Drivetrain Comparison - What are they like own the real world. Pinion, Rohloff, Gates, 1x11, 1x12
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2020
- A real world explanation of the different drivetrains I have on. my bikes.
Tout Terrain Outback 29er hardtail with Pinion Gearbox and Gates Carbon Belt Drive.
Tout Terrain Silkroad 26" wheeled Rohloff hub gearbox with Gates Carbon belt Drive
Santa Cruz 29er full sus 1x12
Bearclaw Thunderhawk Road+ (gravel) 650b with 1x11
Tout Terrain Silkroad 26" wheeled 3x10
Brompton 6 speed
We all must part with things that we love but no longer need. My friend, you have reached that point.
Always wanted a comparison like this. Thanks! Epic bike collection, you're a connoisseur!
😀😀 many thanks for your comment! I used to have a lot more. I loved my Moulton TSR, fatbike and tandem. I also had a few other titanium pinion and Rohloff bikes but I have got rid of them over the last few months because of the space issue. So I am left with my Tout Terrain Outback as my mountain bike, a Black Mountain road bike, a 1988 Specialised Rockhopper converted to touring bike, my folding bike is a Brompton and I have Tout Terrain Scrambler with Pinion arriving start of June which I am looking forward to. I did not want to get rid of any of them but paying for storage was costing too much. I have a very long list of bikes I would like to get, but my partner would kick my ass if I started to build it back up again 😂😂
@@RidingBicycles That's fantastic. I really like your choice of bikes. I've owned 7 bikes at most, although not nearly as nice as your Pinion and Rohloff bikes. I'd love to own a brompton and at least one Pinion or Rohloff bike!
When the time is right the dreams bikes will find you 😀👍
Amazing comparison sir, nice collection of bikes and drivetrains. I ‘m a fan of deferent drivetrains and working on my collection. Loved your work sir. Thank you.
My pleasure
Great video. The maintenance issue is what virtually stopped me from cycling, especially during the winter The time it took to clean the bike after a muddy ride, or salty roads (on top of the ride time as well) meant it took all day, and as you say....It's no fun cleaning your bike outside in the freezing cold!
Yeh just went out on the Pinion bike in the snow. Just got back hoses it down in less than two minutes and put it away. After a hose down the bike ends up looking brand new as there is no oil from a chain to mucky your paintwork and clog up in little spaces that you can never get to with brushes and degreaser. Gearbox and belt drive is definitely the way forward!
I am on a custom built pinion gearbox belted world traveling touring mountain bike. Have over 40,000k on the same belt. You want to add some gear oil every 2 months cause some evaporates and it will get harder to pedal. Also keep your belt tension slightly lower. Without bags I can keep up with most anyone on a road bike or mtb on the dirt also. Running the right tires helps too. My bike can run different wheelsets. 26x5", 29plus, 700x40 and any 27.5" many bikes in one. Shifting under load, no problem. Climbing and trist shifyer no problem. Zero maintenance in the most extreme weather, no problem. Getting the right frame is most important from a builder that understands that a pinion bike has different needs.
Excellent, all the same reasons I love mine 👍🏽
I have had two Pinion gearboxes and two Rohloffs can’t fault them one bit. Good travels on your journey 👍🏽
What would you say are the different needs a frame builder should account for in a pinion bike? I assume tougher seat stays and chainstays? Also for the split seat stay if using a belt. What’s is your experience/ opinion?
I know I'm late to this party, but just wanted to say thanks for making the vid. I only ever have a stable of one, so glad to hear you would pick the pinion 12 speed, as that's what I chose. It's a Sonder Broken Road Pinion and it's due to be delivered in about a month, super stoked can't wait to ride it. All the best from the Peak District.
Nice bike and excellent value! Enjoy
Great video. I'm a big fan of the gevenelle friction shifters that mount the friction shifters on the front of your road bicycle (drop handle bar) brake levers. I've got them on all my touring (Trp hylex) and commuter bicycles and tandem. Although for less stress my "female tourer friend" is upgrading to rohloff (and tout terrain blue ridge GT) as it's less stress for me (unfortunately the small frame doesn't do pinion) to because they have been prone to snapping chains with bad gear selection in driving Scottish rain in the middle of nowhere...
Great video, and as relevant in 2022 as it was in 2020. I've ridden all drivetrain types, and recently sold my titanium Vassago with XTR 1x12 and built a Priority 600x (built wheels with I9 Hydra and i40, 29x2.8, carbon Jones bar, Paul Klampers, etc) and I absolutely LOVE it. Like you, I've had people think that it is an e-bike >
Yep you don’t need to keep up with new irrelevant standards that are constantly changing when you go down the line of a Pinion and Rohloff. Combined with a Gates belt. Unstoppable. Love the sound of your build. Some quality components on that beauty!
I love my single speed belt drive bike! I have a Rohloff one as well. I'm not in a rush, just a pleasure to ride.
I think my dream setup would be two hardtail bikes, one a permanent single speed setup, the other a pinion 9spd XR and just share the wheelset (since both can use a single speed specific hub). Just found your channel btw, earned another sub, really like your content. Thanks
👍🏽 Nice combination! If I had the space I can quite easily think of hundreds of bikes I would have. When I think of the ones I have sold over the last two years that I would of loved to have kept it makes me feel woozy! Glad you like the channel. It is just a bit of a hobby I fit alongside my teaching job. Over the next few weeks there will be a regular update on the retro Marin conversion. Over the summer, if we are allowed to cross the border I have two bike packing trips plan that will be youTubed. One being the Caingorme Loop and the other The Great North Trail from Edinburgh to John o Groats. So hopefully they may be if interest to you ✌🏽
Honest and helpful opinions there, much appreciated!
Agree on under load shifting. Not an issue at all. I ride BMC Shimano hub bike for last 4 years as a daily commuter. Shifting is a very quick click. I can keep turning pedals maybe with a bit less power for a second or less. Doesn't change my speed at all usually. My commute is 12 miles each direction. I also commute on Specialized Roubaix sometimes. Time difference is about 5-7 minutes each way. Bike weight difference is almost 6kg. I live in NYC my guess without lights, cars and pedestrians time difference can extend up to 10-15 minutes due to aero position and weight difference. Or maybe I'm just trying harder on a road bike.
Outstanding presentation: you sold me on the pinion for my next bike
Just been out on my Pinion and did a quick video. Will put it on today. Not a slick vid as I did not plan to do one 👍🏽
I had a Schwann bike with shifters like that. I was so happy to get rid of it!! Had it for 40 years. I never want to go back to derailers ever again. Never. 40 years of noise, jumping chain, etc matter how many times I tuned up or adjusted it.
that is one awesome bike collection. have a like and a subscribe...and cheers for choosing that weather. :D
Great video thanks..has helped set my mind on gearbox
I'm into XC and trail centres so I'm still scratching my head a bit to the point of thinking I'll go make one at a bike building course (I'm a welder).
Doesn't seem a big choice still.
I would not get a Rohloff if you like your mountain bike rides. The Pinion would be the way to go. Alpkit (Sonder) do a titanium Pinion 29er you might like. I don’t know where you would get the Pinion cradle if you were building your own bike and frame need to be stress tested by Gates to get certified as fit for belt installation as a belt puts massive toque through the frame. And remember if you are doing belt you would need a rear triangle that splits somewhere so you can get the belt in and sliding dropouts so you can tension the belt.
I agree with you 💯, pinions with tubeless tires for lighter wheels and less flats, very little maintenance besides checking tire pressure.
👍🏽👍🏽
I still have my Schwinn Le Tour and it was a great bike in it's day: light and efficient. But I bought a Priority Turi three years ago and it's been absolutely maintenance free: Ride it and wash it and that's it. So I became a big fan of the Gates Belt drive.
For my birthday this year I bought myself the Priority 600 that has the Pinion C1.12 with the Gates Belt as well and if there was one bike I would be stuck with forever it would have to be the 600. Not just because I have more faith in a gearbox than I have in the Enviolo NuVinci fluid drive, which I do even though in 7000 miles on the Eviolo it has performed flawlessly. It's because the 600 has gravel tires and the frame seems to be more sturdy. I've got it decked out with pannier and porteur racks and use it to go to the chemist and such.
So I agree completely with your decision to go with the Pinion C1.12 and the Gates Carbon Belt Drive. I don't know what shipping would be from New York to the Isles ,but to Florida they shipped it free and the bike itself was $2350 USD with Florida sales tax included.
Prioritybicycles.com Have a gander mates.
It seems a really nice bike. Keep on enjoying! I love the low maintenance of a belt. Completely worry free when on a tour.
Thanks for the in depth video. We don’t have near the options for bikes here in Canada generally only alfine gearhub but I’m now in the market for a vsf tx 400 with Rohloff I think as a do all bombproof commuter for weekend excursions
Checkout Solace Cycles too. They do a nice OM2 P with pinion that would make a good commuter and off road weekend tourer
@@RidingBicycles I got rid of my Devinci Troy unfortunately due to back issues so only road or hard surface biking for me. Unfortunately canada doesn’t have a great selection of bikes for commuting and to import is costly to Canada
Personally I hated the friction shifting in my 1982 Panasonic DX, they constantly needed calibration due to cable stretch, and I always had to worry about chain rubbing and not having the range to give the chain clearance, or having to much range and over-shooting and having the chain pop off. Also you have to finesse the pull, too light and it would just rub and rub without shifting, too hard and the chain would pop off again. As I would ride I would constantly have to be aware of the derailleur and making sure it wasn't rubbing the chain, and as I put power down I noticed it would slightly move and need more fiddling. I would take my bike to the shop to be professionally inspected and calibrated and come out with the same issues I entered with.
Admittedly most of my issues were with the front derailleur and that wouldn't have been an issue with a one-by drivetrain, however I still had overshifting and derailing with the rear cassette occasionally, or gears being out of range. Also you had to be careful not to shift too many gears at a time or your chain would come off or get jammed.
Meanwhile my most recent bike has index shifting and has nary an issue after 800+ miles on it. I also can shift gears three at a time no problem. Super clean, fast, reliable, easy shifting, I love it. I also don't have to take my hand off of the bar and away from the brake levers and reach way down my down tube to shift by feel while looking straight, or look at my rear derailleur while climbing or sprinting to see if I have an extra gear to shift to so I don't force my chain off the freewheel to reach a gear I thought I had.
That being said I did appreciate what you said regarding the ability to use whatever set of cogs or derailleurs you want with it.
Hi if your chain popped off it sounds like your limit screws were not adjusted correctly as that should not happen with any system. I can hang off my levers in any direction and the chain only goes to the last cog. You also mention chain rub, the beauty of friction is that they are not effected by cable stretch and you can move the front derailleur to any angle (trim) the chain line indefinitely. You should of known me back then and I would of had it running perfectly for you 😃😃 the main thing is you are happy with what you use and it gets you out on your bike. Stay safe and happy travels 👍🏽👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles I actually rode that bike until I heard a funny noise from the chain every time I put down power with my right leg. I checked it out on the side of a busy expressway at night and saw I had completely snapped my seattube off at the bottom bracket, through the lug! That was a butted cromoly frame, too! That was a scary ride home. I bought a new bike, and the day before it arrived my Panny was stolen from my garage. It wasn't the only thing stolen, but ultimately insurance covered it so I guess it all worked out in the end. I rode it until it was all used up and some one took it away and someone else paid for it (well not really, the deductible was 3X the bike value but at least it took out some of the sting.)
Always nice to see someone with more bikes than yourself
😂 I wish I just had one that would do most ok. Have yet to find that beauty. So I will need to keep on trying. Custom made titanium with loads of comfy stack height and the possible of 2” tyres is on the mind at the moment. That seems like it would do off road, touring and commuting duties. Well in my mind it does when I tell the girlfriend
Its always a constant evolution, so the one bike fits all thing isnt a reality.
My dad used to go on at me about my moderate bike hoarding, but then he was a chronic gambling addict,
Nothing wrong with having a stable,
Just make sure you never have a go on a recumbent,
The Danube + hp velotechnik streetmachine, omg totally a gateway bike
Umm that sounds special. Now another one to try! 😂😀
2:14 OK, definitely got bike envy now. I was alright with the 18sp Pinion but the matched pair of duelling Bromptons just tipped me over the edge :-)
:) :) We had three, but our daughter has got too cool for cycling so we got rid of her pink one about 6 months ago!! At the same time of getting rid of my white Moulton TSR. Sorry to send you green :) :)
I just have one bike make but 2 bikes, they are both Rohloff hub geared Thorn Nomads, both frames have the S&S coupled frames which makes transport easier.
One has got suspension forks and the other has a special HD tandem fork with the attachments for front panniers. They both have Hope 4 pot Calipers and 203mm vented discs on the front and rear, they give great braking and commonality of spare parts.
I might get see if my frames rear triangle can be adapted to fit the break to enable the Gates carbon belt, if that is a no go then I will fit a Veer belt drive system as the carbon belt for this splits.
This is a great and very informative video, especially for those cyclists with no knowledge of hub and pinion drive systems.
The newer Thorn bikes have a rear that splits so it depends how old yours are. I love the Thorn brand. If I did not have the Tout Terrains I would have got a Thorn myself. I use SJS cycles for all my reliable bike components. They are an excellent service for people that like quality parts for travel by bike.
@@RidingBicycles My frames are the Thorn Nomad Mk2 which does not have the rear splits. It is their newest frames that were first available in 2020 that have the frame split on the tear triangle, but none of them are available with the S&S couplings.
Like you I get most of my bike stuff from SJS Cycles, the range of components and service is 2nd to none.
6:25 i have had one of these bikes back in the day, and it was great.
now i am a day or two older^^ and don`t go racing or trail riding, so i bought a rohloff e14, and i love it as well.
i tried the enviolo, but this was not my cup of tea, because it is geat on flat ground, but it sucks when you are climbing up steep hills.
I have never heard “go easy” and “go hard” to describe gear shifting, and let me just say it’s brilliant. I hate the way language let’s us down and have always hated how up, down, higher, lower, faster, slower, or any numericals, just fail get across a clear concept.
😂 I did not think about what I was saying but if it helps I might be more aware now 👍🏽👌🏽
really useful video...no annoying music just real wind!! I desperately want a gearbox system, have been watching Revonte One system which is taking years to come to fruition SO can I retro fit a Pinion or Rohloff to my Focus jam 2 EMTB ?..the belt might prove a problem unless they can be split ...otherwise its hacksaw to the frame....dont fancy that.
Cheers. You cannot fit a Pinion to a bike, but you will be able to fit a Rohloff. If your bike does not have sliding dropouts you will need a chain tensioner, Rohloff make these too. You will not be able to use a belt as you need a certificate frame that splits to allow the belt to fit through the rear triangle. To show you what the rear chain tensioner looks like on a full sus Rohloff bike go to the link below. You can also navigate the site to work out what Rohloff fitment you require.
www.rohloff.de/en/service/search/bike-finder/details/item/mola-aventuro
Btw some of my vids have annoying music 🤣✌🏽
That's a serious bike collection.
It used to be a lot bigger with a Fatbike, tandems, a Moulton and few titanium road and touring bikes In the last month I have trimmed it down to a Brompton, Tout Terrain Outback, 1988 Rockhopper and a Tout Terrain Scrambler coming start of June. 👍🏽
I don’t own a car so it is my little pleasures 😀
What a crazy folk you are:) good!
If you do your maintenance by yourself you have to buy tools and mechanical components if you do it by a professional you have to take it to the shop not to mention that because of covid there's a shortage for some bike parts (personal experience) and you have to wait. Pinion and Rohloff gives you a piece of mind especially if you do long distance you don't worry, it's ready to go.
Definitely, people would not put up tinkering with the brakes and gears in theirs everytime they went out, but they do with a bicycle. Rohloff and Pinion complete peace of mind everytime I go for a ride.
I have one MTB full squish and one gravel bike, both with Rohloff chain drive. No problems staying up or ahead of my friends....My road bike is derailleur. Love the Rohloffs more for mtbiking...Tore off my share of derailleurs....no more.
Yeh they are so practical. I maybe should of added that when I ride the heavy expedition tourer with a group my friends would be on light road bikes. So it is down to different bikes as well as the Rohloff 👍🏽
Weight and cadence are the main reasons in using modern derailleur setups for road cycling, by serious cyclists for training. For casual riding the derailleur system is still the cheapest option and indexing is a very nice commodity for not much money. I prefer Sram's DoubleTap to friction for mechanical setups, but AXS is amazing.
The gearbox will probably be the next logical step, we're just not there yet, me thinks.
Hi. Thanks for your video comparisons of drivetrains. At 17:20, you mentioned that in a group ride you might watch your mates get further ahead of you on a downhill. Are you saying that there is more of a drag on a Pinion or Rohloff bike than a derailleur system. Does a derailleur drivetrain coast better (less drag) than a Pinion or Rohloff bike? I want to know because I'm considering a new touring bike (Co-Motion Americano) with a Pinion drivetrain (and I love coasting). Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Hi there is no drag on downhills with Pinion, the difference in speed between the bikes my friends ride is purely down to the the type of bikes they are riding. My friends all ride dropbar skinny tyres. Even my Tout Terrain Scrambler has 40 plus mm tyres. The Pinion only has a single speed hub rotating when coasting so in theory it should be just the same has other single speed bikes. As regards to an experiment I did with the Rohloff when I seemed to be peddling more. I was on a 26” wheeled touring bike and my lighter friend was on a 27.5” mtb bike. At the top of a hill we let our feet’s off the floor and she definitely would pick up speed faster, and I definitely needed to pedal more to keep momentum. That could be down to the difference in wheel size. The width of the tyres, the type of terrain, the tread pattern.
I will be completely honest and say that if you love bikes to be as light as possible because you enter races or ride in fast groups then a Rohloff or Pinion might not be the best idea. BUT for a touring or commuting or general bike for to be used for everything I would not look at anything else.
I have been without a Pinion or Rohloff bike for a few months as I sold my bikes to make way for one bike that will do everything for me. My commute, road tours, off road tours and weekend rides. In the meantime I have been using derailleur bikes and it has made me even more convinced for gearboxes and belts. The cleaning and oiling. The fact you can’t get it spotlessly clean, the fact I would not do a ride because the weather was bad and I knew I would need to service the bike at the end. When you use a gearbox and belt for any length of time you get spoilt and wonder why this other stuff is still in use. You then come to the realisation it is all just trickling tech from marketing from races and is if no use to 90% of people that just want to ride bikes in confidence with there parts.
My brother the other day said that is bike is in a right state from winter rider and it is all gunked up with lube and needs a full strip down. I have tried to convince him of the gearbox but he rides around with shaved legs looking like he took a wrong turn in the Tour de France so he has no interest at all.
Anyway I digress. I do have a Rohloff and belt conversion for the Salsa Fargo for my partners bike and I have my dream do anything bike coming in the next few weeks. It is a Solace cycles pinion and I have a custom Ti fork being made by Ti Fabrications. So having had a variety of bikes I still go back to Pinion and Rohloff for all the advantages they provide for me. The main reason I have gone Pinion over Rohloff for my bike is the fact I can have multiple wheels for different purposes and it only takes a couple of minutes to do and with a belt it is a very clean process. My partner only uses her bike for general riding and holidays so she has no need to change wheels to go mountain biking etc.
The Co Motions are lovely bikes. I first came across them when I was in the US and I rode from Vancouver to Mexico. I went into a bike shop and I was like WOW these are sexy bikes. If you using it for touring and commuting then you will be over the moon with the bike.
Really like your channel.
What would you recommend for a rider who is who is over 120kg not including multi-week bike packing gear? For example the great divide mountain bike route?
I really want Pinion but their weight makes me hesitant. Would Rohloff be a better option for heavier rider’s?
Thanks
Many thanks for your interest. Let me have a day to think about this so I can give you a considered response. Interesting question!
Hi again sorry for the delay I have just been trying to find information out. You are correct with the weight limit for Pinion I could not find any similar information for the Rohloff. The Rohloff does have torque limits though that you can stay within with gear choices. It would appear that Pinion may not serve you if they are strict about this. I would have a word with them and see what they say. They are normally quick to respond. If going the Rohloff route you still need to make sure you are getting the right frame. With rider weight and then bikepacking touring bags on top you need something to take the weight without flexing where you don’t want it to flex. I read that Specialzed Carbon bikes have a weight limit of around 113kg. Link here
isolatecyclist.bostonbiker.org/2011/09/26/bicycle-weight-limits/
If this is similar to other carbon manufacturers then rather than be on the limit it might be best to think about a metal bike, aluminium, steel, Ti. The good thing is these bikes can be just as light as carbon, but I am imagining that a really light is not what you are after. Surly say they are happy with a rider weight limit of around 130kg.
surlybikes.com/info_hole/faq
Brands like Salsa say they don’t have a rider weight limit but recommend choosing the right bike for the rider and person.
Trek have a weight limit of around 124kg according to my research.
Looking at the facts I would go with something steel or Ti and a Rohloff with correct gearing as to not cause problems. Rohloffs are a reliable sturdy bit of kit and the good thing is the frame can also be run with a derailleur when not on tour so you could have a lighter set up for local fun riding if you are limited to one bike.
The Surlys have special dropouts so it is really easy to fit a Rohloff and you have all the lugs for bags. Other brands that are good with Rohloff are
tumbleweed.cc
www.shandcycles.com
www.thorncycles.co.uk
www.pilotcycles.com
www.rennstahl-bikes.de/de/
www.falkenjagd-bikes.de/de/
tout-terrain.de
These are just some of the brands I would check out. There are absolutely loads of choice and if you are going for a custom made frame the world is your oyster. Really hope you get sorted out with the perfect machine. You will probably already be aware of Bikepacking.com. Their bike reviews are very useful!
I’m obsessed with the Pinion system. I’m a dedicated mountain bike rider, I’m not sure how it would perform on aggressive trails but I’d sure like to try it. I’d hate getting mistaken for an e-biker that would be embarrassing 😊
It performs far better than anything else available, unless having the lightest gear is your bag. But you will get mistaken for an ebike on every trip in the UK I am afraid cause we are so backwards 🤯
If you are in the UK try one out at Alpkit/Sonder
No I live near Washington DC by Dulles. I’ve only seen one “in the wild” on a Priority bike. If I had one I’d have to ride it with a “Friends don’t let Friends ride e-bikes” tshirt
You should get in touch with Geoff at Solace Cycles. They make a bikepacking ATB pinion bike but he is happy to do custom frames to suit suspension setups as well. Their price is very good for a Ti bike as well. Another option is nordest, Spanish firm I believe but some good options.
I have an IDWorx pinion and belt drive bike. It's bombproof. No oil or nasty cleaning. Mud is no issue. Just hose it down now and again.
They just work. All through winter. All through the year without giving them a second thought. It is nice going on a ride knowing you are not going to have any shifting issues. Sweeet.
The major downside with a gear box is that it's a new bike, geared hubs can be retro fitted, although if you have a thru axle bike your choices are limited.
I have ordered a kindernay 7 speed hub, I thought about the rohloff but it was more expensive and they needed the bike.
A nice hub. They seem to be making ground
I have a Priority 600. It has a Pinion 12 speed with a Gates carbon belt drive. I did a short 510 mile bike tour on it in October 2020. It was fantastic. I don't think I will ever buy another bike with a derailleur and chain. I am not mechanically inclined at all and I can just ride my bike with almost no worries.
Yeh that is the beauty of them. The Priority 600 and 600x seem to be building a good reputation. Most comments on my sites are from owners. I do know how to build bikes but it is also the space to maintain a bicycle that is required that also makes Pinion and Rohloff so compatible with my life. It is a shame that all marketing for bicycles is race driven with race tech that 99% of people on the planet don’t need and they miss out on the carefree simplicity of riding a bicycle like yourself. Have fun 👍🏽👌🏽🤞🏽
@@RidingBicycles A big problem here is people going to big box stores and buying mountain bikes to ride around town and not realizing the reason they are not enjoying it as much as they should is because of the bike they are on. Many people think all bikes are the same. It's a shame.
Yes that is so true. So many people just need a bike that is going to get them from a to b in comfort. They don’t need their head down and their ass up. Utility/commuting/touring bikes fit in to most people’s lives. But they get sold race machines. Hopefully through education and fact that utility bikes just look so damn cool will change that in the future :) 👍🏽
I did a great deal of research, then ordered a Priority 600. Initially, I did not want to spend that much money, but the 600 is fairly priced for what you get. The combination of belt drive and wide gear range sold me. It should arrive later this spring...I am excited. :-)
@@scotgill9975 I have ridden mine thousands of miles. I love it. It is by far the best bicycle I have ever owned. I feel like it is the future of cycling.
I agree with most of what you say. It is the time that internal hub gears save you in not having to maintain the bike. For many years riding a lot miles commuting approx 60 miles a day the constant maintenance of a derailleur gear system really got me down. If you ride every day in ALL weathers then they are a total PITA. This is why I bought a Rohloff hub and for me it has proved it's weight in gold. I now only have to really service the bike once a year not including the oil change or changes for the hub. It is virtually maintenance free. And I have saved a fortune not having to buy lots of replacement derailleur transmission parts and chains. As I say it has been a game changer for me before you even talk about the practical advantages of riding a Rohloff geared bike.
Like you I get stupid dumb questions from people who have read about one guy on the internet who fucked up their Rohloff hub because a) they didn't maintain it properly or they didn't how to you use it properly or b) they bought a shagged one second hand off Ebay, so because of this they think Rohloff is a bad internal hub gear. The real reason is that these halfwits fuck up their derailleur bikes as well, the sort of people who only get 150 miles to a chain! These people tend not to have any mechanical sympathy what so ever. The real reason they come up with such rubbish is that they cannot afford a Rohloff or just think it is too expensive so decide to rubbish instead despite it being a precision engineered very reliable internal hub gear. Rohloff stand by their product. I am sure that Mr Shimano would not do the same if they knackered their new 12 spd rear derailleur.
I just think derailleur gears are such primitive old technology. The materials have got better in the last 20 years so the individual components are lighter and stronger, but you still have what is an essentially a cheap open to the elements gear system which when you are cycling in anything other than warm dry weather is going to be a huge PITA to keep running smoothly. Like you I don't have a Pro team of mechanics either to keep my bikes nicely fettled.
But you're right Rohloff does have disadvantages such as weight of the hub, but in the grand scheme of what it can do, this quickly pales into insignificance. I think the hub is brilliant for every day cycling, commuting and touring. Yes it is slower than a light derailleur bike but to compare it with a race bike is totally missing the point. I have no experience of the Pinion gear box, but I know enough to realise that it is probably better then the Rohloff in that it is mounted in the middle of the bike meaning there is not so much weight in the rear wheel and improved weight distribution across the bike frame. Like the Rohloff it is going to be really well engineered and made.
I hang onto my derailleur bikes out of nostalgia more than anything. I might take them for a ride each year in the summer on a dry day if they are lucky. But a few years have passed since I rode some of them. I just dread having to clean and re-lube them if I encounter poor conditions or rain which puts me right off riding them.
IHG and belt drive bikes are the way to go for everyday and off road cycling. I wish we saw more of these bicycles in the UK.
Seems like we are peas from the same pod!
I don’t own a car and cycle everywhere. I built up all my bikes except the Pinion, so know how to maintain my bikes, but do I want to do that in the freezing rain outside once I get home from work cause I don’t have a garage. No I don’t!
I have got all my derailleur bikes on eBay at the moment. And in replace I have got two Pinion touring bikes for me and my partner. The gearbox bikes mean I only need two. A MTB for mountain rides and one road bike to use for commuting/touring/gravel basically everything else. They can be the same thing as like you say the commute is not going to require all the maintenance so I can also jump on it for a ride at the weekend knowing it is going to work the same every day!
Apparently Shimano have put a patent in for a gearbox in the bb area, but it misses the point as they want to make it light so they have a chain running in a bath of oil between two cassettes?! But instead of the chain moving between gears the cassette moves! These are parts that will need changing more often and I am sure the chain would stretch and what would you do then to rectify it? I think they might need to go back to the drawing board. One thing though is if they made it marketing would start promoting gearboxes and prompt people to do some proper research and buy the real thing ie Rohloff/Pinion. Bike shops have a responsibility too. I know Rohloff and Pinion are expensive, but for most people buying hybrids to nip to shops on short rides with family they could do a better job of promoting Alfine hubs with belts etc.
I am really down about modern life and how everyone just gets brainwashed by marketing! Who the hell needs electronic shifting? And more to the point who the hell, if they had their own mind would want one! I took 49 teenage students on tour doing the coast to coast they carried their own gear and cooked there own food. At one of the stops we saw a van with a group of riders that were doing the coast to coast, but had there gear transported by a company two of them were pulling out because there mech had stopped talking to the shifter!!! And that is in something as simple as the coast to coast... is that advancement, I think not 😂.
One of the main points of my channel is to promote the gearboxes, but also to show nice pics and videos, well hopefully they are nice for people to see 👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles You are preaching to the converted. Whether you have a garage or not after a shitty day at work and equally shitty long ride home you don't want to have clean and re-lube your bike ready for the next day only to have to do it the same when you get home in the darkness the next evening. Respect to you for maintaining all your bikes outside without a shed or garage. I have a garage but from time to time some of the bikes seem to make their way into the house mainly in winter if it's too cold in the garage. I am lucky that I have a garage. I do have a car, well two actually, but I have always commuted to and from work typically about 40 miles a day although for a few years when I didn't have a car it was 58 miles each day. Any journey less than 20 miles from home that I don't have to carry too much stuff I have always cycled, although I do have a BOB Yak trailer as well which I use from time to time as well as several full sets of Ortlieb panniers and no end of racks for my bikes. I wish I could be as principled as you without a car but to be truthful I still like the convenience of the car when I need to use it despite me actually using either of them very little indeed. One of the cars last year only did about 90 miles and the other about 1600 miles. Just costing me money sitting doing nothing!!! Yes I too should probably put my derailleur bikes on Ebay or FB and free up some garage space. Tis the time now I suppose, good bikes are in demand. Thanks for your reply. Keep up the good work.
BOB trailer. You are fully kitted out, I love it! I have always hung on websites with the buy button before every big tour we have done, but never took the plunge. We cycled back from Spain with our five year old in the summer holidays and I was looking at getting the biggest Surly trailer, cant remember if it is the Bill or Ted, I think it is Bill because it is the bigger word, I think I have read that somewhere. Anyway I was going to convert it to like a little den that the five year old could chill in that I dragged along. In the end we just used the tamden I had at the time and a kid trailer. I was hoping she would spend some time on the tandem, in the end it was 10 miles out of 1200. So it did look strange me cycling a tandem on my own for most of it :) and can I get her on a bicycle now, no way! Too busy with how she looks 😂
I would not feel bad having the cars, it seems you are committed to try and eliminate car use where ever possible and if everyone did that the planet would be in a better position. 👍🏽👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles I have had the Bob Yak about 3 years and used it seriously probably 3 times. It was an Ebay purchase. Like new had been used once. The guy who had bought it just fell out of love with cycling and left it at the villa he was staying at and flew home! The owners of the villa had brought it back from Spain to England and were flogging it. I think I got it for about £150 can't quite remember. I might have been even less. It has a really nice tough bag to store it in as well. You would have though it came with a nice bag to store it, but no. Yeah it was like new and still is. It can carry a lot of stuff in it, too much, but you certainly feel it pulling it up the hills. Even though they make the bike heavy I think I prefer a full set of panniers really than pulling a trailer. It is certainly at totally the opposite end of the luggage spectrum to bike packing. Respect to you taking your young kids bike touring as they were growing up. That must have taken some planning and courage. Shame that having got older they have other priorities. I wouldn't surprised if they return to cycling at some stage. The Surly trailers are probably very very heavy as most of their stuff seems to be. I have some of their racks and they are so heavy! Their front nice rack is like a heavy brick. Shame as it is one of the best front racks for expeditions. It's built like a tank. I think Burley do trailers as well but I don't know about their quality. In any case I think you are probably now past the trailer dilemma.
Yes I wish I could cut our the cars, but there is a small part of me that when I do use them quite enjoys it. I really need to reach a decision that the amount I spend on them each year just to make them legal is money well spent given I use them so little. My main travel is by bicycle(s). I think in your situation I would be looking any way I could for a shed or a garage or even a utility room at home, any where to store my bikes inside. The cold and damp can't be doing the IHGs internals any good. Then there are the brakes, bottom brackets, other hubs. You can get wooden or metal lockable box pod things to store bikes to at least get them out of the weather. Thanks for replying.
Hopefully she will appreciate the things she saw when she was I’m on the bicycle and return at some point. We have a small terrace house with a postage stamp yard, the kitchen or the office gets used as a last resort for maintenance but it means moving stuff around, we don’t have any other room that could be converted. The bikes as kept in one of those Asgard bike storage boxes outside so they are protected, but I would like to get some sort of heating in there. I could run a cable and stick in an oil filled rad, but I can only do that when most of the bikes have sold so there is room. All the bikes are crammed in with handles turned and pedals off plus a few in the cellar, which is no use for storage or maintenance as it is only just bigger than shoulder width wide. I will get there when I just have the three bikes my two and my partners. I am just waiting for two more to sell on eBay at the moment a Santa Cruz Talboy 3 premium carbon and a Titanium Bearclaw Thunderhawk. Both only about 2-3 months old with 20 miles in the clock. Amazing lovely bikes to ride but I just don’t want to ride them if I can’t keep them in ship shop shape. I can already feel a bit of anxiety lifting knowing they will be in the hands of someone who will ride them, but more the thought of when I go to the storage it is only one of two options I need to make, MTB ride or road/gravel. I had a Surly front rack too, the 24 pack or something like that, you are right. Heavy and also the fittings were twiddly and awkward to remove/install quickly.
When you say that your Rohloff is 15 minutes slower on a 7 mile ride compared to your friction shifting bike, how much do you think is due to upright flat bars, heavier frame, suspension fork, and wide heavy duty commuting tires with stiff cases?
I would say it is a combination of all of the above. The Rohloff bike is 16kg expedition bike made to survive a nuclear attack. The road bike is 10kg, lighter wheels I am sure on a like for like bike the difference would be a whole lot smaller. I Alee at cycling about has a TH-cam channel and website he does some really accurate and scientific comparisons and I think he has the difference to about 2 mins over 100 miles or something not worth worrying about. My commute is hilly as chuff I do Everest from sea to summit every five weeks so with a hilly commute like that the extra weight of the expedition bike makes a big difference.
www.cyclingabout.com
I tried for the first couple of years with my latest bike (I have only owned and ridden a single bike at a time)... to keep it clean and shiny all the time, immaculate. I obsessed over the chain to the point of cleaning it during rides. This is all while averaging over 7K miles a year, 20 to 120 mile rides year around. That means for me, living in the Pacific Northwest, 4 to 6 months of riding in the rain and on muddy wet surfaces. I have a Rohloff Speedhub mounted on a full-suspension touring bike coupled to a BBSHD mid-drive and it's amazing. It's broken me to ever owning another bike without a Rohloff. The mid-drive and the Speedhub are made for each other, they go together like lamb and tuna fish. th-cam.com/video/iOLaTxa0cm8/w-d-xo.html The 1st year I rode I changed the chain 8 times... whenever it got to 0.5% wear as tested with a Park tool. After another 25K miles and 4 years riding I now swap my chains every 6 months. Drop the chain, flip or replace the Rohloff gear, mount a new chain, and ride. Always having a straight chain line makes it amazingly easy to maintain.
11 Jul 19 - 71 miles w/front panniers & trailer on less than 15Ah... 1/2 the packs capacity.
www.relive.cc/view/g37290970278
photos.app.goo.gl/RD1NrDPCZQuHpWja9
Wow you were obsessed with bike maintenance! 😂 but that is how you have to be if you round Year round my friends don’t look after their bikes and they have problems all the time. Internal hubs and gearboxes work really well with mid drive and just keep everything solid.
Even the C1.12, while in some fundamental ways quite intriguing, with overpriced drop bar Cinch-modified TRP brake-shifter levers is still at least ca. 1.100 grams heavier than a SRAM Force eTap AXS 2x groupset and at least some 1250 grams heavier than a 1x SRAM eTap AXS mullet with an Easton CA90 crank.
Intriguing it certainly is, no question about that.
Yes the gearboxes are a little heavier, but the benefits of clean hassle free riding sway it for me in my circumstances 👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles Sure! No doubt the Pinion has own benefits over derailleur systems. Best to have both. 😉
hi got some question on how to change the belt in case for a hardtail bicycle? unlike the chain can be cut and link again
With a belt you just need to
1) Remove the wheel.
2) Unfasten the bolt at the rear triangle
3) Put the belt through the triangle over the cogs.
4) Fastern bolt at rear triangle
5) Put wheel back in.
Takes about the same time as a chain, but a whole lot cleaner :) 👍🏽
I think when people weigh over 200 lbs it becomes more important to not shift under load. I’m 165 and don’t have any problem with it. I think I intuitively pedal slightly less hard or while the pedals are at 12:00 and 6:00 positions rather than just as I’m mashing full power from 2:00 to 5:00.
Also people do lighten the pedals without thinking about with derailleur systems too otherwise the shifts would sound horrible and you would go around breaking chains all the time on climbs. 👍🏽
A very informative video about the various options from an experienced perspective. The say the Gates belt last 3x longer than a chain. Is that true for your kind of riding, and how do you know when to replace the belt?
The belt from my experience has not broken on me yet. When I know I would of been through a couple of chains. There are sites that claim to have done crazy amount of miles. Cycling About is a very informative and around the world tourer with a belt so he is the best place to know about miles, You can never tell when it would fail like you can’t with a chain, what I always do is carry a spare as they are light and easy to carry. You can tell when they are worn by looking at the general condition.
I saw that Gates recommended replacing the cogs at the same time as the belt, but I assume that would be when both the belt and the cog have obvious visual wear; the belt gets thinner ribs, and the individual cogs become ovalized. This must take a lot more miles than 3x what a chain can do. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Are you thinking of getting a belt drive? The main benefits are no maintenance, just hose down the bike when dirty, still run perfectly when going off road with mud everywhere. Plus the amount of time they last. Would you pair with a Rohloff or Pinion gearbox?
Someday I will need another bike, so I'm interested in getting one with the belt system.
I have a 1983 Stumpjumper and parts are getting harder to find, it's got about 150,000 miles on it. Only the handlebars, friction shift levers and brake levers are still original from the day I bought it. Again, thanks for sharing your experience.
I am on a 1990 Rockhopper doing a two week tour of Wales at the moment! 👍🏽 photos on my social media, a video will come when I get home 👌🏽
Thanks for the review. I'm curious, what specifically makes you prefer Pinion over Rohloff? I'm considering both at the moment.
Both really good. But if you don’t mind the specific frame and it looking like an ebike the Pinion for me is better as it has the weight in the middle!
@@RidingBicycles How about the feeling of drag in the Pinion vs the Rohloff? I see conflicting statements on that online. Some say Rohloff is more efficient while other say Pinion is the one that has less drag in real world usage. I haven't tried them yet, only tried Enviolo and didn't like that compared to regular derailleur. A derailleur feels much faster in comparison, so I'm curious if Pinion and Rohloff are better than Enviolo in terms of drag, and how they compare to eachother also in that respect.
If you read the science experiments it will say that a mech chain is the best efficacy if it is clean but then it becomes the worst when it is dirty. Forgetting about the gearbox system for a moment. I have not noticed a difference in effort from a clean to a dirty chain. Might make a lot of noice but you feel the effort the same. My point here is that they are talking small differences that you might not be able to detect. As a rider I do not get any “sensation” of drag with a Pinion, but I hated the “sensation” of drag with the Rohloff. I don’t know if it is because the Pinion is completely silent in every gear and the Rohloff does make noise depending on which gear you are in or if it is because the rotation mass of the Rohloff feels slower. So in my eyes I don’t detent drag with the Pinion, but I did with the Rohloff. If it is something that concerns you I would definitely have a test ride before buying as I can tell from forums in the topic a gearbox system is either love or hate👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles Thanks, that confirms what the Nomad Trails channel said after testing both on a long tour.
I wasn't sure because another TH-camr, cyclingabout, is using Rohloff, but I guess that's because he's sponsored by Koga which uses Rohloff. According to him Rohloff is more efficient, but he doesn't seem to be talking from experience, just going off of spec sheets.
I'll probably spend some extra to get a Pinion based bike then, after test riding first of course. Cheers.
Yes I have spent years pouring over all the websites/channels trying to find the ultimate bike for “my” purposes. But at the end of the day it is your own experience and perception that matters. Good thing thing trying them all out though ✌🏽👍🏽
I just planning conversion of my old carbon steel bianchi city bike, (which it is 18 years old.) to touring bike. I love friction shifter cheapness, compatibility and minimalism. I didn't decide 8 or 9 speed. I am not unsure. 8 speed gears anywhere include in villages. I live in Turkey. 9 drive train more expensive in my country. but ı also think 9 speed 8 speed mixing these times. Friction is best option my situation isn't it? But i have questions that friction all old 80s 90s 00s friction shifter can afford to 9 speed cassette? That cable pull is my concern? example please give me some advice, is that okey?
urun.n11.com/bisiklet-yedek-parca/bisiklet-yaris-vites-kolu-ciftli-klasik-P405251040
Hi, if you use friction shifters you can use any cassette as cable pull is not an issue. With 8-10 speed you can use the standard shifters like dis compe or similar. On my road bike I use an 11sp with friction shifters so I needed to get the dia compe 11sp version which work with 8-11 so so you can use what ever cassette or derailiur you want 👍
Not mentioned? £SD? How much is that lower maintenance worth to you / us?
That is difficult to say as it depends how much maintenance you do yourself, how you ride, you where you ride, how long you leave between maintenance sessions. As I ride everyday day as I don’t have a car it is a practical thing for me. I don’t have any indoor or undercover space to clean and maintain. In winter it would be good to spend an hour each time I get home to clean and lube. So how much is maintenance worth to me? I would say it probably saves me time. Maybe six hours a week in winter and a couple of hours saved a week in summer.
I'm looking into buying a gravel bike and I'm really intrigued by Pinion and Rohloff. Which one would you recommend for a gravel bike? You seem to prefer the Pinion over the Rohloff.
Hi, the P18. Gearbox gives gives you more range and the steps between the gears are not as big. The P12 gives you a bigger range than the Rohlofff but the steps will be bigger. The Pinions are slightly heavier. I really like the Rohloffs for adventure touring but if you are mountain biking I would go for the Pinion as the weight is in the middle. The good thing about the Rohloff is you can run it on nearly every frame and you can also use a derailleur if you wanted to eg if you knew you were not going touring for a few month and did not kind swapping everything about. I really love the history and looks of the Rohloff compared to having the big box in the middle like on a Pinion that looks like an ebike. I love both systems, for a touring bike I would go Rohloff for a bike that is going to be bashing around on singletrack type routes I would go Pinion. I would definitely take both systems out for a test ride before committing your cash. Oh in certain gears there can be a whirring sound on the Rohloff the Pinion is very quiet.
@@RidingBicycles Thank you so much for your quick and detailed answer! I want to use the bike for some light gravel riding, commuting and occasional longer distance tours. Definitely will check out both gearboxes. :)
Hi no problem. I just reread my reply and I forgot to put the “not” towards the end. The sentence should have said “ I would use a Rohloff if the bike is ‘not’ going to be bashing around on singletrack type stuff. But I think you might of understood what I meant from the rest of the message. I have a Salsa Fargo at the moment and when I have saved up I am converting that to Rohloff with belt.
Oh I did forget another thing in the favour of Pinion. It is a lot cheaper to have multiple wheelsets and swap them over very easily. Eg you might have a wheelset for commuting with skinny tyres a 29er wheelset that you sometimes swap for a 27.5+ etc. You can’t do that with a Rohloff as you would need multiple Rohloff hubs which would be very expensive. The hub on a Pinion system is just a single speed hub so it makes the cost of rear wheels a lot cheaper in comparison.
Man I want a tout terrain super bad, loved the reviews btw. But, they are a little tough to get into Canada, only two dealers in the entire country and that import tax is killer...
Yes, now we have left the Europe with the whole Brexit thing we also have to pay the import tax. But I don’t know what you pay to import to Canada as the price for me works out the same. I buy them through their website without the German tax which is about 20% and then the UK charge me 20% so no real difference for me. Don’t want to make you feel bad but I have two Tout Terrain Scramblers arriving in the next couple of weeks. I will make sure I do a comparison between them, the Silkroad and the Outback for you 👍🏽 Hope you find a way to get hold of one. Maybe arrange a tour of Europe when we are allowed to travel. Pick it up at the start, do the tour and fly back with it. I have done that before ✌🏽
@@RidingBicycles I was looking into that but aren't you still required to pay the tax when you head back as they usually will get you in customs? Personally, I haven't been to Europe so I'm honestly not too familiar with it. All I do know though is that it will cost me an addition $1300 Canadian approx. in order to import it. Nice, honestly a little jelly but looking forward to the comparison.
It sounds like you would get the bike about the same as me! I would pay for the bike to Tout Terrain without tax and then pay 20% import duty fees to the uk government. Which on the £4000 Scramblers works out at about £800. So doing a CAD to GBP conversion your 1300 CAD works out at about £762 GBP. So very similar. And it would be a similar price you would pay if you lived in Germany as they pay 20% tax too on their currency the euro. So in the end they all work out very similar.
As regards to doing a tour in Europe and flying back I suppose it matters how dirty it is at the end of the trip 😂
Pinion is excellent but heavy riders should remind it supports a max rider wight of 110 kg incl. clothes and rucksack.
Valuable information
Have you tried the Kindernay 14 speed?
Hi, no I have not, they do look appealing and the added benefit you can have multiple wheels set up and you just swap the hub instead of having multiple wheels built up with an expensive hub in each one. As with all
These technologies you need to factor In availability of spares and repair dealers. There does seem to be a push in alternative drivetrains at the moment.
What bout kindernay? Have u heard/tried em'?
I have not heard of them but will check them out.
how does lightest gear on pinion feels when climbing compare to sram's 50t or 52t? which system is better?
It can be as easy as you want it to be as you just change the size of the front and rear cogs to the type of terrain you are riding on. It a fairly standard 30/32t configuration it will be just as if not easier that a derailleur. The very special thing about them is the massive range of 630% in the p18 which means you have the hard gears as well. Basically you have a massive range and you decide where you want it to be. Just like with a 1x12 you have a 500% range and you decide where you want that range to be with the size of the front cog and the cassette. The easiest gears on a pinion gearbox can be made easier than the a derailleur and with the range you don’t sacrifice as many of your harder gears that you would with a derailleur. Your question about better depends on what you want. If you want light as you can racing system then derailleur is better. If you want a system that you don’t need to maintain/oil/clean, don’t get oil on your clothes and hands, you dont need to worry about sand, dirt, salt in a belt. You don’t need to worry about setting gears or catching your rear derailleur then the Pinion/Rohloff is better. But you sacrifice a little bit of weight.
hmm... interesting. well i don't race and not a weight weeny, I find my Front 32t Rear 52t comfy on flat climbs but on those rocky climbs my derailleur is high-fiving those rocks on climbs and I bent 2 derailleur hangers last year. what chainring + sprocket combo can you suggest that might have same / easier feel - I like crawling speed when climbing :D
Yeh sounds like you would like a Pinion. A 32/32 would be good.
I wonder, given the substantial cost of the Pinion system and associated custom frame (that may be difficult to sell on the used market) what the risk of Pinion simply going out of business over the next 20-30 years that I hopefully plan to use it, at which point the Pinion could fail and I'd be empty handed.
Yes you have that risk with any company really. People probably thought that about Rohloff when they started in the 80’s and they are still going strong. In fact the age of the ebike works in their favour as the motor works better with the robustness of a gearbox or gear hub instead of flimsy chain and derailleurs that are put under extreme torque. Good Pinion bikes start off at between £2000 - £3000. And you are right you can’t really sell a gearbox on its own or a frame built for gearbox on its own without the gearbox. This is because you mainly but the bike new with gearbox and you can’t buy them directly from Pinion. Companies are now starting to sell frames on their own without gearboxes fitted and if you have a word through a dealer you can now get the gearboxes, so I think the secondhand market will change. Pinion have been going for a good few years so I think they are just going to go from strength to strength, but if it is a big concern then you could look into Rohloff as you would also use the frame with derailleurs. At the end of the day the big players Shimano and SRAM are changing standards all the time that have no real benefits for normal cyclists, so matter which system you use there is a chance that most/some/all will be out of date hard to purchase in the future. Eg now if you want to keep using a triple, Shimano or SRAM don’t make them anymore so you are left look at smaller higher priced companies to supply, this does not bother me though as the quality and looks are a lot nicer than Shimano and sram could make. This is because I love the clean look of just plain metal even nicer when it is chrome 👍🏽
Great video thanks for sharing, I need advice about shimano alfine 8 speed gears if you can help.
I have only done 2000 miles from new and the gears slip when torque is put on, I have tuned the gears to the yellow dots and they do work except when I push,
Hi, I have never used or installed a Shimano internal hub. But a quick search brought this back, but I think you will of already read it if you have been researching. Sorry I could not of been of more help. I have just never used one yet.
***********************************************
Alfine owner here whose hub is slipping after having changed gear. The Alfine is extremely susceptible to misalignment in the setup. There are two sets of yellow markers that need to be aligned. One can be adjusted using the gear barrel adjuster.
aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/02/01/a-simple-guide-to-adjusting-a-shimano-nexus-hub-gear/
The other needs to be adjusted when the hub is set up. Sheldon Brown's extremely helpful web site indicates how you can achieve this.
www.sheldonbrown.com/nexus-mech.html
You will also need to tension the belt to the appropriate tension as mentioned in my comment and here:
www.montaguebikes.com/folding-bikes-blog/2016/03/adjusting-belt-tension-with-eccentric-bb/
Finally, the gear cable must be well greased as any stickiness will cause the gears not to drop in properly and skip/crunch etc. Unfortunately, I'm now of the opinion that the gear cable needs greased every 3-6 months, which is not the level of servicing I'd envisaged when purchasing! That said, it's still easier than replacing entire chain sets.
The sheldon brown link might be your best bet. That site knows their stuff 👍🏽
@@RidingBicycles Thank you for getting back so quickly, My first time buying hub gears and Im beat
on how to fix it, Im age 60 cycled all my life and never have put my bikes into the shop.
If I could buy a pinion gear bike on cycle to work scheme I would but cant find one like the priority 600
Keep up the good work and your bike collection is amazing..
I will keep a look out for Pinion gear bike similar to the Priority 600 that you can get in the UK. Tout Terrain have lots of bikes like that but I think they have stopped UK dealers and buy online now. They used to deal through a bike shop in Iron Bridge one in London and one in Scotland. The Scotland bike shop might still deal with them. They deliver all over the UK.
www.kinetics-online.co.uk
BTW Rohloff hubs are also amazing and you can find lots of bikes with Rohloff in the UK. Thorn bikes are very good quality, you can get them through SJS Cycles. Surly bikes can be built up with Rohloff too. Keep Pedalling in Manchester are good with Rohloff/Surly/Dynamo builds.
You dont have high enough gearing to speed with the fast bikes with a pinion??? What about changing the belt cogs, chainring bigger and rear cog smaller...
The style of bike would mean I don’t speed with fast bikes. This is a heavy duty expedition touring machine. Perfect for fully loaded off road tours, speedy is not a strong point of this setup.
Hi sir , very interesting video
Why arent there any city commuting bikes with a pinion gear box?
There are loads. Have a look at Nua, Tout Terrain, Pilot, rennstahl-bikes, basically nearly every brand that does Pinion will have a commuting bike in their range. Have a look at the list of brands on the pinion site there are hundreds of brands that now use Pinion.
@@RidingBicycles thanks. I'll check it out today
Hi can you recommend to me a Rohloff bike xc style
Hi I sure can once I know exactly the purpose of the bicycle. Are you wanting any suspension etc. If you are wanting fully rigid mountain bikes the you can start with having a look at the Surly ECR. Their dropouts are designed to take Rohloffs. In the same spirit is the Tumbleweed which is a beautiful bike.
surlybikes.com/bikes/ecr
www.tumbleweed.cc
Let me know if this is the kinda thing you were thinking of and I will share some more ideas.
thanks . can you also recommend me some entry-level pinions?
Yep Priority 600x 👍🏽
The Pinion C1.12 is 1.5 pounds lighter than the P1.18, but the later has closer gear spacing. You did picked the C1.12 for being lighter, but wouldn't the P1.18 be faster with the tighter gear steps despite the small weight penalty?
I have a P.18 on my MTB bike and another on my touring bike. The C.12 is the only version compatible with the Cinq dropbar shifters. But since Surly released their corner bar (a dropbar that takes flat bar fittings) I would use that with a twist shift.
@@RidingBicycles Nice. Do you think the P1.18 is faster than the C1.12 because of the tighter gear spacing?
In my humble opinion, I would not say faster but I have a really bad right knee no cartilage and most of the time I am in discomfort with it, so if I can make smaller increments to find a nice cadence it is always a good thing. The gaps between the gears in the C.12 do not feel massive at all and you still have a massive 600% range to get you up AND down the steepest, but in my situation I like the smaller jumps. The P.18 is a sturdier build to put up with expedition riding. The C. range is being used on more mountain bikes and gravel bikes. Do it depends on how burly you want your bike. If you want light and fast, I would say C.12 if you don’t have big problems with a knee like mine. If you are going to be doing heavy loaded off road touring, then definitely the P.18 👍🏽
Very informative video, I appreciate it. Especially you easy reveal the myths about marketing pumped expensive index shifters 🙂.
I've got 2 Pinion bikes: C1.12 and P1.18 tourers. The latter one is about 0, 5 kg heavier. According to Alee from Cyclingabout this half of kg surplus of P1.18 is worthy. You would choose C1.12 in your ideal bike though. Why not P1.18?
Regards from Ciechocinek, Poland.
Hello, many thanks. I have a C.12 coming on a Tout Terrain Scrambler at the end of may. I would always choose the p.18, but they did not have it as an option on that bike. Stay safe and happy travels :)
Hej Radek gdzie kupiłeś rower z Pinionem P.18? Jaki to rower... w PL trudno coś takiego dostać.
@@romekKR
W Polsce, czasam przyjedzie coś z Europy, trzeba polować :-).
@@romekKR ja zamówiłem tutaj tout-terrain.de/
Just curious on your thoughts between the belt drive and the chain. How do you find it?
Thorn bikes don't like the belts and have a long article in there guide about the potential issues. Im looking for a plus size expedition type bike with rohloff but not sure about the belt or chain. Any help would be great. Ta
Hi, I originally had a chain on my Surly Ogre with a Rohloff , then I got a Pinion gearbox with a belt on a Pilot Vamos. Then the Tout Terrain Silkroads which I built up with Rohloff and chain, next purchase was a Tout Terrain Outback with Pinion and belt, then converted the Silkroad from chain to belt. So I have had experience with the lot :)
There is nothing wrong with running a chain and I read that people say a chain is better as you can find them all over the world etc. Belts are meant to last 1000’s of miles so if you carry a spare, which are light that negates that issue. I have heard that belts can squeak a bit it really really dry conditions. I have not experienced that but apparently you can just spray some water on or use a wax if it is really dry. The belt does not stretch which is excellent as once it is set you just leave it. Everybody has a different view point and it depends what type of ride you are doing I suppose. I think I am converted to belt for the simplicity, reliability and the fact they are clean. Even with a Rohloff if you are using a chain you need to make sure you take care of it like normal especially if you are riding through winter. Plus even if you are neat with the oil and wipe off the surplus it still migrated to places you don’t want it, chainstays and little nooks and crannies around the hub etc. With the belt I just hose down after a ride and forget about it and it is ready to do straight away the next day, no fuss. For these reasons I am converted to a belt. If you have not seen the cyclingabout youTube channel is a great resource for all touring with belt and Rohloff and the guy has been touring non stop for years and years and he loves um too.
Hope this helps and good luck with your decision 👍🏽
But make sure the frame you use is certified for belt as they have a stronger rear triangle and it will need to split :)
@@RidingBicycles Thanks so much for the speedy reply.
One of my shortlist bikes is the Surly ogre or ecr. How did you find yours??
You seem taken with the tout terrains, any reasons? They seem good bikes. I like the idea of a plus size tyre for long distance comfort so this limits the choices and all the bikes I am looking at aren't even available for some time, with Covid/Brexit etc. So plenty of time to do more research:0)
No worries, the Tout Terrains just have little features that make touring on and off road for us perfect. The fact that they can take a belt or chain. Have side stand mounts on the chainstay the steering lock etc. The 26” Silkroads were fine with really knobbly 2.3 inch wide tyres with normal fenders at the same time which was ace. They now do a 650b Silkroad. I have an order for the Tout Terrain Scrambler that will be with me start of June a drop bar tourer. The Outback is a brill 29er. The Ogre was a really good bike. You won’t be able to run a belt on a Surly though. If your rides will take in stretches of road it will probably be the better choice over the ECR as that is more mtb focused. I will give you a link of belt drive makers. :) By the way check out the Pinion Belt Solace cycles.
solacecycles.com/bikes/om-2p
They can have one with you in 6 weeks. The price of Ti bikes are amazing from these guys and they know their stuff, I was in email communication with them and I don’t think it will be long before Intake the plunge :)
www.cyclingabout.com/belt-drive-touring-bike-manufacturers/
And Pinion bike makers
pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/
@@RidingBicycles Thanks again for the great reply.
Some great links to look into.
To much Choice can be a minefield. But hopefully will find something soon.
Good luck with your new bike. It's sounds fantastic. Looking forward to an upcoming video.
Take care and hopefully the world will start to open up again soon for future adventures.🖒😊🚲
Dude, what are going to do with all those bikes? That's way too many. Let me hold four of them for you 🤣.
😜 I have got rid of a couple the Santa Cruz Talboy and the Bearclaw Thunderhawk but I have two new Tout Tout Scramblers arriving end of May/start of June……. I don’t own a car and they are my transport, my hobby and since not drinking from Jan my only bloody vice at the moment 😝
Haven't you been taught then that the ideal number of bicycles is always n+1? ;)
Yep you should of seen how many I had two years ago. I had to hire storage just for the bikes. It was crazy!
15 minutes longer on 7 miles with the rohloff, how come??
Heavy touring/mtb bike instead of a road bike on a very hilly commute which is Everest every 20 work days.
@@RidingBicycles I don't understand what you mean?
@@DUCzillaMonster The rohloff is on a heavier off road touring bike. An off road touring bike is always going to be slower on steep up hill tarmac roads than the light road bike I am comparing it to.
@@RidingBicycles ok, just about the weight of the hub, i should see, its the hub against my 3 to 7 derailleur setting now, not that much of a difference in guess, belt driven
@DUCzillaMonster When you take into account the weight of the front and rear mech and the the cassette and chain you might be taking the Rohloff is 400 to 500 grams heavier.
Check this article out for the facts about Rohloff and Pinion.
www.cyclingabout.com/weight-difference-between-derailleur-pinion-rohloff-bikes/
Sadly, with pinion, you can not change out the gearbox with the new MGU...I think that's a big mistake, for everyone...
I think the Effigear gearbox uses the same mount.
Look I ride to work nearly every day and most people are good but I have found the odd one that don't like bike riders that's just the way it is! Maybe they had a bad experience with a rider let's face it some riders can be aggressive too.
I find the new breed of Lycra glad warriors the worst
Thanks. Just goes to show, if you need to think something through, go and sit in the woods.
There is no best gearbox, only the one you prefer.
With all those bikes, you must be single.
😂😂 no but I am in the process of selling a few and not buying anymore. Retirement is looming, it is time to start getting serious with plans in place. 😂
8:18 Yanks...