The incredible thing is Microsoft has reportedly struck a deal with Samsung for OLED panels that could power a new line of mixed reality headsets. This people are crazy. Nobody is going to buy and spend $$$ in a MS AR/VR headset because they are going to kill it in 5 years. Like Google does with everything.
@@slateisaremember when people where up in arms over Google glass because it had a camera in it? Fast forward and you have a glasses company Rayban with cameras in them and no one bats an eyelid... Not to mention things that weren't classed as ethical due to lidar in some things because you could see through some materials, so the Quest Pro didn't have lidar but then the Quest 3 did... There's a lot of things in the world I don't quite get how it's not OK for one lot to do but then another can do it 6 - 12 months later.....
Sad truth is the EU alone can't regulate all the American tech companies instead of the US goverment. This will never change unless the actual US regulators start doing their job.
The EU can't do anything, because the market for these things was pretty much entirely US based. If the market was larger in Europe and Asia to a point where disrupting the supply could hurt microsofts bottom line than yeah sure, but since the market is primarily America it won't do anything.
I remember how the Index elitist used to complain about it, and now base stations are pretty much dead tech. Expect when you say this, some zombie Index user from 2019 arises from the dirt and starts telling how amazing it is to have to install base stations onto your walls.
@@Nobody-NowhereNgl, I am that guy. I'm not gonna tell anyone that Quest inside out tracking isn't absolutely great for any use case, but lighthouse tracking is noticeably better still if you are sensitive to micro drifting and micro stuttering etc. Still, Quest 3 tracks REALLY good for a bunch of cameras, especially the controllers are impressive
@@Nobody-Nowhere Not really dead tech - just for different users. I own 2 WMR headsets and an index, so I'm not a zombie fanboy. For things like racing sims and flight sims I go WMR, but for normal VR experiences I go index (or the varjo I recently got). The base stations just make everything super nice. I never drilled them into my walls either - I just have a long stand for them and that works wonders. My first WMR headset was actually the Odyssey+, way back in 2017. One of the channels that convinced me to grab one was this one, and it wasn't cheap because of Egyptian economy and absurd import costs. But I loved it! I primarily got it for Simracing, but eventually I started exploring other experiences. However, I did have to accept the many limitations of inside-out tracking and just the nature of the setup when it comes to things outside of cockpit experiences. Also, god forbid you try to play in the dark. (I like to keep my lights off, but WMR inside out tracking doesn't work here) I got an index later down the line, and I loved using it for normal VR experiences! Was a much better and smoother experience for me, forgoing the limitations of Inside out tracking of the WMR headsets. However, I got the HP Reverb G2 last year because I find it to be better for driving and flight simming for me. Again, cockpit experiences are lovely in WMR. Both sides have their ups and downs, but I wouldn't call base stations dead tech. Lots of modern VR headsets rely on base stations, both on the budget and high end side of things. VR headsets that utilize base stations still come out to this day, and that's for good reason. Additionally, the vast majority of VR accessories rely on base stations. A good example is Full Body Tracking. It's very, very popular nowadays, and many quest and WMR users are forced to get base stations if they want to buy the Vive Trackers. They then need to use third party tools to calibrate two playspaces, and not only is it jank and takes lots of effort, but it also drifts over time. Recently, trackers that don't use base stations have become somewhat mainstream (since they're a lot cheaper), but the tracking quality is much lower (not to mention the need to recalibrate over time). Both base stations and inside out tracking have their place in the market. If Inside out tracking works well for you and the limitations don't bother you at all because of how you use your setup, then that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't justify blind hatred of the other side of the market. Same thing goes for the Index users you speak of - inside out tracking has it's place. It's convenient, and a lot of budget headsets now utilize it. It's limiting in a lot of ways, but if your use cases fit it then it's not an issue at all. Not sure why the index users you met bash other headsets. Get what you like, lmao. If anything I'm glad consumers are spoiled for choices nowadays compared to half a decade ago. The quest headsets also lowered the bar of entry a ton.
@@Nobody-Nowhere I love my Index, (I mainly use the Playstation VR2 paired with the Valve Knuckles now. XD) but inside-out tracking is easier to set up, and is still really impressive. Lighthouse tracking is better, but in my experience, isn't by a whole lot. Both have been GREAT in my experience.
I started watching this channel because you were basically the only one really talking about WMR. Its weird they cant just create a standalone driver for the headsets.
This is freaking messed up, of Microsoft to do. My first VR headset ever, was WMR. It was the Acer one. It's the sole reason I got into VR in the first place. Microsoft intentionally bricking these headsets, instead of just making them not receive updates anymore, makes no frickin' sense to me. That's such a douchey move. I also owned the HP Reverb G2 a few years ago, and it was a fantastic headset. I absolutely loved it, while I had it. I feel incredibly bad for those who only have WMR, currently and don't have a way of upgrading right now. Honestly screw Microsoft. Them doing this intentionally is such an anti-consumer move.
Oh, hey Ghost. Yeah, it's frustrating. I've been a Rift user, still am, but I can totally understand the issues at hand. I've had no desire to install 11 as I've stuck with 10 Pro. I'm not sure if these will brick on 10.
I remember I had the Lenovo Explorer. I'm glad I upgraded and got rid of it. I hate that they can push updates to brick your hardware. They should receive a lawsuit. 😡
Pretty sure any manufacturer technically could do something that bricks your hardware (especially meta or other standalone manufacturers) but yeah it doesn't sound legal.
Man I would be happy to loose Mixed Reality Portal if my G2 just ‘worked’ with OpenXR or SteamVR by default, without the portal bridging. But sounds like that’s not happening either.
The problem is the tracking. This was (and is) completely handled by the WMR software. So without it, there is no chance running a WMR headset in SteamVR
Laws are needed that when companies do this that the customer should *at minimum* be 100% financially reimbursed at the launch MSRP price. That's not enough to replace the value of the item to the customer, given these are much cheaper than the other options available today, but it's the absolute least they can do. Or a law passed that if a company decides to do this, they need to open source the drivers.
The incredible thing is Microsoft has reportedly struck a deal with Samsung for OLED panels that could power a new line of mixed reality headsets. This people are crazy. Nobody is going to buy and spend $$$ in a MS AR/VR headset because they are going to kill it in 5 years. Like Google does with everything.
its just a shame the WMR opensource projects on linux are "working" but a bit of a sh*tshow to setup/get working well and even then bits work but not everything.
This is exactly why despite wanting one I didn't get one, I saw the mandatory online downloads and the fact it was dependent on consumer versions of Windows 10 and I went with a different brand that gives me offline installers without an account requirement. My entire VR setup can be reproduced without the internet so ill always own my headset, its not the company's to take away.
What annoys me the most is that this could be fine. If they'd publish all of this stuff, so people could make it work it would be fine. I'm not mad about them dropping support I'm mad about them making their devices dependent on support. Just because they don't will make many devices unusable. I payed a lot of money for my g2. This is absolutely unacceptable.
I never would have gotten into VR if it weren't for Windows Mixed Reality and its more affordable headsets as well as lower performance costs. I had a blast with my Lenovo Explorer being powered by a laptop with a GTX 1050ti. Heck, even aside from the software, the Samsung WMR controllers are my favorite VR controllers by far. They are comfortable to hold without slipping out of your hand, have a nice button layout, are easy to button map and customize, and don't suffer from analog stick drift. They are bloody fantastic. I'm glad to still be using Windows 10. I'll have to keep an offline Windows 10 PC that has WMR and all of my games.
I remember years ago buying the Zune. Microsoft discontinued them mid stream and I told myself I’d NEVER buy another Microsoft backed product again. Was the right decision
They have solid experience with shooting themselves in the foot. At the end of the day, the community will rise to the challenge. I had a feeling I should keep my gaming pc on W10.
Hello from Italy Tyriel and thanks for the awesome video! If I can put my two cents, I'll leave one of the of the post I also wrote on reddit, which summarize my take on the situation: Simply put, I won't let go the Reverb G2 'till it works, one way or another. There's simply no substitute for it, and I tried almost everything (and I also use quite regularly both Quest 3 and PSVR2). I never had a single issue with the cable, or with WMR itself, and performance-wise it's far superior to the Quest 3 on the same hardware, with INCOMPARABLE video quality, due to the DisplayPort signal vs streaming (which is unbearable to me in more graphically complex games, even using WiFi 6E, or Link cable with 960mbit data rate). I'll keep Windows 10 and 11 23H2 locked on my PC with the InControl application, and then I'll use 0patch to receive future security updates after 2025. But in no way am I gonna stop using a headset I love and have spent a lot of money on. Just yesterday I was playing Subside, and, needless to say, it's incredible visually on the G2.
I can't believe this is even possible... How is the most expensive peripheral I bought able to be made obsolete with a system update?! I love my G2! Microsoft so scummy, I'll never forget this
Ok so ultimate solution for WMR users is to move to Windows 10 IOT Enterprise LTSC 2021 which will be supported till 2032 not only will you get to use win 10 you will also get at least 8 more years out of your wmr headsets
@@taumelscheibe5948 even if so not like they can force uninstall them plus steam tends to have a golden rule of installed once forever yours even if they do pull it those that used it should still have access
Just a heads up from a techo that Win11 23H2 (the update before 24H2) goes end of support Nov 11 2025. So, after that date it won't receive security updates; kind of forcing you to go to 24H2 or risk the vulnerabilities in the OS. I'm a proud Reverb G2 user, and when I heard about this deprecation it had me fuming. We're forced to use Windows as a service, and the deprecation timelines that go with it. It's funny that core to the broader Windows ecosystem is backwards compatibility. However, Microsoft are generally forced into that approach at the application layer due to the wide install base. It's so sad to see them kill WMR off without a supported solution; and I'd wager it's so they no longer have to factor in WMR app compatibility testing across major feature update releases. They invented WMR, dipped their toes in the water and put the risk on the shoulders of their hardware partners. There was no further development and a minimum of investment, hence the platform failed to grow as it should have. The parallels to Windows mobile are (as mentioned) a great example.
Old news. Microsoft announced last year they would be killing WMR and it has been known for several months now that it would occur with 24H2, why I bought a Quest 3. I have literally no idea why people are reporting this just now.
No need to apologize, I also thought that Microsoft's support and ecosystem wpuld last longer than most others. Sadly they had a lot of missed opportunities. Your reviews got me into VR with a WMR headset but I've since moved on to better ones. Not always because of the platform but often it's the spec uodates and compatibility that make me uograde. I appreciate your channel and how it introduced me to VR, there's never a need to apologize
The reason microsoft is deprecating the windows headsets is to increase their sales margin for their future partnership with Meta and the open source OS that they would use for the Xbox VR Headset. They want to make sure there is no better option but to use those headsets.
I just did a fresh install of W10 a couple of weeks ago and as Tyriel said it's still working and will continue to work. I am sure someone will develop a way for these headsets to keep working in the not so distance future, so don't lose hope guys.
I'd like to see people sticking to those WMR headsets for a while because I'm certain projects like OpenHMD will be continued now by folks who really wanna keep using these brutally underrated yet super simple and amazing VR headsets. I can say I loved my Lenovo Explorer and gave it to a friend two years ago who never knew what to pick up and who also now has my machine from back then.
stopping support and completely removing are two very different things. It speaks to the incompetence of microsoft engineers that they couldn't even separate wmr from the OS and have it work without support
I am surprised you are just talking about this now. This issue was brought up several months ago that Windows 11 updates will kill using VR headsets mixed reality. Right now I have all Windows 10 systems and have no plans to go to Windows 11. Thanks allot Microsoft. YOU SUCK big time!!!!!!!
Reverb G2 was the only headset with a cable, which I considered buying. I would be really pissed off right now. This headset is still good even today, and they made it useless 🤯
Yeah, they really don't give any F*s, or at least they don't see things the way we do at all, or respect for how they've got where they are. We'll see I guess 😅 Good work bud, always has been 👏👏
I gave my Dell Visor away last year. It was collecting dust, I hadn't used it in like 2 years and a friend of mine wanted to dip his toe into VR. At the time I refused to take any money for it, and now I'm glad. I would have felt terrible.
:-( Windows Mixed Reality is how I got started in VR. I loved my Samsung Odyssey. I moved to Oculus bc I liked being untethered to the PC. I hate that we're losing the option.
Set windows to get only security updates using something like ChrisTitus's debloat tool to make sure your WMR HMD doesn't turn into a paperweight so soon
What is with these giant companies doing things like this? This happens so often..... they're ahead of the game, doing amazing things. Sell a product, dont keep up wiith it, put everything on the backburner then denounce the tech, while everyone else is using what they pioneered, to prove them completely wrong. Then they jump back in like we're all supposed to be impressed. And they constantly mess with our wallets. Like meta buying up every game studio for a while, doing absolutely nothing with them then dissolving their teams and fully removing their games from the quest store after we already paid for the damn thing. I really do think there needs to be a huge lawsuit. Currently the concept of ownership is so blurred. All the software we have, we have to assume is a rental. But our HARDWARE? Nahhhh, thats a step too far. Consumers need to put their foot down and let these corps know that we're not gonna just let them turn our perfectly working tech into $800+ paperweights on a whim.
All that rage, turn it into learning to code. Learn to make drivers. Make your investment worth while instead of that soon to be paperweight you see every time you look at your desk. My first headset was a second hand Lenovo explorer, which I used so much that it bricked on me. I liked the headset and being the first thing that got me in vr was amazing. Without software support such an experience will be limited if at all possible. This means less people in vr. Don’t let the industry take a step back, make the drivers and the change you want to see.
On one side, Valve is discretly fixing SteamVR for Linux and Gnome finally integrated the Wayland protocole needed for VR on Wayland session. On the other side Microsoft is killing Windows Mixed Reality.
I'm in the comfortable situation that a) I already planned on upgrading from the Reverb G2 to the Pimax Crystal Light and b) I got a 2nd PC with Win10 I can still use the G2 with, but not everyone got that option so I'm 100% with you: MS should have at least made it possible to use WMR hmd with OpenXR.
WMR, HoloLens, Surface Duo, Windows Phones, Zune... Microsoft has absolutely no problem burying expensive hardware platforms people invest so much money into just because they don't dominate their respective industry within several years, and that's not even touching on the wildly depressing graveyard that is their software portfolio. There comes a point when their physical products need to start coming with a huge asterisk next to them urging customers not to expect it to be more than a paperweight within a few years from purchase.
If you are no longer supporting a system, means you are not working to keep the security vulnerabilities in check...best to delete that system from the users PC, and put the resources that could go into simple security updates for 80,000 users into making the new Ai copilot stuff not become a major vulnerability to millions of users who are forced to have it run as a background task because MS spyware right? Makes sense when you look at it like that.
Windows 11 didn't even exist when these headsets came out. And I have no plans on getting windows 11. So that's why I was fine getting a cheap g2 off eBay a few months back as my work desk pc headset. Plus there was already a way to ensure the reverb g2 works fine on windows 10, posted to Reddit ages ago.
Look: I had a g2 myself, I gave it away to a w10 user and lost more than 80%. But this is no reason to get sentimental. The upgrade has some serious advantages, probably for more people, as there are or have been wmr owners around. And that is why I think, this information is not harmful at all.
Microsoft has neglected so many opportunities to cultivate VR through Game Pass and their own storefront. You can't even search for VR compatible games in Game Pass (even though they exist), and some that are VR compatible on other platforms have been stripped of that functionality for God knows what reason - Lucky's Tale (ironically) and Senua's Saga, for example. It would've been next to nothing for them to make Game Pass a showcase environment for VR potential, but it's like they are not just complacent towards VR, but actively opposed to it. I just don't get it. 😮💨
@@Tyrielwood, unfortunately, that "matter of time" will be on October 14, 2025. Another year with one's G2 is better than nothing, I guess--which is what Windows 11 users are getting with this update.... 😢
This makes me really really really happy I sold my G2 3 months after its launch. The software was terrible in the beginning and barely useable + I learned I'm not a sim VR user. I don't trust anything from microsoft/HP or any of those large companies. Super excited for valve's new headset. An ecosystem and a company I trust
@@陸 Ya I've held off buying a headset because I don't want to own one from them. Every so often a chinese company comes in the industry but I just trust them. Its a lot of money to put down and if they bounce out a couple months after I buy in then that really sucks. The only VR device thats even tempted me is the bigscreen beyond but I didn't want to go in first gen for them
The end of your video was awesome!!! Keep up the good work!! I absolutely love my Reverb G2, the clarity, comfort and easy of use make this an all time great headset, but then there is Microsoft, grrrr!!!
If i owned this headset in the UK i would take them to the small claims court. It will cost very little and you could end up getting most or all of your money back.
This is one of the reasons I went with the Valve index. I had the Oculus Rift S as my first VR headset only to have it go EOL just a couple of years later. Another reason I went with the Valve index is for its Linux support out of the box (screw you microsoft!)
Would it not be possible to create 3rd party SteamVR drivers to get these working? There is Linux support Monado is the OpenXR runtime project that underpins support for WMR and Rift S and other headsets so surely its possible
Thanks for letting us know. If this was done in 5-years' time it would be entirely reasonable; but as it is, this is a total dick-move by Microsoft. Windows Mixed Reality has always been utter crap compared to the other main VR platforms, and I have hated every minute of being forced to use it with my excellent HP Reverb G2, but withdrawing it so soon is ridiculous: I'll be leaving the update well alone.
Your job as a consumer is to purchase as many products and services as possible over the course of your lifetime, in order to maximize profit for the companies that sell them. This includes minimizing the time period that a product exists in the market place and therefore its support. Regardless of if you agree with this or not, that is the fact of how the current capitalist economy functions. Also, people should not forget that the vast majority of 'TH-cam influencers' that present videos on these products are just providing proxy marketing for those companies, and are unlikely to boycott a company for the aforementioned type of behavior because like those companies they are in it for the money. So the cycle continues...
After using computers for a while (like over 20 years for me) you simply learn that Microsoft always does this and you should not invest in any of their products if you value long term support. Consider everything they do a one-off. Like their new "copilot+ AI bullshit" products. They probably stop supporting and developing that in a year and remove all the features from windows. If you are dependent on windows try to remove as much as possible and don't use any of Microsoft services. You'll have a happier life :D
you said you moved away from WMR a while ago. What do you use now? What headsets besides "quest" headsets don't use WMR? Are there other headsets that use their own softwares? Thank you for the video. I've been using my G2 for 5 years!
WMR is old and outdated. No new VR headsets have been released that use WMR in years. So what headsets besides Quest don't use WMR? The answer is _all of them._ Anything even vaguely current. Bigscreen Beyond, Pimax Crystal and Crystal Light, etc. Even most old headsets like the Valve Index didn't use WMR. WMR was never popular in general. Just the Reverb G2 was popular with a narrow niche of flight simmers.
if someone knows how to start a lawsuit, or anything like that you have my support, and my signature.
The incredible thing is Microsoft has reportedly struck a deal with Samsung for OLED panels that could power a new line of mixed reality headsets. This people are crazy. Nobody is going to buy and spend $$$ in a MS AR/VR headset because they are going to kill it in 5 years. Like Google does with everything.
lol
@@slateisaremember when people where up in arms over Google glass because it had a camera in it? Fast forward and you have a glasses company Rayban with cameras in them and no one bats an eyelid...
Not to mention things that weren't classed as ethical due to lidar in some things because you could see through some materials, so the Quest Pro didn't have lidar but then the Quest 3 did...
There's a lot of things in the world I don't quite get how it's not OK for one lot to do but then another can do it 6 - 12 months later.....
@@slateisathey Would not kill ar since ita already being used in various industries that could easly sue microsoft
They also abandoned xbox series s and x. And MS also abandoned Copilot+ laptops.
It should be illegal for them to do this. Come on EU, go get em ..
Sad truth is the EU alone can't regulate all the American tech companies instead of the US goverment.
This will never change unless the actual US regulators start doing their job.
The EU can't do anything, because the market for these things was pretty much entirely US based. If the market was larger in Europe and Asia to a point where disrupting the supply could hurt microsofts bottom line than yeah sure, but since the market is primarily America it won't do anything.
Unless tim sweeney ends up getting a hateboner for Microsoft ain't happening
Nah. It's just capitalism in action. Built-in-obsolescence for the win! (sarcasm BTW)
@@evo-labs sigh.... did your art professor teach you that? Because I know you never took economics, that's obvious
time to collect a petition to return all the devices to Microsoft for reimbursement
where do we sign???
Microsoft didn't make any of these devices.
@@SargonDragon Microsoft is the partner who is responsible for software support
That’s ridiculous- my Reverb G2 has loads of life left in it. Not okay.
Am I going to get home and discover my G2 doesn't work?... Man that would ruin my day. It's a great headset I just got it a couple weeks ago.
Same.. exactly my situation too...
@@stevenlarson3316 yeah dude!
I have 3 new in box ones and not enough paper for them to hold.
SAME and it had that USB C issue onn top of it.
So fucking angry with Microsoft. They will NEVER sell another product to me.
yeah they will... a computer with windows in it.
@@Viesta Not when SteamOS releases windows will suck my reverb!
@@Viesta🖥️ 🐧
You don't have to. You're bound to their platform while they siphon off your data and sell it to companies to generate ad revenue.
@@Viesta it would be such a shame if there were a Github script that activated Windows for free
What the hell, they were the only ones that were on the right path since the start with the insideout tracking
so much wasted potential.
I remember how the Index elitist used to complain about it, and now base stations are pretty much dead tech. Expect when you say this, some zombie Index user from 2019 arises from the dirt and starts telling how amazing it is to have to install base stations onto your walls.
@@Nobody-NowhereNgl, I am that guy. I'm not gonna tell anyone that Quest inside out tracking isn't absolutely great for any use case, but lighthouse tracking is noticeably better still if you are sensitive to micro drifting and micro stuttering etc.
Still, Quest 3 tracks REALLY good for a bunch of cameras, especially the controllers are impressive
@@Nobody-Nowhere Not really dead tech - just for different users. I own 2 WMR headsets and an index, so I'm not a zombie fanboy. For things like racing sims and flight sims I go WMR, but for normal VR experiences I go index (or the varjo I recently got). The base stations just make everything super nice. I never drilled them into my walls either - I just have a long stand for them and that works wonders.
My first WMR headset was actually the Odyssey+, way back in 2017. One of the channels that convinced me to grab one was this one, and it wasn't cheap because of Egyptian economy and absurd import costs. But I loved it! I primarily got it for Simracing, but eventually I started exploring other experiences. However, I did have to accept the many limitations of inside-out tracking and just the nature of the setup when it comes to things outside of cockpit experiences. Also, god forbid you try to play in the dark. (I like to keep my lights off, but WMR inside out tracking doesn't work here)
I got an index later down the line, and I loved using it for normal VR experiences! Was a much better and smoother experience for me, forgoing the limitations of Inside out tracking of the WMR headsets. However, I got the HP Reverb G2 last year because I find it to be better for driving and flight simming for me. Again, cockpit experiences are lovely in WMR.
Both sides have their ups and downs, but I wouldn't call base stations dead tech. Lots of modern VR headsets rely on base stations, both on the budget and high end side of things. VR headsets that utilize base stations still come out to this day, and that's for good reason. Additionally, the vast majority of VR accessories rely on base stations. A good example is Full Body Tracking. It's very, very popular nowadays, and many quest and WMR users are forced to get base stations if they want to buy the Vive Trackers. They then need to use third party tools to calibrate two playspaces, and not only is it jank and takes lots of effort, but it also drifts over time. Recently, trackers that don't use base stations have become somewhat mainstream (since they're a lot cheaper), but the tracking quality is much lower (not to mention the need to recalibrate over time).
Both base stations and inside out tracking have their place in the market. If Inside out tracking works well for you and the limitations don't bother you at all because of how you use your setup, then that's perfectly fine, but it doesn't justify blind hatred of the other side of the market. Same thing goes for the Index users you speak of - inside out tracking has it's place. It's convenient, and a lot of budget headsets now utilize it. It's limiting in a lot of ways, but if your use cases fit it then it's not an issue at all. Not sure why the index users you met bash other headsets. Get what you like, lmao. If anything I'm glad consumers are spoiled for choices nowadays compared to half a decade ago. The quest headsets also lowered the bar of entry a ton.
@@Nobody-Nowhere I love my Index, (I mainly use the Playstation VR2 paired with the Valve Knuckles now. XD) but inside-out tracking is easier to set up, and is still really impressive. Lighthouse tracking is better, but in my experience, isn't by a whole lot. Both have been GREAT in my experience.
dude, absolutely no apologies needed from your side!
I started watching this channel because you were basically the only one really talking about WMR. Its weird they cant just create a standalone driver for the headsets.
Not weird, just idiotic.
Typical from actual occidental short selling culture...^^
So boring.
Same
This is freaking messed up, of Microsoft to do. My first VR headset ever, was WMR. It was the Acer one. It's the sole reason I got into VR in the first place. Microsoft intentionally bricking these headsets, instead of just making them not receive updates anymore, makes no frickin' sense to me. That's such a douchey move. I also owned the HP Reverb G2 a few years ago, and it was a fantastic headset. I absolutely loved it, while I had it. I feel incredibly bad for those who only have WMR, currently and don't have a way of upgrading right now. Honestly screw Microsoft. Them doing this intentionally is such an anti-consumer move.
Oh, hey Ghost. Yeah, it's frustrating. I've been a Rift user, still am, but I can totally understand the issues at hand. I've had no desire to install 11 as I've stuck with 10 Pro. I'm not sure if these will brick on 10.
Tyriel is fuming. A rare sight.
I remember I had the Lenovo Explorer. I'm glad I upgraded and got rid of it. I hate that they can push updates to brick your hardware. They should receive a lawsuit. 😡
I wish I knew a good lawyer
Pretty sure any manufacturer technically could do something that bricks your hardware (especially meta or other standalone manufacturers) but yeah it doesn't sound legal.
I'm definitely pissed off. Definitely not buying any hardware accessories from Microsoft.
Man I would be happy to loose Mixed Reality Portal if my G2 just ‘worked’ with OpenXR or SteamVR by default, without the portal bridging. But sounds like that’s not happening either.
The problem is the tracking. This was (and is) completely handled by the WMR software. So without it, there is no chance running a WMR headset in SteamVR
@@b.s.7693 ahhhhhhh!!!
And this is why I don't pay for windows
Same.
i paid mine 10y ago for like a 1€, i think they don't care until you keep use their product lol
facts lol
that's why i pirate windows
Laws are needed that when companies do this that the customer should *at minimum* be 100% financially reimbursed at the launch MSRP price. That's not enough to replace the value of the item to the customer, given these are much cheaper than the other options available today, but it's the absolute least they can do. Or a law passed that if a company decides to do this, they need to open source the drivers.
Are you kidding, you never bought anything. You were only renting it to begin with, just like everything else.
wtf really? I have a reverb g2 which is fairly recent and still one of the best headsets
Welcome to the club.
Theres already a fix, it's on the reverb g2 Reddit.
@@ge2719 Could you link it?
@@ge2719 awesome this is what I was looking for!
There is not fix unless you mean stopping updates of windows
The incredible thing is Microsoft has reportedly struck a deal with Samsung for OLED panels that could power a new line of mixed reality headsets. This people are crazy. Nobody is going to buy and spend $$$ in a MS AR/VR headset because they are going to kill it in 5 years. Like Google does with everything.
Steamdeck proofed that Windows can be replaced. And I'm done with Microsoft!
I jumped on Windows Phone and on Mixed Reality with the Lenovo Explorer.
its just a shame the WMR opensource projects on linux are "working" but a bit of a sh*tshow to setup/get working well and even then bits work but not everything.
This is exactly why despite wanting one I didn't get one, I saw the mandatory online downloads and the fact it was dependent on consumer versions of Windows 10 and I went with a different brand that gives me offline installers without an account requirement. My entire VR setup can be reproduced without the internet so ill always own my headset, its not the company's to take away.
What annoys me the most is that this could be fine. If they'd publish all of this stuff, so people could make it work it would be fine. I'm not mad about them dropping support I'm mad about them making their devices dependent on support. Just because they don't will make many devices unusable. I payed a lot of money for my g2. This is absolutely unacceptable.
Never trust Microsoft or Google.
I wouldn't trust any corporation.
I never would have gotten into VR if it weren't for Windows Mixed Reality and its more affordable headsets as well as lower performance costs. I had a blast with my Lenovo Explorer being powered by a laptop with a GTX 1050ti. Heck, even aside from the software, the Samsung WMR controllers are my favorite VR controllers by far. They are comfortable to hold without slipping out of your hand, have a nice button layout, are easy to button map and customize, and don't suffer from analog stick drift. They are bloody fantastic.
I'm glad to still be using Windows 10. I'll have to keep an offline Windows 10 PC that has WMR and all of my games.
I remember years ago buying the Zune. Microsoft discontinued them mid stream and I told myself I’d NEVER buy another Microsoft backed product again. Was the right decision
Nothing says "F-U" quite like Microsoft. Another nail in their "customer loyalty" program.
I just bought a used Oddysey+ man...
They have solid experience with shooting themselves in the foot. At the end of the day, the community will rise to the challenge. I had a feeling I should keep my gaming pc on W10.
Completely agree, I hate how this is happening more and more.
_ANOTHER_ reason to not use win 11 😮
I was happily using a Samsung Oddysey until I heard about the WMR news, I got an Index, I still miss the OLED though.
Hello from Italy Tyriel and thanks for the awesome video! If I can put my two cents, I'll leave one of the of the post I also wrote on reddit, which summarize my take on the situation:
Simply put, I won't let go the Reverb G2 'till it works, one way or another. There's simply no substitute for it, and I tried almost everything (and I also use quite regularly both Quest 3 and PSVR2). I never had a single issue with the cable, or with WMR itself, and performance-wise it's far superior to the Quest 3 on the same hardware, with INCOMPARABLE video quality, due to the DisplayPort signal vs streaming (which is unbearable to me in more graphically complex games, even using WiFi 6E, or Link cable with 960mbit data rate).
I'll keep Windows 10 and 11 23H2 locked on my PC with the InControl application, and then I'll use 0patch to receive future security updates after 2025. But in no way am I gonna stop using a headset I love and have spent a lot of money on. Just yesterday I was playing Subside, and, needless to say, it's incredible visually on the G2.
You know he’s pissed when he swears..
I can't believe this is even possible... How is the most expensive peripheral I bought able to be made obsolete with a system update?! I love my G2! Microsoft so scummy, I'll never forget this
Ok so ultimate solution for WMR users is to move to Windows 10 IOT Enterprise LTSC 2021 which will be supported till 2032 not only will you get to use win 10 you will also get at least 8 more years out of your wmr headsets
Thats probably not going to help.
AFAIK the SteamVR drivers will be pulled from steam in november 2026.
@@taumelscheibe5948 even if so not like they can force uninstall them plus steam tends to have a golden rule of installed once forever yours even if they do pull it those that used it should still have access
Unbelievable behaviour from MS. I can’t believe folks at Microsoft thought this would be okay.
Just a heads up from a techo that Win11 23H2 (the update before 24H2) goes end of support Nov 11 2025. So, after that date it won't receive security updates; kind of forcing you to go to 24H2 or risk the vulnerabilities in the OS. I'm a proud Reverb G2 user, and when I heard about this deprecation it had me fuming. We're forced to use Windows as a service, and the deprecation timelines that go with it. It's funny that core to the broader Windows ecosystem is backwards compatibility. However, Microsoft are generally forced into that approach at the application layer due to the wide install base. It's so sad to see them kill WMR off without a supported solution; and I'd wager it's so they no longer have to factor in WMR app compatibility testing across major feature update releases. They invented WMR, dipped their toes in the water and put the risk on the shoulders of their hardware partners. There was no further development and a minimum of investment, hence the platform failed to grow as it should have. The parallels to Windows mobile are (as mentioned) a great example.
Old news. Microsoft announced last year they would be killing WMR and it has been known for several months now that it would occur with 24H2, why I bought a Quest 3. I have literally no idea why people are reporting this just now.
No need to apologize, I also thought that Microsoft's support and ecosystem wpuld last longer than most others. Sadly they had a lot of missed opportunities. Your reviews got me into VR with a WMR headset but I've since moved on to better ones. Not always because of the platform but often it's the spec uodates and compatibility that make me uograde. I appreciate your channel and how it introduced me to VR, there's never a need to apologize
The reason microsoft is deprecating the windows headsets is to increase their sales margin for their future partnership with Meta and the open source OS that they would use for the Xbox VR Headset. They want to make sure there is no better option but to use those headsets.
That’s exactly right!
I just did a fresh install of W10 a couple of weeks ago and as Tyriel said it's still working and will continue to work. I am sure someone will develop a way for these headsets to keep working in the not so distance future, so don't lose hope guys.
Thank you for the video and zero people would be blaming you man, keep up the great work
I'd like to see people sticking to those WMR headsets for a while because I'm certain projects like OpenHMD will be continued now by folks who really wanna keep using these brutally underrated yet super simple and amazing VR headsets.
I can say I loved my Lenovo Explorer and gave it to a friend two years ago who never knew what to pick up and who also now has my machine from back then.
Phew, when you said bricked I thought like the device itself becomes a paperweight, even when going back to Windows 10 PC
Merci Tyriel for your video ! I like my HP Reverb G2 ! I hope we find an other solution to use all those headsets !! Merde Microsoft !!😈
I hope so too!
I'm staying on Win10. I love my Reverb too much. Been watching your "through the lens" videos for years. Thank you, Tyriel!
Damn I remember when the reverb g2 was being launched and I was weighing up getting one over a valve Index, I'm sure glad I went with the Index.
Create a restore point, if somehow microshaft pushes the update to u, u can go back
I hope worthy HP reverb replacement comes before my G2 gets bricked. Valve, Samsung, Asus, Lenovo, LG where are you?
:shines the vr bat signal:
They're out there targeting mass consumer products while looking at Meta pouring millions into VR with little profits to show for it
I wonder how much we can trade our G2's for? 🤔 Oh, that's right, not a thing - they're absolutely worthless now.
Didn't microsoft make VR possible on pc to begin with starting with windows 8? Strange decision.
What a bummer. 😢
stopping support and completely removing are two very different things. It speaks to the incompetence of microsoft engineers that they couldn't even separate wmr from the OS and have it work without support
I am using the dual boot solution because my reverb g2 stop working on windows 11 for an unknown reason so I am already prepared.
I am surprised you are just talking about this now. This issue was brought up several months ago that Windows 11 updates will kill using VR headsets mixed reality.
Right now I have all Windows 10 systems and have no plans to go to Windows 11.
Thanks allot Microsoft. YOU SUCK big time!!!!!!!
Reverb G2 was the only headset with a cable, which I considered buying. I would be really pissed off right now. This headset is still good even today, and they made it useless 🤯
Yeah, they really don't give any F*s, or at least they don't see things the way we do at all, or respect for how they've got where they are. We'll see I guess 😅
Good work bud, always has been 👏👏
This situation is ridiculous. Microsoft really should get sued for that.
its been almost exactly a year with my reverb g2, this is disappointing
I gave my Dell Visor away last year. It was collecting dust, I hadn't used it in like 2 years and a friend of mine wanted to dip his toe into VR. At the time I refused to take any money for it, and now I'm glad. I would have felt terrible.
The reverb g2v2 is one of the best hmd’s around and was a perfect replacement for my index
:-( Windows Mixed Reality is how I got started in VR. I loved my Samsung Odyssey. I moved to Oculus bc I liked being untethered to the PC. I hate that we're losing the option.
Set windows to get only security updates using something like ChrisTitus's debloat tool to make sure your WMR HMD doesn't turn into a paperweight so soon
What is with these giant companies doing things like this? This happens so often..... they're ahead of the game, doing amazing things. Sell a product, dont keep up wiith it, put everything on the backburner then denounce the tech, while everyone else is using what they pioneered, to prove them completely wrong. Then they jump back in like we're all supposed to be impressed. And they constantly mess with our wallets. Like meta buying up every game studio for a while, doing absolutely nothing with them then dissolving their teams and fully removing their games from the quest store after we already paid for the damn thing.
I really do think there needs to be a huge lawsuit. Currently the concept of ownership is so blurred. All the software we have, we have to assume is a rental. But our HARDWARE? Nahhhh, thats a step too far. Consumers need to put their foot down and let these corps know that we're not gonna just let them turn our perfectly working tech into $800+ paperweights on a whim.
All that rage, turn it into learning to code. Learn to make drivers. Make your investment worth while instead of that soon to be paperweight you see every time you look at your desk.
My first headset was a second hand Lenovo explorer, which I used so much that it bricked on me. I liked the headset and being the first thing that got me in vr was amazing. Without software support such an experience will be limited if at all possible. This means less people in vr.
Don’t let the industry take a step back, make the drivers and the change you want to see.
Lenovo Explorer was my first headset! Loved that, flawed as it was. You couldn't argue with the £150 price tag!
On one side, Valve is discretly fixing SteamVR for Linux and Gnome finally integrated the Wayland protocole needed for VR on Wayland session. On the other side Microsoft is killing Windows Mixed Reality.
I'm in the comfortable situation that a) I already planned on upgrading from the Reverb G2 to the Pimax Crystal Light and b) I got a 2nd PC with Win10 I can still use the G2 with, but not everyone got that option so I'm 100% with you: MS should have at least made it possible to use WMR hmd with OpenXR.
Never heard Ty swear before, really sells how fucking pissed we all are
WMR, HoloLens, Surface Duo, Windows Phones, Zune...
Microsoft has absolutely no problem burying expensive hardware platforms people invest so much money into just because they don't dominate their respective industry within several years, and that's not even touching on the wildly depressing graveyard that is their software portfolio. There comes a point when their physical products need to start coming with a huge asterisk next to them urging customers not to expect it to be more than a paperweight within a few years from purchase.
I wish I knew more legal things, this feels like the kind of thing people would start a class action lawsuit over.
They saw how gaming companies are doing this with games and said "Hold my beer"...
If you are no longer supporting a system, means you are not working to keep the security vulnerabilities in check...best to delete that system from the users PC, and put the resources that could go into simple security updates for 80,000 users into making the new Ai copilot stuff not become a major vulnerability to millions of users who are forced to have it run as a background task because MS spyware right? Makes sense when you look at it like that.
I went to Windows Mixed Reality as a hedge against Meta’s encroachment and this is how MS do me.
Windows 11 didn't even exist when these headsets came out. And I have no plans on getting windows 11. So that's why I was fine getting a cheap g2 off eBay a few months back as my work desk pc headset.
Plus there was already a way to ensure the reverb g2 works fine on windows 10, posted to Reddit ages ago.
How much did you pay for it
@@Davids6994 £100
And absolutely do update, if you don’t use a wmr hmd, but an amd cpu (zen4/5) for an average of est. +10% gaming performance.
Empathy is your forte I see 🫠
Look: I had a g2 myself, I gave it away to a w10 user and lost more than 80%. But this is no reason to get sentimental. The upgrade has some serious advantages, probably for more people, as there are or have been wmr owners around. And that is why I think, this information is not harmful at all.
just went from samsung odyssey + to quest 3
it seems like for those on a budget like me its now a choice between quest 3 & sony psvr2
rip wmr !
So glad i have the Pimax Crystal for sim racing.
Microsoft has neglected so many opportunities to cultivate VR through Game Pass and their own storefront. You can't even search for VR compatible games in Game Pass (even though they exist), and some that are VR compatible on other platforms have been stripped of that functionality for God knows what reason - Lucky's Tale (ironically) and Senua's Saga, for example. It would've been next to nothing for them to make Game Pass a showcase environment for VR potential, but it's like they are not just complacent towards VR, but actively opposed to it. I just don't get it. 😮💨
Windows 10 support wil stop
Just a matter of time
@@Tyrielwood, unfortunately, that "matter of time" will be on October 14, 2025.
Another year with one's G2 is better than nothing, I guess--which is what Windows 11 users are getting with this update.... 😢
If they can make seperated drivers. Or make it opensource. Then problem is solved, we can fix it by ourselves and keep it alive.
Totally not your fault Tyriel, you cant predict what crap decisions a mega corp is going to make in the future...
This really sucks because I'm using HP reverb G2 V2 and it's very unfair for everyone using mixed reality. Like they should've left it alone.
This makes me really really really happy I sold my G2 3 months after its launch. The software was terrible in the beginning and barely useable + I learned I'm not a sim VR user. I don't trust anything from microsoft/HP or any of those large companies. Super excited for valve's new headset. An ecosystem and a company I trust
also meta
@@陸 Ya I've held off buying a headset because I don't want to own one from them. Every so often a chinese company comes in the industry but I just trust them. Its a lot of money to put down and if they bounce out a couple months after I buy in then that really sucks. The only VR device thats even tempted me is the bigscreen beyond but I didn't want to go in first gen for them
Proud owner of Asus WMR, the premium prince of the budget kings
The end of your video was awesome!!! Keep up the good work!! I absolutely love my Reverb G2, the clarity, comfort and easy of use make this an all time great headset, but then there is Microsoft, grrrr!!!
This needs a stop killing games initiative but for hardware.
I didn't see any potential to move from win10 to 11, I guess I will stick to it more.
If i owned this headset in the UK i would take them to the small claims court. It will cost very little and you could end up getting most or all of your money back.
This is one of the reasons I went with the Valve index. I had the Oculus Rift S as my first VR headset only to have it go EOL just a couple of years later. Another reason I went with the Valve index is for its Linux support out of the box (screw you microsoft!)
As a lenovo owner this pushed me to get a Quest 3, will see how long i can
Thank you for making this video ❤
Would it not be possible to create 3rd party SteamVR drivers to get these working? There is Linux support Monado is the OpenXR runtime project that underpins support for WMR and Rift S and other headsets so surely its possible
Thanks for letting us know. If this was done in 5-years' time it would be entirely reasonable; but as it is, this is a total dick-move by Microsoft. Windows Mixed Reality has always been utter crap compared to the other main VR platforms, and I have hated every minute of being forced to use it with my excellent HP Reverb G2, but withdrawing it so soon is ridiculous: I'll be leaving the update well alone.
Microsoft behaving like Google
Congratulations on giving me even less reason to upgrade to Windows 11, Microsoft!
Your job as a consumer is to purchase as many products and services as possible over the course of your lifetime, in order to maximize profit for the companies that sell them. This includes minimizing the time period that a product exists in the market place and therefore its support. Regardless of if you agree with this or not, that is the fact of how the current capitalist economy functions. Also, people should not forget that the vast majority of 'TH-cam influencers' that present videos on these products are just providing proxy marketing for those companies, and are unlikely to boycott a company for the aforementioned type of behavior because like those companies they are in it for the money. So the cycle continues...
At least Google's graveyard is mostly software or services.
After using computers for a while (like over 20 years for me) you simply learn that Microsoft always does this and you should not invest in any of their products if you value long term support. Consider everything they do a one-off. Like their new "copilot+ AI bullshit" products. They probably stop supporting and developing that in a year and remove all the features from windows.
If you are dependent on windows try to remove as much as possible and don't use any of Microsoft services. You'll have a happier life :D
All they need to do is make it compatible with SteamVR. At least that would give the headsets a life of purpose after the main windows features stop.
They are compatible with SteamVR, but it still requires support from Windows to function.
Sounds like class action to me. I'd be so pissed off if this happened with my rift s, I don't understand why it can't do vr at least
you said you moved away from WMR a while ago. What do you use now? What headsets besides "quest" headsets don't use WMR? Are there other headsets that use their own softwares? Thank you for the video. I've been using my G2 for 5 years!
There's the HTC Vive headsets which use Steam VR instead of Oculus or WMR
WMR is old and outdated. No new VR headsets have been released that use WMR in years. So what headsets besides Quest don't use WMR? The answer is _all of them._ Anything even vaguely current. Bigscreen Beyond, Pimax Crystal and Crystal Light, etc. Even most old headsets like the Valve Index didn't use WMR. WMR was never popular in general. Just the Reverb G2 was popular with a narrow niche of flight simmers.
I bought the HP Reverb based on your review bro! Now it's landfill!!
Ehh. Ish happens.