Oddly enough, Psyblade is Iron Leaves' only damaging Psychic move...which means it's the robo's only Psychic STAB. Kinda weird that it doesn't even get Psycho Cut, which is a very similar move conceptually. Or the move Psychic, for that matter.
It is like Iron-Vailant that get only one physique fairy stab move and instead of a super common move that 99% of the physical fairy Poke get, it get the only other move and it was a signature move in gen 8. Paradox pokemon are indeed paradoxal
@atherach Also doesn't help it gets it at the very last possible move learn chance of level 93 (or somewhere like that) so if you want to do Physical Iron Valiant you gotta get it to that far if you want the Fairy STAB
Walking Wake will be amazing on both Rain and Sun. Hydro Steam gets a 50% boost regardless of which one of those wearhers is active. If you are in the rain, use Hurricane to clean up Grass and Fighting types, while on Sun you can use Flamethrower to toast Grasses, Ices and Steels. Then, when you are out of weather or you just need a godly smack on a pokemon, a quick Draco Meteor to the dome does the trick. Looking forward to seeing Walking Wake (aka Suicune Rex) in championships.
I think it'll shine on rain largely for that reason. Replacing your rain with sun would normally cripple you, but Walking Wake would be fine should your opponent choose to do that
@@walaceandrade4046 yeah It depends if you are tera grass or want a grass boost on grassy terrain, physic terrain for physic boost, avoid priority and It combo well with tera pshycic or Electric terrain for boost, more Power signature or tera Electric It has grass moves that would cover for ground weakness
The big issue is that not only are attacking Pokémon getting better, but defensive ones are getting worse. The loss of widespread Toxic, Scald, and Knock Off as well as more anti-hazard strategies and the limit to recovery PP has made most walls less viable. Pokémon like Reshiram which aren’t viable in Ubers would still be too powerful in OU.
Walking Wake is so good for sun teams, the fact that you can now use a water type without hindering yourself means the teams are much more well rounded defensively, since sun already tends to use Grass and Fire types, so now you can use the fire/water/grass core successfully in that scenario
I don't play competitive, but I still find this interesting. Walking Wake sounds like a really interesting pokemon because it's so counter-intuitively good in the sun. A water type on sun teams sounds like a really strong way to mix up standard answers, and I look forward to your videos on how this all shakes out!
Unfortunately, they just announced that series 3 or regulation C will not have Walking Wake and Iron Leaves. It also lasts until June 30th so July is the earliest they can be added to VGC.
I'm really glad you've also gotten into VGC so that you can give educated analyses on both formats, since both are interesting and being able to actively compare/contrast them in a video is really cool
Hard to say. As is, there's no official gamefreak position on it, to my knowledge, and I doubt there will be, so I'm guessing that national dex ubers' council will just have to make a decision. The obvious argument is that it's boosted by 1.5x in sun, and while desolate land counts as sun for the sake of other things, 1.5x0 is still 0, so it would have no effect.
Walking Wake sounds like the perfect *Counter* for Sun teams, as it can enjoy the sunshine and blast away at pokemon that would normally be prepared for water-type moves to be weakened. My guess is that if it sticks around as a common mon in the meta, it may do more harm to a Sun team meta than good.
Walking Wake is good. Period. Everything about the mon is well received by most people: its design, its viability, and the creativity of its signature move (yes, it's just flipping a damage cut into a damage boost, but that simple change alters so much that I wonder why Game Freak didn't do something like that before - namely with Volcanion). Iron Leaves I feel needs to wait for Tapu Koko or another prominent electric terrain setter that doesn't have only 48 base HP and 15 base Speed to come out in to gain a steady following (at least in OU). In the current meta, terrains are nowhere to be seen outside of Ubers, while weathers have been commonplace since day one. Whether it brings people to run 160 Attack EVs to get that massive Choice Scarf boost or just settle for a Life Orb boost that can stack with Life Orb proper, Iron Leaves will get a lot more power once the electricity comes back on.
Holy hell, the stat distribution and the moveset and tera for Iron Leaves were things I thought of before watching this vid, didn't know I was leading onto something heh
i appreciate that the video got released after you have done some proper research first I see a lot of videos that were posted a few hours after the release of Paradox Suicune and Virizion, gushing about how Walking Wake is broken af and Iron Leaves is probably useless. This video gave me a better insight on Walking Wake, as I considered taking it in my team but the fact that my team doesn't really rely on sun made me reconsider. Thank you for putting so much effort in researching so that people get proper information about competitive pokemon
Yeah, once I saw Hydro Steam's effect, I instantly knew that WW was going to be an enormous asset for Sun Teams. Their greatest annoyances are Fire Types against their offensive Grasses, and Rain water types. Walking Wake quad resists both of these types, while having boosted water AND fire moves in the sun, lending Sun as a playstyle fantastic defensive and offensive utility all in one neat package. I...don't get the decision to make Iron Leaves' sig move be psychic, though. If it got a Leaf Blade sort of attack that got boosted in Electric Terrain, I could see a lot more potential in it as Ground Type Removal Service for an Electric Terrain team in Singles, which could find itself a niche for not being susceptible to sleep, if nothing else.
Walking Wake definitely has the advantage of the two. Early on it will definitely have a bit of a surprise advantage as people get used to a water type move being strengthened by the sun, so likely going to be a few people forgetting and mistakenly not swapping out something weak to water, expecting the sun to be enough protection, or just not having a way to deal with a water type in a sun team, as there isn't a lot of overlap with weaknesses. But even beyond that potential surprise element, there's the fact that sunlight is much more powerful than electric terrain, much easier to set up, and Hydro Steam has the backup of being powered the same by rain as well, and while Psyblade is also boosted by psychic terrain, it's only a 30% boost and not the 50% boost that electric terrain gives it. That makes Hydro Steam even more versatile, working on sun and rain teams, despite the fact the two tend to counter each other so well, each being the inverse of each other with the types they boost and weaken. And while psychic and electric terrain somewhat counter each other in that only one terrain can be active at a time, they don't have the same relationship of being the inverse with the type they weaken and strengthen. On top of that, nothing is immune to water type attacks, so Hydro Steam will always deal damage when it hits, whereas Psyblade will do nothing to Dark types. Psyblade does have one niche benefit that will likely never come up outside of some creative or novelty team is that Psyblade is boosted by Sharpness. So some sort of niche or novelty setup either somehow getting it on something with Sharpness or somehow giving Iron Leaves Sharpness would make it a really hard hitting move (120 base even without Electric Terrain, and I'm not sure how those effects would stack but likely 160 base with Electric Terrain up as well). So it does have that advantage if people want that niche setup. Also, if you're running their signature moves, both Walking Wake and Iron Leaves are much better off with weather or terrain setup than Booster Energy. Booster Energy gives their ability bonus even without harsh sun or electric terrain, but their signature moves want those as well, so take advantage and give it some other item instead. If you aren't running their signature moves (or want Walking Wake on a rain team) then that's different. I think it would have been interesting if their signature moves were affected by Booster Energy...
In vgc you can pair iron leaves weakness policy with a Pinchurcin sucker punck and do self sp to have iron leaves at +2, with the evs to boost the speed under terrain and the signature boosted as well. If you face a faster mon you can do protect and twave with your Pinchurcin
While Walking Wake gets more power while one of 2 weathers are active, Iron Leaves gets a power boost from one of 3 terrains (Grassy for grass moves, Psychic, and Electric for Psyblade).
@@tomwantshelp Pinchurchin is a meme at best, Indeedee is okay but excels less in Singles, and Arboliva, while good, will likely die just to set the terrain. Is this really the most reliable flexibility?
Walking wake reminds me of 4th gen Starmie. Great coverage, used bolt beam and stab psychic and hydro pump to cover a large portion of the meta game. Walking wake is flexible like Starmie too. Just not in the same ways. Starmie could have utility options in Rapid Spin. WW has flexibility in the type of teams it can be slotted in.
I think there's probably a viable VGC set for WW with breaking swipe, snarl, hydro steam and either AV drao meteor or protect. Kinda like incin but more offensive. We will have to see though, its definitely hard to get it to stick without tera.
The ruin legends being added in April really hurts Leaves since they’re all Dark types. It’s worth noting that they’re all weak to Close Combat and only Chien-Pao outspeeds it (without Booster Energy).
I think you missed one *huge* thing: Walking Wake on Rain teams. Sure, no Protosynthesis without Booster Energy. However, Hydro Steam is still at an effective 120 power, coming off of a very high special attack stat and a very good speed. Just Flamethrower and Hydro Steam alone cover pretty much every Pokemon with Drought, Chlorophyll, and Solar Power. Additionally, it does threaten a good number of Protosynthesis users with its combo of STABs, only struggling against Flutter Mane, Roaring Moon, and Scream Tail. However, the sheer value in being able to make an enemy think twice about opposing your weather is immensely powerful for a team focused on Rain. It also helps that it has a generally positive matchup going into the other two remaining weathers. Sand teams don't usually like taking Water type hits, and Hail teams can only really threaten it with Freeze-Dry - which is pretty rare in Gen 9.
Imagine a water type hard hitter who's damage can't be mitigated against using sun ........thus the two most common weather cores (sun and rain)in vgc can use this beast as their jam
I think leaving the game audio in the background wasn't a great choice, just music makes it much easier to focus on what you're saying. love your videos btw!!
Iron leaves in VGC honestly looks better as a support with a really fast quash and taunt, and has more offensive presence then Murkrow, but the fact it has to compete with one of the best support pokemon with a defensive typing like that still makes it quite iffy.
Love the subtitles for accessibility (english is not my native language as well), but it looks so awful in anything other than a phone screen. Maybe you could use TH-cam's captions in the future, as those will scale on any device? Those will also not line break for no reason.
I think what's cool about these 2 legends is that wake is good in rain and sun which is whether and iron leaves can benefit from 3 terrains cuz of its type and quark drive
I myself play Iron Leaves with Psyblade, Swords dance, Brick Break and Trailblaze I max out the attack stat and use the boosterenergy to support it even more with one swordsdance it will have about 1k Attack And with brick break it can deal with most of its counters Trailblaze is good for first STAB and also for boosting the speed It is a strong sweeper imo and i do succeed a lot
Prefer the videos without the sound effects in the background since they are very distracting to me. Love how you are focusing on vgc as well now, since I love both formats.
what do you think the rest of these triplets be like? od you think all the dogs will be dragon? ll the sword guys be psychic? will every dog get a new move? will every sword guy or will they share the new psychic one as that will probably all be their second type
*Me watching the background clip of the battle* "Damn, Waking Walk is hilarious, how do people come up with funny nicknames so quickly?!" *SIUUUUUUUCUNE joins the battle* "GOD DAMMIT, HOW?!?!" :D
Something I've tried running is life orb tera steel walking wake with hydro steam, dragon pulse, agility, and tera blast. If you're able to get sun up, and pull off an agility, it becomes a near invincible sweeper.
My problem with walking wake in singles is the lack of counters. The only things i found to wall it were huge special walls like blissey, pex or water absorb clodsire, which arent easy to include in your team a lot of the times. To revenge kill it, i absolutely love iron valiant, which i usually play scarf. Moonblast is a garanteed ohko, but it is a free switch for your opponent unless you make a really risky predict. Overall walking wake doesnt hit as hard as a mega mewtwo, but it is so easy to get in that its becoming a really great threat, and kinda restricts teambuilding.
I run my walking wake with specs instead of scarf that way it deals more damage since with protosynthesis boost on speed, it's already fast enough to outspeed all non scarfed sweepers and some scarfed sweepers. Even if it can't outspeed it's tanky enough to take a hit and take them out. I honestly use it as a revenge killer. Sack my Torkoal or Koraidon if it's Nat Dex Ubers and have a safe switch to kill the remaining 2-3 mons.
Freezai will carry out a professional state of the art competitive analysis on newly released pokémon, even giving some sets for us to use, and then proceed to not even say goodbye at the end of the video while the background music's still playing
Walking wake is good on both sun and rain but one of its coverage moves sucks depending on the weather, but it seems like a problem even walls are unable to handle. Iron leaves on the other hand, benefits from all terrains (including the currently non-existent misty terrain, anti-burns i guess?) electric terrain giving it a boost, powered up psyblade, and boosted electric moves + sleep immunity, psychich terrain for priority block and also boosted psyblade, grass for boosted leaf blade and minor recovery. Do mind that this thing gets sacred sword and close combat and is somewhat a good candidate for Sharpness. Is Psyblade a slicing move yet? The ingame animation says so.
The main problem with being 4x weak to uturn is that you can't really switch out of it. It's not a case of "garchomp is 4x weak to ice too", because even if you switch into something like corv to resist U-turn, your opponent actually gets the chance to switch in response to your own switch giving your opponent the momentum. Also, iron leaves also gets walled by some common mons like donbozo, and can't really do much to most bulky mons without an SD. All in all you just lose too much momentum in singles because it doesn't really do anything without extensive setup, and too many counters exist for said setup.
I want to try leaves out on a terrain team with koko and mega manectric in national dex. Manectric gets rising voltage, while also having an excellent speed tier and decent special attack stat. With specs valiant, which can deal heavy damage to basically any ground types, it could definitely be a lot more usable than a pincurchin team would be. I do like that this generation has given us sun and electric terrain abusers besides the typical typings that we've seen in the past. (Eleki is banned, so the only other real option for a rising voltage user would be alolan raichu, but that's just so weak comparatively, and a lot less functional when outside of terrain)
I’ve been using iron leaves with 160 attack, 96 Hp, 252 speed jolly and running sword dance, psyblade, electric terrain, terrablast and I use terra electric. I am using terrain extender right now cuz idk what else to try but it’s shredding , even with psyblade not working as intended.
It’s a shame that Iron Leaves has such a bad movepool. It gets Quick Attack but if it got Extreme Speed, maybe it could have a niche as an alternative to Dragonite being able to get +3 Attack in one turn with Swords Dance + Quark Drive.
My only thought for iron leaves is a fast and strong terrain team holding choice band with tera psychic and a boosted psyblade, still helplessly walled by gholdengo but at least it can do big number which makes me feel something
Walking wake could ensure your opponent chooses either iron bundle or fluttermane so it could be used to force your opponent into choosing either one in vgc
"It's main weakness is freeze dry, but fortunately there aren't any good freeze dry pokemon in the tier..." Yeah, thanks to the quick ban of one of them.
I'm pretty sure that Iron leaves will be an excellente companion for Miraidon, Iron Bundle still exists tho, and it's clearly a better option, also gets rid of ground types and renders Walking wake unusable while it's alive (Iron Bundle I mean)
I love how when listing Iron Leaves' weaknesses, you said Dark, Fire, and U-Turn. No other bug moves, just U-Turn hahaha
First impression ?
@@Coin17oe U turn
U-turn is the most used bug move, you'll see struggle bug and first impression once in a while tho
@@ohreally69 I think you mean bug buzz lol
@@r1k1llaz bug buzz too,but i was also kinda replying to the first person and the OP at the same time
I love how bug type is so irrelevant that u turn isn't even a bug type move it's just a u turn type move
First impression is the only other good bug move but thats ohkoing a lot already without weaknesses
It's kinda sad to see, I love Bug type, but it makes sense why "Bug" isn't as powerful
Mega horn is alright I guess (and bug buzz)
Bug isn’t that bad but u turn is infinitely more relevant than bug as a type. It’s pretty much the only bug move that non bugs run.
salamence moment
Oddly enough, Psyblade is Iron Leaves' only damaging Psychic move...which means it's the robo's only Psychic STAB.
Kinda weird that it doesn't even get Psycho Cut, which is a very similar move conceptually. Or the move Psychic, for that matter.
It is like Iron-Vailant that get only one physique fairy stab move and instead of a super common move that 99% of the physical fairy Poke get, it get the only other move and it was a signature move in gen 8. Paradox pokemon are indeed paradoxal
If only it was psychic/steel or grass/steel
@atherach Also doesn't help it gets it at the very last possible move learn chance of level 93 (or somewhere like that) so if you want to do Physical Iron Valiant you gotta get it to that far if you want the Fairy STAB
In some other, much brighter, universe, Iron Leaves is grass/steel and has a good signature grass move
dies when it sees a gas stove
I was expecting grass fairy for some reason
@@Frost87000 grass fairy sounds really good too
That would just be kartana's little brother
@ieatwater6550 better than being a walking pile of garbage.
Walking Wake will be amazing on both Rain and Sun. Hydro Steam gets a 50% boost regardless of which one of those wearhers is active. If you are in the rain, use Hurricane to clean up Grass and Fighting types, while on Sun you can use Flamethrower to toast Grasses, Ices and Steels.
Then, when you are out of weather or you just need a godly smack on a pokemon, a quick Draco Meteor to the dome does the trick. Looking forward to seeing Walking Wake (aka Suicune Rex) in championships.
i was thinking of it's rain utility as well
Makes it harder to counter with your own weather archetype
Pretty flexible mon
I think it'll shine on rain largely for that reason.
Replacing your rain with sun would normally cripple you, but Walking Wake would be fine should your opponent choose to do that
It’s going to be a fantastic rain team pick to smack sun teams unprepared for it counter sweeping them
It's interesting that Walking Wake benefits from both rain and sun while Iron Leaves benefits from both Electric Terrain and Psychic Terrain
And Grassy Terrain too?
@@walaceandrade4046 yeah It depends if you are tera grass or want a grass boost on grassy terrain, physic terrain for physic boost, avoid priority and It combo well with tera pshycic or Electric terrain for boost, more Power signature or tera Electric It has grass moves that would cover for ground weakness
The main difference being that rain boosts water moves by 1.5x while psychic terrain only boosts psychic moves by 1.3x.
at this rate with the powercreep, chi yu is going to be in uu when gen 13 arrives
Try by Gen X.
The creep is real!
By Gen 13 we're going to be seeing Groudon in RU
The big issue is that not only are attacking Pokémon getting better, but defensive ones are getting worse. The loss of widespread Toxic, Scald, and Knock Off as well as more anti-hazard strategies and the limit to recovery PP has made most walls less viable.
Pokémon like Reshiram which aren’t viable in Ubers would still be too powerful in OU.
There's gonna be something lower than ZU
@@JohnWick-rh1zz It better be called FU
I LOVE that you talk about and understand both smogon and VGC
Walking Wake is so good for sun teams, the fact that you can now use a water type without hindering yourself means the teams are much more well rounded defensively, since sun already tends to use Grass and Fire types, so now you can use the fire/water/grass core successfully in that scenario
"It's weak to all sorts of common attacking types... like U-Turn, Dark, Fire, Ghost, and Ice"
Cries in Bug type.
RIP poor U-Turn type, can’t even remember what it was once called.
I don't play competitive, but I still find this interesting. Walking Wake sounds like a really interesting pokemon because it's so counter-intuitively good in the sun. A water type on sun teams sounds like a really strong way to mix up standard answers, and I look forward to your videos on how this all shakes out!
Verizon needed more love honestly glad it got a paradox form
verizon
i hope my Virizion network can support nintendo switch online
@@bidoof367 who knew that it became a phone in the future
Paradox Virizion’s stats are pretty good but it has more weaknesses than Virizion
new forms do nothing to help the actual pokemon being garbage, you cannot change my mind
The unique thing about iron leaves is that it benefits from 3 terrains instead of just relying on electric terrain like other future forms
Yep, all 3 of them.
@@rileydavidson180 misty terrain moment
@@rileydavidson180 oops lol
Funny enough, Iron Leaves gets the combo of Swords Dance + Trailblaze. Making strong and harder to revenge kill
A lot of Pokémon get that. Iron leaves just has the advantage of having stab on it.
@@noahtaylor1721… with Tera Type, every Pokémon can get STAB on it too.
man this thing would have been so scary with grassy terrain
@@jaimemorenoruizdesign That sounds like the worst waste of Tera possible, using it to get STAB on Trailblaze of all things
U turn.
9:40 As a soccer fan I LOVE that you called UU “the 2nd division” Just made me realize that Tier Shifts are essentially Promotion/Relegation 😅
"Soccer" fan. Doesn't make any sense
@@Michi-ce3df ew you’re one of those guys? lol cope bro 🤫🇺🇸
Unfortunately, they just announced that series 3 or regulation C will not have Walking Wake and Iron Leaves. It also lasts until June 30th so July is the earliest they can be added to VGC.
I'm really glad you've also gotten into VGC so that you can give educated analyses on both formats, since both are interesting and being able to actively compare/contrast them in a video is really cool
Amazing typing and good signature move, with great stats, Walking Wake is so good
Walking Wake (nicknamed Walker White) is such a cool Pokemon and I'm having so much fun with it
I like the idea of tera fire on Walking Wake, making flamethrower stab and also boosted in sun along with Hydro Steam. Seems fun can't wait to use it.
I just can't stop gushing over how cool Walking Wake's design is. Seriously so dope.
Can’t lie I just wanted to comment just to say that the clip with hurricane hitting in the sun -> confusion -> self-hit was fucking legendary lmao
Iron Leaves gets quash as well. Super situational in VGC but it's cool to have.
Only time I used that move was in a Charizard / Sableye team
Imagine when mighty kyogre and groudon return. Walking wake will be such a flexible mon during the weather waars of gen 9 vgc! 🤠
I wonder if Hydro Steam ignores Desolate Land
Good question
Hmm
primal groudon isnt in the game so im not sure if gamefreak had any thought about that
It wouldnt. The ultimate effect of the attack is that of a water type move, so it wouldn't work under desolate land
Hard to say. As is, there's no official gamefreak position on it, to my knowledge, and I doubt there will be, so I'm guessing that national dex ubers' council will just have to make a decision. The obvious argument is that it's boosted by 1.5x in sun, and while desolate land counts as sun for the sake of other things, 1.5x0 is still 0, so it would have no effect.
Walking Wake sounds like the perfect *Counter* for Sun teams, as it can enjoy the sunshine and blast away at pokemon that would normally be prepared for water-type moves to be weakened. My guess is that if it sticks around as a common mon in the meta, it may do more harm to a Sun team meta than good.
yh thought the same
I feel like booster energy iron leaves in sun would be better since then you could use solar blade instead of leaf blade.
Gotta say, I absolutely love the hat your character uses ingame
Walking Wake is good. Period. Everything about the mon is well received by most people: its design, its viability, and the creativity of its signature move (yes, it's just flipping a damage cut into a damage boost, but that simple change alters so much that I wonder why Game Freak didn't do something like that before - namely with Volcanion).
Iron Leaves I feel needs to wait for Tapu Koko or another prominent electric terrain setter that doesn't have only 48 base HP and 15 base Speed to come out in to gain a steady following (at least in OU). In the current meta, terrains are nowhere to be seen outside of Ubers, while weathers have been commonplace since day one. Whether it brings people to run 160 Attack EVs to get that massive Choice Scarf boost or just settle for a Life Orb boost that can stack with Life Orb proper, Iron Leaves will get a lot more power once the electricity comes back on.
Really wish Iron Leaves had a different type combo. When I first saw it I thought it would be Psychic/Fighting.
Holy hell, the stat distribution and the moveset and tera for Iron Leaves were things I thought of before watching this vid, didn't know I was leading onto something heh
An important note
Iron leaves has access to ally switch that is really good in doubles,you can play mind games with your opponent
I think this is the first good Mon with ally switch, we better prepare ourselves for shenanigans in VGC
@@leonel392 having ally switch actually forces flutter mane and bundle to either use spread moves or make a 50/50 prediction
@@atiquezzamanrussell5351 and that alone makes it worth it, damn VGC is gonna be so much fun
@@leonel392 Shedinja is the best user of Ally Switch
@@groudonvert7286 not in competitive, because spread moves exist
Walking wake stat wise is like a spa version of garchomp, you could prob go bulky walking wake and still see some success
I’ve been waiting for you take on these mons since they dropped
"Common attacking types like u-turn" lmao bug summed up perfectly
i appreciate that the video got released after you have done some proper research first
I see a lot of videos that were posted a few hours after the release of Paradox Suicune and Virizion, gushing about how Walking Wake is broken af and Iron Leaves is probably useless.
This video gave me a better insight on Walking Wake, as I considered taking it in my team but the fact that my team doesn't really rely on sun made me reconsider. Thank you for putting so much effort in researching so that people get proper information about competitive pokemon
if you honestly think iron leaves will stay in OU and not drop down then lmao.
8:04 I like how you didn't even say bug type and just said u-turn lmao
It's cool that Walking Wake Is good under both Rain and Sun and Raihan is a gen late for enjoying this mon
Yeah, once I saw Hydro Steam's effect, I instantly knew that WW was going to be an enormous asset for Sun Teams. Their greatest annoyances are Fire Types against their offensive Grasses, and Rain water types. Walking Wake quad resists both of these types, while having boosted water AND fire moves in the sun, lending Sun as a playstyle fantastic defensive and offensive utility all in one neat package. I...don't get the decision to make Iron Leaves' sig move be psychic, though. If it got a Leaf Blade sort of attack that got boosted in Electric Terrain, I could see a lot more potential in it as Ground Type Removal Service for an Electric Terrain team in Singles, which could find itself a niche for not being susceptible to sleep, if nothing else.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Really glad to see the VGC breakdowns alongside the singles ones!
Hydro Steam is a good anti sun tech on rain teams, since if the opponent sends in torkoal on your walking wake, it will ohko it
Hey bro, just a friendly tip! Crank that background audio down justa bit. Way loud for where ur vocal levels r at. Keep up good work
Walking Wake definitely has the advantage of the two. Early on it will definitely have a bit of a surprise advantage as people get used to a water type move being strengthened by the sun, so likely going to be a few people forgetting and mistakenly not swapping out something weak to water, expecting the sun to be enough protection, or just not having a way to deal with a water type in a sun team, as there isn't a lot of overlap with weaknesses.
But even beyond that potential surprise element, there's the fact that sunlight is much more powerful than electric terrain, much easier to set up, and Hydro Steam has the backup of being powered the same by rain as well, and while Psyblade is also boosted by psychic terrain, it's only a 30% boost and not the 50% boost that electric terrain gives it. That makes Hydro Steam even more versatile, working on sun and rain teams, despite the fact the two tend to counter each other so well, each being the inverse of each other with the types they boost and weaken. And while psychic and electric terrain somewhat counter each other in that only one terrain can be active at a time, they don't have the same relationship of being the inverse with the type they weaken and strengthen. On top of that, nothing is immune to water type attacks, so Hydro Steam will always deal damage when it hits, whereas Psyblade will do nothing to Dark types.
Psyblade does have one niche benefit that will likely never come up outside of some creative or novelty team is that Psyblade is boosted by Sharpness. So some sort of niche or novelty setup either somehow getting it on something with Sharpness or somehow giving Iron Leaves Sharpness would make it a really hard hitting move (120 base even without Electric Terrain, and I'm not sure how those effects would stack but likely 160 base with Electric Terrain up as well). So it does have that advantage if people want that niche setup.
Also, if you're running their signature moves, both Walking Wake and Iron Leaves are much better off with weather or terrain setup than Booster Energy. Booster Energy gives their ability bonus even without harsh sun or electric terrain, but their signature moves want those as well, so take advantage and give it some other item instead. If you aren't running their signature moves (or want Walking Wake on a rain team) then that's different.
I think it would have been interesting if their signature moves were affected by Booster Energy...
In vgc you can pair iron leaves weakness policy with a Pinchurcin sucker punck and do self sp to have iron leaves at +2, with the evs to boost the speed under terrain and the signature boosted as well. If you face a faster mon you can do protect and twave with your Pinchurcin
What no tapu Koko does to quark drive users:
While Walking Wake gets more power while one of 2 weathers are active, Iron Leaves gets a power boost from one of 3 terrains (Grassy for grass moves, Psychic, and Electric for Psyblade).
okay, but are you actually running more than one type of terrain on your team?
I think the idea is that it's more terrain flexible, but unless we get the tapus we have terrible terrain setters at the moment
@@a.v.y8331 we have some great ones in the box legendaries they're just y'know
VERY not legal in the main formats.
Indeedee is a good Psychic terrain setter in VGC. I think the only other legal ones are Arboliva and Pinchurchin?
@@tomwantshelp Pinchurchin is a meme at best, Indeedee is okay but excels less in Singles, and Arboliva, while good, will likely die just to set the terrain. Is this really the most reliable flexibility?
Ou might need iron bundle back to counter wake bc he's gonna dominate this format everyone is gonna regret kicking him out of the tier
2:52 lol hurricane hit in sun, caused confusion and roaring moon hit itself
Walking wake reminds me of 4th gen Starmie. Great coverage, used bolt beam and stab psychic and hydro pump to cover a large portion of the meta game. Walking wake is flexible like Starmie too. Just not in the same ways. Starmie could have utility options in Rapid Spin. WW has flexibility in the type of teams it can be slotted in.
I think there's probably a viable VGC set for WW with breaking swipe, snarl, hydro steam and either AV drao meteor or protect. Kinda like incin but more offensive. We will have to see though, its definitely hard to get it to stick without tera.
The ruin legends being added in April really hurts Leaves since they’re all Dark types. It’s worth noting that they’re all weak to Close Combat and only Chien-Pao outspeeds it (without Booster Energy).
I think you missed one *huge* thing: Walking Wake on Rain teams.
Sure, no Protosynthesis without Booster Energy. However, Hydro Steam is still at an effective 120 power, coming off of a very high special attack stat and a very good speed. Just Flamethrower and Hydro Steam alone cover pretty much every Pokemon with Drought, Chlorophyll, and Solar Power. Additionally, it does threaten a good number of Protosynthesis users with its combo of STABs, only struggling against Flutter Mane, Roaring Moon, and Scream Tail. However, the sheer value in being able to make an enemy think twice about opposing your weather is immensely powerful for a team focused on Rain.
It also helps that it has a generally positive matchup going into the other two remaining weathers. Sand teams don't usually like taking Water type hits, and Hail teams can only really threaten it with Freeze-Dry - which is pretty rare in Gen 9.
Imagine a water type hard hitter who's damage can't be mitigated against using sun ........thus the two most common weather cores (sun and rain)in vgc can use this beast as their jam
I think leaving the game audio in the background wasn't a great choice, just music makes it much easier to focus on what you're saying. love your videos btw!!
Amazing video! Though I do think the sound effects in the video were slightly too loud :)
Iron leaves in VGC honestly looks better as a support with a really fast quash and taunt, and has more offensive presence then Murkrow, but the fact it has to compete with one of the best support pokemon with a defensive typing like that still makes it quite iffy.
Love the subtitles for accessibility (english is not my native language as well), but it looks so awful in anything other than a phone screen. Maybe you could use TH-cam's captions in the future, as those will scale on any device? Those will also not line break for no reason.
I think what's cool about these 2 legends is that wake is good in rain and sun which is whether and iron leaves can benefit from 3 terrains cuz of its type and quark drive
Great tusk getting two new opps is crazy
I myself play Iron Leaves with Psyblade, Swords dance, Brick Break and Trailblaze
I max out the attack stat and use the boosterenergy to support it even more
with one swordsdance it will have about 1k Attack
And with brick break it can deal with most of its counters
Trailblaze is good for first STAB and also for boosting the speed
It is a strong sweeper imo and i do succeed a lot
Noticed the blunder iron leafeon footage. Game recognizes Game
Prefer the videos without the sound effects in the background since they are very distracting to me.
Love how you are focusing on vgc as well now, since I love both formats.
I love how you say there is no good freeze pokemon and Iron Bundle is laughing in the corner for a quad freeze dry
Iron Bundle is Uber
I wish there was a paradox form of Jimothy Cool
what do you think the rest of these triplets be like? od you think all the dogs will be dragon? ll the sword guys be psychic? will every dog get a new move? will every sword guy or will they share the new psychic one as that will probably all be their second type
Walking Wake is friggin HUGE
*Me watching the background clip of the battle* "Damn, Waking Walk is hilarious, how do people come up with funny nicknames so quickly?!" *SIUUUUUUUCUNE joins the battle* "GOD DAMMIT, HOW?!?!" :D
Great video
Something I've tried running is life orb tera steel walking wake with hydro steam, dragon pulse, agility, and tera blast. If you're able to get sun up, and pull off an agility, it becomes a near invincible sweeper.
For vgc I would use assault vest just to give it a bulk on the range for walking wake
My problem with walking wake in singles is the lack of counters. The only things i found to wall it were huge special walls like blissey, pex or water absorb clodsire, which arent easy to include in your team a lot of the times. To revenge kill it, i absolutely love iron valiant, which i usually play scarf. Moonblast is a garanteed ohko, but it is a free switch for your opponent unless you make a really risky predict. Overall walking wake doesnt hit as hard as a mega mewtwo, but it is so easy to get in that its becoming a really great threat, and kinda restricts teambuilding.
I'm glad you are doing more VGC content
I run my walking wake with specs instead of scarf that way it deals more damage since with protosynthesis boost on speed, it's already fast enough to outspeed all non scarfed sweepers and some scarfed sweepers. Even if it can't outspeed it's tanky enough to take a hit and take them out. I honestly use it as a revenge killer. Sack my Torkoal or Koraidon if it's Nat Dex Ubers and have a safe switch to kill the remaining 2-3 mons.
Freezai will carry out a professional state of the art competitive analysis on newly released pokémon, even giving some sets for us to use, and then proceed to not even say goodbye at the end of the video while the background music's still playing
Tapu Fini will be unleashed in this meta, holy shit
Walking wake is good on both sun and rain but one of its coverage moves sucks depending on the weather, but it seems like a problem even walls are unable to handle.
Iron leaves on the other hand, benefits from all terrains (including the currently non-existent misty terrain, anti-burns i guess?) electric terrain giving it a boost, powered up psyblade, and boosted electric moves + sleep immunity, psychich terrain for priority block and also boosted psyblade, grass for boosted leaf blade and minor recovery. Do mind that this thing gets sacred sword and close combat and is somewhat a good candidate for Sharpness. Is Psyblade a slicing move yet? The ingame animation says so.
Hey,I good love you to show how India does in monowcup this week,it’s the most important week and I love monotype too
I cannot believe they power crept Kingdra / brought Palkia to OU (whatever you wanna call it) and remade Celebi!
The main problem with being 4x weak to uturn is that you can't really switch out of it. It's not a case of "garchomp is 4x weak to ice too", because even if you switch into something like corv to resist U-turn, your opponent actually gets the chance to switch in response to your own switch giving your opponent the momentum. Also, iron leaves also gets walled by some common mons like donbozo, and can't really do much to most bulky mons without an SD. All in all you just lose too much momentum in singles because it doesn't really do anything without extensive setup, and too many counters exist for said setup.
I want to try leaves out on a terrain team with koko and mega manectric in national dex. Manectric gets rising voltage, while also having an excellent speed tier and decent special attack stat. With specs valiant, which can deal heavy damage to basically any ground types, it could definitely be a lot more usable than a pincurchin team would be. I do like that this generation has given us sun and electric terrain abusers besides the typical typings that we've seen in the past. (Eleki is banned, so the only other real option for a rising voltage user would be alolan raichu, but that's just so weak comparatively, and a lot less functional when outside of terrain)
I still can’t decide if i love the new suicune or think it’s cursed af
I agree
It's one of those mons where their official art is really nice but their in-game model is kinda uncanny. I do like both paradoxes tho.
Iron Leaves is going to be very good in doubles imo. Very good support moves and is a potential monster in elec terrain
i just think its so sick that they dropped 2 new pokemon in a non dlc update
I’ve been using iron leaves with 160 attack, 96 Hp, 252 speed jolly and running sword dance, psyblade, electric terrain, terrablast and I use terra electric.
I am using terrain extender right now cuz idk what else to try but it’s shredding , even with psyblade not working as intended.
Torkoal stocks are up.
Grass/Psychic with ok base power moves and is slower than Iron Valiant? RIP 💀
I feel like walking wake is here for a good time not a long time. Give it an item to boost its power and it’ll hit until it goes down.
First! Love your vids by the way
I think future paradox got shafted because there is not good electric terrain seters in VGC and Ou.
Torkoal it's just too good at its job
I think both are good competitively if you play correctly, but in design, Walking wake wins by far
Iron leaves gets benefits from 3 different terrains not just electric. Iron leaves will be a more specialty terrain pick.
It’s a shame that Iron Leaves has such a bad movepool. It gets Quick Attack but if it got Extreme Speed, maybe it could have a niche as an alternative to Dragonite being able to get +3 Attack in one turn with Swords Dance + Quark Drive.
My only thought for iron leaves is a fast and strong terrain team holding choice band with tera psychic and a boosted psyblade, still helplessly walled by gholdengo but at least it can do big number which makes me feel something
I played a few rounds on low ledder and Iron leave always sweept after one trailblaze
Walking wake could ensure your opponent chooses either iron bundle or fluttermane so it could be used to force your opponent into choosing either one in vgc
"It's main weakness is freeze dry, but fortunately there aren't any good freeze dry pokemon in the tier..." Yeah, thanks to the quick ban of one of them.
I'm surprised freezai didn't say ban walking wake.
I’m always confused if it’s Walking Walk, Waking Wake, Walking Wake, or Waking Walk, I misspelled that 5 times.
The walkiest of walks
I'm pretty sure that Iron leaves will be an excellente companion for Miraidon, Iron Bundle still exists tho, and it's clearly a better option, also gets rid of ground types and renders Walking wake unusable while it's alive (Iron Bundle I mean)