It's important to note that some Pokemon being OP in monotype goes further than just a lack of tanks and type diversity. Some types became completely unviable because of specific Pokemon-- Steel, for instance, simply had no answer to Chi-Yu
Wasn't bug hopeless against volt switch spam from electric teams due to only having one very weak fully-evolved ground type in wormadam? Did chi yu cause trouble to more types than just steel, or was volt-switch spam still allowed because f**k bug types?
@@jaschabull2365 That's an issue of fixing a type by banning one pokemon that's overwhelming anyways, versus fixing a type by banning a very universal move. Besides. Electric isn't immune to U-Turn, so... you chose this fate buggo
@@jaschabull2365 Banning 1 Pokémon that bothers a lot of monotypes is less complex that banning a very universally used move that just one monotype has issues with. Volt Turn is not an absurdly powerful move.
@@jaschabull2365 Mono bug has...a lot of problems, honestly. So many of them are just outright deleted by other types that team building is quite hard, especially when genesect, buzzwole, pheromosa, and scolipede are unavailable.
Dude without last respects nobody is using houndstone it’s so bad. People whine about it getting banned yet they probably wouldn’t use it if they just banned last respects
I’d love to see a gen 9 gym leader version of monotype where you can bring exactly 1 pokemon that does not match your type but you must terastallize it into your type.
@@arizahmad9850 that's what they did at first, but STTB is fucking stupid. if anything it just shows why the restriction of "only STT" for regular OU doesn't really work
A *very* important thing to mention is heat rock isnt banned, and sableye gets sunny day. On a mono ghost team you can use lead sableye to taunt your opponent then sunny day to bring in flutter mane. Even though prankster doesn't work against dark types, weather, and other self inflicting status moves still have their priority. If grimsnarl gets sunny day too, that means whether you're running mono ghost or fairy, you can get a near guaranteed 7 turns of sun for flutter mane Edit: below I'm gonna list every pokemon with prankster and sunny day, and which paradox they can support Klefki: flutter mane, scream tail Murkrow: brute bonnet, roaring moon Sableye: flutter mane, brute bonnet, roaring moon Riolu*: great tusk, slither wing *I think riolu is a horrible option, especially since it has no other support at all, but it might be worth it to boost great tusk Murkrow might work, but you really wanna run either sash or eviolite to get tailwind and sun, but that means you cant run heat rock Sableye and kelfki are really the best options to run
Thats still dedicating a lot of team comp just to make one pokemon work better. Sure that mon is great, but this also means you have to include sabeleye whose stats arent great. Its a pretty big trade off that may or may not be worthit.
Grimmsnarl doesn't get Sunny sadly, since he could utilize parting shot to get the Flutter in safely after setting up the sun, but Klefki does, so Flutter still technically could have a sun setter on either team comp
@@huntersmith1413 oh on ghost teams its absolutely worth it cause if flutter mane dies or if the enemy team has a counter, skelidurge (sorry if I spelled it wrong) and ceruledge both get a boost to their secondary stab, while making water moves weaker
@@huntersmith1413 just to really double down, the only things that'll scare a flutter mane + fire/ghost combo would be a ground team which you never see, or a rock team. While rock is admittedly pretty popular, at least in low ladder, it's still not a hard type to go against, especially after flutter mane handles t-tar
I think for the most part anything banned in OU is gonna be even more ban-worthy in monotype because team building is inherently more restricting (I said this another comment), but yeah there are a few exceptions. I think it’s good when if’s done to buff an otherwise meh type (G-Darm on mono-Ice for example) but there were some cases that just didn’t make sense to me. Like why did Ghost get to use Spectrier? lol But yeah it would definitely be an interesting video topic. I’m really only familiar with gen 8 monotype so hearing about cases like that in past gens would be nice
Darmanitan-G. Is obsenely busted but Ice is so terrible otherwise they allow it. After all is not a mon who will sweep teams, just break holes on them.
The drawback to booster is that it’s single switch, whereas choice items continue to work after a pivot. I suppose pivoting is much less valuable in monotype because you don’t have any different types to counter, so it’s more valuable to just spam the single switch booster.
Pivoting had its uses as in monotype you generally want to use mons that can shore up your type weaknesses (like drapion for a psychic immunity on a poison team) so pivoting does have its important uses in monotype quite often to shuffle around your secondary type mu's
Honestly it depends on what type team you're using. Some types are naturally better-suited for certain playstyles over others (e.g. water has quite a few options, grass only gets to play relatively passive). In other words, there's still a good bit of happening in monotype but it just depends on the team you're running vs what the opponent is bringing.
Would love a video on how some mons are doing in mono type Like how garg and glimmora are carrying mono rock from terrible to okay status Or how lokix on bug is able to help against some bad matchups (not rock though, if garg gets a single iron defense off its just game vs mono bug)
Garganacl and Glimmora are the saving grace of a type that's been dead for generations. I mean, rock is just a zombie now, but at least it's playable. Salt Cure is such a good move and afaik there's no multi hit to break sturdy. So the only way to handle Garganacl is with fake out and I don't know many fake out pokemon that can one shot that defense stat.
@@ttttttttttttttttt. lycanrock in general is good Dusk with band hits extremely hard Day is super fast Midnight is there too i guess, maybe with a scarf?
One thing I'd like to know is why a pokemon which is broken because of one specific move that only that pokemon has gets banned instead of having that move banned. For example, Last Respects and Fishious Rend could have been banned to Ubers while Houndstone and Dracovish could have stayed in whatever tier they were worth.
Banning Houndstone fits within the current precedent set by the tiering policy, i.e. banning the mon instead of a specific component of the mon unless you can showcase that specific component being broken across the board with other users, of which Houndstone is currently the only user. I do think this rule is kinda dumb but houndstool will be unbanned and last respects will be banned instead once basculegion drops and terrors the tiers with last respects
@@muk_is_superior Yeah, I agree that seems pretty dumb. Arctovish can use Fishious Rend, but it's lame. So why can't they simply ban a specific combination of poke+move or poke+item or poke+ability? It'd be more fair, I think.
In the case of Dracovish , Fishious Rend was also available to Arctovish who was not really overpowered so Dracovish got banned. In the case of Houndstone , Basculegion also gets Last Respects but since its not in the game yet , the council decided that there was no evidence that basculegion is broken with Last Respects [even though it is clearly broken]. So they banned Houndstone.
I kinda just assumed that terastallization was banned in mono type. *Maybe* you could argue for Pokémon only terastallizing into whatever your mono type is? But at that point it would be so one dimensional it kinda eliminates a lot of the appeal. Alternately, it might be cool to model things after the Gen 9 gym leaders and allow a single designated Pokémon of any type so long as it is immediately terastallized into the correct monotype. But that's probably too much of a deviation from the format.
I could see an argument for either, but they would be *such* different metagames. On the one hand; yes, it kinda defeats the purpose On the other, it opens up so many possibilities that might especially affect teams that have basically one weak link that prevents them from having almost any chance against a given matchup. Again, that would make huge differences. There isn't a simple answer
I remember how busted tera was on mono normal especially(that's just my main type so the only one I have an early meta reference point for) Worried the opponent might have something that can tank a hit and revenge kill? Terastralize to give that population bomb or hyper voice or whatever that extra bit of power. Does arboliva or pyroar or something absolutely counter their team, but they have something that makes the weaknesses of the secondary type a liability? Terastralize, and turn that hit neutral for easy tanking. Don't even get me started on the shenanigans ditto could pull, though it does unfortunately get reverted if it's forced out.
Kind of a silly question but if you know Pokémon can't have damp rock why does it still say "rain 5 to 8 turns"? Either because of the rules or because it was announced it has another item like air balloon. It's always bothered me lol
It's how the script works. They don't really have the time to make minute details like these for every tier, so they just leave it like that. The same would happen with screens, for example, were Light Clay be unavailable (for whatever reason).
@@xjjay554x They mean in the cases where it's obvious that it can't be the extended amount of turns, like on monotype where the stones are usually banned, not in general.
@@firelow That’s because it tells you in the game if the opponent has an air balloon or not. It doesn’t tell you if they have a damp rock so it says 5 to 8 turns because it could theoretically be either.
I feel like Tera and Megas aren't a good comparison when talking about banning things. Megas are still very limited, you HAVE to use the mega and they still can't be put on just any team. Tera would basically just allow you to have one slot on your team be literally anything, which really goes against the spirit of monotype.
It's still pretty strong, though as a fairy main at least I get Flutter Mane and Mimikyu to counter the enemy ghosts so for me it's one of the better matchups to get.
Meloetta is perhaps the single most forgettable and despised mythical Pokémon out of all them. Maybe Smogon forgot Pirouette form is normal and fighting, however unlikely that may be.
It would have been cool, conceptially, to have Tera but only how gym leaders use it (tera other pokemon into your type) and you had to use it the first time you could. That said, probably would be broken. Bring something with STAB against all your weaknesses, maybe even an immunity ability.
The problem is that you could switch a pokemon in to soak up a hit before it could ever terastallize. With different typing, it could even be immune to something your monotype wouldn't have access to. What would keep you from switching back out to do the same thing again later? Would the rules force you to stay in after a switch to terastallize? Or is this perfectly acceptable, as long as you always terastallize before that pokemon uses a move?
@@GGreenHeart yea that something I thought about I think forcing you to Tera after switching in is probably the best option, if the goal is to mimic how gym leaders would use it, so you can only absorb one attack
I feel like kings rock shouldn’t be banned if we’re not banning serene grace. Serene grace with flinch moves has a similar effective use to kings rock with multi hit moves.
I can respect banning Terrastelization in Monotype, since the whole theme of Terrastelization is changing type and the theme of Monotype is type restriction. I cannot respect the idea of banning Terrastelization in standard play.
4:30 As a monotype player, I'd like to note that the community took year(s?) to decide that it shouldn't be allowed... Yeah, I was screaming at the monotype council the whole time too
"we're going to look at the pokemon banned in OU and not monotype and vice versa. We're going to also look at the pokemon banned in monotype and not OU." the second sentence was redundant with the vice versa lol.
Why is Houndstone banned and not just the move Last Respects (in OU too, I mean)? Maybe a good idea for a quickie video if there are other past examples of similar cases (overpowered move but the Pokémon is banned instead of just the move).
The whole altaria unplayable in fairy team made me wonder? What about mega gyrados in Gen6/7? Not usable in fly team if using mega gem? Not usable in dark team if you dont mega instantly? x)
I'm curious as to why HoundStone was banned outright instead of just banning the problem move, Last Respects. Are there other aspects of it that make it ban worthy?
@@duncathan_salt Yeah, it’s odd tbh. The only truly complex ban I can think of is Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team in Gen 5 because of how overpowered rain was. But simple moves? No reason it couldn’t be banned like that
@@darko-man8549 The worst losses are actually Galvantula and Ribombee because Mono Bug tends to be a (surprisngly) hyperoffensive sticky web archetype and losing access to the best setters really fucking sucks, and it goes without saying that losing Araquanid means Mono Bug is significantly less viable in this meta. Armaldo and Shuckle will also be missed.
If Pokemon losing their typing through mega evolution or terrastilization means you can't use them on a team, would becoming a water type through soak also make them unusable?
No….. To my knowledge the fire type move burn up also isn’t banned It might seem the same, but it’s different Soak for example, has no real purpose, and would be your opponent making a change to your Pokémon. Burn up is a rare move, that only really makes you neutral to everything, it doesn’t change your type and give you new advantages, it just means you don’t resist, have stab or take super effective damage Terra switching types defies the very purpose of monotype, which is to build within the confines of your type. Terra just means every mon from every type can beat any mon from any type, breaking that idea. Mega evolution is a bit different, but it falls back onto the idea that it bypasses the basis of the tier, by giving you access to a Pokémon that doesn’t share the same singular type
I think it just comes down to the type change persisting past switching. Relic Song Meloetta is allowed on psychic despite its form change being normal/fighting, Protean/Color Change/Imposter are ok, Transform/Reflect Type/Conversion/2 are ok, and so forth.
I totally get and understand why Terra was banned. I play a few normal teams and they all include ditto. Being able to break the norm by changing types is maybe the biggest advantage normal has. Letting everyone change type would be wild
Haven't played any monotype this gen simply because bug has been gutted 6 ways to sunday and ground has more problems than one can shake a stick at..... At least flying got knocked down a couple pegs with the removal of celesteela.
Probably still a bit early, considering the bans are fluctuating what types are good and not. Steel was arguably unviable due to Chi-Yu, but is now in a better spot because of its ban.
Banning something that goes against the concept of the meta is a good thing. Idk why one would be upset about no tera in monotype. Adaptability everything also doesn't help (which is why same type tera only is a terrible idea)
I would guess so. At this point it was probably a personal preference, though. Perhaps they felt like being able to bulldoze through your weaknesses with a bigger STAB boost was against the spirit of the format. Those players most likely prefer to use strategy and clever coverage choices to overcome bad type match-ups rather than brute strength.
I ABSOLUTELY hated I couldn’t run Kartana on Grass mono meanwhile psychic gets almost every mythical. Most other UBs and the Tapus were not banned either. It was fucking bullshit.
Monotype is damn weird. It feels like an old fashioned fighting game. For the most part, bad matchup=loose, good matchup=win. To win bad matchups you gotta jumo through hoops and do some insane trickery, or they just gotta be stupid.
It's really not how you're describing it in higher tiers lol, that being said you are right that the metagame is very unique. I knew a high ladder Rock Mono player who used a half trick room team with tech like lead Archeops and successfully beat several Water and Grass teams with it. At higher elo it's all about using smart teambuilding choices to make up for common weaknesses and try to mitigate them as much as humanly possible even if your type cannot form an immunity core for all its weaknesses. It also leads to a lot of interesting phenomena like Araquanid being not just a viable but a straight up mandatory pokemon on Bug Mono.
Protean and Libero are allowed. Libero Cinderace used to run wild in gen 8 monotype, and was probably one of the only reasons people ran Mono Fire at all.
@@bboywolf bruh... stall is hit pretty hard with the offensive behemoths running around.. and the lack of many stall staples doesnt help it to... lol idk what ur talking about.. scald nerfs balance ability to force progress against pokemon and some are rendered to be passive
@@darthhydreigon820 now because even gamefreak was tired of the stall bullshit people come up with. Boots, scald ban... its obvious gamefreak is doing what smogon hated most. Nerfing stall
I feel like in the spirit of the games, they should allow terra-typing but only if the first thing you do with it is terra into the type. eg: Katy's ursaring always going bug turn one. Would the power creep be as bad if it was Anihlape going grass? I dunno, but it feels in the spirit of the games mono type gyms, though they also don't hold items so idunno.
I feel like there should be a secondary monotype ladder for this gen that allows full terastalization because that would add an entirely new and interesting dynamic, obviously leaving the main one for those that prefer the "pure" experience
I really think Flutter Mane should be banned. Ghost and Fairy are already 2 of the 3 best types right now, and a big part of that is Flutter Mane pushing them over the edge. Generally, if something is OP in OU it will be even more OP in monotype because team building is inherently more restricting. I think monotype should be more willing to ban things than OU, so the fact that Flutter Mane stayed is kinda baffling to me
There are very notable exceptions to that, though. Cinderace, Galarian Darmanitan, Spectrier, Kyurem, and Landorus-Incarnate (in NatDex Monotype) were balanced in monotype because their types were shit and needed those mons to be viable and worth using lol
@@peepoweird Yes I agree! I also commented something similar in response to another comment somewhere on this video. The only one I disagree with is Spectrier, Ghost was definitely already a strong type in gen 8. I found it weird that they allowed Spectrier for them
It does have a disproportionate impact on the meta and as a fairy main, I've used it easily sweep most of an enemy team easily if they have a bad type. However, Flutter Mane is checked pretty hard by mons with priority moves, looking at you Shadow Sneak Mimikyu and Bullet Punch Scizor. And it's also checked by bulky spdef tanks as well and many times FM will die if it fails to one shot Skeledirge for example (let alone types FM doesn't have a super effective move against).
Banning Tera in Monotype is completely reasonable. I'm strongly against banning it in standard play, but it just doesn't make sense in the Monotype format
@Theodore Baker Exactly. The whole point of Monotype is working within the constraints of the the type you chose. Changing to a different type ruins the whole point. Plus as freezai said it turns some matchups from "uphill battle" to "completely unwinnable".
What sucks about Smogon Gen 9 monotype is that we can't tera into a different type. That's what I was very much looking forward too. Defensive Tera is so much fun and could really make mono type very interesting.
Banning terastalization in monotype is fine. Banning terastalization in something like OU is bogus. Also, the real competitive scene with violet and scarlet is 10x better than smogon. Because screw sleep clauses. And Chi-Yu is banned.
@@SharpLCDTV saying that "it is done that way because it is always done that way" is an appeal to tradition form of logical fallacy, not an actual argument.
@@TWLSpark how is it easier to ban the single pokémon than just to ban the move? That doesn't make any sense, it's all on a program completely controlled by the development team. They can just put in a flag that says "if player tries to put this move on The pokémon, disallow that to happen." Is the exact same as how they actually have the pokémon banned by preventing a person from playing it in overused.
@@Kosher3864 Showdowns isn't run by a team, but a sole developer. And no, it isn't easier, because then they have to explain to braindead people like you why they can't do that for every Pokemon with something broken to them, be it a move, ability or item. It's just better to save the effort and ban the Pokemon. Do not tag me again if all you're going to say is stupid shit, k thx.
It's important to note that some Pokemon being OP in monotype goes further than just a lack of tanks and type diversity. Some types became completely unviable because of specific Pokemon-- Steel, for instance, simply had no answer to Chi-Yu
Wasn't bug hopeless against volt switch spam from electric teams due to only having one very weak fully-evolved ground type in wormadam? Did chi yu cause trouble to more types than just steel, or was volt-switch spam still allowed because f**k bug types?
@@jaschabull2365
That's an issue of fixing a type by banning one pokemon that's overwhelming anyways, versus fixing a type by banning a very universal move.
Besides.
Electric isn't immune to U-Turn, so... you chose this fate buggo
@@jaschabull2365 Banning 1 Pokémon that bothers a lot of monotypes is less complex that banning a very universally used move that just one monotype has issues with. Volt Turn is not an absurdly powerful move.
Ground got a huge boost in viability after Iron Bundle got banned
@@jaschabull2365 Mono bug has...a lot of problems, honestly.
So many of them are just outright deleted by other types that team building is quite hard, especially when genesect, buzzwole, pheromosa, and scolipede are unavailable.
Here's hoping Basculegion can help unban Houndstone by banning Last Respects
They should make It like retaliate
Dude without last respects nobody is using houndstone it’s so bad. People whine about it getting banned yet they probably wouldn’t use it if they just banned last respects
@@Mingha0 It looks like it'd still be great in something like RU or UU, tbh.
@@Mingha0 It has It use in Sand team and It's stats aren't so bad
@@Mingha0 I still prefer an attack being banned rather then lowering the pool of potential pokemon to use.
I’d love to see a gen 9 gym leader version of monotype where you can bring exactly 1 pokemon that does not match your type but you must terastallize it into your type.
Terra being banned in monotype makes perfect sense to me. I guess the stab terra makes less but still.
Feels like they should've allowed Terra but only for STAB Terra.
@@arizahmad9850 that's what they did at first, but STTB is fucking stupid.
if anything it just shows why the restriction of "only STT" for regular OU doesn't really work
A *very* important thing to mention is heat rock isnt banned, and sableye gets sunny day. On a mono ghost team you can use lead sableye to taunt your opponent then sunny day to bring in flutter mane. Even though prankster doesn't work against dark types, weather, and other self inflicting status moves still have their priority. If grimsnarl gets sunny day too, that means whether you're running mono ghost or fairy, you can get a near guaranteed 7 turns of sun for flutter mane
Edit: below I'm gonna list every pokemon with prankster and sunny day, and which paradox they can support
Klefki: flutter mane, scream tail
Murkrow: brute bonnet, roaring moon
Sableye: flutter mane, brute bonnet, roaring moon
Riolu*: great tusk, slither wing
*I think riolu is a horrible option, especially since it has no other support at all, but it might be worth it to boost great tusk
Murkrow might work, but you really wanna run either sash or eviolite to get tailwind and sun, but that means you cant run heat rock
Sableye and kelfki are really the best options to run
Thats still dedicating a lot of team comp just to make one pokemon work better. Sure that mon is great, but this also means you have to include sabeleye whose stats arent great. Its a pretty big trade off that may or may not be worthit.
Grimmsnarl doesn't get Sunny sadly, since he could utilize parting shot to get the Flutter in safely after setting up the sun, but Klefki does, so Flutter still technically could have a sun setter on either team comp
@@huntersmith1413 oh on ghost teams its absolutely worth it cause if flutter mane dies or if the enemy team has a counter, skelidurge (sorry if I spelled it wrong) and ceruledge both get a boost to their secondary stab, while making water moves weaker
@@huntersmith1413 just to really double down, the only things that'll scare a flutter mane + fire/ghost combo would be a ground team which you never see, or a rock team. While rock is admittedly pretty popular, at least in low ladder, it's still not a hard type to go against, especially after flutter mane handles t-tar
You should talk about pokemon that were banned in ou but weren't banned in monotype during the previous generations. For example landorus-I
Very good idea commenting so this gets bumped up
I think for the most part anything banned in OU is gonna be even more ban-worthy in monotype because team building is inherently more restricting (I said this another comment), but yeah there are a few exceptions. I think it’s good when if’s done to buff an otherwise meh type (G-Darm on mono-Ice for example) but there were some cases that just didn’t make sense to me. Like why did Ghost get to use Spectrier? lol
But yeah it would definitely be an interesting video topic. I’m really only familiar with gen 8 monotype so hearing about cases like that in past gens would be nice
Darmanitan-G. Is obsenely busted but Ice is so terrible otherwise they allow it. After all is not a mon who will sweep teams, just break holes on them.
The drawback to booster is that it’s single switch, whereas choice items continue to work after a pivot. I suppose pivoting is much less valuable in monotype because you don’t have any different types to counter, so it’s more valuable to just spam the single switch booster.
Pivoting had its uses as in monotype you generally want to use mons that can shore up your type weaknesses (like drapion for a psychic immunity on a poison team) so pivoting does have its important uses in monotype quite often to shuffle around your secondary type mu's
Honestly it depends on what type team you're using. Some types are naturally better-suited for certain playstyles over others (e.g. water has quite a few options, grass only gets to play relatively passive). In other words, there's still a good bit of happening in monotype but it just depends on the team you're running vs what the opponent is bringing.
Would love a video on how some mons are doing in mono type
Like how garg and glimmora are carrying mono rock from terrible to okay status
Or how lokix on bug is able to help against some bad matchups (not rock though, if garg gets a single iron defense off its just game vs mono bug)
Garganacl and Glimmora are the saving grace of a type that's been dead for generations. I mean, rock is just a zombie now, but at least it's playable. Salt Cure is such a good move and afaik there's no multi hit to break sturdy. So the only way to handle Garganacl is with fake out and I don't know many fake out pokemon that can one shot that defense stat.
@@AdmiralStormy you run purifying salt and not sturdy btw
tbf theres also lycanday + ttar helping majorly too but yeah those two are so good for it
@@ttttttttttttttttt. lycanrock in general is good
Dusk with band hits extremely hard
Day is super fast
Midnight is there too i guess, maybe with a scarf?
would love a video on what new almost any ability strategies are running around
I NEVER expected damp rock to be banned lol that's crazy
It’s been banned for several gens in monotype though
weather is/was completely banned in some lower tiers, so not that surprising
One thing I'd like to know is why a pokemon which is broken because of one specific move that only that pokemon has gets banned instead of having that move banned. For example, Last Respects and Fishious Rend could have been banned to Ubers while Houndstone and Dracovish could have stayed in whatever tier they were worth.
Banning Houndstone fits within the current precedent set by the tiering policy, i.e. banning the mon instead of a specific component of the mon unless you can showcase that specific component being broken across the board with other users, of which Houndstone is currently the only user.
I do think this rule is kinda dumb but houndstool will be unbanned and last respects will be banned instead once basculegion drops and terrors the tiers with last respects
@@muk_is_superior Yeah, I agree that seems pretty dumb. Arctovish can use Fishious Rend, but it's lame. So why can't they simply ban a specific combination of poke+move or poke+item or poke+ability? It'd be more fair, I think.
In the case of Dracovish , Fishious Rend was also available to Arctovish who was not really overpowered so Dracovish got banned.
In the case of Houndstone , Basculegion also gets Last Respects but since its not in the game yet , the council decided that there was no evidence that basculegion is broken with Last Respects [even though it is clearly broken]. So they banned Houndstone.
@@evelye9886 exactly
I kinda just assumed that terastallization was banned in mono type.
*Maybe* you could argue for Pokémon only terastallizing into whatever your mono type is? But at that point it would be so one dimensional it kinda eliminates a lot of the appeal.
Alternately, it might be cool to model things after the Gen 9 gym leaders and allow a single designated Pokémon of any type so long as it is immediately terastallized into the correct monotype. But that's probably too much of a deviation from the format.
I could see an argument for either, but they would be *such* different metagames.
On the one hand; yes, it kinda defeats the purpose
On the other, it opens up so many possibilities that might especially affect teams that have basically one weak link that prevents them from having almost any chance against a given matchup.
Again, that would make huge differences. There isn't a simple answer
@@skinnysnorlax1876 I’m leaning towards banning it because Pokémon keep their original type STAB and I doubt they would alter that.
See your latter atguement is the most logical
Who else is listening to this on the toilet
I remember how busted tera was on mono normal especially(that's just my main type so the only one I have an early meta reference point for)
Worried the opponent might have something that can tank a hit and revenge kill? Terastralize to give that population bomb or hyper voice or whatever that extra bit of power. Does arboliva or pyroar or something absolutely counter their team, but they have something that makes the weaknesses of the secondary type a liability? Terastralize, and turn that hit neutral for easy tanking.
Don't even get me started on the shenanigans ditto could pull, though it does unfortunately get reverted if it's forced out.
Chi-Yu is one of my new favourite legendaries
Kind of a silly question but if you know Pokémon can't have damp rock why does it still say "rain 5 to 8 turns"? Either because of the rules or because it was announced it has another item like air balloon. It's always bothered me lol
It's how the script works. They don't really have the time to make minute details like these for every tier, so they just leave it like that. The same would happen with screens, for example, were Light Clay be unavailable (for whatever reason).
It's because you don't know their item, so you can't know how many turns it lasts
@@xjjay554x in the case of the air balloon tho, it always says they have an air balloon. Or the frisk ability for any item
@@xjjay554x They mean in the cases where it's obvious that it can't be the extended amount of turns, like on monotype where the stones are usually banned, not in general.
@@firelow That’s because it tells you in the game if the opponent has an air balloon or not. It doesn’t tell you if they have a damp rock so it says 5 to 8 turns because it could theoretically be either.
Early gen 9 monotype felt like literal hell, with all the ghost and fire
Skeledirge has entered the chat
0:35 you said "banned in OU but not monotype and vice versa and also the ones banned in monotype but not OU" lmao
Just one of those small things xD
I feel like Tera and Megas aren't a good comparison when talking about banning things. Megas are still very limited, you HAVE to use the mega and they still can't be put on just any team. Tera would basically just allow you to have one slot on your team be literally anything, which really goes against the spirit of monotype.
Damn man day one mono Ghost must have been busted.
I still get ptsd over anihilape, fluttermane, houndstone, goldengho, skeledirge, ceruledge
It's still pretty strong, though as a fairy main at least I get Flutter Mane and Mimikyu to counter the enemy ghosts so for me it's one of the better matchups to get.
"monotype is a social construct" preach!
4:40
I find this interesting as I remember using Meloetta-pirouette on Mono-psychic teams back in gen 6 and that was allowed.
Meloetta is perhaps the single most forgettable and despised mythical Pokémon out of all them. Maybe Smogon forgot Pirouette form is normal and fighting, however unlikely that may be.
It's because you change the form with a move, no? there's no real way to restrict it
I think it just comes down to the type change persisting past switching. Meloetta resets type when it switches, megas don't.
It would have been cool, conceptially, to have Tera but only how gym leaders use it (tera other pokemon into your type) and you had to use it the first time you could.
That said, probably would be broken. Bring something with STAB against all your weaknesses, maybe even an immunity ability.
Mono electric showing up with levitate
I would be in favorite of keeping Tera in monotype IF Pokémon that Tera don’t keep their original STAB
@@AdmiralStormy Well, that is literally what Iono does with her Tera Electric
The problem is that you could switch a pokemon in to soak up a hit before it could ever terastallize. With different typing, it could even be immune to something your monotype wouldn't have access to. What would keep you from switching back out to do the same thing again later? Would the rules force you to stay in after a switch to terastallize? Or is this perfectly acceptable, as long as you always terastallize before that pokemon uses a move?
@@GGreenHeart yea that something I thought about
I think forcing you to Tera after switching in is probably the best option, if the goal is to mimic how gym leaders would use it, so you can only absorb one attack
I feel like kings rock shouldn’t be banned if we’re not banning serene grace. Serene grace with flinch moves has a similar effective use to kings rock with multi hit moves.
My tip for this video as a person that never heard of monotype before. Why was monotype explanation only at 4 min?
AAA and Monotype are my metas, I love them
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I can respect banning Terrastelization in Monotype, since the whole theme of Terrastelization is changing type and the theme of Monotype is type restriction.
I cannot respect the idea of banning Terrastelization in standard play.
As overpowered as rage fist I absolutely love Annihilape.
small detail but i really like the new outro card
4:30
As a monotype player, I'd like to note that the community took year(s?) to decide that it shouldn't be allowed...
Yeah, I was screaming at the monotype council the whole time too
I really like that fighting got so much better in mono type since it’s my favorite type to run in monotype
"we're going to look at the pokemon banned in OU and not monotype and vice versa. We're going to also look at the pokemon banned in monotype and not OU." the second sentence was redundant with the vice versa lol.
Why is Houndstone banned and not just the move Last Respects (in OU too, I mean)? Maybe a good idea for a quickie video if there are other past examples of similar cases (overpowered move but the Pokémon is banned instead of just the move).
Stats increases from booster energy go through Unaware? That's crazy. Is the same true if boosted from sun/terrain?
Yes, Quark Drive/Protosynthesis does not give a regular stat boost, but instead alters the stat before multipliers are taken into account
I mean yeah, works the same way as say Flash Fire I think
I can understand banning Terastalization and Damp Rock, because Tera-Water Rain-boosted Moxie Quaquaval with Aqua Step is insane to use!
"monotype is a social construct" first time hearing that but it makes sense.
The whole altaria unplayable in fairy team made me wonder?
What about mega gyrados in Gen6/7?
Not usable in fly team if using mega gem?
Not usable in dark team if you dont mega instantly? x)
Only useable on water
Make a vedio comparing the forces of nature, the tapus and the ruins
That duo penguin avatar 🥰
Nice new little outro
best background at the end of the video
"Monotype is a social construct"
Ferrothorn in shambles rn
Terastalizing would go against the concept of monotype, that's why Burn Up and the new electric equivalent are banned as well
Right?
if you regain your old type when switching it's ok. See: Meloetta.
I'm curious as to why HoundStone was banned outright instead of just banning the problem move, Last Respects. Are there other aspects of it that make it ban worthy?
@@newfaces_v2 is banning a move entirely really a complex ban? there are plenty of globally banned moves
@@duncathan_salt Yeah, it’s odd tbh. The only truly complex ban I can think of is Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team in Gen 5 because of how overpowered rain was. But simple moves? No reason it couldn’t be banned like that
My bug team got so much weaker this generation
Same :(
@@thehuman2cs715 what have you lost? For me, buzzwole and centikorsh really screws me
@@darko-man8549 The worst losses are actually Galvantula and Ribombee because Mono Bug tends to be a (surprisngly) hyperoffensive sticky web archetype and losing access to the best setters really fucking sucks, and it goes without saying that losing Araquanid means Mono Bug is significantly less viable in this meta. Armaldo and Shuckle will also be missed.
@@peepoweird I think the only mon from my ladder squad that has made it through is frosmoth
@@peepoweird For context my team was:
Aquaranid
Ribombee
BUzzwole
Armaldo
Cetikorsh
Frosmoth
Goated content
If Pokemon losing their typing through mega evolution or terrastilization means you can't use them on a team, would becoming a water type through soak also make them unusable?
No…..
To my knowledge the fire type move burn up also isn’t banned
It might seem the same, but it’s different
Soak for example, has no real purpose, and would be your opponent making a change to your Pokémon.
Burn up is a rare move, that only really makes you neutral to everything, it doesn’t change your type and give you new advantages, it just means you don’t resist, have stab or take super effective damage
Terra switching types defies the very purpose of monotype, which is to build within the confines of your type. Terra just means every mon from every type can beat any mon from any type, breaking that idea.
Mega evolution is a bit different, but it falls back onto the idea that it bypasses the basis of the tier, by giving you access to a Pokémon that doesn’t share the same singular type
I think it just comes down to the type change persisting past switching.
Relic Song Meloetta is allowed on psychic despite its form change being normal/fighting, Protean/Color Change/Imposter are ok, Transform/Reflect Type/Conversion/2 are ok, and so forth.
I totally get and understand why Terra was banned. I play a few normal teams and they all include ditto. Being able to break the norm by changing types is maybe the biggest advantage normal has. Letting everyone change type would be wild
Oh thank god. I made an ice team at the beginning of the gen and I hated seeing Chi-Yu everywhere so I stopped. Maybe I can play a lil more now.
Can we get history of mono types?
Haven't played any monotype this gen simply because bug has been gutted 6 ways to sunday and ground has more problems than one can shake a stick at..... At least flying got knocked down a couple pegs with the removal of celesteela.
Flutterbane gotta be banned as same as santa claus got banned.
It has nice typing. Has same stat feed, hits likr a truck
Vote happened a few days ago, no bans and FM not getting banned either
Can you do the best and worst monotype types in SV right now?
Probably still a bit early, considering the bans are fluctuating what types are good and not. Steel was arguably unviable due to Chi-Yu, but is now in a better spot because of its ban.
@@jacksonparker6983 Not to mention with home coming out somewhat soon there might be some shakeups to the meta.
Hope to see you play monotype this gen.
Monotype is a Social construct.
Loved that line
LET'S GO MORE FREEZAI
Nintendo should take the top 12 players in monotype and have them construct elite four and gym leader teams for the new games.
Banning something that goes against the concept of the meta is a good thing. Idk why one would be upset about no tera in monotype. Adaptability everything also doesn't help (which is why same type tera only is a terrible idea)
I can only imagine the amount of screaming that is going on at the smogon forums these days
Surprised you aren't simply restricted to Tera into the monotype, but I suppose the boost is too strong?
I would guess so. At this point it was probably a personal preference, though. Perhaps they felt like being able to bulldoze through your weaknesses with a bigger STAB boost was against the spirit of the format. Those players most likely prefer to use strategy and clever coverage choices to overcome bad type match-ups rather than brute strength.
Flutter mane should've been banned a while ago. It makes it almost impossible to outplay ghost with a losing matchup
Love the 3v3 been looking for friends to play with and help me get better at the game
It would be cool if mono bug was actually playable against fire, water or ghost tbh
I ABSOLUTELY hated I couldn’t run Kartana on Grass mono meanwhile psychic gets almost every mythical.
Most other UBs and the Tapus were not banned either. It was fucking bullshit.
rage fist should loose the boost if annihilape faints or is switched
Funny that protean and libero aren't banned
Question
Is kecleon banned?
This is why I'm waiting for national dex
Monotype is damn weird. It feels like an old fashioned fighting game. For the most part, bad matchup=loose, good matchup=win. To win bad matchups you gotta jumo through hoops and do some insane trickery, or they just gotta be stupid.
It's really not how you're describing it in higher tiers lol, that being said you are right that the metagame is very unique. I knew a high ladder Rock Mono player who used a half trick room team with tech like lead Archeops and successfully beat several Water and Grass teams with it. At higher elo it's all about using smart teambuilding choices to make up for common weaknesses and try to mitigate them as much as humanly possible even if your type cannot form an immunity core for all its weaknesses. It also leads to a lot of interesting phenomena like Araquanid being not just a viable but a straight up mandatory pokemon on Bug Mono.
What’s happening in little cup tho?
King's Rock got banned? Since when?
Gen 8 iirc
Is Protean/Libero also banned for the same reason of going against the theme of the format?
No,libero cinderace was allowed in gen 8 monotype.
Protean and Libero are allowed. Libero Cinderace used to run wild in gen 8 monotype, and was probably one of the only reasons people ran Mono Fire at all.
Wait, Kings Rock is banned now?
king rock cloyster will just rob you of games
Always has been
All luck was banned except stall luck. Even gamefreak had to ban scald
@@bboywolf bruh... stall is hit pretty hard with the offensive behemoths running around.. and the lack of many stall staples doesnt help it to... lol idk what ur talking about.. scald nerfs balance ability to force progress against pokemon and some are rendered to be passive
@@darthhydreigon820 now because even gamefreak was tired of the stall bullshit people come up with. Boots, scald ban... its obvious gamefreak is doing what smogon hated most. Nerfing stall
Monotype is a social construct 😞
maybe we should just ban booster energy in standard play
If different type tera is banned in monotype, then I guess Protean was banned as well?
It actually isn't
if you regain your type on switch it's fine. See: Meloetta.
(its unrelated to the video but i will mention it) smogon is trying to make gen 9 OU become gen 8 OU , because terastalize is in suspect test.
No, it isn't.
I feel like in the spirit of the games, they should allow terra-typing but only if the first thing you do with it is terra into the type. eg: Katy's ursaring always going bug turn one. Would the power creep be as bad if it was Anihlape going grass? I dunno, but it feels in the spirit of the games mono type gyms, though they also don't hold items so idunno.
no that would be horrid imho you would never know what to expect
“There’s no good sand setters this generation”
Huh?
We have tyranitar and hippowdon still….. the only sand setters???.?.??.?.?.
he said sand rush users
I feel like there should be a secondary monotype ladder for this gen that allows full terastalization because that would add an entirely new and interesting dynamic, obviously leaving the main one for those that prefer the "pure" experience
Chi yu stronk
RIP goldfish
I really think Flutter Mane should be banned. Ghost and Fairy are already 2 of the 3 best types right now, and a big part of that is Flutter Mane pushing them over the edge. Generally, if something is OP in OU it will be even more OP in monotype because team building is inherently more restricting. I think monotype should be more willing to ban things than OU, so the fact that Flutter Mane stayed is kinda baffling to me
There are very notable exceptions to that, though. Cinderace, Galarian Darmanitan, Spectrier, Kyurem, and Landorus-Incarnate (in NatDex Monotype) were balanced in monotype because their types were shit and needed those mons to be viable and worth using lol
@@peepoweird Yes I agree! I also commented something similar in response to another comment somewhere on this video.
The only one I disagree with is Spectrier, Ghost was definitely already a strong type in gen 8. I found it weird that they allowed Spectrier for them
It does have a disproportionate impact on the meta and as a fairy main, I've used it easily sweep most of an enemy team easily if they have a bad type.
However, Flutter Mane is checked pretty hard by mons with priority moves, looking at you Shadow Sneak Mimikyu and Bullet Punch Scizor. And it's also checked by bulky spdef tanks as well and many times FM will die if it fails to one shot Skeledirge for example (let alone types FM doesn't have a super effective move against).
Banning Tera in Monotype is completely reasonable. I'm strongly against banning it in standard play, but it just doesn't make sense in the Monotype format
a neat lil dolphin is more powerful than the creator of the regis
Bruh.
A mean snake, a dirty dog, and Karate Burt are all stronger than the being that towed continents.
Bro really said we should ban terra because the rules are a social construct 😂
So, is Ditto ban for mono normal?
No
@@williammaciejewski9847 so tera should be allowed in monotype because ditto change thr type too
@@Assy21full Protean and Libero are also not banned in Monotype
its pretty funny how tera and other stuff are already banned in other formats but people dont want to see it banned in standard competitive.
Makes sense for it to be banned in Monotype. It would be super dumb to ban it in standard play.
@Theodore Baker Exactly. The whole point of Monotype is working within the constraints of the the type you chose. Changing to a different type ruins the whole point. Plus as freezai said it turns some matchups from "uphill battle" to "completely unwinnable".
What sucks about Smogon Gen 9 monotype is that we can't tera into a different type. That's what I was very much looking forward too. Defensive Tera is so much fun and could really make mono type very interesting.
Banning terastalization in monotype is fine. Banning terastalization in something like OU is bogus.
Also, the real competitive scene with violet and scarlet is 10x better than smogon.
Because screw sleep clauses. And Chi-Yu is banned.
bro said vice versa then said the definition of vice versa so whats the point
Free my child, my son, Chi-Yu
He did nothing wrong
❓️❓️❓️❓️
he is literally a war criminal who beats his wife
Fan fiction
Yes... that is what monotype is. A fan-made format. Was that supposed to be an insult?
1 view 14 seconds ago let's go!
No point in playing monotype which is why all the forums are dead for this play type
If the problem isn't houndstone and it is last respect, why doesn't pokémon just ban the move on the pokémon rather than banning the pokémon?
Exclusivity. It's easier to ban the mon holding the move than the move itself, if said mon is the only thing with the broken move in question.
Why not just ban wicked blow instead of urshifu? Usually smogon doesn’t separate the mon from the move
@@SharpLCDTV saying that "it is done that way because it is always done that way" is an appeal to tradition form of logical fallacy, not an actual argument.
@@TWLSpark how is it easier to ban the single pokémon than just to ban the move? That doesn't make any sense, it's all on a program completely controlled by the development team. They can just put in a flag that says "if player tries to put this move on The pokémon, disallow that to happen." Is the exact same as how they actually have the pokémon banned by preventing a person from playing it in overused.
@@Kosher3864 Showdowns isn't run by a team, but a sole developer. And no, it isn't easier, because then they have to explain to braindead people like you why they can't do that for every Pokemon with something broken to them, be it a move, ability or item. It's just better to save the effort and ban the Pokemon.
Do not tag me again if all you're going to say is stupid shit, k thx.
The uptalk is mildly distracting
Lol Singles player brain get all twisted up with anything more complex that Thunderbolt.
First