😂
It’s completely subjective - if you’ve got a lot of spare money and spend a lot of time on the bike, the value equation works out. If you are struggling to pay rent, absolutely not. It’s all diminishing returns at the high end anyway, said as someone with a new custom geo Ti bike!
I value my bike more than I would value a car. I don't get stuck in traffic, my health improves and I don't have all the other costs associated with owing a car (Maintenance, tyres, gas, taxes)
I don't have a car by choice, and I'm more inclined to buy an expensive bike than a car.
@@paopixel You're bike doesn't have tyres!?
This episode spoke to my core on so many levels - from bikes being geared (literally!!!) to regular folks, to Jimmi's confessionary love of the hated step-child of the 883 Iron (as a previous owner of one with a 1200 SCREAMING EAGLE **que eagle sound, which is actually red-tailed-HAWK sound** conversion). Keep 'em coming, it's great company as I ride the currently cold, desolate plains of the great American midwest, albeit currently sad and snowless. King Regards, my friends!
Happy New Year Wild ones! love the content, and Nick's take, would be awesome to have the four of you in a future pod!
I sure get why people are annoyed with GCN helping justify stupid expensive bikes.
Thanks Jimmi , Nic, Emily and "Emily from the future " AND..I got a Redshift stem , after seeing Jimmi get all their stuff , and I love it ! I am OAF , crashed in July and seperated a shoulder and its not the same . I got the stem as a gift , put it on and immediately noticed......nothing , at first . All the small bumps were gone , but after? I didn't ache half as much , my whole upper body felt better , Thanks again. I learn a lot from you folks . P.S. wishing Francis and his dad the best...I am going to have a biopsy tomorrow , and then decide on my own treatment . And so it goes , eh?
I have just come back from a trip to Japan with a visit to the Shimano museum in Osaka to boot. What I noticed during my travels is the high number of road bikes with rim brakes, and group sets such as Tiagra and Claris. That includes the road bikes in cities used for commuting as well as those on famous routes such as the Shiminami Kaido. Perhaps it comes down to the same reason that Heineken is a cheap beer in the Netherlands, but marketed as an exclusive beer in other countries?
Great episode! Well done! I have a Brompton and have an apple tag taped to it after I was almost mugged in London around 6am a couple of years ago. 6 guys on e-bikes. They seemed to be looking for mobiles and I only got away as the first 4 didn’t notice me and the 2 that did couldn’t decide if they wanted my bike or wanted to stay with their group. It was just a short chase but I was shooketh! Took me a few weeks before cycling again.
That wasn’t the case when thieves broke into our bike shed and stole my colleague’s bike I’d borrowed to train for a bike holiday 😢
The most sane podcast for cycling; grounded takes for us amateurs and pro news for those into the racing side.
Really having fun listening to Nic, who really supports my philosophy of cycling!
Completely agree about groupsets. It’s not just initial cost of 12 speed, it’s the ongoing maintenance costs look at the cost of a 12 speed cassette vs a 10 speed. You really don’t need it either 2x10 is perfect. Don’t get me started on wireless either 😅
Oh and completely internal routing too through an integrated cockpit . Go get your headset serviced and see how much that costs you
Just do it your self, it is not difficult and you can give yourself a pat on the back.@@a1white
I grew up on 1x 5 speed mechanical and it was fine.... I now have 2x 2x 12speed electronic group-sets and its still fine...What does that actually matter to anyone other than me?
@@gerrymcbride6429 it doesn’t, have what the hell you want but the comment was about how to keep bike costs down. 2x12 di2 is lovely I’m sure, but will cost you more when parts need replacing.
@@a1whiteor do it yourself and it costs you bugger all.
Excellent podcast, thanks. Excellent questions and answers at end - they were very relevant
I appreciate the weekly postings.
Bike mugging are a thing in California as well.
Another common type of bike theft is to follow cyclists home, then to break into homes for the bikes. And because it’s hard to simply move, the bike robbers just go to the same homes repeatedly.
Prime reason for 12-13 speed cassettes is that they're mated with 1X on the front.
...which is equally pointless if it costs more.
1x makes sense in MTB to keep the chain from dropping. Seems less important on road disciplines.
@@briansmith2125 💯
@@fenderbenderspecial My sentiment exactly.
@@fenderbenderspecial Arguably, rather pointless with the clutch-equipped derailleurs. And without shifting in the front you have to shift across the WHOLE range when you get from a descent to a steep incline, and WAIT until the proper cog is engaged. On a triple, you'd click the shifter 2 times and have low-range IMMEDIATELY.
1x is stupid in any application.
I learn something useful here everytime. Thanks Nic for mentioning your preference for 650B wheels. I'm about to buy an extra wheelset so as to be able to quickly convert my road Triban RC120 (thanks Jimmi for the earlier episode, I'm lovin' it) to a gravel bike on weekends. I still have an MTB with 26" inch wheels that I love on single track and I tear up the city on a folding 20" Tern, so I was all ears about the smaller wheels for gravel. Now I've found some and together with 40mm gravel tires and the 5mm shorter 32/48 crankset I found for the Triban, I'll have decreased toe overlap and will even gain some room so to not have to remove my road mudguards when converting to gravel. I've also found an 11-36 cassette that Microshift says I can use with their long cage RD-M46L, lowering my granny gear from 27 to 24 gear inches. But I'm tempted to go even lower by trying Microshift's 11/38 cassette, even if it ends up 2T more than their max lower cog.
Anybody got any thoughts about that?
Really enjoyed it again, Cheers Colin.
These are some of the reasons that led me to totally change my mindset for my last build. No carbon but steel. Maximize fun potential and functionality over performance. I don't run races, I go on rides as often as I can in whatever weather I have, so having a dynamo/fenders seemed like a great idea. I definitely have more fun riding, less stress thinking about the bike failing, getting stolen and the bike ride just as good as any carbon bike.
Your bike makes you feel like a kid again. Maybe that’s why people think about spending money on it as soon as they get out of the saddle. When the downtube got fat, it was the beginning of the end; a new surface for branding you could see a block away. A new gaudiness for an object that had always been beautifully simple. It does, however, make it easier to read the logos as you pass them going up the hill.
Years ago two of my friends bought a mountain bike each. One was about 5ft tall and the other was 6ft 4in tall. The bike shop in Eastleigh, Hampshire sold each of them the exactly same sized bike! So one had a lot of seatpin showing, and the other shorter guy had none showing! The bike shop obviously had no idea!!!!
Mint videos 🇬🇧👍🏻and lots of great content and questions answered 💪🏻
This is one of the best topics I’ve heard.
Great video.
Great guest.😂
I watched that GCN video and it kind of just seemed like they were trying to legitimize biking as a serious thing by excusing the high costs against motorcycles, an industry people already take seriously.
As a poor, the thing I find frustrating about most of bike TH-cam is that almost no one aims their content on people like me. I couldn't hope to afford any of the bikes or groupsets. The TH-cam space makes it seem like you need more expensive gear than you do to have a good time or even participate in events at most people's skill level. I recently got an RC 120 (which I could only afford because it was on sale and my SO paid half) and I think you guys are the only channel who gave it praise. Every other channel sort of just aims you at bikes that would cost over 2k in Canada but the RC 120 is more bike than I will ever need. The MTB space is even worse honestly, I'm riding a 7 year old GT hardtail and kept up on trail for a while weekend with multiple groups using 4-7k full sus and 8-10k ebikes.
Check Seth from Berm Peak. He is the type of guy who tells you why a department store bike might be what you need to start MTB.
@@leinadster should have called him out too. He's fantastic
TBF to GCN, they _did_ praise the RC 120 in a couple of their videos, though a couple of them are years old.
You can't say that modern bikes are overpriced when your major sponsors are Pinarello, Canyon and Orbea.
the most honest video . good work. most people sense gcn is just marketing
Great video as always! Thanks.
Another interesting podcast thanks guys, and Emily.
GCN crews can be out of touch sometimes. Generally speaking, i like their content. But when Alex tried to use a dura ace crank during a bike build, it makes me wonder hows that crank gonna fit into the budget theme.
GMBN has the same problem too. I watched a budget DH build, and they just pulled out a Rock Shox fork that they "had lying around" and also a 26" wheelset they were given to review for a separate video.
Only thing legit about the build was the Nukeproof Hardtail frame, which you can buy for pretty cheap from Wiggle/CRC.
Worth noting that the Harley Iron's Evo 883 was built on American union labor rates, too -- and it still costs less than a high-end bicycle! But then this is why when it comes to bicycles, I love a good fixed gear -- very hard to spend over $4k in that niche and mine was under half that figure for a shop build. If I can buy a handmade custom fixed-gear made in my own US city for less than an average road bike... Yeah this industry's got something screwy going on.
Also, strangely, I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US -- Baltimore -- and bicycle or motorcycle crime is incredibly rare here outside of very certain niches of motorcycle (dirt bikes, sport bikes) and ebikes. I've heard of one or two folks in the district I commute to getting seatposts stolen but for whatever reason it's not A Thing here to steal bicycles. But then Bmore is one of those cities where most of the danger is between people who are already involved in or around criminal activity and just existing is pretty safe besides occasional petty theft
I have a friend who works in the industry, that mentioned to me that shipping to Canada from China used to cost $2000 CDN for a container, and during COVID increased to $41,000 CDN. This is a major factor for increased cost of bicycles in North America.
Maybe it's time to look at manufacturing closer to home?
That would be about right as shipping was one of the biggest hit industries.
Always good to have Nick on the show and video's, very likeable guy and knowledgeable
Love Nick. More Nick please!
Yeah, here in South Africa the muggings happen with guns, Just up the road from me we've had several muggings in the last few months. One lady was hit in the face with a handgun which obviously made her fall and the bike was hijacked with her phone.
Sad world we live in. Stay safe out there.
with regards to stripping the bikes, we've seen reports of people who got hijacked or their bikes stolen seeing them being advertised on Facebook market place within a day already.
At least some arrests have been made.
Great work.....many thx it always makes me smile
Thank you for another great episode.
One of the my favorite TH-camrs Fortnine recently made a video explaining why mountain bikes cost about the same as entry level motorbikes (right around 8k). You can get a new Iron 883 for less than 10k, and used in good condition for 5-6k. I’m fairly new to cycling so I’d love to know whether the used market isn’t as large in this sport - maybe thats allowing manufacturers to set the price higher and higher?
Yeah that channel rocks. Used market in carbon is not good for reasons you can't tell how abused it is really. I am not buying someone else's time carbon unless I know how abused it was. In gravel bikes used people do stuff I never would do.
The used market for bicycles is more difficult than that for motorcycles because of a whole pile of factors, though one of them is frame sizing - doesn't matter if my unicorn vintage bicycle is available at a perfect price if it's a size 59 frame and I'm a 51-54 in basically all brands. Also, a lot easier to hold on to an unused bicycle in the back of a shed or basement than an unused motorcycle because it doesn't need stuff like license fees, insurance, etc
I remember huge road safety campaigns around seatbelts and Think! for motorbikes and children crossing roads or drink driving.
I can't recall any campaigns for cyclists. Although just having checked, their website does mention us.
Just looked back at the old "Think once, think twice, think bike" Its surprising that it only featured motorbikes as it is equally applicable to pedal cycles.
Great episode. Thanks xx
Great show. Always watch from Cananda
I gave up watching GCN a couple of months ago, feel like they just recycle the same couple of videos again and again with a different person presenting
So they educated you enough that you didn’t need the instruction. Seems like they have done a good job. I’m in the same boat but come back for the documentary vids that appear now and again.
That's a bit unfair. They produce a lot of entertaining content. Sure, some of it is better than others. But it's all completely free!
@@nacnud2323 maybe I’m looking at it all wrong. I just couldn’t watch another tyre/rim width or vs pro type video
Average people dont drive f1 cars, average cyclist dont need expensive carbon disked bikes.
Amazing loved this chat.
Thank u very much for this Episode. I agree 100% with Nicks Pitch for an Education Campaign for respectful treatment of different road users. I am from Germany, where we have the exact same Situation. Hopefully, someone from the Government or Municipality is also a Fan of your Podcast and picks this Idea. Keep up the good work!
I ride an old Dutch bike, 3 speed with kick back brake for transport and shopping and race bikes for training and racing only. With the Dutch bike you can park it anywhere with simple chain lock and it’s always there when you return. The bike cost £250 and I have had it over 12 years. Fully enclosed chain and hub gears means minimal servicing required and only one change of tyres. The answer is get the right bike for the job if you don’t need a race bike don’t buy one.
This. But as a Dutchie I've grown up with city bikes so it's a no-brainer for me. My race bike is for fun, I have a workhorse for the other stuff.
In Japan, you have to register your bike when and where you buy it. It costs 500yen.
If you buy a second hand bicycle, then you need to register it at the local koban (police box).
In reality, that rarely works. Nothing is digital and basically, you can just remove the sticker and re-register under your name in a shop with a fake receipt.
@@AquidoSquido The bike comes up as being registered under another name.
First time watching the podcast and really enjoyed over my morning coffee. Also very much appreciate your other vids. I also enjoy GCN but recognize they have a certain focus, so I watch with a critical eye (just like everything though) for anyone looking for another channel with a similar consumer focus like Cade I recommend the Canadian, 'Shifter'. Great job, Cade Media! Appreciate you!
Great chat!
I'm totally in accord with what Nick said about comfort and durability of bikes. After seeing damage to multiple friends' carbon bikes and my own plus several high profile failures and recalls from all the major manufacturers, I'm done with carbon frames. Going back to steel.
#steelisreal
who makes a good quality light steel bike
@@redauwg911 I'm not sure lightness is really the forte of steel bikes but it's the Fairlight Strael I'm going for, Lightness is overrated any way. I've lost 3kg on the carnivore diet recently so I'm up on the overall system weight even with a steel bike!
@@redauwg911 I only know Surly, but even their bikes start at like $1000
@@ashleyhouse9690 I lost 12kg on the whole foods plant based diet. And never had so much energy. I like to go on 100 mile rides now, I could only do 60 before.. Will check out that bike thank you for the suggestion
Armed bike robbery has become a problem. This reminds me of an incident in Oakland Hills, CA (USA) where a woman was robbed by 3 individuals at gunpoint for her mountain bike. It happened in 2022 when bikes were still hard to get, so I don't know if that added to its allure. It was a heartbreaking story as she just got the bike for Christmas. It happened in April.
There have been quite a number of bikejackings in the Oalkand/Berkeley, sadly. I've known [not well] a few of the victims.
Yeah sadly it has happened frequently, on the Redwood road side, Grizzly peak, Joaquin Miller and Skyline. Don't ride solo up there...
Another great episode - some good tips
Great content team. 👌🏼
Wary of people who tell folks what they should and shouldn't do. Let people buy the bikes they want. If a bike inspires an "average" cyclist to pretend they're a world tour pro and sprint down their home-street at the end of their ride, then great! More power to 'em. Let them work out the fit the way they want.
Prices are wild, though. No argument there.
If it is subtracting value from other peoples bike purchases then I think weekend warriors could knock 5k off what they were gonna spend
The prices are ruining the bike market in my opinion. £10k for a carbon frame with Dura Ace and all of a sudden you're now looking at £2k for an aluminium frame with 105.
Great to have Nic' s wisdom and viewpoints on the channel this week. Some insightful and candid opinions expressed by Nic, Jimmi & Emily. Nice one! 👍👏
Fun chat. Thanks
The comfort thing is 100% true when you look at uneven asphalt with potholes and some cobblestones mixed in.
When I ride a route on my commuter with drop bars on 35mm tires, compared to the same route on my 150mm trail bike in an aero position with both hands on the stem, it is much easier to keep the momentum going while using less energy.
I'm always taking my bike with me when I get in to a supermarket. if they try to make a scene I'm like this is worth this much. If your market is taking the responsibility in case being stolen I can leave it outside. 99% they like ohhh okay go inside
They tried to argue that my wheels were dirty from the roads. I pointed out that anything that was on my bike, was also on the shopping carts, the difference is that my bike gets cleaned once a week, and the shopping cart is washed zero times.
Lol wish I could do that in my country. Sadly people go hard on anything out of the norm here.
Absolutely we need attitude adjustment among road users. Roads are for everyone, and motorists need to be re-taught this.
We have a road outside my apartment in Dublin which they turned half into a bike lane and its now a one way street. Well it should be. Now it's just a really difficult to get out of lane when a car comes barrelling down the new bike lane at 50kmph and those stupid little bumps that devide the bike lane and road make it difficult to get out of the way
Interesting comment about Brother Cycles. I recently built up a Mr Wooden (rim brake 650b). The frame needed very little prep (facing etc) great paint as well. The frame was £699.00 , I got some 650b wheels (105 11sp hubs, Sapim race spokes and Thorn rims).for 220 quidish, made up by SJS. All in with the 11 speed GRX/ultegra drivetrain and shifters (which I robbed from another bike) it has come in about £1,600 (if I had to buy everything new probably £2,200ish) This is not a “cheap” bike, but it is comfortable, durable and 42mm Panaracer Parimotos it is quite quick. So reasonable builds can be had and 650b is great on or off road!
Another excellent edition of the podcast. Great guest.
As consumers, we need to practice stepping away from the FOMO. It's easy to think you are missing some essential new tech or essential performance improvements in not buying the latest and greatest mode. But in reality the gains are fairly marginal... at least when you are plodding around on your bike riding less than 40 km/h :-)
PathLessPedaled just had a very interesting video related to the subject of the costs involved in making bikes, highly recommended!
Just watched their video myself, last night, after having listened to this chat the other day, and came here to see if it had already been mentioned.
Particularly interesting were the costs on tooling for carbon, and (for small manufacturers) shipping costs during manufacture if you don’t have the nearby ecosystem.
we need someone to leak the real production cost of the big brands
Considering Specialized tried to sue a cafe in Canada called "Roubaix", that had existed years before Specialized even had a bike called Roubaix, and was infact named after the original Roubaix in France, says a lot about not taking on Amercian bike brands unless you have a lot of money to spare.
Most of their costs are marketing, sponsorships and salaries. The bikes cost is a very low % of the final price you see at the shops, even half price offers for older models nets them a margin.
That's not quite the how that legal affair occured@@Muppetkeeper. Lots of the negative press re Specialized in that case came from folk who had zero idea regarding IP/copyright and automatically sided with the small guy. When I looked into it, he was clearly in the wrong. Via my work, I need to be au fait with such things because it's a huge problem.
Good discussion at end about lubes. I bought Muc Off Dry Lube last summer and it's shocking, every ride I have to put some more in. Now using Shimano wet lube as winter and I'm happy with this, but will try an all weather one when it comes to summer again.
Excellent !
Average speed are a good metric over extended rides and routes you do regularly. I typically ride 90 to 120 km with a total ascent of around 1% of the ride distance. On most of these rides I average out at 20 km/h ( I am 70 years of age). But right now I am a bit slower at 18.5 to 19 km/h but as the spring comes my fitness will increase and my average speed will climb back up. At the end of a season I might hit 21 km/h average, but then I am also 1 year older and I can assure you things do not always get better, hence, if at the end of 2024, I will again be at 21 km/h I will be extremely happy and content.
By the way, my rides are mostly in the Scottish Borders or out to the sea and back inland and this area seem to have this inherent tilt of 1%. Nearly all of my rides end up with this 0.8 to 1.2% ascent of ride distance. Has anybody else noticed this ?
Loving the podcast
Phone theft reduced massively when Apple and Google started making it possible to remotely disable your phone. I'd love an equivalent where I could remotely set my derailleurs into the hardest gear and then brick them. (Actually, what I want is the bikes from Virtual Light - a massive capacitor in a steel bike frame which charges while you ride. When you park up, attach the capacitor output to the frame to make an open circuit...)
Yep, love GCN but them, or anyone for that matter, trying to justify prices is laughable.
Especially as all the presenters ride pro level bikes!
I just bought a new pair of Sidi genius 10 at 120$ under retail, you should have heard the guy at the shop when I asked if he was still making a profit 😂
If you think people were angry about this video you need to check out the comment section of their video about hookless rims 😆
Great show as always, I appreciate Nick's practical and no nonsense approach from the bike mechanic perspective. For the listener with the question about wet vs. dry lube, if you are not considering going down the waxing route for your chain then your best bet is Silca Synergetic lube. For an oil-based lube, it is simply the best that there is.
Silca Synergetic lube retails at approx 30£/2 oz=30£/60ml=500£/L...
A chain lube for 500£/Liter? No thanks!
After a discussion about the insane prices of bikes now you start one about lubricants lol.
Nick talks a lot of sense! Down to earth and honest!
That's because he is from New Zealand
$3000+ for a bike frame that takes 44 hours to make is NOT overpriced whatsoever. If you divide the price by the hours, what you end up with is the fully burdened labor rate. It takes a space to make that stuff in, equipment to make it with and very skilled labor. The frame has to be designed/configured. There administrative cost and obviously a profit margin.
The frame design is no different from any other frame any other brand puts out.
...and nobody even said that was man hours.
Jimmy commented that the bike companies "are engineering products to sell new stuff" ~ yep, pretty much every industry in existence, cycling is not unique here.
This makes the videos of testing decathlon bikes even more important - there are brands and bikes for normal budgets, you don't need to have a Specalized bike.
Consumers have bought too much into the marketing hype and are willingly paying those prices. Same with ebikes, the brands we have are not ever featured in mainstream media but our bikes are just right for what we need them for and fractions of the price of the Highstreet brands...
Regarding bringing bikes into stores, I was in the grocery store when a woman walked in with her front-box (kid-hauler) cargo bike, put the groceries in the box, paid for them, walked the bike out and rode home. I got to thinking that it wasn't much bigger than a grocery cart and regarding dirt on the tires being brought in, that describes grocery carts too. She was smart to prevent the theft of her ~$8,000 bike.
End of the day, no one's being forced to buy the ridiculous bikes. Clearly people are buying them or they wouldn't offer them in the first place. Ironically there are better deals than ever before on affordable bikes. People just love to whine these days lol.
Also just to add, prices for everything are crazy these days. It's called mass inflation, stop voting for such terrible politicians who love to spend money on everything.
It's funny to me that this is the thing people have decided to be angry at GCN about, and not their years of misinformation, poor bike maintenance ideas, promoting muc-off, not informing viewers about paid adverts. No, people have chosen to be angry about their dodgy opinions.
Wait whats wrong with muc off? Just curious
@@theankiteroonie_8427 Specifically their chain lubes which actively increase wear rate to both the cassette and chain by attracting contaminants and abrasives. We have known for years that dry wax is the best lubricant. GCN took muc-offs money for a long time and told their viewers that it was the best lube and then one day last year when they suddenly started promoting wax. So they have knowingly promoted a product that wrecks drivetrains at a far greater rate than wax.
I’ve been having muc off on motorbike and push bike since in came out, and nearly all their products are excellent. The only thing they really fall down on is their chain lubes in my opinion.
Top podcast lots of love from Belgium😊😊
Love it when Nick is on more Nick🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
GCN is a joke. They are the tabloid equivalent of bike channels.
Here we go - Jimmy is off on one again...in what way is the bike industry different from ANY OTHER INDUSTRY!!
Nice show!
650B tyres were originally a road tyre used on French bicycles. They were demi-ballon tyres used on Randonneur, Porteur and Velo de Ville bicycles. Britain used the 26 inch wheel size, 26 x 1 1/4 for sports/racing bikes and 26 x 1 3/8 for sports/comuter bikes. These were Endrick pattern rims for use with rim brakes. These older wheel sizes were replaced by 27 x 1 1/4 and then 700C. 650B tyres on Randonneur bikes still has a following in France, USA and Japan. The use of 650B tyres on gravel bikes was developed by Jan Heine in the USA who had tyres manufactured by Panaracer in Japan for his Compass Cycles brand. Jan also had steel bike frames built with greater clearances to prove the concept, as well as experimenting with tread patterns and tyre widths on the tyres to better deal with the type of gravel surface. As a result of his work, his idea of gravel riding and gravel bikes was jumped on as the next marketing fad by the cycle industry.
Best thing thing about my haibike trekking 4 is the pannier rack with an integrated light and a bai pannier bag... Bloody brilliant, laptop, change of clothes, tools, spares battery bank for my phone. Bloody brilliant.
Love your podcasts! Hope you are all fine 💪
The only reason I've continued to upgrade after 10 speed groupsets has been out of fear of lack of support for older components. I'm currently using 11s Chorus and I never wish I had more gear ratios.
I love this mechanic 😊
He's right about everything.
1st time ever watching a video of this channel (rebound effect of a gcn comment in one of their videos😂) good to know you are down to earth... suscribed and following 😊