Yeah that's rough. It's totally understandable. Lots of people in and out of there. If he said I just killed all your friends I'd think wow he has a drark sense of humor wtf?
Lauren and Dr. John, I first want to say thank you for amazing content. Dr. John, I’m a therapist and I just wanted you to know that your discussion of OCD in this video may have helped me save a client’s life or at least allowed me to guide me in the right direction, which resulted in saving someone from suicide. I was having a really hard time treating a client with severe SI and very serious attempts when I listened to this. None of the typical interventions had worked, and I just had a feeling that this particular client’s presentation was different than what we typically see in suicidal clients. Somehow when you talked about OCD in this context, I realized that this person obsessed over SI with a specific method, would become increasingly more occupied with the ideas, and eventually attempt in a way that was more consistent with a compulsion than an attempt made by a depressed individual or someone with BPD, which is what this client had been diagnosed with by other providers. Since treating this individual for OCD both through psychotherapy and medication-management, they have not attempted or even become highly obsessed with the idea. So I just wanted to say thank you. You are making a difference in this world beyond what your specific goal is.
It may not be exactly the best time to say this, during a dark subject. I know you both are smart, talented, nice, gifted, and strong independently . However, you two are made substantially better together. I hope you are always happy and healthy in your marriage. ❤
Thank you. Dr John makes so much sense and I appreciate how he speaks in a way us common folk can understand. Kaylees father has said that the room mate was the person who had passed out when the 911 call was made. I can only imagine the poor roommates trauma that they are and will be dealing with. Rather than speak of what we think they should have done, I for one will pray for them and all the families to be able to heal from this horrific act.
I do t understand how someone can pass out for 7 and a half hours. Maybe she passed out and then fell asleep .. may e she had been drinking too. The brain can do some weird stuff.
Whatever happened she should not be blamed …what a traumatic event …hopefully she will psychologically recover. Had she called or not …those poor kids’ fates were sealed.
@therealz 360z It wouldn't be PTSD ... PTSD happens way later ... but it could be shock that made her initially faint and then she just continued sleeping.
@@theeggtimertictic1136 she suffered from ptsd from something in her past, not from this, at least not that quickly. But she often had horrible night terrors, caused by the ptsd. This Is NOT verified. This is heresy from someone who apparently was there the following day. She had been drinking and had been asleep. She wasn't sure what of the things she was hearing n seeing, including seeing the killer, were real or night terrors. She didn't realize until the following day that it was real. I suspect(from dealing with ptsd myself) she may also take a medication to help her sleep, its pretty common with ptsd patients to have to take something. I would imagine if so, the combo of alcohol and sleep meds would of greatly added to her confusion. I do not judge her, don't mistake that. She's doing what college kids do.....just stating my opinion and theory. But I do NOT know if this info ( some of it anyway) is a true fact....) She did not call 911 at all ever as seems to be the assumption. She passed out after finding the roomates, and someone else on the scene called. That came from Kaylees dad. I think the other roommate called,, but she was hyperventilating so the operator couldn't understand her. I believe a 3rd person got on the phone n that's where the details of an unconscious person came in. The caller didn't know people were dead inside at that time. .... these are details that match n help make sense of some of the verified info that don't make sense so I believe them to be true. Hope that helps you get a clearer picture of how ptsd affected her
@@IzzyMarielIts called Empathy and I have it in spades ( I empathize with the victims, and their love ones....As for his behavior ...if you condoning it ( your incredibly Niave maybe you should reconsider the stack of evidence against him....and yes ( I would spare my family the shame he has put on his family ....(TAKE a polygraph)...lets just see how much he is willing to do to go to prove his innocence ....NEighbours garbage....HELLO are you a completely insane!!!
@@IzzyMariel how am I shaming the victims ie (parents....surely they know the evidence is extraordinarly more than circumstancial ...BUT its your opinion that my Opinion is INSANE....Kudos I hope you feel better!!! Warmest of regards ...
I would love for Dr. John to provide his top 10 of recommended reading. I see you have a book club coming. Very excited for that! Thank you both so much. You are delightful.
When a stranger covered in blood and carrying a huge knife walked into that girl's bedroom, saying I'm here to help you sounds like a cruel, sadistic taunt. They both knew he was going to kill her.
When I read DM’s account of BK walking past her, I didn’t read it as if she had been physically outside of her room and he walked by her. To me it sounded like he walked past her door and she was looking at him through her open door. Perhaps she hadn’t opened the door the whole way, but just had it slightly open like when you stand just inside a doorway peeking out. I assumed that’s how it went down and if her room was dark he just didn’t see her. But I could be wrong. Hopefully, we’ll get more details about this encounter.
I am beginning to wonder .If the 2 girls were the target....With Xnana being awake.She could have seen him and he killed her first and then her Boyfriend.After that he went upstairs and killed the girls.....the dog started Barking .at 417.I am thinking he ran past the room mates door with his focus to get out of here...Just maybe Xanax and her Boyfriend might of been saved if both were asleep.He was only there for the girls.Unfortunately Xanax saw him before before he went upstairs.Just thinking Maybe???Thoughts???
@avituss3569 I have been going over and over this in my head as well. I always assumed that what you described is how it went down as well: that he killed Xana and Ethan first because they were a threat, and then went after Kaylee and Madison. But now I’m questioning this sequence based on the timeline in the affidavit. So we now know that Xana was still okay at 4:12 a.m. because she was on Tik Tok. The surveillance video camera picks up what sounds like Xana’s final moments at approximately 4:17 a.m. It seems from DM’s account that BK walked by her/by her door coming from Xana’s room. This is because when you look at the layout, one side of DM’s room is located by the foot of the stairs going up to the third floor and the other side is the little hall leading to Xana’s room. DM said he walked towards her, then through the kitchen (her door faces the kitchen, and then out the sliding glass door. She doesn’t say she saw him coming down the stairs from the upper level. Also, if she was peeking at him from inside her doorway, her vantage point would have been towards Xana’s room, not the stairs. His car was then seen leaving the area at 4:20 a.m. So now I’m thinking that when DM heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms at approximately 4:00 a.m. (probably some time after 4:04 when his car was seen) I think was she was hearing the attack on Kaylee and Madison. And the affidavit states that the person she heard say, “there is someone here” may have been Xana because she was still awake and on Tik Tik at 4:12. So now I’m thinking Xana may have heard something and looked out of her room and saw him coming down the stairs and then told Ethan, “there’s someone here.” The dark barking at 4:17 could have been because he heard the attack on Xana and Ethan. It’s plausible the dog heard it because the camera picked it up 50 yards away so perhaps he heard it, too. So if that’s the sequence of events, then he would have killed them for the same reason you stated, because she saw him. Unless, I’m wrong and she was a target as well.
I agree for the most part, but since X & E we’re both found in X’s room, it makes me wonder why he would have followed them into her room to kill them when it would have been less risky to flee quickly than to take on two awake people. I wonder if he first became obsessed with either M or X from a visit to the Mad Greek. I’d be interested to hear if their manager or co-workers ever heard them complain of a creepy guy that hit on them (which he may have gotten the hint and felt rebuked). I don’t think he would have “fit in” at a party. These kids were very bubbly and outgoing. I think he would have caused major red flags if he showed up to a party. Steve Goncalves said that K & M’s wounds didn’t match. He didn’t compare to E & Z. We really don’t know, and even if K’s wounds more brutal than M’s, it doesn’t necessarily mean she was the target…she could have been more of a threat and needed more force to stop her.
You 2 are by far The Best & most thorough. Dr. John took it to another level by showing empathy for Bryan. The How & Why of it all. I sincerely thank you for helping us understand human nature, the Good, Bad & Ugly.
Thankyou for your fair and empathetic coverage of this case. The survivors are being bashed relentlessly across SM, it's good to see here that they are being spoken abt sensitively. 💕
Wow, thank you SO much John for mentioning the book that looks at the factors influencing how mass killers become mass killers. The more I hear about this Idaho case and about what this defendant was like years ago, the more I have been thinking about what can wider society learn from this case (I know that the trial hasn’t even started yet and the public has limited information despite the detail that LE has been willing to share so far in the affidavit)…but surely we can identify some early lessons? Your mention of the book and key findings from the book I found so interesting. Don’t get me wrong, not everyone who is bullied at a young age goes on to be a killer but bullying is clearly a common trait in the history of this specific type of criminal. My biggest fear as a woman and as a mother of a young woman is - what more can women do to protect themselves? I am certainly not getting into victim blaming here - I abhor those who victim-blame. I am terrified however about not knowing how best to brush off/reject/dismiss a man’s unwanted advances and interest. If a woman does it dismissively, it feels like she as equally at risk of harm as if she does it nicely and IF the man has ill-intentions. What is a woman to do???? It’s scary. I also to think there is wider societal discussion that needs to be had about sexual and non-sexual aggression towards women in general. As a woman in my 5th decade who was stalked and followed home as a teenager by a much older man (thankfully he never got close enough to me to cause bodily harm), this case is very triggering for me and it never leaves you. I hope that, somehow, it results in either changes in law and/or societal changes that helps prevent harm to women. Thank you for this episode - it’s why I come to your TH-cam channel - I know that I am guaranteed to find intelligent and highly illuminating content 🙏
Ironically this highly educated, legally savvy, long bullied, recovered addict and PhD student chose to commit his homicides under cover of night w a knife vs gun precisely as he fancied himself brilliant enough to avoid ballistics or to plan and pull off the perfect crime yet made such amateur mistakes. Totally agree he'd have inevitably reoffended if not apprehended.
Great live !!!!! Packed full of helpful info. Very well explained. I can see Ms. Lauren was having a hard time with some of the details. This breaks my heart for all 6 of his victims. DM and BF are victims also. I can't imagine living that night over and over. TY for this live.
@@_Michael_Scott Ha! And would need a dictionary for every 5th word ... and just couldn't be bothered. Their "literary" skills amount to acronyms and incorrect simple English (which they don't even recognize, i.e. "there" instead of "their," "your" instead of "you're" ad infinitum). "Idiocracy" -- top 5 best films of all time!
True, he's one of the best. The sad thing is that due to the rise of the USSR, many brilliant Russian composers and writers, eg. Tolstoy, Sholzhenitsyn, etc. aren't read or even taught anymore. And yet, they have some of the most penetrating understanding, outside of maybe Kipling ( my personal favorite) that can be found. They deserve a new audience. Especially. Tolstoy.
“Bullying” is so hard to define, and it is certainly too hard for any school to quash the bully when behavior can have defenses as well. It’s a big deal to kick a kid out of school, and it is also hard to “prove” bullying unless there is electronic or physical evidence. The only bullying I’ve seen with zero tolerance is anything to do with race. Absolutely nothing else no matter how bad it is. My son and our family was viciously attacked by high school football players from another school. I put together a 15 page pdf of screenshots and evidence of names and a timeline and emailed it to the other school. We may never know what punishment they got, but everything was taken down, including the posts from a bogus account. I do know no one was kicked out of school. We need to do something about bullying, but I don’t know what the best way to stop it.
I think more education and discussions at the school about the topic should be permanent in school programs so All students have taken good solid advice and been in regular discussions about the issue
I just want to make sure y’all know - the affidavit never said that he (Bryan) saw her (D) the affidavit stated that she looked out her door and saw him. Of course, much has been redacted so we don’t know exactly what happened. Thank you both for all you do and thank you to all of the moderators, we appreciate all you do.
@@NEnigma777 thank you, I suppose I was worried about getting into an argument with someone online, which I have no time for - I agree with you 100%. I just wanted to point out truth! Thanks again!
My thought on what he said about "helping her," was that he had already injured her horribly and he was saying that because he planned ahead to kill her and he was "ending her suffering." He wasn't helping her, he was satiating his killing hunger. Either way, he is a horribly evil monster. Totally evil beyond words. Am so sorry for all that these poor students went through. May they rest in peace and am praying the two survivors get the help they need to heal and go on to have wonderful lives.
My mind could not even imagine at first that it was the *killer* saying "I will help you"! I hoped it would be Ethan. It is just too sick and sad to contemplate. But hearing you all discuss it so matter of factly I can't 'unsee' that scenario now. Poor, poor Xana😭😱
It is so disturbing to think the killer could have killed Ethan, with Xana crying says to her”It’s okay, I will help you.” before killing her. This guy deserves the worst possible punishment. This is so upsetting that he ambushes innocent people in their bedrooms.
@kerem9736 we all have struggles - every single day feels like a struggle to most people- hurting and over powering innocent vulnerable people is not the answer, no matter how many times a person feels hurt in life.
@kerem9736 Just to bring attention to the fact that my original comment had nothing to do with Brian, so your projection towards me should be re-examined
I'm sorry I missed the live feed! I have a theory about what may have triggered BK's alleged breakdown: I'm sure that many of us can identify with at least a low-grade sense of resentment toward frat bros and sorority sisters. In many ways, Greek life is an extension of the social hierarchy and popularity contests that often define a person's experience of high school -- presumably, a culture that tormented BK. BK consistently struggles to connect with his peers and he carries rejection wounds into higher ed, along with the goal of using the education to outwit violent inclinations he is struggling to control. It works well for awhile. With a lot of hard work, BK earns his masters degree, with accolades. His (pretty, young, female, online) professor recognizes that he is "brilliant," and he receives recommendations from both her and THE Dr. Kathleen Ramsland. He has the resounding approval of two important women and he's finally moving up in the world! He brings his new credentials and all that brilliance with him to WSU. After considerable academic success, he believes he now has some of that sweet social capitol that always eluded him. But nothing goes the way he envisions. He immediately alienates himself from his colleagues with his approach to class discussions. He's torn from the relative safety of his online coursework, playing in the academic big leagues, and serving as T.A. for undergraduate seminar classes comprised of 150 + students who seem to dislike him immediately. He grades too hard and struggles to communicate with the class. This ultimately culminates in a heated scene in which the professor calls on BK to stand up in front the entire auditorium class of coeds so the students can "go at him." (Words of WSU student Hayden Stinchfield). Now he loses all hope. His criminal justice career was supposed to do two critical things: bring him respect and give him mastery over his own mind. It has does neither. To the contrary, he finds himself in a perfect storm of stressors and he has run out of ideas. He gives up the inner fight and takes action. I think he outwardly demonstrates his surrender to his criminal thinking when he starts "rubber stamping" student papers. He no longer has faith in the subject of criminology and he has lost interest/passion for the curriculum.
Fabulous Summary , like throwing his hands in the air and addmiting to himself , What more can I do ? And then ' I will show them ' and sort of ' what do you think of me now ? That's my plain English speak on him , I knew a very dangerous Man who used to unleash horror and wreck property and anyone in his proximity as a way of Rubber Stamping his rage and then boast about his deeds saying , that sorted ye out. you think I am a monster, now you know what I am capable of .
I just want to say I love you both So much as a couple, as professionals and I really enjoy your channel. I am a new listener-subscriber and I really enjoy your relationship and professionalism. My new favourite channel ❤️
Re: the statement “I’m going to help you”, I wonder if he killed Ethan close to the door/hall, Xana saw and was in grief/fear, and his comment was almost like “I’m going to take away your pain.”
At 51:00 you ask if he studied these killers... he seems to be leaving breadcrumbs relating to other killers such as upon being arrested, he asked the same question as John Wayne Gary. Also he left the house leaving a woman alive who saw him as did Ted Bundy. He plays with numbers & dates etc.
I've been thinking a lot about the bullying BK experienced as a kid that turned an otherwise good-looking, intelligent young man into a 'monster'. I'd like to know what Dr John thinks families, communities and schools can do to prevent the kind of bullying that is turning young people into killers?
Thank you so much for this, I thought it was a good question about why is it that it is usually males that become serial killer instead of female. I find myself making comparison between the perp and me, both with OCD (his sounds pretty severe as well), into criminology and learning about serial killers, severely bullied for a long time, probably not the most stable home and both having intrusive thoughts yet he acted on his compulsion on violence while I've always firmly preferred to analyze those thoughts gotten more depressed/ anxious over those type of compulsive thoughts. I think its even more terrifying since he and I are the same age. Thank the gods above for whatever guardian angel protected the surviving roommates and may these 4 victims rest in peace.
Dr. Matthias, I unfortunately am an opiate addict, clean for 3 years. Like many assists, I believe the suspect used because of just phenomenally low self esteem. Most addicts endure severe childhood trauma. No excuse making for this pos (alleged), but just a bit of a backstory as to why people become what they do. He was bullied because of his weight. Hence the low self esteem. Keep up the great work.
I find it highly disturbing that people have anything to say about the poor girl that was there in probably didn't even know what she was looking at but she felt the terror. She did nothing wrong, nothing. Until one of us is in that situation where a blood-covered mask murderer walks towards us, we don't get to judge
I do also! It never crossed my mind she had any idea what was happening! She froze in fear it was dark and she thought he was coming for her. When she realized he was leaving she thought nothing was happening. She locked her door in case more people came back & went to bed. Imo
Wondering why she did not call 911 and waited until almost noon before doing so is a fair question. It is also something she will be asked in depositions and in court. Everyone has to face their action or inaction.
I am so glad someone is saying it. It’s disgusting to be honest. Can you imagine what the two survivors are going to have to endure for a long time to come. It’s so heartbreaking 💔 I’m in the UK but I’m a mum to three young adults and I have cried non stop for this whole terrible situation ❤
With Dylan, we don’t have her full statement, so she could have heard a lot more than is documented in the PCA. She could have heard everything, screams, crying, the dog barking, but tried to brush it off as her friends messing about or being drunk, or as her mind playing tricks on her in the middle of the night or that she was just being over dramatic. Maybe it wasn’t until the third time she looked out of her bedroom door and saw an unknown masked man walking towards her, that she put all the pieces together and realised something terrible had happened and that’s why she froze when she saw him. The PCA states: ‘The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene’. So Dylan never saw him leave. For all she knew he was still in that house all night. If she didn’t know he’d left the house, she could have been hiding, all night, terrified for her life. Thinking that any sound or movement she makes would alert him and he would come after her and kill her. In that situation do you call police and risk him hearing you and killing you too? or do your survival instincts kick in and make you hide and keep as quiet as possible - no one knows until they’re in that situation. She could have been hiding like that until the other roommate found her in the morning and told her it was safe to come out. In the morning both roommates might have found the bodies of their friends, brutally murdered, and both gone into a state of shock, panic, confusion and terror. Not able to think straight, not able to speak clearly or verbalise what has happened they contact their friends to come over and help them. We don’t know what they said in those calls or texts to their friends the next day. They could have just been sobbing on the phone. Everyone knows that we should call emergency services in a situation like that, but until we’ve experienced we don’t know how clearly we’d be thinking or what we would do.
Hi! I am literally just finding and binging all the good stuff! And yah, it’s late, but I wonder why Moscow? Why does this not happen in Pullman? Maybe trigger was in Pullman. And to “release” he goes hunting for victims in Moscow, thinking a small-town police crew will not be smart enough to figure it out! Just speculating but it does make me wonder why Moscow!
I can imagine that not getting the internship and then being dismissed from his tutoring job were the reasons BK believed his law enforcement/criminology career may be over (how would he pay to continue his PhD program?) and along with the fact that he was facing disciplinary action because he treated female students differently (turned into “it’s the women’s fault”) would probably ignite the aggression to a degree that he felt the need to act.
Seemingly, one of his research projects was to try to find out what murderers were feeling when they committed their crimes. Then he found out for himself. It may have liberated him somehow due to the reports of his being more socially involved after the crimes. He’s got creepy eyes.
👏 Another very informative live by the dynamic duo!! The look on Lauren's face when Dr.John said we don't vet our sources 🤣 The journalist in her ears perked right up like uh what did I just hear?! Of course she vets her sources! It was apart of her job.
The big problem is you can tell little kids not to bully but when everyone in the main stream political sector bullies to get votes… And it’s normalized to sit behind a screen and bully in the comment section…when big bullies like Trump become pples hero…good luck. Kids feel the hypocrisy. They know it’s a do what I say not what I do situation and so until pple in the entertainment & political spheres stop normalizing and encouraging bullying, we will continue to have unmerciful bullying & severe mental anguish showing up in pple
29:12 Bravo. That is classy. I've been wondering that from day 1, but if there is one thing this case has taught me, why speculate? It will come out eventually. I hope the TC people don't go after them.
Thank you very much for your insights. Great episode. I really appreciate the way you’re not sensationalize this case, but explain and treat it with respect.
Using my husband's channel cause it's open *** I was stalked as an adult vocational teacher. A young Asian student, mid 20s, graduated and then kept showing up. He'd either be in the library next to my classroom, staring at me through the window. He started standing in my parking spot. I'd pull in and park, just to see his face in my driver's window. It was terrifying and the school couldn't stop him. I finally went to the Director of Education, and a few of the other very senior male teachers, and threw myself at their mercy. I'm ashamed ( a little) to say that they surrounded him, threatened him, and told him what would happen if he was seen there again, and that stopped it. But it was terrifying. It went on for months and months.
Kaylee was only visiting that night and so was Ethan. So I feel Xana and Maddie were the targets on different floors.. and the other two got in his way. Edit: Or if he was stalking them that night ie: the grub truck... and Kaylee was the target... BK could of picked that night to finally attack.
Impossible and here's why. Timeline has (1) K & M at food truck at 1:30 am. - to approx. 1:56, when they rode home; all resident girls home by 2 a.m. (2) 2:47 a.m.: Kohberger's phone leaves his residence and travels south through Pullman -- then stops “reporting to the network," investigators say is consistent with phone being turned off. (3) Timeline eliminates possibility of him stalking at food truck. You're welcome.
Dr. John do you think something else had to happen in his childhood like something closer to home as in in the family? It seems to me like he was desperate to belong but also struggled to be loved. Like he did all of these things to better himself but couldn’t find love. I don’t think he knows what love is, which is why he was so confused about how to get it. But he was obviously desperate for it. So imo, those kinds of things start within a family dynamic. He may have had people along the way who cared for him but since he couldn’t recognize it he just kept trying to improve himself to make himself lovable because something made him think he wasn’t. And I believe that started somewhere within the family dynamic when he was young. ETA: Imo children who grow up in homes with these kinds of issues are more likely to be and easier to be bullied.
How come they haven’t added stalking charges yet? Do you think they’re going to add them or will it be too difficult to prove? So sad and sick, I feel so bad for the 4 families plus the surviving roommates. I’d be curious to know more about his family and their psychology.
Question for Dr. John: Many of us were bullied as children and possibly even as adults, yet we don’t choose to murder people (allegedly, he is innocent until proven guilty)……yet my question still stands existentially. Thanks for your wonderful channel! I always know I will get unbiased, thoughtful truth on your channel!!❤
@@musicbrazilian7065 I have never heard of a kid being bullied so bad people were throwing bottles at him? Where were the teachers? And I’m not making excuses for him but I don’t get how that was allowed to happen.
I’m in the replay crew! John said something interesting about BCK realizing he wasn’t the smartest in the room. I have a question about graduate school. From my experience in a PhD program, the process tends to break students down, way down . You come into the program the best of the best, and very quickly get into situations trying to prove yourself as some sort of expert in a field you’re still a novice in. The competition among students, from my experience, is rough. It often felt like bullying to me. Plus moving away from home at the same time-new home, new school, new city, etc. He likely moved to Pullman at the beginning of August. TAs usually arrive early for training. The first day of classes was 8/22. BCK was already stalking the house 8/21. How did this begin so quickly?
@@Somebody33390 Maybe I’m assuming he did? He graduated with his master’s from DeSales June 2022. It makes logical sense fall 2022 would be his first semester.
@@exeterline1930 Are you asking me? If so, I’d say it depends. Sometimes right away. Students usually come into programs with professors they want to study under. Some students come into their program with a topic already. Sometimes PhD work is an extension of master’s thesis work. Sometimes it comes later after a couple of semesters of courses. I had an interest in my field, but didn’t have my project decided on until second year, and it was totally different work from what I did in my master’s thesis.
@@TheAvocadoProfessor Yes, I was asking you. Thank you very much for giving such a great, thorough explanation. I wondered if he murdered to use that experience to inform his research in a deep background kind of way. It's just as criminal as murdering for other reasons, but nonetheless could be part of the reason. When people question why he murdered so soon after he started his PhD program believing the research doesn't come until the end of the program, I had suspicions that the research topic was in mind from day 1 of the program. Your answer addressed that. Thanks again.
He is vegan, The first vegetarian restaurant that pops up in Google for Moscow is the place where Kylee and Xena worked. Likely that he first saw them there.
To correct timeline the “stalking was 12 times since August”. In regards to why the surviving roommates waited 7 hours before calling 911. In my opinion the roommate DM likely never knew what had happened until the time someone called possibly the other roommate who got up before DM finding Xana on the floor outside her bedroom or near the bathroom. I believe DM just locked herself in her room staying quiet until hearing her other roommate.
I think DM was truly freaked out by the person but was half asleep and likely under the influence. She shut her door and locked it and fell asleep when everything was quiet for sometime. She probably talked herself out of the thought it was an intruder, and probably convinced herself she was being paranoid. It wasn’t until the next day with the revelation of her roommates being dead did she realize that indeed it was an intruder who murdered her friends. She was probably in complete shock at that point and was barely able to speak or even move. She was paralyzed in shock and fear and regret for not calling 911. Bless her heart…I’m sure she is so traumatized (now knowing) and can probably barely function. I’m sure police and her family were very fearful that she would be found and killed if the killer knew she saw him and was still a threat to his being caught.
@@teraallan Makes the most sense, She probably knew nothing about it or obviously hoped it was just a friend etc. Many times roommates don't know who is know who and what is going on. STILL, it seems like she would hear something of a struggle or screams?? Let's just jump to suspicions, Was she drunk or high?? Weed is legal in Washington, only minutes away...
@@NLANDXP We don’t know if she heard screams or not. If when it all comes out in trial that she did hear screams, it is even more strange that she didn’t call 911 after seeing the intruder. However, I’m just tired of everyone villionizing everyone surrounding these girls. I was one of them! After watching a TH-cam video, I told my husband (who thinks I must be out of my mine to get into this murder so much) that Jack S was indeed the one…a few days later…it was Jack D and then a few days later I was convinced it was Inan. I reflect on myself and how terrible it was to make this into a soap opera murder mystery while these people’s lives were being RUINED on the internet. I’m mad at myself for judging with so few facts! Once the police announced a suspect that was on no one’s radar, I realized that not only did they tell us only a few vague details, but the details (ie the roommates were asleep on the first floor and didn’t hear anything) were actually false in order to protect the witnesses! I’ve decided for myself that I cannot judge anyone in a negative light until I hear all the true facts (except for BK 😝)!!!! I don’t want anyone else’s life to be ruined by snap judgements.
@@NLANDXP I just talked to my husband who is a trial lawyer. After he told me how ridiculous it is for all of us to focus in on this one event when there are crazy murders every day (blah blah blah). This is what he said about DM. “She is toast.” The defense lawyer will cross examine her to completely discredit her testimony to the point the jury will agree that NO REASONABLE person would see that intruder and close the door and go to sleep. If she was drunk and stoned out of her mind…maybe. However, if that’s the case then we surely can’t rely on her recall of what she heard and says she saw. He said that if he was the defense lawyer, he would also use this to turn the table and point the finger AT HER being the murderer or being involved in the murders. Reasonable doubt for BK. Wow. The mind of a creative trial lawyer…
@@teraallan Lol, let's wait for the DNA tests on his famous Hyundai Elantra. It may yield very incriminating DNA from all victims. No wonder he was cleaning it "within an inch" before he was arrested. Casting DM as the killer will look ridiculous when all the evidence against BK is revealed. (still presumed innocent..)
Thank you for your insight into this horrific crime. I love the way you use your insight and knowledge into trying to understand the perpetrator, honor the victims and survivors and not being sensational to get likes and clicks. It's important to understand the crime and crimina,as well as, the family dynamicsl so that we can recognize and perhaps stop the next heinous crime. Mental Health should be as important as physical health in this country. By the way I love the dynamic duo!!! 💙💜🙏🏼
You don’t need to sensationalize for clicks when you know your insight & content are pure fire! Bravo to this duo! Been a follower of the pod going back to the beginning. I love watching your following grow
I am so sick of everyone being so hard on DM. None of us have ANY clue what she was feeling in that moment or what she was going through. We have become such a judgemental society without ever realizing we all are affected by things differently. If you have never been in that situation, then you have no business judging DM.
I feel/think much much more is going to come to light. My questions are: Does he recognize other peoples boundaries in general? Single mindedly self-involved in conversation and oblivious to others thoughts? Does he enjoy digging into others personal details and ask questions of strangers that are unnervingly too familiar? Do people sense and feel put off by him as sense he is sizing them up and getting info to store away like a future weapon cache and/or competively one up? Is he compelled to compare himself competitively with others all of the time? Impulsive passive hatefulness brewing under a facade of smiles and inclusive overtures? **All I REALLY want to know is how to recognize a sociopath/psychopath? How to NOT be a target/victim? How to protect others from same?
Pay attention to how you feel in their presence when you first meet hem. If you feel exposed, like you're being sized up, they hold eye contact a little too long, if they decide you are a good target, they will gush over you, tell you everything you want to hear, they will soon become everything you ever wanted. When they get you mesmerized, they'll start doing little things that make you doubt your own sanity. You'll find yourself apologizing for things you didn't do. It's a gradual thing (boiled frog) and one day you realize the dream has turned into a nightmare.
I think it is downright odd that he was stalking them and they were likely often up past the wee hours after being out and Door Dash was ordered and he comes in right at or just after that time. But then all else he did was stupid without covering his tracks so I guess maybe not. Hurts to know one or some were up and still didn't manage to get away from this creep before four were killed. I just can't quite wrap my mind around that except I guess he was quiet and their guard was down probably.
I have nothing to contribute to the conversation but felt compelled to tell you Lauren that your 💄 💋 is absolutely perfect for your skin tone and is beautiful tonight. You're always super pretty, but that lipstick is 🔥🔥🔥.
I survived a serial killer abduction in 1987, and of everything I went through, during that twelve-hour ordeal and fight for my life, the thing that traumatized me the most was the revelation he had been stalking me for four months and knew everything about me; yet I had no memory of seeing or speaking to him even once. He had zero interest in a relationship with me. His only goal was to kill me, and he had fantasized about it obsessively until the moment he knew it was time to do it. His hunger around the act of killing me was like watching a starving dog with a huge steak. Point being: he had never attempted any connection or interaction with me. He hungered only to kill me and savor every minute of doing exactly that.
@@jojo683 Ah, my dear, it was 36 years ago. I was a young, innocent girl, and I was changed to my core forever. Nothing was ever again the same, and I had severe PTSD for twenty years. Miraculously though, I’ve been free from it all - for the most part - since 2009, and I don’t want to go back. It would only bring it all back. I mention it here though, to say these girl’s didn’t have to interact with, or reject this guy at all. They could have just wandered into his crosshairs like I unknowingly did all those years ago. There’s so many possibilities.
@@sanddollar252 Yes and I'm sorry I ask. Really I should've stopped myself to think how that must of made you feel. You shared quite a lot and the message is a good one! You could write a book because I was hanging on every word and I'm cheap but I'd have paid good money to hear the rest! So glad you're doing well now. It's so true crazy doesn't ever have a reason!
@@jojo683 You’re precious, and you’ve done nothing wrong. Were the rolls reversed I might have asked you the same thing. I don’t tell my story. In fact, that may be the first time I ever put those words in print. It seemed appropriate though.
We all need to give grace and kindness to the surviving roommates … these girls will never be the same 🥲🥲🥲
Agree 100 % 🎯💯
I think it's really grandiose behavior when someone decides what "we all" need to do.
Whatever is happening in Dylan's life is Kohbergers fault all of this is because of him NOT Dylan's .
Yeah that's rough. It's totally understandable. Lots of people in and out of there. If he said I just killed all your friends I'd think wow he has a drark sense of humor wtf?
Truth!
Lauren and Dr. John, I first want to say thank you for amazing content. Dr. John, I’m a therapist and I just wanted you to know that your discussion of OCD in this video may have helped me save a client’s life or at least allowed me to guide me in the right direction, which resulted in saving someone from suicide. I was having a really hard time treating a client with severe SI and very serious attempts when I listened to this. None of the typical interventions had worked, and I just had a feeling that this particular client’s presentation was different than what we typically see in suicidal clients. Somehow when you talked about OCD in this context, I realized that this person obsessed over SI with a specific method, would become increasingly more occupied with the ideas, and eventually attempt in a way that was more consistent with a compulsion than an attempt made by a depressed individual or someone with BPD, which is what this client had been diagnosed with by other providers. Since treating this individual for OCD both through psychotherapy and medication-management, they have not attempted or even become highly obsessed with the idea. So I just wanted to say thank you. You are making a difference in this world beyond what your specific goal is.
It may not be exactly the best time to say this, during a dark subject. I know you both are smart, talented, nice, gifted, and strong independently . However, you two are made substantially better together. I hope you are always happy and healthy in your marriage. ❤
Truer words have never been spoke ❤❤❤
@@Herewearenowentertainus Ditto
I disagree.
@@lorigreen4134 Lol Lori who hurt you 😂
@@lorigreen4134
Wow... you're sad.😒
Thank you for having empathy for the surviving victims and the families. I can’t even fathom what they’re going through.
Dr JOHN is not only brilliant but he has incredible empathy and a great sense of humor and cute laugh. WE LOVE and APPRECIATE YOU. God bless.
Thank you. Dr John makes so much sense and I appreciate how he speaks in a way us common folk can understand. Kaylees father has said that the room mate was the person who had passed out when the 911 call was made. I can only imagine the poor roommates trauma that they are and will be dealing with. Rather than speak of what we think they should have done, I for one will pray for them and all the families to be able to heal from this horrific act.
I do t understand how someone can pass out for 7 and a half hours. Maybe she passed out and then fell asleep .. may e she had been drinking too. The brain can do some weird stuff.
Whatever happened she should not be blamed …what a traumatic event …hopefully she will psychologically recover. Had she called or not …those poor kids’ fates were sealed.
@therealz 360z It wouldn't be PTSD ... PTSD happens way later ... but it could be shock that made her initially faint and then she just continued sleeping.
@@theeggtimertictic1136 she suffered from ptsd from something in her past, not from this, at least not that quickly. But she often had horrible night terrors, caused by the ptsd. This Is NOT verified. This is heresy from someone who apparently was there the following day. She had been drinking and had been asleep. She wasn't sure what of the things she was hearing n seeing, including seeing the killer, were real or night terrors. She didn't realize until the following day that it was real. I suspect(from dealing with ptsd myself) she may also take a medication to help her sleep, its pretty common with ptsd patients to have to take something. I would imagine if so, the combo of alcohol and sleep meds would of greatly added to her confusion. I do not judge her, don't mistake that. She's doing what college kids do.....just stating my opinion and theory. But I do NOT know if this info ( some of it anyway) is a true fact....) She did not call 911 at all ever as seems to be the assumption. She passed out after finding the roomates, and someone else on the scene called. That came from Kaylees dad. I think the other roommate called,, but she was hyperventilating so the operator couldn't understand her. I believe a 3rd person got on the phone n that's where the details of an unconscious person came in. The caller didn't know people were dead inside at that time. .... these are details that match n help make sense of some of the verified info that don't make sense so I believe them to be true. Hope that helps you get a clearer picture of how ptsd affected her
@@michelletruelove7783 Yes that makes total sense ... The poor girl. And now she has to go through a court case 😔
It’s crazy how he barely missed the Door Dash person.
When I first heard what she heard him say and then Xana, I felt completely chilled to the bone. How absolutely horrible.
Yes, congrats to all the law enforcement on this case.
They inspired him so idk 🤷🏻♂️
I believe Bryan underestimated the Moscow police force; he thought that being a rural aérea, they didn’t have the adequate training to catch him…
Thank you for giving law enforcement praise for their excellent work!
Ditto...and Kaylee's Dad didnt help their cause!!!
@@Whistler326 let's put you or someone you love in the same situation and see how it goes, ok?
@@IzzyMarielIts called Empathy and I have it in spades ( I empathize with the victims, and their love ones....As for his behavior ...if you condoning it ( your incredibly Niave maybe you should reconsider the stack of evidence against him....and yes ( I would spare my family the shame he has put on his family ....(TAKE a polygraph)...lets just see how much he is willing to do to go to prove his innocence ....NEighbours garbage....HELLO are you a completely insane!!!
@@Whistler326 anyone who shames victims like you is the one who is insane.
@@IzzyMariel how am I shaming the victims ie (parents....surely they know the evidence is extraordinarly more than circumstancial ...BUT its your opinion that my Opinion is INSANE....Kudos I hope you feel better!!! Warmest of regards ...
What a great presentation! Consise, accurate, factual and insightful. I am very impressed, think you are one of the best I've watched.
Well said the best l have watched to
So glad to see the channel growing and y’all finally getting recognition you deserve. Here’s to further reach and & much success!
I would love for Dr. John to provide his top 10 of recommended reading. I see you have a book club coming. Very excited for that! Thank you both so much. You are delightful.
Dr. John, thank you for acknowledging the great work of law enforcement.
Wading through so many really bad Utube channels, it's nice to find one such as yours that is coherant and thoughtful. Good communication skills
Dr. John your knowledge is incredible!
When a stranger covered in blood and carrying a huge knife walked into that girl's bedroom, saying I'm here to help you sounds like a cruel, sadistic taunt. They both knew he was going to kill her.
When I read DM’s account of BK walking past her, I didn’t read it as if she had been physically outside of her room and he walked by her. To me it sounded like he walked past her door and she was looking at him through her open door. Perhaps she hadn’t opened the door the whole way, but just had it slightly open like when you stand just inside a doorway peeking out. I assumed that’s how it went down and if her room was dark he just didn’t see her. But I could be wrong. Hopefully, we’ll get more details about this encounter.
Same!
I am beginning to wonder .If the 2 girls were the target....With Xnana being awake.She could have seen him and he killed her first and then her Boyfriend.After that he went upstairs and killed the girls.....the dog started Barking .at 417.I am thinking he ran past the room mates door with his focus to get out of here...Just maybe Xanax and her Boyfriend might of been saved if both were asleep.He was only there for the girls.Unfortunately Xanax saw him before before he went upstairs.Just thinking Maybe???Thoughts???
@avituss3569 I have been going over and over this in my head as well. I always assumed that what you described is how it went down as well: that he killed Xana and Ethan first because they were a threat, and then went after Kaylee and Madison. But now I’m questioning this sequence based on the timeline in the affidavit. So we now know that Xana was still okay at 4:12 a.m. because she was on Tik Tok. The surveillance video camera picks up what sounds like Xana’s final moments at approximately 4:17 a.m. It seems from DM’s account that BK walked by her/by her door coming from Xana’s room. This is because when you look at the layout, one side of DM’s room is located by the foot of the stairs going up to the third floor and the other side is the little hall leading to Xana’s room. DM said he walked towards her, then through the kitchen (her door faces the kitchen, and then out the sliding glass door. She doesn’t say she saw him coming down the stairs from the upper level. Also, if she was peeking at him from inside her doorway, her vantage point would have been towards Xana’s room, not the stairs. His car was then seen leaving the area at 4:20 a.m. So now I’m thinking that when DM heard what she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms at approximately 4:00 a.m. (probably some time after 4:04 when his car was seen) I think was she was hearing the attack on Kaylee and Madison. And the affidavit states that the person she heard say, “there is someone here” may have been Xana because she was still awake and on Tik Tik at 4:12. So now I’m thinking Xana may have heard something and looked out of her room and saw him coming down the stairs and then told Ethan, “there’s someone here.” The dark barking at 4:17 could have been because he heard the attack on Xana and Ethan. It’s plausible the dog heard it because the camera picked it up 50 yards away so perhaps he heard it, too. So if that’s the sequence of events, then he would have killed them for the same reason you stated, because she saw him. Unless, I’m wrong and she was a target as well.
Yes, agreed.
I agree for the most part, but since X & E we’re both found in X’s room, it makes me wonder why he would have followed them into her room to kill them when it would have been less risky to flee quickly than to take on two awake people. I wonder if he first became obsessed with either M or X from a visit to the Mad Greek. I’d be interested to hear if their manager or co-workers ever heard them complain of a creepy guy that hit on them (which he may have gotten the hint and felt rebuked). I don’t think he would have “fit in” at a party. These kids were very bubbly and outgoing. I think he would have caused major red flags if he showed up to a party. Steve Goncalves said that K & M’s wounds didn’t match. He didn’t compare to E & Z. We really don’t know, and even if K’s wounds more brutal than M’s, it doesn’t necessarily mean she was the target…she could have been more of a threat and needed more force to stop her.
This is an unbelievable interview. His awareness of him is impecable.
It’s all speculation based off a single document.
@@jenniferlynne3314 Looks like we have a BK fangirl here.
@@cookie_dough_hangover What the hell are you talking about? I despise this piece a shit of an excuse of a human that did these crimes.
@@cookingwithvince I am sorry for the confusion, my bad. I was actually referring to the person I mentioned in my comment, not you.
@@cookie_dough_hangover oh ok. Thanks for the clarification.
That was really awesome, Dr John, you are so intelligent and right on, and you and Lauren make a great team!
"He has to act to purge the thoughts." I agree that was his motivation.
I think that this is very possibly a motivation.
All those involved in the investigation of this crime did a fantastic jobs! Kudos to ALL!
Thanks for having compassion for the survivors. I’ve seemed some nasty comments towards them and it just makes me sick.
Absolutely wonderful ❤️
You 2 are by far The Best & most thorough. Dr. John took it to another level by showing empathy for Bryan. The How & Why of it all. I sincerely thank you for helping us understand human nature, the Good, Bad & Ugly.
I agree. Empathy is important to understanding a person like BK is important to have.😢
From Canada ...and I FEEL the same Lauren.....the BEST in the Business ( geniune) ....his insights are educational!!!
Thankyou for your fair and empathetic coverage of this case. The survivors are being bashed relentlessly across SM, it's good to see here that they are being spoken abt sensitively. 💕
I agree. I'm glad that they treat people with empathy!
Wow, thank you SO much John for mentioning the book that looks at the factors influencing how mass killers become mass killers. The more I hear about this Idaho case and about what this defendant was like years ago, the more I have been thinking about what can wider society learn from this case (I know that the trial hasn’t even started yet and the public has limited information despite the detail that LE has been willing to share so far in the affidavit)…but surely we can identify some early lessons? Your mention of the book and key findings from the book I found so interesting. Don’t get me wrong, not everyone who is bullied at a young age goes on to be a killer but bullying is clearly a common trait in the history of this specific type of criminal.
My biggest fear as a woman and as a mother of a young woman is - what more can women do to protect themselves? I am certainly not getting into victim blaming here - I abhor those who victim-blame. I am terrified however about not knowing how best to brush off/reject/dismiss a man’s unwanted advances and interest. If a woman does it dismissively, it feels like she as equally at risk of harm as if she does it nicely and IF the man has ill-intentions. What is a woman to do???? It’s scary.
I also to think there is wider societal discussion that needs to be had about sexual and non-sexual aggression towards women in general.
As a woman in my 5th decade who was stalked and followed home as a teenager by a much older man (thankfully he never got close enough to me to cause bodily harm), this case is very triggering for me and it never leaves you. I hope that, somehow, it results in either changes in law and/or societal changes that helps prevent harm to women.
Thank you for this episode - it’s why I come to your TH-cam channel - I know that I am guaranteed to find intelligent and highly illuminating content 🙏
Ironically this highly educated, legally savvy, long bullied, recovered addict and PhD student chose to commit his homicides under cover of night w a knife vs gun precisely as he fancied himself brilliant enough to avoid ballistics or to plan and pull off the perfect crime yet made such amateur mistakes. Totally agree he'd have inevitably reoffended if not apprehended.
Such excellent insight in your program. Thank you both for your diligent work and expertise.
Great live !!!!! Packed full of helpful info. Very well explained. I can see Ms. Lauren was having a hard time with some of the details. This breaks my heart for all 6 of his victims. DM and BF are victims also. I can't imagine living that night over and over. TY for this live.
Thank you so much for this WildCherry! It mean so much to us!
Thanks! So enjoy both of you. Dr. John, I appreciate your analogies and assessments of this suspect. Very insightful.🙏
this mean so much to us, thank you!
always appreciate the focus on how trauma and shame play into this
I agree. People like BK don't just go out and kill people without having experienced trauma from an early age.
Hopefully Dostoyevsky’s brilliant psychological writing & literature finds a new generation of fans.
LOL. Today's young generation tap out at tweets & social-media comments.
@@alisonm.4892 I know, right🤦🏻♂️-they’d need two bottles of Ritalin to get thru the 1st chapter🤣
@@_Michael_Scott Ha! And would need a dictionary for every 5th word ... and just couldn't be bothered. Their "literary" skills amount to acronyms and incorrect simple English (which they don't even recognize, i.e. "there" instead of "their," "your" instead of "you're" ad infinitum). "Idiocracy" -- top 5 best films of all time!
True, he's one of the best. The sad thing is that due to the rise of the USSR, many brilliant Russian composers and writers, eg. Tolstoy, Sholzhenitsyn, etc. aren't read or even taught anymore. And yet, they have some of the most penetrating understanding, outside of maybe Kipling ( my personal favorite) that can be found. They deserve a new audience. Especially. Tolstoy.
I Agree with last comments of Dr.John on live show … Bullying by Students & Teachers is Definitely A Factor..
I feed very strongly that there should be a ZERO TOLERANCE BULLYING POLICY in school!!!
“Bullying” is so hard to define, and it is certainly too hard for any school to quash the bully when behavior can have defenses as well. It’s a big deal to kick a kid out of school, and it is also hard to “prove” bullying unless there is electronic or physical evidence. The only bullying I’ve seen with zero tolerance is anything to do with race. Absolutely nothing else no matter how bad it is. My son and our family was viciously attacked by high school football players from another school. I put together a 15 page pdf of screenshots and evidence of names and a timeline and emailed it to the other school. We may never know what punishment they got, but everything was taken down, including the posts from a bogus account. I do know no one was kicked out of school. We need to do something about bullying, but I don’t know what the best way to stop it.
I think more education and discussions at the school about the topic should be permanent in school programs so All students have taken good solid advice and been in regular discussions about the issue
The answer is homeschooling.
Thank you guys for your intelligent psychoanalysis of the forensics in this case. Lauren you look like a princess🙏🏽✨💖✨
I agree, I think LE did a fantastic job. It’s none of our business what the evidence is or who they suspect until arrest and trial.
This is so interesting. You guys did a great analysis of this case.
Thank you both for your high class work.
Iv been waiting patiently, for this update. Not really iv been eager to hear Dr John's opinion..
Dr John you look like you're feeling much better , I'm so glad
Excellent show tonight! You two are the best.
Dr.John is excellent and very interesting. I have learned alot in this video .
I just want to make sure y’all know - the affidavit never said that he (Bryan) saw her (D) the affidavit stated that she looked out her door and saw him.
Of course, much has been redacted so we don’t know exactly what happened.
Thank you both for all you do and thank you to all of the moderators, we appreciate all you do.
Only a pic was redacted nothing else.
@@maryrnbsn5114 hmmm, I thought there was more. Oh well, point is they are going to have a lot more info that they have not revealed.
@@maryrnbsn5114 uh have you read the whole affidavit? There was a lot redacted.
@@NEnigma777 thank you, I suppose I was worried about getting into an argument with someone online, which I have no time for - I agree with you 100%.
I just wanted to point out truth!
Thanks again!
I believe the availability of crime & horror is a contributing factor to the increased violence in our society.
My thought on what he said about "helping her," was that he had already injured her horribly and he was saying that because he planned ahead to kill her and he was "ending her suffering." He wasn't helping her, he was satiating his killing hunger. Either way, he is a horribly evil monster. Totally evil beyond words. Am so sorry for all that these poor students went through. May they rest in peace and am praying the two survivors get the help they need to heal and go on to have wonderful lives.
@tchili1 I thought the same thing! I agree with everything you said.
My mind could not even imagine at first that it was the *killer* saying "I will help you"! I hoped it would be Ethan. It is just too sick and sad to contemplate. But hearing you all discuss it so matter of factly I can't 'unsee' that scenario now. Poor, poor Xana😭😱
I agree this is a possibility and if you think about it, he's asserting his power to decide whether his victim as to whether they live or die.
It is so disturbing to think the killer could have killed Ethan, with Xana crying says to her”It’s okay, I will help you.” before killing her. This guy deserves the worst possible punishment. This is so upsetting that he ambushes innocent people in their bedrooms.
Is it possible that Ethan was the one who said, “I will help you”? The affidavit doesn’t say specifically that BK was the one who said it.
It doesn't state that it was the killer. It's quite possible that it was Ethan (and that would make sense.)
@kerem9736 we all have struggles
- every single day feels like a struggle to most people- hurting and over powering innocent vulnerable people is not the answer, no matter how many times a person feels hurt in life.
@kerem9736 Just to bring attention to the fact that my original comment had nothing to do with Brian, so your projection towards me should be re-examined
@@snailmailbox7298 and that could not be proven.
Absolutely brilliant. Love this channel
Same
Lauren: 😍😍😍 Dr. John: you’re an amazing intellectual! ❤And you mentioned my favorite book in hs again: Crime and Punishment. 😊
I'm sorry I missed the live feed! I have a theory about what may have triggered BK's alleged breakdown:
I'm sure that many of us can identify with at least a low-grade sense of resentment toward frat bros and sorority sisters. In many ways, Greek life is an extension of the social hierarchy and popularity contests that often define a person's experience of high school -- presumably, a culture that tormented BK.
BK consistently struggles to connect with his peers and he carries rejection wounds into higher ed, along with the goal of using the education to outwit violent inclinations he is struggling to control. It works well for awhile. With a lot of hard work, BK earns his masters degree, with accolades. His (pretty, young, female, online) professor recognizes that he is "brilliant," and he receives recommendations from both her and THE Dr. Kathleen Ramsland. He has the resounding approval of two important women and he's finally moving up in the world!
He brings his new credentials and all that brilliance with him to WSU. After considerable academic success, he believes he now has some of that sweet social capitol that always eluded him. But nothing goes the way he envisions. He immediately alienates himself from his colleagues with his approach to class discussions. He's torn from the relative safety of his online coursework, playing in the academic big leagues, and serving as T.A. for undergraduate seminar classes comprised of 150 + students who seem to dislike him immediately. He grades too hard and struggles to communicate with the class. This ultimately culminates in a heated scene in which the professor calls on BK to stand up in front the entire auditorium class of coeds so the students can "go at him." (Words of WSU student Hayden Stinchfield).
Now he loses all hope. His criminal justice career was supposed to do two critical things: bring him respect and give him mastery over his own mind. It has does neither. To the contrary, he finds himself in a perfect storm of stressors and he has run out of ideas. He gives up the inner fight and takes action. I think he outwardly demonstrates his surrender to his criminal thinking when he starts "rubber stamping" student papers. He no longer has faith in the subject of criminology and he has lost interest/passion for the curriculum.
@meld888 Great insight!
Wildly speculative. Some of you should really start writing fiction.
Fabulous Summary , like throwing his hands in the air and addmiting to himself , What more can I do ? And then ' I will show them ' and sort of ' what do you think of me now ? That's my plain English speak on him , I knew a very dangerous Man who used to unleash horror and wreck property and anyone in his proximity as a way of Rubber Stamping his rage and then boast about his deeds saying , that sorted ye out. you think I am a monster, now you know what I am capable of .
@@jenniferlynne3314 No need to be rude. It's just a theory. Chill
@@jenniferlynne3314 We know the facts of this though - there was the interview with his student who confirmed he graded too hard etc etc
I just want to say I love you both So much as a couple, as professionals and I really enjoy your channel. I am a new listener-subscriber and I really enjoy your relationship and professionalism. My new favourite channel ❤️
Re: the statement “I’m going to help you”, I wonder if he killed Ethan close to the door/hall, Xana saw and was in grief/fear, and his comment was almost like “I’m going to take away your pain.”
At 51:00 you ask if he studied these killers... he seems to be leaving breadcrumbs relating to other killers such as upon being arrested, he asked the same question as John Wayne Gary. Also he left the house leaving a woman alive who saw him as did Ted Bundy. He plays with numbers & dates etc.
I've been thinking a lot about the bullying BK experienced as a kid that turned an otherwise good-looking, intelligent young man into a 'monster'. I'd like to know what Dr John thinks families, communities and schools can do to prevent the kind of bullying that is turning young people into killers?
Thanks!
Thank you so much for this. It is so appreciated!
Sounds like a horror movie. What a nightmare. I hope those poor roommates have all the support they need.
1:05:10 I got you Dr Jon! He’s thinking, “that went poorly!” You are all welcome. 😂 I’m here for you.😂
Thank you so much for this, I thought it was a good question about why is it that it is usually males that become serial killer instead of female. I find myself making comparison between the perp and me, both with OCD (his sounds pretty severe as well), into criminology and learning about serial killers, severely bullied for a long time, probably not the most stable home and both having intrusive thoughts yet he acted on his compulsion on violence while I've always firmly preferred to analyze those thoughts gotten more depressed/ anxious over those type of compulsive thoughts. I think its even more terrifying since he and I are the same age.
Thank the gods above for whatever guardian angel protected the surviving roommates and may these 4 victims rest in peace.
Reall enjoyed your husband's knowledge and input on the case.
New to listening to your channel. Great job Dr John your explaining the psychology of behavior is great .
Dr. Matthias, I unfortunately am an opiate addict, clean for 3 years. Like many assists, I believe the suspect used because of just phenomenally low self esteem. Most addicts endure severe childhood trauma. No excuse making for this pos (alleged), but just a bit of a backstory as to why people become what they do. He was bullied because of his weight. Hence the low self esteem. Keep up the great work.
I find it highly disturbing that people have anything to say about the poor girl that was there in probably didn't even know what she was looking at but she felt the terror. She did nothing wrong, nothing. Until one of us is in that situation where a blood-covered mask murderer walks towards us, we don't get to judge
I do also! It never crossed my mind she had any idea what was happening! She froze in fear it was dark and she thought he was coming for her. When she realized he was leaving she thought nothing was happening. She locked her door in case more people came back & went to bed. Imo
Wondering why she did not call 911 and waited until almost noon before doing so is a fair question. It is also something she will be asked in depositions and in court. Everyone has to face their action or inaction.
I am so glad someone is saying it. It’s disgusting to be honest. Can you imagine what the two survivors are going to have to endure for a long time to come. It’s so heartbreaking 💔 I’m in the UK but I’m a mum to three young adults and I have cried non stop for this whole terrible situation ❤
Stop making excuses for her, she didn't call 911 for 8 hours, and called her friends before she even called 911.
@@DJ-hf1zo
AGREE100%
With Dylan, we don’t have her full statement, so she could have heard a lot more than is documented in the PCA. She could have heard everything, screams, crying, the dog barking, but tried to brush it off as her friends messing about or being drunk, or as her mind playing tricks on her in the middle of the night or that she was just being over dramatic. Maybe it wasn’t until the third time she looked out of her bedroom door and saw an unknown masked man walking towards her, that she put all the pieces together and realised
something terrible had happened and that’s why she froze when she saw him.
The PCA states: ‘The male walked past D.M. as she stood in a "frozen shock phase." The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in her room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene’.
So Dylan never saw him leave. For all she knew he was still in that house all night.
If she didn’t know he’d left the house, she could have been hiding, all night, terrified for her life. Thinking that any sound or movement she makes would alert him and he would come after her and kill her. In that situation do you call police and risk him hearing you and killing you too? or do your survival instincts kick in and make you hide and keep as quiet as possible - no one knows until they’re in that situation. She could have been hiding like that until the other roommate found her in the morning and told her it was safe to come out.
In the morning both roommates might have found the bodies of their friends, brutally murdered, and both gone into a state of shock, panic, confusion and terror. Not able to think straight, not able to speak clearly or verbalise what has happened they contact their friends to come over and help them. We don’t know what they said in those calls or texts to their friends the next day. They could have just been sobbing on the phone.
Everyone knows that we should call emergency services in a situation like that, but until we’ve experienced we don’t know how clearly we’d be thinking or what we would do.
Hi! I am literally just finding and binging all the good stuff! And yah, it’s late, but I wonder why Moscow? Why does this not happen in Pullman? Maybe trigger was in Pullman. And to “release” he goes hunting for victims in Moscow, thinking a small-town police crew will not be smart enough to figure it out! Just speculating but it does make me wonder why Moscow!
I can imagine that not getting the internship and then being dismissed from his tutoring job were the reasons BK believed his law enforcement/criminology career may be over (how would he pay to continue his PhD program?) and along with the fact that he was facing disciplinary action because he treated female students differently (turned into “it’s the women’s fault”) would probably ignite the aggression to a degree that he felt the need to act.
Seemingly, one of his research projects was to try to find out what murderers were feeling when they committed their crimes. Then he found out for himself. It may have liberated him somehow due to the reports of his being more socially involved after the crimes.
He’s got creepy eyes.
I love your style today Lauren. You look amazing!!!
49:07 thank you so much. You guys are amazing
You two make an incredible team! I had no idea you were husband & wife, but I can why you’re marriage works…b/c you work so well together.
👏 Another very informative live by the dynamic duo!! The look on Lauren's face when Dr.John said we don't vet our sources 🤣 The journalist in her ears perked right up like uh what did I just hear?! Of course she vets her sources! It was apart of her job.
I hope a lot of people see this like parents to teach their kids what the consequences of bullying.
The big problem is you can tell little kids not to bully but when everyone in the main stream political sector bullies to get votes… And it’s normalized to sit behind a screen and bully in the comment section…when big bullies like Trump become pples hero…good luck. Kids feel the hypocrisy. They know it’s a do what I say not what I do situation and so until pple in the entertainment & political spheres stop normalizing and encouraging bullying, we will continue to have unmerciful bullying & severe mental anguish showing up in pple
Actions speak louder than words. Parents bully kids around all the time, they are the teachers...
Affidavit isn’t the full crime report so looking forward to understanding more.
Thank you both. Thank you Dr John 😊
WOW, Lauren, you look BEAUTIFUL! Great colors on you! Is it Date night? :) Ill go watch your video now.
Doesn’t she look amazing?
@@Nadine_IBRfarms Right?? I mean she always looks so pretty, but GLAM-WOW! Lucky Dr. Babe. lol
29:12 Bravo. That is classy. I've been wondering that from day 1, but if there is one thing this case has taught me, why speculate?
It will come out eventually. I hope the TC people don't go after them.
Yeah I agree! It’s sad to see wild conspiracies popping up again
Exactly.
Thank you very much for your insights. Great episode. I really appreciate the way you’re not sensationalize this case, but explain and treat it with respect.
This case is heart wrenching, 4 victims!
Using my husband's channel cause it's open ***
I was stalked as an adult vocational teacher. A young Asian student, mid 20s, graduated and then kept showing up. He'd either be in the library next to my classroom, staring at me through the window. He started standing in my parking spot. I'd pull in and park, just to see his face in my driver's window. It was terrifying and the school couldn't stop him. I finally went to the Director of Education, and a few of the other very senior male teachers, and threw myself at their mercy. I'm ashamed ( a little) to say that they surrounded him, threatened him, and told him what would happen if he was seen there again, and that stopped it. But it was terrifying. It went on for months and months.
Kaylee was only visiting that night and so was Ethan. So I feel Xana and Maddie were the targets on different floors.. and the other two got in his way.
Edit: Or if he was stalking them that night ie: the grub truck... and Kaylee was the target... BK could of picked that night to finally attack.
Impossible and here's why. Timeline has (1) K & M at food truck at 1:30 am. - to approx. 1:56, when they rode home; all resident girls home by 2 a.m. (2) 2:47 a.m.: Kohberger's phone leaves his residence and travels south through Pullman -- then stops “reporting to the network," investigators say is consistent with phone being turned off. (3) Timeline eliminates possibility of him stalking at food truck. You're welcome.
You do know that Kaylee lived there right?
How do we know Bryan said "I'm going to help you" and not Ethan?
We dont
Love you guys!! Love that you are focusing on facts!!
I love you both ! Favorite channel
I’d be curious to know why the Pulman police department didn’t hire him… did they notice something off about him.,,
Dr. John do you think something else had to happen in his childhood like something closer to home as in in the family? It seems to me like he was desperate to belong but also struggled to be loved. Like he did all of these things to better himself but couldn’t find love. I don’t think he knows what love is, which is why he was so confused about how to get it. But he was obviously desperate for it. So imo, those kinds of things start within a family dynamic. He may have had people along the way who cared for him but since he couldn’t recognize it he just kept trying to improve himself to make himself lovable because something made him think he wasn’t. And I believe that started somewhere within the family dynamic when he was young.
ETA: Imo children who grow up in homes with these kinds of issues are more likely to be and easier to be bullied.
How come they haven’t added stalking charges yet? Do you think they’re going to add them or will it be too difficult to prove? So sad and sick, I feel so bad for the 4 families plus the surviving roommates. I’d be curious to know more about his family and their psychology.
You never tell someone how smart you are, let them tell you.
I love your empathy dr.john
Question for Dr. John: Many of us were bullied as children and possibly even as adults, yet we don’t choose to murder people (allegedly, he is innocent until proven guilty)……yet my question still stands existentially. Thanks for your wonderful channel! I always know I will get unbiased, thoughtful truth on your channel!!❤
I was bullied as a child but I don’t remember people throwing things at me. That seems pretty radical to me. ?
I'd like to hear from the bullies. We never hear what they feel/think In these situations!
@Kelbel Poor kid I cannot believe no one helped him.
@@musicbrazilian7065 I have never heard of a kid being bullied so bad people were throwing bottles at him? Where were the teachers? And I’m not making excuses for him but I don’t get how that was allowed to happen.
@Kelbel I completely agree how come no one helped him, poor kid. I was bulied as a child it was 😖 awful and terrifying.
He was also graduating and would have to start interviewing for everything and paying any loans.
I’m in the replay crew!
John said something interesting about BCK realizing he wasn’t the smartest in the room.
I have a question about graduate school. From my experience in a PhD program, the process tends to break students down, way down .
You come into the program the best of the best, and very quickly get into situations trying to prove yourself as some sort of expert in a field you’re still a novice in. The competition among students, from my experience, is rough. It often felt like bullying to me.
Plus moving away from home at the same time-new home, new school, new city, etc.
He likely moved to Pullman at the beginning of August. TAs usually arrive early for training. The first day of classes was 8/22. BCK was already stalking the house 8/21.
How did this begin so quickly?
Replay crew, too… again. ☹️. 😉
@@Somebody33390 Maybe I’m assuming he did? He graduated with his master’s from DeSales June 2022. It makes logical sense fall 2022 would be his first semester.
How soon in a PhD program do the students start to formulate a topic for their research project?
@@exeterline1930 Are you asking me? If so, I’d say it depends. Sometimes right away. Students usually come into programs with professors they want to study under. Some students come into their program with a topic already. Sometimes PhD work is an extension of master’s thesis work. Sometimes it comes later after a couple of semesters of courses. I had an interest in my field, but didn’t have my project decided on until second year, and it was totally different work from what I did in my master’s thesis.
@@TheAvocadoProfessor Yes, I was asking you. Thank you very much for giving such a great, thorough explanation.
I wondered if he murdered to use that experience to inform his research in a deep background kind of way. It's just as criminal as murdering for other reasons, but nonetheless could be part of the reason.
When people question why he murdered so soon after he started his PhD program believing the research doesn't come until the end of the program, I had suspicions that the research topic was in mind from day 1 of the program. Your answer addressed that.
Thanks again.
He is vegan, The first vegetarian restaurant that pops up in Google for Moscow is the place where Kylee and Xena worked. Likely that he first saw them there.
It isn't a vegan restaurant, it just has vegan options.
It will be so interesting to find out why he chose these ladies or this house.
Btw I like being called a hidden gem! ❤❤
To correct timeline the “stalking was 12 times since August”.
In regards to why the surviving roommates waited 7 hours before calling 911. In my opinion the roommate DM likely never knew what had happened until the time someone called possibly the other roommate who got up before DM finding Xana on the floor outside her bedroom or near the bathroom. I believe DM just locked herself in her room staying quiet until hearing her other roommate.
I think DM was truly freaked out by the person but was half asleep and likely under the influence. She shut her door and locked it and fell asleep when everything was quiet for sometime. She probably talked herself out of the thought it was an intruder, and probably convinced herself she was being paranoid. It wasn’t until the next day with the revelation of her roommates being dead did she realize that indeed it was an intruder who murdered her friends. She was probably in complete shock at that point and was barely able to speak or even move. She was paralyzed in shock and fear and regret for not calling 911. Bless her heart…I’m sure she is so traumatized (now knowing) and can probably barely function. I’m sure police and her family were very fearful that she would be found and killed if the killer knew she saw him and was still a threat to his being caught.
@@teraallan Makes the most sense, She probably knew nothing about it or obviously hoped it was just a friend etc. Many times roommates don't know who is know who and what is going on. STILL, it seems like she would hear something of a struggle or screams??
Let's just jump to suspicions, Was she drunk or high??
Weed is legal in Washington, only minutes away...
@@NLANDXP We don’t know if she heard screams or not. If when it all comes out in trial that she did hear screams, it is even more strange that she didn’t call 911 after seeing the intruder. However, I’m just tired of everyone villionizing everyone surrounding these girls. I was one of them! After watching a TH-cam video, I told my husband (who thinks I must be out of my mine to get into this murder so much) that Jack S was indeed the one…a few days later…it was Jack D and then a few days later I was convinced it was Inan. I reflect on myself and how terrible it was to make this into a soap opera murder mystery while these people’s lives were being RUINED on the internet. I’m mad at myself for judging with so few facts! Once the police announced a suspect that was on no one’s radar, I realized that not only did they tell us only a few vague details, but the details (ie the roommates were asleep on the first floor and didn’t hear anything) were actually false in order to protect the witnesses! I’ve decided for myself that I cannot judge anyone in a negative light until I hear all the true facts (except for BK 😝)!!!! I don’t want anyone else’s life to be ruined by snap judgements.
@@NLANDXP I just talked to my husband who is a trial lawyer. After he told me how ridiculous it is for all of us to focus in on this one event when there are crazy murders every day (blah blah blah). This is what he said about DM. “She is toast.” The defense lawyer will cross examine her to completely discredit her testimony to the point the jury will agree that NO REASONABLE person would see that intruder and close the door and go to sleep. If she was drunk and stoned out of her mind…maybe. However, if that’s the case then we surely can’t rely on her recall of what she heard and says she saw. He said that if he was the defense lawyer, he would also use this to turn the table and point the finger AT HER being the murderer or being involved in the murders. Reasonable doubt for BK. Wow. The mind of a creative trial lawyer…
@@teraallan Lol, let's wait for the DNA tests on his famous Hyundai Elantra. It may yield very incriminating DNA from all victims. No wonder he was cleaning it "within an inch" before he was arrested. Casting DM as the killer will look ridiculous when all the evidence against BK is revealed. (still presumed innocent..)
Thank you for your insight into this horrific crime. I love the way you use your insight and knowledge into trying to understand the perpetrator, honor the victims and survivors and not being sensational to get likes and clicks.
It's important to understand the crime and crimina,as well as, the family dynamicsl so that we can recognize and perhaps stop the next heinous crime. Mental Health should be as important as physical health in this country.
By the way I love the dynamic duo!!! 💙💜🙏🏼
You don’t need to sensationalize for clicks when you know your insight & content are pure fire! Bravo to this duo! Been a follower of the pod going back to the beginning. I love watching your following grow
I am so sick of everyone being so hard on DM. None of us have ANY clue what she was feeling in that moment or what she was going through. We have become such a judgemental society without ever realizing we all are affected by things differently. If you have never been in that situation, then you have no business judging DM.
I feel/think much much more is going to come to light. My questions are: Does he recognize other peoples boundaries in general? Single mindedly self-involved in conversation and oblivious to others thoughts? Does he enjoy digging into others personal details and ask questions of strangers that are unnervingly too familiar? Do people sense and feel put off by him as sense he is sizing them up and getting info to store away like a future weapon cache and/or competively one up? Is he compelled to compare himself competitively with others all of the time? Impulsive passive hatefulness brewing under a facade of smiles and inclusive overtures? **All I REALLY want to know is how to recognize a sociopath/psychopath? How to NOT be a target/victim? How to protect others from same?
Pay attention to how you feel in their presence when you first meet hem. If you feel exposed, like you're being sized up, they hold eye contact a little too long, if they decide you are a good target, they will gush over you, tell you everything you want to hear, they will soon become everything you ever wanted. When they get you mesmerized, they'll start doing little things that make you doubt your own sanity. You'll find yourself apologizing for things you didn't do. It's a gradual thing (boiled frog) and one day you realize the dream has turned into a nightmare.
I think it is downright odd that he was stalking them and they were likely often up past the wee hours after being out and Door Dash was ordered and he comes in right at or just after that time. But then all else he did was stupid without covering his tracks so I guess maybe not. Hurts to know one or some were up and still didn't manage to get away from this creep before four were killed. I just can't quite wrap my mind around that except I guess he was quiet and their guard was down probably.
I have nothing to contribute to the conversation but felt compelled to tell you Lauren that your 💄 💋 is absolutely perfect for your skin tone and is beautiful tonight. You're always super pretty, but that lipstick is 🔥🔥🔥.
I survived a serial killer abduction in 1987, and of everything I went through, during that twelve-hour ordeal and fight for my life, the thing that traumatized me the most was the revelation he had been stalking me for four months and knew everything about me; yet I had no memory of seeing or speaking to him even once.
He had zero interest in a relationship with me. His only goal was to kill me, and he had fantasized about it obsessively until the moment he knew it was time to do it. His hunger around the act of killing me was like watching a starving dog with a huge steak. Point being: he had never attempted any connection or interaction with me. He hungered only to kill me and savor every minute of doing exactly that.
I'd like to hear part 2 please. Has to one you lived.
@@jojo683 Ah, my dear, it was 36 years ago. I was a young, innocent girl, and I was changed to my core forever. Nothing was ever again the same, and I had severe PTSD for twenty years. Miraculously though, I’ve been free from it all - for the most part - since 2009, and I don’t want to go back. It would only bring it all back. I mention it here though, to say these girl’s didn’t have to interact with, or reject this guy at all. They could have just wandered into his crosshairs like I unknowingly did all those years ago. There’s so many possibilities.
Sending love and healing xxx
@@sanddollar252 Yes and I'm sorry I ask. Really I should've stopped myself to think how that must of made you feel. You shared quite a lot and the message is a good one! You could write a book because I was hanging on every word and I'm cheap but I'd have paid good money to hear the rest! So glad you're doing well now. It's so true crazy doesn't ever have a reason!
@@jojo683 You’re precious, and you’ve done nothing wrong. Were the rolls reversed I might have asked you the same thing. I don’t tell my story. In fact, that may be the first time I ever put those words in print. It seemed appropriate though.
What creeped me out was the bar banning his coming in because of his asking women right out of the gate "where do you live".Great job law enforcement