Why Did my Gates Carbon Belt Fail? +Tips to Prevent a Future Break
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2021
- I broke the unbreakable! I've been riding bikes with the Gates Carbon Drive for about 4 years, and I've never had an issue...until I snapped one in half while riding the GDMBR in New Mexico. Turns out, it was my fault. Dave, founder of Priority Bicycles, explains how to prevent this in the future.
Gates Owners Manual: www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/me...
Gates iPhone tensioner app:apps.apple.com/us/app/bicycle...
Gates Android app:play.google.com/store/apps/de...
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As an engineer, this video is priceless. Failure analysis videos ftw. RTFM.
Glad you enjoyed this!
@@duzer I also liked the candid transparent response from the vendor. Good stuff.
As an engineer the main problem for that belt is the gearing with this pinion transmisson. Means, the rear sprocket is much too small and the forces on that belt is fare to high. There are some solution for this problem:
1. Dont buy a bike with belt drive
2. The rear spocket has to be at least double the size to the todays one, what also means, the pinion gear box needs another transmission.
3. Replace the pinion with a Rholoff gearbox and keep the belt, because here is the transmission in the rearwheel, so the force on the belt is much lower.
@@marcelhunziker7840 It's true that the crank gearbox (Pinion) puts way more stress on the belt in low/climbing gears, but it's still generally rare for a belt to break so it's not like the system doesn't work. Longer term, however, I imagine that the sprockets and belt life will be a bit shorter on a Pinion setup that does a lot of climbing.
Anyway, it's a tradeoff. IGH (Rolhoff/Shimano) hubs have less belt stress, but also bias more weight toward the rear of the bike, require a torque arm, and generally make rear wheel removal a bit more complicated.
@@marcelhunziker7840 Im an engineer also. I turned my trek rig into a belt drive and it lasted like 10 miles at 55hz. The next belt lasted 20 miles at 55hz. Belts are great but chains are just better in terms of catastrophic failure.
"He who carries not a replacement belt drive, invites upon himself from the universe an untimely Whammy."
- Confucius
Haha!! Love this
🤣🤣💗👏
As a Priority bike owner I can honestly say that EVERY interaction I've had with either Dave (yes, he responds to people personally) or other support staff is like this - they are incredibly responsive, patient, and solutions-based.
The team at Priority is very impressive! Glad you’re living your bike
Concur...Nelson there continues to shine as well
Yep, I can second that, I am still getting used to quick response time for all inquiries I had so far.
full respect to Priority Bikes for standing by their product, taking the time to ask questions & determine cause of break and offering this level support. A master class & customer service 101.
It's comforting to know that I am not the only cocky guy who doesn't always read the directions as thoroughly as I should.
When I rode from Cali to Colorado in 79 on a Peugeot UO8 (which I bought for $149 with a free $20 football at Copeland Sports while going to college) across the Nevada Desert on Hwy 6 from Mammoth to Ely (through Tonopah), then up 93 to Idaho (then down to Avon, Colo) I had a spare tube and that was it (plus a patch kit). My water was a Bolsa bag I bought years earlier plus a couple water bottles. My tires were not new (well, they were new when I bought the bike). The night before I got to Ely I camped out in the desert (typical) and then in the morning rode through Ely. When I was about a mile out of Ely headed north on 93 my rear tire blew out! Never had that happen before. I walked back into Ely and stopped at a Montgomery Wards mail order store and they didn't have a tire (could get one in about 2 weeks). They said to try the Pep Boys store in the middle of town. I go in to the store and ask if they have a 27" road bike tire. The guy wasnt sure but he goes in the back and takes this long stick with a hook on the end and starts taking knobby tires for Sting Rays (kids bikes) off the rack about 15' up on the wall. In the back of the knobbys was a single 27" road bike tire (probably older than I was). I put it on my bike and was on my way up 93 to Ketchum (which I reached about 5 days later). The thought briefly crossed my mind about what the consequences might have been if this happened in the middle of the desert (where I was lucky to see a car go by due to the truckers strike at the time). When I got up to Idaho I met a couple riders doing the Centennial Route and we rode together for a couple days. They told me to keep a section of tire (about 3-5 inches long) for cases like that to at least let you limp into a town big enough to find a tire. I think I am smarter than that now (but my wife disagrees).
As a gates carbon drive user , this served as a reminder !
Okay, I'm buying my spare belt. Doubt I'll ever need it but lesson learned. FYI, riding my 600 for two months now, 500 miles in - the best bike I ever owned.
Enclosed shaft drive, it's the only sensible solution. lol
Right on!! Happy trails buddy
Yes - buy a spare!
And, this video is VERY informative!!!!
Strangely enough, this video and the previous video where your belt broke, sealed the deal for me getting one of these bikes. Now I wish I didn't have to wait so long.
The wait is absolutely worth it. I ordered my 600X in November and got it the first of April. It has been a ball ever since. I did some upgrades to it. The last was to lace in 35mm rims and install 3 inch tires. Lovin it so far. I know this bike is spec'd out for 2.8 inch tires but they are so uncommon and expensive. I can get 2.6 or 3.0's anywhere, so I took the chance and the WTB Ranger 3.0's work like a dream. I used the same rims as well: WTB KOM Tough in the wider size. Enjoy your bike (and carry a spare belt). By the way, the guys at priority let me know the spokes on this bike are Sapim 2x290 J bend. I bought a couple in case I needed them on the new rims and to carry a spare.
I don’t have the 600x, but I do have two bikes with the belt drive. I just got one, this year. I’ve had the other bike for six years, now. I haven’t had any issues with the belts, so far. They are nice. I don’t think I will go back to riding a bike with a regular chain, for the foreseeable future.
@@Murderbot2000 Love my belt drive. No lube or cleaning. No black on pant leg. The only thing I do is wash the belt with water fairly often to get rid of the dusty squeaking sounds.
@@swnorcraft7971 awesome upgrades!!
*Do not roll on belt* “whoops. Haha”
Classic man. Solid video that helps breaks it down. Dave explained everything super clearly while assuming the most positive intent!
… guess I should download that gates app now, haha.
As bad as I feel for the Duzer, this episode exposes a natural human tendency: that which works flawlessly receives the least attention. I am guilty of this myself-how many times have I put off an oil change, replacing my bike chain, or changing my disc brake pads? Often these things must start wreaking havoc before I address them, which could happen in the backcountry. I also share the common male trait of tossing aside the Owner’s Manual as soon as any new contraption is built and functioning. I have learned a few hard lessons myself-very helpful to learn this one from the comfort of my sofa!
As someone who is looking forward to getting his first bike with a carbon fiber belt & pinion gear box, this video was very educational! 👍🏼
This is the first I've heard of this configuration in a bicycle! Every day's a school day!
Military adage...
One is none, Two is one...
Spares... ALWAYS SPARES...!!
Tires, tubes, tools, food...
Never JUST enough...
Lessons learned, and thanks for sharing...
Some people live and learn, I just live ;)
I really enjoy your adventures and the videos about them, but I have to say this is my favorite video of yours out of all the ones I’ve watched.
It also puts a Priority Bicycle at the top of my list.
I really like the conversational format of this video! Some great questions and answers here
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
I'm no engineer but I'd say the belt broke because Duzer has Popeye legs and he has been overdosing on cans of refried beans.
Bean Popeye - that will be his trail nickname
Spinachs!!!
Lmao
So the toxic chemicals from his farts finally ate away at the belt?
Yes......it failed because he is Superman😆
I'm also going to say. remember about boiled eggs and pre-cooked rice. Both excellent additions to your en-route diet. Boiled eggs would make your breakfasts so much better. Another cheap fix, bake yourself some nice, sweet oatmeal cookies/bars (maybe Mom or Dana could do it?) with lots of fruit inside. Eat those instead of trail bars. Much better for the environment, gives you what those bars do, MUCH cheaper, much more healthy for you, not filled with crazy chemicals/preservatives. Keep being awesome!
Hi Ryan, great to hear your trials, I just assembled my new, today, L-train, so was looking at my new belt while watching. It's great to see you so upbeat, and loving the life, "on the trail" has just been a refreshing adventure, thanks for sharing.
As a soon to be owner of a bike with a gates belt, thanks for sharing this. It was really informative to hear Dave walk through the analysis.
My family and I are following your adventures Ryan! We were waiting with anticipation to see what the whammy was gonna be! We got so concerned about you being stranded out there, but somehow you always find decent people to help you! This is the best tv!! We have two priority bikes! Great advice here!
Thank you very much for this video. I’m on the GDMBR right now with a Gates Belt drive and this video just might save me from a break.
All the explanation from Priority makes perfect sense. I understood better the way the belt is built and yes, using the app before a big trip is a must. Great info as usual, happy and safe rides. : )
600X on order and now I know a lot more about the Gates belt and proper care. Thanks!
So thankful to you Duzer. Now I fully understand what it means "...If you have one it means you have none..." This is by far the most learning real life video experience. We all cheered for you. Go Ryan. Go.
Duzer, thanks so much for posting about this issue and, especially, how to tension the belt. I have a Priority Embark thanks to you and your Mom and I tested the belt tension today. It's definitely loose. So, thanks again for this info, man!
You got it!! Happy trails
Even though you broke your belt during this adventure, the advantages you showed it to have over a 'normal' chain really inspired me. So, when for my daily commute I recently bought my SpeedPedelec (Stromer ST2) I made sure to pick the version with a belt drive. I absolutely love it! Thanks for your helpful and inspiring videos!
Super interesting - I love how he was able to watch all the videos and diagnosis the likely culprit
Bad diagnosis as fare, it's a high tension problem with the pinion gearbox!
Sorry to see you shut on account of the broken belt, Ryan. Thank you so much for sharing the diagnosis and troubleshooting of what caused your problem. I have carried a spare belt with my 600X from the start. I have always carried a spare chain on my other bikes as well. I have yet to need any of them. Like a fire extinguisher: better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. One of the many great things about the Gates system is how little the spare belt weighs. Really enjoy your bikepacking adventures! Thanks for sharing.
Nothing better than someone giving you the facts behind a situation without beating around the bush. Thanks man
Facts, what kind of facts? The main promblem is the pinion, what gives such a high trainfocre on that tiny belt. And because of this, little stones are pressed into the belt.
I totally agree with Dave when he says one of the things he loves about your videos is your consistent "glass very half full" attitude. That attitude is such a gift, isn't it?
Ryan, this is by far one of your best videos, both in content, story telling, and production. I commuted to work almost everyday for 33 years, and have had my share of bike problems/issues. I have broken chains, had rims blow out, had frames crack, welds break, bearings break, derailers break off, cables snap, brakes fail, you get the idea. This video addressed a lot of concerns I have about the belt drive system, I am now sold on it. When matched up with a pinion gear box I think it is a nearly bomb proof drive system. Thankyou, and have a whammy free day.
😃
Thanks, Peter! What an impressive run of bike commuting!! Hope you someday get your own Pinion/Gates setup
My worst chain brake occurred on a flat section of road after a nice downhill section, probably averaging about 50 KPH, keeping up with traffic. Pedalling in top gear my chain broke, the chain then wrapped itself around my derailleur, jammed against the wheel and ripped off the derailer, Then it locked up my rear wheel, the whole bike coming to a screeching halt punctuated by a loud bang as the tire wore right through. This was also the most expensive bike (to me) I had ever purchased, and it was just over a year old (no warrantee). I have been dreaming of something better ever since, thanks for opening my eyes, and yes, shopping online as we speak.
great work by priority and customer analyzing the failure
This was a great video, thanks for sharing your lessons learned Ryan!
A must-watch for those new to belt drives. Very informative. 👌🏻 👍🏻
No kidding!! First I've learned of this configuration on bicycles!!!
Great video Ryan! Very educational.
This is GREAT! I have a Priority 600 and my wife has a Priority Current. Wonderful educational video. I'm sorry you were the Guinea Pig Ryan, but your experience will help lots of other people who are changing over to the Gates belt drive system, and DAVE, what a great analysis and explanation for all us Priority peeps.
Great video and much gratitude for it. Soon as these guys make a recumbent, I'm all over this tech. Love it.
Great PSA. It's also great to have Priority up front about a) that it can happen, and b) how to avoid it happening. Now, if only the 600X I ordered would ship, but sadly it's in the queue for 2022.
Don't have a Gates system but still found this interesting. Well done Ryan.
There's an app!?! Geez I am now going to the app store to download and test mine. Wow, what a good piece of info Ryan
Really interesting. Dave seems like a great guy too. I love Priority Bikes.
Sorry you didn’t finish Ryan:( thank you so much for sharing your adventures
Very useful diagnostics of the broken gates carbon belt
Hands down, Best content creator in yt
This is very helpful and interesting. Dave is obviously a super smart dude and wasn’t a jerk about it all.
It's not helpful, because there is no solutione for that problem (Belt in combination with pinion)!
Failure Analysis with the bicycle manufacturer? This is really cool. Well done Ryan.
I have over 12000 miles on my gates belt drive bike and hardly any wear. My belt has never come off on its own. After watching this video, I will be extra careful when changing tires not to force the belt on. Thanks and I really enjoy your videos.
Thanks for sharing. And yes, RTFM.
My buddy and I are picking up our new bikes with Rohloff and Gates belt drive next month.
This was incredibly helpful! I will be getting my 600X in the Fall. I already have a Surly World Troller with a Rohloff and the Gates belt drive. When putting my bike together (it has S&S couplers, so flys in a regular sized case), I have once or twice rolled the belt on. I won’t be doing that anymore! Thanks for a great video!
Better you dont buy your 600X, bad choice at all!
Hey Ryan! Love the videos. Thanks for doing what you do. This video was so helpful. I’m purchasing a Priority Continuum soon, and this video gives me more confidence in Priority’s quality. It will be my first belt-drive bike. Keep up the good work, bro!
This viedeo is not that helpful, because there is no fast solution for the main problem of a too hight trainforce for that tiny belt!
Thanks to both you and Priority for this video. I got my 600 a few months ago and as a new rider, I worry about this. It would be awesome if you made a whole series on how to fix bike issues that might happen on the road. Thanks again!
You better sell that bike again, I am honest!
Skimming over, or not reading the instructions, is a man thing! So thanks for sharing your unfortunate demised. I’ve learned a lot from your videos and from Connor’s instructional ones and am keen to invest in a Priority Apollo for mixed terrain touring, but definitely will take a spare belt with me with the intension of never using it!! All the best Ryan for future adventures.
As I patiently wait for my 600 to be shipped ( just a few more days of waiting) this a most timely video, as I had wondered what the right amount of tension would be. Thanks for sharing Ryan.
You’re gonna LOVE that bike!!
@@duzer I am not that sure ...
I snapped a belt today. I found this video very educational. Thank you!
I’m sorry about your belt, but glad that this was helpful
Fascinating, funny, charming. Subscribed. As a musician and instrument maker, I especially approve of the acoustic testing of belt tension.
More power to you from rainy Vienna, Scott
Thanks for this. I checked my tension and I was way low even for good riding conditions. I upped mine a bit on my 600. Sorry this happened to you!
Life always comes with a few breaks. Reminds me of the century ride that got cut short five miles out, by getting my tire and tube punctured by a piece of metal rod on the highway I was biking on, in the lone prairie of Saskatchewan, Canada. I had to push my bike back a couple of miles to a weigh scale station where there was luckly, a pay phone to call my brother collect, to come and pick me up. The days before cellphones. Awe the days of 50 miles out against the wind, and flying back other 50, with the wind. Priceless. Love your video on the New Mexico Divide trail bike. A newbe to your channel.
You take care of anything it takes care of you . As a motorcyclist and bicyclist I like belts .
Same thing happened to me. Thanks for the explanation!
Glad it helped!
I learned new things today. thank you sir.
Nice, this is a real eye opening learning experience on belt drive and taking care of it.
Now we all or at least I will know so this won’t happen to me.
Thanks
My bike nerdiness has been satisfied!
I was disheartened when I saw the belt getting snapped... Almost like, captain America shield was broken in the middle of a fight...
Glad that we could learn about it and hopefully carry atleast 2 extra belts just in case... Eg: Middle of Russia.
I like that analogy!!
Love video. Finaly i understund how belt is made.
Thanks for making this video. I got some valuable info that I can use on my 600X.
Super helpful! I had a belt fall off and I did it all wrong. I wont leave home without the spare. I might even add a little tension next time I'm in the mud.
Great video!
I am sorry that happened to you, Ryan! In this informative video, I would have liked to see a demonstration of how to install the spare belt while out on the trail (or in the shop, or anywhere). This is the first time I have seen a belt drive on a bicycle, but it seems pretty cool. My motorcycle has a belt drive, I have replaced it every 30,000 miles, well before its failure point. The bicycle one looks very similar to the one on my moto. Thanks for the informative video!
I broke a belt last night. Luckily my friend had a spare. We used the app and the gates belt tension tool. Thanks for sharing this valuable information
Did you incounter mud some where along the line?
@@kenkugel9487 no it actually happened 3 miles into the ride on a brand new bike and new belt. I am pretty sure the belt was defective or it wasn't handled properly at some point before I got it or my local mechanic unknowingly twisted it the wrong way. Replacement belt seems fine. Always carry a spare.
Nothing like a tongue lashing with a compliment at the end. Must have been a long walk to get out of there.?? Your still cool Ryan
I remember a bike guru i think it was Geoff Apps in the early 80's dreaming of suspension and hub gears and having a non derailleur set up. A big plus of this was to enclose the drive train and protect the chain, sprockets , chainrings from dirt and mud. Just like mudguards it will never look cool though and probably why you only see them on city bikes in Holland. An easy clip together enclosure might be a good thing on these belt drive/IGH bikes or at least an option.
| agree, the Geoff Apps bike had massive clearance at the bottom bracket in order to negate damage to a pretty important part of a bike, the drive train. I wonder if that carbon had been slammed against some rocks and with all the weight on the bike rider and baggage, it would snap those twines. Then, down with some proper pedal force on a climb, the rest is physics.
www.cyclinguk.org/sites/default/files/document/migrated/publication/201009022.pdf
Mike Burroughs designed a few bikes with fully enclosed drivetrains.
Very useful! Thanks Ryan for letting us learn through YOUR mistakes.🤣
Totally. I’m going to get the second generation Priority Current when they release it next year.
A very useful vid. This knowledge about belt tension and proper reinstallation will be valuable to others. I can see the improper reinstall as a common cause of failure. If Gates and bike builders that use their belts want to avoid a future bad reputation then some upfront effort on customer education would be time and money well spent.
Twister: Don't fold the maps!
Duzer: Don't roll the belts!
That was brave of you to have carried on and really appreciate...If I get a chance would love to ride with you some day...
I suspect that under similar circumstances most videos would have turned into some version of Gates Carbon Belts are useless, avoid at all costs. I really appreciate you turning this into a useful learning experience for all of us.
^This^
OMG!! I remember watching that TEAMS commerciallll!!! Only now I'm connecting the dots!!
Thanks for sharing this information Brother 😎✌️. I'm thinking of getting a Priority Bike for Touring! When I saw you Break the belt? I started to think twice about a Belt Drive Bike? After this Tutorial Video by the Owner Dave! I'm Back On Track for a belt drive bike! 🤔😁👍❣️
Great video dude. Thanks a million for being humble enough to put it up. Legend!! When you coming to do the European Divide????
Love the GoldenEye sound effects for the warning. Hear that everywhere.
Pew pew pew !
Very informative video! How can anyone give a thumbs down to this! Thank you!
Thank you for the video!!
My pleasure!
I snapped a gates belt clean off once... after 3 years of commuting in Boston, no bikepacking, but lots of torque at traffic lights and it was -15/-20 C at the time (new england winter)
I'm gutted for you on this, but we have all learned something from it. really looking forward to getting my one. when and where is your next tour. and as always thank you for the inspiration
The main problem is not the belt, it is the pinion gearbox, producing to much tension!
great OPM learning opportunity. other peoples money, other peoples mistakes
Haha! So true
Good movie. Its just after I finish 4 day eagle nest bike trail in Poland. And my new chain doesn't look good anymore
Now you’ll need to start saying “no belt breakies”
Yes. that should definitely be added
No snappies
isnt that a whammie?
@@PeskeDad pretty sure that’s a whammie
A whammie for sure
I had my Trek District+ 7 Lowstep with Gates Carbon Drive CDX belt break apart four days ago after three years and 3600 km. This video helps me understand a little why it happened and learn what to do going forward. I've had the belt come of two times during these three years, the second one was only a week before the belt broke apart, so I guess something might relate to that incident, maybe. I ride easy work commute on priority bike roads in my home town so nothing hard, except during these winter times when there's snow and ice and sand on ice. I didn't know about the app to check the tension easily so I will do that from now on. Still, I am surprised that easy work commute route made the belt break apart.
great video
I have been using a Gates/Rohloff system for about 8 years and have broken three belts over that time. If I’m riding on long rides and multi day rides I always carry a spare belt. Wear and problems can occur when the belt is too loose which causes the chainring and cogs to wear prematurely then damage the belt. I have two bikes with Gates belts, my Ventana El Commondante and my Riese & Muller Superdelite. I race, tour and generally ride on the El Commondante and use the Superdelite as a general utility bike. What is of note is the Superdelite has a spring tensioner which actually reverses the shape of the belt on the bike and I’ve never broken a belt on that bike all breakages have been on the El Commondante which is subjected to lots of abuse. Gates belts are not indestructible but I still rate them higher than a chain.
Everyone should send new products to you for torture testing. You sir are on another level. Nothing goes to market until it's duzer tested.
Priority needs to put a tougher belt on this bike, which is meant to be used to its limits by riders like Ryan.
Haha! I like that idea
@@duzer
Are you doing ragbrai this year?
Kind of interesting the way you coil the belt is how I coil a bandsaw blade for my woodworking hobby. Blade tension is also key in how it performs.
As someone who has ran belts on motorcycles for decades I can tell you that belts are far superior to chains but there are a couple things to watch for. A single pebble getting between the belt and the pulley can tear the belt. It may not fail at that moment but it creates a fail point for some time in the future. On motorcycles the belts are 3-4 times wider so a pebble putting a tear hole in the middle may not shorten the life of that belt but if it's along the edge, it's best to replace the belt ASAP and they are not cheap on a motorcycle.
On motorcycles the manufacturer usually puts some kind of rock guard on the swing arm to prevent rocks from getting between the belt and pulley at the bottom where it would do maximum damage. On a bicycle that gets into the mud like Ryan did here, a full belt guard would be something to consider. Heat is not an issue on a bicycle like it is on a motorcycle with an engine generating a lot of heat, especially in the summer so a full guard might look strange but would prevent this kind of thing from happening. It could even be a clear plastic guard so the rider could keep an eye on the parts it's protecting. An easy twist connector would make it easy to split the guard for cleaning and further inspecting. On a bicycle like this, weight is a factor too of course so just a light thin guard would do it to keep mud and rocks out of the pulleys/belt.
Pardon me if this was addressed elsewhere. I didn't read all the posts.
Dave's slowly working towards the "...and that's why this isn't covered under warranty...also thank you for helping design our bike" part of the speech :D
Lettin' ya down easy
I can’t thank you enough for this video. I do bike touring using my Priority 600 and, at times get out in the wild places. I just ordered my spare belt that will always travel with me. I also found, after changing a rear flat, that my belt was extremely loose and used the Gates App to tighten it. The one issue is I cannot find the specific tension recommendation for the 600 but will keep looking. Set at 50hz as it felt right. NOW… SHOW US ANOTHER VIDEO ON BELT INSTALLATION as you install your new belt on to the 600X - I assume the engineering may be similar. Priority does not have a video on that process and I cannot see where or how you BREAK into the frame for mounting a new belt.
Believe me or not, but I work in the commercial delivery cargo bike maintenance business in the Netherlands.
Last March there was extreme snowfall for a week and in that single week we've had 42 belt drivetrains breaking the belt. True story.
Cheers to Ryan for his brutal carbon-smashing stomp wattage !! LOL Loved this video; I'm a service sales engineer ... Dave from Gates is EXCELLENT at both describing what went wrong, and telling the client what they should have done without being condescending. Plus, he makes the whole bad situation a win-win to keep his product looking like the best solution. Thanks for sharing this with us, but what's next Ryan ? How to properly taco double-wall rims ?? Hahaha
Thanks so much for the informative video. I replaced a low grade Carbon Gates CDN after +30,000 km and got a CDX. I was so stupid that I just looked at the number of teeth and put it on. Little I knew it probably was too tight all the while as it has just snapped after less than 2,000 km. I'll buy 2 more and bring the bike to a professional to have it tighten and I'll check the tension frequently😢
Have a Gates belt on Cannondale tandem. The aluminum frame changes with temperature. In cooler weather the belt looses tension noticably.