Betrayed! How German Auto Lost Their Engineering Soul and Lied to Fans, Customers and their Heritage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
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Main articles used in Part 1:
Main article: www.spiegel.de/international/...
Officials knew but ignored: www.spiegel.de/international/...
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00:00 - Start
02:06 - Part 1: Germany - Das Kartell
05:05 - - The Circle of Five
05:59 - - The Seeds
of Dieselgate
10:47 - - Your Tank is Larger than Mine
13:41 - - A Deal with the Devil
16:56 - - Besides Emissions
20:20 - - No Big Picture
22:48 - Part 2: Worldwide - The Cartelssss
23:42 - - Those Friendly Regulators
26:11 - - Rot and Stench Everywhere
26:49 - You Got Scr*wed! (So Did I!)
#BMW #Porsche #Audi #Mercedes #VW - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I never trusted the neo Nazi regime in Germany, never for one second, but still I am shocked by the collusion here.
Never ever would buy a German car, not even used, too expensive to maintain. They look great, I’m sure they’re fun to drive. I’ve got a 244DL Volvo, and with that I am not supporting racist Nazi progeny
Excellent video with a smart method of putting things into stark perspective - thank you.
Unfortunately, two major recent developments were totally missed here - that of the EU government working with the insurance industry behind closed doors to ban insurance of cars older than 10 years, and ALSO drafting legislation to effectively outlaw major repairs of same. With the ACTUAL environmental footprint of developing and manufacturing a new vehicle (including the personal footprint of literally tens of thousands of engineers, assembly and transport workers, and staffs of hundreds of parts suppliers etc.), the real goals are very obviously "other".
It would be good to see a follow-up video.
You sound very much like a native american. Maybe these things are true, fair enough, but from your mouth that whole thing sounds like a campaign for USA made cars. What I can hear constantly is "GERMAN cars" and "GERMAN manufacturers". Wonder how stinky US manufacturers can be? Or asian, or other european? I honestly believe most of the world's companies (and not just automotive) are dirty in some way or another. Nothing new to see here...
Raycons are shit
What I have noticed over the last 25 years is how supposedly premium German cars have become markedly more expensive whilst also becoming markedly less well built and reliable. Now it all makes sense.
It took me decades to realize free market is just another BS, all corporations worked together to create a cartel, on almost every products you can think off, financial, banking, gold bullions, education, any agencies you can think off.
They are always under the control of 3- 4 "parent" companies....largely owned by the same share holders (oligarchs often hide behind mega corporations, so they will never get the blame, because you don't see them, you don't know who they are).
I heard this story in the 90s. Now they are putting plastic parts inside hot engines
@@Pmooli Its almost like they all decided they will stop development of naturally aspirated engines that run cooler and provide better efficiency...
It has a lot to do with sharing parts and platforms is my guess…
Drove Mercs for over 30 years, starting w/used '80 300 and ending w/ '03 S500 landbarge. I still have a '93 190 in the driveway. The speed that this badge went off the cliff was shocking.
They were always absurdly expensive to fix, but they never broke. I believe the brand was killed when the MBAs took over in '93 and announced that their products were over-engineered. From then on, we still paid almost twice as much but got an unreliable car that was more cheaply made every year while the price just kept increasing, and the repairs got even more expensive as well as a lot more frequent.
Companies aren’t run by engineers but by business men. And this is a problem.
I disagree - problem is marketing - it's science of lying and business for selfish people. Most business men are rational and logical - problem is that marketing has time to lie to them and clients, but engineers has not.
Imo without buisness men these companies wouldn’t have survived the Japanese/korean wave in the 70s. How to beat the Japanese and Koreans. Say your cheap cars are superior in features and comforts
@@HakkoChannelMarketing is nothing more or nothing less than the spokesmen of what management decided to produce. Technical engineers repeatedly reported to their managers that it could be seen as betrayal software that in the end was used for cars sold to the customers. Even design is agreed or declined by management. Marketing may give some advice on what to do for getting the last few inches in front of competitors in the eyes of the target audience for each brand, but everything is agreed or declined by product managers.
@@huyra8019I don't understand what you're trying to tell. German cars never were cheaper or at least as cheap as japanese or especially south-korean cars. Japanese cars were well stuffed with features back in the end-70s up to late 80s. Korean cars nowadays do even set exclamation marks on sportiveness in some car sectors. But do that companies like Honda/ Toyota/ Mazda or Kia/ Hyunday build with that high-end materials like you could get from a Mercedes, Audi or even BMW? But, yes, I do agree that I start to miss the extraordinary high class materials in german cars more and more. German cars more do blend into the mainline cars most of the time.
Nah bro an engineer can't run a company of course the companies are run by business men. What you mean is cars are designed by marketers instead of engineers.
The German mfrs figured out most American lease luxury cars for 3-yrs and trade them in. Nowadays MBZ, BMW, Audi etc all fall apart after 50k miles in the sense they become prohibitively expensive to run and maintain. I'm never buying another 'new' German car built in the 2000s--ever!
This has been true for luxury & sports cars essentially forever, bt it's worth noting that compared to the best of the 1970s, ALL modern cars are fantastically reliable and long-lived
Even 90s German crap fell to bits as well, I saw it happen with my own eyes
@@simonspider18:03 did you even watch this video?
It‘s because nowadays most „German“ cars are made in the USA.
@@axwest1 a rare one, congrats!
No crap, very few people outside of germany get it without help, without a little push in the right direction.
They always think it must be the cars that have become bad. yeah, sure... why is it that in germany we have WAY less problems?
because the cars are really made in germany and we have TÜV, which forces us to do service in the demanded intervalls.
I was born in Munich where BMW is headquartered so I grew up around BMWs and German cars all my life. M3/5s were every kids dream car and many people had jobs at one of the big manufacturers. As much their is a rich history in those car companies, I’m totally not surprised with all the collusion and cartels they be running. They all became “too big to fail” and politicians will always cave in in support of those companies. Sadly these brands don’t offer anymore what they used to stand for. Especially in the US, as you grow older you realize that driving a German branded car doesn’t make you any better. Now I got three Toyotas in my driveway that exceeded beyond expectations
yea. the E34 M5 was the last hand-built M car. Snap one up if you can they will be worth 911 money... eventually:) i have.
Damn I almost believed the words of someone with 3 toyotas.
My brother purchased a BMW 2002 in 1987 and laughed at my cheap Mitsubishi Lancer, but that Lancer never missed a beat. Eventually his wife got sick of the BMW being a driveway queen after it had sat broken down for 6 months and called a scrapper whilst he was at work one day in 1993. He then bought a Volvo which had similar issues so she put her foot down and made him buy a Toyota Corona
BMW have never been particularly reliable cars - much better than British or French ones, but that isn't difficult. They (like Fiat) took lessons onboard from the Japanese about customers preferring reliable cars but the Americanisation of European manufacturers has torpedoed that (BMW is the USA's largest vehicle exporter, believe it or not)
Japan is now facing existential threats to its motor industry from China - people may laugh at them now, but they were laughing at Korean cars in the 1980s and Japanese in the 1960s. Whilst there are the "cheap junk" vehicles still, the vast majority of Chinese cars are world class and in another decade they'll be worldbeating. Chinese consumers are seeing to that thanks to their increasingly expensive tastes and spending money
Protectionism doesn't work in the long term. It results in lazy manufacturers who exploit captive markets mercilessly (which is why nobody will buy USA cars outside North America - too expensive, thirsty, heavy and unreliable)
Europe has opened its car/truck market (zero tariff) to Japan and is in the process of doing the same for Korea. It will do the same for China too - and the lobbying power of the German makers will fade (Stellantis seems less inclined to lobby as it has factories everywhere and Fiat's been building "untouched by human hands" cars since the 1980s). Meantime the USA seems determined to isolate itself further from global trade whilst simultaneously attempting to dictate terms and this isn't going down well
Bear in mind that whilst the USA may have a smaller percentage of world trade now than it did in 1990, that trade has doubled in real terms - it's just that China, India, Brazil and the EU have all grown their eocnomies and the overall pie is 7 times larger than it used to be - proof that properly managed capitalism actually works (6 billion people have been lifted out of poverty in the last 30 years...)
Car makers depending on protectionism or "traditional" buyers are living on borrowed time. Modern German cars are like a Swatch - brightly coloured and fashonable, but designed to be disposable. Meantime USA makers have learned _some_ lessons and are building cars that last longer, but they're still failing to adequately protect against corrosion, etc
Let's see what happens. Germans may try hard to keep the cartel going but EU regulators are likely to stomp on it - and whilst that may hurt in the short term it will probably save them in the long term (Dieselgate has resulted in VW making a huge committment to BEVs. This probably means they'll be the european maker which survives best)
@@alanbrown397 Cool story alan! My 2006 330i has 165K and runs like a champ! I see e46s and e90s everywhere, all day, but I don't see many 2006 Mitsubishis driving around.
Look into the history of the Quandt family, how they escaped Nuremberg prosecution despite war crimes, how they screwed Karl Borgward by pulling political strings, and then took over their engineering staff, and you'll better understand how moral bankruptcy was cemented into BMW corporate genes from the 60s onward.
I totally concur with this ! As an auto electrician I worked on many German cars & saw the quality plummet from the 70s to the 2000s !
It‘s because nowadays most „German“ cars are made in the USA.
Late 90s to early 2000s (pre the 2005 EU solvent regulation) cars are imo the most reliable and resistant to rusting or corrosion.
After seeing this the quality deterioration over the last 20 years makes sense. I used to hope that these automakers should survive, but after watching this, they all deserve to go bankrupt.
Especially BMW, they are just a shell of their former selves with all their electric crap
Unfortunately, the relationship between EU & automakers seems to be the same, as relationship between Boeing & US government, aka EU won´t let them go bankrupt.
I had an '85 VW GTI. It broke way too many times and was difficult to service. I was so happy to replace it with a Lada. And now they are worse? Hard to believe.
Trouble is, most of the "they" are innocent workers who have no power. They are I'd definitely like to see the corrupt management go out of business.
Diesel Gate - My Mercedes sprinter van was recalled for emissions control. I was told in writing that I would receive $2,000 on completion of the repair. After repair, I requested the $2,000 and was presented with a multi page agreement that I must sign in order to receive the money. The agreement stripped away all my rights as a consumer. Obviously I didn’t sign.
As far as I am concerned, the German automobile industry is a den of snakes, and I will never ever ever buy another German automobile.
IMO emissions killed many of these vehicles. I can already see many BMW engineers completely lost of passion for these cars figuring out how to make a 500hp sports car meet ever more demanding emission tests.
Though I've heard from my mother that even BMW's back in the 90's would have an issue spring up and end up at the shop for several weeks.
Meanwhile, Toyota stayed with what it knows, boring, slow, and coincidentally boring and slow is the easiest way to meet emissions standards. instant throttle response creates more pollution.
@@Electronica27 I don’t buy the emissions angle. Somehow American car companies have managed to produce 5,6,7, 800 hp cars and have the same constraints. I am a big Subaru fan and the same excuse was made for why the WRX has limited horsepower. If the American car companies can have that passion for performance there is no reason why others can’t.
Tesla
Grünheide😅
I bought a 2013 Passat TDI new. Was getting near 40 mpg. When diesel gate was announced, I turned in my Passat through VW’s buyback program as I didn’t know what loss of milage & power would result if I kept it after VW restored emissions software. VW destroyed any confidence I had in them when I read what they did to meet emissions standards. Went through a couple of vehicles & now own an older 2015 Model S P85D.
@@ChiSpire CAFE regulations have had some "interesting" unintended consequences. Those high power monsters are limited halo cars which exist because American regulations encourage their existence, whilst European (and other) market rules strongly _discourage_ them
These days car companies have turned into outright criminals. Just look at their greed. There was a time when you bought a BMW/Merc for quality and prestige. They basically had 3 main models which gave you rarity, prestige, etc. Now they sell more models than GM! Why should I pay $30K extra for a car that's more common than a cheap Ford, Renault or GM?
This is because there is a limit to the size of the exclusive/luxury class is, and companies have to move down market to grow.
@@howebrad4601 But by moving downmarket they are eliminating the main reason why people paid a premium for their products in the first place.
Also, look at their quality, it's just like GM, Ford, Fiat... no difference.
If Rolls Royce starts making cars like Ford Fiesta, I might as well buy a Fiesta for £13K. Why should I pay them £120K?
Speaking as someone who works in the motor industry I can tell you that this sort of thing has been going on for years. We have now reached the worst kind of zenith where, due to component sharing, anything from floor pans and panels to engines and gearboxes, the consumer just doesn’t know what they’re buying. The fact that a vehicle has a certain company’s badge on the bonnet means absolutely nothing. But this is the corporate way, where branding is just the way vehicles are sold, yes they use words like ‘heritage’ and ‘tradition’ in their brochures but it’s about as sincere as a toilet cleaner or double glazing advert.
The problem gets really bad at the top of the market sectors because people are paying an extraordinary amount of money for what can only be described as an ‘industry standard vehicle’ with a ‘badge premium’.
With regards to Mercedes Benz, Audi & BMW, in their heyday, they just built beautiful cars to a much higher standard but with their modern line up they’ve become obsessed with the glitzy touches that their customers, who have no bloody taste, insist festoon their idea of a luxury car.
With Mercedes in particular, buying one is not as big a financial commitment as actually running it because every part that car will ever need, whilst industry standard, comes in a box with ‘Mercedes-Benz’ written on it and those boxes are bloody expensive.
As an American living in Europe, I can't tell you much "dieselgate" bugged me. There were zero consequences on this continent, NONE, zippo, nada...
EU played dumb like there's no tomorrow. Half the continent has no idea WTF "dieselgate" even means.
I think you have differentiate between countries. In Germany, the impact was massive. E.g. VW has been fined in Germany billions of €, a whole new lawyer industry has developed around Dieselgate. The damage to Diesel reputation was massive. The clean up continues until today. In Italy and France though, although car companies like Fiat and Renault were using similar technologies, you hardly hear of any significant legal implications for the companies. This is due to the fact, that companies and regulators were able to cover up any wrongdoing because these companies were not exposed to the US market.
Are there (or were there) any class action lawsuits? Any recalls? Because during the Schäuble years, Germany had the rest of the Eurozone by the balls. Banks got away with murder. And so of course did the VW Group :( @@jado3069
@@jado3069 Who fined VW "billions" and where did that money go?
@@jado3069 " This is due to the fact, that companies and regulators were able to cover up any wrongdoing because these companies were not exposed to the US market." This whole sentence is exactly what I'm saying. Turns out the EU doesn't give a f* about its citizens... much like the US. Hence my disappointment.
@@jado3069 "... a whole new lawyer industry has developed around Dieselgate."
And how has that helped VW customers in say, Finland, Austria, or the Netherlands?
I used to work on bmw’s . The highlight was the 2001 year cars . After that it all goes drastically downhill .
It‘s because nowadays most „German“ cars are made in the USA.
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug, that’s how I feel line 2008-2013
I did as well, miss my 1994 E36. Too bad the rockers rusted very bad
They were junk then as well. Marketing and nostalgia.
Had a 2001 e39 530i manual. Best car I've ever driven, held onto it up to 400k km.
Very nice. Detailed coverage of a surprising issue. Thanks for making it.
This issue isn't that surprising. This kind of stuff has been happening in every automotive industry since the 80's. Even the japanese did so, the most famous instance being the 276hp limit on their performance cars (that in reality made much more than that). And that is one of the more banal instances from 30+ years ago.
Looking at the actually COST and BIM of cars, one could easily come to the conclusion that cars should cost HALF of what they cost today, even accounting for inflation.
So AdBlue actually cleaned diesel emissions, but they didn't want to make the tanks two or three times as big. They had the solution but wouldn't implement it.
Exactly. Some pinheads decided the space is needed for optional subwoofers🤷♂️😑
@@ConnectingODots -- Another solution would have been to program the cars to run shitty when the tank ran out, forcing consumers to refill them after 3,000 miles or so. For some, that's a year, while for others, it's once a month. And if it were once a month, the distribution network for the urea would have widened, making it more convenient.
@@ConnectingODotsand having Adblue available to fill the tanks.
@@ianmontgomery7534 Truckers already need it on the road.
Or, the option for the customer to decide tank size, based on their needs.
When I visited the Auwarter Museum, a automobile museum operated by the founder family of bus manufacturer Neoplan, the owner told the story of their brand. When Neoplan and Setra(another prestigious bus manufacturer) developed their own citybuses in the 80s, and both companies received phone calls from Daimler and MAN, threatening not to supply any diesel engines. While Setra give in, Auwarter family decided to go their own way and find alternatives. So it is not new at all. And Neoplan became a fully subsidiary of MAN and loses its uniqueness since then.....
Gottlob Auwärter - Neoplan:
1935 Gottlob Auwärter jr. Karosseriebau, Omnibus- houses for vehicles and trucks. After WW2: Gottlob Auwärter Karosserie- und Fahrzeugbau KG. 1953 „Neoplan“ their 1st Omnibus with self supporting frame.
Son Konrad Anwärter started around 1960.
1893, Karl Kässbohrer founded the Wagenfabrik Kässbohrer in Ulm. In 1922, Kässbohrer developed a
- trailer for goods transport, having solid rubber wheels. When Karl Kässbohrer senior died in 1922, his sons, Karl junior and Otto Kässbohrer, took over the company ...Its products were buses, coaches, vehicle transporters, trailers and special vehicles like snow groomer vehicles...1951 Setra Omnibus with self supporting frame.
Starting in 1993, the company began falling apart. The division's
- truck bodies, semi-trailers and trailers were sold to the competitor Kögel. In 1994 the
- snow groomer and beach cleaner division was bought out by management and became Kässbohrer Geländefahrzeug.
- Daimler bought the bus and coach division in 1995 and the new name EvoBus was introduced. The only division which is still family owned is
- Kässbohrer Transport Technik Gmbh in Salzburg, Austria, which builds vehicle transporters. There is also a current
- Kässbohrer Fahrzeugwerke in Goch, Germany, manufacturing trailers for commercial vehicles, and is since 2002 part of the Tirsan group. (Source: Wikipedia).
especially what came out of Kässbohrer is very impressive. As you wrote, they gave in. Auwärter/Neoplan could have had a big disadvantage. Well there was e.g. Perkins with Diesel Engines.
If they did collude , the ZF 8HP transmission could be one of the consumer success stories as a result
Wow, I'm blown away. I've been a BMW true believer for almost half a century. Owned around 30 cars, rose through the ranks to become a vice president of the US national club. In that capacity, got to meet many of the players at BMWNA. To say that I feel played would be an understatement. I mean, BMW was like family. They pay club member substantial rebates to keep buying BMWs....and to remain club members. Even more sad, since I genuinely love the car I presently drive, a 2015 3 series touring. Easily the best BMW ever. Then to learn that not just BMW, but all the German manufacturers, the European union, and of course our own government were complicit. Then to learn that we paid a 10 grand 'corruption tax'. Just incredible.
BMW makes crap too, you just didn't realise it.
F80 is the best looking M3
So you owned around 30 cars in less then 50 years??? What a waste of money - should have bought 2 decent cars and sticked 25 years with each ;-)
@@Kristhus So I could stick it in a mutual fund? I've got a business (who owned most of them) a nice home, and enough money to do what I wanted to do. Had a 911, a Benz and a Corvette, too. If I enjoy cars, why not? To me having a lifetime to enjoy great cars, and only having two is the real waste.
at 24 years old(the car not me), the e39 m5 is becoming a source of anxiety as key components in the engine are no longer available. owners of this wonderful machine are hoarding parts as you read this😅
BMW promised parts availability for 50 years at the launch of the z8.
they lied
What has amazed me for years is that the Germans are known for engineering yet all these brands are considered expensive to maintain if not unreliable.
They spend a lot on marketing, and that's enough to get the customers. They don't need high quality.
@@dandare1001 sounds like iphone
German engineering is known for precision, and their cars are designed for high performance and the driving experience with a side of luxury. They have seldom done well for reliability or repairability, the chief exception being some early VW products.
American engineering focuses on manufacturability, mass production, and cost cutting. This is why although Germany built the first automobiles, the U.S. was soon making over 100,000 per year while Germany was stuck at around 5,000. American engineers brought automobiles to the masses.
Russian engineering focuses on reliability and durability. Their vehicles will leak oil, use huge amounts of fuel, and feature some really strange hacks, but the three of them they produce per year will be bullet proof.
Japanese engineering focuses on continual, incremental improvements of innovations that others come up with. They seldom innovate something entirely new, but they'll take other people's innovations and make the best version of them possible.
British engineering was pretty good during the Victorian era. Their rigid class structure seems to have hampered them since then.
There are some other national cultures of engineering too, but those are the basic ones. Each of them has its own advantages and disadvantages, and it's hard to say that one is "best". What would be best, however, would be to learn from each of these schools of engineering (and others) and integrate the best of each approach into building new products.
@@alanlight7740 a fairly good summary, apart from a few points (in my opinion):
Mercedes used to build very good cars until the start of the 90s. Germany also copies the innovations of other manufacturers like the Japanese. They have very similar cultures of obedience and not sticking out of the crowd, hence stifling home-grown innovation and "borrowing" others' ideas.
British engineering has always been very innovative, as has French. The French are masters of cost-cutting but with very high quality, at times (they have produced some very reliable cheap cars). I think British quality control has often left much to be desired, but not always.
You forgot to mention the Swedes. Volvo (and possibly Saab) have probably produced some of the best quality cars, ever.
I measure quality not by options lists, but by whether the cars are still working after many years, without (many, if any) faults..
Yes of course to take the best from all manufacturers sounds like a good idea, but it costs money and you rarely get repeat sales if the vehicle is so expensive. I think that's one reason Mercedes went cheap- to survive. I think Lexus does it by being a lost-leader for Toyota.
It doesn't work in a consumption-driven market.
@@dandare1001 - Good points.
I was thinking in terms of general national cultures of engineering, and the biggest players. The Swedes, and also the Italians and the Scots, and probably today's Chinese also deserve a mention, and even India for extreme simplification - but not necessarily related to the automotive industry in most of these cases.
Anglo-American engineering culture is probably the best at innovation, but as you say the British have long had a problem with quality control. That's a good way of saying it. Possibly America has done better on quality because we have a mix of several engineering cultures including British and German - and also because we don't have a culture that prevents engineers and tradesmen from working together.
Based on your reporting, the description of Tesla being labelled a disrupter in the auto industry is, therefore, much more significant.
Great point. A disrupter in an industry resisting change
Makes me suspicious of the ecoterrorism that was just inflicted on Tesla
@@bzn2sfoyep, nothing to do with eco, unless it’s eco-nomics
@@mrmichrom8553 good one haha
@@mrmichrom8553Oh, the "slush fund" of The FIVE is huge!. They can do this until they get caught ...later.
My first car was a ‘75 VW Rabbit, which my husband and his brothers had inherited from their parents when the boys went to college. I learned to wrench on that car.
Yes, we consumers and enthusiasts have noted that the once bulletproof cars from Germany have become overpriced garage queens, quickly ruining the buy of a lifetime you thought you made.
I don’t wanna be this guy but at one minute and 31 seconds you said F 90 M3 it should be F 80 M3 but that tells you how passionate I am about German cars and I wish that they would become like they were in the 80s and 90s again with that fierce competition that you talked about great video by the way
Also the German Greens mandated the use of biodegradable plastics in German cars in the 90s… ask any mechanic!🤣
None were hit harder than the BMW E36, oof
Care to cite a source for that? Considering that the Greens never participated in federal government before the 1998 election - and with 6.9 percent of the vote they they were only a junior partner back then - it would've been a neat trick for them to "mandate" anything. Besides: A party does not dish out "mandates" - the federal government does.
Secondly: Plastics in cars could always cause issues WRT longevity. Just ask any owner of 1970s/1980s Porsche 924s and 944s about cracked dashboards on those models that were made in the "good old days".
What I do remember from the 1990s is that manufacturers started to put recycling labels on lots of parts used in car production, including plastic-parts. The reason being that those parts could then be easily sorted and recycled. Pretty sure the Golf Mk III was the first VW to introduce these labels. And I fail to see how eliminating waste and trying to go less resource-intensive is a bad thing for any industry.
The German Greens were not even in power at that time.
as a mercedes mechanic for the last 29 years. inmo cars made 50-60 years ago were better built than what is today.
Yes could not agree more. I remember buying a 1964 220SEb in 1980 and had it for 10 years the only thing that broke was the ignition barrel. Now it's house key and car key only on the fob. It was easy to work on and in those days all parts could be obtained from MB.
nowadays their cars are a joke, an insult to what came before, back then seats were actual leather and withstood the test of time, now they become brittle,dry and crumble 3 years in and needed to be replaced under warranty. Polished Wood trims, leather door trim and dashboards turned to creaking plastic trims. And the most infuriating part, drivetrain. A stock 124 can go 250km/h and going 180 feels like nothing. A 206 can't even go above 180km/h without feeling like you're piloting a fighter jet. It has a 48v system, it has 3 coolant circuits, 9 speed transmission, direct injection, turbo and STILL, not feeling like an improvement from a car from more than 20 YEARS AGO. Not to mention the myriad of software issues and the stupid fuel pump recall affecting almost every single model. They are not a company selling cars. They are a branded company selling pieces of rolling shits they tag as premium vehicles.
@@andrewchin5583 i have been replacing a lot of leaking fuel pumps that the dealership refuses to warranty. now they will not even sell the transponder keys for the carrs in the 90s. this is why I ride a 97 BMW motorcycle and have a 01 Miata that i will never sell.
German engineering has been BS for a while. My sister owned an Audi A4 and had a coolant leak. Having worked on cars since a kid, I volunteered to fix it for her instead of the Audi repair bill of $500. The leak was fairly easy to locate as it occurred at the upper hose connection to the radiator. But the vaunted German engineering decided that a small coolant line be connected to the hose itself and that nipple that was used for the connection, was the source of the leak. The nipple was part of the molded section of the hose. An obvious point of failure introduced for whatever reason, probably cost savings. A cursory search of TH-cam provides ample evidence of the illusion that WAS German engineering.
This is called a “profit center”. The engineer designing the part intends for the part to fail at regular intervals. The plastic hoods on John Deere riding mowers is another example of a profit center.
shareholders MUST get their handouts and they must get larger every year... it's the LAW !
The M badge on a BMW used to mean something. Now, it’s just a joke.
When the technicians stopped putting their name on the M engines they were putting together, is when BMW started making ///M stand for Marketing
now the Mx CS is the true "M" car, and the M cars are what BMW should've been, instead of glorified Toyotas (with worse quality)
imho the most shocking video of this channel so far. Unbelievable how crooked the German automotive sector is. Great job on the video!
Glad you like it!
Do you think US or Japanese automakers work differently? They use the same suppliers, the same transporters, dealership network, unions, regulations etc.
Japanese automakers are probably the same or worse. Just look how Akido Toyoda calls all the shots for the Japanese Automotive Association.
I’m glad Tesla is putting them out of business. My only regret is that Tesla decided to make a factory in Germany rather than some other European country. Never ever should we support the neo Nazi regime. Once a Nazi, always a Nazi
It‘s because nowadays most „German“ cars are made in the USA.
That is unbelievable, thank you for showing the details of this.
This is one of my favorite youtube channel's. Thank you for providing us with these valuable insights.
Now this is quality, meaningful reporting! What an eye opening reveal of how the consumers were screwed in every possible way… for a loooong time. THANKS!
"A key role of government is to enforce competition laws and prevent the formation of Cartels." Diesel gate is an exception that proves the rule. Look anywhere you like, and you'll find global, regional, federal and state laws enacted to diminish competition aimed at ensuring or improving government revenue/preventing bankruptcy of itself, or it's people. A true global free market is a good idea, that in reality only works in text books to the benefit of everyone.
Diesel gate was a result of childish unreasonable EPA laws.
Fines don't seem fair. The people who get hurt by the fines are customers and shareholders, not the executives responsible. Make them forint their bank accounts and mansions. They are bad on their job, so salary for the work should not be theirs. Unless judges are paid off that how the penalty should look like.
The stupid thing is the fines they pay to the EU probably end up subsidising these companies in one way or another.
Don’t be mad, just appreciate this video and keep your eyes open. There’s corruption in all systems and there’s corruption fighters in all systems. Thank you CTD!!
Absolutely incredible to think about. This "Circle of 5" is very interesting!
Thank you for this intriguing video, @ConnectingODots!
Glad you enjoyed it!
You are simply the best! You answer the questions I’ve been asking myself.
🙏
Well done, shocking information. I hope this video finds its audience 😢
“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”
Sounds like a quote from HL Mencken
Adam Smith An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations@@disillusionedanglophile7680
I knew there was a reason why I have completely stopped buying new German automobiles, but this video opens my eyes to the reality of my reasoning. THANK YOU
Do you HONESTLY think other automotive manufacturers from the USA, Europe or Asia are any better in that regared? Do you think they are saints? I'm all ears!
Eye opening. Definitely worth the watch, and one of your bravest yet! I'm emailing this link to a couple of my friends will only buy a German car.
🙏
Would love to hear their response (if they watch it)
One watched it so far and emailed, "Yes, very interesting". Retired judge who's only bought German over the 40+ years I've known him. Used to be Porsches now Audi and BMW. In fairness we have a good natured battle going over Tesla's, so I don't expect much agreement as I attack his sacred car companies. @@ConnectingODots
No surprise there. Knew someone working for a German company (construction materials and other), they admitted price fixing in that industry throughout Europe was normal. Got caught, paid the fine, put the prices up to cover the cost and went on as before.
In many European nations, in many industries price fixing is coordinated by ministries...and they even get caught, but of course they won't punish themselves. And courts are all run by politically installed individuals so they know who they serve.
In some European nations they're shameless, even hiring industry lobbyists right into the ministry on their payroll into an official position. When some who understand what that means are outraged they just use their controlled, corrupt press to suppress the issue and change the subject.
I’ve been a strict German car enthusiast for years owning 90s to present cars. I only buy used, and do a lot of work myself. I love my current 2018 Audi Q5 but you can see the collusion in it; the Q5, X3 and GLC300 are effectively the same car spec wise. The Germans cut their teeth on innovation and you can see the Asian/American cars improving while the German cars while still good aren’t like they were 20+ years ago
GM has been rapidly improving their game. New GMC pickups for example have exquisite interior design, fit, finish, and content.
Fantastic video, fantastic information. Subbing for more of this stuff 💪🏻💪🏻
Excellent video! Stay safe out there. I'm pretty sure you just pissed some very powerful people off.
Thank you. Now I also feel betrayed and since I am currently shopping for a new car the list is now free of the two german cars. (M340 and M440).
Really? They’re actually pretty reliable I.e I own one
I was shopping for a good car after my promotion. German cars were not on my list due to expensive maintenance and poor longevity. Also, saw my friend suffer with engine failures in his BMW SUV. He ended up selling it away to Carmax at a huge loss. He eventually got a RAV4 😂
The only possible reason to get German cars now is when they´re dominant in your country. Because it also means lots of spare parts EVERYWHERE.
Why didn't he buy a car?
I bought a special German car to celebrate success back in 2010. It was a BMW 6 Series coupe (E63, LCI). Fast forward 14 years and I keep enjoying it.
Now these OEMs are facing their ultimate demise foreign EVs, and they are getting their butts kicked hard.
Not foreign EVs but Tesla only. Tesla is going to run all these to the ground by 2030!. Just look at Tesla's margin per car and how fast the can make each car. Even VW boss said on time Tesla makes cars 3 times faster than they can. Now not just battery technology which Tesla is on the forefront. Their software is also second to none!. Next their next gen "Unboxed" manufacturing method will move Tesla's goal post way further.
Note: Even on current automation in factories, Tesla ~ 85% automation, the rest around 60%. That in itself is a huge cost and time saving. Tesla is vertically integrated, and going 48v ?. They can do all the stuff inhouse, no other manufacturer does Vertical integration.
@@fteoOpty64Wow, what a load of absolutely delusional lies.
@@fteoOpty64no, Tesla doesn't make its own batteries nor do they make any special automated bots(see teslabot flop).
Tesla buys all batteries from Sony.
@@Tsimi1234 i have never heard Tesla buying batteries from Sony. I know they buy from Panasonic, CATL and also they produce their own. Get your facts straight.
EVs are the biggest scam out there, and part of the public bought it… but they will fail.
This is amazing content. Really e3nlightening to what's really going on behind the scenes. BTW, what's the song at the end of the video?
Very interesting. Thanks for these insights.
I had heard of accusations of collusion in German auto industry but I never knew it was to this extent.
Over the past 15 years I tried all three big German car brands and it never failed, after 5 years of ownership, regular dealer maintenance, running costs post warranty would explode and I would trade the car in around 100,000 km.
My 2022 model 3 is already at 100,000 km and going strong. I’m going to try and drive it for another 100,000km or more.
Everyone knows that present German cars should be leased or sold just before warranty expires. They are not classics anymore you will keep like in the 80's & 90's. They are expensive "4 years" cars & I don't get why they still sell at all.
@@mystisith3984 Yup. The once-ubiquitous diesel mercedes taxis you'd see in most European cities started disappearing during the 2000s and have been rare since the 2010s. Million mile Mercs are a piece of automotive history
Consumers are equally at fault. As long as they buy them, why should they change anything?
Earned a Sub boss🙏
Every industry I've ever worked in had working groups with our 'competitors' where we shared information , design ideas and other ways we could all benefit.
It was actually quite beneficial as we all learned a lot and were able to improve quite a bit.
Not saying what they did was right . Just that its actually very common in the business world.
I know first-hand that you are right. Yet, sweet revenge, what the German car manufacturers never realized, is that their cozy anti-competitive home-grown agreements would actually turn them into much easier prey to foreign competition, especially from Asia. Nowadays, in 2024, the Japanese and South-Koreans are eating their lunch in the dominant American and European markets, while the Chinese (BYD, etc.) are beginning to bite into Europe. Aufwiedersehen, Deutschland!
The cars have just lost their feel, little to no driver engagement with numb steering feel. Minus Porsche GT3’s and GT4’s, but good luck getting one of them. I’ve drove German cars my whole life and I am finally done as of a week ago. I don’t see myself buying a new German car anytime in the near future. Honda/Acura and Toyota have taken over in the driver enthusiast dept and are making some great drivers cars these days.
Thanks!
Thank you George. Highly appreciated 🙏
Excellent journalism!
I was a hardcore petrol head, growing up in the U.S. I had 25 German cars before I was 25. I moved to Germany, discovered this rot and just went without a car for nearly a decade, until finally I bought an American import car that reminded me of what the Germans were once known for, hardcore engineering. That car was a 2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance, I have since bought 3 more the latest a Model S Plaid, I’m never going back to German “progress through marketing” crap.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Ah, Tesla's losing its edge. Its all about the BYD now 👍
A bunch of nonsense. Tesla is a total crap of a car and engineering. Not a single petrol head even thinks about buying an EV.
This video may explain some of the unreasonable Tesla hate out there
EVs are not real cars. They will always be appliances, and a scam…
The joining of MB, BMW& VW under one group guaranteed competition would vanish & they became similar to GM’s brands of Oldsmobile, Chevrolet, Buick, Pontiac sharing R&D, engines, & many parts to reduce costs. Competition cost money & corporations are in the business of making as much of it as possible.
MBVW. Auto Union can go take a flying Frunk!
In the short term…
What a report, great detail and research.
Great video, you gained a subscription! I learned a lot especially for me being a VW guy. I was always suspicious that VW was left alone flapping in the breeze during the "Deisel Gate" scandal. I believed they were guilty, but I've always suspected that they were not alone. I think the arrival of Lexus really was really a turning point for German manufactures. They were "Tesla-like" in their disruption of the luxury hierarchy in 1990. I remember my dad calling them a "glorified Toyota". Soon after Lexus came on the scene, the accountants took over and those beautifully engineered cars like the Mercedes w124 E class were a thing of the past. I used to help my brother work on the w124's back in the day. He owned a lot of them. He has since purchased a W 210 and a W 211 but he believes that the W210 was the last great car that Mercedes has produced, and I agree with him. That car still drives firmly and is built like a tank and looks timeless. Mercedes has never been the same since...
I think many enthusiasts have realized that German cars were overpriced and were becoming less reliable over the years since the 1990s. Used German cars are shunned by the used car market as they are too expensive to repair and are prone to constant failure. You would be crazy to buy any German car, that is older than 5 years. Was it due to lowering costs? To poor engineering? High cost of parts? All of the above it seems. I will stick with my Japanese car thank you.
You forgot to add the links to the articles in the description.
Thanks for the heads up🙏. Added,
Main articles used in Part 1:
Main article: www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-cartel-collusion-between-germany-s-biggest-carmakers-a-1159471.html
Officials knew but ignored: www.spiegel.de/international/business/volkswagen-how-officials-ignored-years-of-emissions-evidence-a-1108325.html
I had an Audi 80 v6 150ps built in 1993 for 26 1/2 year. The care got regular rust preventive treathment as I live in Sweden. At the end I had to let the car go due to the exhaust system needing replacement and with two catalysators this would have costed much more than the car was worth.
This does really make you think about the insane shenanigans surrounding electrification that are going on now. Except it's not just a car manufacturer cartel, it's an unholy alliance between government, corporations and investment hedge funds.
Excellent Excellent point. What you mention is the even bigger scandal going on. Makes this cartel stuff look like child's play. Companies can collude, govt can mandate and issue edicts.
I knew the german car companies were going down hill when I got inside the latest C class
Thank you for presenting this very well researched information . Unfortunately these cartels permeate just about every single thing we buy. From our food to our toys
Very interesting Details, that answer so many question that I had for more than a decade about "why?", "Who?" and "how?". About 2002 I had found a little homepage about software induced emission reduction, when a testing situation (Speed Zero, ABS difference between front and rear, temperature,...) was detected.
Of course this cartel also included numerous automotive suppliers like Bosch, who did the motor control programming back in the day. In 2006 I had met the former chief motor designer of the VW, Audi, Seat group personally after a lecture he had held at the vienna technical univercity. When my brother asked, if VW could influence motor control board development to get specific designed control boards for their engines, he replied "No, the VW group is too small for indivual whishes, we have to take what is currently offered". An early hint to work groups that made the decisions behind closed doors? Without involvement of R&D?
I remember a change in BMW and Mercedes right after Lexus came out. Lexus forced them to build to a price. Before Lexus, german luxury cars were kept for several years now they are only kept by the original owner while under warranty. Depreciation proves it
Like so many people you only see what YOU want to see and not everything that is really there...
@@heikos4264 I see the depreciation in the US
Yes, German Car quality really getting bad. My diesel Mercedes GLK found out is cheating on emission standard. Using Mercedes since 1973, my 2022 GLA have brake warning light, 3 trips to Dealer finally found out is the wiring harness from manufacturer. I had to brought the car to my friend's garage get the brake pad done since the dealer appointment period is 3 months. Other brand is Porsche. Bought my 2022 Porsche 992 C4, had engine misfire problem after a year ownership, 3 trips and 3 weeks of work finally figured out by the master technician is the injector O ring leaking. Also the cement between the main windshield and body frame is melting, now could lead to recall. Thinking of spending over $100,000 for a brand name car expecting quality product, end up with WHAT THE HE??. My Toyota operating smooth and trouble free.
Should I stick with Japanese product or what?
yes
Great video 👏👏
Grat video. Very informative👍
Thank you for exposing the deep corruption
As a German I've only driven Honda, because they don't scam you as hard as the german car makers..(especially the bad reliability and disgusting service costs). now I'm switching to Tesla...and I honestly thought that I would never ever buy a made in Germany car! 😂😂
Stay away from EVs, they catch on fire very often. Look it up.
You mean that your Tesla is made in Berlin?
Interesting video. I posted link to it on the Sprinter-Forum.
Assuming you meant the Mercedes Sprinter - Cool van!
And thanks!
Excellent video with a smart method of putting things into stark perspective - thank you.
Unfortunately, a major recent development was totally missed - that of the EU government working with the insurance industry behind closed doors to ban insurance of cars older than 10 years, and ALSO drafting legislation to effectively outlaw major repairs of same. With the ACTUAL environmental footprint of developing and manufacturing a new vehicle (including the personal footprint of literally tens of thousands of engineers, assembly and transport workers, and staffs of hundreds of parts suppliers etc.), the real goals are very obviously "other".
It would be good to see a follow-up video.
I am still waiting for some investigative journalist to uncover the "troll" phenomenon, especially targeting Tesla, but also EV´s in general (especially till incumbents came up with serious attempts for EV´s).
I think the european motoring press are in on it too.
🎯
I will never buy German again. I was a buyer of BMW's for over a decade and watched them and the dealers that sold them become more and more unpalatable.
I drive Lexus, Toyota and even Alfa Romeo and have no issues.
Your videos are incredible. Thank you for your work
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Volkswagen is partialy owned by the State of Niedersachsen. So the DA who should investigate and prosecute VWs various misdeeds is an Employe of the Companies Owner. Hence the lackluster Law Enforcement.
Decades ago, Germans made some inspiring and unique cars. These days, just driving their reputations into the ground.
Just like their whole country.
This is the same mindset that affected gm in the 70s and badly diminished their image and quality
One of my first courses in my first year of B School contained a unit that might as well have been called "Collusion and How To Do It."
Good work 👍👍
Thanks ✌️
So called German engineering is a joke today and for the past 30 years. My buddy’s auto repair shop is always full of MB and BMW. He says there’s no quality anymore. Cheap plastic parts that wear out or break under the engine heat, etc.. Thats why they depreciate badly and become money pits after a short time. Somehow, people still pay a premium for a car brand that no longer differentiates themselves, like it represents something not ordinary.
You said the f80 m3 is horrible but don’t explain why
Not horrible, just less engineering and driving focused.
Witb little comletition and jointly deciding not to innovate with new tech and not to produce cars that are too good, the car became heavier and less focused. G80 much nicer IMHO.
@@ConnectingODots With little competition
Since 1997, I drive a 1990 MB W124... it is becoming hard to source spare parts, though.
As someone working in this industry, i can tell you this is true.
I was personally not involved in high management level decisions, but i see the end result as a low/mid level engineer.
Before aprox. 2012 besides a few reasonable management constraints the engineers had relative freedom of choice when it comes to solutions.
But especially after Dieselgate, Management style in the german automotive industry has changed dramatically. I expect around 80% of our today's problems with product quality is caused by top management and is pushed down even to the lowest management levels with high force leaving the engineer almost no room to do his job in a proper way to drive inovations.
Ironically the managements pushes all the responsibility in form of compliance letters to sign and to follow sometimes questionable processes (of course sold with a good intention in mind) down to the engineer, instead of letting them do it's job properly and create a good work environment.
As a very passionate automotive engineer for several decades, it' heartbreaking to see what the job became in recent years. imho the next automotive legislation scandal is not a matter of if, but just when.
I like this narrator
Sickening. Only buying Tesla from here on. Sick of the auto companies and dealership cartels price gouging everyone.
Great video!
I bought my last German car in 2010 and it's been working well with minimal problems. My friends who bought German cars after 2015 have had all sorts of problems because the formerly metal parts have been replaced by plastic.
The only thing German cars are good at is their image strategy. This is true not only for German cars but for all European cars; Japan is the only country that can make truly excellent cars.
But the Korean cars are already just as good.
My dad had a number of vw jettas in the 80’s and early 90’s. my aunt had w126 s class and 86 sl convertible and my dad was a top Porsche salesman who picked me up from school in a boxster a few times, so i had a lot of exposure to German vehicles. I ended up with a 95 2.8 vr6 5 speed passat wagon, and when the heater core burst and destroyed the interior I got a 07 3.6 vr6 passat wagon 4 motion, honestly my favorite car I’ve owned cause it hums, handles and had space for everything. Now I have a 2014 bmw 435 convertible and it’s honestly an underwhelming experience. I enjoy the feel and sound of the vr6 when moving compared to the bmw. I honestly want to install a blow off valve just to remind me i have a turbo 6. I mean its just so refined and linear in its power delivery that its just not fun to drive unless im on a back road but then it’s calculated risk or feeling traction control kick in and the pace change just as im having fun.
I don’t think the interior is much better or more attractive than my passat, which had a luxury wood grain and perforated milano leather package. The only real benefits is led headlight upgrade and honestly more planted handling STOCK as I have vogtland coils on my passat which allow me to take sweepers at very high speeds with little concern of loss of control. I actually upgraded the brakes on the passat to a mercedes sport set up and when compared to my bmw noticed extremely high brake fade on my bmw yesterday when coming to a stop after a brisk pace. I found myself thinking about why my ultimate driving machine coupe that was $60k new doesn’t leave me feeling it performs on a higher level than my upgraded $42k family wagon….i guess your video answers why.
My favourite German cars are the Mercedes W124 series and W140, Audi A8 D2, BMW E38 and E39 series.
I now have a 2015, Audi A8 D4 3.0 TDI, and a 2003 Mercedes S320 CDI, W220 - 21 years old.
As a German, i had a '99 CLK for 11 years, beautiful car with excellent build quality. The tried to avoid hard plastic and made most surfaces with soft surfaces over sturdy materials, something hardly to find in later 'premium cars'. I also noticed that i could left my windscreen wiper switched on at 'interval mode' all the time and it would only start working when it would really start raining due to a perfectly working rain sensor. In todays cars you can manually adjust the wiper speed in 'interval mode' like in the 70/80/90s while still having a rain sensor, which by far has not the precision of that in the CLK. It's obviously been downgraded, even in higher premium models.
Gone deep
Balls deep....
My German cars: Briefly, I own a 1999 BMW528iT. Bought with 80K miles. It now has 262K, gets 24mpg, fast, smooth, quiet and no leaks. Back in 2001, I bought a 2001 BMW 330i M sport 5-speed manual. As of 2024, it has 49,000 MI miles original it is like new. In 2018 I bought a 2003 530i BMW 530i with 100,000 miles. It now has 135,000 MI. I was about to buy an X5 to round out my collection but instead I bought a Lexus LX 570. I should have bought the X5 which would have been a 2006 3.0 l. The only car that needed an extended warranty was the lx570. All three of my BMWs do fine with regular maintenance. The the 330i is an E46. The other two are E39. I have to agree these are, the best BMWs ever made. What came before had some problems. What came after had other problems. I am about to take my 1999 528it wagon on a 2000 mile Road Trip this summer with full confidence.
Sounds like the gentleman's agreement that was signed decades ago to still in effect... My favourite M3 is the e30, it was a race car with just enough to be road worthy lol
german LABOR UNIONS were the only winner
Just name it. The IG Metall was the winner.
they lost a lot..... SO MANY LAYOFFS
work for tesla@@stefanpredl6849
" _german LABOR UNIONS were the only winner_ "
Not any more!