Planned obsolescence. They literally design the product to last just about as long as the factory warranty. Plastic parts everywhere and an 'apple like' approach to repairability. Thats why the Japanese manufacturers outsell them (atleast outside Europe)
And in the past, planned obsolescence wasn't as easy because computer simulations weren't as accurate or accessible, so manufacturers played it safe and often 'over-engineered' components to avoid damaging their reputation. Now they can accurately tailor their components to last a certain amount of time.
Well, the other thing is it's way more expensive to fix whatever on german cars (unless VW) than other not luxury brands from other parts of the world. If parts are cheap people will fix the cars for a lifetime, when the parts are expensive and ir requires specialized mechanics is better to let it died sooner, the fix worth more than the car sometimes.
@@mapachem4828 At one point, BMW engineered parts of their drive train to use a ridiculous combination of numerous bolts and screws for disassembly, completely unnecessary. It's like designing your wheel to have 16 lug nuggets, with 8 pairs, each having different sizes and design lol
Even Toyota and Honda are beginning to do a lot of the same BS. Toyota’s Hybrids aren’t nearly as reliable as people say they are. Neither are Honda’s. Honda’s got many issues with their 1.5t’s in the Accords, mostly blowing head gaskets. The thermostats are coming stuck open or closed from the factory in the new Tacomas. So it isn’t all fine and dandy unfortunately even with the JDM manufacturers and I’m a HUGE Honda fan.
@@madmikesch2453 I am from Serbia. We have about 2 months of snow in winter and they put salt and grit on the road. But there are still many old Mercs driving around.
I am Japanese born in 1974. My grandfather owned a 1973 w116 Mercedes. Compared to the Japanese cars of that time, I loved it for its perfect ride comfort and lean and elegant appearance. I think the Japanese thought that Mercedes at the time would be able to drive high quality forever if the parts were properly replaced. Golf and bmw were similarly deified. I want the old German cars back.
Years ago I worked as a mechanic at a dealer that sold Mazda, Volvo and Mercedes cars. The mechanic that worked on the Mercedes called them quality junk and that was in the late 70's early 80's when they were still considered quality automobiles. The Mazfa and Volvo cars were actually better.
Mercedes after the mid-90s clearly shows the company's profit-first attitude. Incorporating unnecessary gimmicks that did not contribute to the improvement of essential quality, the price was raised, and the design was adapted to the tastes of novices and playwrights. My favorite Mercedes is a first-class car with tradition and legend, not a frivolous luxury item. It seems that the Land Cruiser, which is active in the wilderness of Africa and Australia, has more elegance than Geländewagen.
I am German and I am a mechanic. The last german Car I've owned was a 1991 BMW 525i. That car was almost indestructable. Sold it with almost half a million Km, just because it was to uneconomical. Means it was a car for long distance driving, which I do not have anymore. With newer BMWs I made the experience that you have to take apart half of the car just for minor repairs and don't dare to touch anything that is made of plastic in the engine bay. Especially coolant lines or flanges. After just a few years they get so brittle that they will break easily
Im from the US and owned the same car and a 7 series from the same generation. I had to get rid of them because I moved but you are absolutely right, indestructible cars. Both had 400k KMs on them and ran just fine, I met people though that had over 800k KMs on similar models. I never had to put money into them. Now my 2005 325i.. that is a different story..
I used to own a VW golf, when one of the parts broke i discovered it was made of plastic. The same part in a japanese car is made of metal and lasts the life of the car. From then on ive only owned Japanese cars. To me reliability means more than prestige. A car that goes for years and years and years with 0 worries? That's my idea of luxurious
As an engineer, I think that when car manufacturers put plastic in very important parts like water pumps, they are shooting themselves in the foot for saving some money because "the market" and the "competition", in the long run the brands suffer because reputation falls. Car brands: Just listen the engineers! They know more about reliability than the marketing department.
Modern business doesn't care. Companies today are run by sociopaths with marketing degrees who care about nothing other than the next quarterly statement and their bonuses. By the time they have destroyed the company and/or its image, they've already jumped out with their golden parachutes.
The problem there is that most of the legacy car manufacturers are making most of their profits by selling replacement parts, so the people making the decisions don't _want_ the cars to be too reliable. In fact, they want the cars to start falling apart the day after the warranty expires. Of course in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot, because customers eventually notice the drop in quality - and then they stop buying the cars. But the people making those decisions are not worried about the long term health of the company - they just want to get their bonuses and get out before the company goes bankrupt.
As a german automotive engineer I can say its not just their own choice, its also caused by a ton of regulation making the cars worse. Also managers and purchasing departments push for the cheapest options, making our products worse. The other big issue is the focus on unnecessary features and our current view of the number of features equal the luxuriousness. Love my 90s Mercedes btw
Basically it's the top's fault that quality's declining, even purchasing dept are pressured to buy the cheapest material as possible. There's gotta be someone strong up there in the company that said, we are not going to sacrifice quality and will buy the best material for our product at their proper cost.
Japanese car manufacturers have to produce their cars to the same European regulations as German producers yet they've maintained extremely high quality / reliability and they've invested in latest technologies all while turning a profit.
@@mochipii your sentiment is admirable and I agree but those at the top of any car manufacturer (or any corporation for that matter) are responsible to one group of people and that’s the shareholders. If a CEO or any Exec does anything that fails to maximise operating profit they will be replaced immediately by someone else. In short, cars are built at the lowest possible price to be sold at the highest price the market will bear. The exception to that are rare one offs like the Toyota GR Yaris which was built at a loss to be an advertising vehicle for Toyotas motorsport profile in WRC.
My family is very proud and very tradition oriented. They have all only owned BMWs with very few exceptions. I broke tradition by buying a Toyota and I couldn't have been happier with my decision. I've seen the BMWs go to the repair shop over and over again for mechanical failures despite them being relatively new; meanwhile my 11 yr old Toyota has never had a single issue. Keep your status symbol vehicles, I'll go with the more practical options.
Putting a higher price on a more unreliable car doesn't work in their favor. The only reason people buy them is as status symbol and anyone that knows about cars steers clear from German and American cars.
Id rather sit in a chair and look at broken e92 coupe than drive a corrola 🤷🏼♂️ Depends on how you look at cars, every one of my drives is an event in it self even tho i drive VAG TDI hatchback, but really spicy one of that :)
If you want social status with Toyota reliability you can get a Lexus anyway, even at the high end it's better, the ISF is literally a better M3 for example
German cars have been declining steadily since about the time of reunification. Instead of sound, basic design and metalurgy/materials, they became gimmick laden, under-tested, 200k throw away garbage. Their salvation has been that every other manufacturer has followed the same path....
@@alem2412 Yet the main thing is to also check the VIN code as to most likely where your car is made. So here is how this VIN Code thing works is on the dash board or by the side of the door. So this is how it works the first digit is the number or letter of the country of origin of your car to say where is made. 1, 4, and 5. USA 2. Canada 3. Mexico 6. Australia 9. South America M. Thailand Z. Italy V. France W. Germany S. UK R. Taiwan J. Japan K. South Korea L. China Yet cars with the L as the first digit could outperform in quality of the ones that suppose to be made in the USA or Germany.
I did an internship in 2013 at a mercedes benz car dealer / workshop and was amazed how much plastic part are on these cars. Plastic clasps constantly broke and hat to be glued back on body parts. So when they say the made a new car lighter it basically means "we replaced as much metal with plastic as we could"
After enjoying and keeping my Mercedes 116, I had an excellent opinion of German quality however; bought my daughter a VW Cabrio while in school and it fell apart right before our eyes! The outside trim just fell off, the plastic interior faded and broke along with window regulators and the top was shot in 2 years!, Have stepped up and bought her 2 BMW's and both are just plastic nightmares inside the engine compartment. Door regulators gone in 50K miles and the dealers wanted $600 for 1 that I bought on the internet for 35 dollars. Inside the door every plastic clip broke and had to be glued together. Never again.
@@klugermensch5933 and especially as EV SUVs, heavy and punching a big hole into the hair on the highway and needing a lot of energy to move the thing, energy that mostly comes from fossil power from the energy grid into the EV Battery.
@@TheInsaiyan Thats because much strickter rules on Passanger safelty and also PEdestiran safelty. Bonnet design today is regulated by safelty for pedestrians not looks alone. For an example my 1993 Toyota Corolla Liftback coupe is roomier than a 2008 Liftback Prius 5 door. and it felt better sound insulated also. Drove a taxi prius for around 2 years.
Not Just brands, people need to, but they never will, not until they are forced to walk, hitchike or use public transport, because they can no longer afford to maintain their vehicle.
@@aygwm we did that 2 years ago and boy we were so WRONG. we still own a 2018 lexus that has been fair with 80k miles. Our 2022 gx460 was the biggest nightmare that left us stranded 300 miles from home. We lost alot trading it in but so far our (bad brand) vw atlas has taken us at least a whole oil change interval without giving us an issue. The lexus spent several weeks at the dealer and we were fed up and so was service. Engineers were Involved and we were offered a new Lexus. We said screw it. The bad brand car is cheaper and more comfortable anyways.
I work as a sound engineer in the US. I first learned on analog sound boards. Everything switch to digital sometime in the mid 2ks and has progressed further so that it’s hard to find analog boards. In the audio industry, reliability is way more important than feature sets. No one tolerates a concert being stopped in the middle, and having the sound engineer get on the mic and say ‘I have to reboot the sound board Sorry.’ The console manufactures debug these boards to the point where you can leave them on for weeks w/I problems. If you leave them on for a month, you have a problem. Why wouldn’t auto manufactures See the need to have a similar level of reliability? Seems like it’s more dangerous to be traveling at a high speed and have a computer crash, then it is to have a rock concert end early.
@@ironman8257 No lie. This is a problem everywhere like you said. People who have no idea how anything works keep becoming in charge of telling others what to do. Everything is falling apart because of it.
correctly said. The problem is mostly media which needs to show the surface of the materials but in reality they are cheap. Video editing skills increased and quality of the products are decreasing
@@luigi55125 The problem is capitalism. This is late stage. Eventually you’ll spend $1 million on something that is broken from the factory. Or pay a subscription for something that’s fully paid off, depreciated and even more broken.
With my four cars Range Rover, Porsche Macan, Toyota Corolla and a 15 year old Nissan Micra, I do one thing, ignore the manufacturer service intervals and over service engine and gearbox, take and old fashion approach to regular check overs myself, whilst it doesn’t eliminate all issues they are reduced. Oh and the best car I ever owned 2008 Lexus RX450h, 400,000km fault free (but you all knew that)!
@@Embargomanno cars in general for me :), i built my own ebike out of junk parts..... 60mph and 40-50 mile range.... i have 2000watts of solar on my roof, im sure some of it came from china at some point. so its probably just as bad.
Yes, I am sad to say that I don’t listen to my car’s manufacturer recommendation on their “life time” transmission fluid and “life time” engine coolant. Engine oil could also be “life time” but just a much short life time 😂
My father had an old Toyota which he drove to Yemen. It was used in a war. The car runs the same, it had bullets fired at it, explosions happening near it. We replaced the tyres, windshield and a broken wiper fluid and clutch fluid tanks. That's all. The engine, chasis, axle, suspensions all are the same. Shows how great the build quality is.
@@timchamberlin9280 Headlight wipers were mandatory, for a reason, to even be allowed to sell a car in Sweden in the 80's :) So all cars had them here.
"Planned obsolescence" is the name of the game. The manufacturers could not keep selling cars if they were so durable that the customers would not need to buy another one.
all these cars are made by computers these days, they know exactly how many miles/km the parts will last, they focus on the time the first owner takes to change cars, thats how long the parts will last
@@hondofitty A bit unrelated but i had 2 identical samsung phones from 2013 , used in almost same circumstances , one started having screen issues with green lines and not turning on and in an unbelievable 1 week difference the second phone got the exact same defect, both phones work perfectly other than the screen and the cost to replace a now 10 year old screen (but when it broke it was more like 7) is the price of an equivalent entire phone. The only way it lasted that long was because their software wasn't fully updated, so it was fast and snappy while everyone I knew that updated it had freezes, overheating and worse animation freezes that even effected the ability to answer calls, the most basic feature. It's multi layered planned obsolescence.
so, you are telling me according to j.d. power that land rovers and jaguars and jeeps are more reliable than most german car brands is hard to believe. i am still amazed that apparently alfa romeo which is known for horrible reliability is more reliable and better quality than audi. also this list suggests many American car manufacturers are more reliable than toyota which probably has the strongest image of reliability in the world.
You have to remember that for the USA, German manufacturers produce cars in Mexico and the US. Also, Italian cars have proven to be reliable across the board recently.
As Americans know, JD power surveys are nonsense. Pay for rankings, too. The cited survey is “initial quality” which could even mean someone is confused with infotainment operation. But are German autos at the top under a more realistic measure? No
@@Embargoman China will never outperform anything from anywhere. Because everything made in China has always been made poorly and to a price point. Hence why in less than 15 months it falls apart.
Mercedes of the past were designed and manufactured by the engineers and then the accountants figured out how much to sell it for. Now the accountants dictate how much to sell it for and the engineers have to design and manufacture it to that price point.
Correct. And now they are (like all other German cars) overpriced for what they are. In fact you could say that most cars from all over the world are these days!
I do very light design work. And yes. They are "ALWAYS" trying to find the cheapest part to do the job, then when stuff don't act right. It's my fault.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 you are very right. I was in the design world too and appreciate your comment. Impossible deadlines, unrealistic expectations, impractical specifications, the whole lot with bells and whistles on top….at zero cost 😏
I am an American that has purchased many cars over my time. I’ve had all from Ford, GM, Chrysler to Audi, BMW Mercedes and even Kia Honda and Toyota’s. Out all I’ve had, my Toyota and Mazda are by far the must reliable vehicles I’ve bought. In my opinion based on what I’ve had, the Japanese by far have superior engineering and quality. Both have over 200,000 miles with no problems outside of normal wear and tear (tires, breakers, bulbs etc..)
I own a 12 year old V6 Acura with over 100k miles. It has never needed a repair and the engine still runs like new. I expect to get 300k+ miles out of it if I choose to do so. My mechanic is always trying to buy it off of me.
@@martinsvensson6884 They definitly have superior engineering. Or if not engineering, at least superior build quality. It's a shame that all the companies in the world are ditching quality for profit margins and planned obsolesence.
@@norwegianblue2017 Honda also has a solid car. Now that they got away from timing belts (most models) and went to timing chains, there are bulletproof.
I owned a Mercedes 1973 SLC automatic in the late 90s for 5 years. Fantastic build quality and was very reliable. Recently, i bought a Mercedes estate which is full of endless niggles and problems and the interior is plasticky and lacks refinement as well. Will buy Japanese next. Had a couple of Mazda's before and they were faultless and fun to drive.
I was a big VW fan in the 80’s as a teenager starting with the bug, Scirocco, Ghia, and GTI (1983-84). When I got out of college and could afford to buy my first car was a brand new off the showroom floor 1991 GTI. Long story short it started falling apart right away. Sold it within 2 years and I’ve never purchased another VW and probably never will. I’m in my late 50’s now and have always told that story and directed people towards more reliable brands. Build a solid car that will last well beyond the payments and your customers will sell your cars for you.
@@DWREV I'm not Dan, but I have a similar car history. I have driven Hondas since my last VW. I'm generally satisfied with Honda, but they're not perfect. A 2001 Odyssey had to have 3 transmissions.
the golf mark 2 gti was basically indestructible. here in Europe they are still driving around. without a new engine and with the first paint. I think you were just unlucky. or cheated by the car dealer
Same story here. as a teen I read all the auto rags C&D, R&T and Automobile. I was convinced that European cars were superior to North American and Japanese brands. Then I bought my first new car - a VW Rabbit (Golf everywhere else). Loved driving it - handled great and was fun to drive. It was terribly unreliable and cost a fortune to repair. In 4 years I drove it 100 thousand km and the repairs cost more than the purchase price. I'll cut it some slack - it was a 1974, the first. year for the Mark I in the US and I think the changes that had to be made to meet US regulations didn't help it. Now the theme around German cars in the US is great cars while under warranty, then dump it and be prepared to take a beating on depreciation unless you leased it.
The biggest red flag is plastic parts in the engine bay. That’s unreliability at its peak. I mean how can you be so sure that the plastic in throttle body won’t snap under high pressure and temperature. That’s just one example. A few years down the line they might start making 3D printed engine blocks
I found the non-engineer in the comment section. Plastics, in my opinion are bad due to their inability to be recycled. Other than that, Plastics are extremely strong and if they do not see crazy heat cycles, where they can warp, they do pretty well. Also ALL manufacturers have been using plastics since the early 2000. I have several cars with nearly 200K miles with plastics and they are doing fine. I would prefer metal as when the car reaches its death, that metal compound can be recycled a lot better than a plastic part, which will not be reused and will live in a land field for eternity. Toyota uses lots of plastics too.
@@HippasosofMetapontum my dad's 20 year old Toyota avensis has done hundreds of kilometers with no oil and a misfiring piston. Yes the damage is permanent but the car still got to its destination. It runs fine today. I don't think there are many cars from other brands that would cope as well as the typical toyota sedan in such a scenario.
It’s not just reliability, it’s durability, longevity and most importantly the ability to maintain and repair them. My ;last two BMWs became uneconomic to repair not much past 100k miles. Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems, control and sensors, these so called luxury brands just become “Money Pits” to keep on the roads, it’s now cheaper to lease a new German car than buy a 5 year old secondhand one. Car design is now driven by sales and marketing, not engineers in my opinion, the quality doesn’t go past the cabin materials and driver controls, everything else is cheap, poor materials and not designed to last past the first lease contract.
"Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems," To be fair, none of that is true. The TH-cam channel M539 Restorations is constantly doing those kinds of repairs on BMWs. A laptop with BMW ISTA software is required for coding modules.
Compare an old w126 S class to the new S class.. Old one is classy, drives like a tank, and looks timeless.. parts are still available. The new S class looks sissy and from far away you do not now if it is a Kia or Mercedes.. Good luck fixing the new S class.
The article pretty much nailed it. German vehicles are full of new tech and that means some ironing out of bugs and figuring out best practices (of manufacturing). There is a reason Honda and Toyota are so reliable. They wait until tech is mastered before they introduce it in their vehicles. Mercedes = first with ABS, first with air bags, first with keyless entry, etc. But the real push to the latest tech came in the late 90s when BMW started to do the same. Around that time, Mercedes also merged with Chrysler...and sacrificed some durability for profits. That is why late 1990s to 2010 was a bad time for Mercedes. Tech is still a big thing with Mercedes/BMW/etc. and that means expensive repairs once out of warranty. Remember that cars depreciate with time/mileage...labor and parts DO NOT. That $100k German car will still cost like $100k German car when it comes time to service it.
Generally agree with your observation. Unfortunately with more of the component design being carried out by vendors even Honda and Toyotas are breaking. Problems with incorrectly machined bearings are causing a mess on the Tacoma trucks being built this year.
German cars now are very expensive to maintain,parts are hard to come by,and installing them is a nightmare. Eg.Replacing a car battery on a BMW requires the computer to be reprogrammed. While on a Toyota the computer programmes itself,simply drive the car to reprogram it. My former college classmate had a VW Tiguan. The A/C compressor failed and cost more than $1000 just for the part. So he replaced it with a Japanese A/C compressor for less than $300. Works perfect.
Partly true… that’s true on cars made after the early 2000’s with German cars because of too much technology installed instead of paying attention to the quality. I wouldn’t touch most VW’s with a 10 foot pole. That Tiguan is made in Pueblo ,Mexico. That’s why it goes wrong. The Mexicans are not known to build a high quality item apart from Tacos 🌮
@@jasonknight5863all the VW fanboys keep saying that but there is no difference in reliability from Mexican to a German VW. TH-camrs Humblemechanic and Deutsch Auto Parts have debunked that. The only reliable modern VWs were the ones equiped with the 07k and tdi engine that's it.........
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo we had a VW Toureg and when I would go in to get it serviced at the VW dealership. I’d would always see guys coming in looking for new parts at the parts counter. I’d make sure to listen to see what model it was for. It was always for the Jetta… all Jetta’s are Made in Mexico. Says it all really.
@@jasonknight5863 Same at Napa Auto Parts since I almost always shop there for replacement filters for my Toyota. When I saw the shelves for the coolant I wondered why is the newest coolant for VW's aka Pentofrost E $22 for a 1.5Liter bottle and Zerex G40 (VW calls it G12++) coolants are mostly gone and more expensive than most other types including for Asian vehicles. Turned out that VW cooling systems have a ton of problems. Many people rather go for something works for less money so they settle on the Zerex G40 coolant which is interchangeable with G13.
I heard somewhere that to be financially able to get a used Mercedes car, you have to be able to afford a brand new one, but it applies to all German premium car makers, in the end
I've owned over 100 cars from many car brands. American, Japanese, Korean, German, and Swedish. I can say with absolute confidence that Japanese cars are the most reliable and the easiest to work on. American and Korean cars are about the same with average reliability and repairability. German cars are the most fun and engaging but they also have an abundance of cheap plastic parts in critical areas (such as cooling and oiling systems) and they are by far the hardest to service.
@@user-d32658Japanese cars are fundamentally boring and very very safe. Completely different markets. I don’t get this video, German cars are sports and luxury cars made for going on the Autobahn and the track.
Same here. I've owned Toyotas and Hondas. Toyotas are easily my favorite cars and do exactly what I expect from them, that is, get my reliably from A to B, they rarely break down and when they do, you parts are very reasonably priced.
I've been a avid buyer of German cars for years, as was my family. My dad had a S500 in 1997, and still owns it today. It's bombproof. 600,000 miles and counting. My first German car was a 3 Series in 2005, It was great. Since then I've owned a 1 Series, an E Class and a Tiguan, all new and all had issues. The E class was a joke. Rusting doors at 18 months old. Whole new engine at 21k miles at a year old, rattles and creaks were always present. It wasn't worth the money. The 1 Series had a issue with a intermittent misfire that they couldn't fix under warranty, it also had a ECU failure a few weeks after the warranry expired. The Tiguan caught fire and nearly killed me, VW didn't care. My wife and I now own Lexus's. No problems, built perfectly and never putting a foot wrong. It's a shame, I loved owning BMW and Mercedes, but they are not worth the premium anymore. I never brought them for the bragging rights of owning luxury German cars, just that I wanted quality and dependability, they didn't deliver on those promises.
I was pinned with a 97 Camry for the last 20 plus years, it looks like it jumped the Grand Canyon and never broke once...never. I missed out on years of car frustrations and grievances.
@notfiveo which parts specifically are you referring to that's "cheap plastic" and a major cause of breakdowns on German cars. This sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about because Toyotas absolutely do NOT use more metal parts than German cars. The number one reason why German cars seem unreliable to non-Germans is due to the attitude of German engineers. They expect everyone to follow the maintenance schedule and obey it religiously, and they engineers the cars to work with such. Toyota engineers their cars to be abuse by customers.
It's in fact very simple. A colleague of mine always told potential customers: "do you want it to be modern and with a lot of electronics, or reliable". He is still right.
What happened is they caught up with the rampant hyperconsumerism. What does it matter how reliable a car is past warranty if the owner changes the car by that point bc it wasn't even their property- it was on a lease like majority of new German cars "sold". We're in the age of planned obselecence and disposable commodities. My grandma's old Soviet washing mashine still works and it only needed one part changed in the last 20 years. My uncle's E38 still runs like clockwork and all he does is basic maintanance. I have an alarm clock my dad was using in his 20's and it still works after 40 years and all it needed was one transistor a year ago bc of a power surge we had. Things used to be made to last but that isn't proffitable enough. Companies need us to continously buy new stuff so they made it last less. Nearly everything is made to milk you for every last penny you're worth. We're cattle to be worked to death and made to spend money on stuff. That's also why there is this massive push for subscriptions everywhere- ideal customer is one that doesn't own anything and continues to spend. Thankfully there are still companies that do make products that last. In automotive space it's brands like Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc.
I live in the UK and drive mainly Honda and Toyotas. I love the design, performance, and particularly the refinement and interiors of German cars, and the heritage of engineering behind them. Unfortunately, what has happened is that manufacturers and their friends, the reviewers, have convinced us all that perceived quality is better than engineering quality, and the emphasis is now on appearance, and interior materials. Almost everybody I know with a German car (including my favourite Audi) has had issues with them. In my opinion, it's putting too many unnecessary systems and gadgets into them. That said, Lexus equip their cars well and the internal systems seem also to stand up to the test of time well.
Exactly this, even though it may not be as luxurious as the german counterparts lexus is probably the best option if you want luxury without the downsides of luxury. You'll hardly ever have any problems and in the rare cases you do it won't cost you an arm and a leg to fix it, it's something you can safely bet it will last for decades.
@@billolsen4360 I love Jaguars, Bill, but I'm too much of a coward. I've been running Hondas and Hyundais for the past 20 years, and haven't had a single failure yet.
@@Rondo2ooo I think they're getting on top of it now - the BMW 1 series seems to be very reliable again, like BMW used to be. I love the Audi A6 and A8, great cars.
I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad. We also liked VW a lot. Its shameful how bad VW and Audi have gotten. I hope these companies address these issues seriously. Right now me and my dad have a Honda Civic and a Mazda 3. Great cars.
What I have seen in the US is that newer German cars will incur a cost to repair that exceeds the car's value within about ten years. It is so much cheaper for parts and labor on American and Asian cars. American cars, especially, have come a long way in the past 10-15 years. Especially on the performance end.
"I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad" Sorry to hear. 🙃 I prefer Alfa Romeo myself. If you are going to have a prestige car, do it in style I say! 😊 The Busso V6 is iconic!
I bought a VW Polo TSI thinking of the German reliability reputation of the past. Boy I was so wrong, and finally realized that reliable German cars were those in the 90s, not in 2010.. Dump the VW and went back to Toyota instead.. VW's reputation is falling into the drain in Southeast Asia market..
Poor quality of German products is not limited to cars. Siemens, Bosch washing,achines used to last a lifetime. We got a 1980 Siemens washing machine that still works. New machines for the other house broke in less than 4 years. The last time BMW made a great car was the BMW 2002. Mercedes W123 series are very reliable, easy to repair and many went over 1,000,000 Km. New S Class are a money pit after warranty expires.
After retiring from the auto mechanics trade and the assembly line (I built fire trucks) I had a five year stint working at a popular auto parts store. Image-conscious people of limited means often purchased high end German luxury cars that were 10 to 15 years old with 150,000+ miles on them. Cars that originally sold for $80,000-$100,000 could easily be had for $10,000-$12,000 each. However, whenever the owner of one of these cars came into the auto parts store and asked for a typical usually high-end component, such as a starter, alternator, radiator, air conditioning blower motor, etc. I would type in the year, make, model, engine, size , and desired part. I would then turn the screen to the customer and just point at the price. The look on their face coupled with “ARE YOU CRAZY?!!!!” - Priceless!
@@MrSparklespring I am now in Airport Transportation driver. At 217,000+ miles on the original engine and transmission my 2013 Hyundai Sonata was my business vehicle and is now my run around town car. The only problem I had out of that car was the stereo head went cuflewie and Hyundai replaced it under warranty. I now have a 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander that is about to click over 95,000 miles. No issues to speak of with either vehicle.
There's a saying in the industry that you may buy a €100,000 car for €10,000 some years down the line but when you go to repair it it's still a €100,000 car.
Very sadly, I feel like Lexus have almost become what Mercedes used to be in terms of quality. The problem is that I’m not very keen on Lexus designs so I don’t buy one. Instead I use a new Honda civic for the family and I drive a 1983 380SE.
2005 Lexus ES330. Got it at 182k miles. At 217k miles I had rehabbed the transmission as best i could with fluid changes but the damage was done. The previous owner never changed the trans fluid. Theres a drain plug and fill port! Sadly I could not save the car. There was mild engine sludge and the leather had dried out in the hot leather sun. It still cruised the highways really nicely with more than enough power. I ended up starting from much better position with a 2 year old Prius. This will be my last car purchase. After that I'm done. Hopefully autonomous cars are a thing in 7 years.
I've had a mix of german and japanese cars; Volkswagens and Mazdas. My Volkswagens always had problems (one assembled in Pueblo, MX, and the other in Wolfsburg, DE) and it's part of the experience. I'm not sure if the build quality is necessarily bad, but engineering often drives problems like choice of switches and regulators. The front fenders on my 2009 GTI rotted out surpringly early (worse than my Mazda Protege). My GTI had a DSG box and it was the main reason I got rid of it. I'd still consider a Volkswagen, but I have to wait a few model years before they sort out their issues. With a German car, you really need a warranty. I don't think American cars are much better though, and Korean cars feel like excellent products out of the bag but are fairly disposable after 12-15 years. All of my Mazdas on the other hand were almost flawless. They all have very thin sheetmetal and paint, and their corrosion resistance is still to this day a little subpar, but otherwise they are some of the best built vehicles I've ever had the pleasure of driving. My current 2014 Mazda3 has 150k km and runs like the day I took delivery almost 10 years ago and it was part of the very first batch of its generation. Mazda did it right the first time. I'd never take that chance with a Volkswagen. And lastly, the fun-to-drive aspect of German cars has completely evaporated. They all feel like insulated video games now, even cars like the GTI and BMW M-cars. So there's no more motivation to going the extra mile in getting it to run right; it's not even fun anymore. The Japanese still have interesting and fun products with excellent reliability. It's hard to go elsewhere.
absolutely agreed with the fun part. i daily drive a 2010 N16 Sunny that is based on a 2001 car platform architecture, got to drive a 2017 Golf TSI from a friend of mine. The steering wheel feel and feedback was hands down the worst steering feel out of any car i have ever driven. And since i live in a shithole and car reliability is compulsory, his VW is already falling apart.
Mazda 6 diesel (2015) was a complete money pit! for me. I think cars in general are becoming more unreliable due, in large part, to planned obsolescence.
The jd powers survey is fundamentally flawed. It is not the complaints in the first year that matter, it is the percentage of cars built in a model year that are still on the road which expose the quality cars and the junk
One issue, is that German autos are not designed to be easily repaired. I have owned two successive Audi’s and have close friends with BMW’s and Mercedes. Simple repairs can require a complete disassembly of the entire front end, just to get to a $15 part. This leads to more shop time - $$$ - and more opportunities for other systems or components to fail.
The main problem with German cars (and in particular BMW and Mercedes) stems from the fact that they use complicated and innovative engineering, as pointed out in the video. This has always been the case, with Mercedes vehicles back in the early 70's for example sporting fuel injection, overhead camshafts, 4-wheel independent suspension & disc brakes etc as standard features, while vehicles from the US & elsewhere where still back in the stone age comparatively with their carburettors, pushrods, solid axels and drum brakes. Now this in itself isn't necessarily a problem if all the individual components that make up these complicated parts and assemblies are of high quality, however nowadays many of the most basic components have been cheapened in order to save a few cents here & there in production costs, resulting in these complicated parts and assemblies failing both predictably and on a regular basis, resulting in huge repair costs. Modern BMW's for example are notorious for oil leaks due to the installation of poorly designed seals of poor quality into the heart of these complicated and expensive parts and assemblies; these cheap substandard seals are not fit for purpose and will always fail after a relatively short period of time, usually shortly after the end of the warranty period has been reached.. Another example is Mercedes using cheap hydraulic hoses on their self-levelling suspension systems in recent decades; the hoses burst after a few years of use, however cannot be simply pulled-off and replaced for a few bucks as they are built into the assembly itself; the entire integrated suspension strut assembly must be instead replaced, costing thousands of dollars for each unit (of which four are fitted to each vehicle). This is the sole reason for the huge depreciation in values of used Mercedes & BMW vehicles in particular (and most European makes in general); a vehicle that cost well over $200K new is often worth only $20K or less after 9 or 10 years due to the huge cost of replacing all these expensive components that will inevitably fail around this time. Of course, this kind of thing is common across most manufacturers nowadays however the difference is that luxury marks like BMW and Mercedes charge a premium for this perceived "superior German quality" which in reality no longer exists, and the substandard replacement parts are then also triple the price of other makes due to being "quality German parts", which they are in fact not. So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses.
I believe the German auto industry has gone about complicating the living daylights out of their cars, much to the chagrin of the owners who have to deal with their cars when the trouble codes start mounting. (How many computer modules does a car REALLY need?) On the other end of the spectrum, look at how many air-cooled VWs are still running today...mine included. The Beetle was a car without pretense, and its beauty lies in its simplicity, and slow-but-steady changes over its 65 year production run. I'll keep my Super Beetle, thank you.
"So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses." Workers and the State of Saxony have seats on the board making those decisions.
That's an excellent summary! If only the parts used were of high quality, it would do wonders for their reputation. BUT Mercedes, BMW and Audi vehicles sell (or lease) very well any way, so why should they increase their costs and decrease their profits? You can see why they have no incentive to bother to increase component quality.
It is because they factor things as infotainment & electronic issues while the mechanical reliability metrics only take into account the period where the cars are new. Aside from build quality, the lack of sophisticated electronics in the 90s Japanese cars is the main reason they earned their reputation as "reliable". I seriously doubt that modern Toyotas with all-digital dashboards etc will last 20 years.
I agree 100% American cars are at the top of the list of most unreliable in the world. Wouldn't by anything but the truck from them. Cars and suvs are a waste of money, cheaply made. Pay attention at the gaps in between doors, no gap is the same dimension. This is something Japanese and European car manufacturers have dealt with a long time ago.
US manufactures had a massive come back. Investing in quality was the only way to compete. I am not surprised. German car manufacturers went crazy by letting the cookie cutter BWL graduates into the leadership seats.
ask any european about a list where mitsubishi is near jaguar and alfa romeo on the list, and you'll know how reliable that list is. here's a better metric: the type of cars you mostly see on tow trucks, ie those that left you stuck on the road. but also take into account that if everyone is driving buick, then buick will have most problems. because it's the only car on the road.
They lost the plot. Over two decades I had purchased four 5 series sedans in a row. One day I was presented with a $2500 bill for a headlight. Are you kidding? Then you look around at the $25MM dealership, yup, they need putzes to pay for this Taj Mahal. Brand destroying BS. BMW used to be a car guys car, small dealerships where the owner would be heading out to the local track on the weekend. They didn't keep it real, sneezed all the little dealers out and now its just overpriced BS tripping. Haven't bought one since that headlight incident. They made a great car but forgot the customer also expects from a premium car quality, longevity and reasonable repair costs/total cost of ownership
It’s all about money, of course. It’s always about money. The parts are expensive. They’re made so only the dealers can program the computer systems. Even a simple oil change is made to sound like a major service. They are very greedy and that’s the bottom line.
I remember how mortified I was when my mom bought her fully loaded 2017 Jetta and the interior was cheaper than the 2003 Jetta I’d had in high school. The screen is all that’s important in new cars
I used to be a German car fanboy, then I started working at a repair shop focusing on the German brands. Now I hate them all except for Porsche. The engineering decisions that lead to a simple seal taking hours to replace for example, the cost cutting in the engine bay, electronics, and the neutering of once legendary tuning divisions M and AMG turned me away and I will tell anyone to buy Asian.
I bought a 20 year old, Lupo, and at the same time my friend bought a brand new VW,. In the three years since , my Lupo has never let me down and my friend’s VW breaks down constantly. It’s also very expensive to repair, so she recently got rid of it and bought a Honda.
@@tombassman I think it's called the VW Sharan if I'm not mistaken. It's like a plus-sized Golf I think, but now discontinued in favour of more SUV production.
These companies today only care about making money for shareholders. Ferrari management was under the same pressure from its shareholders to increase the model range of Ferrari and produce a cheaper model to increase sales and profits. Ferrari said NO. They told their shareholders that the famous Italian brand was not going to be diminished in order to make a quick buck. Well done Ferrari!!
Ferraris are the shittiest cars in the world when it comes to reliability, even a billion times worse than a 80ies Yugo or a 70ies russian moskvich. Their Success is: They sell dreams, not cars. You want to rake in blonde bimbos? Humiliate yourself, buy a Ferrari, even if the dealers make you hop through 1000 loops.
I got myself a BMW E36 as a first car and after 4 years of ownership yes it needs its repairs from time to time but they are CHEAP and after all those years they are well deserved. My dad's VW Tiguan is another story. Not to mention the feel of building quality and driving experience. Instead of those factors improving in a newer car they declined noticably.
Well the difference is that the BMW E36 was Made In Germany back in the 1990’s when BMW actually made high quality well put together cars that lasted a long time. Then BMW in the early 2000’s started getting smart and thought they would give themselves bigger year over year profits by making more poorer quality cars with more plastic parts which meant higher profits for the dealerships because they had to be brought back to fix them way more often. I’m not surprised about the VW Tiguan they are made in Pueblo Mexico as are most VW’s that they sell in the U.S apart from the Golf GTI. That’s the only one they still make in Germany 🇩🇪. The only one from that company I would touch.
Ya, I have an E39 with 228k miles and it has been great car. Yes, it's needed work from time to time but once you get away from the dealers, there are mechanics that can keep it up at a reasonable price.
My son bought a 2016 VW Jetta. The left headlight and the marker lights keep burning out, once a year. We have a 2012 Ford F150 with the same miles (50K....) I don't remember the last time I replaced the headlights on the truck.
In 2015 i worked in call center for a second hand car parts store for about 9 months, all the calls i got through out my time there were for german cars (note to the reader: i got about 60-80 calls a day) and almost none for japanese cars no matter the year of manufacturing...that speaks volumes...
Might also be because of your customer base. That can either be the customers them selves prevering to call over online shopping. And the parts you guys supplied at the time. A broad assortment of German parts will get you those customers
This is quite true. When I was a child Mercedes was a brand of absolute quality; recently in my country there have been reports of Mercedes having to be returned owing to shoddy quality (and for many years Japanese brands have higher resale value)
In America you can get a used BMW dirt cheap but it's gonna be really expensive to keep it running. Some people buy them and drive them to death like you used to do with Chevy Chevettes.
@@missano3856Were Chevettes expensive to repair? Or were you only comapring the tendency of poor people to buy them and run them until the wheels fall off?
They were pretty basic cars so I can't imagine a new alternator or water pump was very expensive. I knew a guy who took a Honda civic and put an outboard boat motor fuel tank on the roof instead of replacing the fuel pump.
In the US German cars are seen as awesome, luxurious, and powerful, but also as endless money pits. They break down quickly and replacing the countless cheap plastic parts and other expensive components make them a subpar choice overall.
My first Mercedes was a 1980 300D. I loved that car! It was noisy and slow, but it was a tank. I felt proud and safe. No problems for the 3 years I owned it. Fast forward 44 years and I have a S550 4matic. I enjoy this car too, but live with the knowledge that something is going to go wrong with it and it may cost more to fix it that is prudent to invest. I am looking at alternatives for the next car. The fine art of "how to lose a loyal customer".
Had a Mercedes rental car in Germany in 2001. It was beautiful, only had 4,000 miles on it. Drove it from the airport, stopped for lunch. When I tried to drive away after lunch, there was a "DO NOT DRIVE - BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE" message. They brought me a different Merc. It had a panel on the door that kept falling off and landing against my leg. Pretty much convinced me to never buy a Merc.
In a Renault, a slightly low brake fluid level will trigger a "BRAKE SYSTEM FAULT" when driving on an incline even though the brakes work perfectly fine. (This was an older model where the brakes were still manual-hydraulic, not brake-by-wire where the ABS system activates the brake and the brake pedal is electronic.) The actual fault was just a leaking (low quality) seal causing a slow brake fluid leak and hence the fluid to slosh away from the sensor when driving on a hill. Sometimes too much sophistication in the electronics can cause erroneous fault codes, I think. I can see how someone who didn't know how hydraulic brakes work could be startled by the error message.
@@KrotowX I replaced the leaking clutch line dampener later, it's a common fault on those Meganes (2.0 F4R turbo). The seal on the dampener perishes and causes a slow leak. I did so by replacing the clutch line with a braided line (on the Megane, the clutch shares the same reservoir as the brakes, hence the brake fault message due to combined reservoir). Though in hindsight if I could have found the right fitting to cap off where the clutch dampener attached to the factory clutch line that would have worked too and been cheaper than replacing the entire clutch line. 🙂
@@KrotowX "Because French". To clarify, the leak on these Megane RS and Megane GT models is a very slow leak. There is still more than enough fluid in the reservoir to operate both systems, the fault message triggers just when driving on a hill where the fluid sloshes away from the sensor. I topped the reservoir up at the first opportunity and ordered the parts for the repair.
Quality is not by default in German cars and the problem of increasingly defective German automobiles is exacerbated by adding more software and electronics which multiplies the number of glitches.
an equivalent Japanese car has the same number of tech and features than a german car ... meanwhile even better infotainment sometimes but still Lexus is the most reliable brand right now.
I grew up blue-collar in the US. At that time, a German car (especially a Mercedes) was the ultimate status symbol known for its high engineering standard. I worked hard and became successful, and in the early 2000s, I purchased a Mercedes sedan. Unfortunately, that was a mistake. The engine would balk with heavy acceleration, and the quality control was atrocious. I had electronic display panels replaced multiple times, and very rudimentary items like two door handles and the cigarette lighter literally disconnected from the car. Repair and maintenance costs were through the roof, and the dealer always seemed to find an additional expensive repair when I brought the car in for anything, including an oil change. After a few years, I had had it with German cars and sold the Mercedes. What did I replace it with? A reliable Honda that my kids still drive today.
Sadly the late '90s and early 2000s were the worse time ever to buy a Mercedes. Their then CEO Jurgen Schrempp had embarked on his mad DaimlerChrysler project and started cost cutting everywhere. The W220 S-Class and W210 E-Class were the worst cars Mercedes every built in terms of quality. They had poor paintwork and rusted, while their interiors were loaded with cheap plastics. I called Schrempp the man who made millions for Mercedes, but lost billions!
The problem is you bought the Mercedes in the beginning of their worst era. The mid 90s they started going downhill. In a matter of fact the real last Mercedes was the W126 till 1991 and W124 till maybe 1994.. After that they started looking and feeling like sissy cars with ugly designs like the W220 , W204, GLK-Class , CLA class, etc....
You were fooled twice by advertising, the first was The American Dream which doesn't exist and the second was that German engineering is superior. There's wonderful advertising in the US - world leading, in fact.
I remember how many years ago I got into one of the first examples of the electric Golf 7 and while I was driving, the onboard computer suddenly read a message that it needs an oilchange. Excellent stuff 😂👍
@@ericndungu2810 I was telling my girl. The only "reliable" German car is Porsche. I don't think I ever heard one in real life sounding horrible. Then again. Porsche owners probably take care of their vehicle very well compared to lets say an average Benz owner.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 People also expect Porsches to be expensive so they can probably afford more quality materials and production. A Cayman is the cheapest Porsche, and costs about the same as the most expensive 2 series.
the volkswagen golf VII was awarded the "european car of the year" award in 2013, as well as the "world car of the year award" in the same year. it also received the "US car of the year award" in 2015. this was all due to the impeccable quality and driveability of a car I myself have also owned - with zero complaints. the volkswagen golf VII was the last of the great VWs.
There was a time in the early 80s when b. MW decided to make suvs. And when they started making those cars would be very expensive to make in Germany so that he decided to make him in the US and then after a few years, they started to make all their brands here in the US, and when they started doing that, they took all these Shortcuts to quality, they boot plastic everywhere.And so now the reputation is what it said in the video.Until you get one.That's actually made in germany which most people either don't know about or they refuse to pay the cost to have it shipped from germany to us
Mercs started losing quality after the w124 model. I know of quite a number of owners wouldn't sell their 124s for the price of a new entry level mercedes of today
Even the quality of materials from the 123 seem better and have lasted longer than more recent models. Unfortunately while Toyota (and Lexus) and Honda went upmarket in quality and reliability, Mercedes that had the game to themselves went down. I really hope they get it back again and become "Engineered like no other car in the World"
Mercedes has historically been a high maintenance luxury brand which, when maintained properly, could deliver many miles and years of service. There was a cultural shift that took place during the 90`s where car companies like Toyota began to take market share in the luxury car market. This placed enormous pressure on luxury brands like Mercedes to reduce manufacturing costs and they struggled to master the art of efficiently mass-producing high technology. During this struggle many long time, loyal consumers changed brands and never turned back. This loss of brand loyalty was further magnified by the introduction of vehicle leasing sales strategies as a new culture of vehicle consumers never really developed a "pride in ownership" relationship with the vehicle. These factors created a further requirement that dealerships needed to have more highly skilled employees in every department, from the front of the store to the back of the store, and the problem with that was that workers with these skills generally did not work in the automotive industry. The customer experience at the dealership suffered further as a result of these factors.
I feel like the same thing happened at the same time with the Swedish car industry. My family owned nothing but Volvos from the 1980s until 2011. When we bought our first Volvo designed under Ford, it was an expensive, unreliable, piece of garbage that turned us away from the brand. Under Chinese ownership, the products have only gotten more expensive and even less reliable. My family switched to Honda: the spiritual successor of old Volvos in my opinion.
I drive a early 2000s Mercedes. Thing is still built like a tank, absolutely zero issues so far... I do agree that, in general, quality of products has just gotten worse due to the pressure to sell sell sell with more and better features each time. Nothing is made to be repaired, they just want you to use for a while and replace. It's criminal against our planet...
I can pinpoint the moment the German car industry began its downfall: The advent of electronic assistance systems and software. Over the years, I've driven all kinds of cars - first Japanese (Nissan) back in the 90s, then BMW and ultimately, since almost 14 years now, different models of Volkswagen (6y Polo, 6y Touran, now ID4). I always had a lease for 3 years, so every three years I got the latest model - so I could experience the evolution first hand. The first problems appeared in the Touran. It was the first car I got that featured advanced assistance systems and from the start there were some problems here and there. At first not very often, but then the next generation of the Touran arrived an it got noticeably worse: Sensors sometimes gave of false alarms, cruise control sometimes just decided not to work, sometimes for days. The car entertainment system crashed a bit more often than before. But all in all, most of the time the car still worked okay. Enter the ID.4. This is no longer a classic car. This is a computer on wheels. These types of cars live and breathe software. And this time, VW has ultimately proven that they can't do software if you put a gun to their heads. The software was riddled with bugs, the first iteration of the 12V battery was not powerful enough to reliably power all the electronics, so they had to recall and replace it. The OTA updates that were promised did not yet work, so during the recall they also updated the software to 2.4, finally enabling OTA capability. In theory - a few days ago, they announced that they stopped OTA because of too many problems and all people stuck on version 2.x would be contacted by their dealers for a manual update (but, hey, that's a lot of cars and the car to be in the shop for a couple of days so, yeah, that might take a while). And all the people who already got the 3.0 update, but whose cars were initially delivered with 2.x, have to go back to the shop as well - oh, but that may take even longer. I can't see myself get another German car after this experience - at least not a Volkswagen.
To be honest, digital assistance nightmares aren't only German car nemesis. Other cars with a lot of digital sensors may fail in even worse way. At 2000-ies friend had weird issues with his brand new Renault premium class car (I believe it was Vel Satis). He noticed very often empty tire warnings where tires wasn't empty. Tires was fine. Later turned out that cause was pressure sensor faults. In this car sensors are built in wheels - he luckily was able to get all four wheels replaced in dealer service on warranty. Overengineering is strong in German software development too. Thus user interface in German software often is something completely different in comparing with UI design principles elsewhere. Even copy/paste with Ctrl-C/Ctrl+V will be put on completely different key shortcuts. Had very awkward experience with German car part manufacturer catalogs and SAP in this aspect. No surprise why VW had so much problems with UI in their ID.x cars.
Alle Deutschen machen denselben Fehler: Hier Mal ne Erklärung für dich, damit den nimmer machst. since 2014, aber for 14 years. Also since wird angewandt, wenn man ein Datum, ne Uhrzeit oder Dergleichen hat. Since 2014, since his birth, since Buddha was born, since yesterday... For wird angewandt um einen Zeitraum zu beschreiben. For hours, For 10 minutes, for the past year, forever...
@@Kivas_Fajo Und da sind sogar noch mehr Fehler in dem Text, die Du alle übersehen hast, Schlaumeier. Wenn Du sie noch findest, darfst Du sie gerne behalten. Get a life.
First car I ever owned was a 1984 Mercedes 280e and it was hands down the best car I've ever had. Never missed a beat, beautiful to drive, and you could feel the quality. Most recent car I've had was a 2006 Mercedes ML320 and it's been the worst car - nothing but trouble, I've lost count of how many times something has gone wrong and I don't even want to think how much I've spent on repairs. I love the brand, but there is no denying they are not what they once were
This is true. Sadly the best driving big car I've ever had, Audi Q5, was also the most problematic. Constantly having issues and it's not like I drove it hard or any at all. Now I drive a 22 year old Lexus with far less problems. Sad
Bought a fancy Mercedes e63s AMG - it drives good but the software interface and features has been nothing but problems for years. The dealer can’t fix it - they don’t understand anything about the software and it controls everything in the car basically. The mechanical aspects seem good - but there are small nagging problems there too. Need an example - the trunk will randomly close its self smashing you in the head whilst your unloading groceries. The kick to open and close the trunk feature - can not be turned off - so every use of the trunk is a risky, fearful event where we wonder how injured we’ll be this time. It also often slams on the brakes while backing out of the garage because it sees the point where the garage floor stops and the driveway begins as an imaginary hazard requiring immediate intervention. The braking is so severe and harsh it hurt my wife’s neck from whiplash. All these problems from a car that cost over $150,000! We are considering getting rid of it and buying a Japanese car.
Another contributing factor is the product cycle that is getting shorter and shorter, while the portfolio is getting wider and wider. How many models does BMW have in 1980s? 4. In 2000s? 11. Now? Lost count. While a model development in the olden days takes quite some years from early design phase until final testing, current cars are developed within fractions of that time. Yes, computers and other tech helps to accelerate but still lot of shortcuts are made.
I noticed how most German products, not just the cars have had their quality decline in the last 20-25 years. With some is more noticeable than others. It's concerning but I don't have an answer as to why. So, when I purchased my new car I didn't even look at any German brand. I went straight for a Japanese one. Better quality, better craftsmanship, same luxury specs and even lower price.
I've noticed that the quality of a lot of products, regardless of where they were made, has declined in recent years. Clothing, appliances , furniture,toys etc. It's all to do with cost unfortunately. Consumers just want cheaper products, keep it for a few years,then throw it out.
@@keithmartin1328 "Consumers just want cheaper products, keep it for a few years,then throw it out." Maybe, yet mobile phones are more expensive than ever. Yet where is the German brand Grundig as a market leader in mobile phones (or televisions or anything)? It's gone and just a name put on generic products now.
Some time ago, I read something about German manufacturing that might ring some truth in it: 'If you want German quality, go buy Swiss'. It wasn't a Swiss but a German who said that.
It’s not just German cars. American cars have been garbage for decades in the last 10-15 years Japanese cars have seriously plummeted in quality. Also parts for all these cars are almost useless junk now.
In the 80's when I was a kid, there was a gulf of difference in quality between for instance the Ford Sierra/Vauxhall Cavalier and the BMW E30/Mercedes 190/Audi 80, the differences were completely tangible. Today when comparing the cars from mainstream manufacturers and those of premium German manufacturers the difference is next to nill. Ironically the only thing that is now 'premium' about most German cars is the price yet due to the sheer numbers of the things being supplied on low rate monthly lease deals they are now the mainstream themselves!!
I trust my 1962 vw bug over most newer cars on the road. With some basic maintenance, along with some restored original parts they last forever. My little 1200cc 40hp drives up and down the mountain grades, 150-mile trips one way a few days a week. I love my car!
A friend of my Dad's tried to give me a '61 Beetle 50 years ago, I drove it around the block and gave it bak to him; half a century later it still is the worst car I've ever driven...by fat!
I had a 61 bug with a crank sun roof and electric fuel gauge . Got it in 1963 from my uncle who brought it state side while serving in Germany. Sold it decades later. Still miss it.
It is not just the quality of the cars. I live in Spain and the dealerships in my area are terrible. I ordered a Mercedes and was so fed up with the service and quality of the dealership that I cancelled the order. I was in a hurry to replace my Audi, so I went to the garage next door and bought a Hyundai. The first time in 30 years that I haven't bought BMW, Mercedes or Audi. The quality, build, and technology are excellent and the value for money compared to its German competitors is unbeatable.
My daily driver is a 1992 MB W124 300D 4 speed auto. 30 years later still feels super solid and drives super smooth. I will keep it as long as possible because I have no idea with what newer model to replace it.
My first car was a 1957 VW Beetle - a wonderful, dependable car. The last was a 'new' Beetle that replaced a TDI Beetle that was recalled due to the diesel emissions issue. The last one was a dismal flop - its undependability was earth shaking. In between the Beetles was a '75 Scirocco and a 2005 Passat. The Scirocco was fun and sporty with 'shaky' quality. The Passat was a dismal failure - with two transmission replacements and a Service Manager telling me (HIS WORDS EXACTLY) "We've put a new transmission in the car but it will fail again due to an electrical problem that we've identified but is one which we will not fix." We now drive a Toyota and a Subaru. We will never again drive German cars - they are over priced, over thought out, to difficult to service, and, most importantly, undependable.
I had a Scirocco. The quality was worse than "shaky". I remember replacing the transmission and doing a valve job. And then amusing stuff like having the clutch cable fail in heavy traffic. But it was easy to repair. Lots of room and the parts were very light in weight.
My father drove Mercedes diesels in the 1980s. those things were tanks and probably could still run today had he held onto them. unfortunately they realized there's more money in making cars that don't last as long.
In 2010, I needed to replace my 2 Toyotas because they were getting really old. I decided to buy a German car because of better handling. We bought 2 new X3 and X5. They both turned out to be complete junk! The dealership was terrible and couldn’t sometimes diagnose the problem. I finally found an independent shop who told me to immediately sell my X5 because of some issues they couldn’t properly diagnose. Had similar issue with X3. Replaced both cars with Lexus RX and NX - very pleased with them. Will never buy another German car again.
It’s a real pity, because German cars (IMO) are so beautifully designed and their level of luxury and comfort remain unmatched. Would be so much nicer if you could buy one with the confidence that regular, reasonable maintenance would keep them on the road indefinitely, especially when you’re paying top dollar for them!
It truly depends. There are modern german cars that are indestructible like the BMWs with N52 and N55 engines. The modern B engine series seems to be way better too in quality.
There are still some fantastic models. People are just really lazy and don’t know which ones to look out for. The ones made in Germany are much better than the ones made in other countries. The E class especially is a very very reliable modern Mercedes. I have a 2016 model with 120,000 miles on it with absolutely zero issues. I am on top of preventative maintenance. It is very reliable this model because it doesn’t have a bunch of gimmicky things in it. For me I just can’t get myself to drive a Japanese car they are just so boring and on involving in the driving experience. The W-2 12 E class is probably the most reliable card they have made in the last 20 years and the one that I always recommend to people
Its happening since about the mit 2000s. Materials, and the quality of engineering went only downwards from there. They started to produce more of a throwaway car instead of a quality car what can even last 30 years without a problem. I think technology had a part in that aswell, as the more modern and complex systems simply cant be as robust as the older more simple technology before that. I always refused to buy a car newer then 2003-2004, as they are simply rubbish by comparison. Yes, they have a lot more extras, more powerful engines, but for what? I'm still driving cars from the early 90s, the last golden era of pretty much every major european manufacturer, and i must say, i have everything in those cars what i need in a car, even heated seats and A/C, and because they are more simple cars they are much better thought out, and instead of the fancy electronics the important parts were made of the right materials, no plastic timing chain guides for example on my cars, and i also have limited slip differential, what i think isnt even an option anymore.. but now you can have a monthly subscription to unlock extra acceleration 😂😂 pathetic, expensive, and doesnt worth it.
When I was a student I had a job as taxidriver in the Netherlands. We drove Mercedes 200 D. The quality was legendary. The feel of quality also. Everything was build to last for ever. Even with the daily abuse of our drivers the cars easily did 500.000 km and more.. I think it was one the best cars ever made..
You think 500,000 k’s is something great?! I have news for you! Australian Ford Falcon 6 cylinder petrol/ lpg Taxis are renowned to do 1 million kilometres without an engine rebuild.
500.000 is not that much for a Merc as a taxi. A 6K Euro Dacia Logan from 2005 can go 700.000 with the original engine and gearbox. Mind you only the 1.4l MPI version :D
Just a couple of words to solve reliability problem for people: Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura, Suzuki, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubisi, Isuzu, Infinity... That's about it :)
When removing plastic covers in the engine compartment to replace spark plugs recently on my 2016 VW Jetta 1.4 Turbo with 50,000 miles, I was surprised at how easily plastic tabs break off, requiring replacement. I also noticed previous damage to intake tubes from VW dealer oil change technicians who removed them to check the air filter for example, and I replaced those tubes also. The care runs and drives exceptionally well, one does not notice the turbo, only the instant throttle response, very smooth ride, yet nice handling, but concerned how the car will hold up with age. Not fair to compare to Mercedes, but I have owned or own W124, W126, and W140, from years 1986 to 1998 and when something has to be disassembled on those cars, even on the 190,000 mile car, you can put it back together properly as if nothing happened (I am a former Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz technician).
I had an Audi 80 2.6 from 1993 for 26,5 years. It regularly got rust protection as I live in Scandinavia. Eventually the dual exhaust system needed replacement and the value of the car was not worth the investment so I sold it. I really got a lot years for my original investment.
Why did you decide on the basis of the value of the car? It might not be worth much on the market but there probanly was still 20+ more years in it if you had replaced the exhaust.
Owning an Audi from this era is a labor of love. Mine is from 1995 and is a model 90, 2.8 V6. I love it enough to keep up with the inevitable repairs, it is afterall nearly 30 yrs old at this point.
My 1969 VW Bug , bought 50 years ago with 26,389 miles went 108,000miles before my brother rolled it over a concrete barrier . I then started buying used Porsche 911, they were even more reliable . One friend still owns a 1969 Porsche 911E and today 54 years later , it is still in the road . Mercedes made in the 60’s to 1980’s will last 50 years with normal maintenance.
I had two new Mercedes models in the past two years: new A200d and new W206 C220d. Both cars rattled, squeaked and had numerous software problems. Quality has taken a massive dip. I got rid of both cars after they spent on average 1week per month at the dealership as they attempted to fix the issues. I reverted back to driving Japanese cars as they are better in all aspects , specifically reliability.
Important to understand what JDP is measuring. This is IQS, or initial quality. Lot of carmakers are struggling with software and entertainment issues. Long term dependability is another indicator of quality. This is where Toyota, Lexus and to some extent brands like Porsche do far better. It’s hard to form a general opinion based on one year’s IQS, but it’s clear that German brands are struggling with digitalization more than mechanical engineering and powertrains, assembly etc. in my personal opinion, Mercedes build quality and reliability has suffered since 1991, when marketers got more power in the product planning process over engineers. VW brand has also cheapened on build quality since they have had less resources due to Dieselgate penalties.
Mechanics hate the engineers, who make these unreliable designs, who hate marketers, who push for the engineers to make unreliable designs, who hate shareholders, who push the marketers to concentrate on short term profits rather than long term reputation
@Phillip Banes That is absolutely right, the IQS actually shows German cars in a better light. JD Powers long term dependability study shows the Germans brands are really bad when they get old.
One point that is being missed here, I think, is that other manufacturers have caught up with the German quality standards. Like Napoleon who beat his opponents so many times that he taught them how to fight and was finally defeated, the same goes for the German built cars. The competition caught up with them ....
In my view, German and Japanese manufacturers are running into the same precarious situation. They are still living on the strength of their past and their image. However, they have stopped listening to their customers and are missing out on the shift towards electric mobility. What's more, VW in particular delivers poor quality, especially when it comes to software and all the plastic parts, and only offers a short warranty, at least in Germany. As a German engineer, I wouldn't buy a German car at the moment. Nor would I buy a Japanese car, because Japan is at least 5 years behind in the development of electric cars.
I think German cars design is still ahead overall. But they have become high fashion cars, too focused on style to justify their higher price. I do like what VW is bringing to the EV market though, and the GTI is still one of the best affordable sports cars. I’ve owned 4 Japanese cars (I still own 2) after owning 3 German cars, and that’s in part because they rarely break and are cheap and easy to fix, at least in the US.
Hey, I'm from germany and would like to give some insight on the car prices here. I'm not going to write all the prices down here since this would be a lot of work with all the extra's you can configure in a car nowadays. Polo GTI is more expensive than a Hyundai i20N/Fiesta ST Golf GTI is more expensive than a Hyundai i30N/Focus ST Golf GTI Clubsport is more expensive than a Civic Type R Golf R/S3 is more expensive than a GR Yaris/A35 AMG/BMW M1 after that (RS3, A45, 2 Series M car, ...) they are more or less very similar priced
I was a Golf owner for 15 years. I owned III's a IV and a V with no massive issues. I then owned 2 brand new Golf VI's in 6 months. The garage had them more than me. Injectors, dashboard, stereo, turbo, ECU and electronics all had faults. My favourite was when I unlocked the car remotely, all four windows opened. Handy in rainy Ireland. I sent them a solicitors letter and they gave my money back. I replaced the second VI with a Mk2.5 Focus and I had it from new to over 400,000km in 13 years when someone crashed into it. It was a joy to own such a trouble free car. More fun to drive too. I usually kept cars for 2-3 years but was so attached to the Ford that I couldn't replace it. Replaced that with a Corolla hybrid last year. It's too soon to say after only 62,000km, but it's a Toyota. It'll be fine. Plus 180bhp is nice.
The proliferation of plastic under hood components such as, inlet manifolds, coolant pumps , fuel rails and so on, would have been unthinkable in the 1980s.
Sometimes plastics are stronger than metals even if it seems counter intuitive. To be fair many plastic parts on my bmw are perfectly fine despite being 20 years old. Its often resonable to replace a metal part with a plastic part that weighs a tenth. I agree with you however on the use of plastic in critical components like water pumps.
@@traubengott9783 Plastic parts might be more cost-effective and durable like steel in same time. But it heavily depends from where they are used. In locations with high temeperature and/or direct sunlight presence they often melt or become britle thus fail much earlier than metal parts. Audi TT water pumps are one of such examples.
you forgot about one thing - now most engines made of aluminium alloy (lighter, less emission, more power in smaller size, less lifetime) back than it was steel engines (large, heavy, powerful and fuel hungry, but longer lifetime). Just an evolution of technologies and fast fashion
I drove a BMW 216d Active Tourer with automatic gear, got it new in 2019 and I said goodbye to it at the beginning of this year. With, mind you, 350.000 km (about 217.500 miles) under it’s belt. And I have to say: not a squeaky noise, not a problem whatsoever, never had it let me down and with a fuel consumption many car-companies can only dream of. This car still has me baffled. (Av.cons. 1 ltr on 22 kilometres)
@@traubengott9783 I did want to keep it, but my employer had other plans unfortunately. Got a Renault E-tech Hybrid… after 29.000 it just stopped. 4 blocked wheels and not an inch forward or backward. This was 2 weeks ago, they still don’t know what happened. Told my employer ‘I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so…’
Basically every manufacturer is able to produce long lasting product. But why would they do that? People wouldn't buy new products so often if their old one works just fine.
I’m a Mercedes Benz tech . They are rushing electric cars and new technology into the market without doing any testing . The customers and technicians are the ones suffering. The new 24 GLC has a software bug that will drain the battery if you lock the car too many times . There is no fix for it , a lot of Mercedes software engineers left the company . And because we’re on a flat rate pay scale , we can’t get payed to diagnose the car if there is no solution to the issue . Everything about new cars is terrible . I drive a 32 year old Volvo that gets me to work every day no issue .
Planned obsolescence. They literally design the product to last just about as long as the factory warranty. Plastic parts everywhere and an 'apple like' approach to repairability. Thats why the Japanese manufacturers outsell them (atleast outside Europe)
And in the past, planned obsolescence wasn't as easy because computer simulations weren't as accurate or accessible, so manufacturers played it safe and often 'over-engineered' components to avoid damaging their reputation. Now they can accurately tailor their components to last a certain amount of time.
Well, the other thing is it's way more expensive to fix whatever on german cars (unless VW) than other not luxury brands from other parts of the world.
If parts are cheap people will fix the cars for a lifetime, when the parts are expensive and ir requires specialized mechanics is better to let it died sooner, the fix worth more than the car sometimes.
@@mapachem4828 At one point, BMW engineered parts of their drive train to use a ridiculous combination of numerous bolts and screws for disassembly, completely unnecessary. It's like designing your wheel to have 16 lug nuggets, with 8 pairs, each having different sizes and design lol
Even Toyota and Honda are beginning to do a lot of the same BS. Toyota’s Hybrids aren’t nearly as reliable as people say they are. Neither are Honda’s. Honda’s got many issues with their 1.5t’s in the Accords, mostly blowing head gaskets. The thermostats are coming stuck open or closed from the factory in the new Tacomas. So it isn’t all fine and dandy unfortunately even with the JDM manufacturers and I’m a HUGE Honda fan.
Exactly!
During 1980s buying Mercedes was like buying a house - it was expensive, but if taken care, it could last you lifetime.
Now it is just waste of money
The Mercedes from the 80s rust very strong as most cars from that time most of them were dead after 10-12 years. The newer ones are a lot better.
@@madmikesch2453 Many people deal with rust and maintain the car.
German cars nowadays are known as expansive shiny turds in the industry. Sad to see. I miss the old diesel land yachts that Germany used to make.
@@Mladjasmilic That's easy in CA, but not in German winter with a lot of salt on the roads.
@@madmikesch2453 I am from Serbia. We have about 2 months of snow in winter and they put salt and grit on the road. But there are still many old Mercs driving around.
I am Japanese born in 1974. My grandfather owned a 1973 w116 Mercedes. Compared to the Japanese cars of that time, I loved it for its perfect ride comfort and lean and elegant appearance. I think the Japanese thought that Mercedes at the time would be able to drive high quality forever if the parts were properly replaced. Golf and bmw were similarly deified. I want the old German cars back.
💯🫡
Sad to say old is better than new they don’t make them like the use to.
You're a real fan of the Axis, I see.
Years ago I worked as a mechanic at a dealer that sold Mazda, Volvo and Mercedes cars. The mechanic that worked on the Mercedes called them quality junk and that was in the late 70's early 80's when they were still considered quality automobiles. The Mazfa and Volvo cars were actually better.
Mercedes after the mid-90s clearly shows the company's profit-first attitude.
Incorporating unnecessary gimmicks that did not contribute to the improvement of essential quality, the price was raised, and the design was adapted to the tastes of novices and playwrights.
My favorite Mercedes is a first-class car with tradition and legend, not a frivolous luxury item. It seems that the Land Cruiser, which is active in the wilderness of Africa and Australia, has more elegance than Geländewagen.
I am German and I am a mechanic. The last german Car I've owned was a 1991 BMW 525i.
That car was almost indestructable. Sold it with almost half a million Km, just because it was to uneconomical.
Means it was a car for long distance driving, which I do not have anymore.
With newer BMWs I made the experience that you have to take apart half of the car just for minor repairs and don't dare to touch anything that is made of plastic in the engine bay. Especially coolant lines or flanges. After just a few years they get so brittle that they will break easily
Im from the US and owned the same car and a 7 series from the same generation. I had to get rid of them because I moved but you are absolutely right, indestructible cars. Both had 400k KMs on them and ran just fine, I met people though that had over 800k KMs on similar models. I never had to put money into them. Now my 2005 325i.. that is a different story..
@@Gewehr_32005 is old car almost 20 years old
before 2010 all cars were really good
E39 chassis is top of quality, later models are worse than previous
how about vag engine 1.9 tdi .... AHL engine code ...2000- 2003
What brand of car do you buy instead?
I used to own a VW golf, when one of the parts broke i discovered it was made of plastic. The same part in a japanese car is made of metal and lasts the life of the car. From then on ive only owned Japanese cars. To me reliability means more than prestige. A car that goes for years and years and years with 0 worries? That's my idea of luxurious
Golden words
What part broke exactly?
@@mrpeace3860 it was a part of the cooling system that connected multiple hoses and included a valve
@@mattduin7144 That's most likely the heater control valve. Those VW pipes are mostly out of plastic and are often not cheap to even buy.
@japanwatchconnection Bullshite responded to your call. It said hello
As an engineer, I think that when car manufacturers put plastic in very important parts like water pumps, they are shooting themselves in the foot for saving some money because "the market" and the "competition", in the long run the brands suffer because reputation falls. Car brands: Just listen the engineers! They know more about reliability than the marketing department.
Modern business doesn't care. Companies today are run by sociopaths with marketing degrees who care about nothing other than the next quarterly statement and their bonuses. By the time they have destroyed the company and/or its image, they've already jumped out with their golden parachutes.
The problem there is that most of the legacy car manufacturers are making most of their profits by selling replacement parts, so the people making the decisions don't _want_ the cars to be too reliable. In fact, they want the cars to start falling apart the day after the warranty expires.
Of course in the long run they are shooting themselves in the foot, because customers eventually notice the drop in quality - and then they stop buying the cars. But the people making those decisions are not worried about the long term health of the company - they just want to get their bonuses and get out before the company goes bankrupt.
As an engineer, you should also know that „plastic“ can be more dureable than stailess steel in some cases. Its not all cheap injection mold stuff
But i agree with your last sentence so much
Unfortunately the accountants have more say than engineers in there!
As a german automotive engineer I can say its not just their own choice, its also caused by a ton of regulation making the cars worse. Also managers and purchasing departments push for the cheapest options, making our products worse. The other big issue is the focus on unnecessary features and our current view of the number of features equal the luxuriousness.
Love my 90s Mercedes btw
Basically it's the top's fault that quality's declining, even purchasing dept are pressured to buy the cheapest material as possible. There's gotta be someone strong up there in the company that said, we are not going to sacrifice quality and will buy the best material for our product at their proper cost.
Japanese car manufacturers have to produce their cars to the same European regulations as German producers yet they've maintained extremely high quality / reliability and they've invested in latest technologies all while turning a profit.
124, 201 and 140 best Mercedes ever made 🙌
@@mochipii your sentiment is admirable and I agree but those at the top of any car manufacturer (or any corporation for that matter) are responsible to one group of people and that’s the shareholders.
If a CEO or any Exec does anything that fails to maximise operating profit they will be replaced immediately by someone else. In short, cars are built at the lowest possible price to be sold at the highest price the market will bear. The exception to that are rare one offs like the Toyota GR Yaris which was built at a loss to be an advertising vehicle for Toyotas motorsport profile in WRC.
W124 the best balance
My family is very proud and very tradition oriented. They have all only owned BMWs with very few exceptions. I broke tradition by buying a Toyota and I couldn't have been happier with my decision. I've seen the BMWs go to the repair shop over and over again for mechanical failures despite them being relatively new; meanwhile my 11 yr old Toyota has never had a single issue. Keep your status symbol vehicles, I'll go with the more practical options.
I still have my 22 year old Toyota Estima. There a reason why African drive Toyota. You break down you die.
And we still have the 33 y/o 6th gen toyota corolla and still runs like a clock
Putting a higher price on a more unreliable car doesn't work in their favor. The only reason people buy them is as status symbol and anyone that knows about cars steers clear from German and American cars.
Id rather sit in a chair and look at broken e92 coupe than drive a corrola 🤷🏼♂️
Depends on how you look at cars, every one of my drives is an event in it self even tho i drive VAG TDI hatchback, but really spicy one of that :)
If you want social status with Toyota reliability you can get a Lexus anyway, even at the high end it's better, the ISF is literally a better M3 for example
German cars have been declining steadily since about the time of reunification. Instead of sound, basic design and metalurgy/materials, they became gimmick laden, under-tested, 200k throw away garbage. Their salvation has been that every other manufacturer has followed the same path....
What if German car brands take their manufacturing to China then China is taking Germany to school.
My golf mk4 367 000 km and still going in perfect condition
@@alem2412 What year is your Golf?
@@Embargoman 2002 with right service i swear it will reach 500k and i am planing not selling him at all
@@alem2412 Yet the main thing is to also check the VIN code as to most likely where your car is made.
So here is how this VIN Code thing works is on the dash board or by the side of the door.
So this is how it works the first digit is the number or letter of the country of origin of your car to say where is made.
1, 4, and 5. USA
2. Canada
3. Mexico
6. Australia
9. South America
M. Thailand
Z. Italy
V. France
W. Germany
S. UK
R. Taiwan
J. Japan
K. South Korea
L. China
Yet cars with the L as the first digit could outperform in quality of the ones that suppose to be made in the USA or Germany.
I did an internship in 2013 at a mercedes benz car dealer / workshop and was amazed how much plastic part are on these cars. Plastic clasps constantly broke and hat to be glued back on body parts. So when they say the made a new car lighter it basically means "we replaced as much metal with plastic as we could"
After enjoying and keeping my Mercedes 116, I had an excellent opinion of German quality however; bought my daughter a VW Cabrio while in school and it fell apart right before our eyes! The outside trim just fell off, the plastic interior faded and broke along with window regulators and the top was shot in 2 years!, Have stepped up and bought her 2 BMW's and both are just plastic nightmares inside the engine compartment. Door regulators gone in 50K miles and the dealers wanted $600 for 1 that I bought on the internet for 35 dollars. Inside the door every plastic clip broke and had to be glued together. Never again.
The ironic thing is that these cars are literally obese in terms of weight compared to older cars.
@@TheInsaiyan Which gets worse with all the hybrid and ev stuff
@@klugermensch5933 and especially as EV SUVs, heavy and punching a big hole into the hair on the highway and needing a lot of energy to move the thing, energy that mostly comes from fossil power from the energy grid into the EV Battery.
@@TheInsaiyan Thats because much strickter rules on Passanger safelty and also PEdestiran safelty. Bonnet design today is regulated by safelty for pedestrians not looks alone. For an example my 1993 Toyota Corolla Liftback coupe is roomier than a 2008 Liftback Prius 5 door. and it felt better sound insulated also. Drove a taxi prius for around 2 years.
Some brands need to realise that reliability is the most important aspect of luxury.
Buy Lexus then
Not Just brands, people need to, but they never will, not until they are forced to walk, hitchike or use public transport, because they can no longer afford to maintain their vehicle.
@@aygwmcame to write this comment
No it isn't
@@aygwm we did that 2 years ago and boy we were so WRONG. we still own a 2018 lexus that has been fair with 80k miles. Our 2022 gx460 was the biggest nightmare that left us stranded 300 miles from home. We lost alot trading it in but so far our (bad brand) vw atlas has taken us at least a whole oil change interval without giving us an issue. The lexus spent several weeks at the dealer and we were fed up and so was service. Engineers were Involved and we were offered a new Lexus. We said screw it. The bad brand car is cheaper and more comfortable anyways.
I work as a sound engineer in the US. I first learned on analog sound boards. Everything switch to digital sometime in the mid 2ks and has progressed further so that it’s hard to find analog boards. In the audio industry, reliability is way more important than feature sets. No one tolerates a concert being stopped in the middle, and having the sound engineer get on the mic and say ‘I have to reboot the sound board Sorry.’ The console manufactures debug these boards to the point where you can leave them on for weeks w/I problems. If you leave them on for a month, you have a problem. Why wouldn’t auto manufactures See the need to have a similar level of reliability? Seems like it’s more dangerous to be traveling at a high speed and have a computer crash, then it is to have a rock concert end early.
Before it was engineer driven now it's all about marketing and their shareholders. Planned obsolescence and perceived quality is now the norm.
Same thing everywhere, media(films, games) healthcare, politics, jobs.Monies is what system optimize itself
Hmm, that sounds distinctly like a symptom of toxic capitalism.
@@ironman8257 No lie. This is a problem everywhere like you said. People who have no idea how anything works keep becoming in charge of telling others what to do. Everything is falling apart because of it.
correctly said. The problem is mostly media which needs to show the surface of the materials but in reality they are cheap. Video editing skills increased and quality of the products are decreasing
@@luigi55125 The problem is capitalism. This is late stage. Eventually you’ll spend $1 million on something that is broken from the factory. Or pay a subscription for something that’s fully paid off, depreciated and even more broken.
With my four cars Range Rover, Porsche Macan, Toyota Corolla and a 15 year old Nissan Micra, I do one thing, ignore the manufacturer service intervals and over service engine and gearbox, take and old fashion approach to regular check overs myself, whilst it doesn’t eliminate all issues they are reduced. Oh and the best car I ever owned 2008 Lexus RX450h, 400,000km fault free (but you all knew that)!
Good advice
id never buy german, or any other axis power country car......cuz i payed attention in history class.
@@jimmyhackers8980 Would you buy a car Made in China?
China is the new Germany!
@@Embargomanno cars in general for me :), i built my own ebike out of junk parts..... 60mph and 40-50 mile range.... i have 2000watts of solar on my roof, im sure some of it came from china at some point. so its probably just as bad.
Yes, I am sad to say that I don’t listen to my car’s manufacturer recommendation on their “life time” transmission fluid and “life time” engine coolant. Engine oil could also be “life time” but just a much short life time 😂
My father had an old Toyota which he drove to Yemen. It was used in a war. The car runs the same, it had bullets fired at it, explosions happening near it. We replaced the tyres, windshield and a broken wiper fluid and clutch fluid tanks. That's all. The engine, chasis, axle, suspensions all are the same. Shows how great the build quality is.
You know the specific model and year ?
@@mr.sanford8588 Toyota hilux
@@TerrorBlade66 I would figure it would be one of those. LOL
@@timchamberlin9280 Not better. But they make simpler cars.
@@timchamberlin9280 Headlight wipers were mandatory, for a reason, to even be allowed to sell a car in Sweden in the 80's :)
So all cars had them here.
"Planned obsolescence" is the name of the game. The manufacturers could not keep selling cars if they were so durable that the customers would not need to buy another one.
all these cars are made by computers these days, they know exactly how many miles/km the parts will last, they focus on the time the first owner takes to change cars, thats how long the parts will last
@@hondofitty - Exactly ! The manufacturers think of the used car buyers as the enemy.
@@hondofitty A bit unrelated but i had 2 identical samsung phones from 2013 , used in almost same circumstances , one started having screen issues with green lines and not turning on and in an unbelievable 1 week difference the second phone got the exact same defect, both phones work perfectly other than the screen and the cost to replace a now 10 year old screen (but when it broke it was more like 7) is the price of an equivalent entire phone. The only way it lasted that long was because their software wasn't fully updated, so it was fast and snappy while everyone I knew that updated it had freezes, overheating and worse animation freezes that even effected the ability to answer calls, the most basic feature. It's multi layered planned obsolescence.
Then why is Toyota the biggest car company in terms of value
driven by greed and capitalism
so, you are telling me according to j.d. power that land rovers and jaguars and jeeps are more reliable than most german car brands is hard to believe. i am still amazed that apparently alfa romeo which is known for horrible reliability is more reliable and better quality than audi. also this list suggests many American car manufacturers are more reliable than toyota which probably has the strongest image of reliability in the world.
You have to remember that for the USA, German manufacturers produce cars in Mexico and the US.
Also, Italian cars have proven to be reliable across the board recently.
As Americans know, JD power surveys are nonsense. Pay for rankings, too. The cited survey is “initial quality” which could even mean someone is confused with infotainment operation.
But are German autos at the top under a more realistic measure? No
Yet the best selling Buick is made in China as to test grounds seems that China is outperforming Germany.
@@Embargoman This is your third post claiming China is building high quality cars. Are you a wumao?
@@Embargoman China will never outperform anything from anywhere. Because everything made in China has always been made poorly and to a price point. Hence why in less than 15 months it falls apart.
Mercedes of the past were designed and manufactured by the engineers and then the accountants figured out how much to sell it for. Now the accountants dictate how much to sell it for and the engineers have to design and manufacture it to that price point.
Correct. And now they are (like all other German cars) overpriced for what they are. In fact you could say that most cars from all over the world are these days!
True, very true
That's how they all work now. What will the market pay, and build to that.... its called commerce.
I do very light design work. And yes. They are "ALWAYS" trying to find the cheapest part to do the job, then when stuff don't act right. It's my fault.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 you are very right.
I was in the design world too and appreciate your comment.
Impossible deadlines, unrealistic expectations, impractical specifications, the whole lot with bells and whistles on top….at zero cost 😏
I am an American that has purchased many cars over my time. I’ve had all from Ford, GM, Chrysler to Audi, BMW Mercedes and even Kia Honda and Toyota’s. Out all I’ve had, my Toyota and Mazda are by far the must reliable vehicles I’ve bought. In my opinion based on what I’ve had, the Japanese by far have superior engineering and quality. Both have over 200,000 miles with no problems outside of normal wear and tear (tires, breakers, bulbs etc..)
I own a 12 year old V6 Acura with over 100k miles. It has never needed a repair and the engine still runs like new. I expect to get 300k+ miles out of it if I choose to do so. My mechanic is always trying to buy it off of me.
They dont have superior engineering. But they use simpler solutions that are more reliable but doesnt perform quite as well.
@@martinsvensson6884 They definitly have superior engineering. Or if not engineering, at least superior build quality. It's a shame that all the companies in the world are ditching quality for profit margins and planned obsolesence.
@@norwegianblue2017 Honda also has a solid car. Now that they got away from timing belts (most models) and went to timing chains, there are bulletproof.
@@jayyoutube8790the timing belt v6 engines are known for being very reliable, not just the smaller engines
I owned a Mercedes 1973 SLC automatic in the late 90s for 5 years. Fantastic build quality and was very reliable. Recently, i bought a Mercedes estate which is full of endless niggles and problems and the interior is plasticky and lacks refinement as well. Will buy Japanese next. Had a couple of Mazda's before and they were faultless and fun to drive.
I was a big VW fan in the 80’s as a teenager starting with the bug, Scirocco, Ghia, and GTI (1983-84). When I got out of college and could afford to buy my first car was a brand new off the showroom floor 1991 GTI. Long story short it started falling apart right away. Sold it within 2 years and I’ve never purchased another VW and probably never will. I’m in my late 50’s now and have always told that story and directed people towards more reliable brands. Build a solid car that will last well beyond the payments and your customers will sell your cars for you.
Hey Dan, thanks for sharing your story with us. What brands did you end up going with after you sold your GTI? We're curious!
@@DWREV I'm not Dan, but I have a similar car history. I have driven Hondas since my last VW. I'm generally satisfied with Honda, but they're not perfect. A 2001 Odyssey had to have 3 transmissions.
the golf mark 2 gti was basically indestructible. here in Europe they are still driving around. without a new engine and with the first paint. I think you were just unlucky. or cheated by the car dealer
Same story here. as a teen I read all the auto rags C&D, R&T and Automobile. I was convinced that European cars were superior to North American and Japanese brands. Then I bought my first new car - a VW Rabbit (Golf everywhere else). Loved driving it - handled great and was fun to drive. It was terribly unreliable and cost a fortune to repair. In 4 years I drove it 100 thousand km and the repairs cost more than the purchase price. I'll cut it some slack - it was a 1974, the first. year for the Mark I in the US and I think the changes that had to be made to meet US regulations didn't help it. Now the theme around German cars in the US is great cars while under warranty, then dump it and be prepared to take a beating on depreciation unless you leased it.
I've had 1980 VW. Had them up to 1 million KM. And another one i sold at 680 000 km. Best car i ever owned.
The biggest red flag is plastic parts in the engine bay. That’s unreliability at its peak. I mean how can you be so sure that the plastic in throttle body won’t snap under high pressure and temperature. That’s just one example. A few years down the line they might start making 3D printed engine blocks
In Toyota we still see a lot of metal components in the engine bay. This shows the level of respect for buyers.
@@dragospahontu still not the most reliable car brand :) Toyota also had massive callbacks
I found the non-engineer in the comment section. Plastics, in my opinion are bad due to their inability to be recycled. Other than that, Plastics are extremely strong and if they do not see crazy heat cycles, where they can warp, they do pretty well.
Also ALL manufacturers have been using plastics since the early 2000. I have several cars with nearly 200K miles with plastics and they are doing fine. I would prefer metal as when the car reaches its death, that metal compound can be recycled a lot better than a plastic part, which will not be reused and will live in a land field for eternity.
Toyota uses lots of plastics too.
@@HippasosofMetapontum my dad's 20 year old Toyota avensis has done hundreds of kilometers with no oil and a misfiring piston. Yes the damage is permanent but the car still got to its destination. It runs fine today. I don't think there are many cars from other brands that would cope as well as the typical toyota sedan in such a scenario.
@@dragospahontu why always toyota, a new honda also dont have that much plastic in the engine bay, it is like jap=toyota only 😅
It’s not just reliability, it’s durability, longevity and most importantly the ability to maintain and repair them. My ;last two BMWs became uneconomic to repair not much past 100k miles. Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems, control and sensors, these so called luxury brands just become “Money Pits” to keep on the roads, it’s now cheaper to lease a new German car than buy a 5 year old secondhand one. Car design is now driven by sales and marketing, not engineers in my opinion, the quality doesn’t go past the cabin materials and driver controls, everything else is cheap, poor materials and not designed to last past the first lease contract.
You might want to try a Lexus or Acura, that's true luxury
This comment captures the essence of it👍
"Nothing is designed to be taken out, engines can’t be stripped down, head gaskets can’t be replaced. Combined with the levels of modern complex systems," To be fair, none of that is true. The TH-cam channel M539 Restorations is constantly doing those kinds of repairs on BMWs. A laptop with BMW ISTA software is required for coding modules.
Compare an old w126 S class to the new S class.. Old one is classy, drives like a tank, and looks timeless.. parts are still available. The new S class looks sissy and from far away you do not now if it is a Kia or Mercedes.. Good luck fixing the new S class.
The article pretty much nailed it. German vehicles are full of new tech and that means some ironing out of bugs and figuring out best practices (of manufacturing). There is a reason Honda and Toyota are so reliable. They wait until tech is mastered before they introduce it in their vehicles.
Mercedes = first with ABS, first with air bags, first with keyless entry, etc.
But the real push to the latest tech came in the late 90s when BMW started to do the same. Around that time, Mercedes also merged with Chrysler...and sacrificed some durability for profits. That is why late 1990s to 2010 was a bad time for Mercedes.
Tech is still a big thing with Mercedes/BMW/etc. and that means expensive repairs once out of warranty. Remember that cars depreciate with time/mileage...labor and parts DO NOT. That $100k German car will still cost like $100k German car when it comes time to service it.
Generally agree with your observation. Unfortunately with more of the component design being carried out by vendors even Honda and Toyotas are breaking. Problems with incorrectly machined bearings are causing a mess on the Tacoma trucks being built this year.
German cars now are very expensive to maintain,parts are hard to come by,and installing them is a nightmare. Eg.Replacing a car battery on a BMW requires the computer to be reprogrammed. While on a Toyota the computer programmes itself,simply drive the car to reprogram it. My former college classmate had a VW Tiguan. The A/C compressor failed and cost more than $1000 just for the part. So he replaced it with a Japanese A/C compressor for less than $300. Works perfect.
Partly true… that’s true on cars made after the early 2000’s with German cars because of too much technology installed instead of paying attention to the quality.
I wouldn’t touch most VW’s with a 10 foot pole. That Tiguan is made in Pueblo ,Mexico. That’s why it goes wrong. The Mexicans are not known to build a high quality item apart from Tacos 🌮
@@jasonknight5863all the VW fanboys keep saying that but there is no difference in reliability from Mexican to a German VW. TH-camrs Humblemechanic and Deutsch Auto Parts have debunked that. The only reliable modern VWs were the ones equiped with the 07k and tdi engine that's it.........
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo we had a VW Toureg and when I would go in to get it serviced at the VW dealership. I’d would always see guys coming in looking for new parts at the parts counter. I’d make sure to listen to see what model it was for. It was always for the Jetta… all Jetta’s are Made in Mexico. Says it all really.
You cannot replace brake pads without the rotors. They are dreadful.
@@jasonknight5863 Same at Napa Auto Parts since I almost always shop there for replacement filters for my Toyota. When I saw the shelves for the coolant I wondered why is the newest coolant for VW's aka Pentofrost E $22 for a 1.5Liter bottle and Zerex G40 (VW calls it G12++) coolants are mostly gone and more expensive than most other types including for Asian vehicles. Turned out that VW cooling systems have a ton of problems. Many people rather go for something works for less money so they settle on the Zerex G40 coolant which is interchangeable with G13.
If you can’t afford a brand-new German made car,
…you certainly can’t afford second-hand German made car.
People need to understand this.
I heard somewhere that to be financially able to get a used Mercedes car, you have to be able to afford a brand new one, but it applies to all German premium car makers, in the end
Thats just not true lol.
@@roarbahamut9866 It's a joke about how expensive parts and labor are on German cars.
@@EibarwomanYeah, as they say “if you can afford a monkey, you must afford banana too”
As a German living in Japan, I got a Prius, and can only recommend going with Toyota as often as possible.
I've owned over 100 cars from many car brands. American, Japanese, Korean, German, and Swedish. I can say with absolute confidence that Japanese cars are the most reliable and the easiest to work on. American and Korean cars are about the same with average reliability and repairability. German cars are the most fun and engaging but they also have an abundance of cheap plastic parts in critical areas (such as cooling and oiling systems) and they are by far the hardest to service.
But Japanese cars are extremely boring and poorly designed. Just their interiors alone make me depressed.
A car that fails to start and run makes me the most depressed of all!@@user-d32658
@@user-d32658Japanese cars are fundamentally boring and very very safe. Completely different markets. I don’t get this video, German cars are sports and luxury cars made for going on the Autobahn and the track.
Same here. I've owned Toyotas and Hondas. Toyotas are easily my favorite cars and do exactly what I expect from them, that is, get my reliably from A to B, they rarely break down and when they do, you parts are very reasonably priced.
@@mutkaluikkunen3926 Life is too short to drive boring cars.
I've been a avid buyer of German cars for years, as was my family. My dad had a S500 in 1997, and still owns it today. It's bombproof. 600,000 miles and counting. My first German car was a 3 Series in 2005, It was great. Since then I've owned a 1 Series, an E Class and a Tiguan, all new and all had issues. The E class was a joke. Rusting doors at 18 months old. Whole new engine at 21k miles at a year old, rattles and creaks were always present. It wasn't worth the money. The 1 Series had a issue with a intermittent misfire that they couldn't fix under warranty, it also had a ECU failure a few weeks after the warranry expired. The Tiguan caught fire and nearly killed me, VW didn't care. My wife and I now own Lexus's. No problems, built perfectly and never putting a foot wrong. It's a shame, I loved owning BMW and Mercedes, but they are not worth the premium anymore. I never brought them for the bragging rights of owning luxury German cars, just that I wanted quality and dependability, they didn't deliver on those promises.
I was pinned with a 97 Camry for the last 20 plus years, it looks like it jumped the Grand Canyon and never broke once...never. I missed out on years of car frustrations and grievances.
I completely follow u. Im disgusted with my Beamer and BEamer/Merc in general these days. Greed kills.
@notfiveo which parts specifically are you referring to that's "cheap plastic" and a major cause of breakdowns on German cars. This sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about because Toyotas absolutely do NOT use more metal parts than German cars.
The number one reason why German cars seem unreliable to non-Germans is due to the attitude of German engineers. They expect everyone to follow the maintenance schedule and obey it religiously, and they engineers the cars to work with such. Toyota engineers their cars to be abuse by customers.
@@gamesguy the the Japanese stuff are more durable.
@@MrSamPhoenix nope, same plastic parts in a Toyota. The difference is Toyotas can function with looser tolerances.
It's in fact very simple. A colleague of mine always told potential customers: "do you want it to be modern and with a lot of electronics, or reliable". He is still right.
I don't understand why my Hudson is so underappreciated.
Tell that to Lexus
In BMW case since 2010+ there are not just electronics issues, there are issues with every single aspect of them.
Lies again? Grab Car HDB Paris
What happened is they caught up with the rampant hyperconsumerism. What does it matter how reliable a car is past warranty if the owner changes the car by that point bc it wasn't even their property- it was on a lease like majority of new German cars "sold".
We're in the age of planned obselecence and disposable commodities. My grandma's old Soviet washing mashine still works and it only needed one part changed in the last 20 years. My uncle's E38 still runs like clockwork and all he does is basic maintanance. I have an alarm clock my dad was using in his 20's and it still works after 40 years and all it needed was one transistor a year ago bc of a power surge we had.
Things used to be made to last but that isn't proffitable enough. Companies need us to continously buy new stuff so they made it last less.
Nearly everything is made to milk you for every last penny you're worth. We're cattle to be worked to death and made to spend money on stuff.
That's also why there is this massive push for subscriptions everywhere- ideal customer is one that doesn't own anything and continues to spend.
Thankfully there are still companies that do make products that last. In automotive space it's brands like Toyota, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, etc.
I live in the UK and drive mainly Honda and Toyotas. I love the design, performance, and particularly the refinement and interiors of German cars, and the heritage of engineering behind them. Unfortunately, what has happened is that manufacturers and their friends, the reviewers, have convinced us all that perceived quality is better than engineering quality, and the emphasis is now on appearance, and interior materials. Almost everybody I know with a German car (including my favourite Audi) has had issues with them. In my opinion, it's putting too many unnecessary systems and gadgets into them. That said, Lexus equip their cars well and the internal systems seem also to stand up to the test of time well.
Exactly this, even though it may not be as luxurious as the german counterparts lexus is probably the best option if you want luxury without the downsides of luxury.
You'll hardly ever have any problems and in the rare cases you do it won't cost you an arm and a leg to fix it, it's something you can safely bet it will last for decades.
Just don't do what my uncle did when his Mercedes became too much of a headache. He replaced it with a Jaguar.
@@billolsen4360 I love Jaguars, Bill, but I'm too much of a coward. I've been running Hondas and Hyundais for the past 20 years, and haven't had a single failure yet.
Very accurate original comment. Cheers from Germany.
@@Rondo2ooo I think they're getting on top of it now - the BMW 1 series seems to be very reliable again, like BMW used to be. I love the Audi A6 and A8, great cars.
I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad. We also liked VW a lot. Its shameful how bad VW and Audi have gotten. I hope these companies address these issues seriously. Right now me and my dad have a Honda Civic and a Mazda 3. Great cars.
What I have seen in the US is that newer German cars will incur a cost to repair that exceeds the car's value within about ten years. It is so much cheaper for parts and labor on American and Asian cars. American cars, especially, have come a long way in the past 10-15 years. Especially on the performance end.
You should by a Alfa Romeo 😍😍😍
@@Razby07 yep Alfa Giulia is cool
"I’m Italian. When I’m growing up, Mercedes Benz is a dream for me and my dad" Sorry to hear. 🙃 I prefer Alfa Romeo myself. If you are going to have a prestige car, do it in style I say! 😊 The Busso V6 is iconic!
Mazda 3, mine is 13 years old and has never faltered or let me down only the batteries have died and were replaced.
I bought a VW Polo TSI thinking of the German reliability reputation of the past. Boy I was so wrong, and finally realized that reliable German cars were those in the 90s, not in 2010..
Dump the VW and went back to Toyota instead.. VW's reputation is falling into the drain in Southeast Asia market..
90s design but 2000s built is best imo. mk4 golf, B5/C5 VW/Audi :P And even then don't get more than 4 cylinders.
Poor quality of German products is not limited to cars. Siemens, Bosch washing,achines used to last a lifetime. We got a 1980 Siemens washing machine that still works. New machines for the other house broke in less than 4 years. The last time BMW made a great car was the BMW 2002. Mercedes W123 series are very reliable, easy to repair and many went over 1,000,000 Km. New S Class are a money pit after warranty expires.
After retiring from the auto mechanics trade and the assembly line (I built fire trucks) I had a five year stint working at a popular auto parts store. Image-conscious people of limited means often purchased high end German luxury cars that were 10 to 15 years old with 150,000+ miles on them. Cars that originally sold for $80,000-$100,000 could easily be had for $10,000-$12,000 each. However, whenever the owner of one of these cars came into the auto parts store and asked for a typical usually high-end component, such as a starter, alternator, radiator, air conditioning blower motor, etc. I would type in the year, make, model, engine, size , and desired part. I would then turn the screen to the customer and just point at the price. The look on their face coupled with “ARE YOU CRAZY?!!!!” - Priceless!
Even french cars and some engines are better these days and that says a lot...
"Overengineered expensive money pits" . I 'm converted too to japanese cars.
@@MrSparklespring I am now in Airport Transportation driver. At 217,000+ miles on the original engine and transmission my 2013 Hyundai Sonata was my business vehicle and is now my run around town car. The only problem I had out of that car was the stereo head went cuflewie and Hyundai replaced it under warranty. I now have a 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander that is about to click over 95,000 miles. No issues to speak of with either vehicle.
There's a saying in the industry that you may buy a €100,000 car for €10,000 some years down the line but when you go to repair it it's still a €100,000 car.
When you get a 100000$ car expect to pay parts in proportion of that. Also when the car is old... People don't realize that.
Very sadly, I feel like Lexus have almost become what Mercedes used to be in terms of quality. The problem is that I’m not very keen on Lexus designs so I don’t buy one. Instead I use a new Honda civic for the family and I drive a 1983 380SE.
Check out JZS147 and SC300 models..... Even older gs400 or LS models are proven.
W126 man🫡
Sounds like my neighbour; dissing the Rolls Royce Cornice, saying the quality have dropped in recent years, goes ahead and buys an 19 year old Kia.
Mazdas are very reliable and pleasing to the eye
2005 Lexus ES330. Got it at 182k miles. At 217k miles I had rehabbed the transmission as best i could with fluid changes but the damage was done. The previous owner never changed the trans fluid. Theres a drain plug and fill port! Sadly I could not save the car. There was mild engine sludge and the leather had dried out in the hot leather sun. It still cruised the highways really nicely with more than enough power. I ended up starting from much better position with a 2 year old Prius. This will be my last car purchase. After that I'm done. Hopefully autonomous cars are a thing in 7 years.
I've had a mix of german and japanese cars; Volkswagens and Mazdas. My Volkswagens always had problems (one assembled in Pueblo, MX, and the other in Wolfsburg, DE) and it's part of the experience. I'm not sure if the build quality is necessarily bad, but engineering often drives problems like choice of switches and regulators. The front fenders on my 2009 GTI rotted out surpringly early (worse than my Mazda Protege). My GTI had a DSG box and it was the main reason I got rid of it. I'd still consider a Volkswagen, but I have to wait a few model years before they sort out their issues. With a German car, you really need a warranty. I don't think American cars are much better though, and Korean cars feel like excellent products out of the bag but are fairly disposable after 12-15 years.
All of my Mazdas on the other hand were almost flawless. They all have very thin sheetmetal and paint, and their corrosion resistance is still to this day a little subpar, but otherwise they are some of the best built vehicles I've ever had the pleasure of driving. My current 2014 Mazda3 has 150k km and runs like the day I took delivery almost 10 years ago and it was part of the very first batch of its generation. Mazda did it right the first time. I'd never take that chance with a Volkswagen.
And lastly, the fun-to-drive aspect of German cars has completely evaporated. They all feel like insulated video games now, even cars like the GTI and BMW M-cars. So there's no more motivation to going the extra mile in getting it to run right; it's not even fun anymore. The Japanese still have interesting and fun products with excellent reliability. It's hard to go elsewhere.
You nailed it on the 'fun' part. German cars are leaden and sludgy, like driving through an inch of treacle.
absolutely agreed with the fun part. i daily drive a 2010 N16 Sunny that is based on a 2001 car platform architecture, got to drive a 2017 Golf TSI from a friend of mine. The steering wheel feel and feedback was hands down the worst steering feel out of any car i have ever driven. And since i live in a shithole and car reliability is compulsory, his VW is already falling apart.
A lot of The engineering also goes into not being serviceable. If it brakes don't fix it. (Buy another One)
Mazda 6 diesel (2015) was a complete money pit! for me. I think cars in general are becoming more unreliable due, in large part, to planned obsolescence.
The jd powers survey is fundamentally flawed. It is not the complaints in the first year that matter, it is the percentage of cars built in a model year that are still on the road which expose the quality cars and the junk
yeah, i had to laugh when they said American cars were ranked the highest. They are clearly bought and paid for.
One issue, is that German autos are not designed to be easily repaired. I have owned two successive Audi’s and have close friends with BMW’s and Mercedes.
Simple repairs can require a complete disassembly of the entire front end, just to get to a $15 part. This leads to more shop time - $$$ - and more opportunities for other systems or components to fail.
That's because low center of gravity "fun to drive". Also fit all the mass inside the wheel base "fun to drive".
Haha, at least you don't own a Subaru where pulling an engine is pretty much a standard affair for any engine related repairs.
That's not just limited to German cars anymore these days most modern cars are very challenging to service.
Correct, they are designed to be quickly and easily assembled in the factory.
The truth is they never were any better than cars from other countries.
The main problem with German cars (and in particular BMW and Mercedes) stems from the fact that they use complicated and innovative engineering, as pointed out in the video. This has always been the case, with Mercedes vehicles back in the early 70's for example sporting fuel injection, overhead camshafts, 4-wheel independent suspension & disc brakes etc as standard features, while vehicles from the US & elsewhere where still back in the stone age comparatively with their carburettors, pushrods, solid axels and drum brakes.
Now this in itself isn't necessarily a problem if all the individual components that make up these complicated parts and assemblies are of high quality, however nowadays many of the most basic components have been cheapened in order to save a few cents here & there in production costs, resulting in these complicated parts and assemblies failing both predictably and on a regular basis, resulting in huge repair costs. Modern BMW's for example are notorious for oil leaks due to the installation of poorly designed seals of poor quality into the heart of these complicated and expensive parts and assemblies; these cheap substandard seals are not fit for purpose and will always fail after a relatively short period of time, usually shortly after the end of the warranty period has been reached.. Another example is Mercedes using cheap hydraulic hoses on their self-levelling suspension systems in recent decades; the hoses burst after a few years of use, however cannot be simply pulled-off and replaced for a few bucks as they are built into the assembly itself; the entire integrated suspension strut assembly must be instead replaced, costing thousands of dollars for each unit (of which four are fitted to each vehicle). This is the sole reason for the huge depreciation in values of used Mercedes & BMW vehicles in particular (and most European makes in general); a vehicle that cost well over $200K new is often worth only $20K or less after 9 or 10 years due to the huge cost of replacing all these expensive components that will inevitably fail around this time.
Of course, this kind of thing is common across most manufacturers nowadays however the difference is that luxury marks like BMW and Mercedes charge a premium for this perceived "superior German quality" which in reality no longer exists, and the substandard replacement parts are then also triple the price of other makes due to being "quality German parts", which they are in fact not. So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses.
Excellent explanation
I believe the German auto industry has gone about complicating the living daylights out of their cars, much to the chagrin of the owners who have to deal with their cars when the trouble codes start mounting. (How many computer modules does a car REALLY need?)
On the other end of the spectrum, look at how many air-cooled VWs are still running today...mine included. The Beetle was a car without pretense, and its beauty lies in its simplicity, and slow-but-steady changes over its 65 year production run. I'll keep my Super Beetle, thank you.
"So the only people to benefit from this (as also pointed out in the video) are these companies' shareholders through excess and undeserved profits, and their CEO's & upper management who receive generous profit-based performance bonuses."
Workers and the State of Saxony have seats on the board making those decisions.
That's an excellent summary! If only the parts used were of high quality, it would do wonders for their reputation. BUT Mercedes, BMW and Audi vehicles sell (or lease) very well any way, so why should they increase their costs and decrease their profits? You can see why they have no incentive to bother to increase component quality.
@@TassieLorenzo with chinese evs comming they will have to.
The JD power list is hillarious to me. The fact that US is at the top and even japanese brands below says enough to me
It's hilarious. Everyone knows American cars are poor quality and unreliable. That's why we, European and Japanese consumers, don't buy them.
It is because they factor things as infotainment & electronic issues while the mechanical reliability metrics only take into account the period where the cars are new. Aside from build quality, the lack of sophisticated electronics in the 90s Japanese cars is the main reason they earned their reputation as "reliable". I seriously doubt that modern Toyotas with all-digital dashboards etc will last 20 years.
I agree 100% American cars are at the top of the list of most unreliable in the world. Wouldn't by anything but the truck from them. Cars and suvs are a waste of money, cheaply made. Pay attention at the gaps in between doors, no gap is the same dimension. This is something Japanese and European car manufacturers have dealt with a long time ago.
US manufactures had a massive come back. Investing in quality was the only way to compete. I am not surprised. German car manufacturers went crazy by letting the cookie cutter BWL graduates into the leadership seats.
ask any european about a list where mitsubishi is near jaguar and alfa romeo on the list, and you'll know how reliable that list is.
here's a better metric: the type of cars you mostly see on tow trucks, ie those that left you stuck on the road.
but also take into account that if everyone is driving buick, then buick will have most problems. because it's the only car on the road.
They lost the plot. Over two decades I had purchased four 5 series sedans in a row. One day I was presented with a $2500 bill for a headlight. Are you kidding? Then you look around at the $25MM dealership, yup, they need putzes to pay for this Taj Mahal. Brand destroying BS. BMW used to be a car guys car, small dealerships where the owner would be heading out to the local track on the weekend. They didn't keep it real, sneezed all the little dealers out and now its just overpriced BS tripping. Haven't bought one since that headlight incident.
They made a great car but forgot the customer also expects from a premium car quality, longevity and reasonable repair costs/total cost of ownership
It’s all about money, of course. It’s always about money. The parts are expensive. They’re made so only the dealers can program the computer systems. Even a simple oil change is made to sound like a major service. They are very greedy and that’s the bottom line.
I drive a BMW E39 and its running beautiful. No strange noises, no cheap materials used inside.
Its golden. I would never trade it for a new BMW.
E39 was peak BMW, it is easy and cheap to repair and lasts forever. Don't get rid of that gem!
Yep. MY E39 has 228k miles and it's still going strong.
Psss my 1971 ford taunus has 700k kilometers still original engine. Completely rust free.
I remember how mortified I was when my mom bought her fully loaded 2017 Jetta and the interior was cheaper than the 2003 Jetta I’d had in high school. The screen is all that’s important in new cars
Yes and also the first thing to be outdated also. I am glad my old banger has no screen but my phone screen.
bro what do you expect from the cheapest German manufacturer?
I used to be a German car fanboy, then I started working at a repair shop focusing on the German brands. Now I hate them all except for Porsche. The engineering decisions that lead to a simple seal taking hours to replace for example, the cost cutting in the engine bay, electronics, and the neutering of once legendary tuning divisions M and AMG turned me away and I will tell anyone to buy Asian.
I bought a 20 year old, Lupo, and at the same time my friend bought a brand new VW,. In the three years since , my Lupo has never let me down and my friend’s VW breaks down constantly. It’s also very expensive to repair, so she recently got rid of it and bought a Honda.
She did well…but I’m curious why do you say Lupo and than VW…Lupo is VW and her VW is what…Lupo?
@@zdenekkindl2778 sorry, I couldn’t remember what the name of her VW was. It had 3 rows of seats
Brand new VW is on warranty and has zero cost in money to repair for the owner.
I wonder what issues your friend had with the car.
That's why it's called a vee trouble you
@@tombassman I think it's called the VW Sharan if I'm not mistaken. It's like a plus-sized Golf I think, but now discontinued in favour of more SUV production.
These companies today only care about making money for shareholders. Ferrari management was under the same pressure from its shareholders to increase the model range of Ferrari and produce a cheaper model to increase sales and profits. Ferrari said NO. They told their shareholders that the famous Italian brand was not going to be diminished in order to make a quick buck. Well done Ferrari!!
and then they made an SUV...
And now they have over a dozen models listed on their website…
Ferraris are the shittiest cars in the world when it comes to reliability, even a billion times worse than a 80ies Yugo or a 70ies russian moskvich.
Their Success is: They sell dreams, not cars. You want to rake in blonde bimbos? Humiliate yourself, buy a Ferrari, even if the dealers make you hop through 1000 loops.
Don't forget that Ferrari also treats their customers like crap. They pretty much ONLY care about their brand.
I got myself a BMW E36 as a first car and after 4 years of ownership yes it needs its repairs from time to time but they are CHEAP and after all those years they are well deserved. My dad's VW Tiguan is another story. Not to mention the feel of building quality and driving experience. Instead of those factors improving in a newer car they declined noticably.
Well the difference is that the BMW E36 was Made In Germany back in the 1990’s when BMW actually made high quality well put together cars that lasted a long time. Then BMW in the early 2000’s started getting smart and thought they would give themselves bigger year over year profits by making more poorer quality cars with more plastic parts which meant higher profits for the dealerships because they had to be brought back to fix them way more often.
I’m not surprised about the VW Tiguan they are made in Pueblo Mexico as are most VW’s that they sell in the U.S apart from the Golf GTI. That’s the only one they still make in Germany 🇩🇪. The only one from that company I would touch.
Ya, I have an E39 with 228k miles and it has been great car. Yes, it's needed work from time to time but once you get away from the dealers, there are mechanics that can keep it up at a reasonable price.
My son bought a 2016 VW Jetta. The left headlight and the marker lights keep burning out, once a year. We have a 2012 Ford F150 with the same miles (50K....) I don't remember the last time I replaced the headlights on the truck.
In 2015 i worked in call center for a second hand car parts store for about 9 months, all the calls i got through out my time there were for german cars (note to the reader: i got about 60-80 calls a day) and almost none for japanese cars no matter the year of manufacturing...that speaks volumes...
Might also be because of your customer base. That can either be the customers them selves prevering to call over online shopping. And the parts you guys supplied at the time. A broad assortment of German parts will get you those customers
@@marnixkamminga8083 COPE 😂
There might be a reason for that: More customers with german cars than japanese cars.
amen
This is quite true. When I was a child Mercedes was a brand of absolute quality; recently in my country there have been reports of Mercedes having to be returned owing to shoddy quality (and for many years Japanese brands have higher resale value)
In America you can get a used BMW dirt cheap but it's gonna be really expensive to keep it running. Some people buy them and drive them to death like you used to do with Chevy Chevettes.
@@missano3856Were Chevettes expensive to repair? Or were you only comapring the tendency of poor people to buy them and run them until the wheels fall off?
They were pretty basic cars so I can't imagine a new alternator or water pump was very expensive. I knew a guy who took a Honda civic and put an outboard boat motor fuel tank on the roof instead of replacing the fuel pump.
In the US German cars are seen as awesome, luxurious, and powerful, but also as endless money pits. They break down quickly and replacing the countless cheap plastic parts and other expensive components make them a subpar choice overall.
My first Mercedes was a 1980 300D. I loved that car! It was noisy and slow, but it was a tank. I felt proud and safe. No problems for the 3 years I owned it. Fast forward 44 years and I have a S550 4matic. I enjoy this car too, but live with the knowledge that something is going to go wrong with it and it may cost more to fix it that is prudent to invest. I am looking at alternatives for the next car. The fine art of "how to lose a loyal customer".
Had a Mercedes rental car in Germany in 2001. It was beautiful, only had 4,000 miles on it. Drove it from the airport, stopped for lunch. When I tried to drive away after lunch, there was a "DO NOT DRIVE - BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE" message. They brought me a different Merc. It had a panel on the door that kept falling off and landing against my leg. Pretty much convinced me to never buy a Merc.
In a Renault, a slightly low brake fluid level will trigger a "BRAKE SYSTEM FAULT" when driving on an incline even though the brakes work perfectly fine. (This was an older model where the brakes were still manual-hydraulic, not brake-by-wire where the ABS system activates the brake and the brake pedal is electronic.) The actual fault was just a leaking (low quality) seal causing a slow brake fluid leak and hence the fluid to slosh away from the sensor when driving on a hill. Sometimes too much sophistication in the electronics can cause erroneous fault codes, I think. I can see how someone who didn't know how hydraulic brakes work could be startled by the error message.
@@TassieLorenzo Still losing brake fluid cause potential danger in long term. in one day you may find that in literally hard and painful way.
@@KrotowX I replaced the leaking clutch line dampener later, it's a common fault on those Meganes (2.0 F4R turbo). The seal on the dampener perishes and causes a slow leak. I did so by replacing the clutch line with a braided line (on the Megane, the clutch shares the same reservoir as the brakes, hence the brake fault message due to combined reservoir). Though in hindsight if I could have found the right fitting to cap off where the clutch dampener attached to the factory clutch line that would have worked too and been cheaper than replacing the entire clutch line. 🙂
@@TassieLorenzo Wow. I applaud to people who find ingenous way how to lose brakes and clutch in one go 😀
@@KrotowX "Because French". To clarify, the leak on these Megane RS and Megane GT models is a very slow leak. There is still more than enough fluid in the reservoir to operate both systems, the fault message triggers just when driving on a hill where the fluid sloshes away from the sensor. I topped the reservoir up at the first opportunity and ordered the parts for the repair.
Quality is not by default in German cars and the problem of increasingly defective German automobiles is exacerbated by adding more software and electronics which multiplies the number of glitches.
Looks like Made in China 2025 be in process China surpass Germany in quality.
an equivalent Japanese car has the same number of tech and features than a german car ... meanwhile even better infotainment sometimes but still Lexus is the most reliable brand right now.
Bs excuse
@Phillip Banes Probably because they don't pay software developers well (when we compare them with other countries, like the UK, Switzerland, etc.).
Over Engineered and cheap parts. Period.
I grew up blue-collar in the US. At that time, a German car (especially a Mercedes) was the ultimate status symbol known for its high engineering standard. I worked hard and became successful, and in the early 2000s, I purchased a Mercedes sedan. Unfortunately, that was a mistake. The engine would balk with heavy acceleration, and the quality control was atrocious. I had electronic display panels replaced multiple times, and very rudimentary items like two door handles and the cigarette lighter literally disconnected from the car. Repair and maintenance costs were through the roof, and the dealer always seemed to find an additional expensive repair when I brought the car in for anything, including an oil change. After a few years, I had had it with German cars and sold the Mercedes. What did I replace it with? A reliable Honda that my kids still drive today.
Sadly the late '90s and early 2000s were the worse time ever to buy a Mercedes. Their then CEO Jurgen Schrempp had embarked on his mad DaimlerChrysler project and started cost cutting everywhere. The W220 S-Class and W210 E-Class were the worst cars Mercedes every built in terms of quality. They had poor paintwork and rusted, while their interiors were loaded with cheap plastics. I called Schrempp the man who made millions for Mercedes, but lost billions!
The problem is you bought the Mercedes in the beginning of their worst era. The mid 90s they started going downhill. In a matter of fact the real last Mercedes was the W126 till 1991 and W124 till maybe 1994.. After that they started looking and feeling like sissy cars with ugly designs like the W220 , W204, GLK-Class , CLA class, etc....
I would say that the W123 and W124 Mercs were the best and then they just went down hill
You were fooled twice by advertising, the first was The American Dream which doesn't exist and the second was that German engineering is superior. There's wonderful advertising in the US - world leading, in fact.
I remember how many years ago I got into one of the first examples of the electric Golf 7 and while I was driving, the onboard computer suddenly read a message that it needs an oilchange. Excellent stuff 😂👍
This is hilarious😂
But I realize that no negative review on Porsche has been made so far.
@@ericndungu2810 I was telling my girl. The only "reliable" German car is Porsche. I don't think I ever heard one in real life sounding horrible. Then again. Porsche owners probably take care of their vehicle very well compared to lets say an average Benz owner.
@@vernonpaigejr.1517 People also expect Porsches to be expensive so they can probably afford more quality materials and production. A Cayman is the cheapest Porsche, and costs about the same as the most expensive 2 series.
the volkswagen golf VII was awarded the "european car of the year" award in 2013, as well as the "world car of the year award" in the same year. it also received the "US car of the year award" in 2015. this was all due to the impeccable quality and driveability of a car I myself have also owned - with zero complaints. the volkswagen golf VII was the last of the great VWs.
@japanwatchconnection not the one I had in europe wasn`t.
There was a time in the early 80s when b. MW decided to make suvs. And when they started making those cars would be very expensive to make in Germany so that he decided to make him in the US and then after a few years, they started to make all their brands here in the US, and when they started doing that, they took all these Shortcuts to quality, they boot plastic everywhere.And so now the reputation is what it said in the video.Until you get one.That's actually made in germany which most people either don't know about or they refuse to pay the cost to have it shipped from germany to us
Mercedes' main manufacturing facilitites are in Stuttgart Germany.
Mercs started losing quality after the w124 model. I know of quite a number of owners wouldn't sell their 124s for the price of a new entry level mercedes of today
Nothing better than 123!
@@Cozzera Yes. A W140!
W126, R129.........W201........The glory days of Mercedes........and many are still on the road 30-40 years later
@@michaelorekyeh6431 had a W201 myself that somehow still ran and drive until a Jeep took it out
Even the quality of materials from the 123 seem better and have lasted longer than more recent models. Unfortunately while Toyota (and Lexus) and Honda went upmarket in quality and reliability, Mercedes that had the game to themselves went down. I really hope they get it back again and become "Engineered like no other car in the World"
Mercedes has historically been a high maintenance luxury brand which, when maintained properly, could deliver many miles and years of service. There was a cultural shift that took place during the 90`s where car companies like Toyota began to take market share in the luxury car market. This placed enormous pressure on luxury brands like Mercedes to reduce manufacturing costs and they struggled to master the art of efficiently mass-producing high technology. During this struggle many long time, loyal consumers changed brands and never turned back. This loss of brand loyalty was further magnified by the introduction of vehicle leasing sales strategies as a new culture of vehicle consumers never really developed a "pride in ownership" relationship with the vehicle. These factors created a further requirement that dealerships needed to have more highly skilled employees in every department, from the front of the store to the back of the store, and the problem with that was that workers with these skills generally did not work in the automotive industry. The customer experience at the dealership suffered further as a result of these factors.
I feel like the same thing happened at the same time with the Swedish car industry. My family owned nothing but Volvos from the 1980s until 2011. When we bought our first Volvo designed under Ford, it was an expensive, unreliable, piece of garbage that turned us away from the brand. Under Chinese ownership, the products have only gotten more expensive and even less reliable. My family switched to Honda: the spiritual successor of old Volvos in my opinion.
Thanks for sharing. Can you tell me when the Volvos began to be designed by Ford? My 2003 V70 seems ok but when did things change?
Kind like what happened to Saab when GM got more control of them.
After 30 years of Peugeot, I will probably switch to Honda or maybe Mazda.
I drive a early 2000s Mercedes. Thing is still built like a tank, absolutely zero issues so far... I do agree that, in general, quality of products has just gotten worse due to the pressure to sell sell sell with more and better features each time. Nothing is made to be repaired, they just want you to use for a while and replace. It's criminal against our planet...
I can pinpoint the moment the German car industry began its downfall: The advent of electronic assistance systems and software. Over the years, I've driven all kinds of cars - first Japanese (Nissan) back in the 90s, then BMW and ultimately, since almost 14 years now, different models of Volkswagen (6y Polo, 6y Touran, now ID4). I always had a lease for 3 years, so every three years I got the latest model - so I could experience the evolution first hand. The first problems appeared in the Touran. It was the first car I got that featured advanced assistance systems and from the start there were some problems here and there. At first not very often, but then the next generation of the Touran arrived an it got noticeably worse: Sensors sometimes gave of false alarms, cruise control sometimes just decided not to work, sometimes for days. The car entertainment system crashed a bit more often than before. But all in all, most of the time the car still worked okay.
Enter the ID.4. This is no longer a classic car. This is a computer on wheels. These types of cars live and breathe software. And this time, VW has ultimately proven that they can't do software if you put a gun to their heads. The software was riddled with bugs, the first iteration of the 12V battery was not powerful enough to reliably power all the electronics, so they had to recall and replace it. The OTA updates that were promised did not yet work, so during the recall they also updated the software to 2.4, finally enabling OTA capability. In theory - a few days ago, they announced that they stopped OTA because of too many problems and all people stuck on version 2.x would be contacted by their dealers for a manual update (but, hey, that's a lot of cars and the car to be in the shop for a couple of days so, yeah, that might take a while). And all the people who already got the 3.0 update, but whose cars were initially delivered with 2.x, have to go back to the shop as well - oh, but that may take even longer. I can't see myself get another German car after this experience - at least not a Volkswagen.
To be honest, digital assistance nightmares aren't only German car nemesis. Other cars with a lot of digital sensors may fail in even worse way. At 2000-ies friend had weird issues with his brand new Renault premium class car (I believe it was Vel Satis). He noticed very often empty tire warnings where tires wasn't empty. Tires was fine. Later turned out that cause was pressure sensor faults. In this car sensors are built in wheels - he luckily was able to get all four wheels replaced in dealer service on warranty.
Overengineering is strong in German software development too. Thus user interface in German software often is something completely different in comparing with UI design principles elsewhere. Even copy/paste with Ctrl-C/Ctrl+V will be put on completely different key shortcuts. Had very awkward experience with German car part manufacturer catalogs and SAP in this aspect. No surprise why VW had so much problems with UI in their ID.x cars.
Get a w124 or w126 mb
Alle Deutschen machen denselben Fehler: Hier Mal ne Erklärung für dich, damit den nimmer machst.
since 2014, aber for 14 years.
Also since wird angewandt, wenn man ein Datum, ne Uhrzeit oder Dergleichen hat. Since 2014, since his birth, since Buddha was born, since yesterday...
For wird angewandt um einen Zeitraum zu beschreiben. For hours, For 10 minutes, for the past year, forever...
@@Kivas_Fajo Und da sind sogar noch mehr Fehler in dem Text, die Du alle übersehen hast, Schlaumeier. Wenn Du sie noch findest, darfst Du sie gerne behalten. Get a life.
@@Kivas_Fajo Erst since zwei, dann since drei, dann war alles for bye.
First car I ever owned was a 1984 Mercedes 280e and it was hands down the best car I've ever had. Never missed a beat, beautiful to drive, and you could feel the quality. Most recent car I've had was a 2006 Mercedes ML320 and it's been the worst car - nothing but trouble, I've lost count of how many times something has gone wrong and I don't even want to think how much I've spent on repairs. I love the brand, but there is no denying they are not what they once were
This is true. Sadly the best driving big car I've ever had, Audi Q5, was also the most problematic. Constantly having issues and it's not like I drove it hard or any at all. Now I drive a 22 year old Lexus with far less problems. Sad
Bought a fancy Mercedes e63s AMG - it drives good but the software interface and features has been nothing but problems for years. The dealer can’t fix it - they don’t understand anything about the software and it controls everything in the car basically. The mechanical aspects seem good - but there are small nagging problems there too. Need an example - the trunk will randomly close its self smashing you in the head whilst your unloading groceries. The kick to open and close the trunk feature - can not be turned off - so every use of the trunk is a risky, fearful event where we wonder how injured we’ll be this time. It also often slams on the brakes while backing out of the garage because it sees the point where the garage floor stops and the driveway begins as an imaginary hazard requiring immediate intervention. The braking is so severe and harsh it hurt my wife’s neck from whiplash. All these problems from a car that cost over $150,000! We are considering getting rid of it and buying a Japanese car.
Another contributing factor is the product cycle that is getting shorter and shorter, while the portfolio is getting wider and wider. How many models does BMW have in 1980s? 4. In 2000s? 11. Now? Lost count. While a model development in the olden days takes quite some years from early design phase until final testing, current cars are developed within fractions of that time. Yes, computers and other tech helps to accelerate but still lot of shortcuts are made.
true
There's a reason used German cars depreciate so hard. Once that warranty has ended they are ticking time bombs.
I noticed how most German products, not just the cars have had their quality decline in the last 20-25 years. With some is more noticeable than others. It's concerning but I don't have an answer as to why.
So, when I purchased my new car I didn't even look at any German brand. I went straight for a Japanese one. Better quality, better craftsmanship, same luxury specs and even lower price.
I've noticed that the quality of a lot of products, regardless of where they were made, has declined in recent years. Clothing, appliances , furniture,toys etc.
It's all to do with cost unfortunately. Consumers just want cheaper products, keep it for a few years,then throw it out.
@@keithmartin1328 "Consumers just want cheaper products, keep it for a few years,then throw it out." Maybe, yet mobile phones are more expensive than ever. Yet where is the German brand Grundig as a market leader in mobile phones (or televisions or anything)? It's gone and just a name put on generic products now.
Some time ago, I read something about German manufacturing that might ring some truth in it: 'If you want German quality, go buy Swiss'. It wasn't a Swiss but a German who said that.
inflation---they need to cut more and more corners to keep the same level of profit---as long as inflation goes up quality of stuff will go down
It’s not just German cars. American cars have been garbage for decades in the last 10-15 years Japanese cars have seriously plummeted in quality. Also parts for all these cars are almost useless junk now.
I wouldn't mind the drop in quality of the price would drop as well.
Over Engineered and cheap parts. Period.
In the 80's when I was a kid, there was a gulf of difference in quality between for instance the Ford Sierra/Vauxhall Cavalier and the BMW E30/Mercedes 190/Audi 80, the differences were completely tangible. Today when comparing the cars from mainstream manufacturers and those of premium German manufacturers the difference is next to nill. Ironically the only thing that is now 'premium' about most German cars is the price yet due to the sheer numbers of the things being supplied on low rate monthly lease deals they are now the mainstream themselves!!
and the required gasoline!
I trust my 1962 vw bug over most newer cars on the road. With some basic maintenance, along with some restored original parts they last forever. My little 1200cc 40hp drives up and down the mountain grades, 150-mile trips one way a few days a week. I love my car!
A friend of my Dad's tried to give me a '61 Beetle 50 years ago, I drove it around the block and gave it bak to him; half a century later it still is the worst car I've ever driven...by fat!
I had a 61 bug with a crank sun roof and electric fuel gauge . Got it in 1963 from my uncle who brought it state side while serving in Germany. Sold it decades later. Still miss it.
It is not just the quality of the cars. I live in Spain and the dealerships in my area are terrible. I ordered a Mercedes and was so fed up with the service and quality of the dealership that I cancelled the order. I was in a hurry to replace my Audi, so I went to the garage next door and bought a Hyundai. The first time in 30 years that I haven't bought BMW, Mercedes or Audi. The quality, build, and technology are excellent and the value for money compared to its German competitors is unbeatable.
My daily driver is a 1992 MB W124 300D 4 speed auto. 30 years later still feels super solid and drives super smooth. I will keep it as long as possible because I have no idea with what newer model to replace it.
My first car was a 1957 VW Beetle - a wonderful, dependable car. The last was a 'new' Beetle that replaced a TDI Beetle that was recalled due to the diesel emissions issue. The last one was a dismal flop - its undependability was earth shaking. In between the Beetles was a '75 Scirocco and a 2005 Passat. The Scirocco was fun and sporty with 'shaky' quality. The Passat was a dismal failure - with two transmission replacements and a Service Manager telling me (HIS WORDS EXACTLY) "We've put a new transmission in the car but it will fail again due to an electrical problem that we've identified but is one which we will not fix." We now drive a Toyota and a Subaru. We will never again drive German cars - they are over priced, over thought out, to difficult to service, and, most importantly, undependable.
I had a Scirocco. The quality was worse than "shaky". I remember replacing the transmission and doing a valve job. And then amusing stuff like having the clutch cable fail in heavy traffic. But it was easy to repair. Lots of room and the parts were very light in weight.
My father drove Mercedes diesels in the 1980s. those things were tanks and probably could still run today had he held onto them. unfortunately they realized there's more money in making cars that don't last as long.
And then they say they care about the environment. Seriously, did they ever think that unreliable cars are worst?
Germany no longer has any top-flight universities.
In 2010, I needed to replace my 2 Toyotas because they were getting really old. I decided to buy a German car because of better handling. We bought 2 new X3 and X5. They both turned out to be complete junk! The dealership was terrible and couldn’t sometimes diagnose the problem. I finally found an independent shop who told me to immediately sell my X5 because of some issues they couldn’t properly diagnose. Had similar issue with X3. Replaced both cars with Lexus RX and NX - very pleased with them. Will never buy another German car again.
It’s a real pity, because German cars (IMO) are so beautifully designed and their level of luxury and comfort remain unmatched. Would be so much nicer if you could buy one with the confidence that regular, reasonable maintenance would keep them on the road indefinitely, especially when you’re paying top dollar for them!
It truly depends. There are modern german cars that are indestructible like the BMWs with N52 and N55 engines. The modern B engine series seems to be way better too in quality.
There are still some fantastic models. People are just really lazy and don’t know which ones to look out for.
The ones made in Germany are much better than the ones made in other countries. The E class especially is a very very reliable modern Mercedes.
I have a 2016 model with 120,000 miles on it with absolutely zero issues. I am on top of preventative maintenance.
It is very reliable this model because it doesn’t have a bunch of gimmicky things in it.
For me I just can’t get myself to drive a Japanese car they are just so boring and on involving in the driving experience.
The W-2 12 E class is probably the most reliable card they have made in the last 20 years and the one that I always recommend to people
Its happening since about the mit 2000s. Materials, and the quality of engineering went only downwards from there. They started to produce more of a throwaway car instead of a quality car what can even last 30 years without a problem. I think technology had a part in that aswell, as the more modern and complex systems simply cant be as robust as the older more simple technology before that. I always refused to buy a car newer then 2003-2004, as they are simply rubbish by comparison. Yes, they have a lot more extras, more powerful engines, but for what? I'm still driving cars from the early 90s, the last golden era of pretty much every major european manufacturer, and i must say, i have everything in those cars what i need in a car, even heated seats and A/C, and because they are more simple cars they are much better thought out, and instead of the fancy electronics the important parts were made of the right materials, no plastic timing chain guides for example on my cars, and i also have limited slip differential, what i think isnt even an option anymore.. but now you can have a monthly subscription to unlock extra acceleration 😂😂 pathetic, expensive, and doesnt worth it.
When I was a student I had a job as taxidriver in the Netherlands. We drove Mercedes 200 D. The quality was legendary. The feel of quality also. Everything was build to last for ever. Even with the daily abuse of our drivers the cars easily did 500.000 km and more.. I think it was one the best cars ever made..
You think 500,000 k’s is something great?! I have news for you! Australian Ford Falcon 6 cylinder petrol/ lpg Taxis are renowned to do 1 million kilometres without an engine rebuild.
Lexus LS400s do 2million KM easily with first engine and transmission.
@@cteez91912 million on a tranny is a bit of a scretch 😂😂
500.000 is not that much for a Merc as a taxi. A 6K Euro Dacia Logan from 2005 can go 700.000 with the original engine and gearbox. Mind you only the 1.4l MPI version :D
Just a couple of words to solve reliability problem for people: Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Acura, Suzuki, Mazda, Nissan, Mitsubisi, Isuzu, Infinity... That's about it :)
I wouldn’t throw Nissan in there. Not with their horrible transmissions.
@@BabyBugBug Manual one are fine. The automatic is the problematic one
@@strezificationAgree totally
When removing plastic covers in the engine compartment to replace spark plugs recently on my 2016 VW Jetta 1.4 Turbo with 50,000 miles, I was surprised at how easily plastic tabs break off, requiring replacement. I also noticed previous damage to intake tubes from VW dealer oil change technicians who removed them to check the air filter for example, and I replaced those tubes also. The care runs and drives exceptionally well, one does not notice the turbo, only the instant throttle response, very smooth ride, yet nice handling, but concerned how the car will hold up with age. Not fair to compare to Mercedes, but I have owned or own W124, W126, and W140, from years 1986 to 1998 and when something has to be disassembled on those cars, even on the 190,000 mile car, you can put it back together properly as if nothing happened (I am a former Porsche, BMW, Mercedes-Benz technician).
If u remove an engine part today, you expect to break when u reassemble it.. not built tough anymore..
All cars have been declining, but German cars once set the bar so high, so the cars on the road today look especially bad in comparison.
True, the economics now run the game not the engineering.
I had an Audi 80 2.6 from 1993 for 26,5 years. It regularly got rust protection as I live in Scandinavia. Eventually the dual exhaust system needed replacement and the value of the car was not worth the investment so I sold it. I really got a lot years for my original investment.
Why did you decide on the basis of the value of the car?
It might not be worth much on the market but there probanly was still 20+ more years in it if you had replaced the exhaust.
Owning an Audi from this era is a labor of love. Mine is from 1995 and is a model 90, 2.8 V6. I love it enough to keep up with the inevitable repairs, it is afterall nearly 30 yrs old at this point.
My 1969 VW Bug , bought 50 years ago with 26,389 miles went 108,000miles before my brother rolled it over a concrete barrier .
I then started buying used Porsche 911, they were even more reliable . One friend still owns a 1969 Porsche 911E and today 54 years later , it is still in the road .
Mercedes made in the 60’s to 1980’s will last 50 years with normal maintenance.
I had two new Mercedes models in the past two years: new A200d and new W206 C220d.
Both cars rattled, squeaked and had numerous software problems. Quality has taken a massive dip.
I got rid of both cars after they spent on average 1week per month at the dealership as they attempted to fix the issues.
I reverted back to driving Japanese cars as they are better in all aspects , specifically reliability.
Made in Alabama 🙂
@@KDR816 A Class was made in Hungary; C Class in South Africa
Important to understand what JDP is measuring. This is IQS, or initial quality. Lot of carmakers are struggling with software and entertainment issues. Long term dependability is another indicator of quality. This is where Toyota, Lexus and to some extent brands like Porsche do far better. It’s hard to form a general opinion based on one year’s IQS, but it’s clear that German brands are struggling with digitalization more than mechanical engineering and powertrains, assembly etc. in my personal opinion, Mercedes build quality and reliability has suffered since 1991, when marketers got more power in the product planning process over engineers. VW brand has also cheapened on build quality since they have had less resources due to Dieselgate penalties.
100 percent!
Mechanics hate the engineers, who make these unreliable designs, who hate marketers, who push for the engineers to make unreliable designs, who hate shareholders, who push the marketers to concentrate on short term profits rather than long term reputation
@Phillip Banes you can also just look at the roads, and see how many old Toyotas and Hondas are running around. Built to last!
@Phillip Banes That is absolutely right, the IQS actually shows German cars in a better light. JD Powers long term dependability study shows the Germans brands are really bad when they get old.
One point that is being missed here, I think, is that other manufacturers have caught up with the German quality standards. Like Napoleon who beat his opponents so many times that he taught them how to fight and was finally defeated, the same goes for the German built cars. The competition caught up with them ....
You are wrong both with the german cars and with Napoleon. I don't know were are your ideas from but you should research both subject.
@@Zodroo_Tint can you explain your point rather that just saying "your wrong" ?
In my view, German and Japanese manufacturers are running into the same precarious situation. They are still living on the strength of their past and their image. However, they have stopped listening to their customers and are missing out on the shift towards electric mobility.
What's more, VW in particular delivers poor quality, especially when it comes to software and all the plastic parts, and only offers a short warranty, at least in Germany. As a German engineer, I wouldn't buy a German car at the moment. Nor would I buy a Japanese car, because Japan is at least 5 years behind in the development of electric cars.
I think German cars design is still ahead overall. But they have become high fashion cars, too focused on style to justify their higher price. I do like what VW is bringing to the EV market though, and the GTI is still one of the best affordable sports cars. I’ve owned 4 Japanese cars (I still own 2) after owning 3 German cars, and that’s in part because they rarely break and are cheap and easy to fix, at least in the US.
It's like high end fashion clothes - expensive, ridiculous and appealing for looks, status and shock more than actual quality and assurance.
Hey, I'm from germany and would like to give some insight on the car prices here.
I'm not going to write all the prices down here since this would be a lot of work with all the extra's you can configure in a car nowadays.
Polo GTI is more expensive than a Hyundai i20N/Fiesta ST
Golf GTI is more expensive than a Hyundai i30N/Focus ST
Golf GTI Clubsport is more expensive than a Civic Type R
Golf R/S3 is more expensive than a GR Yaris/A35 AMG/BMW M1
after that (RS3, A45, 2 Series M car, ...) they are more or less very similar priced
I was a Golf owner for 15 years. I owned III's a IV and a V with no massive issues. I then owned 2 brand new Golf VI's in 6 months. The garage had them more than me. Injectors, dashboard, stereo, turbo, ECU and electronics all had faults. My favourite was when I unlocked the car remotely, all four windows opened. Handy in rainy Ireland.
I sent them a solicitors letter and they gave my money back. I replaced the second VI with a Mk2.5 Focus and I had it from new to over 400,000km in 13 years when someone crashed into it. It was a joy to own such a trouble free car. More fun to drive too. I usually kept cars for 2-3 years but was so attached to the Ford that I couldn't replace it.
Replaced that with a Corolla hybrid last year. It's too soon to say after only 62,000km, but it's a Toyota. It'll be fine. Plus 180bhp is nice.
The proliferation of plastic under hood components such as, inlet manifolds, coolant pumps , fuel rails and so on, would have been unthinkable in the 1980s.
Plastic inlet manifold is hilarious tbh. Plastic cylinder next, need a new one every 5K along with the plastic brake discs.
Sometimes plastics are stronger than metals even if it seems counter intuitive.
To be fair many plastic parts on my bmw are perfectly fine despite being 20 years old. Its often resonable to replace a metal part with a plastic part that weighs a tenth. I agree with you however on the use of plastic in critical components like water pumps.
@@traubengott9783 Plastic parts might be more cost-effective and durable like steel in same time. But it heavily depends from where they are used. In locations with high temeperature and/or direct sunlight presence they often melt or become britle thus fail much earlier than metal parts. Audi TT water pumps are one of such examples.
you forgot about one thing - now most engines made of aluminium alloy (lighter, less emission, more power in smaller size, less lifetime) back than it was steel engines (large, heavy, powerful and fuel hungry, but longer lifetime). Just an evolution of technologies and fast fashion
I drove a BMW 216d Active Tourer with automatic gear, got it new in 2019 and I said goodbye to it at the beginning of this year. With, mind you, 350.000 km (about 217.500 miles) under it’s belt. And I have to say: not a squeaky noise, not a problem whatsoever, never had it let me down and with a fuel consumption many car-companies can only dream of. This car still has me baffled. (Av.cons. 1 ltr on 22 kilometres)
You should have kept it.
Probably would have run another 300.000km
@@traubengott9783 I did want to keep it, but my employer had other plans unfortunately. Got a Renault E-tech Hybrid… after 29.000 it just stopped. 4 blocked wheels and not an inch forward or backward. This was 2 weeks ago, they still don’t know what happened. Told my employer ‘I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so…’
Basically every manufacturer is able to produce long lasting product. But why would they do that? People wouldn't buy new products so often if their old one works just fine.
As a BMW E12 and E30 owner I’ll never even think of owning a modern day BMW.
i completely agree. i have an e46 and would never get anything newer. wo, e12!? howd you get your hands on that? envious
It's not only quality but the newer models have gotten to be to fugly to even want to be seen in one.
E30, z4, x5. All my bmw's were fun when they work. The problem if they dont work for very long. Constantly fixing plastic junk
yeah, those are super safe too..
I’m a Mercedes Benz tech . They are rushing electric cars and new technology into the market without doing any testing . The customers and technicians are the ones suffering. The new 24 GLC has a software bug that will drain the battery if you lock the car too many times . There is no fix for it , a lot of Mercedes software engineers left the company . And because we’re on a flat rate pay scale , we can’t get payed to diagnose the car if there is no solution to the issue . Everything about new cars is terrible . I drive a 32 year old Volvo that gets me to work every day no issue .