RIP Engine - Dead Before It Ever Had A Chance. Break-In Period Goes Wrong, Time To Start Over Again
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- We tore down a nearly machine shop fresh Small Block only to find glazed cylinder walls, scuffed piston skirts and bearings.
The engine was assembled right, with good, new parts, but a break in session with a seriously rich fuel mixtures rendered the whole thing useless
Here's what happened and what you need to be aware of the first time you crank the key.
#classiccar #musclecar #engines #oil
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I spent about 6 years working for a British sports car specialist and engine rebuilds were a large part of our business. The owner of the shop was emphatic about the critical initial start and cam break in. The engines were always set up meticulously to start immediately, run properly and remain running at 2000-2500 rpm for 20 minutes. This also included the proper function of the cooling system. We never had any problems with our engines. My brother in law swapped his carb for an FI system and made several calls to the tech line to sort out the problems he was having with it's programming. Not what you want on a new engine. If you still have the old carb and intake, do the initial break in with that system and make the FI swap later. Might save a trashed rebuild. You said it yourself Tony, make sure you have a properly functioning intake system on a new engine. Just my thoughts.
That actually sounds like a great idea.
Personally I would rather have a good old fashioned carburetor instead of fuel injection any day, every day.
Solid advice!!!!
I agree I had a problem with fitech unit on my sbc. Was flooding engine then ecm failed on unit. I broke in with carb and drove car a good month before efi so got lucky. I had to change oil a few times with the fuel in oil. Would have not been that case im sure if I had efi from get go. I break all engines in with carb
Smokey Yunick says the same thing.
I’m an old fart still playing on hot rods and yet every time I tune into UTG I learn something. Good job Tony! And yes I run carburetors. And yes I have received more garbage parts in the last 2 years then ever before. So I too will rather scrounge the few remaining bone yards for old original parts if at all possible. Making do with a twist is what hot rodding used to be and is fast becoming again.
Show Uncle Tony and I some respect ! Proper spelling is Olde Phart!
@@stevepeyton9073 lol my sincerest apologies.
@@brianhdueck3372 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊
Most hotrodding now days doesn't use stock parts.maybe you donliken16 second cars?I prefer 7 ton8nsecond hotrods
What size of nitrous hit are you using on the blue car
Another thing I learned working on trucks is to limit idle time on a fresh engine. We would idle them long enough to get the t stats open top of coolant and check for leaks. Then they were hitched to a load and sent to work. Idling to long can cause the rings to fail to seat
Yup, more load=more cylinder pressure, and that means more gas pressure behind the rings pushing them into the cylinder wall, ensuring they wear in. I remember one used car I had that burned oil until I started beating on it and got the rings seated better or rattled loose or whatever. Once warmed up, a good full throttle pull to redline a day is essential to ring health.
The old guys I knew all said the same thing- throw away the break in procedure on a new car ( back when there was such a thing)- drive it like you stole it the first 2000 miles
About breaking in an engine... a very old friends father drove big trucks in the 1920's and 1930's. Those engines were after 40.000 miles stuffed with carbon and worn out bc of that carbon. Then the engine would be overhauled. Remember thats 100 years ago!!! Break in : first 300 miles max 15 miles per hour , next 300 miles max 20 miles per hour, next 700 miles max 30 miles per hour, next 1000 miles max 35 miles per hour, next 1200 miles max 40 miles per hour...Then finally after 3200 miles or so one was allowed 45 miles per hour untill engine was clogged up again with carbon. This friend father told NEVER to skip a step in this proces ..as the engine would seize 100 percent.
Compare that to a good built now and the break in proces is only 20 minutes or so. And in Nascar : hit it right hard as any minute after start up it looses power...😉
@@Baard2000 Well honestly 100 years ago the oil, fuel, compression ratio and metallurgy were completely different.
Today's chrome rings are breaking in to a finer bore hone and roller cams don't need a break-in.
an experienced engine builder told me to change oil and filter at 100 miles to get rid of the bulk of "break-in debris and assembly lube".
@@leinie6683 you will break the engine doing that
This is why when you break in an engine it's best to use a simple setup like a carb off a running engine or the stock efi. After the breakin you can switch to a fancy fuel makit happener
I retired from of an engine manufacturing facility. Freshly built engines were cold tested in test stands to check oil pressure, timing and other things. Cycle time 1/3rd or 1/4 the rate of production. This involved spinning the engine via an electric motor. They were not run. And we built both OHC and OHV engines. Cam wipeout was not an issue.
To a trained ear that loves the 318- that thing sounds PURR-FECT!!! YOU ARE GONNA DO THAT 318 PROUD! There is and has been for YEARS a silent majority of Mopar lovers that have a place in our hearts for that GREAT UNDERDOG ENGINE. I myself have many. started with 273, put those heads on a 318 with just the Edelbrock LD4B and a big (for the displacement 750 Holley), and outran stock 350 4bbl Chevies on top end with NO problem. The 350 WAS generally quicker out of the hole, and often in the 8th and Quarter, but we generally "ran them out" in BROAD CHANNEL, QUEENS NY in the seventies and the 318 ran better top end. Broad Channel several miles perfectly straight, with nothing but Jamaica Bay on either side. I'm glad Tony took the challenge with his old 318 against a 700+ horse newly built monster!
Nice!
I had a 318 diplomat. The mustangs and camaros would always pull me out of the hole, but get on a long legged run. That brick would disappear on em. I think it had 2:73 gears.
@@ericvoge6678 it was the gears, not the engine.
@@throbbinwoodofcoxley6830 NOT so, bonzo- LOTS of these over mile runs had almost the same highway gears. Ran some of these guys several times- that 318 saw the END of a number of brand x by blow up !!!
Something you might find interesting, when overhauling Cat engines, the recommended break in is start the engine, run long enough to build oil pressure, then up the idle to around 1,000 to 1,200 long enough to get the temperature to operating then shut down and inspect for leaks. If ok, then start up until oil pressure is up and operating temp is reached then run at maximum output for 20 min (wide openthrottle). After that run at varying rpm under load for another half hour. After that you are good to go back to work if no leaks are found. On heavy equipment this is relatively easy, on trucks it is best accomplished on adynamic.
Idling is NOT RECOMMENDED for new engines or fresh rebuilds, only just long enough to check for leaks.
We (at the cat dealer) run them on the floor only long enough to check leaks and other issues, then paint and off to the dyno. The dyno guy runs them for about a half hour under load. I did watch a guy let one idle for about an hour and it never seated the rings 1174ci d353, wouldn’t fit on the dyno.
I doubt that major auto makers break in their engines for 20-25 min--each. How much time would that add to the assembly line? Maybe they do, I don't know. If someone does know, please post how the big boys do break-ins for their motors. Thx
@@wsfwsf1497 they spin them over with compressed air, few seconds to make sure nothing connects, then few more bits & pieces fitted, bag over them and their good, pick out a couple from time to time and hot test them, that’s it, 👍
Full throttle on a cat motor, is reasonable, but not all engines are low rev design.
I agree that an engine should soon go to work, ...this avoids it being run in lazy, or with wrong wear pattern.
I also prefer to spin a motor up to oil pressure, before firing it's first beat, after a rebuild.
Thank you so many people I've talked to over the years have tried to tell me that if you want it to go hard flog the motor straight up. My belief is that it must be run in as several older,experiened engine builders taught me years ago.👍💯
Something that these companies don't tell you about these self learning systems! Yes indeed Tony you'll wash your cylinders and to help yourself if you do run a new self learning system for fuel injection!? Run a little 2 stroke oil in your fuel until you are done with the break in process and the computer is pretty much done learning! It will help protect your top end parts from being washed down from too much fuel! I've seen this happen before even with a carb, yes a Holley Dominator 1150cfm on a 509 BBC. Wasted the rings on a brand new engine In a matter of seconds from a properly adjusted float level, which dumped too much fuel into the engine even though it was running. It was way too much gasoline and it literally washes off any oil on the intake valve stems and the cylinder walls which is critical especially upon breaking it in! Hence the whole cross hatch of your cylinders, to be rough enough to allow the rings to wear in and conform and also to catch and hold oil in this break-in process, you remove the oil and your running the engine basically dry on solvent! Not cool when it's metal against metal! But good content for people who want to know this kind of stuff which is usually only found through real world experiences!
Uncle Tony, 19 out of 20 times when a self learning EFI goes that rich it’s a leak somewhere either on the intake side or the exhaust side. It pulls in additional unmetered air and the O2 sensor will see that additional oxygen and richen up the mixture. Rarely it could be poorly setup computer with too rich values.
But bottom line is that it’s operator error 99% of the time.
Choke problems on carbs cause way more problems than efi. In my opinion. Even with no choke fuel doesn't atomize properly in a cold engine. Opinions sell videos.
it won't matter on the intake side basically anywhere baring any single cylinder leaks the 02 would find that extra air and account for it especially if you have a map sensor now however with a big enough exhausts leak or a bad o2 sensor it will go rich pretty fast 19 out of 20 times maybe 10 out of 20 or half the time plenty of faulty sensors or backfiring from bad timing to Foul them up i find this problem alot on lt1350 even with factory perfect engines the egr releases enough carbon and oil back into the intake to foul up the map and maf sensors usually the 02 sensors follow big enough backfires can damage the map sensors to another thing ive seen happen and actually hydro lock my engines yes mine leaky injector they can reap havoc especially on throttle body efi where you cant really see them and you dont get a code set for misfire on cylinder blah blah blah but i agree 80-90%of the time some form of user error occurred not properly setting timing engine displacement or desired fuel ratios in settings not using a single plain intake or not being able to tell or tell the ecm a rough idea of the cam so it can figure idle vacuum and surge and a good amount of a.f.r knowledge is needed to set the targets up correctly especially out of the box where all they care about is throttle response and good starting
You really think tony is running O2 sensors lol
@@daniellachance9730 thats because you probably don't know how to properly inspeft and tune a carb. Make sure the thing works before it's in the car. Not that difficult.
@@contraband1543 I know how to tune a carb. Your an idiot to assume it's my carb I'm talking about. Been a mechanic for 45 years. Both systems have their in inherent problems. Get a life!
The I HATE CARS
Shirt looks awesome...
Glad to have been a part of it ...
Thanks
Uncle Tony Take comments with a grain of salt. We appreciate your content dude. Carry On Mopar Man
I always learn much from your engine forensics, Tony.
same
💯 right that efi systems will go fat on initial start up, I learned you actually need to limit the parameters before starting the new engine. . Knowing this little piece of information hopefully saves some good engines.
I had a locomotive do this recently. We had two fuel jumpers break a couple of months apart.
Greetings from the high plains of Texas.
I loved the 318 I had in a 67 Dodge Cornet 440. That thing ran for years with me being 17 years old, so you can believe that I was given it hell! Tony you rock! I'm here for the algorithm! Peace
Uncle Tony, the Sherlock Holmes of why this motor self-destructed
One other thing that will cause the issue is the finish of the cross hatch in the cylinders. Chrome rings need a lot courser finish, usually around 280 grit, than the factory iron rings do, around 400 grit. If the finish is wrong for the type rings you're using it'll glaze over too.
Know what you're going to use before final honing of the cylinders.
CORRECT,VERY CORRECT AND DAMN NECESSARY
Tony, I did some calculations on valve shrouding. And honestly the chrysler engineers got it right when they went with 1.92 valves on the magnum engines. I know this isnt your thing. But those EQ iron heads that are magnum heads with LA bolt pattern would work really well. I've been thinking about getting a set for a 360 build in one of my trucks.
If you can find it, you should read Walter P. Chrysler's autobiography.
He was an interesting man.
Another great educational video on the 318 and a wrong fuel mixture during a break in period. Although, I do not understand your T-shirt “I Hate Cars”??? 🤔
@@ewconway I do. Just like I hate Electronics also,cause I've been in both,as a retired EE and an Army Engineering Corp Gen Jock. Love it,Hate it! Been tinkering with Computers and Electricity and Cars all my life. Wouldn't change a Thing !😎 The "HATE" part comes in when your neighbors lawnmower is always needing work,cause he can't do it and doesn't also have the the tools either ! The same also with your own relatives ! Cause instead of learning from their Uncle while they were growing up,Guess what they were doing? Like everyone else,so it's Dad fix my car,DAMIT ! And his co-in crime,my sisters boy is the same way. Arrrg This is the Generation we have to take care of us? We're in trouble !
I had a 350 I rebuilt glaze the cylinders the exact same way. But it was with a Edelbrock carb that worked great before the rebuild but sat with ethanol in it during the rebuild. And didn't work so great after
Brilliant warning I never would’ve thought about Without you letting without you letting me know. Ethanol kills carbs
@@MrXerxes415 I could tell you need all the help you can get
I need a 318 . Mine is wore out . Purchased it in 2013 for 285.00. It’s a 87 318 . Best 285.00 I ever spent
So in a nut shell the owner had no idea what he was during and kept running it with fuel diluted oil and sealed its fate.
I saw Chris Birdsongs video, I was gonna mention Uncle Tony in the comments.
Had a 5.9 cummins once in the shop for excessive blow by and high oil consumption.
Had 2 bad injectors that ran it rich and is washed out the bore as we called it. Crosshatch was gone and the bore had a mirror like shiny finish. Over fueling can be one of those things that is overlooked.
Great explanation here as always.
1.72 60 foot is enough of a leave to get you well into the 12s.
I am curious gow much the 727 is going to affect that number. Footbreak with a loose converter
Only if you have the power.
Nothing beats a video with a good story. Thanks Uncle Tony. 😊
I enjoyed my Holley 750 double pumper, mechanical linkage with my 293 cam. .550 intake, .565 exhaust on a 10° lobe. It's sweet and makes new Era Mustang and Camaro owners change their shorts. 2500rpm converter with 4.20 gears all in an antique 74 Nova Coupé. It's really fun when I uncork the Hooker ceramic headers. Sorry, Tony I'm using an HEI, which wasn't available until 75, but it fits along with the single wire alternator.
Love what you do man.
The kind of oil used in the break-in process is vital to proper seating of all the moving parts. When I broke-in my old 64 Poly 318 I used Valvoline oil and a Fram filter, but after it was well seated I changed over to Penzoil and Penz-filter, because it was free at the shop I worked at back then, and it had developed a constant leak around the oil filter base plate, the only leak on tge whole enging, so I figured it was the plate under the filter & it had come loose or was slightly scratched, or bent so I tried to fix with another set, including a new plate and gasket which slowed the leak almost completely, but it still seeped a little between oil changes. I drove it for a while like that until one day I saw an oil & filter change special at a parts store which was Valvoline oil and a Puralator filter, so to save 5 bucks off normal price, I changed it and run it long enough to need changing again. When I went to remove the filter I noticed that perpetual leak had finally stopped, so I've been using Valvoline oil since that day. Never had another leak even after 20-25 hard running conditions. Go with Valvoline Gals and Guys if you have seeping seals and gaskets, it could save you a ton of money.
Another Awesome Video Uncle Tony!!!
sounds like the filter was too loose but i wasnt there and im not familiar with the engine. interesting thought though
@@Videoswithsoarin Seriously? 😅🤣😅🤣🙃 LMBOAO🤣😂😅😆😁
The old polysphere 318s were fantastic engines, and Chrysler should have stuck with that design in my opinion.
Always break in with a known tuned carb that has a good mixture. It only has to run at 2000 rpm 30 minutes or so then you put on the EFI or new carb and tune for performance.
Tony Tony come on man at 11:23 you installed that piston completely wrong ! I thought for a second I was watching DD Speed Shop 🤣
It’s not the fault of EFI . You can wash a bore with a rich carb too. 🙄
Uncle Tony, another great vid. I don't think I've ever watched one of your vids where I didn't learn something new!!
1 correction. Chris said he would never run a throttle body style efi again. He did say that he would have no issue running a multi point style injection.
What happen to putting a turbo on that slant 6?
Stubbie probably not showed up to work on his own car or there's financial issues
I sub to Chris and (obviously) you. You guys couldn't be more different in your content and delivery but I love both your channels. Cheers from Calgary.
Absolutely spot on sir .
That just explained why my dirtbike constantly has burned oil since i did the top end on it. Been trying to figure that out for like 3 years.
Unless you are running two stroke :P
@@FawkesTrue nope. Chinese 4 stroke
I was driving a fresh rebuild 302 and within 20 miles I was smelling gasoline. The fuel pump diaphragm gave out and there were 3 extra quarts of "oil" on the dip-stick.
I towed it home and replaced the pump and fresh oil - no damage.
Well said...good man!
I've had bad luck with the bolt on efi units also. I never really got away from carbs, but just tried the efi on one vehicle. Definitely not sold on it
not sure but it might be problems with the self-learning feature? I know that those bolt on self learning efi systems rely completely on the oxygen sensor to tell the ecu whether it is running rich or lean and it corrects itself from there. But if there was something with the exhaust gas that tricks the sensor during break in period like maybe burning oil until the rings seat or something maybe that could have an effect and cause it to run too rich or something.
oil premix the gas during break in like a two stroker? easy way to play it safe regardless of a bad fuel system or not. bonus points for staying in the garage with closed doors while the break in procedure.
EFI, even if it says plug and play, you got to check it out and set some parameters. You dont just slap a new carb on and go....you cant with out of the box electronics either.
I slapped a new carburetor on my truck, and all I had to do was adjust the idle and choke. I will never trust a computer to do something automatically that I could do much more effectively manually. It's like those crappy digital radios that "seek" a radio station, or "detect" a cassette. All these digital settings when two knobs suffice.
Great videos! Thanks
I learned a lot here today everything always come back to basics.
The cam/lifter thing is because that's the most popular bolt on, as opposed to building a complete engine.
I’ve encountered oil glazing on tired old Ford 250 straight sixes in the Bush in Western Australia which had worn guides that were pouring oil into cylinders. Not what diluted oil did on your example. Wow that was a lot of damage. These old beaters I encountered had kept going well past their use by date but what we would do is swap a redone head in and hope we had enough compression to get it started. The oil had sealing the rings enough to keep the engine limping along but they often wouldn’t start with the new head because the cylinder walls were dry. So we would put some oil in the cylinders or failing that stick some Bon Ami powder down the carby and that would reseat the rings. Aussie Scotchbrite, I suppose.😮
My favorite channel hands down. 🙏🏽💯👍🏽
I’m going through this exact thing. Fuel thinning oil out while self tuning. Had 2 Holley injectors fail and while self learning the other cylinders were trying to make up the difference. Ended up spinning a bearing within 200 miles
damn soulless sorry to hear that. ugh tht blows brotha get her back up an runnin soon.
Mann this channel is a bad influence on me 😂 im saving up for late/G body or dodge dart.
23 and nothing else to loose lmfaoo
Pretty nice valve reliefs in those Pistons
KB167. I'm using a set right now.
You need to run .030" top ring gaps with those.
Hey Tony! You said something about the camshaft wear pattern looking good, and tried to show the piston skirt scuffing. Could you do a video for those of us that aren't familiar with what wear patterns (or general wear) are ok and what aren't? Stuff like camshaft wear, bearing wear, lifter face wear, piston skirt wear.
I like to find information through books and forums, but I really haven't found anything much that says "this is what normal wear after x time looks like" and "this wear is bad, the part should be replaced". There really doesn't seem to be much recorded information on that kind of stuff, or it's really hard to find because of the dogshit search algorithms we have nowadays.
dogshit algorithms and armchair warriors. most of the time i am looking for information i find a forum started by someone asking the same or related question to what i have and 90% of the time the replies are "why are you doing that do it like this" nothing helpful just opinion
Would love this. Especially now that replacing parts as a precaution "while you're in there" can buy you more trouble than good.
So the glazing is like when you season your cast iron skillets :)
Hard to cook pancakes on a block though.
the breakin on a new engine or refurb engine,is critical,make or break,the pistons adhering to the walls is paramount to good power,whether 150hp or 550,perfect valve sealing, piston ring sealing and a crank that's clearanced correctly and it'll run 250 k miles with many oil and filter changes,he's right on all of this video,nobody knows more than the one who tears them apart and then learns the correct way to assemble,he's got the years,a master mechanic,i've listened to him,47 years here
I'm glad that the block can be saved 😁👍🏼
Good stuff. That is the first time I saw a 318 with notched pistons.
you gotta love the 318! they can be pretty nasty little engines and there still everywhere and dirt cheap in any salvage yard, yeah I rather have a 340 or a 360 but for the price and availability, the 318 is awesome if you're just trying to get into a v8 and get rid of that leaning tower!
Man Tony, I just DON'T know how you creators do it. The dealing with the daily trolls, know-it-alls and arm chair mechanics. Just about EVERY channel I sub to has had a "rant" video dealing with one or more of those issues. Hat's off to ya Brother, I enjoy your channel and currently restoring our '65 Chevy C10. Learning from TH-cam University LOL
TH-cam University- "The everyman's route to honest learning without the bullshit"
@@chazzcoolidge2654 and NO college debt for other people to pay
I had a very rich condition at idle for a few days until I've figured the exhaust was pulling air through the AIR system which wasn't hooked up properly. I will open it up soon because the head gasket failed. It pulls well but it could still be damaged. You definitely need to have an o2 sensor you can monitor, IMO. I have a wide band on the right bank and NB on the left that is stock, but the NB seems to be good enough and it's very close to the WB up to 12:1, (I use a convertion look up table for volts to AFR)
The EFI was installed wrong.
I put a new stoker together for my 85 cj7 about 2 years ago after my old one had blown a crack in cylinder # 1 were it had a rusted thin at the water jacket. That motor had 540k on it (oil change ever 2000 miles religiously and a well tuned Holley 465 vac operated secondaries carb with manual choke . This new build used a 93 4.0 Jeep 6 cyl block, a 258 offset ground to use a slightly longer rods than 258 for less side wall pressure custom KB pistons .060K over with full floating wrist pins a 18cc dish to drop compression to 10 -1 Oversized LS valves and a custom cam that's built for Gollan engine by comps cams and many other goodies. decided its time to go Modern (FYI this is my daily Driver and has been for 15 years only other vehicle i have is a 28' ford roadster pickup" that's never been rebuild or mechanically sorted Very SICkLY these days. ) WELL I went all in with sniper efi and self learning distributer ect ect.. its been a disaster.
was pegged rich during break up had to shut it down after 5 min due to smelling gas's. manually locked out the controller and set were it should be too complete break in. then tbs sensor failed saying it was reading engine temp of -25 degrees dumping 250% fuel then 2 weeks later ecu went and was stuck driving 95 year old truck 85miles a day round trip to work for 3 weeks untill i receved my unit back from holley. All was good for a few weeks until i was haling a load on a trailer and the automated fan controls decided to stop kicking on the electric fan and i overheated at a red light. after talking to holly was told id have to send back in as its an ecu problem again.. I opted to get a separate fan control module. then 4 wheeling 12 miles on a trail my engine quite and had to get it towed out of there, after a week i found out one of the injector plugs fell off the injector inside the actual unit, (rubber plug with no clips to hold it in place. then a month latter my internal fuel pressure regulator started failing raising the fuel pressure to the injectors form 58.5psi to 110Psi (and yess i have correct 100 pre pump and 10 micr post ump filters) Pluss a 250micron filter directly after the tank before the 100 micron) making it run supper rich AGAIN! so i ripped that out of the unit and installed an in line one. then the beginning of July she started bucking and jumping and farting doing all types of weird wearied stuff acting like fuel starvation then the next thing you know acing like like the gas's peddle was on off switch, then massive backfires, then massive kick backs as during starting, at first i thought is was fuel related ran through whole system and replaced fuel filters and regulator and finally i gave up pulled the carb off the shelf with my HEI distributer and swapped back. when tearing out the EFI stuff i took the dissy cap off and found out it had exploded inside the signal fingers literally ate the pickup the pickup[ was moving freely back and forth by 15 degrees' Im luckily i didn't totally ruin my engine. but i know i definitely did damage and took some years off its life since swapping back to the analog i she hasn't as much as a hickup.
I can't wait for Bottle Rocket to make a clean pass. I don't know what those others heard, but my ears heard a very healthy 318. I didn't hear any breaking up or "laying down". It sounded pretty fierce to me. I did 13.4 with a lousy 2.0 short time (my car is set up for corner burning, not dragging). Judging from the 8th mile times he's got at least as much power as me (probably more) so, all things considered I'd think Bottle Rocket would be good for mid 12s off the bottle at the very least. I wouldn't bet against it being even quicker than that though.
This turned into a rant, but what the hell some of its funny, not direct at you, Jim, I suspect you will know just what I am talking about here. And man I cannot wait to see these kids schooled.
Bottle Rocket.... Where to start. i think a lot of guys dissing bottle rocket either never saw the early episodes and discussion of the old street racing scene, or they don't realize that just because nowadays the modern scene is all fuel injected and turbocharged, that those changes are because they are how you street race a modern beater POS that a kid can afford the entry level craigslist price and start scrimping and grinding their way to power. Street racers today are rarely going out there in early 70s taxicabs with 318s and carbs because frankly all that stuff is way more expensive and harder to source and work on in the modern era. But here is the thing: a 318 can make a metric crap load of power, just like it could 40 years ago, and frankly the differences in performance between street cars based on crappy junkyard 70s cars, and the results kids get today is a lot less than you think. Most of the improvements in major power came in the last decade, before that, car makers were making fuel injected cars that were more reliable, better mileage, more driveable under changing conditions, objectively more affordable feature for feature, and notably NOT looking at power. Can you get stupid power out of 2017 and up modern muscle? yes. That doesn't really exist in 2010. A lot of guys in these comment have what they think is a fast car (usually a truck actually, times change) they think Tony's 318 and former taxicab is a joke. This is because, nowadays a modded car is a status symbol. But in Tony's youth, his car was a business. People raced for money a LOT, the best were able to fund their hot rod hobby, even transition into the pros. That's where Tony comes from, he's a guy who grew up building cars specifically designed to make cocky lightweights certain they could beat them....
Because that is how you make money. By fielding a car everyone laughs at, and by keeping them thinking you're a clown right up until they find themselves wondering how they could have lost to a rusty old cab. Bottle Rocket is a Master Class on the art of the sleeper, on how to run the old school street race hustle. You think its coincidence that nobody has EVER seen Bottle Rocket actually run a clean pass? That all we hear about it is the frustrating series of broken parts and missed chances? And that a big race for huge bragging rights and a good chunk of cash with a pretty famous internet hot rod and a damned good builder is weeks away?
Guys, Casper is a fast car. We know that. We have seen it. Nobody knows what bottle rocket will do. But one of the great rules of strategy is never start a land war in Asia. Wrong one. Never race against a grumpy old guy with a beard when death is on the line. No wait, thats sicilians in old movies. Never race against a grumpy old guy with a grumpy old crap dodge when cash is on the line ! yeah that's it. You can bet Casper and her crew havent forgotten that.
Bottle Rocket is a sleeper, the kind of car Tony built and drove and became one of the founders of Early Modern North American IC performance. Guys like David Vizard know Tony's phone number, for Pete's sake. Along with a few others Tony basically turned the fox body mustang from a joke into a legend. He had a respectable career in hot rod journalism, ushered in the era of big power nitro, but because that happened before youtube, a lot of guys dont know it exists. There are no guarantees in racing, but Bottle Rocket is a sleeper. Everything we know about Bottle Rocket has been hand fed to us by a master of street racing hustle who has forgotten more than any of us know about squeezing cars for every ounce of power, traction, and the sweet spot that brings them together over a single drag strip pass. I could forgive some of these clowns for their swagger in these comments over 'that crappy 318' as simple stupidity but for god's sake he straight up told us he was building a sleeper when it all started, and some of you STILL don't see that you're getting played. They are being taught a valuable lesson, actually, because chances are within a few weeks all these guys will be much more wary when some crusty old guy stubbornly claims his old bess can whip your rice burner anyday or whatever the schtick is... Tony is about to teach you not to take that bet.
Dominator on a 318!! I cant wait !! Keep the great vidoes coming ! Looking forward to the test mule!!
Few years ago my cousin paid somebody to build an engine car. He could have done it just didn't have time it's been a while. 79 Ford and he got a deal on the paint job for about 6 or $8,000. It's got ghost flames in it put on new tires they were big I don't remember what it was lifted it did everything nicely it's a very nice truck it might be pushing $40,000 now in value because it's all fresh. Except for it ate out the cam. Yeah he put the zinc additives in and what have you. Assuming that it doesn't need to have a line board done for the cam, it ate the next cam out. He really doesn't want to pull that 400 out of that truck and tear it down. It cost him probably $4,500 to have that engine modestly enhanced and rebuilt. Some of these dollars amount may not be impressive. That was 20 years ago. Always taking it to a couple of car shows but not recently it's something him and his daughter really loved at the time. So his truck sets apart. So not getting it right the first time has cost them probably about fourth of a lifetime of enjoyment of this truck! So just because you throw money at the situation doesn't mean you won't end up with a problem. Think how much money that would be today. So it's a little things that come back to bite you and they usually can be avoided. Enjoy your video listening to it while I'm messing around my C10. Going back to my mind making sure that I rechecked everything before I start it.
I'm a carburetor guy myself...!!!!
Carburetor adjustment can be a pain at times but less things to fail...
Although EFI is great, I still love the way a carbureted engine sounds and feels...
I'm as old school as I still am a TOYS-R-US kid..
I always wanted, since the 80's, a 318 diplomat, built twin turbo or big single, 727, etc... had the diplomat in '87, but lacked the funds to build it.
I built a 302 for a Z28 about 30 years ago and the owner took it right to the body shop to get painted. The body shop supposedly had trouble getting it started and let it run a bunch of times with the choke on. Did the same thing to the motor, in the end nobody was happy
Another way this can happen to a motor is heat. I had a motor that would boil the fuel in the carb during summer after you shut it down. That fuel would then recondense in the intake manifold. Next time you started it, you'd just be throwing gas straight into the cylinders. I ended up putting on an aluminum intake and a phenolic carb spacer, but it was a lesson learned the hard way. 😔
Good vid UT! Haha I like the poke with the big carb for a 318... I'm gonna have to watch your comments now lol.
I've been watching Chris's (junkerup#chrisbirdsong) channel for longs time. His vids are more gooder than peanut butter! What he doesn't know about Chargers would take less space than one of Tony's rolling papers. Tony you and Chris should do a meet up some time, it'd be a good show.
I don't think Birdsong likes Tony. When the "flipped piston" drama came out, he was one of THE first to talk shit about UT, right after the flip flop jock (freidburger) and the raging drunkie (dulcich.)
@@guitarminds8529 Lol, before my (UTG) time, but makes sense. I think both can be a bit opinionated, lol.
Lol. " Cars been cursed" EFI manufacturers should include a custom break in base map made around your configuration and other proper support. Thanks so much for your knowledge. Im a longtime builder. I agree with just about all of your content. You Rawk.
More & more issues with EFI. I built my 1967 Chevy 327 last winter .030 over, used Molly rings Comp Cam hyd flat tappet cam, cast SivOlite pistons, Seal Power bearings, Mellings high pressure standard volume oil pump. A pair of 1979 Vette 881 heads & factory aluminum intake and a matching Q jet carb was also rebuilt & used for a stock rebuild for my daily driver 70 chevelle. Every part of the block & heads were fully machined to come up with 9.25 to 1 comp. to run on 87 octan pump gas. The crank was ground .010/.010. The rotating assemble was balanced and the block was aline bored and all hardware was replaced with ARP. Seems like alot of work for a daily driver, but after a correct cam brake in and 3 oil changes the motor now has 3,500 miles on it, water temp all summer never got over 180 degreesin stopped traffic and oil pressure is 70psi cold and 55 hot at 820 rpm. To date, I have not had to add any oil ever between oil changes and with new push rods & rockers plus poly locks in the 327, it is running quit like a clock. All this means to me is don't try anything new----- USE WHAT YOU KNOW WORKS You can't go fast until you know how to make it dependable. I expect to get over 200,000 miles out of this 327 as I always get between 250K and 325K miles out of stock 327s before the cam & lifters or shim gaskets give up. The little 318s are not much different. With fuel cost going up & up small blocks will be our future as feeding over 400 cubes will be out of most people's budget very soon.
Engine plates, distributor up front, dry intake. Easy build. Just like a Pro-Stock Cleveland. Right, Tony?😉
Until you have to deal with the shock towers it is nestled between.🤣
@@sadwingsraging3044 No shock towers on Pro-Stockers.😉
always had a soft spot for the 318’s Mopar in general but that’s an unsung hero😂.
do you need to shim the crank pulley with the motor plate ?
I learned a very hard (Expensive) lesson about gas diluting engine oil and ruining the engine when a power valve ruptured in my six pack 340 from bad gas.
I ran a new built a little bit lean and with mineral oils and ZDDP it took a while for pistons to seat and finally it’s good now. Don’t get discouraged some engines take time for piston rings to seat. Now that the motor is good I set the fuel ratio correctly
Great video information but I have a question. I bought a 86' 318 to put in my 66 Barracuda to replace the 273 because I read that block is a roller cam block and you might have pointed that out in one of your videos. I don't plan or racing I just love the big cam sound, so the question is roller or flat tappet??
thank you tony its nice to find some one who knows what they are about
HOWdy U-T-G,
Thanks for the STORY
COOP
...
I laughed at that car, stupid me, should of never doubted sir Tony. Car is a beast.
Had a fuel pump diaphragm bust where it was pumping gas into the block of my 198 /6 that took me a bit to figure out why I smelt gas with no leak and the dipstick oil could be lit off with a lighter. Didn't hurt the engine since I caught it pretty quick.
Had a 400 Cordoba do that I fixed it no problem, just couldn't stop the rear seal from dripping, failed twice, but I was willing to live with that, rather than pull the motor.
i subbed Chris some 3 years ago!Just watched his vid you talk about today!
If you flooded the carb when trying to start a new build would you recommend dumping and refilling the oil? would this be the same principal on a rich carb set up?
I think you just saved my ass! Thank you!
A buddy of mine just fired a 460 he rebuilt, machine shop had issues. He fired it up and ran good for about 10 seconds. Then clatter and bangs. The cam flat spotted and metal in the oil pan big time. He told he had trouble putting the cam in like the bearings were to thick. Had machine ream them. A Lunati cam and it's junk so is the engine now.
My brother had a late 60s dart with a 318. He ran that motor at full throttle all through high school. Raced anything that moved. He stuck 33s on it from a older jeep and tried to blow the motor in a mud pit, and ultimately ended up pulling stuck ford and Dodge Ram out and drove everyone home. We couldn’t kill that motor no matter how hard we tried. The tranny went shortly after and it sold for scrap in the late 90s. I wish he still had it
Hay Tony people at total seal piston rings said not use a.t.f. on assembly of engine because of anti wear additives in it.
Cracking vlog again UT .
✌️🇺🇲✌️🇬🇧
Hey Tony i live in europe the netherlands, i run all my American v8 engines on LPG/propane with IMPCO systems.
Will this type of fuel also couse this kind of damage when set up wrong?
Gas is expansieve here 2,35 per liter and i drive my classics daily
Greets Benny from Holland
fo sure brotha Lp burns way way hotter than gas. it can deff cause this very fast. they burn our plugs out on our LP gas trucks we have to replace plugs every 10K miles lol
Aye Ton, could you show us the cam and explain a good break in pattern on a cam? That would be interesting. Thanks for the content.
That's a sweet little motor. Minimal effort and it'll be up and running strong.
Do you put assembly lube on the rings ? And what assembly lube do you recommend ?
Tony please give your thoughts on the range for your air fuel mixture poor for break-in
You are awesome, please keep it up.
LOL. Misfires ? NOT ON MY WATCH ! 🙂
Same
I learned never to trust used parts without inspecting the hard way. When I was in my teens I bought an Olds 455 that the guy swore was "just rebuilt". Looked great from the outside and I needed to get my car running so I could get to work without spending hours on a metro bus each way. I got to drive it once. It ended up having a hole in the #1 piston I could put my finger through. I will never not tear down an engine before using again.
Go get them Tony MOPAR boy from down under. Tony index the spark plugs 👍🏻
I have a 468 in a jet boat, and the guy i bought it off of has 50w high end oil in it. he was a dirt track racer so i figured it was a thing? is that a thing? or is a bearing shot and he put it in there to keeps it from knocking? seems a little down on power so would like to switch to a 40w?
Had a very similar issue. The hypertec piston clearance and ring gap is a bit different than the usual cast or forged pistons. I will never again touch another set of hyper junk pistons or a GD flat tap cam. Never.
so you set it up wrong and blame the pistons? if hyper eutectic needs different clearance use what it needs
@@Videoswithsoarin dam. Never thought about that. Thanks for the experienced expert advice. Just wondering what the clearance and gap should be. Oh, and exactly how many engines have you built? Oh, I would also recommend that the absolute first chance you get, Go Fuck Urself.
Uncle Tony, here in Brazil we use fueltech wich is a brazilian efi Company in a lot of cars, original classic cars, turbos, and 1000+ Hp cars, and fueltech have sales and offices in usa, very tested and aproved product by the fastest cars owners in the world.