What Happened To Quality German Cars?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 พ.ค. 2024
- Why does the quality of the German automobile no longer match its once wonderful image? Or is this just a blip? Can the new generation of electric cars put Germany back on top?
00:00 Why have German cars become so… bad?
01:15 Quality Report: USA & Korea dominate
04:00 Dieselgate
05:00 Germany's Glory Years
07:00 Cost reduction and quality
09:00 New Tech
11:30 Shift to EVs
Niko Ganzer Blog: www.kfz-rueckrufe.de/
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Planned obsolescence. They literally design the product to last just about as long as the factory warranty. Plastic parts everywhere and an 'apple like' approach to repairability. Thats why the Japanese manufacturers outsell them (atleast outside Europe)
And in the past, planned obsolescence wasn't as easy because computer simulations weren't as accurate or accessible, so manufacturers played it safe and often 'over-engineered' components to avoid damaging their reputation. Now they can accurately tailor their components to last a certain amount of time.
Well, the other thing is it's way more expensive to fix whatever on german cars (unless VW) than other not luxury brands from other parts of the world.
If parts are cheap people will fix the cars for a lifetime, when the parts are expensive and ir requires specialized mechanics is better to let it died sooner, the fix worth more than the car sometimes.
@@mapachem4828 At one point, BMW engineered parts of their drive train to use a ridiculous combination of numerous bolts and screws for disassembly, completely unnecessary. It's like designing your wheel to have 16 lug nuggets, with 8 pairs, each having different sizes and design lol
Even Toyota and Honda are beginning to do a lot of the same BS. Toyota’s Hybrids aren’t nearly as reliable as people say they are. Neither are Honda’s. Honda’s got many issues with their 1.5t’s in the Accords, mostly blowing head gaskets. The thermostats are coming stuck open or closed from the factory in the new Tacomas. So it isn’t all fine and dandy unfortunately even with the JDM manufacturers and I’m a HUGE Honda fan.
Exactly!
During 1980s buying Mercedes was like buying a house - it was expensive, but if taken care, it could last you lifetime.
Now it is just waste of money
The Mercedes from the 80s rust very strong as most cars from that time most of them were dead after 10-12 years. The newer ones are a lot better.
@@madmikesch2453 Many people deal with rust and maintain the car.
German cars nowadays are known as expansive shiny turds in the industry. Sad to see. I miss the old diesel land yachts that Germany used to make.
@@Mladjasmilic That's easy in CA, but not in German winter with a lot of salt on the roads.
@@madmikesch2453 I am from Serbia. We have about 2 months of snow in winter and they put salt and grit on the road. But there are still many old Mercs driving around.
I am German and I am a mechanic. The last german Car I've owned was a 1991 BMW 525i.
That car was almost indestructable. Sold it with almost half a million Km, just because it was to uneconomical.
Means it was a car for long distance driving, which I do not have anymore.
With newer BMWs I made the experience that you have to take apart half of the car just for minor repairs and don't dare to touch anything that is made of plastic in the engine bay. Especially coolant lines or flanges. After just a few years they get so brittle that they will break easily
Im from the US and owned the same car and a 7 series from the same generation. I had to get rid of them because I moved but you are absolutely right, indestructible cars. Both had 400k KMs on them and ran just fine, I met people though that had over 800k KMs on similar models. I never had to put money into them. Now my 2005 325i.. that is a different story..
@@Gewehr_32005 is old car almost 20 years old
before 2010 all cars were really good
E39 chassis is top of quality, later models are worse than previous
My 1995 BMW 325i just went over 249,000 miles. It does 0-60 in 7 seconds, gets 24 mpg, and is a pleasure to drive. It is the last car I will ever own. BMW turned into garbage in the last 20 years.
how about vag engine 1.9 tdi .... AHL engine code ...2000- 2003
My family is very proud and very tradition oriented. They have all only owned BMWs with very few exceptions. I broke tradition by buying a Toyota and I couldn't have been happier with my decision. I've seen the BMWs go to the repair shop over and over again for mechanical failures despite them being relatively new; meanwhile my 11 yr old Toyota has never had a single issue. Keep your status symbol vehicles, I'll go with the more practical options.
I still have my 22 year old Toyota Estima. There a reason why African drive Toyota. You break down you die.
And we still have the 33 y/o 6th gen toyota corolla and still runs like a clock
Putting a higher price on a more unreliable car doesn't work in their favor. The only reason people buy them is as status symbol and anyone that knows about cars steers clear from German and American cars.
Id rather sit in a chair and look at broken e92 coupe than drive a corrola 🤷🏼♂️
Depends on how you look at cars, every one of my drives is an event in it self even tho i drive VAG TDI hatchback, but really spicy one of that :)
If you want social status with Toyota reliability you can get a Lexus anyway, even at the high end it's better, the ISF is literally a better M3 for example
As an engineer, I think that when car manufacturers put plastic in very important parts like water pumps, they are shooting themselves in the foot for saving some money because "the market" and the "competition", in the long run the brands suffer because reputation falls. Car brands: Just listen the engineers! They know more about reliability than the marketing department.
Modern business doesn't care. Companies today are run by sociopaths with marketing degrees who care about nothing other than the next quarterly statement and their bonuses. By the time they have destroyed the company and/or its image, they've already jumped out with their golden parachutes.
The problem there is that most of the legacy car manufacturers are making most of their profits by selling replacement parts, so the people making the decisions don't _want_ the cars to be too reliable. In fact, they want the cars to start falling apart the day after the warranty expires.
Of course in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot, because customers eventually notice the drop in quality - and then they stop buying the cars. But the people making those decisions are not worried about the long term health of the company - they just want to get their bonuses and get out before the company goes bankrupt.
As an engineer, you should also know that „plastic“ can be more dureable than stailess steel in some cases. Its not all cheap injection mold stuff
But i agree with your last sentence so much
Unfortunately the accountants have more say than engineers in there!
I am Japanese born in 1974. My grandfather owned a 1973 w116 Mercedes. Compared to the Japanese cars of that time, I loved it for its perfect ride comfort and lean and elegant appearance. I think the Japanese thought that Mercedes at the time would be able to drive high quality forever if the parts were properly replaced. Golf and bmw were similarly deified. I want the old German cars back.
💯🫡
Sad to say old is better than new they don’t make them like the use to.
You're a real fan of the Axis, I see.
Years ago I worked as a mechanic at a dealer that sold Mazda, Volvo and Mercedes cars. The mechanic that worked on the Mercedes called them quality junk and that was in the late 70's early 80's when they were still considered quality automobiles. The Mazfa and Volvo cars were actually better.
Mercedes after the mid-90s clearly shows the company's profit-first attitude.
Incorporating unnecessary gimmicks that did not contribute to the improvement of essential quality, the price was raised, and the design was adapted to the tastes of novices and playwrights.
My favorite Mercedes is a first-class car with tradition and legend, not a frivolous luxury item. It seems that the Land Cruiser, which is active in the wilderness of Africa and Australia, has more elegance than Geländewagen.
I work as a sound engineer in the US. I first learned on analog sound boards. Everything switch to digital sometime in the mid 2ks and has progressed further so that it’s hard to find analog boards. In the audio industry, reliability is way more important than feature sets. No one tolerates a concert being stopped in the middle, and having the sound engineer get on the mic and say ‘I have to reboot the sound board Sorry.’ The console manufactures debug these boards to the point where you can leave them on for weeks w/I problems. If you leave them on for a month, you have a problem. Why wouldn’t auto manufactures See the need to have a similar level of reliability? Seems like it’s more dangerous to be traveling at a high speed and have a computer crash, then it is to have a rock concert end early.
I've owned over 100 cars from many car brands. American, Japanese, Korean, German, and Swedish. I can say with absolute confidence that Japanese cars are the most reliable and the easiest to work on. American and Korean cars are about the same with average reliability and repairability. German cars are the most fun and engaging but they also have an abundance of cheap plastic parts in critical areas (such as cooling and oiling systems) and they are by far the hardest to service.
But Japanese cars are extremely boring and poorly designed. Just their interiors alone make me depressed.
A car that fails to start and run makes me the most depressed of all!@@user-d32658
@@user-d32658Japanese cars are fundamentally boring and very very safe. Completely different markets. I don’t get this video, German cars are sports and luxury cars made for going on the Autobahn and the track.
Same here. I've owned Toyotas and Hondas. Toyotas are easily my favorite cars and do exactly what I expect from them, that is, get my reliably from A to B, they rarely break down and when they do, you parts are very reasonably priced.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Life is too short to drive boring cars.
I used to own a VW golf, when one of the parts broke i discovered it was made of plastic. The same part in a japanese car is made of metal and lasts the life of the car. From then on ive only owned Japanese cars. To me reliability means more than prestige. A car that goes for years and years and years with 0 worries? That's my idea of luxurious
Golden words
What part broke exactly?
@@mrpeace3860 it was a part of the cooling system that connected multiple hoses and included a valve
@@mattduin7144 That's most likely the heater control valve. Those VW pipes are mostly out of plastic and are often not cheap to even buy.
@japanwatchconnection Bullshite responded to your call. It said hello
I did an internship in 2013 at a mercedes benz car dealer / workshop and was amazed how much plastic part are on these cars. Plastic clasps constantly broke and hat to be glued back on body parts. So when they say the made a new car lighter it basically means "we replaced as much metal with plastic as we could"
After enjoying and keeping my Mercedes 116, I had an excellent opinion of German quality however; bought my daughter a VW Cabrio while in school and it fell apart right before our eyes! The outside trim just fell off, the plastic interior faded and broke along with window regulators and the top was shot in 2 years!, Have stepped up and bought her 2 BMW's and both are just plastic nightmares inside the engine compartment. Door regulators gone in 50K miles and the dealers wanted $600 for 1 that I bought on the internet for 35 dollars. Inside the door every plastic clip broke and had to be glued together. Never again.
The ironic thing is that these cars are literally obese in terms of weight compared to older cars.
@@TheInsaiyan Which gets worse with all the hybrid and ev stuff
@@klugermensch5933 and especially as EV SUVs, heavy and punching a big hole into the hair on the highway and needing a lot of energy to move the thing, energy that mostly comes from fossil power from the energy grid into the EV Battery.
@@TheInsaiyan Thats because much strickter rules on Passanger safelty and also PEdestiran safelty. Bonnet design today is regulated by safelty for pedestrians not looks alone. For an example my 1993 Toyota Corolla Liftback coupe is roomier than a 2008 Liftback Prius 5 door. and it felt better sound insulated also. Drove a taxi prius for around 2 years.
"Planned obsolescence" is the name of the game. The manufacturers could not keep selling cars if they were so durable that the customers would not need to buy another one.
all these cars are made by computers these days, they know exactly how many miles/km the parts will last, they focus on the time the first owner takes to change cars, thats how long the parts will last
@@hondofitty - Exactly ! The manufacturers think of the used car buyers as the enemy.
@@hondofitty A bit unrelated but i had 2 identical samsung phones from 2013 , used in almost same circumstances , one started having screen issues with green lines and not turning on and in an unbelievable 1 week difference the second phone got the exact same defect, both phones work perfectly other than the screen and the cost to replace a now 10 year old screen (but when it broke it was more like 7) is the price of an equivalent entire phone. The only way it lasted that long was because their software wasn't fully updated, so it was fast and snappy while everyone I knew that updated it had freezes, overheating and worse animation freezes that even effected the ability to answer calls, the most basic feature. It's multi layered planned obsolescence.
Then why is Toyota the biggest car company in terms of value
driven by greed and capitalism
I live in the UK and drive mainly Honda and Toyotas. I love the design, performance, and particularly the refinement and interiors of German cars, and the heritage of engineering behind them. Unfortunately, what has happened is that manufacturers and their friends, the reviewers, have convinced us all that perceived quality is better than engineering quality, and the emphasis is now on appearance, and interior materials. Almost everybody I know with a German car (including my favourite Audi) has had issues with them. In my opinion, it's putting too many unnecessary systems and gadgets into them. That said, Lexus equip their cars well and the internal systems seem also to stand up to the test of time well.
Exactly this, even though it may not be as luxurious as the german counterparts lexus is probably the best option if you want luxury without the downsides of luxury.
You'll hardly ever have any problems and in the rare cases you do it won't cost you an arm and a leg to fix it, it's something you can safely bet it will last for decades.
Just don't do what my uncle did when his Mercedes became too much of a headache. He replaced it with a Jaguar.
@@billolsen4360 I love Jaguars, Bill, but I'm too much of a coward. I've been running Hondas and Hyundais for the past 20 years, and haven't had a single failure yet.
As a german automotive engineer I can say its not just their own choice, its also caused by a ton of regulation making the cars worse. Also managers and purchasing departments push for the cheapest options, making our products worse. The other big issue is the focus on unnecessary features and our current view of the number of features equal the luxuriousness.
Love my 90s Mercedes btw
Basically it's the top's fault that quality's declining, even purchasing dept are pressured to buy the cheapest material as possible. There's gotta be someone strong up there in the company that said, we are not going to sacrifice quality and will buy the best material for our product at their proper cost.
Japanese car manufacturers have to produce their cars to the same European regulations as German producers yet they've maintained extremely high quality / reliability and they've invested in latest technologies all while turning a profit.
124, 201 and 140 best Mercedes ever made 🙌
@@mochipii your sentiment is admirable and I agree but those at the top of any car manufacturer (or any corporation for that matter) are responsible to one group of people and that’s the shareholders.
If a CEO or any Exec does anything that fails to maximise operating profit they will be replaced immediately by someone else. In short, cars are built at the lowest possible price to be sold at the highest price the market will bear. The exception to that are rare one offs like the Toyota GR Yaris which was built at a loss to be an advertising vehicle for Toyotas motorsport profile in WRC.
W124 the best balance
Some brands need to realise that reliability is the most important aspect of luxury.
Buy Lexus then
Not Just brands, people need to, but they never will, not until they are forced to walk, hitchike or use public transport, because they can no longer afford to maintain their vehicle.
@@aygwmcame to write this comment
No it isn't
@@aygwm we did that 2 years ago and boy we were so WRONG. we still own a 2018 lexus that has been fair with 80k miles. Our 2022 gx460 was the biggest nightmare that left us stranded 300 miles from home. We lost alot trading it in but so far our (bad brand) vw atlas has taken us at least a whole oil change interval without giving us an issue. The lexus spent several weeks at the dealer and we were fed up and so was service. Engineers were Involved and we were offered a new Lexus. We said screw it. The bad brand car is cheaper and more comfortable anyways.
These companies today only care about making money for shareholders. Ferrari management was under the same pressure from its shareholders to increase the model range of Ferrari and produce a cheaper model to increase sales and profits. Ferrari said NO. They told their shareholders that the famous Italian brand was not going to be diminished in order to make a quick buck. Well done Ferrari!!
and then they made an SUV...
And now they have over a dozen models listed on their website…
Ferraris are the shittiest cars in the world when it comes to reliability, even a billion times worse than a 80ies Yugo or a 70ies russian moskvich.
Their Success is: They sell dreams, not cars. You want to rake in blonde bimbos? Humiliate yourself, buy a Ferrari, even if the dealers make you hop through 1000 loops.
Don't forget that Ferrari also treats their customers like crap. They pretty much ONLY care about their brand.
In the US German cars are seen as awesome, luxurious, and powerful, but also as endless money pits. They break down quickly and replacing the countless cheap plastic parts and other expensive components make them a subpar choice overall.
Before it was engineer driven now it's all about marketing and their shareholders. Planned obsolescence and perceived quality is now the norm.
Same thing everywhere, media(films, games) healthcare, politics, jobs.Monies is what system optimize itself
Hmm, that sounds distinctly like a symptom of toxic capitalism.
@@ironman8257 No lie. This is a problem everywhere like you said. People who have no idea how anything works keep becoming in charge of telling others what to do. Everything is falling apart because of it.
correctly said. The problem is mostly media which needs to show the surface of the materials but in reality they are cheap. Video editing skills increased and quality of the products are decreasing
@@luigi55125 The problem is capitalism. This is late stage. Eventually you’ll spend $1 million on something that is broken from the factory. Or pay a subscription for something that’s fully paid off, depreciated and even more broken.
German cars have been declining steadily since about the time of reunification. Instead of sound, basic design and metalurgy/materials, they became gimmick laden, under-tested, 200k throw away garbage. Their salvation has been that every other manufacturer has followed the same path....
What if German car brands take their manufacturing to China then China is taking Germany to school.
My golf mk4 367 000 km and still going in perfect condition
@@alem2412 What year is your Golf?
@@Embargoman 2002 with right service i swear it will reach 500k and i am planing not selling him at all
@@alem2412 Yet the main thing is to also check the VIN code as to most likely where your car is made.
So here is how this VIN Code thing works is on the dash board or by the side of the door.
So this is how it works the first digit is the number or letter of the country of origin of your car to say where is made.
1, 4, and 5. USA
2. Canada
3. Mexico
6. Australia
9. South America
M. Thailand
Z. Italy
V. France
W. Germany
S. UK
R. Taiwan
J. Japan
K. South Korea
L. China
Yet cars with the L as the first digit could outperform in quality of the ones that suppose to be made in the USA or Germany.
There's a reason used German cars depreciate so hard. Once that warranty has ended they are ticking time bombs.
The article pretty much nailed it. German vehicles are full of new tech and that means some ironing out of bugs and figuring out best practices (of manufacturing). There is a reason Honda and Toyota are so reliable. They wait until tech is mastered before they introduce it in their vehicles.
Mercedes = first with ABS, first with air bags, first with keyless entry, etc.
But the real push to the latest tech came in the late 90s when BMW started to do the same. Around that time, Mercedes also merged with Chrysler...and sacrificed some durability for profits. That is why late 1990s to 2010 was a bad time for Mercedes.
Tech is still a big thing with Mercedes/BMW/etc. and that means expensive repairs once out of warranty. Remember that cars depreciate with time/mileage...labor and parts DO NOT. That $100k German car will still cost like $100k German car when it comes time to service it.
A lot of tech in German cars is just useless fluff for bragging rights. ABS was helpful, keyless entry can have an argument made for it, same with airbags, but gesture control, scent sprayers, pop out door handles, and other things most people never would use are just things to break and give big headaches when they do.
My father had an old Toyota which he drove to Yemen. It was used in a war. The car runs the same, it had bullets fired at it, explosions happening near it. We replaced the tyres, windshield and a broken wiper fluid and clutch fluid tanks. That's all. The engine, chasis, axle, suspensions all are the same. Shows how great the build quality is.
You know the specific model and year ?
@@mr.sanford8588 Toyota hilux
@@TerrorBlade66 I would figure it would be one of those. LOL
@@timchamberlin9280 Not better. But they make simpler cars.
@@timchamberlin9280 Headlight wipers were mandatory, for a reason, to even be allowed to sell a car in Sweden in the 80's :)
So all cars had them here.
I was a big VW fan in the 80’s as a teenager starting with the bug, Scirocco, Ghia, and GTI (1983-84). When I got out of college and could afford to buy my first car was a brand new off the showroom floor 1991 GTI. Long story short it started falling apart right away. Sold it within 2 years and I’ve never purchased another VW and probably never will. I’m in my late 50’s now and have always told that story and directed people towards more reliable brands. Build a solid car that will last well beyond the payments and your customers will sell your cars for you.
Hey Dan, thanks for sharing your story with us. What brands did you end up going with after you sold your GTI? We're curious!
@@DWREV I'm not Dan, but I have a similar car history. I have driven Hondas since my last VW. I'm generally satisfied with Honda, but they're not perfect. A 2001 Odyssey had to have 3 transmissions.
the golf mark 2 gti was basically indestructible. here in Europe they are still driving around. without a new engine and with the first paint. I think you were just unlucky. or cheated by the car dealer
Same story here. as a teen I read all the auto rags C&D, R&T and Automobile. I was convinced that European cars were superior to North American and Japanese brands. Then I bought my first new car - a VW Rabbit (Golf everywhere else). Loved driving it - handled great and was fun to drive. It was terribly unreliable and cost a fortune to repair. In 4 years I drove it 100 thousand km and the repairs cost more than the purchase price. I'll cut it some slack - it was a 1974, the first. year for the Mark I in the US and I think the changes that had to be made to meet US regulations didn't help it. Now the theme around German cars in the US is great cars while under warranty, then dump it and be prepared to take a beating on depreciation unless you leased it.
I've had 1980 VW. Had them up to 1 million KM. And another one i sold at 680 000 km. Best car i ever owned.
Up until the early 2000s, my father wouldn’t even consider buying anything other than a mercedes. He finally swithced to Toyota (Land cruiser and a Rav4). I grew up yearning to buy my own mercedes, which are still very attractive, but was turned off by the irreliability issues that everyone talks about. I am now a loyal Toyota customer, although i still think that mercedes offers a better ride/luxury/design quality.
I agree with all but the part of Mercedes being better at luxury.
Luxury is defined as “the state of great comfort and extravagant living.”
How can something so unreliable bring you comfort?
I owned a Mercedes 1973 SLC automatic in the late 90s for 5 years. Fantastic build quality and was very reliable. Recently, i bought a Mercedes estate which is full of endless niggles and problems and the interior is plasticky and lacks refinement as well. Will buy Japanese next. Had a couple of Mazda's before and they were faultless and fun to drive.
If you can’t afford a brand-new German made car,
…you certainly can’t afford second-hand German made car.
People need to understand this.
I heard somewhere that to be financially able to get a used Mercedes car, you have to be able to afford a brand new one, but it applies to all German premium car makers, in the end
Thats just not true lol.
@@roarbahamut9866 It's a joke about how expensive parts and labor are on German cars.
@@EibarwomanYeah, as they say “if you can afford a monkey, you must afford banana too”
It’s not just reliability, it’s durability, longevity and most importantly the ability to maintain and repair them. My ;last two BMWs became uneconomic to repair not much past 100k miles. Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems, control and sensors, these so called luxury brands just become “Money Pits” to keep on the roads, it’s now cheaper to lease a new German car than buy a 5 year old secondhand one. Car design is now driven by sales and marketing, not engineers in my opinion, the quality doesn’t go past the cabin materials and driver controls, everything else is cheap, poor materials and not designed to last past the first lease contract.
You might want to try a Lexus or Acura, that's true luxury
This comment captures the essence of it👍
"Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems," To be fair, none of that is true. The TH-cam channel M539 Restorations is constantly doing those kinds of repairs on BMWs. A laptop with BMW ISTA software is required for coding modules.
Compare an old w126 S class to the new S class.. Old one is classy, drives like a tank, and looks timeless.. parts are still available. The new S class looks sissy and from far away you do not now if it is a Kia or Mercedes.. Good luck fixing the new S class.
As a German living in Japan, I got a Prius, and can only recommend going with Toyota as often as possible.
My experience in German cars goes back to my 1959 NSU Prinz, very simple, outright crude, but technically a masterpiece. Today i have a VW CC approaching 15 years of age, and 150k miles. Most have been highway miles giving the vehicle a chance to warm up. Its been very reliable, with the exception of a few minor electrical problems ( ie: the pushbutton parking brake/ hill holder combination, and blowing up headlight bulbs when actuating the fog lamps or high beams.) But, im really dreading the day when something major goes, because of the complex nature of the vehicle, and excessive use of not necessarily cheap plastic parts on major systems, ( ie; oilpan, intake manifold, pcv valve with oil separator, etc.) Additionally, special distinct tools are needed for these cars in many cases. Therefore, i drive carefully, and maintenance is a priority, as well as the knowledge of how to do certain repairs without the need of a shop. A bit of praying and keeping ones fingers crossed can't hurt either!
Mercedes of the past were designed and manufactured by the engineers and then the accountants figured out how much to sell it for. Now the accountants dictate how much to sell it for and the engineers have to design and manufacture it to that price point.
Correct. And now they are (like all other German cars) overpriced for what they are. In fact you could say that most cars from all over the world are these days!
True, very true
That's how they all work now. What will the market pay, and build to that.... its called commerce.
I do very light design work. And yes. They are "ALWAYS" trying to find the cheapest part to do the job, then when stuff don't act right. It's my fault.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 you are very right.
I was in the design world too and appreciate your comment.
Impossible deadlines, unrealistic expectations, impractical specifications, the whole lot with bells and whistles on top….at zero cost 😏
The biggest red flag is plastic parts in the engine bay. That’s unreliability at its peak. I mean how can you be so sure that the plastic in throttle body won’t snap under high pressure and temperature. That’s just one example. A few years down the line they might start making 3D printed engine blocks
In Toyota we still see a lot of metal components in the engine bay. This shows the level of respect for buyers.
@@dragospahontu still not the most reliable car brand :) Toyota also had massive callbacks
I found the non-engineer in the comment section. Plastics, in my opinion are bad due to their inability to be recycled. Other than that, Plastics are extremely strong and if they do not see crazy heat cycles, where they can warp, they do pretty well.
Also ALL manufacturers have been using plastics since the early 2000. I have several cars with nearly 200K miles with plastics and they are doing fine. I would prefer metal as when the car reaches its death, that metal compound can be recycled a lot better than a plastic part, which will not be reused and will live in a land field for eternity.
Toyota uses lots of plastics too.
@@HippasosofMetapontum my dad's 20 year old Toyota avensis has done hundreds of kilometers with no oil and a misfiring piston. Yes the damage is permanent but the car still got to its destination. It runs fine today. I don't think there are many cars from other brands that would cope as well as the typical toyota sedan in such a scenario.
@@dragospahontu why always toyota, a new honda also dont have that much plastic in the engine bay, it is like jap=toyota only 😅
When the first golf was launched, all service departments were issued with pocket magnifying glasses so when rust bubbles appeared they could tell the customer they were stone chips and not rust. Lying to the public has been endemic in VW for ever.
I am German. The last Passat 35i, 1.8 petrol, an 1989 I bought with 140t kms, drove it to 250 and my parents to 360t kms in cities, without any major replacements!!! Then the rust got it. I wont ever dare to buy a newer German car again.
so, you are telling me according to j.d. power that land rovers and jaguars and jeeps are more reliable than most german car brands is hard to believe. i am still amazed that apparently alfa romeo which is known for horrible reliability is more reliable and better quality than audi. also this list suggests many American car manufacturers are more reliable than toyota which probably has the strongest image of reliability in the world.
You have to remember that for the USA, German manufacturers produce cars in Mexico and the US.
Also, Italian cars have proven to be reliable across the board recently.
As Americans know, JD power surveys are nonsense. Pay for rankings, too. The cited survey is “initial quality” which could even mean someone is confused with infotainment operation.
But are German autos at the top under a more realistic measure? No
Yet the best selling Buick is made in China as to test grounds seems that China is outperforming Germany.
@@Embargoman This is your third post claiming China is building high quality cars. Are you a wumao?
@@Embargoman China will never outperform anything from anywhere. Because everything made in China has always been made poorly and to a price point. Hence why in less than 15 months it falls apart.
With my four cars Range Rover, Porsche Macan, Toyota Corolla and a 15 year old Nissan Micra, I do one thing, ignore the manufacturer service intervals and over service engine and gearbox, take and old fashion approach to regular check overs myself, whilst it doesn’t eliminate all issues they are reduced. Oh and the best car I ever owned 2008 Lexus RX450h, 400,000km fault free (but you all knew that)!
Good advice
id never buy german, or any other axis power country car......cuz i payed attention in history class.
@@jimmyhackers8980 Would you buy a car Made in China?
China is the new Germany!
@@Embargomanno cars in general for me :), i built my own ebike out of junk parts..... 60mph and 40-50 mile range.... i have 2000watts of solar on my roof, im sure some of it came from china at some point. so its probably just as bad.
Yes, I am sad to say that I don’t listen to my car’s manufacturer recommendation on their “life time” transmission fluid and “life time” engine coolant. Engine oil could also be “life time” but just a much short life time 😂
It's not just cars, it is also home appliances (made in Turkey and so on...)
The issue is obvious - they make a lot more $ repairing their cars than they do in selling them in the first place. So they made them lerss reliable (just able to pass the warranty) and of course the parts are either only available at the dealer (no aftermarket support) or they must be installed by the dealer and be "activated" to work. The line of cars going in for service at the local BMW and Audi dealers that I pass each morning is funny and tragic. The worst part is that VW is meant to be "budget German" and costs almost the same to maintain/fix as the Audis they share parts with.
I am German and I don’t buy German cars since almost 20 years. I only drive Japanese cars and my favourite brands are are Toyota and Mazda. I currently own a Mazda. My last caller was a Toyota celica and I had it from 1996 (built 1991) to 2014, and it never had an issue. My lads with German cars had to purchase 5 to 8 German cars in this time period
i have a volkswagen since, i have no idea. It now has nearly 0,8 million killometer on the "tacho", and its works still fine. You shouldt let you manipulate from unfounded news like that. if you dont like german cars, you are not a german. i could imagine, you also have a little affection to the lada.. havent you xd
I had 2 Months a Toyota Auris Hybrid station wagon.
It was long time rent.
After 2 weeks I called the rental company to take it back and give me something German or something with german roots (Skoda or Seat).
@@wolflarsen1900 production year?
LOL sure 5 to 8 Cars in that time 😂
Dude I drive an VW Polo built in 2001 and I have 0 problems
Same
I am an American that has purchased many cars over my time. I’ve had all from Ford, GM, Chrysler to Audi, BMW Mercedes and even Kia Honda and Toyota’s. Out all I’ve had, my Toyota and Mazda are by far the must reliable vehicles I’ve bought. In my opinion based on what I’ve had, the Japanese by far have superior engineering and quality. Both have over 200,000 miles with no problems outside of normal wear and tear (tires, breakers, bulbs etc..)
I own a 12 year old V6 Acura with over 100k miles. It has never needed a repair and the engine still runs like new. I expect to get 300k+ miles out of it if I choose to do so. My mechanic is always trying to buy it off of me.
They dont have superior engineering. But they use simpler solutions that are more reliable but doesnt perform quite as well.
@@martinsvensson6884 They definitly have superior engineering. Or if not engineering, at least superior build quality. It's a shame that all the companies in the world are ditching quality for profit margins and planned obsolesence.
@@norwegianblue2017 Honda also has a solid car. Now that they got away from timing belts (most models) and went to timing chains, there are bulletproof.
@@jayyoutube8790the timing belt v6 engines are known for being very reliable, not just the smaller engines
The jd powers survey is fundamentally flawed. It is not the complaints in the first year that matter, it is the percentage of cars built in a model year that are still on the road which expose the quality cars and the junk
yeah, i had to laugh when they said American cars were ranked the highest. They are clearly bought and paid for.
Friend bought a used Toyota years back. We laughed at them for buying a used Toyota, and, buying a Toyota. That Toyota RAV4 outlasted 3 new cars of his respective peers. 150k miles and the only issue was an exhaust replacement caused by undercarriage impact...he saya "you dont need a warranty for a Toyota, the cars badge _is_ the warranty!
German cars now are very expensive to maintain,parts are hard to come by,and installing them is a nightmare. Eg.Replacing a car battery on a BMW requires the computer to be reprogrammed. While on a Toyota the computer programmes itself,simply drive the car to reprogram it. My former college classmate had a VW Tiguan. The A/C compressor failed and cost more than $1000 just for the part. So he replaced it with a Japanese A/C compressor for less than $300. Works perfect.
Partly true… that’s true on cars made after the early 2000’s with German cars because of too much technology installed instead of paying attention to the quality.
I wouldn’t touch most VW’s with a 10 foot pole. That Tiguan is made in Pueblo ,Mexico. That’s why it goes wrong. The Mexicans are not known to build a high quality item apart from Tacos 🌮
@@jasonknight5863all the VW fanboys keep saying that but there is no difference in reliability from Mexican to a German VW. TH-camrs Humblemechanic and Deutsch Auto Parts have debunked that. The only reliable modern VWs were the ones equiped with the 07k and tdi engine that's it.........
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo we had a VW Toureg and when I would go in to get it serviced at the VW dealership. I’d would always see guys coming in looking for new parts at the parts counter. I’d make sure to listen to see what model it was for. It was always for the Jetta… all Jetta’s are Made in Mexico. Says it all really.
You cannot replace brake pads without the rotors. They are dreadful.
@@jasonknight5863 Same at Napa Auto Parts since I almost always shop there for replacement filters for my Toyota. When I saw the shelves for the coolant I wondered why is the newest coolant for VW's aka Pentofrost E $22 for a 1.5Liter bottle and Zerex G40 (VW calls it G12++) coolants are mostly gone and more expensive than most other types including for Asian vehicles. Turned out that VW cooling systems have a ton of problems. Many people rather go for something works for less money so they settle on the Zerex G40 coolant which is interchangeable with G13.
I have seen too many disassemble videos of German cars and engines by automotive vloggers around the world to still trust German quality. German cars look nice. But under the hood there's too much cheap parts and plastics. In fact I have banned all German brands from my purchase list. My last German car was a brand new Audi. When I opened the hood the day I picked the car up from the dealer, I could see rust on a few parts already even though the car was brand new out of factory. After 2 years a capital engine failure. Transmission was stuttering and kicking in traffic jams. I had to get a software update twice in order to not spin wheels when driving of a crossroad (unpredictable turbo peak). Toyota Lexus next, maybe Great Wall, Geely or Tesla.
That's what happen to Polo Vivo. Two years after purchasing the paint started to defected. They denied they are to beheld liable. They are pathetic.
It's in fact very simple. A colleague of mine always told potential customers: "do you want it to be modern and with a lot of electronics, or reliable". He is still right.
I don't understand why my Hudson is so underappreciated.
Tell that to Lexus
In BMW case since 2010+ there are not just electronics issues, there are issues with every single aspect of them.
Lies again? Grab Car HDB Paris
After retiring from the auto mechanics trade and the assembly line (I built fire trucks) I had a five year stint working at a popular auto parts store. Image-conscious people of limited means often purchased high end German luxury cars that were 10 to 15 years old with 150,000+ miles on them. Cars that originally sold for $80,000-$100,000 could easily be had for $10,000-$12,000 each. However, whenever the owner of one of these cars came into the auto parts store and asked for a typical usually high-end component, such as a starter, alternator, radiator, air conditioning blower motor, etc. I would type in the year, make, model, engine, size , and desired part. I would then turn the screen to the customer and just point at the price. The look on their face coupled with “ARE YOU CRAZY?!!!!” - Priceless!
Even french cars and some engines are better these days and that says a lot...
"Overengineered expensive money pits" . I 'm converted too to japanese cars.
@@MrSparklespring I am now in Airport Transportation driver. At 217,000+ miles on the original engine and transmission my 2013 Hyundai Sonata was my business vehicle and is now my run around town car. The only problem I had out of that car was the stereo head went cuflewie and Hyundai replaced it under warranty. I now have a 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander that is about to click over 95,000 miles. No issues to speak of with either vehicle.
There's a saying in the industry that you may buy a €100,000 car for €10,000 some years down the line but when you go to repair it it's still a €100,000 car.
When you get a 100000$ car expect to pay parts in proportion of that. Also when the car is old... People don't realize that.
my dad and my uncle have 30 year old toyotas with original transmissions and over 500K on the odo. my audi transmission just broke today, less than 10 years old, under 80k on the odo. so much for german quality
Respect to FW for spring this and calling it out. I miss quality German auto engineering.
The JD power list is hillarious to me. The fact that US is at the top and even japanese brands below says enough to me
It's hilarious. Everyone knows American cars are poor quality and unreliable. That's why we, European and Japanese consumers, don't buy them.
It is because they factor things as infotainment & electronic issues while the mechanical reliability metrics only take into account the period where the cars are new. Aside from build quality, the lack of sophisticated electronics in the 90s Japanese cars is the main reason they earned their reputation as "reliable". I seriously doubt that modern Toyotas with all-digital dashboards etc will last 20 years.
I agree 100% American cars are at the top of the list of most unreliable in the world. Wouldn't by anything but the truck from them. Cars and suvs are a waste of money, cheaply made. Pay attention at the gaps in between doors, no gap is the same dimension. This is something Japanese and European car manufacturers have dealt with a long time ago.
US manufactures had a massive come back. Investing in quality was the only way to compete. I am not surprised. German car manufacturers went crazy by letting the cookie cutter BWL graduates into the leadership seats.
ask any european about a list where mitsubishi is near jaguar and alfa romeo on the list, and you'll know how reliable that list is.
here's a better metric: the type of cars you mostly see on tow trucks, ie those that left you stuck on the road.
but also take into account that if everyone is driving buick, then buick will have most problems. because it's the only car on the road.
I've been a avid buyer of German cars for years, as was my family. My dad had a S500 in 1997, and still owns it today. It's bombproof. 600,000 miles and counting. My first German car was a 3 Series in 2005, It was great. Since then I've owned a 1 Series, an E Class and a Tiguan, all new and all had issues. The E class was a joke. Rusting doors at 18 months old. Whole new engine at 21k miles at a year old, rattles and creaks were always present. It wasn't worth the money. The 1 Series had a issue with a intermittent misfire that they couldn't fix under warranty, it also had a ECU failure a few weeks after the warranry expired. The Tiguan caught fire and nearly killed me, VW didn't care. My wife and I now own Lexus's. No problems, built perfectly and never putting a foot wrong. It's a shame, I loved owning BMW and Mercedes, but they are not worth the premium anymore. I never brought them for the bragging rights of owning luxury German cars, just that I wanted quality and dependability, they didn't deliver on those promises.
I was pinned with a 97 Camry for the last 20 plus years, it looks like it jumped the Grand Canyon and never broke once...never. I missed out on years of car frustrations and grievances.
I completely follow u. Im disgusted with my Beamer and BEamer/Merc in general these days. Greed kills.
@notfiveo which parts specifically are you referring to that's "cheap plastic" and a major cause of breakdowns on German cars. This sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about because Toyotas absolutely do NOT use more metal parts than German cars.
The number one reason why German cars seem unreliable to non-Germans is due to the attitude of German engineers. They expect everyone to follow the maintenance schedule and obey it religiously, and they engineers the cars to work with such. Toyota engineers their cars to be abuse by customers.
@@gamesguy the the Japanese stuff are more durable.
@@MrSamPhoenix nope, same plastic parts in a Toyota. The difference is Toyotas can function with looser tolerances.
thats interesting to hear. im living in germany and i see so many people driving a volkswagen and a bmw. i would never buy a german car like bmw or volkswagen. i will buy a toyota honda or mazda.
Here in Holland there was a large study of 1000 car owners to see which brands are most reliable.
Asian car brands were most reliable and had the least break downs. Interestingly Dacia was up there too.
Those brands were seen the least on the side of the road with a breakdown, even percentagewiss
Thanks for pointing this out. We'll be more judicious in our use of hyperbole henceforth!
I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad. We also liked VW a lot. Its shameful how bad VW and Audi have gotten. I hope these companies address these issues seriously. Right now me and my dad have a Honda Civic and a Mazda 3. Great cars.
What I have seen in the US is that newer German cars will incur a cost to repair that exceeds the car's value within about ten years. It is so much cheaper for parts and labor on American and Asian cars. American cars, especially, have come a long way in the past 10-15 years. Especially on the performance end.
You should by a Alfa Romeo 😍😍😍
@@Razby07 yep Alfa Giulia is cool
"I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad" Sorry to hear. 🙃 I prefer Alfa Romeo myself. If you are going to have a prestige car, do it in style I say! 😊 The Busso V6 is iconic!
Mazda 3, mine is 13 years old and has never faltered or let me down only the batteries have died and were replaced.
Very sadly, I feel like Lexus have almost become what Mercedes used to be in terms of quality. The problem is that I’m not very keen on Lexus designs so I don’t buy one. Instead I use a new Honda civic for the family and I drive a 1983 380SE.
Check out JZS147 and SC300 models..... Even older gs400 or LS models are proven.
W126 man🫡
Sounds like my neighbour; dissing the Rolls Royce Cornice, saying the quality have dropped in recent years, goes ahead and buys an 19 year old Kia.
Mazdas are very reliable and pleasing to the eye
2005 Lexus ES330. Got it at 182k miles. At 217k miles I had rehabbed the transmission as best i could with fluid changes but the damage was done. The previous owner never changed the trans fluid. Theres a drain plug and fill port! Sadly I could not save the car. There was mild engine sludge and the leather had dried out in the hot leather sun. It still cruised the highways really nicely with more than enough power. I ended up starting from much better position with a 2 year old Prius. This will be my last car purchase. After that I'm done. Hopefully autonomous cars are a thing in 7 years.
The mark 8 golf was VWs decline in my option. In the GTI, the fake carbon look tape is visible around the steering column, you can actually see the tape over-hanging
my first 2 cars where german but both had mechanical issues that the official dealer was not able to deal with due to the hassle and not feeling comfortable to not have a reliable car I switched to Japanese cars. maybe not as luxurious as the germans, but until now they have not failed me yet.
I drive a BMW E39 and its running beautiful. No strange noises, no cheap materials used inside.
Its golden. I would never trade it for a new BMW.
E39 was peak BMW, it is easy and cheap to repair and lasts forever. Don't get rid of that gem!
Yep. MY E39 has 228k miles and it's still going strong.
Psss my 1971 ford taunus has 700k kilometers still original engine. Completely rust free.
In 2015 i worked in call center for a second hand car parts store for about 9 months, all the calls i got through out my time there were for german cars (note to the reader: i got about 60-80 calls a day) and almost none for japanese cars no matter the year of manufacturing...that speaks volumes...
Might also be because of your customer base. That can either be the customers them selves prevering to call over online shopping. And the parts you guys supplied at the time. A broad assortment of German parts will get you those customers
@@marnixkamminga8083 COPE 😂
There might be a reason for that: More customers with german cars than japanese cars.
amen
To be honest I really wanted to have a German car myself as a German
But sadly the Simple Cars that were Produced are not longer simple or reliable or cheap
It went from Simple to Complex in a rapid manner from the 70s to the 90s
As of Today I drive a Hyundai because they sure are more reliable then any German car.
Simple and a Hint of Technology to assist me in Driving on the Highway.
Skoda fills those requirements, there's so many of them in Luxembourg and Belgium its obscene. Its THE cheap car around here.
@blanco7726 only Skoda I would buy are VRS variants as they have unique engines
But the rest and normal ones have all VW engines
An interesting, if short, video.
Not unlike the comments below, my experience with Mercedes has been mixed, mostly riddled with small problems (noisy passenger window, faulty driver door side mirror, noisy front suspension...). Recently, I switched from a C class to a Volvo XC60. The difference in perceived construction quality is astoundingly in the Volvo's favour. The Volvo is also surprisingly more comfortable.
daily drive volvo 940 1995 all of 3 k invested. people try to buy it off me all the time
I remember how mortified I was when my mom bought her fully loaded 2017 Jetta and the interior was cheaper than the 2003 Jetta I’d had in high school. The screen is all that’s important in new cars
Yes and also the first thing to be outdated also. I am glad my old banger has no screen but my phone screen.
bro what do you expect from the cheapest German manufacturer?
The main problem with German cars (and in particular BMW and Mercedes) stems from the fact that they use complicated and innovative engineering, as pointed out in the video. This has always been the case, with Mercedes vehicles back in the early 70's for example sporting fuel injection, overhead camshafts, 4-wheel independent suspension & disc brakes etc as standard features, while vehicles from the US & elsewhere where still back in the stone age comparatively with their carburettors, pushrods, solid axels and drum brakes.
Now this in itself isn't necessarily a problem if all the individual components that make up these complicated parts and assemblies are of high quality, however nowadays many of the most basic components have been cheapened in order to save a few cents here & there in production costs, resulting in these complicated parts and assemblies failing both predictably and on a regular basis, resulting in huge repair costs. Modern BMW's for example are notorious for oil leaks due to the installation of poorly designed seals of poor quality into the heart of these complicated and expensive parts and assemblies; these cheap substandard seals are not fit for purpose and will always fail after a relatively short period of time, usually shortly after the end of the warranty period has been reached.. Another example is Mercedes using cheap hydraulic hoses on their self-levelling suspension systems in recent decades; the hoses burst after a few years of use, however cannot be simply pulled-off and replaced for a few bucks as they are built into the assembly itself; the entire integrated suspension strut assembly must be instead replaced, costing thousands of dollars for each unit (of which four are fitted to each vehicle). This is the sole reason for the huge depreciation in values of used Mercedes & BMW vehicles in particular (and most European makes in general); a vehicle that cost well over $200K new is often worth only $20K or less after 9 or 10 years due to the huge cost of replacing all these expensive components that will inevitably fail around this time.
Of course, this kind of thing is common across most manufacturers nowadays however the difference is that luxury marks like BMW and Mercedes charge a premium for this perceived "superior German quality" which in reality no longer exists, and the substandard replacement parts are then also triple the price of other makes due to being "quality German parts", which they are in fact not. So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses.
Excellent explanation
I believe the German auto industry has gone about complicating the living daylights out of their cars, much to the chagrin of the owners who have to deal with their cars when the trouble codes start mounting. (How many computer modules does a car REALLY need?)
On the other end of the spectrum, look at how many air-cooled VWs are still running today...mine included. The Beetle was a car without pretense, and its beauty lies in its simplicity, and slow-but-steady changes over its 65 year production run. I'll keep my Super Beetle, thank you.
"So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses."
Workers and the State of Saxony have seats on the board making those decisions.
That's an excellent summary! If only the parts used were of high quality, it would do wonders for their reputation. BUT Mercedes, BMW and Audi vehicles sell (or lease) very well any way, so why should they increase their costs and decrease their profits? You can see why they have no incentive to bother to increase component quality.
@@TassieLorenzo with chinese evs comming they will have to.
Some time ago I read a quite interesting article about how car manufacturers want to make money nowadays.
Basically it had to do with planned obsolescence, or the article made a parallel with razor blades.
Razor blades' manufacturers usually sell the first package quite cheap and then they charge you a fortune when you need new blades
But at that point they have you locked in with their product so you are going to buy new expensive blade .
Car manufacturers do the same, they now that if they sell a car for less they are going to sell more of it but they don't want the car to run forever, whener something brakes down because iy was supposed to last x kms they are going to sell you end expensive soare part and cash in on it.
It’s all about money, of course. It’s always about money. The parts are expensive. They’re made so only the dealers can program the computer systems. Even a simple oil change is made to sound like a major service. They are very greedy and that’s the bottom line.
This is quite true. When I was a child Mercedes was a brand of absolute quality; recently in my country there have been reports of Mercedes having to be returned owing to shoddy quality (and for many years Japanese brands have higher resale value)
In America you can get a used BMW dirt cheap but it's gonna be really expensive to keep it running. Some people buy them and drive them to death like you used to do with Chevy Chevettes.
@@missano3856Were Chevettes expensive to repair? Or were you only comapring the tendency of poor people to buy them and run them until the wheels fall off?
They were pretty basic cars so I can't imagine a new alternator or water pump was very expensive. I knew a guy who took a Honda civic and put an outboard boat motor fuel tank on the roof instead of replacing the fuel pump.
My son is a car mechanic for several years, he showed an engine from WV that used a lot of oil. .
He showed the oil rings on the pistons that they consisted of 3 different materials on one and the same ring, different materials expand differently when heating and cooling and therefore it is like a timed "bomb" until these rings break and a fresh engine suddenly consumes a lot of oil!
First day off the lot in a Volkswagen we had a dash light warning lol. It was the effing gas cap...
I've had a mix of german and japanese cars; Volkswagens and Mazdas. My Volkswagens always had problems (one assembled in Pueblo, MX, and the other in Wolfsburg, DE) and it's part of the experience. I'm not sure if the build quality is necessarily bad, but engineering often drives problems like choice of switches and regulators. The front fenders on my 2009 GTI rotted out surpringly early (worse than my Mazda Protege). My GTI had a DSG box and it was the main reason I got rid of it. I'd still consider a Volkswagen, but I have to wait a few model years before they sort out their issues. With a German car, you really need a warranty. I don't think American cars are much better though, and Korean cars feel like excellent products out of the bag but are fairly disposable after 12-15 years.
All of my Mazdas on the other hand were almost flawless. They all have very thin sheetmetal and paint, and their corrosion resistance is still to this day a little subpar, but otherwise they are some of the best built vehicles I've ever had the pleasure of driving. My current 2014 Mazda3 has 150k km and runs like the day I took delivery almost 10 years ago and it was part of the very first batch of its generation. Mazda did it right the first time. I'd never take that chance with a Volkswagen.
And lastly, the fun-to-drive aspect of German cars has completely evaporated. They all feel like insulated video games now, even cars like the GTI and BMW M-cars. So there's no more motivation to going the extra mile in getting it to run right; it's not even fun anymore. The Japanese still have interesting and fun products with excellent reliability. It's hard to go elsewhere.
You nailed it on the 'fun' part. German cars are leaden and sludgy, like driving through an inch of treacle.
absolutely agreed with the fun part. i daily drive a 2010 N16 Sunny that is based on a 2001 car platform architecture, got to drive a 2017 Golf TSI from a friend of mine. The steering wheel feel and feedback was hands down the worst steering feel out of any car i have ever driven. And since i live in a shithole and car reliability is compulsory, his VW is already falling apart.
A lot of The engineering also goes into not being serviceable. If it brakes don't fix it. (Buy another One)
Mazda 6 diesel (2015) was a complete money pit! for me. I think cars in general are becoming more unreliable due, in large part, to planned obsolescence.
I bought a VW Polo TSI thinking of the German reliability reputation of the past. Boy I was so wrong, and finally realized that reliable German cars were those in the 90s, not in 2010..
Dump the VW and went back to Toyota instead.. VW's reputation is falling into the drain in Southeast Asia market..
90s design but 2000s built is best imo. mk4 golf, B5/C5 VW/Audi :P And even then don't get more than 4 cylinders.
German cars generally were well made a few decades ago...but then they decided that they could just sell name brand status at really high prices with cheap low quality. And so far it has mostly worked. Many are turned off my it...but others only care about the status and will change their cars in 5 years anyways.
it'll definely scare some customers off because the resale value will drop very quickly. like I would never buy a 10yo jaguar or a range rover knowing their reliability
They lost the plot. Over two decades I had purchased four 5 series sedans in a row. One day I was presented with a $2500 bill for a headlight. Are you kidding? Then you look around at the $25MM dealership, yup, they need putzes to pay for this Taj Mahal. Brand destroying BS. BMW used to be a car guys car, small dealerships where the owner would be heading out to the local track on the weekend. They didn't keep it real, sneezed all the little dealers out and now its just overpriced BS tripping. Haven't bought one since that headlight incident.
They made a great car but forgot the customer also expects from a premium car quality, longevity and reasonable repair costs/total cost of ownership
One issue, is that German autos are not designed to be easily repaired. I have owned two successive Audi’s and have close friends with BMW’s and Mercedes.
Simple repairs can require a complete disassembly of the entire front end, just to get to a $15 part. This leads to more shop time - $$$ - and more opportunities for other systems or components to fail.
That's because low center of gravity "fun to drive". Also fit all the mass inside the wheel base "fun to drive".
Haha, at least you don't own a Subaru where pulling an engine is pretty much a standard affair for any engine related repairs.
That's not just limited to German cars anymore these days most modern cars are very challenging to service.
Correct, they are designed to be quickly and easily assembled in the factory.
The truth is they never were any better than cars from other countries.
I wouldn't mind the drop in quality of the price would drop as well.
Over Engineered and cheap parts. Period.
Keep cars simple! It’s a machine for transportation. Nothing more. Why does every vehicle nowadays need to be a condo on wheels? Just causes so many problems.
It’s a cyclical phenomenon. Brands putting out new products to generate sales, consumer are trained to change a new phone every year, or a new car every 3-4 years. Building a car that lasts for 20years is not appreciated by the market.
Mercs started losing quality after the w124 model. I know of quite a number of owners wouldn't sell their 124s for the price of a new entry level mercedes of today
Nothing better than 123!
@@Cozzera Yes. A W140!
W126, R129.........W201........The glory days of Mercedes........and many are still on the road 30-40 years later
@@michaelorekyeh6431 had a W201 myself that somehow still ran and drive until a Jeep took it out
Even the quality of materials from the 123 seem better and have lasted longer than more recent models. Unfortunately while Toyota (and Lexus) and Honda went upmarket in quality and reliability, Mercedes that had the game to themselves went down. I really hope they get it back again and become "Engineered like no other car in the World"
I bought a 20 year old, Lupo, and at the same time my friend bought a brand new VW,. In the three years since , my Lupo has never let me down and my friend’s VW breaks down constantly. It’s also very expensive to repair, so she recently got rid of it and bought a Honda.
She did well…but I’m curious why do you say Lupo and than VW…Lupo is VW and her VW is what…Lupo?
@@zdenekkindl2778 sorry, I couldn’t remember what the name of her VW was. It had 3 rows of seats
Brand new VW is on warranty and has zero cost in money to repair for the owner.
I wonder what issues your friend had with the car.
That's why it's called a vee trouble you
@@tombassman I think it's called the VW Sharan if I'm not mistaken. It's like a plus-sized Golf I think, but now discontinued in favour of more SUV production.
Here in Mexico people is absurdly obsessed with VW cars (seat too). True is that, those cars in the 90's or so were very reliable, as an example the old beetle was produced until mid 2000 I guess. Bulletproof but then, when VW group expanded, I think they've lost a lot of quality. A friend's dad working at VW factory told me that made huge cuts in order to reduce production expenses, those cutting at the end came from quality. In the other hand Japanese cars were working in improving their quality standards and well, market here is changing a lot. Like 15 years ago you used to see German cars everywhere right now the market is split even with korean and chinese cars.
As a German, this is true. Before I needed to change my timing chain every 300.000 km. Now with modern cars I need to change the timing chain every 100.000 km! That’s nothing!!
Also the plastics are getting cheaper and weaker.
Had a Mercedes rental car in Germany in 2001. It was beautiful, only had 4,000 miles on it. Drove it from the airport, stopped for lunch. When I tried to drive away after lunch, there was a "DO NOT DRIVE - BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE" message. They brought me a different Merc. It had a panel on the door that kept falling off and landing against my leg. Pretty much convinced me to never buy a Merc.
In a Renault, a slightly low brake fluid level will trigger a "BRAKE SYSTEM FAULT" when driving on an incline even though the brakes work perfectly fine. (This was an older model where the brakes were still manual-hydraulic, not brake-by-wire where the ABS system activates the brake and the brake pedal is electronic.) The actual fault was just a leaking (low quality) seal causing a slow brake fluid leak and hence the fluid to slosh away from the sensor when driving on a hill. Sometimes too much sophistication in the electronics can cause erroneous fault codes, I think. I can see how someone who didn't know how hydraulic brakes work could be startled by the error message.
@@TassieLorenzo Still losing brake fluid cause potential danger in long term. in one day you may find that in literally hard and painful way.
@@KrotowX I replaced the leaking clutch line dampener later, it's a common fault on those Meganes (2.0 F4R turbo). The seal on the dampener perishes and causes a slow leak. I did so by replacing the clutch line with a braided line (on the Megane, the clutch shares the same reservoir as the brakes, hence the brake fault message due to combined reservoir). Though in hindsight if I could have found the right fitting to cap off where the clutch dampener attached to the factory clutch line that would have worked too and been cheaper than replacing the entire clutch line. 🙂
@@TassieLorenzo Wow. I applaud to people who find ingenous way how to lose brakes and clutch in one go 😀
@@KrotowX "Because French". To clarify, the leak on these Megane RS and Megane GT models is a very slow leak. There is still more than enough fluid in the reservoir to operate both systems, the fault message triggers just when driving on a hill where the fluid sloshes away from the sensor. I topped the reservoir up at the first opportunity and ordered the parts for the repair.
I feel like the same thing happened at the same time with the Swedish car industry. My family owned nothing but Volvos from the 1980s until 2011. When we bought our first Volvo designed under Ford, it was an expensive, unreliable, piece of garbage that turned us away from the brand. Under Chinese ownership, the products have only gotten more expensive and even less reliable. My family switched to Honda: the spiritual successor of old Volvos in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing. Can you tell me when the Volvos began to be designed by Ford? My 2003 V70 seems ok but when did things change?
Kind like what happened to Saab when GM got more control of them.
After 30 years of Peugeot, I will probably switch to Honda or maybe Mazda.
I have a MK7 golf 2.0TDI KOMBI ...i find id quite reliable(5years of ownership 178.000 km) the problems are minimal ... easy to live with, fun when it has to and when i look at the MK8 golf and all the sister cars come with it with all the touch screens i see less quality, especially i miss the buttons and knobs.
I drive a early 2000s Mercedes. Thing is still built like a tank, absolutely zero issues so far... I do agree that, in general, quality of products has just gotten worse due to the pressure to sell sell sell with more and better features each time. Nothing is made to be repaired, they just want you to use for a while and replace. It's criminal against our planet...
I got myself a BMW E36 as a first car and after 4 years of ownership yes it needs its repairs from time to time but they are CHEAP and after all those years they are well deserved. My dad's VW Tiguan is another story. Not to mention the feel of building quality and driving experience. Instead of those factors improving in a newer car they declined noticably.
Well the difference is that the BMW E36 was Made In Germany back in the 1990’s when BMW actually made high quality well put together cars that lasted a long time. Then BMW in the early 2000’s started getting smart and thought they would give themselves bigger year over year profits by making more poorer quality cars with more plastic parts which meant higher profits for the dealerships because they had to be brought back to fix them way more often.
I’m not surprised about the VW Tiguan they are made in Pueblo Mexico as are most VW’s that they sell in the U.S apart from the Golf GTI. That’s the only one they still make in Germany 🇩🇪. The only one from that company I would touch.
Ya, I have an E39 with 228k miles and it has been great car. Yes, it's needed work from time to time but once you get away from the dealers, there are mechanics that can keep it up at a reasonable price.
My father drove Mercedes diesels in the 1980s. those things were tanks and probably could still run today had he held onto them. unfortunately they realized there's more money in making cars that don't last as long.
And then they say they care about the environment. Seriously, did they ever think that unreliable cars are worst?
Germany no longer has any top-flight universities.
What happened is they caught up with the rampant hyperconsumerism. What does it matter how reliable a car is past warranty if the owner changes the car by that point bc it wasn't even their property- it was on a lease like majority of new German cars "sold".
We're in the age of planned obselecence and disposable commodities. My grandma's old Soviet washing mashine still works and it only needed one part changed in the last 20 years. My uncle's E38 still runs like clockwork and all he does is basic maintanance. I have an alarm clock my dad was using in his 20's and it still works after 40 years and all it needed was one transistor a year ago bc of a power surge we had.
Things used to be made to last but that isn't proffitable enough. Companies need us to continously buy new stuff so they made it last less.
Nearly everything is made to milk you for every last penny you're worth. We're cattle to be worked to death and made to spend money on stuff.
That's also why there is this massive push for subscriptions everywhere- ideal customer is one that doesn't own anything and continues to spend.
Thankfully there are still companies that do make products that last. In automotive space it's brands like Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc.
I own a 2015 car that has recently surpassed 100k km. Headlights are starting to get foggy. A piece has broken off the driver’s seat. A piece of “chrome” trim came loose and got lost some time somewhere, the tiny infotainment screen looks extremely dated and works worse and worse every time I buy a new phone…
Planned obsolescence is clearly showing. And things have only gotten worse since my car was made.
Future looks grim for quality. And prices only go up and up!
I can pinpoint the moment the German car industry began its downfall: The advent of electronic assistance systems and software. Over the years, I've driven all kinds of cars - first Japanese (Nissan) back in the 90s, then BMW and ultimately, since almost 14 years now, different models of Volkswagen (6y Polo, 6y Touran, now ID4). I always had a lease for 3 years, so every three years I got the latest model - so I could experience the evolution first hand. The first problems appeared in the Touran. It was the first car I got that featured advanced assistance systems and from the start there were some problems here and there. At first not very often, but then the next generation of the Touran arrived an it got noticeably worse: Sensors sometimes gave of false alarms, cruise control sometimes just decided not to work, sometimes for days. The car entertainment system crashed a bit more often than before. But all in all, most of the time the car still worked okay.
Enter the ID.4. This is no longer a classic car. This is a computer on wheels. These types of cars live and breathe software. And this time, VW has ultimately proven that they can't do software if you put a gun to their heads. The software was riddled with bugs, the first iteration of the 12V battery was not powerful enough to reliably power all the electronics, so they had to recall and replace it. The OTA updates that were promised did not yet work, so during the recall they also updated the software to 2.4, finally enabling OTA capability. In theory - a few days ago, they announced that they stopped OTA because of too many problems and all people stuck on version 2.x would be contacted by their dealers for a manual update (but, hey, that's a lot of cars and the car to be in the shop for a couple of days so, yeah, that might take a while). And all the people who already got the 3.0 update, but whose cars were initially delivered with 2.x, have to go back to the shop as well - oh, but that may take even longer. I can't see myself get another German car after this experience - at least not a Volkswagen.
To be honest, digital assistance nightmares aren't only German car nemesis. Other cars with a lot of digital sensors may fail in even worse way. At 2000-ies friend had weird issues with his brand new Renault premium class car (I believe it was Vel Satis). He noticed very often empty tire warnings where tires wasn't empty. Tires was fine. Later turned out that cause was pressure sensor faults. In this car sensors are built in wheels - he luckily was able to get all four wheels replaced in dealer service on warranty.
Overengineering is strong in German software development too. Thus user interface in German software often is something completely different in comparing with UI design principles elsewhere. Even copy/paste with Ctrl-C/Ctrl+V will be put on completely different key shortcuts. Had very awkward experience with German car part manufacturer catalogs and SAP in this aspect. No surprise why VW had so much problems with UI in their ID.x cars.
Get a w124 or w126 mb
Alle Deutschen machen denselben Fehler: Hier Mal ne Erklärung für dich, damit den nimmer machst.
since 2014, aber for 14 years.
Also since wird angewandt, wenn man ein Datum, ne Uhrzeit oder Dergleichen hat. Since 2014, since his birth, since Buddha was born, since yesterday...
For wird angewandt um einen Zeitraum zu beschreiben. For hours, For 10 minutes, for the past year, forever...
@@Kivas_Fajo Und da sind sogar noch mehr Fehler in dem Text, die Du alle übersehen hast, Schlaumeier. Wenn Du sie noch findest, darfst Du sie gerne behalten. Get a life.
@@Kivas_Fajo Erst since zwei, dann since drei, dann war alles for bye.
The proliferation of plastic under hood components such as, inlet manifolds, coolant pumps , fuel rails and so on, would have been unthinkable in the 1980s.
Plastic inlet manifold is hilarious tbh. Plastic cylinder next, need a new one every 5K along with the plastic brake discs.
Sometimes plastics are stronger than metals even if it seems counter intuitive.
To be fair many plastic parts on my bmw are perfectly fine despite being 20 years old. Its often resonable to replace a metal part with a plastic part that weighs a tenth. I agree with you however on the use of plastic in critical components like water pumps.
@@traubengott9783 Plastic parts might be more cost-effective and durable like steel in same time. But it heavily depends from where they are used. In locations with high temeperature and/or direct sunlight presence they often melt or become britle thus fail much earlier than metal parts. Audi TT water pumps are one of such examples.
Plastic replacing metal on engines, replacement of parts like oil filters on top of engines right next to alternators, unlike having metal tube attachments for hoses, and having oil filters low and securely fastened to the engine block are bad things.
*At the exact moment (**5:08** onwards) quality of past cars were mentioned ------ they zoom in on the W124!*
*WHAT AN UNDISPUTED LEGEND!!!*
I remember how many years ago I got into one of the first examples of the electric Golf 7 and while I was driving, the onboard computer suddenly read a message that it needs an oilchange. Excellent stuff 😂👍
This is hilarious😂
But I realize that no negative review on Porsche has been made so far.
@@ericndungu2810 I was telling my girl. The only "reliable" German car is Porsche. I don't think I ever heard one in real life sounding horrible. Then again. Porsche owners probably take care of their vehicle very well compared to lets say an average Benz owner.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 People also expect Porsches to be expensive so they can probably afford more quality materials and production. A Cayman is the cheapest Porsche, and costs about the same as the most expensive 2 series.
the volkswagen golf VII was awarded the "european car of the year" award in 2013, as well as the "world car of the year award" in the same year. it also received the "US car of the year award" in 2015. this was all due to the impeccable quality and driveability of a car I myself have also owned - with zero complaints. the volkswagen golf VII was the last of the great VWs.
@japanwatchconnection not the one I had in europe wasn`t.
Quality is not by default in German cars and the problem of increasingly defective German automobiles is exacerbated by adding more software and electronics which multiplies the number of glitches.
Looks like Made in China 2025 be in process China surpass Germany in quality.
an equivalent Japanese car has the same number of tech and features than a german car ... meanwhile even better infotainment sometimes but still Lexus is the most reliable brand right now.
Bs excuse
@Phillip Banes Probably because they don't pay software developers well (when we compare them with other countries, like the UK, Switzerland, etc.).
Over Engineered and cheap parts. Period.
When removing plastic covers in the engine compartment to replace spark plugs recently on my 2016 VW Jetta 1.4 Turbo with 50,000 miles, I was surprised at how easily plastic tabs break off, requiring replacement. I also noticed previous damage to intake tubes from VW dealer oil change technicians who removed them to check the air filter for example, and I replaced those tubes also. The care runs and drives exceptionally well, one does not notice the turbo, only the instant throttle response, very smooth ride, yet nice handling, but concerned how the car will hold up with age. Not fair to compare to Mercedes, but I have owned or own W124, W126, and W140, from years 1986 to 1998 and when something has to be disassembled on those cars, even on the 190,000 mile car, you can put it back together properly as if nothing happened (I am a former Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz technician).
If u remove an engine part today, you expect to break when u reassemble it.. not built tough anymore..
Older BMW and Mercedes were better from a build and quality perspective before loading up complex computer screens. They also had a cleaner look. I hate the new garbage put in cars today that decreases reliability, increases repair costs and frequency.
I got my first car in 2022, I wanted a luxury car, but I know how unreliable German ones are, so I opted for Acura. Very happy about that choice!
I grew up blue-collar in the US. At that time, a German car (especially a Mercedes) was the ultimate status symbol known for its high engineering standard. I worked hard and became successful, and in the early 2000s, I purchased a Mercedes sedan. Unfortunately, that was a mistake. The engine would balk with heavy acceleration, and the quality control was atrocious. I had electronic display panels replaced multiple times, and very rudimentary items like two door handles and the cigarette lighter literally disconnected from the car. Repair and maintenance costs were through the roof, and the dealer always seemed to find an additional expensive repair when I brought the car in for anything, including an oil change. After a few years, I had had it with German cars and sold the Mercedes. What did I replace it with? A reliable Honda that my kids still drive today.
Sadly the late '90s and early 2000s were the worse time ever to buy a Mercedes. Their then CEO Jurgen Schrempp had embarked on his mad DaimlerChrysler project and started cost cutting everywhere. The W220 S-Class and W210 E-Class were the worst cars Mercedes every built in terms of quality. They had poor paintwork and rusted, while their interiors were loaded with cheap plastics. I called Schrempp the man who made millions for Mercedes, but lost billions!
The problem is you bought the Mercedes in the beginning of their worst era. The mid 90s they started going downhill. In a matter of fact the real last Mercedes was the W126 till 1991 and W124 till maybe 1994.. After that they started looking and feeling like sissy cars with ugly designs like the W220 , W204, GLK-Class , CLA class, etc....
I would say that the W123 and W124 Mercs were the best and then they just went down hill
You were fooled twice by advertising, the first was The American Dream which doesn't exist and the second was that German engineering is superior. There's wonderful advertising in the US - world leading, in fact.
When I was a student I had a job as taxidriver in the Netherlands. We drove Mercedes 200 D. The quality was legendary. The feel of quality also. Everything was build to last for ever. Even with the daily abuse of our drivers the cars easily did 500.000 km and more.. I think it was one the best cars ever made..
You think 500,000 k’s is something great?! I have news for you! Australian Ford Falcon 6 cylinder petrol/ lpg Taxis are renowned to do 1 million kilometres without an engine rebuild.
Lexus LS400s do 2million KM easily with first engine and transmission.
@@cteez91912 million on a tranny is a bit of a scretch 😂😂
500.000 is not that much for a Merc as a taxi. A 6K Euro Dacia Logan from 2005 can go 700.000 with the original engine and gearbox. Mind you only the 1.4l MPI version :D
Apparently no one talks about the consequences that the increasingly restrictive anti-pollution regulations, and the quest for very high efficiency engines have for the industry. R&D was greatly reduced, factories are always running from behind the regulations. Regardless of the reliability listings, the reality is that ALL brands are having problems. A clear example of this is the failed high-pressure direct fuel injection, another the failures in the low-tension piston rings, another the ultra-light oils (which added to the direct injection liquefies the oil after a few thousand km) . Brands like Toyota have problems with high oil consumption.
German engineering was always way more complicated than required except the original VW Bug. They will use 4 times as many parts than others and be proud of the Junk
Another contributing factor is the product cycle that is getting shorter and shorter, while the portfolio is getting wider and wider. How many models does BMW have in 1980s? 4. In 2000s? 11. Now? Lost count. While a model development in the olden days takes quite some years from early design phase until final testing, current cars are developed within fractions of that time. Yes, computers and other tech helps to accelerate but still lot of shortcuts are made.
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