The Real Reason Why Targaryen's Marry Brother To Sister 😨
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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Did you know in the books there is a reason why Targaryen's marry brother to sister? This short uses evidence from A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance with Dragons and The Winds of Winter.
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If Viserys was smart he should have installed Rhaenyra as Queen while he was still living to ease the transition, especially since he saw how combative the family was getting at dinner. Viserys was pretty much the downfall for the Targaryen dynasty.
He sucks so hard. He was so weak and a complete pushover. Rhaenys shouldve been queen instead of him.
RBG should have retired when she could be replaced by Obama, but people don't like to give up positions of power.
@@JennianaCross omg I had the same thought when I read that comment. I loved RBG but her unwillingness to do the right thing really angers me bc look where we are now.
Or respected the precedent the 101AC Council set - the same one that got him elected.
@@Ashley-mq2vdThe best thing RGB ever did was hold onto power
The fact that someone wrote a book that is making us argue that A father should have married his teenage daughter to her uncle instead of her cousin is...a thing 😅
You're so right!! 😂 Props to GRRM!
Then you remember the uncle is already married. 😢
Let's not introduce to the history that inspired it 😂.
Well that’s history my friend.
As if it's not happening in real life rn.
i 100% believe the tradition started because dragons originally come from some human animal hybrid blood magic fuckery, and when they mention Targaryens having the "blood of the dragon" its quite literal, and if they interbred with other bloodlines for a few generations they might lose their ability to bond with dragons
They will definitely. We learn that with the Dragon seed. Some were so diluted they ended up dead when they tried to claim one. But on the same note, first time non-inbred are hinted to be strong dragonriders. So they have to walk into a fine line of interbreeding to keep the gift of riding dragons and adding new blood from time to time.
@@Alejojojo6 hence the willingness for rheagar to marry a Martell. they had a few generations of inbreeding, married out of the family and planned to their children to each other as to restart the cycle of inbreeding.
Visenya Targaryen was believed to be a sorceress that practiced blood magic, which is heavily frowned upon in Westeros due to the Faith of the Seven being the dominant religion. They did have an issue with the Faith Militant uprising and became more tolerant to appease them. But this was at the cost of whatever magic Visenya knew concerning "blood of the dragon" and whether magic was supposed to be involved as well or if genetics was enough.
@@Alejojojo6 Which is odd because if you believe the Hull brothers were Corlys's bastards and not Laenor's (which I did until just now, bc he was presumed to be gay), they were not of Targaryen blood. Corlys, as a Velaryon, would have some very watered down Targ blood but until he married Rhaenys, his direct line hadn't had a Targaryen ancestor since before Aegon the Conqueror (whereas the Targs had a Velaryon ancestor - King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne's mother, Alyssa (while Rhaenys was 1/4 Baratheon, 3/4 Velaryon, and 1/4 Targaryen by way of her mother, Alyssa's daughter with Rogar Baratheon, and her father, Aemon, whose parents were both 1/2 Targ and 1/2 Velaryon by way of their mother, the same Alyssa). (you prob know all of that - it's just me doing the math outside of my head.)
So Addam bonding with Seasmoke is probably the best evidence that Laenor WASN'T gay in the books and that they WERE his bastards (which also then turns about and lends more legitimacy to Rhaenyra's boys being Laenor's trueborn sons).
😂😂😂😂 zoophilia
He forgot the most important part: Keeping the Ancient Blood Magic alive that enabled the Dragonlords to hatch & bond with their Dragons
But you don't know if that is true. They may just say it to be able to practise incest. Also, coz they don't want their dragons in the hands of different houses. But once the other houses marry them, they could've easily made their spouses conform to Targaryan traditions. And if they go against those traditions, their marriage can be null and void or something. Idk I feel like the whole incest children having stronger Valyrian magic thing is just an excuse.
@@happilyevernever4289 It makes sense if it was Valyrian blood magic (or if they THOUGHT it was Valyrian blood magic). The more diluted the blood becomes, the more they'd (potentially) lost control of their dragons (their greatest weapon/asset/resource/identity of their house).
The problem with marrying Allicent was that Otto specifically intended to usurp. Aemma was an Arryn.
Aemma was also 1/4 Targaryen. Her mother, Daella was half-Targaryen. Daella's brother was Baelon Targaryen, who was the father of Viserys. So Aemna and Viserys were first cousins. That's also why Aemma had the silver-blonde hair and purple eyes.
@@ashleymyrick842 but even then, you’re just kicking back the goalpost. Plenty of targs have had children with non targs, including Aemma’s own mother to no negative outcome. Hell, Dorne was won by marriage.
@@TheseUseless
Not even that, Viserys just decided to change things on a whim. If Baelon lived, be would've been the heir, as Aegon should've been
Whos mother was a targaryen.
@@thalmoragent9344eso es lo que a mi me da rabia e ira.que si un hijo de Emma viviera rainira jamás habría sido considerada heredera
All this talk of "blood purity" just sounds better than "we don't want to share our money with other families."
More like “we don’t want to share our flying medieval nukes with you”
@@evanf.4801 That, too. Greed for power is worse than for money.
@@JennianaCross imagine all noble houses getting those nukes and there might be a chance Targaryen king himself/herself wouldn't have it and face rebellion....they don't even have an army. So their interest isn't called greed for power, but preservation....but they couldn't keep it for long even after their so called blood purity. I think they got rescued from doom of Valeria just to be unimportant cannon fodders for the great grand scheme of lord of light to reproduce prince that was promised and be done with this family lol
@@JennianaCrossi mean what do they get with their power? money... lol.
i don’t disagree with you, but there were many targaryen’s that show how dangerous and detrimental meddling with the power of dragons is, to their own house and others around them. now imagine if just any noble family had access to that power. it’s also just good military strategy. the conqueror couldn’t have made 6 kingdoms submit without dragons. and i doubt the houses would stay submissive if they had the opportunity to conquer the same way the targs did. like he says the targtowers are perfect example of this. even not being far removed, their loyalties did not lie within their own house(and to be fair i think not wanting to share your money sounds way better morally than not wanting to intermingle with “impure blood”😬 but unfortunately that was a big motivation especially at the end when there were no dragons to pass on)
Viserys really failed his duty.
He was the one who was supposed to marry Laena (she was a child so it was wrong but it was part of their tradition) then humiliated the Velaryon by not marrying her but marrying Alicent instead (also a child). He refused to give Rhaenyra to Daemon because he thought Daemon only wanted the crown (no dance of the dragon would have happen if Rhaenyra and Daemon were married since the start as they loved each other). Otto, as vicious as he was, was smart enough to tell Viserys to marry Rhaenyra to Aegon, so Rhaenyra would keep her claim as heir and Aegon would still be king which would have contempted Alicent, Otto and Rhaenyra, preventing once again the dance of the dragons, yet he refused.
Then he chosed to marry Rhaenyra to her gay cousin who couldn't give her children (meaning she had no choice but to have bastards) so it'd appease the Velaryon household as he didn't marry Laena.
Proceeded to literally ignore is children, let Otto and Alicent do whatever they wanted and didn't even established Rhaenyra as Queen when he was alive so there'd be no question about who's the rightful heir...
Mercy only bring new stories within grief, angust and tragedy. Nonetheless from his descendants, born an dominating warrior until the prince of promise
the only thing i dont agree with is her having no choice but to have bastards. she did not have to fuck half of the court and pop out bastards and THEN pretend as if they arent as such. in no way did she have ‘no choice’ in that situation.
@@popmmog-7 "fuck half of the court and pop out bastards" bro she slept with Cole when she was young and then when she grew up she was with Harwin and all her bastards are from Harwin only...Her husband couldn't get it hard because he was so grossed out by women, what could she do?
If you want to talk about "fucking half of the court", there's plenty of kings or princes that did so...
And her not naming her sons as heir would be the biggest sign that they're bastards (everyone knew but it'd have been a confirmation from the mother). Considering the fact that bastards were beheaded, we can all understand why she pretended they weren't bastards lmao
@@popmmog-7hmm having sex with one person = half the court? Interesting
Alicent was definitely not a child when she married. She was 18 and book Viserys was 27, Laena was 12 in both the book and the show.
If you think about it, maybe it's better this way, can you imagine that in Roberth's rebellion the Targaryens would have fraternized with the other families of Westeros and allowed them to have dragon eggs that would hatch? It would literally be a nuclear war.
roberts own grandmother was a targaryen
There were no Dragon eggs left in Westeros fleeing roberts rebelkion. None mentioned anyways
@@YourGraceMyLady yes there were. It was stated that there were some In summerhall and that Dragonstone had a few as well
@@YourGraceMyLadyThere were eggs left. Just none that actually hatch a dragon. When Illyrio gifts Daenerys her 3 dragon eggs. Illyrio says "The centuries have turned them to stone. But they will always remain beautiful." So after the dragons died out, the remaining eggs became little more than trinkets worth a lot of money.
idk where but it was mentioned that there were some dragoneggs remaining on dragonstone and in the ruins of summerhall
@@YourGraceMyLady
It is said that the blood of the First Men carry magic like Warging and Greensight. Jon is half Targeryen half First Men. Imagine if he could warg into a dragon. He will be the strongest Dragon Rider ever. Everyone thinks he will ride Rhaegal, but I think he will end up riding the Cannibal. There's a theory that Cannibal could be native to Westeros, not one of Valeryen dragons, hence his hostility towards them. Jon's got Westerosi Magic and Valeryen Magic in his blood. He seems the perfect candidate for the Cannibal.
The Cannibal was probably long dead by the time Jon was born.
Even if the cannibal was still alive I don’t think it would be in the best shape to threaten armies.
Cannibal would be utterly useless at this point in time, too large and lazy to fly most likely, much like Balerion. If he was still alive. Rhaegal makes much more sense, symbolically and simply by practicality
@@maximem7751 Nope. He doesn't die in the civil war. He's one of the last few remaining. We never learn what happened to the Sheepstealer, Silverwing, Morning and The Cannibal.
@@NortonjawX Balerion only got weaker after it's trip to Valyria. It got severely wounded. After this they put it in Dragon Pit, where it began to waste away.
Yes Viserys made the mistake of trusting the Hightowers without questioning the motive first.
It was sad that he didn’t see how he messed up his daughter’s friendship, dude only wanted more kids and couldn’t even tell his crazy ass wife was making his life a mess (people even warned him of the color green) and making his “only child” unhappy, he’s useless, he kept making bad choices , and he had her marry her gay cousin thinking he could give her kids, knowing the uncle was inlove with her ( he even said he’ll give up everything for her, he asked for her hand) but all he kept thinking that his wanted the crown but his brother was kind to him, he was way too into himself. He caused the downfall of the kingdom being blind.
Viserys wasn't blind, but he just refused to see the plotting of those closest to him for he just wanted his family to not fight each other and that didn't turn out well.
The Dance of Dragons Civil War was bound to happen by lust for power and their centuries of incest.
He questioned their motives but Larys proved the opportunity for them to weasel back in...
I guessed it had something to do with bloodlines when Drogon smelled Jon Snow and he was able to ride dragons
I understand targaryens doing that in westeros because they are the only remaining family that ride Dragons, but back in the old Valyria were lived several Dragonlords family i think they are Just wird
Greedy is what it is. "We don't want Other Families to get their paws on our family fortune."
The other Valarian families didn't like each other at all. There was a lot of conflict if I remember correctly
@@JennianaCross
Precisely
@@MeganAllen1738 that’s never explicitly stated.
They married only among the 40 dragon families but because they are just 40, in 500 years, they are all related.
I also read once that the reason why they always married within the family was because “the blood of the blood” always seemed to be attracted to other people with “blood of the dragon”. As if that small piece of flying furnace was drawn to things familiar to itself.
Dragons are attracted to other dragons type of scenario.
It’s probably not correct, but I thought it interesting.
It’s not just the Greens of course. Rhaenyra’s mother was a (Targaryen mothered) Arryn. And Rhaenys’ children are Valeryons who were even given dragon eggs despite not being Targaryens (I assume because Good Queen Alysanne urged Jahaerys to allow it in memory of their son, Prince Aemon, Rhaenys’ father).
Hell one could argue (and by “one” I mean “the Greens”) that Rhaenyra’s Valeryon children are more of an external usurpation by another House than the patrilineal Targaryens that Alicent bore Viscerys. And that’s even before bringing up the name “Strong”.
Honestly all this would've been solved if Viserys just named Daemon as heir. Yeah he has his glaring issues but you can't say House Targaryen wouldn't come out stronger. A King Daemon I wouldn't take shit from anyone.
Personally i think making either daemon would have been best and marry rhaenyra to him its all done ur only child is safe and there is no one in both essos or westeros who can challenge daemon he will burn them to crisp yes there will be some other challenges but targs would be secure for ages
and no one could have questioned his legitimacy atleast and marry him to rhaenaera would have given them legitimate heirs...later raenaera and daemon's kids could have married Alicent's children or grandchildren...the pure lineage would have continued and eventually everyone could have been satisfied
@@piya6929 I don't want to put it all on King Viserys I but clearly 50% of the Dance mainly happened because of the choices he made and didn't make.
@@NRV0 i only blame it on him cause he led to it unintentionally...the other people involved all have their own motivations and ambitions to make the choices they make...the others do what they do for the throne.. with Vicerys it just feels like he had no motivation to not do all that he didn't do
@@piya6929 I put him at 50% for more or less for what you said. He not the only person who lead to the Dance, as other people and other factors had a hand in that conflict as well. King Jaehaerys passing over Princess Rhaenys, Otto and Alicent scheming, Princess Rhaenyra having bastards, etc etc.
For King Viserys part, he just did things that help the conflict to bloom. I'm personally a black supporter, as I believe the King word is law over any established "perceived law" but him naming a woman as his heir pissed people off. And when he refused to see when that woman had children, who were clearly bastards, in the line of succession he just doomed his house to conflict.
Him choosing to remarry and passing over his brother are other things he did that planted future issues as well.
He messed up bad sleeping with the help
✔️
😂
somehow everyone seem to forget that the greens are "targaryen" too. they are no less of "pure" blood than their "arryn" halfsistet. the problem was that viserys neither did anything to support his daugther nor did anything to bridge the gap between his children until it was far too late.
not marrying again would have been an easier solution but in a medieval society having no spars for the heir wouldnt have been wise either.
I think it's more about another house having influence over Targaryen children and changing traditions. For example the question of faith. When Alicent was praying to the Seven, all the Greens prayed along, while the Blacks awkwardly sat around. As a Hightower Alicent raised her children in her faith contrary to the Valyrian faith. They are Targaryens, but with the social influence of another house, they are different. More westerosi and less valyrian.
@@ksb3829 that is more of viserys fault (aka his lacking parental skills) than caused to the circumstance that viserys married simeine from another house.
@@ksb3829y quien les iba a enseñar la fe de valiria,ni viseris no su familia se preocuparon por ellos,
@@ksb3829yeah when she said Valyrian traditions were gross basically but then married her children to each other as soon as they came of age.
@@ksb3829I think by this point in their history the Targaryens no longer follow a Valyrian religion and are probably not very religious even when they adopted the Faith.
The problem was not marrying Alicent. Many non Targaryen houses married into the Targaryen. Velaryon, Arryn, Blackwood, Martell, Rogarre, Dayne. Rhaenyra herself had Arryn blood. The problem is that he refused to marry Rhaenyra and Aegon. Visenya and Aegon were married against their will for a reason, when the eldest daughter is the firstborn, she is married to the eldest brother, to avoid conflict.
The reason targaryens are marrying brother/sister and aunts, uncle's, nieces and nephews, is because of limited Targaryens available. In old valyria, there were many powerful families with dragon riding genes, there was no need to follow that tradition as both families will have those genes. And usually people from a family, region continue to grow in numbers as years pass. There should be highborn people in old valyria that have those genes.
I always had this doubt, the Targaryens and Velaryeons that survived the doom, why didn't they start to repopulate themselves. They could marry among themselves, a Targaryen to a Velaryeon, siblings etc, and in the next generation the cousins all have the same dragon riding genes, all being Targaryen. This way they could increase their numbers and settle or conquer a region. I assume even in our world, early humans breed among themselves or within tribes as migration, travel and survival was not easy, this certainly increased the population. This way the Targaryens could just stick to marrying cousins and later on only a pure breed Targaryen.
I assume, the people who survived the Doom and Aegon didn't want to create problems within themselves when they have large family members. There was the war between his children caused by Maegor. Even though the Hightowers were an outside house that caused the dance we shouldn't forget the war and destruction caused by Maegor, he killed his nephews and forcefully took his niece. Maybe the constant war among the Targaryens and their bastards too, didn't help to increase their numbers and after the dragons gone it was much easier to defeat them with their few numbers during Roberts rebellion.
I thought that as well they could just marry cousin.
The clip is right the Targaryens didn’t want to many houses have the dragon riding genes especially if the women married outside the family.
Not to mention there was house Celtigar a lesser house but still of Valyrian descent
Not entirely true
The Targs and Velaryons mostly kept to themselves in the centuries before invading Westeros. Maybe they just thought their small island homes don't have enough space? They did only had a small army when they invaded.
Makes me wonder though if those people living in Dragonstone and Driftmark before conquest were also Valyrians but just happened to be commoners so they don't have family names and stuff and eventually just dissolved into the Westerosi gene pool.
@@nunyabiznes33 it’s literally said that house Targaryen moved there 13 years before the doom and Velaryons and Celtigars moved 100 years later before the doom.
Lol what? Alicent's children aren't Hightowers but Targayrians. Targayrians did wed from other houses and still produced Targayrian children. Even Rhaenyra's own mother was half targayrian and half arryn. Her name was Aemma Arryn, not Targayrian. Targayrian tried to avoid wedding their princesses to other houses because it gave that house Targayrian blood (capacity to ride dragons) under another house's name. That was the case with Rhaenys wedding into Velaryons. All her children were dragon riders but they were also Velaryon. So just by wedding Rhaenys to another house, Targayrians had to deal with Velaryons in possession of 3 dragons.
"Incest is in fact wincest."
Valyrian proverb
But taking a wife from another house doesn’t give that house any power…it just dies them to your house. Giving a dragon riding daughter to another house is what leads to the desolution of power. This is all besides the point though, because this “solution” also leads to a disproportionate number of crazies in the Targaryen family tree.
0:10 Ah yes, I row my dragon quite often.
Old Valyria sounds like a kind of dystopia of its own.
How? They were absolutely unopposed and controlled most of the known world.
@@evanf.4801it can still be a dystopia, either due to how it was built or because facing no opposition can lead to corruption and decadence.
@@monicabellu9566 dystopia for others, not for valyrians.
@@evanf.4801 it can also be a dystopia for them, dystopia doesn't mean being conquered
Yeah, it's not so much about keeping the blood pure it's about making sure only a few have it. Look at the dragon seeds. Some of them only have a possible Targaryen ancestor so the second a baby is born in another family with that magical blood it's a danger.
And if another family like starks or blackwoods marry/have children its more danger eg. bloodraven and jon snow(i am a beliver of r+l=j)
@@maulikjain48 Exactly great examples as always.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 well i am now a bit intrigued did brackens have any of these powers of some sort cuz the blackwoods do and if the brackens have some too it would be awesome cuz maybe this rivalry is more historical and magical than a poisoned tree and rumoued kingship
@maulikjain48 That is an interesting thought. I hope so, the Brackens don't get nearly as much love as the Blackwoods, and even if they didn't have any magic, they should at this point. Because I think according to Lord Blackwood by the point of the main books, they have tried so many times to end the feud through marriage that they're all related to each other.
@@aegorbittersteel2154 if i remeber correctly there has been few marriages b/w the houses but they fail due to some or the other reason and ig brackens is less recognised and if they are then only due to bitterstell and the fued in HOTD for rhaenyras hand else I too know very less about them but I know quite some things about backwoods both due too bloodraven(which is a pretty cool character) and also due to their loyalty to targaryens. but honestly I would love to have a magical braken like maybe when dany and jon become monarchs they split riverlands and make it 8 kingdoms ? or give brackens the iron islands cuz historically the kingdom of rivers and isles was broken up by targs only so maybe brackens get a claim anyway just give both houses something to work with goddammit they have long fued now give them peace and imagine if griff turns out to be a blackfyre(and ik u wont like this) but gets killed in his failed rebellion then maybe the rest of the golden company turn to a braken support unit
Something I’ve noticed about the saying “the blood of the dragon MUST stay pure”, is that it holds true in some cases. Dany with Khal Drogo ended in tragedy. Rhaenyra with Ser Strong ended in tragedy. Viserys with Aemma ended in tragedy. Rhaegar with Lyanna Stark ended in tragedy. It seems that one way or another, Targaryens lose their loved ones or their children when they have children outside of their own bloodline. Perhaps it is a curse or contingency from Old Valyrian laws related to blood magic. Who can say? And it was all probably lost to time.
My suprise that The Old Valyeria Targaryen didn't practice breeding with non family members because the Targaryen was one family with limited members and more people having the ability to fly dragons, which are like Nukes that win wars more easier Dragon Seeds people born that are only half Targaryen not fully Targaryen
And how come Targaryen don't Suffer from inbreeding like disease member families like the families of Royal back in middle ages the famous explained is the Hansburgs
So either some sort of magic stops these affects as the ancient Valerian mages were like mage geneticist or inbreeding affects do happen which causes the random Targaryn madness as well as some being born reptilian. Maybe they also bred outside there blood enough for it to only rarely be
their blood contains magic of old valyria which gives them great beauty of purple eyes and silver hair smtg like that i think
I think the implication that some Targaryens go mad is related to the inbreeding. Also Daenerys' baby Rhaego and Rhaenyra's baby Visenya were both born with lizard-like physical characteristics and neither of them survived birth. This could also be related to inbreeding.
They kind of do. They have very odd and grotesque stillborns and have a madness that plagues some of them. Plus their is a legitimate reason why the practice exists with the magic in their blood they need to keep in the family. The only thing the inbreeding doesn’t do is make the living ones deformed and ugly.
@@psychedelicpegasus7587more likely its a magical diciese related to the blood magic that binds dragons to the blood pf old valyria, I doubt it has anything to do with inbreeding, the sigs would havebeen far vaster if that was the case
I don't think so marrying alicent was a mistake because before dance of dragons Targaryens have married into other houses. And I believe main reason for the dance of dragon was viserys because he was able to see what was happening around him. He never loved and supported his children by Alicent. He only cared about rhaenerya and her children. He was blinded to her mistakes. That was reason for civil war because love is death of duty.
But those houses married back into House Targian. Aemma Arryn, Raynese Barathon mother. They go out then go right back in.
Yeah but if you noticed, alicent is obsessed with rhaenyra's deeds yet her son aegon, does the exact same things rhaenyra did. She believes rhaenyra shouldn't be queen because of these deeds yet with her son, she doesn't even seen to notice her contradicting attitude, she does exactly what viserys did for rhaenyra. At the end of the day, rhaenyra was named his heir. The Hightowers legit stole her throne.
His main mistake was that Rhae was his favorite child but didn't do anything to bolster her claim. He should have called the lords once more to pledge their allegiance. By the start of the Dance many of the lords that pledged to teen Rhae would have already died so this is also a way to renew those houses' loyalty.
He could have also married her to Aegon, improving her claim and also protecting his children with Alicent from Daemon.
@@Mr50403I think the Hightowers have married into the Targs before but not sure if they've done the in and out breedig dance you mentioned. I know one of Maegor's queens was a Hightower but as we all know, he didn't left any children of his own.
@@nunyabiznes33 The women have the Dragon power. Jaherys ruined his daughters which ultimately ruined the power of the dragons. I think Rhegar thought the Martel woman could give him dragon hatching and riding children due to her targ blood.
Could have sworn it was Aegon Targaryen, not Aegon Hightower. How silly of me!
Are we just ignoring that they also did that with the Arryns, the Baratheons and the Valaryons? The Valaryons had 3 dragon riders. Rhaenys's mother was a Baratheon.
That's just plain wrong. Viserys marrying alicent Hightower doesn't suddenly give the Hightower a dragons. All their children were still Targaryen and part of the Targaryen family. It's when you give away a daughter of house Targaryen with a dragon to another house that you give away your advantage.
No, its not. You are wrong. The mixing of andal blood with valyrian was the problem. They didnt speak valyrian. They didnt observe the traditions of their blood. They worshipped the 7 and allowed their non targaryen mother and grandfather to strip the red keep of its targaryen heraldry and valyrian artifacts in favor of iconography to the faith of the 7. They looked targaryen, and could ride dragons, but they werent truly targaryen.
@@evanf.4801 that doesn't matter they are still Targaryen, their name is Targaryen, they rode dragons and everything they did would be recorded in the name of the Targaryen family. It would not be Hightower but Targaryen no matter to what gods they prayed.
@@pinecactus9672 name doesnt matter, blood does. youre missing the point, dont expect you to ever get the point though tbh
@@evanf.4801 their blood is Targaryen and so is their name. That's the whole point. They didn't claim the throne for house Hightower they did it for house Targaryen because that's what they are.
@@pinecactus9672 a targaryen would hang the heraldry of their dynasty, display the iconography of the 14 gods, not cover it up with the faith of the seven. Theyre andals with white hair and dragons. Rhaenyras bastards are velaryon in name, and stand to inherit the throne and driftmark. Corlys only accepts this because theyd be marrying daemons daughters. The realm still had a problem with it. They are not targaryen like daemon. They are targaryen in blood half and name only.
Valyrian Dragonlord families are literally relative to the dragons, as strongly implied. They did some sort of blood magic to create dragons and bind them to a bloodline. They literally have dragon genes and dragons have human genes. That's why dragons are considered very smart creatures and they can only let the same bloodline to ride and command them.
I think this is the reason why Dany's son was born with sclaes, a tail and little wings.
Also because they stopped experimenting with dragon blood- my assumption is because of the still birth half dragon- half human issues. So they had to pass down dragon blood in some way
Marrying Alicent and keeping Otto as hand was Viserys worst mistakes
in the show Otto tried to get Aegon II to marry Rhaynera would’ve kept the peace ☮️
I think it had less to do with usurpation and more to do with the fact that if your Targaryen blood is too dilute, the dragon will not respect you & kill you, as we saw in House of the Dragon when Rhaenyra wants to find new dragon-riders to fight against the Greens
Viserys was a fool in how he handled that whole thing.
If Viserys didn't listen to Otto's manipulations, he would have married Rhaenyra and Daemon, she would be queen and he the king consort, they would have children and they would be heirs to the iron throne, even if Viserys marries Alicent and had children, Rhaenyra's children would have more entitlement.
Yeah, that makes perfect sense actually. It’s not about who you “want” to Mary it’s “our family is the only one with nukes, and as long as that’s the case, we can avoid Armageddon”
That last take made very little sense. Marrying into other powerful families is a time tested strategy that almost always works. By that logic Viserys shouldn’t have married Aemma Arryn either, and Dany shouldn’t marry anyone.
Dany should marry jon. Aemma was very closely related to the targs. So the marriage still makes sense.
Also, the video doesn't make sense for normal families. The targaryens were unmatched power, their blood literally had magic and their genetics superior. It makes perfect sense for them to keep it in the family.
@@bive4167 I agree, Dany should marry Jon, but not by that logic. Jon clearly identified with the Starks, so if they married, his Stark ‘siblings’ would be “her very equals” just like the Hightowers.
Regarding Aemma; blood doesn’t matter here, it’s only about family. Legally, she wasn’t more Targaryen than Alicent. Viserys marrying her would have made the Arryns “their very equals” as well, and I’m sure you understand how dumb that sounds.
And no, the Dragonlords have never been untouchable, though they certainly tried to appear that way. During Old Valyria the Roynar killed them in battle, and during the Conquest the Dornish did.
@@leogad669 if jon is the heir, he's not jon snow, he's Aegon targaryen. The stark influence would definitely be increased but it won't make them Equals (or maybe not because they're his cousins, not parents and siblings). See how house lannister thrived in making their daughter a queen or the tyrells.
And I agree, it won't make the other houses equal to targaryens but it is rather a matter of influence and abuse of such influence. Not to mention that targaryen blood is magic. Other houses can't ride dragons. So allowing the genes to be diluted would be a huge risk. Also it calls for unnecessary interventions, ambitions and conflicts.
PS; yes blood does matter here so far as aemma is concerned. You of course feel greater affinity towards those you're related to vs those who you're not related to. Aemma already had targaryen blood. And yes, there can be exceptions in brother sister marriages. Not like it's an absolute truth.
Also, I'm pretty sure I would never say something as stupid as "dragonlords are untouchable". I merely said that they have superior genetics that enables them to tame dragons.
No, this is why viserys should've married rhaenyra to aegon. It's not like they have a shit about age gaps.
Or to kill two birds, rhaenyra to daemon, avoiding the birth of her bastards and the dance entirely, and that way either of them could have become king.
@@evanf.4801 well I think her first three being bastards was just salt in the wound of her being the declared heir. They already had a problem that Viserys declared her over his firstborn son.
And really, she could've married Strong. Even Viserys expected Strong's father to suggest it, so I'd say it would've been a suitable match. She could've actually been happy, her children legitimate, and they could've had the full support of the Valeryons if she still wanted to try for the throne.
@@DementedDarkness546 marry strong? You’re missing the point. The reason aegon was able to conquer westeros was because he was valyrian. The concept of a unified westeros was completely alien to the kingdoms and petty kingdoms that existed before targaryen rule. The purity of their blood reinforced this.
@@evanf.4801 the realm still wouldn't have accepted Rhaenyra even if her children were Laenors. Rhaenys Targaryen did marry another of Valerian blood and the realm still rejected her even when she was the rightful heir. The blood isn't the issue. The sex is.
@@DementedDarkness546 blood is the issue. Velaryons would have inherited the throne, not targaryens.
This actually makes sense in a morally twisted way. The rulers stay in power by keeping it in the family.
There is a theory that the Hightowers were also from old Valyria and left before Aegon the Conqueror
The Targaryens did marry their cousins as well as other houses that have Valyrian origins e.g. Velaryons and Baratheons.
Queen Cersei Baratheon uses the Targaryens as a justification for her incest yet her children were illegitimate while the Targaryens were backed by the Doctrine of Exceptional which foes not apply for Lannisters.
It’s not the fact of intermarriage it’s the fact of other houses having dragons at their disposal imagine if a member of a certain house had a grudge against house Targaryen but had a Targaryen children or grandchildren they could literally lead a coup that’s why the targs either marry each other or velaryons who are the known allies
And with the magic being so powerful over there the affects of incest probably wasn't an issue.
The real mistake is not dragonrider princes marrying outsiders but letting dragonrider princesses marry into other houses. The perfect example is Rhaenys who became a Velaryon by marriage and took her dragon with her. Even more so, her children, both Velaryons, were also dragonriders. Thus there were now two families with access to dragons: Targaryens and Velaryons. Recipe for civil war.
Him not wanting to continue incest wasn't the issue it was him being weak physically and mentally he was a weakling who should have never worn the crown. His weakness of not publicly declaring his eldest heir regardless of her being his daughter was a mistake. Especially after seeing how his sons from her turned out yet it plays back into him being a weak fool that everyone took advantage of must be a viserys thing yet the last one just went mad likely aided by all the incest.
Hightowers didn’t usurp the throne , another branch of Targaryens did . And by that logic Rheanerya shouldn’t have messed around with the knights
"Sweet home alabamaaaaa"
More like sweet home dynastic Egypt
Funny thing is the very practice that supposedly "kept the blood pure" also created a lot of crazies. Don't forget that Westeros had a saying about when a Targaryen's born the gods would flip a coin.
People say Otto started the dance of the dragons, but really it was viserys. Mf saw the divide between his wife and his daughter the heir and did nothing about it for 20 years
Targaryens rowed dragons, huh
if viserys was smart, he would have installed rhaenyra as queen while he was living, and wed her to his brother, especially when he realized they were galavanting around king’s landing together. daemon begged viserys to wed rhaenyra to him. it would have sorted itself all out perfectly. additionally, viserys could have found quite literally anyone as a second queen for himself aside from alicent. obvi the age gap was far too large between him and laena but come onnnnnn dude.
Love how Visenya s eyes are more purple than her siblings like she got more Targ blood
I accidentally paused this short st a bad time and landed on a drawing of Aemond sniffing Helaena's hair 😅
Except it’s Velaryons and they actually didn’t wed sisters and brothers.. they weren’t dragon riders.. so that wouldn’t have mattered. Targs are the only ones left of the dragon riders..
Also it’s Rhaenyra and Daemons side of the family line that has continued in order for Daenerys to be around, and her dad that kept the succession in their full targ blooded reign (I think I can’t remember if any of the mixed heirs rule or not… but I’m pretty sure it’s the pure targ side, not the Hightower mixed side and that continued.
this is by the far weirdest “fact” video on this topic I’ve seen.
I thought he would mention how Rhaenys (and tecnically Rhaenyra) gave dragons to the Velaryons, and then he came with that one. Aegon, Helaena, Aemond and Daeron are Targaryens. Laena, Laenor, Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey aren't.
Yep. One has to wonder if by also mixong with other families their protection against inbreed was lost.
I aslo think the "scientist" of the maesters of high tower despised Dragons and magic.
I know it's just a typo, but I need art of someone rowing a dragon now
I think different dragons were bonded to specific families through bloodmagic, so a belaerys dragon could not be ridden by a targaryen and vice versa. They had to marry family or else their family dragons wouldn't recognise them after a few generations.
Alicent’s children were Targaryen because their father was Targaryen. If anything, it was marrying their daughters out of the family that gave others dragons. Rhaenyra’s oldest boys were Velaryon, by name, not Targaryen. They were essentially giving the throne to the Velaryons. Sons carried on the family name, not daughters. They married brothers to sisters to keep the daughters in the family. It didn’t matter if the sons married outside the family because their children would still carry their name and the genetics stayed in the family.
Yep it’s crazy how a predecessor knows when to apoint his kin as king and Vissy T is blind as a bat when it comes to it.
I think that it's a pretty clever move from George to hide the reason behind fantasy eugenics because the readers often don't care and take it literally. George makes it very clear though that this is just because they don't want to share power and that doing so isn't without issues as seen with the Targaryens being known for very often being mad. The whole incest thing is leaving its scars in the mind.
Valyrians “rowing” dragons…
Now that’s a sport I want to see!
It works out for house Targaryen though. The Greens end up dead, all of em.
Which also led to their downfall since the Targeryan family went batshit crazy and wiped themselves out
Id never looked at it that way marrying Alicent caused the dance of dragons
How the hell would house hightower userp the targeryans if the children of alicent are all targaryen 😂
because otto hightower was going to use aegon more as a puppet. & alicent clearly never taught any of her children anything of their valyrian heritage, just enough to claim dragons.
Houses like Daynes and Hightowers can be from Unpire of the Dawn who also have Silver hair or purple eyes for exaple Ashara Dayne eyes are like Dany's , Margery Tyrell mogher is Hightower and she has silver hair that may also the reason why all Alicnt children gadsilver hair unlike Rhaenyra's children.Targsryens can have not only silver hair but also golden hair
The Greens are not just “Hightowers” but also Targaryens. Ignoring that removes alot of the tragedy that is centered on a family destroying itself and never gaining back the power they lose.
But in GoT Lady O said 'it was all the rage to marry a Targ' and she didn't want to.
Making the Jedi inherently evil and corrupt is like making the Elves or Maiar inherently bad in Tolkein
I mean I get wanting to keep dragons secured, but this was done when there was more then one family. Should have created cadet branches or something with the Lord Paramounts of the Kingdoms where they have only 2 Dragons there for honour and skill, but keeps them limited. While the main family has as many Dragons as possible.
No animal on earth mates with its sibling when living free in its natural environment .
Aegon is still a Targaryen though, not a Hightower. He's a trueborn son of Viserys and still a member of that Dynasty.
Usually, usurpers are called those who stole someone else's throne, and not the eldest son of the deceased king, who legally inherited this throne)
There are tons of half targs out there and I hope Rhaenyra finds some to rise the dragons
TBF the Velaryons were never dragonriders as well. They benefitted from being one of the few Valyrian families in Westeros when the Targaryens arrived.
Our neighborhood in Saudi had a cat colony. The biggest bruiser of a cat was the alpha and he got dixk oncr dnd so had to pick him up because he laid down in the street. Neighbors came our to say they couldn’t believe that so had picked them up but he didn’t seem bothered by it at all was actually shocked that he didn’t’t fuss but he knew he needed help so he let me help him
Yes if viserys accepted the Lord corlys proposal to marry his daughter leana, the dance of the dragon probably would have never happened. But Otto used his daughter to carry viserys grief so he would choose alicent over leana.
Dragon riding genes? You gunna credit Preston Jason’s yet?
It was Targaryen hubris, their mindset that they were Gods above men, that led to their downfall, not marriage outside of their house. Look at Rhaenyra and her regime’s reaction to the storming of the dragonpit in Fire & Blood. She literally says something along the lines of “let the smallfolk go to the dragonpit, they can’t do anything to dragons” and then what happened? The absolute slaughter of the dragons. Granted, thousands of people died. But the Targaryens and their dragons were never wholly indestructible.
I also really like the theory that Targaryen blood lines were pure and full of magic that incest for them actually was good whilst normal relationships was the reason for their madness. These normal relationships between two families would’ve seen the Targaryens magical blood mixed with non-magical blood that is possibly inferior. I think that’s what caused their madness and not their inbreeding
Same goes to the Velaryion... I actually don't know how they let Corlys mary Rhaenys... like in the same generation Lena, a Velaryon, was able to claim Vhegar...and Lenor, the heir of house Velaryon was a dragone rider. With that house Velaryon got access to the power of dragons... imagine in the future, if the dance didn't happen, there would be two dragon lords in Westiros... it's like giving two countries nuclear power, we're good if our relations were good, but if there was any conflict between the two... there will be a disaster...
This was exactly what i thought after watcing the first season. I never really looked the things this way, but you are instantly fuckt if the other house decides to over throw you and they have dragons as well. It goes from 100 to zero to 50/50 changes instantly.
It isn't the Greens banner that has two other houses in it, calling Aegon Hightower is insane
I don’t know about this. Aegon and his siblings may have had Hightower relatives but they were still Targaryens. The issue would have persisted regardless of who he married because by having sons it would have always threatened rhaenyra’s claim to the throne
I guess it doesn't matter since Rhaenyras bloodline is the winner of the battle in general
But Alicent’s children are Targaryen….
Rhaynera is half Arryn
How the family survived without serious genetical and healthy problems and they continued being totally beautiful and physically strong is what we do not understand...
in my opinion, viserys should of taken a second wife whilst aemma was still alive, or should have married rhaenyra to daemon to even further secure her claim along with preparing the realm further to have a female ruler.
Well yea, also to keep the power to themselves. Meaning that those who had claims on the throne would only be the Targaryens.
Ok so I want to know something. Why is it when viserys had children with a Hightower who’s brunette his kids came out silver haired but when rhaenyra had kids with a brunette they came out brunette?
Ok so I want to know something. Why is it when viserys had children with a Hightower who’s brunette his kids came out silver haired but when rhaenyra had kids with a brunette they came out brunette?
Imagine getting a series based in old Valeria
No one is doing it like the Scandy team!
The vast amount of Targaryen bastards produced, perhaps including house Baratheon, basically guarantees that dragon-riding genes have at some level disseminated into the Westerosi nobility and the small folk of Kings landing and Dragonstone.
I find it funny that they call it usurping and I get it, from the modern perspective it kind of it, but think of it from a more medieval standpoint.
Rhaenyra was made heir purely to spite the King's brother when she was the King's only living child so she really was the only option... but then the King went and had 2 healthy sons (3 in the books but the show never shows the 3rd in season 1). Now, Rhaenyra isn't the only option and we even see, and Daemon outright tells her, the small folk would prefer Aegon to be heir. Ok so Rhaenyra doesn't care about the opinions of the smallfolk... well what about the nobles? Most of the nobles would also prefer Aegon be heir and honestly... he really should be if the aim is to keep the throne in the Targaryen family because, regardless of what Viserys says about Rhaenyra's kids coming to the throne with the Targaryen name... they aren't Targaryens. Legally they are Velaryons, which essentially means the throne will be passed to a whole new family just because Viserys wanted to spoil his favourite.
House Hightower never obtained the dragon riding genes, Velaryon was the only house that did and used it. It's far riskier to marry off a daughter and give away the power than for another house to marry into House Targaryen because the son will remain.
Ffs... Hightowers didn't take anyone's throne, Aegon is Targaryen and a legitimate heir according to the Realm's rules. Viserys could have passed the Iron Throne to Rhaenyra, he just needed to... not remarry! It's not other houses' fault he's so short-sighted.
Bullshit you need multiple heirs. What if Rhaenrya died?
Rhaenyra is the rightful heir.
@@jeambeam3173 well then he should have a) make sure Rhaenyra is a competent politician with a huge support base and a powerful alliance, that her siblings have their positions and functions at court and that they won't give her troubles in any case (either they're her main supporters, or they're send to the wall right before Viserys's death)
or
b) actually look at the rules of his kingdom, realise that the nobles' support is vital for the Realm's integrity, follow the tradition and PUBLICLY declare his first born son an heir.
He had every right to name his daughter his heir and have more children as well. He had every right to change laws and traditions he’s the KING. this is not a democracy. His PROBLEM came when he did absolutely nothing to show the lords and ladies that the succession was not to be fucked with. He was also a bad father and allowed his Queen consort and her treacherous father to rule in his stead and separate his family members into two separate courts. His daughter was the rightful heir and it’s her BLOODLINE that continues the Targaryen bloodline until that awful series finale that was game of thrones.
@@AuroraBoost not really, Viserys could say whatever he wants, but even he himself was chosen before a woman simply by being a man, and there was a council, so he should have at least held the same council after Aegon's birth. Monarch's legitimacy is based on a tradition and everyone's being okay with how the tradition is uphold by this monarch. Their opinion matters. If most nobles think that the King's idea is bad, there might be a battle. if Viserys didn't want a catastrophy, he should have asked their opinion or just follow the common rule. He did nothing.