I know the editing is pretty bad right now. I'm gonna correct it soon but basically what happened is that I had a hard deadline and I was doing the last audio editing when I got some really bad news. I didn't want to push back the video so I ended up with fucked up audio and didn't double check it. It really sucks cause I wanted so badly to provide something basically perfect, and I really didn't manage anything like that... Thank you for the support, everyone! Almost 2k views in two days is amazing... The thing mentioned in the description is still gonna happen. I just need a little more time. I don't lead a particularly stable life and finding time that I'm emotionally available can be hard :fire:
If you've got errors to point out that you think I might miss (not the major audio error, cause trust me, I'm not missing that. I'm redoing the audio asap) but little visual things
@@wrenisprobablyb0red is your character supposed to be there at 4:16 ? cuz its not there, or did you decide to not put it there? I also spotted a probably unintended netflix logo at 8:13 , the ithailian venn diagram dissapears for a sec at 14:13 , the background dissapears at 14:16 and at 14:26 you can see the ithailian venn diagram text for a split sec
Video is still amazing Wren, it was so much fun to watch (even though I'm not smart enough to understand half the things). Ik you aren't looking into the side of how connecting languages into a macrofamily can be important to nationalist agendas but I think that's super interesting. I'd definitely love to do some research on that myself.
To be honest this isn't even THAT insane. A lot of expressions are the same in English and Japanese for example in parts of the UK and in Japan a "Sunshower" is called "A fox's wedding" (狐の嫁入り)... it's still insane though.
Lumpers definitely have point in saying that language families are probably more connected than we think. The issue lies in actually knowing those connections, some of which which we either can't ever know, and others we might know, with future developments. It's kinda arrogant or at least very irresponsible to claim otherwise.
I'm not a professional linguist of any kind but from what I've gathered the similaries altacists say the altaic langauges have (agglutinative, vowel harmony etc.) possibly originated from an ancient sprachbund that the various "branches" were apart of rather than a language family. e.g Their proto languages were all probably passing through Manchuria (or some other region to the west or southwest) at some point in the past and while they were there they influenced each other, before spreading out and forming their respective language families.
Anti-Nostratic heads will never understand that all man is brother. In all seriousness, the machinations of these are so insane but I really like the Nostratic family as a batshit insane theory. One particular figure I know of who was early to the foundation of the Nostratic School was Illich-Svitych. He was a Ukrainian Linguistic during the Soviet era who did a lot of major work with the study of Balto-Slavic developments. But his major passion project was Nostratic and he was in the processing of writing a major dictionary of proto-Nostratic before he died in a car accident just outside Moscow. I like to think as a joke that he was on the verge of proving it. Regardless, there is a version of said dictionary online but it’s in Russian.
Yoo, new video! I find the Altaic hypothesis quite interesting but, as you said, it's a shame the Altaicists are so defensive trying to "protect" it instead of doing/applying a more linguistic method (that could reveal something solid). I definitely should take a more deep look at it, though. Anyway, good vid! Continue with the great work :D
Yes! The perfect excuse to talk about the stupid project I've been making for a while now, a conlang called Proto Anglo-Japonic (PAJ) that is meant to be the "reconstructed ancestor" of both English and Japanese. Anybody can see that name and 'namae' (名前). 'Suna'? (砂) Why, that's sand! And 'kataru' (語る) is clearly chatter. And most undeniably, the '-nai' (ない) ending is cognate with no! It's actually a really fun to point out similarities and create bizarre sound laws. What's funny is that it's unironically more convincing than Altaic' despite being obviously more absurd! The main reason I'm able to do this is by having every PAJ phoneme correspond to multiple in the descendent language, and often nothing at all. Maybe if I was smarter I could find some roundabout way of making it all consistent, but whatever :P I'm proud of what I have so far. Here's a vocab list, including suffixes: (Don't ask what the apostrophes after plosives mean. I don't really know either.) atátakə - fight (EN attack: JP tatakau [戦う]) ad’e - at (EN at: JP de [で]) eni - in (EN in: JP ni [に]) elksur - medicine (EN elixir: JP kusuri [薬]) egə - subject marker (EN I, ego: JP ga [が]) irl color (JP iro [色]) irld' - literally "distinctive color", red (EN red) o - polite vocative particle (EN O as in "O king": o [お]) əswet - sweat (EN sweat: JP ase [汗]) manó - person, thing (EN man: JP mono [者, 物]) maštig’ - mistake (EN mistake, JP machigau [間違う]) mir - see (EN mirror, mirage: JP miru [見る]) namae - name (EN name, -onym: JP namae [名前]) naštúlg’ - being fond of (EN nostalgic: JP natsukashii [懐かしい]) nug’ - nude (EN naked: JP nugu [脱ぐ]) par - far [EN far: JP haruka [遥か]) pilat - flat [EN flat, plate: JP hiratai [平たい]) pone - bone [EN bone: JP hone [骨]) p'ansu - bounce (EN bounce: JP hazumu [弾む]) b’lead’ - blade, leaf (EN blade: JP ha [葉, 歯] Yeah, I know that phonologically evolution is ABSURD, but it's the same rules I'm following elswhere! d’o - door (EN door: JP to [戸]) d’yonpu - jump, fly (EN jump: JP tobu [飛ぶ]) ka - question marking particle (EN huh? JP ka [か]) kauntu - number (EN count: JP kazu [数, from Old Japanese (kantu)]) kabur - cover, wear (EN cover: JP kaburu [被る]) kaz - faint (EN hazy: JP kasuka [微か]) kalaw - empty (EN hollow: JP kara [空]) ke - hair (EN hair: JP ke [毛]) kiə - (JP ki [木]) koŋg’nae - consider, think (EN cognitive, know: JP kangaeru [考える]) kyatár - talk (EN chatter: JP [語る]) g’raš - grass (EN grass: JP kusa [草]) sid’ə - lower, sit (EN sit, set: JP shita [下]) so - like (EN so: JP sou [そう]) su - inhale (EN suck: JP suu [吸う]) snad’ - sand (EN sand: JP suna [砂]) šotə - outside (EN out: JP soto [外]) šupe - up (EN super, up: JP ue [上]) šəká - red (JP akai [赤い]) šəkáirld' (šəká + irld') - bright red (EN scarlet) šəkákiə (šəká + kiə) - red tree (EN acacia) štad’u - stand (EN stood:, state JP tatsu [立つ]) hourl - throw (EN hurl: JP houru [放る]) wa - individual, we (EN one, we: JP watashi, ware [私, 我]) -ed’a - past tense marker, dummy subject/copula (EN -ed, it: JP -ta, da [た, だ]) -eba - conditional suffix (EN if, ever: JP -eba [えば]) -ekə - adjective forming suffix (EN -ic: JP -ka [か as in kasuka 微か]) -ena - adjective forming suffix (EN -en, JP na, no [な, の]) -i - adjective forming suffix from nouns (EN -y: JP -i [い])
This is brilliantly cursed. I am really curious what series of sound changes you dreamed up to get both the Japanese and English modern words from those proto-words like b’lead’.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Oh god that one... welp, here goes. b' and d' become and p and t, just because. The l is lost in a consonant cluster multisyllabic word. (Again, most of these rules are yet to be set in stone.) This leaves peat. Final t is always lost, ea simplifies to a, and p becomes h like it did in Old Japanese, leaving ha.
It’s common ancestor is one level up, in a sister branch with PAJ that also includes Khoi-San, (specifically) British English, and the Antarctic languages.
Something happened to my first comment, not sure what. Take 2! Opinions: I do think there has to be some relation between Japonic and Koreanic (if not genetic then at least in terms of early influence). As well, I'm sure there has to be some relation between one of the """"Altaic"""" langs and another. Just, y'know, we have hardly any documentation of them before the 700s. I like how dynamic your editing is. it fits your sona well. Your lineart also fits it well. You did pretty well in spite of it all. Don't kill yourself over your project. Also don't underestimate the amount time you will need. Take it from me. But in any case, mad props for sticking to your deadline despite the problems. That takes humility and steadfastness, and I appreciate that. Either way I'm subbed now. I'm sorry to hear of the bad news. I hope you're doing better. Even the darkest moments are a gift.
From the earliest Anatolian inhabitants (Hittites, Hurrians) to the Ural Mountains and Japan, there is a continuous sea of languages with a suffixing structure and a subject-object-verb word order. Even the Sumerians, whom we know were not Indo-European or Semitic, spoke such a language. The Indo-European language family has been extensively studied, and its methodology has influenced the study of other language families. However, this methodology might not be suitable for all language families, especially those that are much older or have undergone significant changes.
Seems like he was inserting material after the fact but got the timing off. Though this is how it landed with me. The online dog guy would sometimes just stop with his mouth hanging silently open like "I don't even know what to say about this Altaic nonsense", and then someone from the audience would start talking very loudly because they can't cope with silence.
Kingbeauregard is essentially right. I was in the final stage of audio editing when I got some really bad news and since I'd already announced the release time, I panicked and only got this like 90% finished, and maybe 30% of where it'd be in an ideal world
@@wrenisprobablyb0red I'm hoping things are better now, or on their way to getting better. Please take care of what's important. Also, I enjoyed this video; thanks for making it!
@@wrenisprobablyb0redTbh these small moments were pretty funny to me. But yeah don't be afraid of spending the time you need, hope you're doing well fellow gay person
As someone who has done some research on Altaic myself, let me try to rehabilitate the proposal a bit, although I do reject it as such also. It is not absurd to claim a relationship between some individual members, but not all. Frankly this is not to disparage your video, but the topic is far deeper and I see most youtubers who speak on it, tackle it only superficially. First of regarding the history of the hypothesis. Altaic is odd in that it started with a rejection rather than a proposal. The first western scholars, notably Strahlenberg, wanted to disprove the relationship between Turkic and Mongolic (Altaic was originally limited to Turco-Mongolic, Tungusic was added later and Japanonic and Koreanic later still in the 20th century). Early researchers like Pallas, Klaproth and Abel-Remusat argued against it. In actuality the first proponent of the Altaic theory was the Chagatai scholar Abu'l Ghazi Bahadur Khan in 1659. Actual well formulated proposals on Altaic come from the late 19th and early 20th century by the likes of Nikolas Poppe, Ramstedt and Gombocz Turkic and Mongolic share a large number of loanwords, in particular early Mongolic has as much as 20% of its vocabulary from Turkic. In particular from Bolgaric (Western) Turkic and not the nowadays more widespread Common Turkic, as much of the loaned Mongolic vocabulary. Reversely though the amount of Mongolic words in Old Turkic is marginal or even non-existent. Several modern Turkic languages, notably Tuvan and Yakut, have a considerable amount of Mongolic loanwords. Words which are commonly cited are: M. hüker ~ T. öküz "ox", M. qonin ~ T. koñ "sheep" , M. dajin ~ T. yagı "enemy", you got the obvious loaned ones like T. balık > M. balgasun "city", T. ekiz > M. ikire "twin", T. kum > M. qumaq "sand", T. kıl > M. qilgasun "hair" ... There are two points to be made. Mongolic words often have a suffix, but they don't have the root word, while Turkic has both root and suffixed word like kum "sand", which only appears with the diminutive suffix -ak in Mongolic. The other point is that common Turkic words like baš "head" become weird and niche words in Mongolic like tarbalčin "name of a bird with a bald head". I wish you would have talked a bit about morphology, cause that thing is more mysterious here. In particular pronouns, cases and plural markers. The pronominal system of "Core-Altaic" seems to be based on an alternation of bi-ba, ti-ta, i-a between singular and plural. In terms of cases, especially the accusative and dative seem to be shared between Turkic and Mongolic. In terms of number markers, both have a -t plural, which disappeared in Turkic, but stuck around in Mongolic, as well as a possible -n singular marker. Some say the -t plural was loaned from Mongolic into Turkic, though I am skeptical. Sources: Alexis Manaster-Ramer: The Truth about Strahlenberg's Classification of the Languages of Northeastern Eurasia Stefan Georg: Japanese, the Altaic Theory, and the Limits of Language Classification Stefan Georg: Telling general linguists about Altaic Larry Clark: Mongol Elements in Old Turkic? Marcel Erdal: The Turkic-Mongolic Lexical Relationship in View of the Leipzig-Jakarta List Claus Schönig: Türkisch-Mongolische Sprachbeziehungen Alexander Vovin: First and second person singular pronouns: a pillar or a pillory of the 'Altaic' hypothesis?
george starostin... that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. he ran a pretty infamous web 1.0 site where he wrote interminably long rock record reviews, rating each artist using a bizarre scale of "greatness" that involved such factors as "adequacy" and "resonance" and inevitably revealed the greatest musicians of all time to be the beatles, the stones and bob dylan. he inaugurated a whole generation of irritating record nerd forum types with reams of pseudo-scientific "evidence" for why music peaked in the 60s. highly unsurprised to find him at the vanguard of what appears to be an entirely vibes-based linguistic theory.
Perhaps new types of language groupings could see more attention. Ones that don't focus entirely on familial descent, but on interactions, similar features and other patterns in how similarities come to be. Clearly daughter languages aren't solely related to their mother language.
Love hearing about an underdiscussed language group! Especially ones that just don't get featured in Hollywood so most people don't even know they exist. I'm kind of co fused by there being a deadline if it's hard to keep and result in a post you're not quite happy with. Is this for a school project? Cuz there are youtubers that post once a year and I will watch no matter what just because of the content. ❤
@@zarinaromanets7290 Essentially, I basically told myself on August 4 that it would be done by September 4th, and set up a punishment for if I didn't get it done. I almost got it to where it needed to be but while I was doing finishing touches on the video I got some really bad news that messed up my trajectory.
@wrenisprobablyb0red Oh man, that sounds rough, sorry you got bad news. If there's one thing I've learned working on my car is I have to be in the right frame of mind and enjoy doing it, otherwise I just hurt myself, miss some important gasket and have regrets 😅 here's to it being all uphill from here! Take your time, us nerds love well researched content whenever it comes.
Pretty good but you really need to fix your editing, I have no idea how you managed to layer two audio tracks over each other several times but it’s a bit distracting and removes important information
Mongolian and Turkic are definitly related and mançu too its not just few word, in case of japanese and korean its mostly due too geographicly proxy, but if you think like that where you draw the line of many proxy language become a family language because for all language its same lot of people in a given area share culture and if they stay close enough time they will become one or very similar language . İ think that İndo european being accepeted among linguistic its because this institute has been always been lead by indo european speaking people so this can be a political and a cultural reason but also this group have stay enough time together to be consider one family and when they spread they stay pretty much same language. İn the case of turkish and mongolian both language can be understood in some degree by each other how ever there is the problem of loanword. İ dont say that indo european dont exist but altaic family is acceptable at least turkic and mongolian, and i think that altay mountain are a bad therm for all of this family because turks mongolian mançu korean japanese came from a area between amur river and baykal lake so... but like the major split was in altay so i understand. And also if you think this cannot be true i think you will be shocked that there is more in Türkiye we have the Ural-Altay-Kızıldereli(ural-altay-red skin) hypotesis so this one even nationalist dont know well about its a very deep "super-family" who are mostly based on genetics because yes turk and OG american are related take my words like its just theory there are not serious research about this topic and i understand why but among native american there some who like the idea and mostly in Türkiye but like its based one word, cultural and religious similarity, Turkish nationalism is wild like it is very present in education like sumerian are turk(mostly based on word similarity) etruscan, thracian, hittite, tuareg, schytian,viking(german,goth),french. So if you read all the comment thanks and i would love to explain to you all this theory . Have a good day
Would it make sense to use what we know about how humans migrated in the past to get an estimation of where languages came from, and which are plausibly related?
@@alonk1060 Since a lot of language families diverged thousands upon thousands of years ago, the most we can find about human migration is based on archaeological cultures, which *do* say a good bit, but not enough for us to ever conclusively say who was where, became who, etc. Like for example, we don't know where the Proto-Indo-Europeans were, despite them being ancestral to the languages half the world speaks. There's just a frustratingly large amount of prehistory that's completely unknowable...
Ural Altaic, language, Tourque, Tatares, Ougro Finnios, Scythes ou Saka Saha, Mançour, Tounguz, Dravidienne ou Tamil, Mongol,. la Familles Tourque Touranienne. Civilisation Akkad ou Chaldén, Sümerienne, leur language. Merci
Hey, so, I can proof with 100% certainty that Greek (and all other Indo-European languages), Phoenician (I guess that also means the entirety of Afroasiatic), Basque (including it's sister languages Ainu and the Dravidian language family), the Sino-Tibetan family, Japanese and Danish are part of the same family. They all originated from the Graeco-Phoenician-Basque-Icelandic pidgin. Here's a sample text: "Pfliip Florrp, Θώθ hekwos deywos. 𐤒𐤓𐤕𐤇𐤃𐤔𐤕 fuccian 服. Euskara sahara hrurgle Trompete. Oiseaux Oiseaux. 猫" -Homer, emperor of the Graeco-Phoenician Empire.
_Aesthetic And Gen Z Warning 😍💃🕺💃😍💃🕺🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃💅😍💃💅💃💅💅💅💅🕺🕺💃🕺💃🕺🕺💃🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺💃_ The Live Chat (I Was In Too) Was Sooo Sigma 😍💃💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺💅🕺 I Absolutely Rizzed Myself Up 💃🕺😍💅💃🕺😍💃💅😍💅💃🕺😍
@@waterrail_ yea! figured out in the past year and a half i was nb and wanted a new sona that was more representative of me anyway. this one has head fluff more similar to mine and is a virginia opossum, which is an animal native to where i am. it had significance for other reasons too, but i won't go into it.
Fragens rigt here 🖐️🖐️ this video is so SKIBIDI‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ Why didnt your upload videos for a year 😰😰😰😰😰 Take a selfie with me wrench 🤳🤳🤳 Please keep showing us your PEAKS 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 gyatt you later! 😀😀😄😀😀😀😀😀😀
the erasure is done through history as well as linguistics. the Japanese empire destroyed the histories of many areas on mainland Asia. in the 1700s the first printing presses were made. before this books were literally handwritten by scribes who were often Catholic. they had to be highly educated and rich. they were in Mexico and the US and Japan for hundreds of years by the 1700s. protestant missions spread into Asia. they also destroyed the history of the area and wrote it as they wanted. if you research Japanese they somehow have the nerve to say that Korean is based on Japanese, but Japanese comes from Chinese. and Chinese is older than Japanese. reading the history of the linguistics of Japan and especially Korea really really opened my eyes to how much is just destroyed. they openly admit this part. and then base their linguistics on what tiny amount of info we have and writings by openly bigoted colonial and imperial forces. looking at genealogy as well we know from DNA that the Altaic region is connected.
I know the editing is pretty bad right now. I'm gonna correct it soon but basically what happened is that I had a hard deadline and I was doing the last audio editing when I got some really bad news. I didn't want to push back the video so I ended up with fucked up audio and didn't double check it. It really sucks cause I wanted so badly to provide something basically perfect, and I really didn't manage anything like that... Thank you for the support, everyone! Almost 2k views in two days is amazing...
The thing mentioned in the description is still gonna happen. I just need a little more time. I don't lead a particularly stable life and finding time that I'm emotionally available can be hard :fire:
If you've got errors to point out that you think I might miss (not the major audio error, cause trust me, I'm not missing that. I'm redoing the audio asap) but little visual things
@@wrenisprobablyb0red is your character supposed to be there at 4:16 ? cuz its not there, or did you decide to not put it there? I also spotted a probably unintended netflix logo at 8:13 , the ithailian venn diagram dissapears for a sec at 14:13 , the background dissapears at 14:16 and at 14:26 you can see the ithailian venn diagram text for a split sec
Video is still amazing Wren, it was so much fun to watch (even though I'm not smart enough to understand half the things). Ik you aren't looking into the side of how connecting languages into a macrofamily can be important to nationalist agendas but I think that's super interesting. I'd definitely love to do some research on that myself.
Me when sprachbunds aren't good enough
Hey!! There are many words that are both in English and Japanese!! This means English is also an altaic language!!
seriously?
@@siyacer1000% its a joke
I recently saw the word "kawaii" on an ad that was in German, so does that mean that all "Indo-European" languages are secretly Altaic? I'd say so.
To be honest this isn't even THAT insane. A lot of expressions are the same in English and Japanese for example in parts of the UK and in Japan a "Sunshower" is called "A fox's wedding" (狐の嫁入り)... it's still insane though.
altaicists would 100% unironically agree with this
Lumpers definitely have point in saying that language families are probably more connected than we think.
The issue lies in actually knowing those connections, some of which which we either can't ever know, and others we might know, with future developments. It's kinda arrogant or at least very irresponsible to claim otherwise.
I'm not a professional linguist of any kind but from what I've gathered the similaries altacists say the altaic langauges have (agglutinative, vowel harmony etc.) possibly originated from an ancient sprachbund that the various "branches" were apart of rather than a language family.
e.g Their proto languages were all probably passing through Manchuria (or some other region to the west or southwest) at some point in the past and while they were there they influenced each other, before spreading out and forming their respective language families.
Anti-Nostratic heads will never understand that all man is brother. In all seriousness, the machinations of these are so insane but I really like the Nostratic family as a batshit insane theory. One particular figure I know of who was early to the foundation of the Nostratic School was Illich-Svitych. He was a Ukrainian Linguistic during the Soviet era who did a lot of major work with the study of Balto-Slavic developments. But his major passion project was Nostratic and he was in the processing of writing a major dictionary of proto-Nostratic before he died in a car accident just outside Moscow. I like to think as a joke that he was on the verge of proving it. Regardless, there is a version of said dictionary online but it’s in Russian.
It would be so freaking amazing to have someone translate it
the government silenced him
Yoo, new video! I find the Altaic hypothesis quite interesting but, as you said, it's a shame the Altaicists are so defensive trying to "protect" it instead of doing/applying a more linguistic method (that could reveal something solid). I definitely should take a more deep look at it, though. Anyway, good vid! Continue with the great work :D
Yes! The perfect excuse to talk about the stupid project I've been making for a while now, a conlang called Proto Anglo-Japonic (PAJ) that is meant to be the "reconstructed ancestor" of both English and Japanese. Anybody can see that name and 'namae' (名前). 'Suna'? (砂) Why, that's sand! And 'kataru' (語る) is clearly chatter. And most undeniably, the '-nai' (ない) ending is cognate with no! It's actually a really fun to point out similarities and create bizarre sound laws. What's funny is that it's unironically more convincing than Altaic' despite being obviously more absurd! The main reason I'm able to do this is by having every PAJ phoneme correspond to multiple in the descendent language, and often nothing at all. Maybe if I was smarter I could find some roundabout way of making it all consistent, but whatever :P I'm proud of what I have so far.
Here's a vocab list, including suffixes: (Don't ask what the apostrophes after plosives mean. I don't really know either.)
atátakə - fight (EN attack: JP tatakau [戦う])
ad’e - at (EN at: JP de [で])
eni - in (EN in: JP ni [に])
elksur - medicine (EN elixir: JP kusuri [薬])
egə - subject marker (EN I, ego: JP ga [が])
irl color (JP iro [色])
irld' - literally "distinctive color", red (EN red)
o - polite vocative particle (EN O as in "O king": o [お])
əswet - sweat (EN sweat: JP ase [汗])
manó - person, thing (EN man: JP mono [者, 物])
maštig’ - mistake (EN mistake, JP machigau [間違う])
mir - see (EN mirror, mirage: JP miru [見る])
namae - name (EN name, -onym: JP namae [名前])
naštúlg’ - being fond of (EN nostalgic: JP natsukashii [懐かしい])
nug’ - nude (EN naked: JP nugu [脱ぐ])
par - far [EN far: JP haruka [遥か])
pilat - flat [EN flat, plate: JP hiratai [平たい])
pone - bone [EN bone: JP hone [骨])
p'ansu - bounce (EN bounce: JP hazumu [弾む])
b’lead’ - blade, leaf (EN blade: JP ha [葉, 歯] Yeah, I know that phonologically evolution is ABSURD, but it's the same rules I'm following elswhere!
d’o - door (EN door: JP to [戸])
d’yonpu - jump, fly (EN jump: JP tobu [飛ぶ])
ka - question marking particle (EN huh? JP ka [か])
kauntu - number (EN count: JP kazu [数, from Old Japanese (kantu)])
kabur - cover, wear (EN cover: JP kaburu [被る])
kaz - faint (EN hazy: JP kasuka [微か])
kalaw - empty (EN hollow: JP kara [空])
ke - hair (EN hair: JP ke [毛])
kiə - (JP ki [木])
koŋg’nae - consider, think (EN cognitive, know: JP kangaeru [考える])
kyatár - talk (EN chatter: JP [語る])
g’raš - grass (EN grass: JP kusa [草])
sid’ə - lower, sit (EN sit, set: JP shita [下])
so - like (EN so: JP sou [そう])
su - inhale (EN suck: JP suu [吸う])
snad’ - sand (EN sand: JP suna [砂])
šotə - outside (EN out: JP soto [外])
šupe - up (EN super, up: JP ue [上])
šəká - red (JP akai [赤い])
šəkáirld' (šəká + irld') - bright red (EN scarlet)
šəkákiə (šəká + kiə) - red tree (EN acacia)
štad’u - stand (EN stood:, state JP tatsu [立つ])
hourl - throw (EN hurl: JP houru [放る])
wa - individual, we (EN one, we: JP watashi, ware [私, 我])
-ed’a - past tense marker, dummy subject/copula (EN -ed, it: JP -ta, da [た, だ])
-eba - conditional suffix (EN if, ever: JP -eba [えば])
-ekə - adjective forming suffix (EN -ic: JP -ka [か as in kasuka 微か])
-ena - adjective forming suffix (EN -en, JP na, no [な, の])
-i - adjective forming suffix from nouns (EN -y: JP -i [い])
This is brilliantly cursed. I am really curious what series of sound changes you dreamed up to get both the Japanese and English modern words from those proto-words like b’lead’.
@@JohnSmith-of2gu Oh god that one... welp, here goes. b' and d' become and p and t, just because. The l is lost in a consonant cluster multisyllabic word. (Again, most of these rules are yet to be set in stone.) This leaves peat. Final t is always lost, ea simplifies to a, and p becomes h like it did in Old Japanese, leaving ha.
But how does Basque fit into this?
It’s common ancestor is one level up, in a sister branch with PAJ that also includes Khoi-San, (specifically) British English, and the Antarctic languages.
This is fucking gold. I love this. You win a Wrenny. Which is like an Emmy but Wren
Something happened to my first comment, not sure what. Take 2!
Opinions: I do think there has to be some relation between Japonic and Koreanic (if not genetic then at least in terms of early influence). As well, I'm sure there has to be some relation between one of the """"Altaic"""" langs and another. Just, y'know, we have hardly any documentation of them before the 700s.
I like how dynamic your editing is. it fits your sona well. Your lineart also fits it well. You did pretty well in spite of it all.
Don't kill yourself over your project. Also don't underestimate the amount time you will need. Take it from me.
But in any case, mad props for sticking to your deadline despite the problems. That takes humility and steadfastness, and I appreciate that.
Either way I'm subbed now.
I'm sorry to hear of the bad news. I hope you're doing better.
Even the darkest moments are a gift.
From the earliest Anatolian inhabitants (Hittites, Hurrians) to the Ural Mountains and Japan, there is a continuous sea of languages with a suffixing structure and a subject-object-verb word order. Even the Sumerians, whom we know were not Indo-European or Semitic, spoke such a language. The Indo-European language family has been extensively studied, and its methodology has influenced the study of other language families. However, this methodology might not be suitable for all language families, especially those that are much older or have undergone significant changes.
literally been waiting for another wrenguistics video for so long
i enjoyed your video but what's with the overlapping audio?
Seems like he was inserting material after the fact but got the timing off.
Though this is how it landed with me. The online dog guy would sometimes just stop with his mouth hanging silently open like "I don't even know what to say about this Altaic nonsense", and then someone from the audience would start talking very loudly because they can't cope with silence.
@@kingbeauregard ah i see. it could be the case
Kingbeauregard is essentially right. I was in the final stage of audio editing when I got some really bad news and since I'd already announced the release time, I panicked and only got this like 90% finished, and maybe 30% of where it'd be in an ideal world
@@wrenisprobablyb0red I'm hoping things are better now, or on their way to getting better. Please take care of what's important. Also, I enjoyed this video; thanks for making it!
@@wrenisprobablyb0redTbh these small moments were pretty funny to me. But yeah don't be afraid of spending the time you need, hope you're doing well fellow gay person
Reject Altaic, return to Turko-Algonquian!
Accept Dene-Caucasian-Basque-Sinitic
As someone who has done some research on Altaic myself, let me try to rehabilitate the proposal a bit, although I do reject it as such also. It is not absurd to claim a relationship between some individual members, but not all.
Frankly this is not to disparage your video, but the topic is far deeper and I see most youtubers who speak on it, tackle it only superficially.
First of regarding the history of the hypothesis. Altaic is odd in that it started with a rejection rather than a proposal. The first western scholars, notably Strahlenberg, wanted to disprove the relationship between Turkic and Mongolic (Altaic was originally limited to Turco-Mongolic, Tungusic was added later and Japanonic and Koreanic later still in the 20th century). Early researchers like Pallas, Klaproth and Abel-Remusat argued against it. In actuality the first proponent of the Altaic theory was the Chagatai scholar Abu'l Ghazi Bahadur Khan in 1659. Actual well formulated proposals on Altaic come from the late 19th and early 20th century by the likes of Nikolas Poppe, Ramstedt and Gombocz
Turkic and Mongolic share a large number of loanwords, in particular early Mongolic has as much as 20% of its vocabulary from Turkic. In particular from Bolgaric (Western) Turkic and not the nowadays more widespread Common Turkic, as much of the loaned Mongolic vocabulary. Reversely though the amount of Mongolic words in Old Turkic is marginal or even non-existent. Several modern Turkic languages, notably Tuvan and Yakut, have a considerable amount of Mongolic loanwords. Words which are commonly cited are: M. hüker ~ T. öküz "ox", M. qonin ~ T. koñ "sheep" , M. dajin ~ T. yagı "enemy", you got the obvious loaned ones like T. balık > M. balgasun "city", T. ekiz > M. ikire "twin", T. kum > M. qumaq "sand", T. kıl > M. qilgasun "hair" ...
There are two points to be made. Mongolic words often have a suffix, but they don't have the root word, while Turkic has both root and suffixed word like kum "sand", which only appears with the diminutive suffix -ak in Mongolic. The other point is that common Turkic words like baš "head" become weird and niche words in Mongolic like tarbalčin "name of a bird with a bald head".
I wish you would have talked a bit about morphology, cause that thing is more mysterious here. In particular pronouns, cases and plural markers. The pronominal system of "Core-Altaic" seems to be based on an alternation of bi-ba, ti-ta, i-a between singular and plural.
In terms of cases, especially the accusative and dative seem to be shared between Turkic and Mongolic. In terms of number markers, both have a -t plural, which disappeared in Turkic, but stuck around in Mongolic, as well as a possible -n singular marker. Some say the -t plural was loaned from Mongolic into Turkic, though I am skeptical.
Sources:
Alexis Manaster-Ramer: The Truth about Strahlenberg's Classification of the Languages of Northeastern Eurasia
Stefan Georg: Japanese, the Altaic Theory, and the Limits of Language Classification
Stefan Georg: Telling general linguists about Altaic
Larry Clark: Mongol Elements in Old Turkic?
Marcel Erdal: The Turkic-Mongolic Lexical Relationship in View of the Leipzig-Jakarta List
Claus Schönig: Türkisch-Mongolische Sprachbeziehungen
Alexander Vovin: First and second person singular pronouns: a pillar or a pillory of the 'Altaic' hypothesis?
BABE WAKE UO WREN UPLOADED
Wow the Altaicists really cannot hide the salt anymore in the 21st century huh?
This is a pretty good video, though it sounds like you used two different microphones at points. Also, your fursona looks cool af!
OMG wrenguistics video??? also i love ur fursona!!!!!
Bro finally uploaded
1:17 _Deaf Nicaraguans have entered the chat_
Fuzzy man talking about languages?? Sign me up
george starostin... that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. he ran a pretty infamous web 1.0 site where he wrote interminably long rock record reviews, rating each artist using a bizarre scale of "greatness" that involved such factors as "adequacy" and "resonance" and inevitably revealed the greatest musicians of all time to be the beatles, the stones and bob dylan. he inaugurated a whole generation of irritating record nerd forum types with reams of pseudo-scientific "evidence" for why music peaked in the 60s. highly unsurprised to find him at the vanguard of what appears to be an entirely vibes-based linguistic theory.
so how much linguistic melding was achieved via the finno-korean hyperwar?
THE SUMERS WERE DERIVED FROM THE SUMIRI TRIBE OF THE GREAT HWAN EMPIRE!! KOREA IS THE CRADLE OF ALL CIVILIZATIONS!!
/j, obviously
Actually not much. It merely caused the existence of Icelandic (it's a fusion of alternate universe Basque and Proto-Karen).
I doubt it was meant but Ilike how you audio overlaps or takes too long to cue in between scenes. Worth the year :)
Wait has it been a million years?
Perhaps new types of language groupings could see more attention. Ones that don't focus entirely on familial descent, but on interactions, similar features and other patterns in how similarities come to be. Clearly daughter languages aren't solely related to their mother language.
Love hearing about an underdiscussed language group! Especially ones that just don't get featured in Hollywood so most people don't even know they exist. I'm kind of co fused by there being a deadline if it's hard to keep and result in a post you're not quite happy with. Is this for a school project? Cuz there are youtubers that post once a year and I will watch no matter what just because of the content. ❤
@@zarinaromanets7290 Essentially, I basically told myself on August 4 that it would be done by September 4th, and set up a punishment for if I didn't get it done. I almost got it to where it needed to be but while I was doing finishing touches on the video I got some really bad news that messed up my trajectory.
@wrenisprobablyb0red Oh man, that sounds rough, sorry you got bad news. If there's one thing I've learned working on my car is I have to be in the right frame of mind and enjoy doing it, otherwise I just hurt myself, miss some important gasket and have regrets 😅 here's to it being all uphill from here! Take your time, us nerds love well researched content whenever it comes.
4:15 Obligatory mention that Middle-Earth is not a completely different world, but a mythical past for ours
Pretty good but you really need to fix your editing, I have no idea how you managed to layer two audio tracks over each other several times but it’s a bit distracting and removes important information
welcome back !!!!
There isn't just 1 furry linguist :0, new sub!
HYPED!!!!!!!
Altaic is like, completely real and noxious. It's so true....
Love the video!
I lost my virginity to this video 🔥🔥🔥
Mongolian and Turkic are definitly related and mançu too its not just few word, in case of japanese and korean its mostly due too geographicly proxy, but if you think like that where you draw the line of many proxy language become a family language because for all language its same lot of people in a given area share culture and if they stay close enough time they will become one or very similar language . İ think that İndo european being accepeted among linguistic its because this institute has been always been lead by indo european speaking people so this can be a political and a cultural reason but also this group have stay enough time together to be consider one family and when they spread they stay pretty much same language. İn the case of turkish and mongolian both language can be understood in some degree by each other how ever there is the problem of loanword. İ dont say that indo european dont exist but altaic family is acceptable at least turkic and mongolian, and i think that altay mountain are a bad therm for all of this family because turks mongolian mançu korean japanese came from a area between amur river and baykal lake so... but like the major split was in altay so i understand. And also if you think this cannot be true i think you will be shocked that there is more in Türkiye we have the Ural-Altay-Kızıldereli(ural-altay-red skin) hypotesis so this one even nationalist dont know well about its a very deep "super-family" who are mostly based on genetics because yes turk and OG american are related take my words like its just theory there are not serious research about this topic and i understand why but among native american there some who like the idea and mostly in Türkiye but like its based one word, cultural and religious similarity, Turkish nationalism is wild like it is very present in education like sumerian are turk(mostly based on word similarity) etruscan, thracian, hittite, tuareg, schytian,viking(german,goth),french. So if you read all the comment thanks and i would love to explain to you all this theory . Have a good day
Good video! Although I am just going to say please review your work before publishing them, the audio overlapped a few times. ❤
Anglo-Academia always tryna keep the Altaic man down!
Nice vid!
This video is a sensory nightmare
@@siarhian10 yeah, absolutely. i'm redoing the audio ASAP
Omg, linguistics nerd and non-binary, they're just like me fr 😂
I really wanna a lot more video of yours
i enjoyed the content but have never before seen
Would it make sense to use what we know about how humans migrated in the past to get an estimation of where languages came from, and which are plausibly related?
@@alonk1060 Since a lot of language families diverged thousands upon thousands of years ago, the most we can find about human migration is based on archaeological cultures, which *do* say a good bit, but not enough for us to ever conclusively say who was where, became who, etc. Like for example, we don't know where the Proto-Indo-Europeans were, despite them being ancestral to the languages half the world speaks. There's just a frustratingly large amount of prehistory that's completely unknowable...
@@wrenisprobablyb0red They've actually made some interesting headway in this for Native American langs.
Ural Altaic, language, Tourque, Tatares, Ougro Finnios, Scythes ou Saka Saha, Mançour, Tounguz, Dravidienne ou Tamil, Mongol,. la Familles Tourque Touranienne. Civilisation Akkad ou Chaldén, Sümerienne, leur language. Merci
VOVIN MENTIONED VOVIN MY LOVE ❤❤❤❤❤
Hey, so, I can proof with 100% certainty that Greek (and all other Indo-European languages), Phoenician (I guess that also means the entirety of Afroasiatic), Basque (including it's sister languages Ainu and the Dravidian language family), the Sino-Tibetan family, Japanese and Danish are part of the same family.
They all originated from the Graeco-Phoenician-Basque-Icelandic pidgin. Here's a sample text:
"Pfliip Florrp, Θώθ hekwos deywos. 𐤒𐤓𐤕𐤇𐤃𐤔𐤕 fuccian 服. Euskara sahara hrurgle Trompete. Oiseaux Oiseaux. 猫"
-Homer, emperor of the Graeco-Phoenician Empire.
And some Altaicists are trying to rebrand it as Trans-Eurasian lmao
COUNTRIES GRAHHHHHH
Oh finally a new vid uwu
ooo new upload
first linguistics channel i’ve watched with a furry rant-sona. altaic is funny.
dude what's with you talking over yourself during the transitions? its jarring.
_Aesthetic And Gen Z Warning 😍💃🕺💃😍💃🕺🕺💃🕺💃🕺💃💅😍💃💅💃💅💅💅💅🕺🕺💃🕺💃🕺🕺💃🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺💃_ The Live Chat (I Was In Too) Was Sooo Sigma 😍💃💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺💅🕺😍🕺💅🕺💅🕺
I Absolutely Rizzed Myself Up 💃🕺😍💅💃🕺😍💃💅😍💅💃🕺😍
Woaw your non biney? That is so cool
The Wreal of Appwroval
damn i'd be this early on a wren video, especially as my first video
I see a new avatar
Do Proto-Indo-European next!
That one is real, so it probably wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.
blud posted an year later
Rent was due
new sona??
@@waterrail_ yea! figured out in the past year and a half i was nb and wanted a new sona that was more representative of me anyway. this one has head fluff more similar to mine and is a virginia opossum, which is an animal native to where i am. it had significance for other reasons too, but i won't go into it.
bluds finally back
Possum!!!
Altaic hypothesis is obviously bogus. We all know all languages descended from Central Asian Turkish sun worshippers.
WRENGUISTICSSSSSSSS
:3
holy hell
Cute sona!
I always goon 24/7 breaks are for altaics
K
Why does your character look so weird in this video
average linguistics channels
•u•
LingoLizard sent me here 🫡
Fragens rigt here 🖐️🖐️ this video is so SKIBIDI‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️ Why didnt your upload videos for a year 😰😰😰😰😰 Take a selfie with me wrench 🤳🤳🤳 Please keep showing us your PEAKS 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 gyatt you later! 😀😀😄😀😀😀😀😀😀
the erasure is done through history as well as linguistics. the Japanese empire destroyed the histories of many areas on mainland Asia. in the 1700s the first printing presses were made. before this books were literally handwritten by scribes who were often Catholic. they had to be highly educated and rich. they were in Mexico and the US and Japan for hundreds of years by the 1700s. protestant missions spread into Asia. they also destroyed the history of the area and wrote it as they wanted. if you research Japanese they somehow have the nerve to say that Korean is based on Japanese, but Japanese comes from Chinese. and Chinese is older than Japanese. reading the history of the linguistics of Japan and especially Korea really really opened my eyes to how much is just destroyed. they openly admit this part. and then base their linguistics on what tiny amount of info we have and writings by openly bigoted colonial and imperial forces. looking at genealogy as well we know from DNA that the Altaic region is connected.
its real
@@siyacer yes, and Basque *is* the ancestor of all other "languages".
@@Idkpleasejustletmechangeit why are altaic deniers universally redditors?
Never Mess With Tvran Nation Sabhōman! You Cannot De'veat the Horde! We Are The Horde. 🇦🇿🇧🇹🇧🇬🇨🇳🇪🇪🇫🇮🇭🇺🇯🇵🇰🇿🇰🇬🇲🇳🇰🇵🇰🇷🇹🇷🇹🇲🇺🇿🤍❤️💚💙🖤🐴🐺🐻🦅🌲☀️
Never Mess With Tvran Nation Sabhōman! You Cannot De'veat the Horde! We Are The Horde. 🇦🇿🇧🇹🇧🇬🇨🇳🇪🇪🇫🇮🇭🇺🇯🇵🇰🇿🇰🇬🇲🇳🇰🇵🇰🇷🇹🇷🇹🇲🇺🇿🤍❤️💚💙🖤🐴🐺🐻🦅🌲☀️
@@mothgamingoffical4502 hi the hord I'm Wren