My mother was mentally ill. She abused me all the way up to 17 years old. When I stood up to her and said if you put your hands on me again I would call the police on her. My mother tried to murder me 3 times in my life. I ran out of fear, life or flight. I had to do something or I was going to die , either by her hand or my own. I was very fragile by that point. I made a choice to make my way to my own life. It has been a lifetime of work. Today I can sleep with a sense of safety. I did not murder my mother.
Bless you ♥️And I am sure you didn’t get the Hollywood treat and have money thrown at you. Gypsy needs mental heath treatment and should go away and live a quiet life, not become a star.
Wonderful, finding a way to build your life, establish boundaries with your mother and caring your mental health are commendable. I wish you the best life going forward!
Being abused doesn't give anyone the right to abuse someone else, ruin their life, then act like you're their victim too. If she would have killed her mom, and didn't drag an autistic, learning disabled person in to do her bidding... I could understand that and it would have probably been considered justified homicide with no time in jail... But why do that when you can put the blame on someone else, wipe your hands of it, and absolve yourself of all the sin? Live your best life.
I believe she won’t advocate for his release because by admitting that she manipulated him will ruin the delusion she continues to live under - I’m a good little abused girl and it was the only way to escape my abuser - by admitting she is a cold hearted killer is not how she wants to be viewed by the public and media
@@JoanneFord-o2s that’s exactly why she won’t advocate for Nick and goes as far as to defame him and her mother. To make herself look better and less responsible.
Which shows how small she still is in all of this. She is not taking the responsibility for anything that happened. She is the perfect victim and forever child.@@StraightOutOfContextWithBarbie
I feel like I am attending a PhD level class discussion on this case (but made understandable to non PhD students). Things in life are rarely black and white, just varying shades of gray. Thank you for this - fascinating ❤
My problem is I saw her one way. As a victim. Until she got out, showed no sympathy at all for Nicholas, claimed to not identify as a murder. But then tells us she unloaded what she thought was a real gun into her mom after the runaway thing. She then learned it was a bb gun. My thoughts are she would have been the only murder if the gun she thought was real had been.
@@TheCandiceWangI think it is in her documentary. Gypsy said “She grabbed the gun, she says, and threatened her mother with it. “And before I knew it, I pulled the trigger as many times as I could.” She shot at her 10 times. Only when she saw that her mother’s wounds were superficial did she realize it was a BB gun and not a deadly handgun.”
Yes. Watching Nick's confession video here on TH-cam and hearing him describe Gipsy's behaviour sealed my uneasy feelings. He talked about waiting outside of the bathroom while Gypsy shaves her private parts after the crime. How perverted is that? She literally bribed him with a promise of s3x.
I am literally incapable of watching or listening to anything more than once… yet here I am, one week later listening again 😂 I NEED more… this case is fascinating and complex, Dr John really is the best of the best
I was physically abused as a child. Acting in the moment hurting back would have been self defense. Planning to have my abuser being killed is murder. The fact that DeeDee is not a sympathetic victim makes the story seem difficult, but it’s not.
Yes - I never hit back - when my brother did he was given up to system- was anger and ugly feelings there - yes for many many decades- never considered murder
I fully agree. My siblings and I were also abused, certainly not to the degree GR was, but abused nonetheless. At no point did murder ever enter into the equation. Nor would I feel like having been abused would've justified murder.
@41Pucky Thank you. I was also a victim of my mother’s physical, emotional, and medical abuse (repeated and unnecessary surgeries and procedures, including an invasive gynecological exam at only 7 or 8 years old, and a rhinoplasty at age 11 performed for an alleged breathing problem I did not have). The beatings, threats, and emotional denigration were horrific, and I was perpetually afraid for my life. But while I may have fantasized about my mother’s death (which would have brought about my freedom), it never once occurred to me that I should or could be the cause. There is nothing my mother could ever do that would make me capable of her level of behavior, much less of murder. What alarms me about Gypsy Rose is the inauthenticity, attention seeking, and lack of insight, humility, or empathy for her codefendant that I see. She is no doubt a victim, just as her mother likely was (and just as my own was). But victimhood is not a one-dimensional artifact; humans are infinitely complex.
@@ihaveseensuchthings I'd say a factor in GR deciding to premediate murder and all the acting, guilt-shifting and changing of stories seems to paint her as definitely having some of the dark-triad personality traits. Now, narcassist, sociopath or whatever title you wanna try to assign that is up for debate. She certainly shows signs of low-empathy, compulsive lying and seemed to be overjoyed after the murder to the point of bragging. As we saw with the Facebook posts and the videos she make with Nick just after. Most people don't fall on this spectrum. Even if you do have idealization of murdering your abuser, few would act on such impulses. GR garnering infamy and tons of attention is probably the worst possible thing for her at this moment, if she was truly wishing to seek reform. Right now, I don't think that's the case and it may not ever be her desire to truly grow and process it through therapy. GR is chasing the highs of fame, attention and whatever thrill-seeking she can grab onto.
Thank you so much for this in depth analysis. I’ve always thought something was off and it was so evident for me upon her release and the manner she’s conducting herself. The fact she has no sympathy for Nick, whom she manipulated to commit the crime, thinking she can fool us all, demonstrates to me GR will do anything to remove anyone in her way to benefit her. I do think she learned from her mother how to play the victim part to get her things and now the limelight. Dr. John thank you for breaking this down for us.
Lauren! Thank you for saying what you said at the end! Many killers and criminals have very difficult and abusive backstories! We still hold them accountable for their actions. Gypsy Rose is no different! I am so tired of people giving her a hall pass. She killed her Mom, Period.
Her mom was killing her slowly, and I personally think that if DeDe had lived, I don’t believe gypsy would be alive today, De De should have been in prison a long time before what happened to her, She was one of the worst child abusers ever known about ,
I really appreciate your bravery and sticking to your analysis even in the face of backlash. Gypsy was a victim and she became the victimizer. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth the way she is trying to put all the blame on Nick after begging him to do it. He did everything she told him to do. I think she targeted him due to his mental illness, she knew she could manipulate him to do her bidding.
Yep she is very smart and cunning. She picked someone she knew she could easily manipulate and worked on him for years to talk him into doing her bidding. I don't think she had any feelings for him at all, he was a pawn to her and collateral damage. She played the baby role pretending to be childlike and innocent, but even Nick in his interview said she had multiple personalities she would take on including her evil persona. Nick was completely honest in his interrogation and I have no reason to believe he lied about anything including the things he said about Gypsy. In fact he probably held back information trying to paint her in a better light because he was wanting to protect her. Nick is the one I feel bad for and I hope he gets a reduced sentence. Not once was abuse mentioned in either of the interrogations of either of them. He said multiple times he only stabbed her 4 times and there were 13 stab wounds. I believe the remaining wounds were from the hand of Gypsy herself. He also said her fingerprints would be on the knife because she handed it to him, bit I think that was a story they came up with to explain her prints being on the knife. I'm so sick of people painting her out to be a victim. Yes she dealt with some psychological abuse, but I think she was in on it and went along with it to get all the free trios and money they were getting due to her supposed illness. She was heavily rewarded for putting on the act of the poor defenseless sick child, yet she contradicts what supposedly happens over and over again and has been caught in so many lies its sickening. When she was asked what she would say to Nick this psychological literally had the nerve to say she wishes him well on his journey!?!?!? That statement alone and the way she threw him under the bus took away and compassion I had for her. She is not what she seems to be, she is. A wolf in sheep's clothing and she basically got away with murder.
I've worked with children who were victims of fabricated illness (what we call factitious disorder in the UK). It's interesting (and intensely) frustrating to see just how deeply they are invested in the lie that they are sick. Even after years of no contact with the parents, children/teens maintain the lie. One teen I worked with insisted on keeping a feeding tube and pursuing surgery for a feeding port despite no medical need. This child would consume "normal" foods at times and was aware they could eat normally. They wanted the focus of staff, that staff at school and elsewhere needed treatment, that they would have the attention of an adult to sit with them for the hours of feeding through the tube. It was desperately sad. I can see how Gypsy would be both a victim and being complicit. The relationship between a parent and child is a dance, even with a mum like DeeDee.
WOW, that is shockingly sad. My son was born with esophageal atresia, a 5 vertebrae gap. We treated him as a nomal baby, and toddler and taught him to eat until his reconstructive surgery at 18 months. We were so happy to see the g-tube go. Having had a special needs child, I am particularly horrified by a parent doing anything to hurt their child in this way. A real parent would trade place with their child in a hearbeat to bear the pain.
I do love how you use literature, myth, fairytales etc to create space around the fixation that folks seem to group around during these uncertain times. Brilliant.
Thank you for your insight. I appreciate the fair objective viewpoint that someone who is the victim of horrible abuse does not excuse them from accountability of their premeditated intentions and involvement in a crime where their life is not consciously viewed as being in imminent danger otherwise. Dr. John is not *judging* her, he's just calling a spade a spade and letting society take that as they will. I think people are upset because they feel this implies she is a bad person and that's not necessarily what he's saying. He's just saying it doesn't make sense that she doesn't see herself as a murderer and distances herself from culpability based on logic and the circumstances
I totally agree with what you said about Dr. John. I totally agree how he is explaing what he sees in Gypsy Rose’s personality. Like you said, he is calling a spade a space. I know people a lot of people don’t see that like we do.
Brilliant analysis, just brilliant. As one with a lengthy medical/scientific education & professional background (along with my 30+ yrs true crime obsession) I LOVE the approach taken by HTC! So unique; definitely stands apart and far above any other, bar none. Beautifully presented, Dr. John & Lauren!
Your podcast is about the Why. We may never know but I’d wager that Dr John’s analysis is spot on. My eyes are wide open. Lots of people want to hear only half of her story, the abuse. The murder and its premeditation is real and not part of the fairy tale. Gypsy has no maturity as a woman. This may not end well.
This was about revenge and power. Gypsy wanted to take her power back. I’m sensing “I’ll show you, mom”. Her power was stripped, her agency stolen. This was her taking her power back in the most unhealthy way. We can all agree she was a victim and how she was raised was absolutely horrid. We can all agree that had we been in the same situation we would have wanted to do the same thing. Here’s the kicker, it was still wrong and Gypsy still knew right from wrong. After a year of planning a murder, I have no doubt she could have come up with an alternate plan. This was never about just leaving, this was about revenge and power...
Can’t get enough of this nuanced compassionate and challenging discussion of the case. In true crime I feel we like clearly defined victims and quick to judge perpetrators as evil. There are many lenses through which you can look at this case and what is becoming clear is just how blurred those lines are becoming. Gypsy, her mother and Nick can each be seen each as both victim and villain. There are no neat boxes here.
Nick truly had mental illness. The system failed him. Gypsy belongs in prison still not making money off her crime. A grown woman planning her mother's murder. Not a girl but a grown woman. She acted like a child if it benefits her. She could plan a murder but not a way out. It's sickening. Now her and her free riding husband are eating the attention up. It's absolutely sickening. Gypsy should still be in prison. She didn't even try to go to law enforcement. She's making money off her crime not raising awareness DeeDee wasn't diagnosed with anything. The entire advocating I call bs on ....Gypsy will run with this as long as she can. The attention will die down. Then what will she plan for attention? Her marriage will come to a end with the attention. Gypsy is out for attention and eating it up. She's not living in a real world like we are. Nick is the victim of Gypsy. Gypsy is still out manipulating people.
Gypsy did not say anything well into adulthood because she too, benefitted from all the lies. If she sold DeeDee out, she would have lost out too. And she’s doing the same thing now. She’s keeping the victim narrative alive and benefitting greatly from it. Not saying she is not/was not a victim, but most ppl would want out of the spotlight and she just continues to CHOOSE stay in it…just like she did with her mom far into adulthood. Last weekend I felt so sorry for her, now I’m not so sure.
I do believe that most people in her situation would want to stay out of spotlight and live a lower key life , but gypsy is still making money from what was done
I think part of the problem is that we either want to see her so damaged that it explains the murder or we think she’s thinking rationally and should be punished more. She is neither. That’s why it’s so complicated. Thank you for giving me more to think about and use to try and understand this case. You and Lauren are amazing together. BTW: glad that this case is not about the LDS. 😂
DD never left her alone… Except online, and at the movie theater, and long enough to steal a knife from Walmart, ….. 😒 Gypsy found someone else to do her dirty work, and take the blame. Isn’t remorse supposed to be a a consideration for parole?! 🤷♀️🤯 she has none! Now she’s finding even more gullible people! 🤯🤯🤯
Thank you Dr John for speaking the truth. I personally have a hard time believing everything Gypsy says. Dee Dee wasn't innocent. But, we are only hearing one side to this story.
Well said. Like they say there is always 3 sides to a story. In this case there is Gypsy's side, Dee dee's side( whom is unfortunately dead), and the actual truth.
One thing I’ve taken from this.. you didn’t say it.. but my brain has realised it. Gypsy rose to her mom: you brought this upon yourself. Look at what you made me do. Gypsy rose to nick: you brought this upon yourself. You read my messages and you wanted to kill someone anyway.. Gypsy rose to herself: I am a victim. I had no choice. I had no options. I was helpless. I couldn’t ask for help. I couldn’t tell anyone. Gypsy rose asked nick for help (when she trusted someone she could ask for help) Gypsy rose had ran away before (she had trusted other people before and asked them to help) Gypsy rose did have contact with the outside world (she had private communications with a few people) Gypsy rose plotted her mums murder over a long period of time.
Thank you for the realistic perspective. I've always struggled with this case from day 1. My heart breaks for Gypsy. She is broken, and will never be 'normal'. It's not her fault, but she only knows what she has experienced and seen. She has been conditioned to manipulate and use people for her own gain from birth. That is part of her, forever, as she knows nothing else, and as a 'victim' all but got a slap on the wrist for her mothers death. Now she is receiving the ultimate reward for doing so, and I expect, in time, the dialogue will change greatly and there will be much greater tales of horror from her. I do hope it all goes well for Gypsy, but I do not feel she has had the help & support she needs to adapt to life without being controlled. I hope there isn't a trail of destruction of other lives left in her wake. She is still living the life path her mother set for her. She is still living as if her mother is still here.
Yes I’m afraid she will leave a trail of destruction and hurt people in her wake. She seems to still be lying and manipulating and playing the victim for money and attention, only now she’s using the narrative that she’s an abused woman instead of a sick kid. The reason has changed, but the actions are basically the same!
Dr JOhn's views are most enlightening. And I appreciate his ability to provide his professional analysis regardless of whether he offends people or not.
I can't say it enough. HTC is the real deal when it comes to all things true crime. I can't begin to describe how much I learn with each and every story you guys cover. I may not always agree, but that's the beauty of it. I love topics and ideas that make me think and see things differently. Isn't that the reason for watching? To get new and different perspectives? To open our minds in a way that gets us thinking? Those are the channels and stories I want to be a part of. Not the one's who say exactly what I want them to say, but the one's that make me question my own thoughts and ideas. This case, along with so many others HTC has covered, are difficult, but Dr. John's analysis of them have helped me see and understand them in a way I couldn't before. The passion and heart you both bring to each case you cover is just beautiful. I am so proud to be a part of this community. Thank you for always making this channel a safe place and the most interesting place on youtube.
I said it during the last disand Im saying it again. Thank you, for saying what so many others won't say and having a truthful discussion! Appreciate all your hard work!
Great opening, Dr. John. My family is from New Orleans and it made me think about how the con can be a huge part of Louisiana culture. There's a lot of people without a lot of means and grifting to get by is not uncommon.
@@HiddenTrueCrimeI’m totally blown away with the way John explains everything, from using Shakespeare to Disney characters. Who’d have thought any sense could be made using what otherwise sounds like polar opposites!! Just amazing. I wanted to say, I’ve watched a fair few videos on this case, & I’m ashamed to say I was quite closed minded, thinking Gypsy Rose was solely "the victim", however, after listening to you both, my eyes have been open to so many more possibilities!!! I still think a lot of what GR went through as a child, was horrendous, but with the exception of a few things, I now don’t think she was treated as bad as I have been thinking since I first heard of this case! Now…. I don’t think she should have been released from prison after only serving 8 & a half years of her 10 year sentence, in fact I think she should have been given a harsher sentence & she should have served the entire time given!! I also definitely don’t think she should be treated like some celebrity that’s worked years to build up a fan base!! Like an actor or singer… Also, why is she allowed to make money from her crime? Like having a book deal, making appearances where she can make more money? Do you know if she made money from the documentary she made? It’s all kinds of wrong!!! Sorry, rant over! Thank you both for opening my eyes!
@@estianna76 I think it’s really awesome you were open to other viewpoints … and willing to change your mind. I try to be this way too. It’s a narrow world out there sometimes.
@@estianna76 I enjoyed reading your rant haha and resonate with much of what u say. I found listening to this “lecture” really helped expand my mind in unexpected ways… like you said so many possibilities!
I feel sorry for her, but I don't notice positive change in character. I sense superficial life planning, and it seems she still relies on others to provide opportunities and create successful outcomes for her. I hope she doesn't get stuck in the more comfortable mode of manipulation for the purpose of survival and achieving her life goals.
I remember watching the documentary on her when she was in prison ( I think it was hulu). I felt there was something off with her; she had some type of personality disorder and was manipulative. I thought she belonged in prison (no problem with length), while many thought she shouldn't go to prison. I was hoping she would come out of prison and learn skills to live in the community, not running around country attention seeking. I felt bad for Nick because he got life in prison when he killed for her. Watching how she acts when she got out and listening to HTC giving more background on her life, I think she is a sociopath. Doesn't mean she will kill again. She is extremely manipulative. She plays the victim better than anyone I have ever seen. I don't trust her. The statement about wanting to work with Kim K to work on prison reform is huge red flag.
@@merricat3025 In GR's mind, what is the point of changing? Playing the victim got her attention from her mom. Playing the victim got her lots of money, welfare, trips to Disneyland, meeting celebrities and even a house. Playing the victim got her to manipulating a disabled man into murdering her mother on her word. Playing victim got her a lighter sentence and eventual freedom. Playing victim got her a husband, spots on tv shows and a book-deal. She has been rewarded constantly for bad behavior her entire life. It's all she knows, she learned to be a very good actor. Obviously if you know the signs, you'll see right through it. Feels like she is very good at telling people what they want to hear, being the person they want to see. In more recent podcast videos of her with her ex-fiance (lol left her husband pretty quickly eh?) I think we see more of her without the mask. Same personality she had in the tapes with Nick! She is a braggard and loves being this scandalous "bad girl".
I agree with you Dr.John. I always felt she should have done more time...or at least she shouldn't have gotten 10 years when the guy got life. Now that I hear her shirking responsibility, that just reinforces my belief. Gypsy is definitely a victim, but she was also complicit in her mother's grifts. Gypsy is also a manipulator, which she learned from her mother.
I don't necessarily think she deserves more time in prison but she obviously needs more time to rehabilitate. She needs sooooo much more self awareness before she can safely function in society.
@@juliefox1743but there's a question - do we say similar things with other murder cases? Why are we still worried about her wellbeing? This is an honest 'why', not a blame attempt.
@@zofiazajdel good question. The answer for me is YES. I do think of this regarding other offenders our whole system focuses too much on punishment and not enough on rehabilitation. Most offenders will get out and then what? It would be better for society if we actually focused more on rehabilitation and actually acting to reduce the risk of recidivism than the purely punitive system we have in place. I'm not a professional but based on her comments, it doesn't appear she is ready to rejoin society. I don't necessarily think she needs more punishment but she needs SOMETHING more before I'd feel comfortable turning her loose on society.
@@juliefox1743I agree with you. There was a girl in the comments section in one of the documentaries that said Gypsy Rose stalked her online from prison. Said she's got a mean streak and that she almost committed suicide over it. 😢. They also said current husband was part of it,that they're trolling people who posts stuff they don't like.
I for one am GRATEFUL you are using your platform to educate our community. As a society we need to increase awareness, including self awareness thereby making EQ a priority. An opportunity for growth is being presented for the collective. ♥️❤️♥️
I really appreciate Dr. Matthias holding space for exploring the complexity and nuances of this case and his courage to unpack and challenge the dominant narratives. Tolerance for uncertainty and ambiguity is not easy for humans.
Next week, can we talk about why people are so unwilling to see the nuance and complexity of this case? Why are so many people determined to see Gypsy as a "pure" victim?
I think it's because of society's want for things to be black or white in the criminal justice system especially. As well as the documentaries, Hulu, and lifetime movies... that gives you a fictionalized, dramatized, one-sided version of events. Her years of abuse by her mother and being failed by the medical and social services understandably was heart-wrenching. Life is not black or white; good or bad unfortunately, but many shades of gray.
My two cents: I think, honestly, the Factitious Disorder imposed on a child is so painful for people to imagine - so by taking a stance of objectivity, that victim/martyr complex is investigated and critiqued, which piques people’s parasympathetic nervous systems, adrenaline, and defensive stances. To get armchair psychoanalyst, people may be projecting their own experiences of childhood maltreatment or ab**e.
Gypsy was a victim from as far back as a few months old when it really started , when she told gypsy dad that gypsy was having breathing problems, and a few years later DeDe made gypsy get in that damn wheelchair after scraping her knee when she was riding on a motorcycle with a family member and he wrecked the motorcycle , gypsy just had skin scraped on her knee. , yes she was a victim of DeDe and if DeDe hadn’t been murdered I believe gypsy would be dead before now from all that medicine and let’s not forget more than 30 unnecessary surgeries and a freaking feeding tube she didn’t need and the pain she went through with just the feeding tube they don’t even put the patient to sleep for those painful tubes and not forget all the pain from 30 surgeries , it had for me to feel very much sympathy for a mother like DeDe . Sorry , but DeDe was an absolute fraud from start to end
Absolutely LOVE seeing Defense Diaries commenting through the Live!!! Makes me feel like I’m home. Great live tonight! Thank you for helping us all dissect such a complex situation that addresses the concerns and wins from one extreme side of thinking, all the way to the extreme opposite. Grateful for such a thought provoking analysis. What Gems you two are. ❤
As the mother of an autistic young man I live in fear of my son meeting someone like Gypsy. Not that I think he would ever kill anyone but he could be easily manipulated into other things, taking out phone contracts, financially abuse etc I doubt Nick Godejohn would ever had killed anyone if he had not met Gypsy.
Same. I have two. One is 8 y.o, one is 26 y.o. I tell him this story as a warning about how some people in the world are not going to be trustworthy and can have very bad intentions. I completely understand the fear, you are not alone. So many of us parents of the Autistic community are being impacted by Nick’s story, and praying for him.
It's not just the Gypsys.. It's a long complex story, and there's no way to truly explain the nuances briefly. But long story short, a relative of mine, @ a similar age to Nicholas, was charged with online grooming. He was caught up in, and hounded by 'a child' (Police Officer) on a task force, that were picking out adults chatting on online games. The only thing that saved him from conviction, was that he didn't instigate the 'meet up' agreement, of which he was going to be 500km away at the time anyway, and there were text messages between he and a friend the whole time about 'this idiot pretending to be a child In short, he knew the 'child' wasn't a child, but instead of ignoring them when they continued to message him, he 'played along' for shits & giggles. Scary stuff!
All I have to say is that this is a good conversation. I appreciate it. Many victims of all kinds of abuse don’t like the story of an abuse victim abusing or murdering someone else (myself included). It seems unfair to those of us who suffered but didn’t act out in that horrible way. Thanks guys.
Because of this expert opinion and shared details, my impression of Gypsy and the situation has changed. I feel manipulated by Gypsy. TY Lauren and John.
I have commented a lot sooo I am new here & came across this channel due to someone commenting on maybe it was the law & crime network , they named your channel & how good it was. So thank you to that person & also to Hidden True Crime, you have exceeded my expectations of the clarity & depth of your perspective on this case. Much appreciated. 👍🏼from 🇦🇺
Why is it so hard for some to acknowledge Gypsy has a dark side? As they said many times the fact does not negate the fact she was abused. Plus, raised by her mother she must need so much therapy to unlearn all she was taught. She is both a victim and a murderer. I hope she gets the help she needs to break her mom’s curse and can finally live a happy and healthy life
Gypsy has repeatedly expressed remorse, she said her mother didn't deserve to die and wishes she had taken different actions to escape, while Gypsy was in prison she took multiple voluntary classes about taking accountability, she has said she wants to use her fame to help advocate for other victims, she served the prison sentence she was given, she said she is getting therapy. What more is she supposed to do to "take responsibility" in your eyes that she hasn't done already?
If you're referring to her placing blame on Nick. She explained that he was very controlling and abusive, (which was substantiated by his ex gf.) Gypsy feels like he took advantage of her in many ways including raping her so I can see why she wouldn't necessarily be in his corner fighting for his release. Even so, she did testify for the defense in his trial, other than that she didn't have any control or say in how his court case went. She has to live with the part she played in the murder, it isn't her responsibility to take on Nick's half too. He's responsible for his own actions, having autism doesn't excuse anything.
Gypsy rose is not a celebrity… just reminding a few people out there who are swooning over her new found celebrity status. She is the victim of a horrendous childhood and she is a convicted murderer. She’s told her story. Why is she walking the red carpets at different events? Her story is complex. And yes it should raise awareness for other victims out there. But she is not a celebrity. Dr John has never said that she wasn’t a victim. But he is explaining this is a highly complex situation and there is more to GR own narrative about what has happened. Her narrative seems to be. I’m a princess, I needed rescuing, my mum was evil a monster that needed to die. Now this is my happy ever after.. Gypsy Rose, it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.
I wanted to thank you both for both episodes of Gypsy Rose! This is why I love your channel. It feels like a class with a wise professor and I want Dr. john to know that I love all of his analysis! ❤
At the end of the day, IMO GR engaged in a con and murder as an adult. This does not negate the abuse she endured as a child, it just does not excuse her actions as an adult. Thank you, Dr. John, for your thoughts on this case.
Thank you for enriching my life. I learn so much. South Africa is crime ridden but we have mostly good and kiind people here❤ Understanding human behaviour has always been extremely important to me. I read a quote years ago when I was 16.. It said: "Rather than condemning human behaviour rather try to understand it." This quote has served me well as a teacher of teenagers from all over Africa. Thank you for your wonderful conversations and openess.
Kudos to you both on tackling this maddening case. Your bravery in the face of much criticism is evidence to me of your commitment to hidden truth! Keep it up and know that there r people out here questing with u.
I have a company and I do a lot of work with a company that is very similar to Make A Wish. Apparently Gypsy Rose was one of the first people they interviewed to be a wish child. This case is also close to home for me because I live right outside of New Orleans (in Slidell) and I have a lot of family in the same areas that they lived in. I don’t necessarily agree with everything I heard on the last video but I’m interested to hear what you guys have to say. This case has always been very interesting to me, so I’m trying to listen with an open mind. I love hearing everyone’s opinions. 💜
Yes I remember her pictures. She was viewed as a "celebrity" even then. I remember the Mardi Gras parade where she got to meet the Bachus of the time, this had to be 2003 or 2005 ish. Actor Sean Astin was the Bachus. I may be mixing up some pictures (this feels like a lifetime ago. Holy hell!) but she got to meet some of the "Lord of the Rings" actors, as well as all sorts. It was crazy for me when she got in the news for murdering her mother and then finding out her entire life was phony and megs level fraud, bc I remember some of her MAW photos. This is still haunting. DeeDee managed to bamboozle everyone!!
Thank you, John and Lauren, for this discussion. You put words to what has always bothered me about this case. I was never able to think of Gypsy Rose as a pure victim, and I was ashamed of that.
Great live!!! I had to dip out but I was able to listen to the rest. You guys are doing a great job. You are the gold standard in my opinion…. I've been in true crime for 10 years and I re you guys are doing a great job. You are the gold standard in my opinion and I really respect the work that you put in. You guys aren’t just guessing on Facts and I really respect the work that you put in. You guys aren’t just guessing on facts!
Not saying this is what you’re doing but I’m so glad to see a deeper and opposite perspective of this case! Lots of people have had horrific childhoods and may go on to comment crimes but not many get excused for what they did because of their past! Not many would become popular/celebrity for the murder of their mother! I would ask everyone to think perhaps it could become addictive or enjoyable to be able to have full attention from others, sympathies, kindness, trips to Disney etc (which I think well deserved for sick children) however knowing you haven’t actually got the worry/stress because you know your child or yourself isn’t sick basically it really is just a scam! A scam to get sympathy, to get free things/money, to get attention and gypsy was part of that scam when she was older. I don’t think we should ignore her abuse but not think she’s free of sin just because of her childhood abuse! Big thank you Lauren and Dr John for daring to talk about this xxxx
I’ve been watching you guys for a long time and I have to say this is one of my favorite breakdowns of Dr. John’s. I LOVE literature breakdowns and comparisons to real life scenarios because it forces you to think about what we experience differently. In our modern world it’s easy to get caught up in the less “deep” explanation, but the truth is things often tend to be much more complex than just a surface simple level of an explanation. Thank you for this 🫶🏻
Thank you for the analysis. I agree most criminal acts are complex. I do think no-one can never tell what could happen when people are pushed beyond their limitations. Our human survival instinct doesn’t always follow known guidelines. Dr John thank you again.
@HTC, You both run this channel with the best of intentions, and you have never failed to bring those intentions to fruition! I am hoping that you do not change any aspect of your intentions, because of unkind words and ill-intentioned deeds to poison the confidence of another person, which could cause you to stumble; with your intention to bring clarity and not confusion to any situation. I am thankful to see you both rise with honor; instead of meeting these people's unkindness with disrespect. You have gained the respect of your Gems, because of your hard hard work in vetting the facts of what you share. Thankfullness is given for all that you both do to make The Hidden Truth; no longer hidden. You both bring your integrity and shine into a light to be proven as true and transparent. Keep up the good work, because it is seen and appreciated.
Thanks! Love from Prairie Village, Kansas. I listen to your Podcasts while I walk my dogs or spend time on the treadmill. Your discussions distract me from my exercise and fulfill my intellectual curiosity.
It seems to me that Gypsy had a lot of extra time away from her mother during the evening hours. She had time to have a full blown relationship with several men, eat what she wanted and access to opioids to form an addiction. Why didn’t she utilize this time to get ahold of her father or authorities? Sometimes I wonder if she was knowingly involved with the fraudulent scheme. I do feel badly for her because she was given no choice as a child. I feel that she was eased into her role. Still, until she stands up and takes responsibility for her actions then she has no chance at forming any real relationships. Everything in her life will eventually spiral out of control. She is as much to blame as Nick, maybe even more. Nick doesn’t carry the mental mentality to make good decisions, hence why he was still living at home with his mother. It’s a sad situation and no one is a hero
Bingo, towards he end of the one documentary, she said she should have picked up the phone and called her dad!😮 I am like, girl, bye! That’s all it would have taken and both she and her father admitted that! Unreal! She had an option!
That's what i think Gypsy was afraid of. Exposure. Exposure of her scam, her fraud.she was always aware some fraud was happening and as she aged she took deeper part in it. How would she get out of her situation without facing culpability?
@@didirobert3657 I remember hearing so many stories of abused kids in awful situations with horrible parents escaping and contacting the authorities! Ruby Frank's son comes to mind. He was only 12. So not doing anything was a choice by Gypsy, at least to some degree. She had opportunities if she truly just wanted to escape. Her mom was in bad health before her murder and I do truly believe she was not in fear for her life the way she claims. It wasn't *enough* for GR to simply run away with Nick. She had to enact revenge.
Thank you both for bringing another perspective to such a sad case! I love having my first impressions & biases challenged. And the reminder that multiple things can be true at the same time…Gypsy was no doubt a victim, but maybe she also became a monster? Idk, but love finding the hidden motivations. Well done!
I absolutely love your channel. I really appreciate your wisdom and insight. I learn so much from both of you. Thank you for your honesty in the analysis that you share with us. Please keep sharing the truth instead of what people are only willing to hear. We need the truth. You are both such mentors for me.
Dr John coming out swinging with Shakespeare! What a great intro to this topic. Thanks for this super in depth discussion. I've always felt very conflicted about Gypsy and those feelings have only intensified as I've seen bits of her tour. I remember watching that moment when she says her mothers last words were "don't hurt me" and I sort of shook them off as "don't hurt me" in an emotional sense given I felt it lacked context. The newer information definitely makes that moment much more suspect. You and Lauren bring up some really thought provoking questions regarding her culpability and the comparison to Lori Vallow Daybell has given me more to chew on. Thank you again for everything you do and all of the work that goes into this!
Soooo appreciate your analysis. Her post-release interviews left me knowing things are off. Great to look at all sides of the story and not simply fall for the victim story.
This is heavy. There is so much I want to thank you for. Working together you have tools from journalism and psychology. It makes you organized, creative and relevant reporting on crime. Sometimes as a bonus feature I feel like a voyeur seeing and hearing snippets of your married life Hope you do not mind. And Lauren: Live long and prosper!
Gypsy is a product of her mother...and I do hope and pray she can get the help she truly needs!...It's going to be ongoing for the rest of her life and hope she stays honest with herself and others in the process...because that's what it's going to take if she wants to keep her freedom! It's her journey and hope she makes the best of it from her on! Thank you Lauren and Dr John, for this podcast and great insight! Love digging deep and getting this twisted mess to make a little more sense!
Thank you, John & Lauren! I was confused while watching the HBO documentary when I heard Gypsy say the last thing her mother said to her was, “don’t hurt me “. That statement seemed to come out of nowhere and I thought I had lost some of the plot. The documentary didn’t explore the topic of possible violence committed by Gypsy besides her plotting her mother’s murder.
Fantastic live tonight. Question for Dr. John: In her interrogation Gypsy starts off lying. The detective is pushing her for "why." At one point she crumples and she drops her prepared story. She says, "My mom had legal papers drawn up saying I was incompetent." The detective doesn't know what she's saying and pushes her to talk about Nick. This seemed to me to be the moment where we could have gotten closer to the "why," had the detective understood what she was saying. I feel like she was talking about how trapped she felt and like there was no other way out. Is that not the case in your opinion?
I feel really bad for Nick. Gypsy Rose doesn’t care about what’s happening to him. When Nick is mentioned she’s very dismissive. She actually says something to the effect of well Nick will just have to deal with his sentence. She only cares about herself and I feel really sorry for her husband. Not sure he knows what he’s got himself in to!! I do pray that Nick does not have to serve a life sentence, Gypsy is just as responsible for this murder is Nick and she’s getting out in eight or nine years? Is that fair? NO!
You feel bad for Nick?! A violent offender who never should’ve been paroled to begin with, who SA’d Gypsy Rose the night he killed her mother. Do you work for his Defense team, or something? If not, God help us all. Hope for humanity lost with all your r[CENSORED BY TH-cam]pe apologism. If he ever gets out, what he does next is gonna be on your conscience… assuming you even have one.
I agree with Dr John! Nothing justifies abuse… nothing. And nothing justifies bad behavior regardless of your background. It may explain things but it doesn’t justify it. As Dr Phil says, you have zero % responsibility for what happens to you as a child but 💯 responsibility for what you do with it as an adult. Personal accountability! I’m with you Dr! 🙌🏼
Are you guys going to do a follow up on this with aspects from the medical records and just general information/behaviors that have been seen since this video? ❤
This whole story of gypsy is just wild. I was very surprised at how high functioning gypsy was in private vs. her public persona. Despite her lack of education and life experiences she had the ability to fully manipulate and execute a plan for murder. She is very savvy despite the little girl voice and the horror of the abuse she suffered.
It’s important to understand that Gypsy was never aloof or uneducated. Quite the opposite, she is well read and spoken. She is like a Paris Hilton, playing the dumb girl for attention but incredibly manipulative for her own good.
Thankyou so much for covering this case, and truthfully! It's been mentally frustrating reading people's comments on TikTok and other social media platforms, putting Gypsy on a pedestal like she's a hero or celebrity of sorts...not realizing what this could do to her psyche.
I think it may be difficult for some to see GRB as anything more than a victim. I am so glad you are elucidating her true manipulative agency in setting this murder in planning and action. Personally, I feel she needed to receive a much longer sentence. She's also being managed behind the scenes imo as to portray her as a social media sensation. Appreciate you!
I've known about Gypsy's case for years, I remember when she was on Dr. Phil, but I don't think I really watched it, at least not so intensely that I remember. I'm sure I saw a good few Dateline type shows. Then I watched The Act when it first came out, and it got me diving in a little bit here on YT. My running thought was always "Omg, this poor baby! This evil witch, omg!" then "Oh... she knows she can walk? And eat? And she does? And she ran away and came back? And she's living an entire life of her own, separate from her mother online? This is getting more gray..." followed by "You're telling me Gypsy's spending 3 years dangling this carrot in front of the horses nose with Nick... it was all her idea, and he didn't want to, and actually said no and gave reasonable alternatives (we'll run far away where no one can find us) and Gypsy said no, you have to unalive her for me to be my knight in shining armor"???? Okay, well that changes things. I think a lot of people who are just starting to consume all of this case history at once can't see the nuances as much, because it is a lot of information to take in at once! Something I don't remember, whether it's just not something I saw or remembered, or if it's something that wasn't totally out there and readily available; ❓️ We know about the physically violent incident when she was 19 after running away; do we know that the physical violence continued after it started? Or was this more of an isolated incident? Also, do we know what was happening with the medical ab*se in her adult years; after the 19yo running away situation, through 23 when this happened? Were there more surgeries or anything happening or planned?❓️
I think the fact that her story changes over time and she's unwilling to take responsibility says everything I need to know. She's still manipulating her story. I agree with everything you said.
It just occurred to me-maybe DeeDee started becoming physical when Gypsy aged up and started lashing out violently. So the new physical abuse was, ironically, self defense. DeeDee realized she had gone too far and was now scared of Gypsy. Thanks again.
Hey there, Nuanced detailed analysis. Hold your ground on not being pushed into narratives that do not ring true to you. It’s so valuable to me. Thankyou John and Lauren
Lauren and Dr. John always research these cases as much as possible, even obtaining sources that most people can’t or won’t take the time to get. Opinion is one thing we are all entitled to but thank God there are people like Lauren and Dr. Matthias who do all the work necessary to bring this discussion to TH-cam. God Bless.
It's so hard to find anyone willing to face the complexity and nuance of life. I appreciate that you are addressing it head-on. We all need to accept that it's ok to learn from new evidence and other perspectives.
These analyses Dr. John is doing on this case are so spot on and important. I haven’t always agreed with everything he has said on other cases but I think he is so insightful on this. Thank you as I’m sure they are very time consuming.
Thank you dearest Lauren & Dr John. 💞 Could Physical Abuse be ''By Proxy' I wonder. Ie Regarding Gypsy's many Medical Procedures causing physical pain? 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 Can Gypsie be expected to think & rationalise normally - after her abuse? Dr John's mind works differently to ours, due to his work as a Forensic Psychologist - his Clinical mind. Lauren as a Reporter also looks at Crime differently. - How lucky we are to know, that they both have caring hearts 🥰 I am thankful that you both share your Professions & compliment one another 💞 Thank you, Steph at New South Wales, Australia 🌺💖🌺💖
My mother was mentally ill. She abused me all the way up to 17 years old. When I stood up to her and said if you put your hands on me again I would call the police on her. My mother tried to murder me 3 times in my life. I ran out of fear, life or flight. I had to do something or I was going to die , either by her hand or my own. I was very fragile by that point. I made a choice to make my way to my own life. It has been a lifetime of work. Today I can sleep with a sense of safety. I did not murder my mother.
❤
Bless you ♥️And I am sure you didn’t get the Hollywood treat and have money thrown at you. Gypsy needs mental heath treatment and should go away and live a quiet life, not become a star.
❤❤❤
Same.
Wonderful, finding a way to build your life, establish boundaries with your mother and caring your mental health are commendable. I wish you the best life going forward!
Being abused doesn't give anyone the right to abuse someone else, ruin their life, then act like you're their victim too. If she would have killed her mom, and didn't drag an autistic, learning disabled person in to do her bidding... I could understand that and it would have probably been considered justified homicide with no time in jail...
But why do that when you can put the blame on someone else, wipe your hands of it, and absolve yourself of all the sin? Live your best life.
This is very insightful. Nick was Gypsys victim. Why isn't she using her platform to advocate for his release?
Nick and DeeDee are BOTH Gypsy’s VICTIMS!
I believe she won’t advocate for his release because by admitting that she manipulated him will ruin the delusion she continues to live under - I’m a good little abused girl and it was the only way to escape my abuser - by admitting she is a cold hearted killer is not how she wants to be viewed by the public and media
@@JoanneFord-o2s that’s exactly why she won’t advocate for Nick and goes as far as to defame him and her mother. To make herself look better and less responsible.
Which shows how small she still is in all of this. She is not taking the responsibility for anything that happened. She is the perfect victim and forever child.@@StraightOutOfContextWithBarbie
I feel like I am attending a PhD level class discussion on this case (but made understandable to non PhD students). Things in life are rarely black and white, just varying shades of gray. Thank you for this - fascinating ❤
Absolutely especially Psychology.
My problem is I saw her one way. As a victim. Until she got out, showed no sympathy at all for Nicholas, claimed to not identify as a murder. But then tells us she unloaded what she thought was a real gun into her mom after the runaway thing. She then learned it was a bb gun. My thoughts are she would have been the only murder if the gun she thought was real had been.
Yes!
Not too many people talk about this.
Omg! I have to study more into this. I don't remember the BB gun incident
@@TheCandiceWangI think it is in her documentary. Gypsy said “She grabbed the gun, she says, and threatened her mother with it. “And before I knew it, I pulled the trigger as many times as I could.” She shot at her 10 times. Only when she saw that her mother’s wounds were superficial did she realize it was a BB gun and not a deadly handgun.”
Yes. Watching Nick's confession video here on TH-cam and hearing him describe Gipsy's behaviour sealed my uneasy feelings. He talked about waiting outside of the bathroom while Gypsy shaves her private parts after the crime. How perverted is that? She literally bribed him with a promise of s3x.
Part 3, please? This is fascinating.
Seconded
Yes, please!!
I am literally incapable of watching or listening to anything more than once… yet here I am, one week later listening again 😂 I NEED more… this case is fascinating and complex, Dr John really is the best of the best
Yes!! More of this @Hidden True Crime!
I was physically abused as a child. Acting in the moment hurting back would have been self defense. Planning to have my abuser being killed is murder. The fact that DeeDee is not a sympathetic victim makes the story seem difficult, but it’s not.
Yes - I never hit back - when my brother did he was given up to system- was anger and ugly feelings there - yes for many many decades- never considered murder
I fully agree. My siblings and I were also abused, certainly not to the degree GR was, but abused nonetheless. At no point did murder ever enter into the equation. Nor would I feel like having been abused would've justified murder.
@41Pucky Thank you. I was also a victim of my mother’s physical, emotional, and medical abuse (repeated and unnecessary surgeries and procedures, including an invasive gynecological exam at only 7 or 8 years old, and a rhinoplasty at age 11 performed for an alleged breathing problem I did not have). The beatings, threats, and emotional denigration were horrific, and I was perpetually afraid for my life. But while I may have fantasized about my mother’s death (which would have brought about my freedom), it never once occurred to me that I should or could be the cause. There is nothing my mother could ever do that would make me capable of her level of behavior, much less of murder.
What alarms me about Gypsy Rose is the inauthenticity, attention seeking, and lack of insight, humility, or empathy for her codefendant that I see. She is no doubt a victim, just as her mother likely was (and just as my own was). But victimhood is not a one-dimensional artifact; humans are infinitely complex.
@@ihaveseensuchthings I'd say a factor in GR deciding to premediate murder and all the acting, guilt-shifting and changing of stories seems to paint her as definitely having some of the dark-triad personality traits. Now, narcassist, sociopath or whatever title you wanna try to assign that is up for debate. She certainly shows signs of low-empathy, compulsive lying and seemed to be overjoyed after the murder to the point of bragging. As we saw with the Facebook posts and the videos she make with Nick just after.
Most people don't fall on this spectrum. Even if you do have idealization of murdering your abuser, few would act on such impulses.
GR garnering infamy and tons of attention is probably the worst possible thing for her at this moment, if she was truly wishing to seek reform. Right now, I don't think that's the case and it may not ever be her desire to truly grow and process it through therapy. GR is chasing the highs of fame, attention and whatever thrill-seeking she can grab onto.
That part. Also, there's just too many holes in her narrative. They MADE her out to not be a sympathetic victim. Either way she was still the victim.
Thank you so much for this in depth analysis. I’ve always thought something was off and it was so evident for me upon her release and the manner she’s conducting herself. The fact she has no sympathy for Nick, whom she manipulated to commit the crime, thinking she can fool us all, demonstrates to me GR will do anything to remove anyone in her way to benefit her. I do think she learned from her mother how to play the victim part to get her things and now the limelight. Dr. John thank you for breaking this down for us.
I agree. Her behavior and the ensuing public response reminds me of Amanda Knox.
@@alabama.worley In what way?
@@alabama.worley But Amanda Knox is innocent.
Lauren! Thank you for saying what you said at the end! Many killers and criminals have very difficult and abusive backstories! We still hold them accountable for their actions. Gypsy Rose is no different! I am so tired of people giving her a hall pass. She killed her Mom, Period.
Her mom was killing her slowly, and I personally think that if DeDe had lived, I don’t believe gypsy would be alive today, De De should have been in prison a long time before what happened to her, She was one of the worst child abusers ever known about ,
I really appreciate your bravery and sticking to your analysis even in the face of backlash. Gypsy was a victim and she became the victimizer. It really leaves a bad taste in my mouth the way she is trying to put all the blame on Nick after begging him to do it. He did everything she told him to do. I think she targeted him due to his mental illness, she knew she could manipulate him to do her bidding.
Yep she is very smart and cunning. She picked someone she knew she could easily manipulate and worked on him for years to talk him into doing her bidding. I don't think she had any feelings for him at all, he was a pawn to her and collateral damage. She played the baby role pretending to be childlike and innocent, but even Nick in his interview said she had multiple personalities she would take on including her evil persona. Nick was completely honest in his interrogation and I have no reason to believe he lied about anything including the things he said about Gypsy. In fact he probably held back information trying to paint her in a better light because he was wanting to protect her. Nick is the one I feel bad for and I hope he gets a reduced sentence. Not once was abuse mentioned in either of the interrogations of either of them. He said multiple times he only stabbed her 4 times and there were 13 stab wounds. I believe the remaining wounds were from the hand of Gypsy herself. He also said her fingerprints would be on the knife because she handed it to him, bit I think that was a story they came up with to explain her prints being on the knife. I'm so sick of people painting her out to be a victim. Yes she dealt with some psychological abuse, but I think she was in on it and went along with it to get all the free trios and money they were getting due to her supposed illness. She was heavily rewarded for putting on the act of the poor defenseless sick child, yet she contradicts what supposedly happens over and over again and has been caught in so many lies its sickening. When she was asked what she would say to Nick this psychological literally had the nerve to say she wishes him well on his journey!?!?!? That statement alone and the way she threw him under the bus took away and compassion I had for her. She is not what she seems to be, she is. A wolf in sheep's clothing and she basically got away with murder.
I totally agree. I'm a licensed mental health professional.
The complexity of this case is immense.. there are no simple answers. Hopefully though minds are opened a bit.
💯
@@Joshthetruthseeker She obviously didn't hand pick him you can't tell what a person is capable of by just looking at their online dating profile.
I've worked with children who were victims of fabricated illness (what we call factitious disorder in the UK). It's interesting (and intensely) frustrating to see just how deeply they are invested in the lie that they are sick. Even after years of no contact with the parents, children/teens maintain the lie. One teen I worked with insisted on keeping a feeding tube and pursuing surgery for a feeding port despite no medical need. This child would consume "normal" foods at times and was aware they could eat normally. They wanted the focus of staff, that staff at school and elsewhere needed treatment, that they would have the attention of an adult to sit with them for the hours of feeding through the tube. It was desperately sad. I can see how Gypsy would be both a victim and being complicit. The relationship between a parent and child is a dance, even with a mum like DeeDee.
Thank you for this. We need to learn. We do not mean if we are not told
Ahh that's heartbreaking. 💔 Thanks for all you do.
Very well said
WOW, that is shockingly sad. My son was born with esophageal atresia, a 5 vertebrae gap. We treated him as a nomal baby, and toddler and taught him to eat until his reconstructive surgery at 18 months. We were so happy to see the g-tube go. Having had a special needs child, I am particularly horrified by a parent doing anything to hurt their child in this way. A real parent would trade place with their child in a hearbeat to bear the pain.
Yesssss ❤️ @@lifeisgood9175
I do love how you use literature, myth, fairytales etc to create space around the fixation that folks seem to group around during these uncertain times. Brilliant.
Thank you for your insight. I appreciate the fair objective viewpoint that someone who is the victim of horrible abuse does not excuse them from accountability of their premeditated intentions and involvement in a crime where their life is not consciously viewed as being in imminent danger otherwise. Dr. John is not *judging* her, he's just calling a spade a spade and letting society take that as they will. I think people are upset because they feel this implies she is a bad person and that's not necessarily what he's saying. He's just saying it doesn't make sense that she doesn't see herself as a murderer and distances herself from culpability based on logic and the circumstances
Can you write our show notes? This was great! Thank you for understanding
That was my takeaway too. Thanks for expressing it so well!
@@HiddenTrueCrime yes, anytime :) thanks for your honesty and efforts in putting out this content!
I totally agree with what you said about Dr. John. I totally agree how he is explaing what he sees in Gypsy Rose’s personality. Like you said, he is calling a spade a space. I know people a lot of people don’t see that like we do.
Brilliant analysis, just brilliant. As one with a lengthy medical/scientific education & professional background (along with my 30+ yrs true crime obsession) I LOVE the approach taken by HTC! So unique; definitely stands apart and far above any other, bar none. Beautifully presented, Dr. John & Lauren!
Your podcast is about the Why. We may never know but I’d wager that Dr John’s analysis is spot on. My eyes are wide open. Lots of people want to hear only half of her story, the abuse. The murder and its premeditation is real and not part of the fairy tale. Gypsy has no maturity as a woman. This may not end well.
Correct, if this continues(the way she is online), and no changes are made in her new life. Then this will definetly not end well.
I do think in time this may not end well, gypsy never had the chance to be a normal kid, and I do believe that will have a lasting effect on her
This was about revenge and power. Gypsy wanted to take her power back. I’m sensing “I’ll show you, mom”. Her power was stripped, her agency stolen. This was her taking her power back in the most unhealthy way. We can all agree she was a victim and how she was raised was absolutely horrid. We can all agree that had we been in the same situation we would have wanted to do the same thing. Here’s the kicker, it was still wrong and Gypsy still knew right from wrong. After a year of planning a murder, I have no doubt she could have come up with an alternate plan. This was never about just leaving, this was about revenge and power...
I'm
💯🙏🏼
Well put.
Yes! I saw your comment after posting mine. She even admits she could have called her dad.
Agree 100%!
Can’t get enough of this nuanced compassionate and challenging discussion of the case. In true crime I feel we like clearly defined victims and quick to judge perpetrators as evil. There are many lenses through which you can look at this case and what is becoming clear is just how blurred those lines are becoming. Gypsy, her mother and Nick can each be seen each as both victim and villain. There are no neat boxes here.
Really well said. Great comment.
Definitely a controversial case, sorry for nick he ended up paying for gypsy and her mother sick relationship!!
Thank you guys!!!
100 %…poor Nick!
The verdict was extremely strict for him. But we have to remember, that in the end he is a murderer.
Poor Nick? He had his own issues and wasn’t an angel. The question should be, where were Nick’s parents.
Nick truly had mental illness. The system failed him. Gypsy belongs in prison still not making money off her crime. A grown woman planning her mother's murder. Not a girl but a grown woman. She acted like a child if it benefits her. She could plan a murder but not a way out. It's sickening. Now her and her free riding husband are eating the attention up. It's absolutely sickening. Gypsy should still be in prison. She didn't even try to go to law enforcement. She's making money off her crime not raising awareness DeeDee wasn't diagnosed with anything. The entire advocating I call bs on ....Gypsy will run with this as long as she can. The attention will die down. Then what will she plan for attention? Her marriage will come to a end with the attention. Gypsy is out for attention and eating it up. She's not living in a real world like we are. Nick is the victim of Gypsy. Gypsy is still out manipulating people.
@@distinctlydri2831they let GR come live there.
Gypsy did not say anything well into adulthood because she too, benefitted from all the lies. If she sold DeeDee out, she would have lost out too. And she’s doing the same thing now. She’s keeping the victim narrative alive and benefitting greatly from it. Not saying she is not/was not a victim, but most ppl would want out of the spotlight and she just continues to CHOOSE stay in it…just like she did with her mom far into adulthood. Last weekend I felt so sorry for her, now I’m not so sure.
Exactly.
Exactly
Exactly
She was taught how to manipulate and deceive. And learned very well.
I do believe that most people in her situation would want to stay out of spotlight and live a lower key life , but gypsy is still making money from what was done
👏👏👏👏👏👏 Standing Ovation for Dr John for separating the GR criminal activities from receiving abuse so well!
I think part of the problem is that we either want to see her so damaged that it explains the murder or we think she’s thinking rationally and should be punished more. She is neither. That’s why it’s so complicated. Thank you for giving me more to think about and use to try and understand this case. You and Lauren are amazing together. BTW: glad that this case is not about the LDS. 😂
Great comment!
Great comment!
😄 Thank god for small blessings.
@@helenestiernstrand6575 🤣😆🤣
DD never left her alone…
Except online, and at the movie theater, and long enough to steal a knife from Walmart, ….. 😒
Gypsy found someone else to do her dirty work, and take the blame. Isn’t remorse supposed to be a a consideration for parole?! 🤷♀️🤯 she has none!
Now she’s finding even more gullible people! 🤯🤯🤯
Thank you Dr John for speaking the truth. I personally have a hard time believing everything Gypsy says. Dee Dee wasn't innocent. But, we are only hearing one side to this story.
What her daughter asked for it and tricked her mom into it? What story is she going to have outside of delusion?
Well said. Like they say there is always 3 sides to a story. In this case there is Gypsy's side, Dee dee's side( whom is unfortunately dead), and the actual truth.
One thing I’ve taken from this.. you didn’t say it.. but my brain has realised it.
Gypsy rose to her mom: you brought this upon yourself. Look at what you made me do.
Gypsy rose to nick: you brought this upon yourself. You read my messages and you wanted to kill someone anyway..
Gypsy rose to herself: I am a victim. I had no choice. I had no options. I was helpless. I couldn’t ask for help. I couldn’t tell anyone.
Gypsy rose asked nick for help (when she trusted someone she could ask for help)
Gypsy rose had ran away before (she had trusted other people before and asked them to help)
Gypsy rose did have contact with the outside world (she had private communications with a few people)
Gypsy rose plotted her mums murder over a long period of time.
Well-said!!!
Spot on!!!
Well said!
That story about the dogs giving up because they didn't know when they were going to get shocked, broke my heart. 💔 Those poor dogs.
Mine too 😟💔😭. Maybe they're free and in loving homes now 🥰🙏😇
Dr. John never disappoints nor ceases to amaze me, with his deep, intuitive insights into the human psyche.
Thank you for the realistic perspective. I've always struggled with this case from day 1. My heart breaks for Gypsy. She is broken, and will never be 'normal'. It's not her fault, but she only knows what she has experienced and seen. She has been conditioned to manipulate and use people for her own gain from birth.
That is part of her, forever, as she knows nothing else, and as a 'victim' all but got a slap on the wrist for her mothers death. Now she is receiving the ultimate reward for doing so, and I expect, in time, the dialogue will change greatly and there will be much greater tales of horror from her.
I do hope it all goes well for Gypsy, but I do not feel she has had the help & support she needs to adapt to life without being controlled. I hope there isn't a trail of destruction of other lives left in her wake.
She is still living the life path her mother set for her. She is still living as if her mother is still here.
❤ You wrote this better than I ❤
This comment. 100percent.
Yes I’m afraid she will leave a trail of destruction and hurt people in her wake. She seems to still be lying and manipulating and playing the victim for money and attention, only now she’s using the narrative that she’s an abused woman instead of a sick kid. The reason has changed, but the actions are basically the same!
This is so complex. John and Lauren as always present cases with a balanced view.
They teach us to look a little deeper.
Dr JOhn's views are most enlightening. And I appreciate his ability to provide his professional analysis regardless of whether he offends people or not.
This episode has all the things I love: crime, psychology, and Shakespeare. ❤
Ive changed my mind about her since her release. I really enjoy both your insights. Thank you.
I can't say it enough. HTC is the real deal when it comes to all things true crime. I can't begin to describe how much I learn with each and every story you guys cover. I may not always agree, but that's the beauty of it. I love topics and ideas that make me think and see things differently. Isn't that the reason for watching? To get new and different perspectives? To open our minds in a way that gets us thinking? Those are the channels and stories I want to be a part of. Not the one's who say exactly what I want them to say, but the one's that make me question my own thoughts and ideas. This case, along with so many others HTC has covered, are difficult, but Dr. John's analysis of them have helped me see and understand them in a way I couldn't before. The passion and heart you both bring to each case you cover is just beautiful. I am so proud to be a part of this community. Thank you for always making this channel a safe place and the most interesting place on youtube.
I said it during the last disand Im saying it again. Thank you, for saying what so many others won't say and having a truthful discussion!
Appreciate all your hard work!
Great opening, Dr. John. My family is from New Orleans and it made me think about how the con can be a huge part of Louisiana culture. There's a lot of people without a lot of means and grifting to get by is not uncommon.
This is the best video on TH-cam about Gypsy BY FAR and I’ve watched many
Honored you think this. If you’d please consider sharing it, it would mean so much
@@HiddenTrueCrimeI’m totally blown away with the way John explains everything, from using Shakespeare to Disney characters. Who’d have thought any sense could be made using what otherwise sounds like polar opposites!! Just amazing.
I wanted to say, I’ve watched a fair few videos on this case, & I’m ashamed to say I was quite closed minded, thinking Gypsy Rose was solely "the victim", however, after listening to you both, my eyes have been open to so many more possibilities!!! I still think a lot of what GR went through as a child, was horrendous, but with the exception of a few things, I now don’t think she was treated as bad as I have been thinking since I first heard of this case! Now…. I don’t think she should have been released from prison after only serving 8 & a half years of her 10 year sentence, in fact I think she should have been given a harsher sentence & she should have served the entire time given!! I also definitely don’t think she should be treated like some celebrity that’s worked years to build up a fan base!! Like an actor or singer… Also, why is she allowed to make money from her crime? Like having a book deal, making appearances where she can make more money? Do you know if she made money from the documentary she made? It’s all kinds of wrong!!! Sorry, rant over! Thank you both for opening my eyes!
@@HiddenTrueCrime Oh, & I will share your awesome video! 👏🏻👍🏻🫶🏼
@@estianna76 I think it’s really awesome you were open to other viewpoints … and willing to change your mind. I try to be this way too. It’s a narrow world out there sometimes.
@@estianna76 I enjoyed reading your rant haha and resonate with much of what u say. I found listening to this “lecture” really helped expand my mind in unexpected ways… like you said so many possibilities!
I feel sorry for her, but I don't notice positive change in character. I sense superficial life planning, and it seems she still relies on others to provide opportunities and create successful outcomes for her.
I hope she doesn't get stuck in the more comfortable mode of manipulation for the purpose of survival and achieving her life goals.
I remember watching the documentary on her when she was in prison ( I think it was hulu). I felt there was something off with her; she had some type of personality disorder and was manipulative. I thought she belonged in prison (no problem with length), while many thought she shouldn't go to prison. I was hoping she would come out of prison and learn skills to live in the community, not running around country attention seeking. I felt bad for Nick because he got life in prison when he killed for her. Watching how she acts when she got out and listening to HTC giving more background on her life, I think she is a sociopath. Doesn't mean she will kill again. She is extremely manipulative. She plays the victim better than anyone I have ever seen. I don't trust her. The statement about wanting to work with Kim K to work on prison reform is huge red flag.
@@merricat3025 In GR's mind, what is the point of changing? Playing the victim got her attention from her mom. Playing the victim got her lots of money, welfare, trips to Disneyland, meeting celebrities and even a house. Playing the victim got her to manipulating a disabled man into murdering her mother on her word. Playing victim got her a lighter sentence and eventual freedom. Playing victim got her a husband, spots on tv shows and a book-deal.
She has been rewarded constantly for bad behavior her entire life. It's all she knows, she learned to be a very good actor. Obviously if you know the signs, you'll see right through it. Feels like she is very good at telling people what they want to hear, being the person they want to see. In more recent podcast videos of her with her ex-fiance (lol left her husband pretty quickly eh?) I think we see more of her without the mask. Same personality she had in the tapes with Nick! She is a braggard and loves being this scandalous "bad girl".
I agree with you Dr.John. I always felt she should have done more time...or at least she shouldn't have gotten 10 years when the guy got life. Now that I hear her shirking responsibility, that just reinforces my belief. Gypsy is definitely a victim, but she was also complicit in her mother's grifts. Gypsy is also a manipulator, which she learned from her mother.
I don't necessarily think she deserves more time in prison but she obviously needs more time to rehabilitate. She needs sooooo much more self awareness before she can safely function in society.
@@juliefox1743but there's a question - do we say similar things with other murder cases? Why are we still worried about her wellbeing?
This is an honest 'why', not a blame attempt.
@@zofiazajdel good question. The answer for me is YES. I do think of this regarding other offenders our whole system focuses too much on punishment and not enough on rehabilitation. Most offenders will get out and then what? It would be better for society if we actually focused more on rehabilitation and actually acting to reduce the risk of recidivism than the purely punitive system we have in place. I'm not a professional but based on her comments, it doesn't appear she is ready to rejoin society. I don't necessarily think she needs more punishment but she needs SOMETHING more before I'd feel comfortable turning her loose on society.
@@juliefox1743I agree with you. There was a girl in the comments section in one of the documentaries that said Gypsy Rose stalked her online from prison. Said she's got a mean streak and that she almost committed suicide over it. 😢. They also said current husband was part of it,that they're trolling people who posts stuff they don't like.
I for one am GRATEFUL you are using your platform to educate our community. As a society we need to increase awareness, including self awareness thereby making EQ a priority. An opportunity for growth is being presented for the collective.
♥️❤️♥️
Yes
I was abused by my Mother, and though I got married to escape her, I NEVER would have actually hurt her.
Numerous children have been severely abused, similar to Gypsy, and those children didn't plan to murder their abuser.
I really appreciate Dr. Matthias holding space for exploring the complexity and nuances of this case and his courage to unpack and challenge the dominant narratives. Tolerance for uncertainty and ambiguity is not easy for humans.
Dr John is spot when he says we all need to sit in our own silence, very wise words
Next week, can we talk about why people are so unwilling to see the nuance and complexity of this case? Why are so many people determined to see Gypsy as a "pure" victim?
This! ❤
I think it's because of society's want for things to be black or white in the criminal justice system especially. As well as the documentaries, Hulu, and lifetime movies... that gives you a fictionalized, dramatized, one-sided version of events. Her years of abuse by her mother and being failed by the medical and social services understandably was heart-wrenching. Life is not black or white; good or bad unfortunately, but many shades of gray.
My two cents: I think, honestly, the Factitious Disorder imposed on a child is so painful for people to imagine - so by taking a stance of objectivity, that victim/martyr complex is investigated and critiqued, which piques people’s parasympathetic nervous systems, adrenaline, and defensive stances.
To get armchair psychoanalyst, people may be projecting their own experiences of childhood maltreatment or ab**e.
Gypsy was a victim from as far back as a few months old when it really started , when she told gypsy dad that gypsy was having breathing problems, and a few years later DeDe made gypsy get in that damn wheelchair after scraping her knee when she was riding on a motorcycle with a family member and he wrecked the motorcycle , gypsy just had skin scraped on her knee. , yes she was a victim of DeDe and if DeDe hadn’t been murdered I believe gypsy would be dead before now from all that medicine and let’s not forget more than 30 unnecessary surgeries and a freaking feeding tube she didn’t need and the pain she went through with just the feeding tube they don’t even put the patient to sleep for those painful tubes and not forget all the pain from 30 surgeries , it had for me to feel very much sympathy for a mother like DeDe . Sorry , but DeDe was an absolute fraud from start to end
Absolutely LOVE seeing Defense Diaries commenting through the Live!!! Makes me feel like I’m home. Great live tonight! Thank you for helping us all dissect such a complex situation that addresses the concerns and wins from one extreme side of thinking, all the way to the extreme opposite. Grateful for such a thought provoking analysis. What Gems you two are. ❤
Thank you for giving your professional information without bending to public desire.
Dr j you are one of the few willing to look at this on a deep dive so as to show more than one view and i for one appreciate the real talk on this.
As the mother of an autistic young man I live in fear of my son meeting someone like Gypsy. Not that I think he would ever kill anyone but he could be easily manipulated into other things, taking out phone contracts, financially abuse etc I doubt Nick Godejohn would ever had killed anyone if he had not met Gypsy.
Instead of prison imo he should have been in a mental hospital.
Same. I have two. One is 8 y.o, one is 26 y.o. I tell him this story as a warning about how some people in the world are not going to be trustworthy and can have very bad intentions. I completely understand the fear, you are not alone. So many of us parents of the Autistic community are being impacted by Nick’s story, and praying for him.
Omg yes I have the same fear .
It's not just the Gypsys.. It's a long complex story, and there's no way to truly explain the nuances briefly. But long story short, a relative of mine, @ a similar age to Nicholas, was charged with online grooming. He was caught up in, and hounded by 'a child' (Police Officer) on a task force, that were picking out adults chatting on online games.
The only thing that saved him from conviction, was that he didn't instigate the 'meet up' agreement, of which he was going to be 500km away at the time anyway, and there were text messages between he and a friend the whole time about 'this idiot pretending to be a child
In short, he knew the 'child' wasn't a child, but instead of ignoring them when they continued to message him, he 'played along' for shits & giggles.
Scary stuff!
All I have to say is that this is a good conversation. I appreciate it. Many victims of all kinds of abuse don’t like the story of an abuse victim abusing or murdering someone else (myself included). It seems unfair to those of us who suffered but didn’t act out in that horrible way. Thanks guys.
Because of this expert opinion and shared details, my impression of Gypsy and the situation has changed. I feel manipulated by Gypsy. TY Lauren and John.
I have commented a lot sooo I am new here & came across this channel due to someone commenting on maybe it was the law & crime network , they named your channel & how good it was.
So thank you to that person & also to Hidden True Crime, you have exceeded my expectations of the clarity & depth of your perspective on this case.
Much appreciated. 👍🏼from 🇦🇺
Thank you for visiting and learning and thank you to the person who commented
Why is it so hard for some to acknowledge Gypsy has a dark side? As they said many times the fact does not negate the fact she was abused. Plus, raised by her mother she must need so much therapy to unlearn all she was taught. She is both a victim and a murderer. I hope she gets the help she needs to break her mom’s curse and can finally live a happy and healthy life
I guess the one thing that bothers me most about Gypsy is that she hasn't taken responsibility for her actions:(
In your opinion, what would that look like?
Gypsy has repeatedly expressed remorse, she said her mother didn't deserve to die and wishes she had taken different actions to escape, while Gypsy was in prison she took multiple voluntary classes about taking accountability, she has said she wants to use her fame to help advocate for other victims, she served the prison sentence she was given, she said she is getting therapy. What more is she supposed to do to "take responsibility" in your eyes that she hasn't done already?
If you're referring to her placing blame on Nick. She explained that he was very controlling and abusive, (which was substantiated by his ex gf.) Gypsy feels like he took advantage of her in many ways including raping her so I can see why she wouldn't necessarily be in his corner fighting for his release. Even so, she did testify for the defense in his trial, other than that she didn't have any control or say in how his court case went. She has to live with the part she played in the murder, it isn't her responsibility to take on Nick's half too. He's responsible for his own actions, having autism doesn't excuse anything.
@@clariteymmmmm there’s texts about the grape. It’s part of the bdsm community
She then used that against him
@@HeatherSmith-np5kc um no,there's texts about BDSM but not the 8ape in its own context.
Gypsy rose is not a celebrity… just reminding a few people out there who are swooning over her new found celebrity status. She is the victim of a horrendous childhood and she is a convicted murderer. She’s told her story. Why is she walking the red carpets at different events?
Her story is complex. And yes it should raise awareness for other victims out there. But she is not a celebrity.
Dr John has never said that she wasn’t a victim. But he is explaining this is a highly complex situation and there is more to GR own narrative about what has happened. Her narrative seems to be. I’m a princess, I needed rescuing, my mum was evil a monster that needed to die. Now this is my happy ever after..
Gypsy Rose, it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.
I think GR can be summed up pretty easily. GR was abused, grew up to be an abuser.
I agree with everything Dr. John said! Your podcast is right on about Gypsy!! Very well done tonight!
I wanted to thank you both for both episodes of Gypsy Rose! This is why I love your channel. It feels like a class with a wise professor and I want Dr. john to know that I love all of his analysis! ❤
At the end of the day, IMO GR engaged in a con and murder as an adult. This does not negate the abuse she endured as a child, it just does not excuse her actions as an adult. Thank you, Dr. John, for your thoughts on this case.
Thank you for enriching my life. I learn so much. South Africa is crime ridden but we have mostly good and kiind people here❤ Understanding human behaviour has always been extremely important to me. I read a quote years ago when I was 16.. It said: "Rather than condemning human behaviour rather try to understand it." This quote has served me well as a teacher of teenagers from all over Africa. Thank you for your wonderful conversations and openess.
Fabulous! Dr. John you are absolutely amazing❤ I really enjoy listening to you. Lauren you are always on top of everything and that is incredible.
Kudos to you both on tackling this maddening case. Your bravery in the face of much criticism is evidence to me of your commitment to hidden truth! Keep it up and know that there r people out here questing with u.
I have a company and I do a lot of work with a company that is very similar to Make A Wish. Apparently Gypsy Rose was one of the first people they interviewed to be a wish child. This case is also close to home for me because I live right outside of New Orleans (in Slidell) and I have a lot of family in the same areas that they lived in. I don’t necessarily agree with everything I heard on the last video but I’m interested to hear what you guys have to say. This case has always been very interesting to me, so I’m trying to listen with an open mind. I love hearing everyone’s opinions. 💜
Yes I remember her pictures. She was viewed as a "celebrity" even then. I remember the Mardi Gras parade where she got to meet the Bachus of the time, this had to be 2003 or 2005 ish. Actor Sean Astin was the Bachus. I may be mixing up some pictures (this feels like a lifetime ago. Holy hell!) but she got to meet some of the "Lord of the Rings" actors, as well as all sorts. It was crazy for me when she got in the news for murdering her mother and then finding out her entire life was phony and megs level fraud, bc I remember some of her MAW photos. This is still haunting. DeeDee managed to bamboozle everyone!!
@@TheCandiceWang I remember that!! The whole thing is 😵💫😬🤯
@@sweetnsalty4602 wow is there any footage?
Thank you, John and Lauren, for this discussion. You put words to what has always bothered me about this case. I was never able to think of Gypsy Rose as a pure victim, and I was ashamed of that.
Great live!!! I had to dip out but I was able to listen to the rest. You guys are doing a great job. You are the gold standard in my opinion…. I've been in true crime for 10 years and I re you guys are doing a great job. You are the gold standard in my opinion and I really respect the work that you put in. You guys aren’t just guessing on Facts and I really respect the work that you put in. You guys aren’t just guessing on facts!
Big respect for dr John’s nuanced approach to advocacy. It’s not easy and you guys are so graceful, worthy of your platform!
Not saying this is what you’re doing but I’m so glad to see a deeper and opposite perspective of this case!
Lots of people have had horrific childhoods and may go on to comment crimes but not many get excused for what they did because of their past! Not many would become popular/celebrity for the murder of their mother!
I would ask everyone to think perhaps it could become addictive or enjoyable to be able to have full attention from others, sympathies, kindness, trips to Disney etc (which I think well deserved for sick children) however knowing you haven’t actually got the worry/stress because you know your child or yourself isn’t sick basically it really is just a scam! A scam to get sympathy, to get free things/money, to get attention and gypsy was part of that scam when she was older.
I don’t think we should ignore her abuse but not think she’s free of sin just because of her childhood abuse!
Big thank you Lauren and Dr John for daring to talk about this xxxx
I’ve been watching you guys for a long time and I have to say this is one of my favorite breakdowns of Dr. John’s. I LOVE literature breakdowns and comparisons to real life scenarios because it forces you to think about what we experience differently. In our modern world it’s easy to get caught up in the less “deep” explanation, but the truth is things often tend to be much more complex than just a surface simple level of an explanation. Thank you for this 🫶🏻
Thank you for the analysis. I agree most criminal acts are complex. I do think no-one can never tell what could happen when people are pushed beyond their limitations. Our human survival instinct doesn’t always follow known guidelines. Dr John thank you again.
@HTC, You both run this channel with the best of intentions, and you have never failed to bring those intentions to fruition! I am hoping that you do not change any aspect of your intentions, because of unkind words and ill-intentioned deeds to poison the confidence of another person, which could cause you to stumble; with your intention to bring clarity and not confusion to any situation. I am thankful to see you both rise with honor; instead of meeting these people's unkindness with disrespect. You have gained the respect of your Gems, because of your hard hard work in vetting the facts of what you share. Thankfullness is given for all that you both do to make The Hidden Truth; no longer hidden. You both bring your integrity and shine into a light to be proven as true and transparent. Keep up the good work, because it is seen and appreciated.
I used to be a therapist in a prison and I agree with Dr John’s assessment. It’s such a complex topic but you two handled it well.
Thanks! Love from Prairie Village, Kansas. I listen to your Podcasts while I walk my dogs or spend time on the treadmill. Your discussions distract me from my exercise and fulfill my intellectual curiosity.
This means so much to us and we are honored you listen. Thank you for your support!
It seems to me that Gypsy had a lot of extra time away from her mother during the evening hours. She had time to have a full blown relationship with several men, eat what she wanted and access to opioids to form an addiction. Why didn’t she utilize this time to get ahold of her father or authorities? Sometimes I wonder if she was knowingly involved with the fraudulent scheme. I do feel badly for her because she was given no choice as a child. I feel that she was eased into her role. Still, until she stands up and takes responsibility for her actions then she has no chance at forming any real relationships. Everything in her life will eventually spiral out of control. She is as much to blame as Nick, maybe even more. Nick doesn’t carry the mental mentality to make good decisions, hence why he was still living at home with his mother. It’s a sad situation and no one is a hero
Bingo, towards he end of the one documentary, she said she should have picked up the phone and called her dad!😮 I am like, girl, bye! That’s all it would have taken and both she and her father admitted that! Unreal! She had an option!
Exactly
That's what i think Gypsy was afraid of. Exposure. Exposure of her scam, her fraud.she was always aware some fraud was happening and as she aged she took deeper part in it. How would she get out of her situation without facing culpability?
@@didirobert3657 I remember hearing so many stories of abused kids in awful situations with horrible parents escaping and contacting the authorities! Ruby Frank's son comes to mind. He was only 12.
So not doing anything was a choice by Gypsy, at least to some degree. She had opportunities if she truly just wanted to escape. Her mom was in bad health before her murder and I do truly believe she was not in fear for her life the way she claims. It wasn't *enough* for GR to simply run away with Nick. She had to enact revenge.
Agree 💯
I’m amazed that the “hex” hasn’t been talked about until you two!
Thank you for this insightful session!
Thank you both for bringing another perspective to such a sad case! I love having my first impressions & biases challenged. And the reminder that multiple things can be true at the same time…Gypsy was no doubt a victim, but maybe she also became a monster? Idk, but love finding the hidden motivations. Well done!
this episode is amazing!! 👍👍👍
I absolutely love your channel. I really appreciate your wisdom and insight. I learn so much from both of you. Thank you for your honesty in the analysis that you share with us. Please keep sharing the truth instead of what people are only willing to hear. We need the truth. You are both such mentors for me.
Dr John coming out swinging with Shakespeare! What a great intro to this topic. Thanks for this super in depth discussion. I've always felt very conflicted about Gypsy and those feelings have only intensified as I've seen bits of her tour. I remember watching that moment when she says her mothers last words were "don't hurt me" and I sort of shook them off as "don't hurt me" in an emotional sense given I felt it lacked context. The newer information definitely makes that moment much more suspect. You and Lauren bring up some really thought provoking questions regarding her culpability and the comparison to Lori Vallow Daybell has given me more to chew on. Thank you again for everything you do and all of the work that goes into this!
Lauren and John, I wish I was a fly on the wall during your personal discussions about these cases! I appreciate and love your videos😀
Soooo appreciate your analysis. Her post-release interviews left me knowing things are off. Great to look at all sides of the story and not simply fall for the victim story.
This is heavy. There is so much I want to thank you for. Working together you have tools from journalism and psychology. It makes you organized, creative and relevant reporting on crime. Sometimes as a bonus feature I feel like a voyeur seeing and hearing snippets of your married life Hope you do not mind. And Lauren: Live long and prosper!
Absolutely agree about shining light as opposed to staying/being in darkness. This podcast was a huge catalyst to so much thought. Thank you both!
Gypsy is a product of her mother...and I do hope and pray she can get the help she truly needs!...It's going to be ongoing for the rest of her life and hope she stays honest with herself and others in the process...because that's what it's going to take if she wants to keep her freedom! It's her journey and hope she makes the best of it from her on! Thank you Lauren and Dr John, for this podcast and great insight! Love digging deep and getting this twisted mess to make a little more sense!
Yes
❤ I hope after her book tour she can get out of the spotlight because that can't be helpful long term.
Thank you, John & Lauren! I was confused while watching the HBO documentary when I heard Gypsy say the last thing her mother said to her was, “don’t hurt me “. That statement seemed to come out of nowhere and I thought I had lost some of the plot. The documentary didn’t explore the topic of possible violence committed by Gypsy besides her plotting her mother’s murder.
Fantastic live tonight. Question for Dr. John: In her interrogation Gypsy starts off lying. The detective is pushing her for "why." At one point she crumples and she drops her prepared story. She says, "My mom had legal papers drawn up saying I was incompetent." The detective doesn't know what she's saying and pushes her to talk about Nick. This seemed to me to be the moment where we could have gotten closer to the "why," had the detective understood what she was saying. I feel like she was talking about how trapped she felt and like there was no other way out. Is that not the case in your opinion?
I feel really bad for Nick. Gypsy Rose doesn’t care about what’s happening to him. When Nick is mentioned she’s very dismissive. She actually says something to the effect of well Nick will just have to deal with his sentence. She only cares about herself and I feel really sorry for her husband. Not sure he knows what he’s got himself in to!!
I do pray that Nick does not have to serve a life sentence, Gypsy is just as responsible for this murder is Nick and she’s getting out in eight or nine years? Is that fair? NO!
I missed this. Maybe She was under the impression they knew her whole story?
You feel bad for Nick?! A violent offender who never should’ve been paroled to begin with, who SA’d Gypsy Rose the night he killed her mother. Do you work for his Defense team, or something? If not, God help us all. Hope for humanity lost with all your r[CENSORED BY TH-cam]pe apologism. If he ever gets out, what he does next is gonna be on your conscience… assuming you even have one.
The guardianship papers were never filed with the courts. In the medical records they are asked for multiple times and NEVER presented.
All she had to do was present them and they would have had to verify.
I agree with Dr John! Nothing justifies abuse… nothing. And nothing justifies bad behavior regardless of your background. It may explain things but it doesn’t justify it. As Dr Phil says, you have zero % responsibility for what happens to you as a child but 💯 responsibility for what you do with it as an adult. Personal accountability! I’m with you Dr! 🙌🏼
This episode was so profound.
Thank you for this high level presentation. So rich with wisdom Quotes from MacBeth were stunning.
Are you guys going to do a follow up on this with aspects from the medical records and just general information/behaviors that have been seen since this video? ❤
This whole story of gypsy is just wild. I was very surprised at how high functioning gypsy was in private vs. her public persona. Despite her lack of education and life experiences she had the ability to fully manipulate and execute a plan for murder. She is very savvy despite the little girl voice and the horror of the abuse she suffered.
It’s important to understand that Gypsy was never aloof or uneducated. Quite the opposite, she is well read and spoken. She is like a Paris Hilton, playing the dumb girl for attention but incredibly manipulative for her own good.
Dr John your analysis is mind blowing. Thank you for preparing it.
Thankyou so much for covering this case, and truthfully! It's been mentally frustrating reading people's comments on TikTok and other social media platforms, putting Gypsy on a pedestal like she's a hero or celebrity of sorts...not realizing what this could do to her psyche.
I think it may be difficult for some to see GRB as anything more than a victim. I am so glad you are elucidating her true manipulative agency in setting this murder in planning and action. Personally, I feel she needed to receive a much longer sentence. She's also being managed behind the scenes imo as to portray her as a social media sensation. Appreciate you!
I could listen to Dr. John for hours. I could even listen to him reading Shakespear. Please do!
This is the best take on the GRB case that ive watched. Bravo!
I've known about Gypsy's case for years, I remember when she was on Dr. Phil, but I don't think I really watched it, at least not so intensely that I remember. I'm sure I saw a good few Dateline type shows. Then I watched The Act when it first came out, and it got me diving in a little bit here on YT. My running thought was always "Omg, this poor baby! This evil witch, omg!" then "Oh... she knows she can walk? And eat? And she does? And she ran away and came back? And she's living an entire life of her own, separate from her mother online? This is getting more gray..." followed by "You're telling me Gypsy's spending 3 years dangling this carrot in front of the horses nose with Nick... it was all her idea, and he didn't want to, and actually said no and gave reasonable alternatives (we'll run far away where no one can find us) and Gypsy said no, you have to unalive her for me to be my knight in shining armor"???? Okay, well that changes things. I think a lot of people who are just starting to consume all of this case history at once can't see the nuances as much, because it is a lot of information to take in at once!
Something I don't remember, whether it's just not something I saw or remembered, or if it's something that wasn't totally out there and readily available; ❓️ We know about the physically violent incident when she was 19 after running away; do we know that the physical violence continued after it started? Or was this more of an isolated incident? Also, do we know what was happening with the medical ab*se in her adult years; after the 19yo running away situation, through 23 when this happened? Were there more surgeries or anything happening or planned?❓️
I think the fact that her story changes over time and she's unwilling to take responsibility says everything I need to know. She's still manipulating her story. I agree with everything you said.
You two are masters of the nuaces that really create these cases. Thank you for insisting upon nuance instead of oversimplifying.
It just occurred to me-maybe DeeDee started becoming physical when Gypsy aged up and started lashing out violently. So the new physical abuse was, ironically, self defense. DeeDee realized she had gone too far and was now scared of Gypsy. Thanks again.
Hey there,
Nuanced detailed analysis. Hold your ground on not being pushed into narratives that do not ring true to you. It’s so valuable to me. Thankyou John and Lauren
Your coverege has been the most thoughtful and informative deep dive into the hidden motives of this complex crime.
Lauren and Dr. John always research these cases as much as possible, even obtaining sources that most people can’t or won’t take the time to get. Opinion is one thing we are all entitled to but thank God there are people like Lauren and Dr. Matthias who do all the work necessary to bring this discussion to TH-cam. God Bless.
It's so hard to find anyone willing to face the complexity and nuance of life. I appreciate that you are addressing it head-on. We all need to accept that it's ok to learn from new evidence and other perspectives.
These analyses Dr. John is doing on this case are so spot on and important.
I haven’t always agreed with everything he has said on other cases but I think he is so insightful on this. Thank you as I’m sure they are very time consuming.
Thank you dearest Lauren & Dr John. 💞
Could Physical Abuse be ''By Proxy' I wonder.
Ie Regarding Gypsy's many Medical Procedures causing physical pain? 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08 1:49:08
Can Gypsie be expected to think & rationalise normally - after her abuse?
Dr John's mind works differently to ours, due to his work as a Forensic Psychologist - his Clinical mind. Lauren as a Reporter also looks at Crime differently.
- How lucky we are to know, that they both have caring hearts 🥰
I am thankful that you both share your Professions & compliment one another 💞
Thank you, Steph at New South Wales, Australia 🌺💖🌺💖
I always appreciate that Dr. John is taking a measured and realistic approach to any case he's reviewing. Thank you & Happy Birthday Lauren!