It's fun to think about, but we all need to remember, Ichiro entered the MLB at the age of 27. From there, he had ten straight 200 plus hitting seasons. Pete had ten 200 plus hitting season in his entire 24 year career. Had ichiro began his MLB career at age 20, 21, 22 you can certainly bank on him having 14 to 17, 200 plus hitting seasons and shattering Rose's mark.
You can't take someone's best years and then hypothetically plug them into other years. Look at Larry Walker! Over a 9 year period, starting at age 27 he had a .334 batting avg. But you can't plug those numbers into his younger years and just assume he would have had similar stats,... because reality proves otherwise. He only batted over .300 once prior to that. And for the record, he had a higher career BA than Ichiro. You can't create hypothetical stats.
You are right and honestly people just speculate because they are sad that they didnt actually get to witness what would actually happen if he did start in the MLB at a young age. However, contrary to Larry Walker, he clearly showed that he indeed had the capability to be hitting 200+ hits a season even when he was younger. From 1994 to 2000 (his "full" seasons in japan), He averaged a .350~ BA with an average of 500 ABs a season and an average of 180 hits in each of those seasons. Although you can argue that NPB pitchers were not as good as MLB pitches, he also had, on average, 180 less at bats per year in Japan than he did in the MLB. Also, based off of his rookie year, it clearly didnt matter much if NPB pitchers werent as good as MLB pitchers as he had no problem with MLB pitchers anyway. If he didnt absolutely shatter pete's record, he would most definitely have at least 4000+ hits.
If you compare Ichiro's stats from the age of 27 (when he joined MLB) until the age of 43. (His last significant season), and put those up against Pete Rose's stats from the age of 27 to the age of 43,...Pete Rose has more hits! Pete Rose out-hit Ichiro in a head to head comparison!.. Everything else is just hypothetical nonsense!
@@Hugh-x1c Once again hypothetical stats. If you're going to argue hypothetical, then maybe Tony Gwynn should be the hit king! He had a career BA of .338! He just needed a few more at bats to set the record! Hypotheticals don't matter. At the end of the day who had more hits?
Probably not tbh I don't think ichiro would have been near as good if he wasn't in Japan first it groomed him to be a contact hitter and gave him experience whose to say if he went from aaa to the majors at 21 that he wouldn't have had problems adapting like most Japanese players do was he better all around probably but pete is the hit king if we add Pete's minor league stats then maybe you can compare that but what ifs are hard injuries etc can happen would have been fun to know how it ended up though
"He has MLB's single-season record for hits with 262. He had 10 consecutive 200-hit seasons, the longest streak by any player in history". Whatever people say about the number of hits difference between Japanese and American league, these 2 records alone shows Ichiro can perform in the MLB as good as any American batter. Disregarding or downplaying Ichiro batting because of the so called "Japanese league" reason is ironic because even while playing in the MLB, he has scored records that not even American batters could achieved.
"Whatever people say about the number of hits difference between Japanese and American league, these 2 records alone shows Ichiro can perform in the MLB as good as any American batter. " I don't think anyone would deny that. I love Ichiro. He's an awesome player. What I don't like is when people use this to bash Rose. Both were great players. My a favorite Japanese player has been Hideki Matsui. And this new guy for the Angels, Shohei Ohtani, looks like he's going to be phenomenal.
@@mikeshoe74 Yes. 3,000 hits as just a MLB player in just 16 years. 10 straight seasons of 200+ hits and all time batting average of .311 to Pete’s .303. Thought Pete played far longer and maintained over a 0.300 average.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Ichiro is great and he is the greatest singles hitter in the history of baseball. Ichiro was the far better base stealer and a better defensive player. In each of their first 12 seasons before Ichiro got old ,Pete Rose hit for power as in doubles, scored far more runs and higher on base percentage. Both made huge impacts on the game.
I'm not so sure. You look at Ichiro's batting records in the MLB and compare them to his batting record in Japan. They're pretty close, with his Japan league batting average being slightly higher, compared to Ichiro's early~mid years in the MLB. He's a little slower now that he's 43 so it's not really fair to include his later stats even though they would be impressive for 99.99% of all other hitters. Anyway, I watched Pete Rose play growing up, along with a lot of other greats. Rose needs to be in the Hall of Fame. Lots of players are stupid off the field, but they still are considered for the HoF. That said, Ichiro 'missed' the first nine years of MLB eligibility but still managed to set batting record after batting record. You can call Pete Rose the "Hit King" all you want, and I'll respect that. But don't mind me when I call Ichiro the "World Hit King" cause the dude owns that title.
Most of the seasons where Ichiro recorded his fewest hits came when he was in Japan. It's because their season is shorter. If he played in the MLB for the entirety of his career, he would likely have more hits than he does today
Pete Rose was a good player and extremely durable but I wouldn't put him on the same class as Ichiro. Ichiro is a better hitter and more completed player. There's no doubt he would've surpassed Pete Rose's record MLB alone if he had started career here.
He was great player. Not merely a "good player." He had batting averages of 335, 348 and 338, and a life time batting average over 24 years in the majors of 303. And, of course, he is the hit king.
What are you talking about? I have seen them both play live multiple times. Ichiro was great. Matching Pete's 10 seasons and 200 hits is impressive. However, let's be honest here. He played in the weak pitching American League against a lot of Ham and Eggers due to expansion. Only faced Clemmons(HOF) regularly and just hit .250 and occasionally saw Maddux and Glavine. Pete faced Warren Spahn, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax. Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, the Neikro Brothers, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bunning, Tom Seaver, and Juan Marichel. He owned most of them accept Koufax. Pete Rose also played 4 different positions in the major leagues. Oh yeah 44 game hitting streak in 1978! Ichiro had a 12 game streak. Also, Japanese baseball in the 90's was not even AAA level equivalent.
Jerry Powers -- That 44 game hitting streak is still the longest in the National League. Impressive! Joe Dimaggio still holds the major league record of 56 games. Amazing!
"Wouldn't put him in the same class" Pete rose is literally the only other player that could possibly BE in the same class as ichiro, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion
I believe Ichiro entered the MLB at 29 or 30 years old, a very late age. He was such a great player that if he began his career in the MLB at a younger age, I wouldn't be surprised that he would have more career hits than Pete Rose or at least come close to him.
Just look at the number of at-bats each has had. Pete Rose had the most hits, but also the most plate appearances in MLB history. Ichiro is far more efficient in that regard. Also, I think it is more difficult to get 200+ hits in a season since 2001, than it was during the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Pitchers today are harder to hit. Ichiro is the greatest hitter the game has ever seen. Bare none.
I think he is a more efficient hitter, making him the better hitter. Will say though, I think Ichiro did not have a higher OBP though. The ultimate measure is total collection of all around hitting numbers and war even. Though Ichiro was a more valuable defender, I am not sure that Pete was not more valuable to his team.
yuubokumin415 Rose is easily the hit king. Canadian football stats aren't translated to the nfl.. enough said. Ichiro's stats from over seas shouldnt be added here
^ what this guy said. Ichiro started in the MLB at the age of 27, and his rookie year broke the most hits in a single season record. If there was a huge talent difference between the Japanese and American play styles he wouldn't have been able to pull off numbers like that.
Oh no. Ichiro is better than Rose in just about every aspect. Ichiro had unbelievable defense, his approach to the plate is mature and just smart. Rose is a baseball god and knows the ins and outs of the game but Ichrio is a 5 tool player like we've ever seen one.
possumverde pete rose was a tougher out. didnt strike out as much. walked more and had a better OBP , hit better with runners on as he easily had more RBI's, and faced better pitchers during his career.
Houston Snelbaker they were both singles hitters. Rose had a better OBP and was a tougher out. walk is as good as a single in most cases especially since rose hit for a little more power and was easily a better hitter with runners on base, as rose has the edge in rbi's also. plus rose faced tougher pitchers. edge all a round goes to rose.
@@seymourglass26 Problem was. MLB isn't being petty as each Commissioner made their decision not to lift Rose's ban after reading the original 200+ page report from the investigation. Rose was offered a suspension, the IRS at the behest of the FBI would drop his tax evasion charges and the FBI would get the NJ mobsters to forgive Rose's $500,000 of debt. Rose would have to publicly apologize for gambling on Baseball and go to rehabilitation for his gambling addiction. MLB and the FBI bent over backwards to give an American icon a break. As you know Rose thought he was too big and tried to bully Giamatti the Yale professor. Giamatti dropped the hammer on Rose. Rose went to prison for tax evasion and was banned from baseball for life. That's arrogance at its worst and not the most insidious things he did. Rose fed his addiction sometimes at the end by financing cocaine deals where he could double his money in two weeks. It's all in the report and there is a summary of the report in the link below, it's still a long read and even accuses Rose of betting against his team by not placing bets so his debtors would know not to bet on the Reds. www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/
@@seymourglass26 rose claims he told his bookie before the season to bet X amount each game on the reds to win. He claims to have not been placing bets during the season when he would have more of a strategic advantage with injuries and matchups showing up. So theres that for whatever its worth
@@lifechild777 oh ok ,.because you said so. BWAHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! The record books disagree with you. I believe they are more credible then some weirdo on the internet saying "theres no debate" when CLEARLY myself and the record books are debating that. Sorry kid, try again.
No, Rose is the better hitter, look at their 162 game average. Rose has him beat on hits plus everything else. If you want to claim Ichiro was better defender or baserunner you have an argument but Rose was a better hitter.
Phil Hopkins you could definitely say that Rose was better at getting on base, not that he's the better hitter. 10 consecutive years with 200 hits shows Ichiro is the better hitter.
Rose hit a lot more doubles. So, he appears to have more power. Apparently Rose also played all outfield positions, and all infield positions, except short stop and pitcher.
ORagnar if you’ve seen ichiro hit at all you know he hit a lot of singles on purpose and also had the power to get extra base hits if he really wanted to
Betting on baseball while being a player or manager (or both at the same time) will get you banned from the game. Pete belongs in the World Hall of Shame.
Ichiro, of course. a fabulous hitter of any kind of pitch, fabulous base runner, a polite humble man with never a whisper of scandal, no steroid use, etc. I could go on and on about why Ichiro should be chosen as the true hit King, hands down.
Pete Rose is the all time MLB hits leader. There's no debating that. Ichiro will get to the HOF sooner. No debating that either. He's an all-time great.
Barry Bonds when he first got to San Francisco in 1993 was the greatest I have seen without juicing. Young Seattle phenoms Alex Rodriguez and Griffey Jr are close as well.
@@Cincinnatus1869 explain why not? He is 1200 hits off and started in the MLB when he was 27. He averaged 224 hits in the first 10 years of his MLB career and had 2/3rds of his career hits in that span. If he entered the MLB at age 21 and averaged even 200 hits in that span he catches rose. I mean the dude set the single-season record for hits when he was 30 in his 4th year. And his rookie year was 10th best ever and a rookie record! Again, explain if he had a normal start to his career how he wouldn't have set the record.
@@scottb3034 I don't know ,you may be right. But at the same time , if Rose had been hitting off of Japanese league pitching in his first 5 or 6 seasons instead of Koufax , Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, Marichal etc he'd surely have more hits too. Rose accumulated a lot of his hits in what was known as the ' era of the pitcher' , when ERAs were so low they lowered the mound to even things out for hitters. His first 5 seasons saw ERAs at their lowest since the dead ball era.
@@Cincinnatus1869 you might have a point with the era of the pitcher but i don't know what ichiro hitting off japanese pitching has to do with anything. Ichiro has 3000 hits against MLB pitching. None of the hits he got in the NPB count toward that total. He averaged 224 for 10 seasons against MLB pitching from 27-36. All I am saying is if he did anything remotely like that from 21-36 while in the MLB he'd have broken it. The Nippon Professional Baseball doesn't enter the equation in this scenario.
@@scottb3034 well , in any event he didn't break Rose's record or even get close to it. Nor has anyone else. Also Rose is in the top 10 all time in total bases and runs scored , and 2nd in career doubles . Ichiro was great at what he did , which was slap the ball and leg out singles. I don't take anything away from him but I know which guy I'd rather have in the lineup . Baseball is full of what if scenarios . But at the end of the day it's the championships and stats that count.
@@abelincoln5698 Pete Rose got absolutely shit on by guys like Sandy Koufax, Randy Jones, and even Bob Forscht. I'm sorry but there's no way he would be able to compete against the competition Ichiro did. Rose was without a doubt the best of his era but to say that the competition at the time was anything other than inferior is completely silly.
According to Baseball-Reference.com, they both averaged 194 hits per 162 games over the course of their MLB careers. Rose averaged a .307 BA (162 game avg.), and Ichiro was .312. So just talking MLB, it's a wash, with Ichiro having a slight edge. Now add in Ichiro's phenomenal Japanese career (.353 over 9 seasons, with a staggering per 162 game average of 217 hits).... I think you have to give it to Ichiro. Of course, they are playing in different eras, and for a little of a third of his career Ichiro played in a different league altogether. But those numbers are hard to ignore, and for 17 seasons in the MLB he matched and even surpassed Rose. Both incredible hitters, but in my opinion, Ichiro is the greatest hitter of all time.
And to throw another wrench in to the works, because we are talking about even more disparity in years, Ty Cobb averaged .366 over 24 years, 224 hits per 162.... that is insane. Jeter was .308, 204 H per 162. Triss Speaker was .345, 204 H per 162. Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162... Who is to say, really, which of them is better than the other? I can only say, in my humble opinion, that Ichiro is the best.
Mason Lafoon not to mention ichiro has the record of 10 consecutive years of 200+ hits in a season and in 2004 ichiro had his first record breaking 262 hits in one season and a batting average of .350 that season.
That stat is ridiculous. Your math doesn't work. How can you compare averages without the same amount of years? You legit said they both "averaged" those numbers over their respective MLB careers. Yes, that is correct. Yet, Pete Rose "averaged" those stats from 1963 to 1986, 23 years, while Ichiro "averaged" those stats from 2001 to 2019, 18 years. Pete Rose "averaged" those stats 5 seasons longer than Ichiro in MLB. How do we fix it? It's simple. You either take Ichiro's career totals and average it out over 23 years instead of 18, or you take Pete Rose's stats and average it out over 18 years instead of 23. That's the only way to have an equal playing field. Well, that's not fair. Ichiro leaves 5 years on the table. Okay, then do the math for Pete Rose's first 18 years and Ichiro's whole career. Just looking at it, I think Rose would win since his last 5 years would statistically be his worst, but I could be mistaken. My method is solid though. It's the only way to accurately compare it
Ichiro tore up MLB pitching in his rookie year and every year thereafter. He had better numbers against MLB pitching than he did against Japanese pitching. How can you say his hits shouldnt count? And dont pretend that Rose faced better pitchers. Todays players are night and day better athletes. Just face it. Ichiro is better than Rose. In fact you could argue that hes the best player ever. You cant even pretend to say that about Rose.
Old pitchers didn't have pitch counts so they could go up to 150-200 pitches a game. No way is that as effective as pitch #1 of the game. He got some due to fatigue.
Uhh....he hit .312 BA, 194 hits per 162 in the MLB over his 17 years, and over his 9 in the NPB he hit .353, 217 per 162...so no, he didn't hit better in the MLB than the NPB. But he still outhit Rose, who averaged .307, 194 hits per 162. But then you also have: Ty Cobb .366, 224 hits per 162. Derek Jeter .308, 204 H per 162. Triss Speaker .345, 204 H per 162. Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162...
Pete Rose had professional hits in the minors as well. Pete Rose put up better mlb numbers than what he did in the minors too, so Rose still has more hits.
Rose is like the Brett Favre of baseball. He played forever and amassed crazy amount of stats simply by playing the game a long time. Ichiro is the best contact and lead-off hitter the game has ever seen.
Pete Rose was my first favorite player at age 8 hustling out a walk was awesome. Plus his intensity to win was awesome. Then came Griffey Jr, started really following him starting in 1997 being from the east coast. He was insane, everything he did was superhero like and no steroids. He was incredible to watch, I put on every game that was broadcast on MLB tv ,etc. He made it look so easy too, much here won't be another JR ever again, I wish he were still playing. It's incredible to think if he stayed in Seattle with Ichiro and Arod what he might have done, 60Hr seasons, 175+ RBI, and world series champions. Thanks for the awesome memories my friend.
I'll take Pete Rose, and Ken Griffey, Sr, over Griffey, Jr. for one reason: they were vital parts of winning teams. For better or worse, Griffey, Jr. seldom played on teams that finished over .500 on the season. Rose and Griffey, Sr. played on World Championship teams that included Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Tony Perez, George Foster, and many others who did a bunch of winning.
@@lifechild777 Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
@@thunderousooner527 I know exactly how many hits Pete Rose had... But when you amass ALL of Ichiro's time in Japan it plays out to roughly 6 years.. If judging by the amount of hits Ichiro managed during his time here...and think another 6 years wouldn't have made a difference... you're smoking some rreeaaaalll serious delusion buddy...
I absolutely hate the media. No doubt Ichiro is one of the top 10 hitters of all time. But he played in Japan where the level play is no where near as it is in the states. He was simply a freak of nature who bordered on godlike abilities. But let's not take anything away from Rose or other American ball players who played against the best in the world.
*"Ichiro has a lot of fun out there, you know when he throws out 262 hits in a year, and most guys are throwing out 130-150 and he's almost doubling it......"*
Wrong Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose. I’m counting the minor leagues. Since Japan baseball is this like the minor leagues
Bro he entered the league when he was 27, won the mvp his first year broke George sisslers record. And had two hall of fame careers. To me he’s the all time hit king.
Ichiro went 2-9 his first at bats and since then never dropped below .300. It didn’t take him a season or 3 to adjust to mlb pitching. It just took him a couple of games. You can compare mlb and Japanese pitchers all you want but Ichiro could flat out hit. Hit king for me.
Ok... count Ichiro's non-MLB stats. Now count all MLB players non-MLB (A, AA, AAA) stats. Add Pete's 600+ minor league hits. Oh no! "That's different!" Yes... but still a professional league. The MLB stats are for MLB not other leagues. It really is that simple.
@@ひろぽん-c9x Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Arguing about sports is fun. First, Pete Rose accumulated the hits record in 24 MLB seasons, while Ichiro played basically only 17 MLB seasons (not counting the last 2 seasons of the farewell tour where he played a combined 17 games). Second, MLB is more competitive than the Japanese league, therefore, cannot include Ichiro's #s outside of MLB. In summary, Pete Rose has the most career hits at 4256, plus 10 seasons of 200 hits, versus Ichiro who has the most single-season hits with 262, plus 10 consecutive 200-hit seasons. BOTH ARE HIT KINGS!!
that's right Ken what he did on the field not off the field as for Ichiro they don't have American pitching over there as I've been close to a competitor is in the pitching in the usa
I watched both players and I they were both great and one of a kind. I have seen some strange posts about white privilege for Pete Rose. During the 1960s Pete played on Reds teams that were four to five starters black and Cuban. In the 1970's except for Johnny Bench and Pete Rose all the starting position players were black, Cuban or Venezuelan with some exceptions. Pete was mentored on the Reds by Frank Robinson and Vada Pinson. The 1960's National League featured some of the best black pitchers ever. Bob Gibson, Earl Wilson, Ferguson Jenkins to name a few. Please do research before making "white privilege" comments.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Pete Rose is the MLB hit king but Ichiro is the Overall Baseball hit king and more complete player Rose did his thing in like 20 yr career Ichiro was the fastest to 3000 hits 240+ hits as rookie and has the record 262 hits in a season and 9 or 10 consecutive yrs of 200+ hits Rose can't say that
Rose is on TH-cam in an interview series where he calls Japanese baseball "the minor leagues." He is very adamant that Ichiro's numbers in Japan are not "major league" baseball.
Ichiro didn't play against the '70s and '80s Japanese pitchers. He played against the '90s Japanese pitchers when they were good enough that they were starting ti get recruited in the US. Plus, just because the style of play is different and thus one country can beat another regularly doesn't take away from the individual greatness. Satahara Oh hadn't seen splitters sonhe couldn't hit one, fair enough. But there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as good against splitterd as he was against other pitches if he had a chance to play with that pitch in the game. Like Babe Ruth, Oh and Ichiro were so far above the players they faced there is no doubt of their greatness. And Ichiro proved that when you take a player like that and give him the experience in MLB style baseball, he can excel there too. Ichiro was criticozed for winning Rookie of the Year because he wasn't really a rookie (I agreed with that sentiment). But if you criticize that, you'd better not also deny how much he deserves the recognition as the Hit King.
Pete rose is the hit king. I grew up watching Ichiro and always admired him and thought he was great. However sad it might be to some, MLB is the tippy top of the mountain for baseball players to compete in and thats where the hits will be counted. You can theory craft all day, but it is what it is. Pete Rose, Hit King.
Rose should be a hall of famer...that said, Ichiro did better in MLB than in the Japanese League, also was a prolific base-stealer with one of the best if not the best arms in MLB history.
Ichiro was far better than Rose. I'm sorry. Considering his production went up (in terms of hits per season) from Japan to MLB, Ichiro would have gotten more hits than Rose if he had started his career in the big leagues. Throw in his far-superior speed and the 10 consecutive 200 hit seasons, and its a lock.
Uhh....he hit .312 BA, 194 hits per 162 in the MLB over his 17 years, and over his 9 in the NPB he hit .353, 217 per 162...so no, he didn't hit better in the MLB than the NPB. But he still outhit Rose, who averaged .307, 194 hits per 162. But then you also have: Ty Cobb .366, 224 hits per 162. Derek Jeter .308, 204 H per 162. Triss Speaker .345, 204 H per 162. Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162...
Dude youre talking singles...rose was better at everything else when it comes to hitting and had a higher on base which is the most important stats when comparing leadoff hitters.
Justin Amenta Nah bruh. Ichiro played in an era with faster, more athletic defenders and hard-throwing specialized relievers. When Rose played, guys were slower and starting pitchers stayed in the game way longer. Ichiro also played during the steroid era and he played during an era with a lot more defensive shifts and shit like that as well. Ichiro lost 5 or 6 prime years by playing in Japan. Had he played those years in the majors, he would have broken the MLB hits record without a shadow of a doubt and he also would have ended up with around 700 stolen bases. *Bottom line:* Ichiro is the more gifted, more athletic, better baseball player period. Saying Pete Rose is better is like saying Wilt Chamberlain was a better NBA center than Shaquille O'Neal.
Different playing styles and eras. Both amazing hitters, BECAUSE of their different styles. Pete won it all, played longer in MLB so he never got to face the level of pitching in Japan that Ichiro did (whatever the result might have been). Pete also hit very well from both sides of the plate, in a LOT more ballparks. End verdict: both deserve recognition, and it’s a healthy debate for respectful fans, writers and players.
I think yes, absolutely Rose is the hit king.... but I think Ichiro was the better player overall. He dominated all aspects of play. Steals, defense and hitting. Ichiro was a beast!
Pete Rose is the 🐐 Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
I always wished the cubs would of got him instead of Soriano years back, what could of been. Ichiro style of hitting changed the American game and his approach to offense led to teams like the Royals of 2015.
Pete Rose had a good point about this debate, he mentioned that if your going to count Ichiro’s Japan league hits then you should count his Triple A hits in the minor leagues which was at the same or better level of Japanese baseball. All that being said I grew up a Mets fan and watched Pete Rose his whole career. I hated him at the time but he was a phenomenal contact hitter and competitor facing better pitching his whole career than Ichiro. However Ichiro is an Athletic freak of nature who’s world class speed from the left side of the plate got him an unbelievable 75 infield hits one year. Ichiro’s 262 hits in 2004 is a record that will probably never be broken. That total is two seasons of hits for most players. His ability to put the ball in play and speed on the bases is unmatched in major league history, it put tremendous pressure on the fielders.I firmly believe if Ichiro played his whole career in the major leagues here he definitely would’ve beat Pete Roses record!
Ichiro started at 27 in MLB. Let that sit in for a minute .. but Pete is MLBs Hits-Leader. We can’t take CFL records of Warren Moon and add them to NFLs
It should be noted that Pete Rose got his batting titles and a whole lot of his hits during the ' era of the pitcher' , the 1960s and 70s when league ERAs were at their lowest since the dead ball era. Ichiro was getting his in an era of inflated offense. Nobody was inclined to include Japanese league statistics in any players career totals before Ichiro , so why are they now? I admire Ichiro a lot and enjoyed watching him . I think he is one of the most talented ballplayers I've seen. But he didn't get all his hits against the same competition Rose did because the Japanese leagues don't have the depth and talent in pitching that the MLB does. Nobody's close to catching Rose
Ichiro has the MLB single season hit record, and the records for most overall and most consecutive 200 hit seasons in the MLB. There is nothing to suggest his Japanese hits shouldn't matter or count towards the All time pro record. He hit BETTER once he came to the states. He essentially invented his own style of play. He is the GOAT contact hitter no doubt and it isn't that close.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose. Pete Rose is the hit king not Ichiro.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Back then hitting was the same level as now but pitching was way crappier. In the 70s pitchers only threw 70-85 mph but now most pitchers throw from 91-105
Rose is the mlb hit king. If ichiro plays his whole career in mlb he gives pete rose a run and honestly i think he passes it and probably comes close to 5000. If you compare japan and usa theres like a 30 game difference in regular season so i think ichiro woulda easily passed him and maybe hit 5k
"Most hits" does not translate to "best hitter." As long as we get that out of the way, I say Rose is a better hitter, Ichiro the more dangerous baseball player. Ichiro was a good hitter, but a lot of his MLB success was contingent on his ability to leg out infield singles. The actual hitting part might not've been the best part of his game, ironically. Still, you're judged by the totality of your accomplishments on the field, and as far as the scoreboard goes, there's often no difference between a slowly hit ground ball and a solid rope one-hopper to right, and you can't discount that Ichiro was an elite baserunner, fielder, and thrower.
even as an Asian American, grew up watching both Rose and Ichiro.. it's not even close... I take Rose and what he brought to the team over Ichiro any day.... Rose played the game like no other I've seen in 50 years of watching baseball....
Paraphrase Baseball Legend, Mr Ken Griffey sr. "When we went there we were 17-0..Those guys never even seen a sinker." THANK YOU! Yet some want to even consider for a second Ichiro's hits versus Pete Rose. Rose is the hit king and that record will never be broken. Pete Rose minor league pitchers were more challenging than the average pitcher in Japan during that era.... probably even college pitchers.
If you really want to be fair and if you really mean all-time hits king for professional baseball , it has to be Ichiro.Just like the all-time home run king has to be Sadaharu Oh with 868.That's if you really mean "Professional Baseball".
Ichiro is the hit king. We can not take away Pete roses acomplishments even if he was on an uneven playing field because of his ped use, but ichiro is the hit king.
The "Hit King" debate is ultimately pointless, but here's a take. It depends on what your criteria are. You could value any of the following in any measure: batting average, strikeout rate, total hits, extra base hits Heck, no one's out here calling Babe Ruth the Hit King even though he finished with a career batting average 30 points higher than either Rose or Ichiro. So really what people are asking is "who is the best contact hitter that didn't also hit for power regularly?" There's really no "best" contact hitter, but i think the player who best exemplified that style of hitting is Tony Gwynn. Gwynn's base hit total doesn't compare too favorable to Rose's, but Gwynn didn't have the benefit of playing on the Big Red Machine for a decade. Better offense means you get to step up to the plate more times each game. This combined with Tony Gwynn's comparatively poor stamina means Rose chalked up way more plate appearances (about 120) each season. But Gwynn was, on a typical day, more likely to get a base hit, and Gwynn was mythologically difficult to strike out. Pete Rose holds the record, and he may be the Hit King, but there have been better contact hitters than him (many, in fact) across baseball's history. I think Gwynn is the finest non-power contact hitter since integration. Narrow title, but credit where credit is due.
If you're going to count total professional hits, Pete Rose is still the Hit King by a lot, with 4,683, including his roughly 2 years in the minors. If you're going to count all of Ichiro's professional hits, you have to do the same for Pete. Period.
Don't look down Ichiro's Japanese baseball career. Japanese league had 130 games in a year at Ichiro's active era, but MLB has 162 games. from 2001 to 2011, Ichiro has average 732 at bat in a year, but he had average 561 at bad, highest 613 at bat in his Japanese career exclude his rookie 2 years. He had only 1 time to get 200+ hits in Japan, although he achieved 10 consecutive years 200+ hits in MLB. Of course MLB is highest level league in professional base ball, and not should be added his Japanese hits to MLB hits. but his achievement of Japanese baseball career should be praised more. MLB hit king is Pete, but Ichiro is not so bad.
Braedon Fisher thanks for the bs info. if its about how you are off the field then why are Ruth,Cobb and a hundred more in? and what about the PED users,some of them will get in sooner or later and alot of ppl say that Rose knowingly broke the rules,well so did any PED user. The first one linked to Roids that gets elected should automatically put Rose in.
It's fun to think about, but we all need to remember, Ichiro entered the MLB at the age of 27. From there, he had ten straight 200 plus hitting seasons. Pete had ten 200 plus hitting season in his entire 24 year career. Had ichiro began his MLB career at age 20, 21, 22 you can certainly bank on him having 14 to 17, 200 plus hitting seasons and shattering Rose's mark.
You can't take someone's best years and then hypothetically plug them into other years.
Look at Larry Walker! Over a 9 year period, starting at age 27 he had a .334 batting avg. But you can't plug those numbers into his younger years and just assume he would have had similar stats,... because reality proves otherwise. He only batted over .300 once prior to that.
And for the record, he had a higher career BA than Ichiro.
You can't create hypothetical stats.
You are right and honestly people just speculate because they are sad that they didnt actually get to witness what would actually happen if he did start in the MLB at a young age. However, contrary to Larry Walker, he clearly showed that he indeed had the capability to be hitting 200+ hits a season even when he was younger. From 1994 to 2000 (his "full" seasons in japan), He averaged a .350~ BA with an average of 500 ABs a season and an average of 180 hits in each of those seasons. Although you can argue that NPB pitchers were not as good as MLB pitches, he also had, on average, 180 less at bats per year in Japan than he did in the MLB. Also, based off of his rookie year, it clearly didnt matter much if NPB pitchers werent as good as MLB pitchers as he had no problem with MLB pitchers anyway. If he didnt absolutely shatter pete's record, he would most definitely have at least 4000+ hits.
If you compare Ichiro's stats from the age of 27 (when he joined MLB)
until the age of 43. (His last significant season), and put those up against Pete Rose's stats from the age of 27 to the age of 43,...Pete Rose has more hits!
Pete Rose out-hit Ichiro in a head to head comparison!.. Everything else is just hypothetical nonsense!
@@Hugh-x1c Once again hypothetical stats.
If you're going to argue hypothetical, then maybe Tony Gwynn should be the hit king! He had a career BA of
.338! He just needed a few more at bats to set the record!
Hypotheticals don't matter. At the end of the day who had more hits?
Probably not tbh I don't think ichiro would have been near as good if he wasn't in Japan first it groomed him to be a contact hitter and gave him experience whose to say if he went from aaa to the majors at 21 that he wouldn't have had problems adapting like most Japanese players do was he better all around probably but pete is the hit king if we add Pete's minor league stats then maybe you can compare that but what ifs are hard injuries etc can happen would have been fun to know how it ended up though
"He has MLB's single-season record for hits with 262. He had 10 consecutive 200-hit seasons, the longest streak by any player in history". Whatever people say about the number of hits difference between Japanese and American league, these 2 records alone shows Ichiro can perform in the MLB as good as any American batter. Disregarding or downplaying Ichiro batting because of the so called "Japanese league" reason is ironic because even while playing in the MLB, he has scored records that not even American batters could achieved.
Ichiro's stats in the Majors were better than when he was in Japan...at least for him, the MLB was easier to get base hits.
"Whatever people say about the number of hits difference between Japanese and American league, these 2 records alone shows Ichiro can perform in the MLB as good as any American batter. "
I don't think anyone would deny that. I love Ichiro. He's an awesome player. What I don't like is when people use this to bash Rose. Both were great players.
My a favorite Japanese player has been Hideki Matsui. And this new guy for the Angels, Shohei Ohtani, looks like he's going to be phenomenal.
ABSOLUTELY
100th like!
People act like the Japanese league isn’t good. Those guys can play!
Got to respect Ichiro for not giving a damn
he knows better, and too respectful to do anything to step on American baseball. He's a no doubt HOF'r simply on what he did in MLB alone.
@@mikeshoe74 Yes. 3,000 hits as just a MLB player in just 16 years. 10 straight seasons of 200+ hits and all time batting average of .311 to Pete’s .303. Thought Pete played far longer and maintained over a 0.300 average.
@@easyenetwork2023 and why is bringing up something I already know important to you or to anybody?
@@easyenetwork2023 we all know what he did in MLB. He's going into the MLB HOF, is there a higher honor than that in the game of baseball?
Pete Rose can keep the record. I'll take Ichiro's 10 straight gold gloves, while making the all star team AND his 10, 200+ hit seasons.
THE ORIGINAL PROFESSOR CHAOS I wasn’t convinced until I noticed all caps and then I realized this guy knows what he’s talking about
Ichiro didn’t come play in the US till he was 27....
Rose made all star team at 5 different positions. No other player can claim that.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
@@thunderousooner527 japan baseball has less games than mlb tho
Pete just has the privilege becuz he is Caucasian
Pete Rose: Hit King. Ichiro: Hit God.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Ichiro is great and he is the greatest singles hitter in the history of baseball. Ichiro was the far better base stealer and a better defensive player. In each of their first 12 seasons before Ichiro got old ,Pete Rose hit for power as in doubles, scored far more runs and higher on base percentage. Both made huge impacts on the game.
lol the greatest hitter ever never hit more than 15 home runs in a season? FOH.
@@thunderousooner527 but ichiro didnt play his whole career in the "Major Leagues" sooo????
@@erichvonmanstein6876 Bravo, well said.
I'm not so sure. You look at Ichiro's batting records in the MLB and compare them to his batting record in Japan. They're pretty close, with his Japan league batting average being slightly higher, compared to Ichiro's early~mid years in the MLB. He's a little slower now that he's 43 so it's not really fair to include his later stats even though they would be impressive for 99.99% of all other hitters.
Anyway, I watched Pete Rose play growing up, along with a lot of other greats. Rose needs to be in the Hall of Fame. Lots of players are stupid off the field, but they still are considered for the HoF. That said, Ichiro 'missed' the first nine years of MLB eligibility but still managed to set batting record after batting record.
You can call Pete Rose the "Hit King" all you want, and I'll respect that. But don't mind me when I call Ichiro the "World Hit King" cause the dude owns that title.
Your forgetting all of Pete's minor league hits, there professional hits just like japan
William Keiser lol
Jim McCracken ichiro’s eyes aren’t really slanted tho
Pudding #1 Japan isn’t on the same level as mlb
They even play fewer games in japan
Most of the seasons where Ichiro recorded his fewest hits came when he was in Japan. It's because their season is shorter. If he played in the MLB for the entirety of his career, he would likely have more hits than he does today
Pete Rose was a good player and extremely durable but I wouldn't put him on the same class as Ichiro. Ichiro is a better hitter and more completed player. There's no doubt he would've surpassed Pete Rose's record MLB alone if he had started career here.
He was great player. Not merely a "good player." He had batting averages of 335, 348 and 338, and a life time batting average over 24 years in the majors of 303.
And, of course, he is the hit king.
What are you talking about? I have seen them both play live multiple times. Ichiro was great. Matching Pete's 10 seasons and 200 hits is impressive. However, let's be honest here. He played in the weak pitching American League against a lot of Ham and Eggers due to expansion. Only faced Clemmons(HOF) regularly and just hit .250 and occasionally saw Maddux and Glavine. Pete faced Warren Spahn, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax. Nolan Ryan, Steve Carlton, the Neikro Brothers, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bunning, Tom Seaver, and Juan Marichel. He owned most of them accept Koufax. Pete Rose also played 4 different positions in the major leagues. Oh yeah 44 game hitting streak in 1978! Ichiro had a 12 game streak. Also, Japanese baseball in the 90's was not even AAA level equivalent.
Jerry Powers -- That 44 game hitting streak is still the longest in the National League. Impressive! Joe Dimaggio still holds the major league record of 56 games. Amazing!
"Wouldn't put him in the same class" Pete rose is literally the only other player that could possibly BE in the same class as ichiro, or else we wouldn't be having this discussion
I believe Ichiro entered the MLB at 29 or 30 years old, a very late age. He was such a great player that if he began his career in the MLB at a younger age, I wouldn't be surprised that he would have more career hits than Pete Rose or at least come close to him.
27
He was 27. Without a doubt he would have surpassed Rose's tally.
27
Again ifs and maybe he's don't count Nolan Ryan pitched no-hitters in his forties Ichiro Japanese Chin Pete Rose MLB hit King
But didn’t mlb count his Japan hits.
Just look at the number of at-bats each has had. Pete Rose had the most hits, but also the most plate appearances in MLB history. Ichiro is far more efficient in that regard. Also, I think it is more difficult to get 200+ hits in a season since 2001, than it was during the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Pitchers today are harder to hit. Ichiro is the greatest hitter the game has ever seen. Bare none.
I think he is a more efficient hitter, making him the better hitter. Will say though, I think Ichiro did not have a higher OBP though. The ultimate measure is total collection of all around hitting numbers and war even. Though Ichiro was a more valuable defender, I am not sure that Pete was not more valuable to his team.
Barry Bonds would wipe the floor with Ichiro, both versions of Bonds.
10 consecutive seasons in a row with 200+ hits by Ichiro. Not by Pete Rose.
hows abouts yous chokin on mines big ol black mamba
+Lawn Jockey dont be dumb kid
yuubokumin415 Rose is easily the hit king. Canadian football stats aren't translated to the nfl.. enough said. Ichiro's stats from over seas shouldnt be added here
^ what this guy said. Ichiro started in the MLB at the age of 27, and his rookie year broke the most hits in a single season record. If there was a huge talent difference between the Japanese and American play styles he wouldn't have been able to pull off numbers like that.
SF Giants Dynasty cfl just like japanese baseball are not the Top of the sport. Japanese baseball is like minor league.
Pete Rose is the MLB hit king. Ichiro is definitely the better hitter.
possumverde yes pure hitter but not all around player
Willie Baker ichiro is the better all around player, hits, power when needed, speed, a rocket launcher for an arm, and is such a class act
Oh no. Ichiro is better than Rose in just about every aspect. Ichiro had unbelievable defense, his approach to the plate is mature and just smart. Rose is a baseball god and knows the ins and outs of the game but Ichrio is a 5 tool player like we've ever seen one.
possumverde pete rose was a tougher out. didnt strike out as much. walked more and had a better OBP , hit better with runners on as he easily had more RBI's, and faced better pitchers during his career.
Houston Snelbaker they were both singles hitters. Rose had a better OBP and was a tougher out. walk is as good as a single in most cases especially since rose hit for a little more power and was easily a better hitter with runners on base, as rose has the edge in rbi's also. plus rose faced tougher pitchers. edge all a round goes to rose.
Absolutely agree with Griffey Sr., Pete rose should be in the hall of fame for what he did on the field.
And a 30+ year suspension from baseball is more than enough punishment for betting on his own team to win. MLB looks petty at this point.
@@seymourglass26 Problem was. MLB isn't being petty as each Commissioner made their decision not to lift Rose's ban after reading the original 200+ page report from the investigation. Rose was offered a suspension, the IRS at the behest of the FBI would drop his tax evasion charges and the FBI would get the NJ mobsters to forgive Rose's $500,000 of debt. Rose would have to publicly apologize for gambling on Baseball and go to rehabilitation for his gambling addiction. MLB and the FBI bent over backwards to give an American icon a break. As you know Rose thought he was too big and tried to bully Giamatti the Yale professor. Giamatti dropped the hammer on Rose. Rose went to prison for tax evasion and was banned from baseball for life. That's arrogance at its worst and not the most insidious things he did. Rose fed his addiction sometimes at the end by financing cocaine deals where he could double his money in two weeks. It's all in the report and there is a summary of the report in the link below, it's still a long read and even accuses Rose of betting against his team by not placing bets so his debtors would know not to bet on the Reds.
www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/
@@seymourglass26 rose claims he told his bookie before the season to bet X amount each game on the reds to win. He claims to have not been placing bets during the season when he would have more of a strategic advantage with injuries and matchups showing up. So theres that for whatever its worth
Yes sir
Pete Rose has 10 200 hit seasons within 24 years, Ichiro had 200 hit seasons in 10 straight years not in his prime. The discussion ends there lol
Ichiro... CLEARLY superior to Rose..
CLEARLY.
He was in his prime fella. Dont be stupid
@@erichvonmanstein6876 meaning what?
Ichiro was a better hitter...
There is no debate.
@@lifechild777 oh ok ,.because you said so. BWAHHHHHHH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! The record books disagree with you. I believe they are more credible then some weirdo on the internet saying "theres no debate" when CLEARLY myself and the record books are debating that. Sorry kid, try again.
@@lifechild777 meaning what? Meaning exactly.what it says fool, he WAS in his prime. Dont be stupid.
Pete is the MLB hit king!
But Ichiro is the better hitter, better all round player and better person!
No, Rose is the better hitter, look at their 162 game average. Rose has him beat on hits plus everything else. If you want to claim Ichiro was better defender or baserunner you have an argument but Rose was a better hitter.
Phil Hopkins you could definitely say that Rose was better at getting on base, not that he's the better hitter. 10 consecutive years with 200 hits shows Ichiro is the better hitter.
Rose hit a lot more doubles. So, he appears to have more power. Apparently Rose also played all outfield positions, and all infield positions, except short stop and pitcher.
you're kidding! Pete was an all star at 1st 3rd rf lf...come on...this is a joke
ORagnar if you’ve seen ichiro hit at all you know he hit a lot of singles on purpose and also had the power to get extra base hits if he really wanted to
They're separate records. The world title is a good solution. Pete is the MLB hit king. Pete should be in the Hall of Fame
Betting on baseball while being a player or manager (or both at the same time) will get you banned from the game. Pete belongs in the World Hall of Shame.
Ichiro, of course. a fabulous hitter of any kind of pitch, fabulous base runner, a polite humble man with never a whisper of scandal, no steroid use, etc. I could go on and on about why Ichiro should be chosen as the true hit King, hands down.
Pete Rose is the all time MLB hits leader. There's no debating that.
Ichiro will get to the HOF sooner. No debating that either. He's an all-time great.
Well put.
PETE ROSE H.O.F.!!!
Ichiro is the greatest all around player I have seen play the game.
Barry Bonds when he first got to San Francisco in 1993 was the greatest I have seen without juicing. Young Seattle phenoms Alex Rodriguez and Griffey Jr are close as well.
Trout
Rose is the hit king but if Ichiro were to have played here from the start he would have been...easily.
I think not
@@Cincinnatus1869 explain why not? He is 1200 hits off and started in the MLB when he was 27. He averaged 224 hits in the first 10 years of his MLB career and had 2/3rds of his career hits in that span. If he entered the MLB at age 21 and averaged even 200 hits in that span he catches rose. I mean the dude set the single-season record for hits when he was 30 in his 4th year. And his rookie year was 10th best ever and a rookie record! Again, explain if he had a normal start to his career how he wouldn't have set the record.
@@scottb3034 I don't know ,you may be right. But at the same time , if Rose had been hitting off of Japanese league pitching in his first 5 or 6 seasons instead of Koufax , Gibson, Seaver, Carlton, Marichal etc he'd surely have more hits too. Rose accumulated a lot of his hits in what was known as the ' era of the pitcher' , when ERAs were so low they lowered the mound to even things out for hitters. His first 5 seasons saw ERAs at their lowest since the dead ball era.
@@Cincinnatus1869 you might have a point with the era of the pitcher but i don't know what ichiro hitting off japanese pitching has to do with anything. Ichiro has 3000 hits against MLB pitching. None of the hits he got in the NPB count toward that total. He averaged 224 for 10 seasons against MLB pitching from 27-36. All I am saying is if he did anything remotely like that from 21-36 while in the MLB he'd have broken it. The Nippon Professional Baseball doesn't enter the equation in this scenario.
@@scottb3034 well , in any event he didn't break Rose's record or even get close to it. Nor has anyone else. Also Rose is in the top 10 all time in total bases and runs scored , and 2nd in career doubles . Ichiro was great at what he did , which was slap the ball and leg out singles. I don't take anything away from him but I know which guy I'd rather have in the lineup . Baseball is full of what if scenarios . But at the end of the day it's the championships and stats that count.
Definitely can't agree with SR about the pitching. Ichiro's faced some of the best pitchers of all-time and won... Walk-off against Mariano >.>
Rose was winning batting titles and collected most of his hits when the league ERA was at its lowest since the dead ball era .
@@abelincoln5698 Pete Rose got absolutely shit on by guys like Sandy Koufax, Randy Jones, and even Bob Forscht. I'm sorry but there's no way he would be able to compete against the competition Ichiro did. Rose was without a doubt the best of his era but to say that the competition at the time was anything other than inferior is completely silly.
According to Baseball-Reference.com, they both averaged 194 hits per 162 games over the course of their MLB careers. Rose averaged a .307 BA (162 game avg.), and Ichiro was .312. So just talking MLB, it's a wash, with Ichiro having a slight edge. Now add in Ichiro's phenomenal Japanese career (.353 over 9 seasons, with a staggering per 162 game average of 217 hits).... I think you have to give it to Ichiro.
Of course, they are playing in different eras, and for a little of a third of his career Ichiro played in a different league altogether. But those numbers are hard to ignore, and for 17 seasons in the MLB he matched and even surpassed Rose. Both incredible hitters, but in my opinion, Ichiro is the greatest hitter of all time.
Ichiro: www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=suzuki001ich
Rose: www.baseball-reference.com/players/r/rosepe01.shtml
And to throw another wrench in to the works, because we are talking about even more disparity in years, Ty Cobb averaged .366 over 24 years, 224 hits per 162.... that is insane.
Jeter was .308, 204 H per 162. Triss Speaker was .345, 204 H per 162. Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162...
Who is to say, really, which of them is better than the other? I can only say, in my humble opinion, that Ichiro is the best.
Mason Lafoon not to mention ichiro has the record of 10 consecutive years of 200+ hits in a season and in 2004 ichiro had his first record breaking 262 hits in one season and a batting average of .350 that season.
Japan means zero...you might as well start counting guys in the AAA
That stat is ridiculous. Your math doesn't work. How can you compare averages without the same amount of years? You legit said they both "averaged" those numbers over their respective MLB careers. Yes, that is correct. Yet, Pete Rose "averaged" those stats from 1963 to 1986, 23 years, while Ichiro "averaged" those stats from 2001 to 2019, 18 years. Pete Rose "averaged" those stats 5 seasons longer than Ichiro in MLB. How do we fix it? It's simple. You either take Ichiro's career totals and average it out over 23 years instead of 18, or you take Pete Rose's stats and average it out over 18 years instead of 23. That's the only way to have an equal playing field. Well, that's not fair. Ichiro leaves 5 years on the table. Okay, then do the math for Pete Rose's first 18 years and Ichiro's whole career. Just looking at it, I think Rose would win since his last 5 years would statistically be his worst, but I could be mistaken. My method is solid though. It's the only way to accurately compare it
Ichiro tore up MLB pitching in his rookie year and every year thereafter. He had better numbers against MLB pitching than he did against Japanese pitching. How can you say his hits shouldnt count? And dont pretend that Rose faced better pitchers. Todays players are night and day better athletes. Just face it. Ichiro is better than Rose. In fact you could argue that hes the best player ever. You cant even pretend to say that about Rose.
Old pitchers didn't have pitch counts so they could go up to 150-200 pitches a game. No way is that as effective as pitch #1 of the game. He got some due to fatigue.
Uhh....he hit .312 BA, 194 hits per 162 in the MLB over his 17 years, and over his 9 in the NPB he hit .353, 217 per 162...so no, he didn't hit better in the MLB than the NPB. But he still outhit Rose, who averaged .307, 194 hits per 162.
But then you also have:
Ty Cobb .366, 224 hits per 162.
Derek Jeter .308, 204 H per 162.
Triss Speaker .345, 204 H per 162.
Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162...
ubb4me i agree completely
You would have to either be Japanese or a moron to argue Ichiro is the best player ever.
Pete Rose had professional hits in the minors as well. Pete Rose put up better mlb numbers than what he did in the minors too, so Rose still has more hits.
I'll pick Tony Gwynn over anybody
Rose is like the Brett Favre of baseball. He played forever and amassed crazy amount of stats simply by playing the game a long time. Ichiro is the best contact and lead-off hitter the game has ever seen.
Japan pitching couldn't hold a candle to the pitchers Rose went against
Pete Rose was my first favorite player at age 8 hustling out a walk was awesome. Plus his intensity to win was awesome. Then came Griffey Jr, started really following him starting in 1997 being from the east coast. He was insane, everything he did was superhero like and no steroids. He was incredible to watch, I put on every game that was broadcast on MLB tv ,etc. He made it look so easy too, much here won't be another JR ever again, I wish he were still playing. It's incredible to think if he stayed in Seattle with Ichiro and Arod what he might have done, 60Hr seasons, 175+ RBI, and world series champions. Thanks for the awesome memories my friend.
I'll take Pete Rose, and Ken Griffey, Sr, over Griffey, Jr. for one reason: they were vital parts of winning teams. For better or worse, Griffey, Jr. seldom played on teams that finished over .500 on the season. Rose and Griffey, Sr. played on World Championship teams that included Joe Morgan, Johnny Bench, Tony Perez, George Foster, and many others who did a bunch of winning.
@@docadams7099 Lol you go ahead and do that, and then don't cry when Junior's team whoops yours!
Japanese League is like a AAA team here in America!
Charlie Hustle is the hit king!
And Ichiro is one of my favorite players all time!
Nonsense dude.
Ichiro is the ALL TIME BEST.
He did things Rose didn't even do...
Ichiro was clearly the hit king.
@@lifechild777 Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
@@thunderousooner527 I know exactly how many hits Pete Rose had...
But when you amass ALL of Ichiro's time in Japan it plays out to roughly 6 years..
If judging by the amount of hits Ichiro managed during his time here...and think another 6 years wouldn't have made a difference... you're smoking some rreeaaaalll serious delusion buddy...
I absolutely hate the media. No doubt Ichiro is one of the top 10 hitters of all time. But he played in Japan where the level play is no where near as it is in the states. He was simply a freak of nature who bordered on godlike abilities. But let's not take anything away from Rose or other American ball players who played against the best in the world.
Good to see Sr and Jr.
*"Ichiro has a lot of fun out there, you know when he throws out 262 hits in a year, and most guys are throwing out 130-150 and he's almost doubling it......"*
If i had to start a team in baseball i want pete rose. Leadoff and leader!
Has there ever been a father and son with more class and talent then Sr and Jr. .. think not. Also about time for Pete.
Ichiro had 200+ hits the first season he got here, which means he would have been able to hit mlb pitching even if he came here 5+ years earlier.
but he didnt. sooo you cant just assume his stats.
Ichiro 1000%
Wrong Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose. I’m counting the minor leagues. Since Japan baseball is this like the minor leagues
true
Charlie Hustle is the king
Poor Pete Rose doesn't have any sportsmanship
he has aggression, do not mistake yourself
roy wong he had passion
Bro he entered the league when he was 27, won the mvp his first year broke George sisslers record. And had two hall of fame careers. To me he’s the all time hit king.
Bro, Pete Rose had more hits after the age of 27 than Ichiro. Ichiro had a few good years. Rose had more.
Ichiro went 2-9 his first at bats and since then never dropped below .300. It didn’t take him a season or 3 to adjust to mlb pitching. It just took him a couple of games. You can compare mlb and Japanese pitchers all you want but Ichiro could flat out hit. Hit king for me.
In a few years, Ichiro will be the Cooperstown hit king.
I can’t see how anything outside MLB could possibly count. Pete’s definitely lucky that ichiro didn’t play here throughout his career.
both are great player's!
Ok... count Ichiro's non-MLB stats.
Now count all MLB players non-MLB (A, AA, AAA) stats. Add Pete's 600+ minor league hits. Oh no! "That's different!" Yes... but still a professional league.
The MLB stats are for MLB not other leagues. It really is that simple.
MomanSLM by the way I just checked Ichiro’s minor league hits in Japan
It’s 156
@@ひろぽん-c9x Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
Arguing about sports is fun. First, Pete Rose accumulated the hits record in 24 MLB seasons, while Ichiro played basically only 17 MLB seasons (not counting the last 2 seasons of the farewell tour where he played a combined 17 games). Second, MLB is more competitive than the Japanese league, therefore, cannot include Ichiro's #s outside of MLB. In summary, Pete Rose has the most career hits at 4256, plus 10 seasons of 200 hits, versus Ichiro who has the most single-season hits with 262, plus 10 consecutive 200-hit seasons. BOTH ARE HIT KINGS!!
Most of those who think Rose is above Ichiro also think Ruth is above Ohtani. They also tend to be White Americans. What a coincidence, right? 😂
that's right Ken what he did on the field not off the field as for Ichiro they don't have American pitching over there as I've been close to a competitor is in the pitching in the usa
Boy, Junior really whaled up.
Class Act SR and JR Griffey . 👏
I watched both players and I they were both great and one of a kind. I have seen some strange posts about white privilege for Pete Rose. During the 1960s Pete played on Reds teams that were four to five starters black and Cuban. In the 1970's except for Johnny Bench and Pete Rose all the starting position players were black, Cuban or Venezuelan with some exceptions. Pete was mentored on the Reds by Frank Robinson and Vada Pinson. The 1960's National League featured some of the best black pitchers ever. Bob Gibson, Earl Wilson, Ferguson Jenkins to name a few. Please do research before making "white privilege" comments.
Totally agree with Sr...Ichiro is an amazing athlete and 1st rate HOF'er. Both were hit machines. Imo Rose is still the hit king.
Pete rose is the hitqueen
"I still think he's the hit king"
K.
Ichiro the hit God though.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
@@thunderousooner527 If Silver looked like gold, it would be gold.
I GO WITH ICHIRO
Me too
ICHIRO
Here’s how I.t is. Ichiro is the greatest of all time
MLB ＝ 162 games in a season, Japan has only 143games.
That's why Ichiro has reached over 200hits in a season is only one time.
Pete Rose is the MLB hit king but Ichiro is the Overall Baseball hit king and more complete player Rose did his thing in like 20 yr career Ichiro was the fastest to 3000 hits 240+ hits as rookie and has the record 262 hits in a season and 9 or 10 consecutive yrs of 200+ hits Rose can't say that
Rose is on TH-cam in an interview series where he calls Japanese baseball "the minor leagues." He is very adamant that Ichiro's numbers in Japan are not "major league" baseball.
Rose was an all star at 5 positions..
Japan baseball is like AA ball ..
Rose wins
Ichiro didn't play against the '70s and '80s Japanese pitchers. He played against the '90s Japanese pitchers when they were good enough that they were starting ti get recruited in the US. Plus, just because the style of play is different and thus one country can beat another regularly doesn't take away from the individual greatness. Satahara Oh hadn't seen splitters sonhe couldn't hit one, fair enough. But there's no reason to think that he wouldn't have been just as good against splitterd as he was against other pitches if he had a chance to play with that pitch in the game. Like Babe Ruth, Oh and Ichiro were so far above the players they faced there is no doubt of their greatness. And Ichiro proved that when you take a player like that and give him the experience in MLB style baseball, he can excel there too. Ichiro was criticozed for winning Rookie of the Year because he wasn't really a rookie (I agreed with that sentiment). But if you criticize that, you'd better not also deny how much he deserves the recognition as the Hit King.
Pete rose is the hit king. I grew up watching Ichiro and always admired him and thought he was great. However sad it might be to some, MLB is the tippy top of the mountain for baseball players to compete in and thats where the hits will be counted. You can theory craft all day, but it is what it is. Pete Rose, Hit King.
Rose should be a hall of famer...that said, Ichiro did better in MLB than in the Japanese League, also was a prolific base-stealer with one of the best if not the best arms in MLB history.
I'll take Clemente.
Ichiro was far better than Rose. I'm sorry. Considering his production went up (in terms of hits per season) from Japan to MLB, Ichiro would have gotten more hits than Rose if he had started his career in the big leagues. Throw in his far-superior speed and the 10 consecutive 200 hit seasons, and its a lock.
Uhh....he hit .312 BA, 194 hits per 162 in the MLB over his 17 years, and over his 9 in the NPB he hit .353, 217 per 162...so no, he didn't hit better in the MLB than the NPB. But he still outhit Rose, who averaged .307, 194 hits per 162.
But then you also have:
Ty Cobb .366, 224 hits per 162.
Derek Jeter .308, 204 H per 162.
Triss Speaker .345, 204 H per 162.
Paul Warner .333, 200 H per 162...
Dude youre talking singles...rose was better at everything else when it comes to hitting and had a higher on base which is the most important stats when comparing leadoff hitters.
Justin Amenta Nah bruh. Ichiro played in an era with faster, more athletic defenders and hard-throwing specialized relievers. When Rose played, guys were slower and starting pitchers stayed in the game way longer. Ichiro also played during the steroid era and he played during an era with a lot more defensive shifts and shit like that as well.
Ichiro lost 5 or 6 prime years by playing in Japan. Had he played those years in the majors, he would have broken the MLB hits record without a shadow of a doubt and he also would have ended up with around 700 stolen bases. *Bottom line:* Ichiro is the more gifted, more athletic, better baseball player period. Saying Pete Rose is better is like saying Wilt Chamberlain was a better NBA center than Shaquille O'Neal.
Different playing styles and eras. Both amazing hitters, BECAUSE of their different styles. Pete won it all, played longer in MLB so he never got to face the level of pitching in Japan that Ichiro did (whatever the result might have been). Pete also hit very well from both sides of the plate, in a LOT more ballparks. End verdict: both deserve recognition, and it’s a healthy debate for respectful fans, writers and players.
Having parents from cincy and being born in Seattle... I’m torn by it. But even though he gambled, Pete is the hit king. No debate...
I think yes, absolutely Rose is the hit king.... but I think Ichiro was the better player overall. He dominated all aspects of play. Steals, defense and hitting. Ichiro was a beast!
It's pretty simple. Pete Rose holds the MLB career hits record, but Ichiro was better than Rose.
hahah why are you so bad at making jokes?
pete rose!!!
I see Griffey Sr. forgot where he came from. I doubt he was like anyone to say the Nergo league was inferior baseball.
Great point!
It is a fact that Japan's game was just developing in a significantly less populated country. Get over it.
p51abc ichiro is overall hits King. You get over it. 🐐🐐
Jackiezyon Ichiro didn't play against much competition in Japan. Rose played against top teer athletes his whole career
firebird_SPLEEN
Then if didn't play "top" competition in Japan ?!?How do you explain his complete domination of MLB pitching?
Pete Rose is the Hit King. End of discussion.
Ichiro=🐐
Pete Rose is the 🐐 Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
I forgot to mention that Ichiro is also an excellent outfielder. Guess that could have remained in the etc., but is too important to leave there.
I always wished the cubs would of got him instead of Soriano years back, what could of been. Ichiro style of hitting changed the American game and his approach to offense led to teams like the Royals of 2015.
Back when ESPN started up with 'race, race, race, race'. I love the difference in answers between the Griffey's
Both are insightful and engaging men, mad respect for both.
Pete Rose had a good point about this debate, he mentioned that if your going to count Ichiro’s Japan league hits then you should count his Triple A hits in the minor leagues which was at the same or better level of Japanese baseball. All that being said I grew up a Mets fan and watched Pete Rose his whole career. I hated him at the time but he was a phenomenal contact hitter and competitor facing better pitching his whole career than Ichiro. However Ichiro is an Athletic freak of nature who’s world class speed from the left side of the plate got him an unbelievable 75 infield hits one year. Ichiro’s 262 hits in 2004 is a record that will probably never be broken. That total is two seasons of hits for most players. His ability to put the ball in play and speed on the bases is unmatched in major league history, it put tremendous pressure on the fielders.I firmly believe if Ichiro played his whole career in the major leagues here he definitely would’ve beat Pete Roses record!
4 of my all time faves. Nice legs too. WIN, WIN, WIN, WIN, AND WIN.
Ichiro started at 27 in MLB. Let that sit in for a minute .. but Pete is MLBs Hits-Leader. We can’t take CFL records of Warren Moon and add them to NFLs
It should be noted that Pete Rose got his batting titles and a whole lot of his hits during the ' era of the pitcher' , the 1960s and 70s when league ERAs were at their lowest since the dead ball era. Ichiro was getting his in an era of inflated offense. Nobody was inclined to include Japanese league statistics in any players career totals before Ichiro , so why are they now? I admire Ichiro a lot and enjoyed watching him . I think he is one of the most talented ballplayers I've seen. But he didn't get all his hits against the same competition Rose did because the Japanese leagues don't have the depth and talent in pitching that the MLB does. Nobody's close to catching Rose
Ichiro has the MLB single season hit record, and the records for most overall and most consecutive 200 hit seasons in the MLB. There is nothing to suggest his Japanese hits shouldn't matter or count towards the All time pro record. He hit BETTER once he came to the states. He essentially invented his own style of play. He is the GOAT contact hitter no doubt and it isn't that close.
ICHIRO!
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose. Pete Rose is the hit king not Ichiro.
Pete Rose is the king in the U.S.
Ichiro is the king in the world.
Pete Rose has 4683 hits that’s including the minors league. Pete Rose hits 427 in the miners. In the Major league 4256 hit. 427 + 4256=4683 hits. If Pete played all 27 year in the major league Pete Rose would have more hits then he dose.
true
Back then hitting was the same level as now but pitching was way crappier. In the 70s pitchers only threw 70-85 mph but now most pitchers throw from 91-105
Ichiro is much better all round player than rose
Rings are based on team effort. If one player is great, but the rest of the teammates are not so good, you can't get good results.
JackAsshley Judd Rose has better defensive and offensive skills? In what way? Rose doesn't have gold gloves
JackAsshley Judd no it's not
Rose has 2 Gold Gloves, 1969 and 1970.
Much better what? Take out singles and stolen bases and what the fuck do you got? Dont be stupid
Rose is the mlb hit king. If ichiro plays his whole career in mlb he gives pete rose a run and honestly i think he passes it and probably comes close to 5000. If you compare japan and usa theres like a 30 game difference in regular season so i think ichiro woulda easily passed him and maybe hit 5k
Griffey Sr. nailed it.
If Ichiro started his career in MLB, he could have broke Pete's record much sooner, due to playing 162 games (in MLB) compare to 144 games in Japan.
"Most hits" does not translate to "best hitter." As long as we get that out of the way, I say Rose is a better hitter, Ichiro the more dangerous baseball player.
Ichiro was a good hitter, but a lot of his MLB success was contingent on his ability to leg out infield singles. The actual hitting part might not've been the best part of his game, ironically. Still, you're judged by the totality of your accomplishments on the field, and as far as the scoreboard goes, there's often no difference between a slowly hit ground ball and a solid rope one-hopper to right, and you can't discount that Ichiro was an elite baserunner, fielder, and thrower.
Go ahead, count Ichiro's Japanese hits. Then add Pete's minor league hits to his total as well. Pete is the hit King, and Ichiro is a pretender.
Tennessee Cheak that’s what no one else understands lol
even as an Asian American, grew up watching both Rose and Ichiro.. it's not even close... I take Rose and what he brought to the team over Ichiro any day.... Rose played the game like no other I've seen in 50 years of watching baseball....
Japan baseball pitching is nothing compared to MLB Pete had tougher pitching to go against Pete is the goat
Paraphrase Baseball Legend, Mr Ken Griffey sr. "When we went there we were 17-0..Those guys never even seen a sinker." THANK YOU! Yet some want to even consider for a second Ichiro's hits versus Pete Rose. Rose is the hit king and that record will never be broken. Pete Rose minor league pitchers were more challenging than the average pitcher in Japan during that era.... probably even college pitchers.
Yes, minor league and college pitcher in the U.S were probably better than Japanese Pitchers in the 70s. It's not like Ichiro played in the 70s tho.
If you really want to be fair and if you really mean all-time hits king for professional baseball , it has to be Ichiro.Just like the all-time home run king has to be Sadaharu Oh with 868.That's if you really mean "Professional Baseball".
I do too, enough said!
Ichiro is the hit king. We can not take away Pete roses acomplishments even if he was on an uneven playing field because of his ped use, but ichiro is the hit king.
The "Hit King" debate is ultimately pointless, but here's a take.
It depends on what your criteria are. You could value any of the following in any measure:
batting average, strikeout rate, total hits, extra base hits
Heck, no one's out here calling Babe Ruth the Hit King even though he finished with a career batting average 30 points higher than either Rose or Ichiro. So really what people are asking is "who is the best contact hitter that didn't also hit for power regularly?" There's really no "best" contact hitter, but i think the player who best exemplified that style of hitting is Tony Gwynn. Gwynn's base hit total doesn't compare too favorable to Rose's, but Gwynn didn't have the benefit of playing on the Big Red Machine for a decade. Better offense means you get to step up to the plate more times each game. This combined with Tony Gwynn's comparatively poor stamina means Rose chalked up way more plate appearances (about 120) each season. But Gwynn was, on a typical day, more likely to get a base hit, and Gwynn was mythologically difficult to strike out.
Pete Rose holds the record, and he may be the Hit King, but there have been better contact hitters than him (many, in fact) across baseball's history. I think Gwynn is the finest non-power contact hitter since integration. Narrow title, but credit where credit is due.
Can't compare MLB in states to ANY other country!!!! Pete's the King!!! 👑
It's impossible to compare the two, honestly
If you're going to count total professional hits, Pete Rose is still the Hit King by a lot, with 4,683, including his roughly 2 years in the minors. If you're going to count all of Ichiro's professional hits, you have to do the same for Pete. Period.
Pete rose maybe the hit king but Ichiro is a better all around player
Did you ever see Ichiro play 3b or 2b and be an all star at both positions?
@@Gnofg ichiro was better. 7 gold gloves
Got to give it to Ichiro, it doesn’t hurt that he’s also a good man.
Don't look down Ichiro's Japanese baseball career.
Japanese league had 130 games in a year at Ichiro's active era, but MLB has 162 games.
from 2001 to 2011, Ichiro has average 732 at bat in a year, but he had average 561 at bad, highest 613 at bat in his Japanese career exclude his rookie 2 years.
He had only 1 time to get 200+ hits in Japan, although he achieved 10 consecutive years 200+ hits in MLB.
Of course MLB is highest level league in professional base ball, and not should be added his Japanese hits to MLB hits. but his achievement of Japanese baseball career should be praised more.
MLB hit king is Pete, but Ichiro is not so bad.
let him in damn it. Sr. got it right, it's for what he accomplished ON the field that counts, not off.
Braedon Fisher thanks for the bs info. if its about how you are off the field then why are Ruth,Cobb and a hundred more in? and what about the PED users,some of them will get in sooner or later and alot of ppl say that Rose knowingly broke the rules,well so did any PED user. The first one linked to Roids that gets elected should automatically put Rose in.