Pontiac 455 - What went wrong?? What will we find??? The Ugly Truth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2023
- Pontiac 455 Autopsy - What will we find???
This engine brought to me by my customer Joe, was built by someone else. He has just finished a transmission installation when something went wrong and the engine quit. - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
The stud was slipped into the spark plug hole intentionally it's too long to get past the valve without getting bent or bending the valve itself
That is a logical theory RBarker and I know it seems impossible, but the evidence indicates that it did. I will be removing the intake valve so witness marks on it will confirm. AG
I accidently dropped a bolt into the lifter gallery of my Pontiac motor one time. Paranoia took over so I lifted the engine, removed the pan and retrieved the bolt. Since I was that far into it, I pulled the motor and replaced the crappy rope rear main seal with a Cadillac Neoprene seal to fix a leak.
I agree I would sleeve that block and recheck the rest and should be great
That is an option, thanks Danny. AG
This is a great channel. I really enjoy your depth of experience and knowledge that you bring, and the serious approach, unlike so much other car related content.
Very nice compliment Spacedout. Thanks for your support. AG
Ouch!. been down that road.. Thank you for your knowledge and video's USA 🇺🇸
Thanks for your comment Patrick. A terrible experience. AG
Well that sucks.
I know a guy very well that hoarded Pontiac everything for a good 40 years. He even had ram Air V heads. Don't know if he still has a supply of 455's. He has a medium size junk yard. In the late 80's and early 90's he was saving big block anything - had dozens of 440's, 455's (Pontiac, Olds and Buick), 428's, 460's etc. He said some day you won't be able to find these.
Thanks John
Joe is evaluating his options. Ag
Congratulations on hitting 5k.
Thanks you very much for your support Joe. On to the next 5K. AG
Seen it many times. Needs a jam nut at the top of carb to lock stud in place. Seen the jam nut fall in also... wasnt tightened.
thanks Col. AG
If he is lucky, it can be sleeved
Thanks David, that still might be an option. AG
Same thing happened to me climbing 'rock cut hill' going into Bracebridge. Felt something stick the throttle when I let off. Gave it a little tap on the pedal, and thought "I'll have to look at the linkage when I get home". Made it to the lumber yard, the far side of town and it started running rough. Saw the stud was gone, got towed home. #8 intake was stuck open. Held the valve open and got it with the curly tool that Arnold used up his nose in "Total Recall". I think it might have marked the valve seat a bit. But I just kept driving it. Got lucky that time. Sometimes it pays to use a mild cam I guess.
Thanks for sharing your experience Naked. AG
Thx for Informative video....I Always Learn something watching your channel !! .....Feel sorry for Joe 😢 .......The most Important takeaway Lesson is Don't Start an engine or even short Driveway test runs with a Secured Complete air filter Assembly !! .....Very Likely car was Driven with No Air filter,,Just with the threaded fastener Stud.....That's the Only Likely way that 1/4" Stud got Ingested by carb & ultimately Into the Cylinder causing the Usual metal foreign object engine Damage......Hopefully, can be Sleeved & Block saved !!! .....Lesson Learned no matter how Short duration test drive is...Don't Do it ,,,,,,
All good info, thanks Tom. AG
WOW! Always put a lock nut on the carb stud!
Good advice 39Impala. AG
I have seen this before...sabotage... be careful who you let "hang around" in your garage. I had a friend with a fresh built 383 stroker. On startup, a bolt was in the combustion chamber and busted the block. The day before this happened, the heads were bolted/torqued by the owner with "help" from a few friends.
I’ve been told before but I’ll definitely learn from his mistake. Don’t run engine with the air cleaner stud flopping around.
Thanks Gary, good advice, i was thinking after the video to tell everyone watching to go out and check their breather stud. AG
I don't think this block needs to be condemned yet. A sleeve can fix that providing the crack doesn't migrate above or below the cylinder wall.
Thanks Yarrda. Looks like we may have a block. We will update on future videos. AG
So sad to see that happen I know how he feels though I just had my 454 eat the cam during cam break in
Thanks for the comment Justin. Losing a cam is a nasty experience for sure. AG
The 400 blocks are pretty easy to come by. They make a nice kit to make it a 468. One of the benefits says with the 400 block is it uses a 3inch main bearing instead of a 3.25 inch main . It's possible that it can be sleeved. I'm sure the rod is bad. Also I noticed that the casting number of the head was ground off almost all 455 heads have 111 to 115 cc chamber and they have a hard time making 8 to 1 it's possible that was a 400 head like a 6X or something. I'd be very interested to see if you could CC the head anyway he's got work ahead of them and it sucks because it's happened to me twice with my Oldsmobile but I was lucky and it just hurt the piston. It didn't hurt the block or the rods. The first time I didn't think about it but when you use a Holley carburetor, you have to use a lock not The stud otherwise they can back off if the air filter wing that loosens up the second time, the stud broke at the gym not for some reason. And it was only part the size of the first time actually the first time it took out four pistons and bent the ring lands down on a couple of them
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences DMR. Very helpful. AG
You have a lot work ahead for you AG...
Thanks Leonard. That's Ok, that what we do. It will get fixed. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 AG the guy that made a comment about the base plate screws in a Holley carb is wrong! They do not stake the base plate screws, it's the throttle plates...
I've been building Motors for 50 plus years, I have seen a lot of Motors destroyed by dropping crap down through the carburetor. All carburetor air cleaners studs should be Loctite in, also if you run a open Platinum intake and you put a holly carburetor on it you absolutely always take the middle bolts out of the base plate of the carburetor, cuz they will fall out in just a little bit of time it will kill a motor in a heartbeat.
Thanks Sherwin. That is exactly what happened. We will be making videos soon of the fix. Just getting all the parts and machining done now. AG
Like your show I had same thing happened to my I build 400 sbc D stroke 327 crankshaft destroyed piston and 400 dart little M block busted cylinder 😢 sickness still today don't know how bolt gotten into my cylinder Evan busted piston
It is a terrible experience for sure Robert. AG
Since you rebuilt motors I have a 1968 pontiac lemans I did a ls swap on. I put a old 5.3 in it but I did get a 6.0 to rebuild. My question is do I rebuild the 6.0 or do I rebuild the pontiac 455? Still been trying to decide I will be putting a toqurestorm supercharger on which even one I rebuild. Just looking for another opinion.
You have lots of choices Andy. Both LS are better engines technically but unless performance is your only criteria, I think the 455 would be a better choice. I am old school though. AG.
I feel for Joe, such a small thing causes big damage. I work repairing audio electronics, one small mistake while testing or replacing parts can cause massive damage to a piece of electronics.
Thanks for sharing your experience Marcus. AG
I dont understand how that stud was able to fall past the carb into the plenum, then fall to the intake valve & actually get past the intake valve, then into the cylinder??!! Wow!!!
Nice catch with the flex plate by the way! Dont think I didn't notice that! Lol!
Great observation, thanks Jesse AG
Stud probably fell in the rear barrels of the carb and when throttle opened the butterfly's the stud fell into the intake and then the cylinder . I'm going to comment about what happened to a brand new 68 375hp 396 special order Chevelle while getting ready for the customer .
Sometimes the screws out of the bottom of Holley carb would fall out and go through the engine and leave pretty nuts in the top of piston, show type of threads and was a Philip heads screw. That's why they had plates that fit between the carb and intake so the screws cannot fall out and get in the engine...
The screws for the butterflies?
Any carb I've seen built in my lifetime have had the threads peened after installation to prevent just that 🤔
Thanks Leonard. AG
Is it hard to sleeve these blocks?
Would seem like it could be a good fix if it could be done?
Thanks Magnus, looks like we have found a block. We will update with more videos. AG
My goodness, I'd have had a damned heart attack by now, tear down the damned engine already!!! By the time it took you to make this video, I could have had this entire engine rebuilt and running!! ROFL!!!
Guaranteed, he got the engine home, dropped the carb stud into the manifold and didn't realize it, probably figured he misplaced the stud somewhere while installing his carb, and just put a different one in it's place. The engine runs for a few minutes until the stud finally works it's way into the cylinder, then badda bing, badda bip... magic!!
That's why he didn't take it back to the original builder, because the original builder would have called him on his BS! So to save face, and not take the blame where it belongs, he takes it to another engine builder, and claims the other builder must have done it! ROFLMFAO!!! Yeah, that carb stud was in that cylinder bouncing around for 10 minutes, and nobody knew or heard anything going on, it was fine, and then just all of a sudden, bang!!!... the other guy did it!! ROFLMFAO!! Yeah, OK Joe. ha ha ha
Nope,the stud unscrewed while idling for about 15min while i moved stuff around in the garage
Miller Automotive in boston Pennsylvania has a Pontiac 455 ready to run.
They build Pontiac and Oldsmobile and Chevy big blocks.
Thanks Vhp454. I will pass it on to Joe. AG
it sucks to lose an engine to a loose air cleaner stud. that was some great failure analysis. say this happed to a 454 in a Sanger drag boat. only it was a nut from one of the velocity stacks on one of the carbs on a tunnel ram. that block could probably be saved with a sleave. I am not a fan of sleaves in anything other than a restoration of a numbers matching show car. like a numbers matching DZ 302 Z28 or a LS6 Chevelle, a 400 or 455 T/A or GTO boss 302 mustang, etc. but those are show cars and not driven on the street or raced. if it was a weekend cruiser you may be able to get away with it if you never overheat it, but if you race it, eventually the sleave will fail from my experience. on road and off-road heave Diesels are a different story, most of those use a wet sleeve cylinder package and are designed to be replaced or rebuilt "In Frame". their sleave are much thicker than a gas engine sleave. one trick to making a sleave work long term is to stop any further cracks in the cylinder. by drilling the ends of the crack to prevent it from cracking more and intending into the deck or main webs. when the cylinder is bored to fit the sleave, you will be able to see the edge of the crack, find the ends of it and drill the crack so the crack can't continue up into the deck or down into the bottom of the cylinders. this prevents the cracks from getting worse once you press the sleave into the cylinder. i would also have the head pressure tested to make sure there are no cracks in the combustion chamber. some of those 455 heads are fairly thin wall castings. and if it was bad enough to crack the block, it is certainly capable of cracking the head. you wouldn't know until it was all back together, so i would go through the heads as well. double check all the valves and pressure test the head just to be sure.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience. AG
Cast piston came apart. That happens with carb wingnuts sometimes, carelessness!
Thanks Leonard. AG
Looks a bit long to go through the inlet valve, maybe it was dropped in before the head went on.....looks like the air filter threaded securing rod😕
Thanks Jim. Hard to believe for sure but i think that is what happened. You can't be too careful. AG
Engine builder didn’t do that, whoever put the carb/carb stud and air cleaner in didn’t use a stud that bottomed out in the carb, and also should have put a nut on the stud to lock it in the carb!
Correct Pockets. Thanks for the comment. AG
If it was only idling, that stud would have not made it past the throttle blades of the carb. Something fishy going on there....
It idled for about 15 min them I jumped in and put it in reverse gave it some gas to get it into the garage ( as soon as I hit the throttle you know )
Glad i use a tapered head bolt on my air cleaner lid. Its hard to find the hole though.
A head bolt will hold your breather down for sure. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 lol the bolt head is tapered. Sorry
I am amazed how that long stud could possibly get through a valve. I would think that if it could it would take multiple valve openings to get all the way through then in the process not hit the piston until it was in the cylinder. You should take that intake valve out of the head and see what the valve and seat look like as it should have some signs of damage.
Thanks Randy, I wouldn't believe it either if I didn't see it. I will check all that out. This Pontiac is next on the agenda. AG
He can see how much to weld up the cyl and sleeve it if he can't find a block reasonable. Or if it's matching numbers. I'm sure you know all this but people reading the comments may not.
That's what I was thinking, could even have a wet liner made and fix it into block for way less than 3 grand.
The later 455 has thicker webs around main bearings from what I understand (only having a 1976 Formula 400 😁)
I have a 1965 389 motor stripped but haven't got 400 apart to see what the differences are ( if any?)
Thanks Hugh, it was not the original engine anyway. We may have found one. will update on future videos. AG
bummer. i’m wondering how that made its way through the Venturi. A big item! could have been hanging around the plenum for some time? very unfortunate. i ruined an HO head one time via dropped valve. hurt my heart.
Thanks Catty, it is a heartbreaker for sure. AG
Hey brother, there is a 71' pontiac 455 long block on E-Bay for $750. It's says it's out of Jacksonville, Florida.
Thanks Hugh. AG
I'm working on a Pontiac 455 HO engine and would love to have one of those red parts trays you are using. Where can I get one of those? I'm also in Canada. If you can suggest something it would be appreciated. Thank you.
Thanks Captain. The parts trays are available on Amazon, juts type "engine parts tray" or also Summit.
AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Thanks Golds Garage! I guess I should have known it was that easy. Just didn't know what to call the thing but will order one now. Love your Camaro! I have a 70 Chevelle SS that is a similar blue color also with white stripes on it. Cheers from Alberta!
Sad video on this engine. A proper air cleaner stud with jam nut is the answer and lesson in this case...happier days lie ahead.
pretty devastating experience for sure Ed. We have a recovery plan in place. AG
It can be sleeved pretty easy...
Thanks Leonard, we may have another solution, but sleeving may also be an option. We will update you on future videos. AG
This is why you use a bolt and not a stud for air cleaner!! We want parts to stay put not become travelers!
Good point Larry. A tough lesson learned. AG
That is a new one on me, the breather stud?
Air filter stud, guess he misspoke?
@@1crazypj same thing isn't it?
Looks like an air cleaner stud, wasn't the builders fault, short pistons break like this and blocks when bolts are in any combustion chamber
Thanks for your comment Chris. AG
Block could be sleeved maybe?
You are probably correct but Joe has already sourced another block. AG
Does it have non adjustable rockers? Pontiac use too... That is a down fall on them.
Thanks Leonard. Not hare to convert them and you pretty much have to if you change the geometry. AG
@@goldsgarage8236 Thanks AG...
Is it possible to sleeve these blocks?
A recommendation to improve your videos: Activate "auto levels" in your camera or editing software.
Currently audio volume varies a lot, especially when using a rattle gun and trying to talk.
Thanks for the advice Tiitsaul! We will look into that. AG
The blocks can be sleeved. I have a '72 455HO/4spd block and it has a couple sleeves.
Scrap start over with a new long block.
Thanks Karl. Looks like we may have a doner block. AG
That sucks!
For sure, thanks for commenting Headflow. AG
Time for joe to enjoy a LS swap!!…..unless he gets lucky and finds a block……NOW can we all have a moment of silence for the 455 that is no longer with us
Thanks Trent. AG
Unless I was restoring an old Pontiac, I would not build a Pontiac.
Thanks for your point of view Keith. AG
Why not? They are relatively simple engines to build IF you understand they aren’t SBCs or BBCs
@@stevehicks8944 I do not like the way the main caps line up using dowel pins. The combustion chamber is just wrong, but can be improved using Edelbrock heads. The factory D shape exhaust ports is not good. Motor is too heavy. I have owned and like the old pontiacs, but the design is just out dated. Although I would love too get ahold of SD455 or Ram Air 4, these are worth a lot $$$$, but still old tech.
Lot of screaming but not much guts.
For real
Yes for real. AG
I have a 71 455 y c motor willing to sell if the make a good offer
Thanks Awful, I will pass your offer on to Joe. AG
not the fault or design of the Pontiac engine. The problem was who built./assembled the engine
The air breather stud fell into the engine. AG
Put a sleeve in it
Carb stud got dropped down the intake and worked its way down and smashed the engine. It happened and it shouldn't have. It was a accident. I've seen that 1 other time. But it was a intake bolt. My cousin dropped it down the intake before he mounted the carb. Oh it won't go anywhere he said. Oh yes it did. As soon as he started it he revealed the engine 3 times on the 4th BAM!!!!! BYE BYE LITTLE BIRDUE LOL. we were 17 or q8 at the time. We were green back then. Just kids. We never did that again lol. I dropped one down my intake of my 72 Chevelle. Slipped right past a open valve. Yup got to pull the heads back off to find it. We didn't have magic like camers and such back then lol. You will get him squared away as soon as he locates a block.
Thanks for sharing your experience Hugh. Experience is expensive. AG
Sleeve it! I’ve done it lots of times.
Thanks Conrad, yes that might be an option. AG
dont use cheap cast pistons!
Try looking at Frank's Pontiac Parts.😅
Thanks Kevin. Looks like we may have a solution. I will update toy on future videos. AG
Sorry, never-ending. Butler doesn't sell core block. I just went to his website for you and no go. They sell shirt block on up but no core blocks.
Thanks Hugh, we may have found one for Joe, I will keep you posted. AG
Awesome brother. I can't wait to see the new engine.
The rest I see on E-Bay they want 3 grand for them lol. They are getting very rare and people are proud of them things aren't they lol.
Thanks Hugh. AG
Pontiac block harder to find Evan block sick sick I understand how guy fill
Thanks Robert. AG
That sucks
Thanks for watching and commenting Jeff. AG
Butlers performance Pontiac out Mississippi have part's he kneed better get his pocket book open
Thanks Robert, we know about Butler. AG
He may want to contact Butler Performance and see what he has for blocks.
Thanks Hugh, Joe has found one. AG
That is great!!!! They are really getting rare now.
I wood go all out set butler performance H beam rod's set forge piston there guy in star sc have all Pontiac block any Pontiac parts you buy hold Pontiac 428 complete engine $600 buck I'm in ga state
Thanks for the info Robert. AG
Punch a hole through the piston...
Thanks Leon, worse than that, broke the piston and block. AG
Take it to a reputable machine shop and have them put a sleeve in that cylinder. That block can still be used, and everything will go back together. That way he does'nt have to swap in a piece of sh!t LS or other junk ass Chevy.
Thanks Bisquitboy, For sure, Joe is not thinking about a Chev or LS. It will be a Pontiac solution. AG
Sleeve it
Thanks Dennis. That may be an option. AG
FIRST OF ALL YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE A LEGACY ENGINE BACKED UP BY A MUNCIE M22 ROCK CRUSHER THAT HAS HAD PAUL CANGIALOSI'S HANDS IN IT ! WHY WOULD SOMEONE PUT AN AUTO TRANS ON A LEGACY ENGINE ? SO YOUR WIFE CAN DRIVE IT ? SO YOU CAN DRAG RACE ?
TAKING A 4 SPEED OFF OF AN ENGINE IS LIKE UNPLUGGING FUN....WHY ?
GOOD LUCK WITH THE REBUILD !
PUT THE 4 SPEED BACK, I MEAN PUT THE FUN BACK !!!
OH....GREAT CHANNEL ! LONG LIVE THE 4 SPEED !
Thanks for your comment Daniel. AG
I've got a great block for his build if he's interested so it is a 421 4 Bolt mains never been assembled from the factory no pistons no connecting no crankshaft doesn't have any serial numbers on it this was a cast block from the factory never assembled
Thanks Rob, This one has already been fixed and I am done the last three Pontiac's, but if anyone is interested, they can contact you through my channel. AG