Here in SE Michigan, frost line is 42" also. I built my 36x72 pole a couple of years ago with a "puck" of concrete at the bottom of the 42" hole for the post to sit on. Backfilled with gravel. Main thing is to get the posts deep, unlike the build in the video, as a large open pole barn doesn't have perpendicular structure (except at the end wall) to resist wind loads from the side. I've used sonotube piers and post brackets on top for porches where the post just holds up the roof that is attached to the house so no concern about lateral loads. But for a Pole barn, deep post embedment is essential. As for concrete AROUND the post, I poured an interior floor up to the skirt boards and around the posts. No issues there. That is done all the time around here. And you can see in the video that the concrete that was pulled away from the post had a smooth face which would probably allow the concrete to slide UP the post under a frost heave. I say "probably". As for frost heave here, I do have the concrete aprons leading into the pole barn heave by up to 1.5" in the coldest part of winter. They go back down in the Spring. But there is NO movement of the floor (unheated building). I do put a short piece of rebar thru the post a couple of inches up from the bottom to resist uplift also.
Holy cow 42 inches I’m in Virginia it doesn’t get that cold here we have some days at 0 to 10 our frost like is like 18 inches that was code for my metal garage.
If the hole reaches frost line and the entire hole is filled with concrete it is not going to heave this is how a foundation works. IN addition adding concrete will strengthen shear force significantly . Have built many pole barns this way. Often will drive rebar through post to then lock into concrete this gives very good resistance to lift force from wind. It is only going to heave if the concrete did not reach frost line.
I used to build pole barns for Away about 45 years ago in Upstate NY. Surprised they still make them. Looks to me the concrete chunks were add after construction because the shape of the chunks look like the dirt was dug away and then concrete was poured. During construction if someone wanted to pour concrete it would go all around the post.
I used to erect steel frames in the UK. One job I was on, the farmer had another building by another firm recently erected. All looked good until he dug out along side for a road. They had stood the columns up, and then back filled with neat ballast, with one barrow load of concrete round the top. When the farmer contacted the firm, he was told that the cement hadn't mixed with the ballast. Never heard that one before.
LOL I'm glad you mentioned the company that put their sign up did NOT make the mistakes lol. I was thinking it was kind of shady to leave their name in the video, haha
I'm from California originally with it's ridiculous codes, but in South Carolina 🤦🤦 OMG you want some videos of what not to do 🤣 just off the top of my head on a job I'm on, used drywall screws to install crown molding and caulked it with silicone so you can't paint it 😂
In North Carolina a pole barn built on a qualified farm is not required to have a permit or inspections, it does however require permits and inspections for electrical, plumbing and heating/cooling.
I’m in NY. In my area (western my) footings must be 42”, but if you research the true frost line (i have) in my part of the state in reality frost never gets below 32”. It’s lower further north and much higher down south and east, near New York City. And that’s worst case in a terrible winter. Frost line will also be appreciably higher if it’s anywhere near a heated structure (e.g. deck footings are likely to be higher due to heat loss through basement walls).
Joel Clements 0 seconds ago Huh??? I'm from just north of you in Ontario, Canada. It is standard procedure here to sink posts/poles 48" deep, and set them in concrete. Our building code calls for 12" diameter concrete for 6x6 posts. A quick search of the internet shows that concrete backfill for a properly treated post is commonplace in frost zones - in fact, the town of Milo, New York, indicates explicitly a minimum of 42" of concrete backfill (sloped on the top for drainage) for a pole barn construction. The key is using concrete tube forms, which prevents frost movement (the frost can't grip the smooth sides of the tube).
The main problem here was they were not deep enough and no Sono tube was used but generally here they just have a footer or block under post at 48". I do agree that if deep enough you can pour around post with a Sono tube.
Im from northern illinois. Ive been on a lot of wik building jobs in the past. This is how most buildings were done. I dont see much movement unless they were built in a wetland. Maybe they didnt make it to 42" down but this is standard
Same here, also from Illinois (where we have a 42" frost line) and work in construction, and pouring concrete around supports like this is perfectly common and normal. The timbers do not move. Absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about.
@@ev6558 totally agree with you fellas this is some sort of sham, even if you put a concrete wall around part of the building just keep it separate, use a footing, don't anchor it to your poles or anything, tar paper or foam can do that good to go...I just dunno how this guy thinks the pole will not move as he thinks the concrete around it would move? by his own logic he put a sono pad beneath it then doesn't attach the pole to it above the frost line, doesn't wrap the pole nothing pushes soil right over it, why I think its BS, I've built pole building's in the worst conditions, the pac northwest on glacial till, boulders the size of beach balls to tennis balls.. all 4 seasons, easy 3 ft frost line, pour your concrete above the soil line, and go, anchor the pole to the concrete, the wood lasts way longer, no issues if anything moves it all moves at once, the pac NW is an extreme seismic area if this method was sketchy it wouldn't pass inspection. .. this guy makes no sense to me at all, I think he did it so he can easily push his wall up to the poles, why the poles are beneath the soil line is beyond me? why not build the wall anchor the pole to the top of the wall,. above the soil line, with a solid footing its good to go.. at least wrap those posts with tar paper, something.. like to see a real life demonstration of his logic, compared
I work for a fence company in New York and the local code calls for two feet buried. Wile we don’t use concrete with wood post , we do of course use concrete with steel post. As long as a straight sided hole is dug and you don’t create a shoulder or inverted bell shape hole , we get no heaving due to frost.
As an engineer, I would say the concrete placed around the pole would help resist uplift forces due to wind. Uplift forces on a metal building are generally grater than bearing forces of the building. A large building is essentially a "wing" in strong winds. Having said that the uplift forces of frost heave are also real and greater care to not create a collar is needed.
As a builfing designer, I'm very curious to know if an engineer was involved initially to design the footings. As you say to resist the upload forces of the wind.
used to be pretty common to use a mixer of dirt and cement ( dry) to support and anchor the poles which sat on a poured concrete pad. Has that changed?
Most the pole buildings built here have a concrete puck under the post and then backfilled with gravel. putting concrete around post will let the frost have something to grab and it will heave the post. We live in upstate New York so it might be different where the ground does not freeze like it does here?@@johneaton4364
I used to use the metal banding between the board as I formed, doubled them up and nailed one down to the lower board and the other to the upper board. did that every 2', and just poured slowly, it won't blow out. did have a 2x12 split in the middle once, so always made sure to have plenty of strong backs. easier to remove the additional lumber and fasteners, and better than shoveling mix back in after it blows out!
Good idea with the straps I also thought that all thread drilled through with washers and nuts would hold it together. Or some kind of wall tie for panel forming.
Here in Iowa we only put a concrete pad (18"x6"thick at the bottom of a 48" hole x 24" round. Gravel in the hole too just ground level. The rock is to drain all water away from the post.
As a building inspector myself, we inspect the bearing capability of the soil the building is resting on. All pole barns are engineered because the residential building code does not address “pole buildings”. Also, building codes are to buy the occupants time do evacuate a building when something goes wrong. Pole barns are not dwellings. There have been some in my jurisdiction that are called “barndominiums” and are designed to buy the occupants that time and are inspected accordingly.
Clean work, but not sure I can get behind your method!!! You are still entrapping the posts within the stem wall concrete wall you are pouring. Are those posts guaranteed to never rot out?? just curious
Good job. I'm in upstate NY myself and have seen it done this way as well. I did the sitework for a huge barn at a local dairy farm outside of Amsterdam. The owner had a group of Amish from St Johnsville area come in and that is exactly how they did it! We warned the owner, but he wouldn't listen. I wasn't too impressed with the roof framing either in the areas that weren't trusses. No inspections because they were farm exempt. So I documented everything, I was not about to get blamed for the deep cut and fill I did if the building moved because there wasn't adequate frost protection by the builder! Keep up the good work! Aaron in Mayfield
Hey, I'm not in a NY frost line state, actually I'm in NY South, lol South Carolina, but my question is strictly wanting to know the difference in why one cement pour is better than the previous? I understand heaving from frost, I just don't understand what you did that would make it different, wouldn't the tubs still push up? I understand the use of anchors because cement doesn't stick to wood, but the tubs, I haven't worked with them with understanding... I'm actually building thermal mass earth homes, and I'm so unconventional and outside the box, I depend on metric square foot weight for anchoring 😂 I use sand bags and used tires as load bearing walls right on the ground, maybe a 10 inch footer sub ground level as locked in start, but nothing as in depth of cement and rebar... Lots of contractors are amazed I can build a fire proof, earthquake proof, bullet proof, termite proof structure you can't destroy, you can try... Rubber encased steel belt, compacted dirt two foot plus thick, and bull fencing use as chicken wire on both sides holding 4 inches of cement mud finished walls... I don't do lumber framing anymore once I build my first earth home lol... But I'm interested in all building techniques, I have only been to NY once, on a 5 month run refirb of family dollar stores, Maine and Vermont were so cold I don't understand how you guys do it that's a 10-4 on nope 😂 Thanks for your response...
@@jeromegarcia5396 the bottom of the tubes sit below the frost line. So the frost won’t get underneath the tubes and lift poles. The frost doesn’t lift the tubes it rides up and down along the sides. That’s why it is Code to use tubes now. They used to let you auger a hole in the ground below the frost line and fill it with concrete. In some cases the frost Would lift the concrete because it wasn’t smooth as it is when you pour it in the tubes. Bondo Built actually fixed two problems. The original poles weren’t all the frost line, and it had clumps of concrete around it, which would’ve made the poles lift even more. The original builder could have used auger poles and extended them below. The frost line with a small footing underneath. What Bondo did was even better.
Cool. That makes sense. I was genuinely curious as I know very little about concrete. I'm a carpenter in northern Illinois. I see a bunch of people finishing off their pole bars with just a concrete slab, and they sometimes stake it into the posts. Never seemed like a good idea to me.
Back in the day in Cleveland we'd build them like a Q-tip made out of treated 6x6 and barrow mixed sakrete around anything that touched dirt and or h2o, (36" to frost). With full understanding that anything short of a mono slab was going to move some. The idea being the sakrete would delay the decomposition of the post. This video reminds me of a bad attempt at that. My Dad built a large multi-level deck off his house over a eroding ravine and 30 ft cliff when I was a little kid that is still in decent shape today - 40 years later.
I live in north Georgia. My pole barn has concrete around the poles. Each pole is over four feet deep with concrete up two feet from the surface. The frost line is two feet.
Bondo! So grateful you are showing this! Recently I started planning to put a concrete wall for the pole barn build I have as a carport. We did NOT pour concrete under or around. We did put a criss cross of rebar to prevent lifting from the frost. After 12 yrs of the build it has not moved. But, I would love to have a workshop so a nice concrete wall and insulated. I really am grateful you decided to make a presentation on this sort of situation. It is exactly what I need to know and learn about. Awesome! Thank you from Atlantic Canada, 4 ft frost line as well as in your area, 48 inches. 🙏🇨🇦 ☺
@@bondobuilt386 Right. I put up a garage in Allentown years ago that required a separate pour just for deep footings. (I didn't know why then and griped about it too!) The guy that did you wrong in the video was probably from the South and thought he knew better. Cheers.
That is not the way to use a string line. If any part of the building touches it, it won't be straight. The right way to do it is to space it out from the posts at the end, like 1" and then use your tape to see if it's the proper distance from the string.
Except it works if you have skill. We've built 100 ft long buildings using string to kiss forms/framing. They're as straight and square as you're gonna get (1/8 off from corner to corner).
Ok. So , the post rests on the plastic tube filled with concrete. The surface area of the end of the post is 6 "X 6" which is 36sq ins. The surface area of the tube can't be that much larger , seems little gain. Wouldn't it be better to lay a concrete plinth, some 12"x12" for the post to rest on. I'm no builder and would like to hear why that wouldn't work. Thanks
Wasn't the term pole barn coined because they where made of telephone/power poles sunk in the ground without any concrete? The whole point being as cheap as possible. If they ordered a pole barn, it seems to me they got what they requested.
I started wrapping my 4x4's in hard plastic below earth and above about 4-5". I goop a large amount of 100% silicon in the interior plastic before fitting.
Isn't it a bad idea to burry those Simpson brackets? Why not extend the tube to grade to encase the 2ft of post below grade or chop the 2ft off the posts and install the Simpson bracket above grade?
I dont want to be an armchair quarterback. I would tend to agree. Time will tell how long the brackets will last burried in the soil. . I would have recommended to cut off the posts and sit them on the brackets above grade. Lot of work. And dangerous.
Exactly! Here in Western Oregon where the ground is wet 250 days/year, I would never bury wood unless it’s a telephone pole or railroad tie and soaked in creosote. No pressure treated wood will survive more than 10 years here under the ground
Well in my next video you will see that we put foam down 32" and out 48" around this entire wall I built. The problem with the other guys method was those balls of concrete you could not get the vertical foam put in because it was a big blob in the way. We frost protected the entire house as none of it was below frost with 48" of wing foam. The house part they set on little squares of concrete under the post at around 2' down so we could get the foam in.
32" frost line here. I recently discovered the 100 year old "addition" on my house had a foundation only 16" down, about one and a half row of cmu below grade. and no footing or gravel. lol. needless to say this was not a pleasant surprise. However, despite many vertical cracks, it never heaved. but we're super sandy here. as my dad says, it may be wrong, but it "lasted this long." There's no end to the nasty surprises out there
There is a detail for fence posts that calls for a post to be placed in a hole (36"+-) with gravel in the bottom and a "Flat Rock" placed between the bottom of the post and the gravel. 12" of gravel around the bottom of the post and 12" of concrete above that around the post at ground level. This is a detail that help prevent the post from rotting. Never seen it on a pole barn.
It looks like they hired someone who builds fences for a living to build the barn. In the lower states where frost line is non-existent you pour concrete around the base like that of your fence posts to keep them anchored. The concrete also acts like an insulator to keep moisture and bugs at bay longer so your fence doesn't rot in the ground or become an insect factory. Note in the southern states, your worst enemy is spring and fall rains being absorbed by the lumber and the lumber getting soaked expanding and cracking in the summer heat. On the other side of the coin, in the north I have seen this done below the frost line to some success. At the same time there's better ways not necessarily cheaper, to prevent ground rot for your wooden posts.
I come from Europe and I worked in construction for a few years. I argue that both ways of anchoring the supporting elements are wrong. One: Wood does not belong in concrete, absolutely never. Second: I don't see waterproofing protection for wood? Wet concrete and wood with no protection... In ten years those wooden beams will fall down on their own because they will rot. As it should be: Pour a concrete foundation, a footing, for each wooden beam. At least 80 cm deep. Waterproof the top of the concrete. After the concrete has dried( at least 1 day), drill 4 holes for the threaded rods and fix the wooden beams to the iron brackets. The wooden beams would be above ground level and would not be subject to degradation so quickly.
I have an idea why they did that, it's because they don't understand how frost moves things. Most people don't realize how much the ground moves. It was probably installed by non-contractors that seen how fence posts are done and just assumed it was just a bigger version.
I don't like the wood in the ground at all but that is how they build these barn homes. I would have done a frost proof stem wall if I got involved sooner.
I don't know why they would just dump concrete at the top of the hole. Here in the midwest the poles are sunk below frost line then backfilled with whatever came out of the hole. But they do throw a concrete block down that the pole sits on. Then if you want a concrete floor, it is poured to the grade board so the poles are partially surrounded. The slab floats. Outside however, we did pour the porch slab around all the posts. Its been fine for 5 years with just some cracking, which was ecpected.
Could you have poured a floor out to a foot from the posts then supported the building on that floor then poured a footing under the posts with wet set brackets with rebar connecting the slab to the footing/stem wall? Basically, a slab on grade with a 2x2 exterior footing.
I wonder, why wood is still under ground level? I would make concrete much higher or something else to make sure wood doesn't touch concrete or ground and prevent rotten.
The entire house would have to be redone. I just fixed the ones that had blobs of concrete around them and frost protected everything. I did not design or build this structure. If it were my design it would be on a frost protected stem wall.
The adding the concrete wall after post gets down a lot out my way it’s easy no forms needed. We space the outside form boards so u can’t see the post, and stringers set flush
Its a quick and easy way to put in a covered shed without the worry of your shed getting blown away from wind. At least if frost uplift is no concern to you and you just want something to park your tracker or boat under. That doesn't mean its the correct way, just quick, easy and thus also cheaper.
pencil rod and cat heads tie wall mid span would have been to fancy for below grade. barns are hard to critizize when your taking on water deeper then 2 feet might as well just go shallow or spend the money on strip footing grade beams
Would compact the ground around those post very well, a gas powered compactor, prolly have to add more dirt to level it out, or some perforated PVC tubing for drainage away from the house near the gutter's
My first house (G.I. Bill) was a small 100yr old 2 story in western Mass. Red rock foundation for the house, but the back porch would heave up a few inches in winter and started to pull the porch roof away from the house. Turns out the porch was on iron posts surrounded by a surface bet of concrete. Don't remember if I fixed it before I moved or not.
in florida i see that all but we are a foot below sea in the tampa area so that mud suction keeps them in place but how i've always done mine is i'll dig 6 inches deeper than what i need to make a pad then the next day i add around the 4x4 i know i don't need to but i was taught that way
🔥the biggest issues with that setup is the weight off building will push the post threw the concrete like sleeve. Specially at the over head door opening with weight on those 2 posts.. great repair boss, u did perfect repair🔥👊🔥🏍🔨⚙️🚜
Actually the concrete was under the post also but the real problem in our area is the frost would grab them big blobs of concrete and heave the post upwards in the winter when it froze and soil expanded. Thanks Jeremy. 👊
@@bondobuilt386 yes forsure.. I didn’t see it was under post.. but ya def a better footing setup way u doing it. Get r done ✅ 👊I’m up in northern Ontario so I hear ya on frost line
Question. We do not have a frost line and I cannot find in our building code that mentions requirements for it. So I ask, if you didn't have a frost issue, would a 4'/48" depth of the pole not get concrete at all? I've seen deep concrete posts (about 4' deep) with the pole attached to it via anchors and deep poles wrapped by concrete. So which do you like more?
In my area (4 ft frostline) typical practice is to drill an 18” hole and put a pre-formed concrete pad or plastic disc (I forget brand name, but they are a stock item at lumberyard). Treated post rests on that. Then backfill and tamp 1” washed sharp gravel to grade.
@@cjplay2 Brackets on top of sono tubes or permacolumns. True pole barns should have died when they removed chromium and arsenic (CCA) from pressure treatment. I won’t even build a fence with wood these days.
My father would dig his holes and he would break up a cinder block and put in the bottom of hole with some gravel. Non of his poles came up because of frost lol
Around here pole barns are inspected when the holes are dug with no posts in them, and they are inspected again when the building is completed, At no point here would an inspector know whether or not the holes were filled with concrete. My barns prints called for concrete cookies at the bottom of the holes and 4 foot 8 holes.
When doing structural, never set your posts IN concrete. Posts should be setting ON concrete with a post base and J bolt. If you see your contract setting them in the concrete Fire them. No matter where you are in the country.
@@bigdaddyccm1217 pole barns posts are always set in concrete, never in my 35 years of building have I ever seen a pole barn post resting on top of any tie down. Your comment about structural is kinda hilarous as well. Structural posts are anchored with a tie down like a sstb traveling though a stem wall and footing or deepened slab or sonitube. Engineering pages for these pole barns have never had a detail involving tie downs in my experience.
Truly unbelievable! I still don't like the way those posts are buried in the ground as they rot over time. And what makes you think that all the other posts that you didn't dig around in the other part aren't done the same way?
Just an observation about "Safety". I come from one of the heaviest industries in North America and I will say that when so much emphasis is put on "Safety" it makes complacency a factor far worse than good habits and knowing your job could ever be compared to. I used to laugh about the Safety Geeks squealing about safety glasses, proper this and proper that until I realized how much harm it does to talk down to people in such a way. It turns them off to actual awareness, only to regret not using their common sense. I will say it gets entertaining at times hearing some of the outrageous stories that are obviously made up and proven otherwise by their own words.. Then again Darwin has some awards left to be handed out..
Pressure treated isn't suppose to come into contact with concrete or soil. It's suppose to be put on galvanized chairs that hold it off the ground\concrete and water . There are still many backwoods towns in NY that have no building codes . When you drive through their towns it shows
Have a question. Since you are doing that kind of wall. Why not put a footing, trim the phots and setup a proper sill plate? seems like the cost woult not have been that much different and you wouln't have wood posts nested with the concrete.
I have put gravel under a post or pole, but concrete was on used on a gate post. Yes they were deep and concrete was well under frost line. I never knew why I did it,now I do.
Interesting. Setting posts in concrete is all we do in NZ. Well up north anyway. Shows importance of knowing local codes. I can’t imagine living where the ground freezes. Eek.
Shouldn’t you bring the post back to above the ground level to prevent the pole from rotting out. Pt will rot eventually. You are only as strong as your weakest link.
In Oregon they make you dig 5ft down and poor around the pole. I didnt get it, water just goes down the pole and ends up breaking up the concrete. Only thing I can figure is its ballast for high wind loads.
I built a pole barn and put concrete in the bottom of pole hole. Each hole was about 5 ft deep. All poles were treated and a floor was poured over the top and filled the hole the rest of the way up. Did I make a terrible mistake? Rebar was also added to the initial pour to connect the floor. The building has stood for 8 years now and has not moved one bit. It is located in central Missouri.
You didn't make a mistake. I build these barns full time. I have no idea what the guy in the video is talking about. Treated posts set 42" below level ground and filled with three 80lb bags of sackrete is standard procedure. Why a concrete "wall" is the fix in this video is beyond me. Basically, guy says, "Don't use concrete around posts. Concrete bad. I'll fix this with concrete under the post. Now concrete good." Laughable
concrete keeps them from taking time to pack the dirt around the poles. Twisted or crooked poles can be manipulated without affecting the squareness of the building.
Truly amazed... my two porches have the 6x6 embeded in concrete. Both my porches have temp supports and will be dug out and redone like how youre doing these. :/
really interesting video!! Your fix was a variation on the concrete column with wet set brackets at grade you see on midwest pole barn builds. Do they use those in your area?
Most the pole barns here they just put the pole 4' in the ground with a concrete disk or solid block under the pole and backfill with gravel. I think other areas are worried about termites but we do not have them.
Here in SE Michigan, frost line is 42" also. I built my 36x72 pole a couple of years ago with a "puck" of concrete at the bottom of the 42" hole for the post to sit on. Backfilled with gravel. Main thing is to get the posts deep, unlike the build in the video, as a large open pole barn doesn't have perpendicular structure (except at the end wall) to resist wind loads from the side. I've used sonotube piers and post brackets on top for porches where the post just holds up the roof that is attached to the house so no concern about lateral loads. But for a Pole barn, deep post embedment is essential. As for concrete AROUND the post, I poured an interior floor up to the skirt boards and around the posts. No issues there. That is done all the time around here. And you can see in the video that the concrete that was pulled away from the post had a smooth face which would probably allow the concrete to slide UP the post under a frost heave. I say "probably". As for frost heave here, I do have the concrete aprons leading into the pole barn heave by up to 1.5" in the coldest part of winter. They go back down in the Spring. But there is NO movement of the floor (unheated building). I do put a short piece of rebar thru the post a couple of inches up from the bottom to resist uplift also.
Holy cow 42 inches I’m in Virginia it doesn’t get that cold here we have some days at 0 to 10 our frost like is like 18 inches that was code for my metal garage.
He said he was in upstate New York
Yeah that's a no go, great job on the repair, thanks for sharing 💪🇺🇲🤙👌✊
If the hole reaches frost line and the entire hole is filled with concrete it is not going to heave this is how a foundation works. IN addition adding concrete will strengthen shear force significantly . Have built many pole barns this way. Often will drive rebar through post to then lock into concrete this gives very good resistance to lift force from wind. It is only going to heave if the concrete did not reach frost line.
Real
here in N.C. me put our post in the ground 18" and pour concrete around them. we have a 6" frost line.
I used to build pole barns for Away about 45 years ago in Upstate NY. Surprised they still make them. Looks to me the concrete chunks were add after construction because the shape of the chunks look like the dirt was dug away and then concrete was poured. During construction if someone wanted to pour concrete it would go all around the post.
That's a lot of work for floor prep, props to you for correcting someone else's mistake.
They have been building em like this for 200 years.
I used to erect steel frames in the UK. One job I was on, the farmer had another building by another firm recently erected. All looked good until he dug out along side for a road. They had stood the columns up, and then back filled with neat ballast, with one barrow load of concrete round the top. When the farmer contacted the firm, he was told that the cement hadn't mixed with the ballast. Never heard that one before.
LOL I'm glad you mentioned the company that put their sign up did NOT make the mistakes lol. I was thinking it was kind of shady to leave their name in the video, haha
When I see videos like this I save them to show my customers the consequences of a "low ball" quote.
Good idea. lol
Most people want it now and as cheap as possible. I'm still waiting on someone to call and say I have a open budget so I want it built properly.
@@ConservativeBlackMan 🤣 right...
I'm from California originally with it's ridiculous codes, but in South Carolina 🤦🤦 OMG you want some videos of what not to do 🤣 just off the top of my head on a job I'm on, used drywall screws to install crown molding and caulked it with silicone so you can't paint it 😂
Sad, but true. And not just a low ball quote, but people who don't know what they are doing.
In North Carolina a pole barn built on a qualified farm is not required to have a permit or inspections, it does however require permits and inspections for electrical, plumbing and heating/cooling.
interesting. thanks.
I’m in NY. In my area (western my) footings must be 42”, but if you research the true frost line (i have) in my part of the state in reality frost never gets below 32”. It’s lower further north and much higher down south and east, near New York City. And that’s worst case in a terrible winter. Frost line will also be appreciably higher if it’s anywhere near a heated structure (e.g. deck footings are likely to be higher due to heat loss through basement walls).
2ft in Ohio. Unless you live up around lake Erie.
Joel Clements
0 seconds ago
Huh??? I'm from just north of you in Ontario, Canada. It is standard procedure here to sink posts/poles 48" deep, and set them in concrete. Our building code calls for 12" diameter concrete for 6x6 posts. A quick search of the internet shows that concrete backfill for a properly treated post is commonplace in frost zones - in fact, the town of Milo, New York, indicates explicitly a minimum of 42" of concrete backfill (sloped on the top for drainage) for a pole barn construction. The key is using concrete tube forms, which prevents frost movement (the frost can't grip the smooth sides of the tube).
The main problem here was they were not deep enough and no Sono tube was used but generally here they just have a footer or block under post at 48". I do agree that if deep enough you can pour around post with a Sono tube.
Im from northern illinois. Ive been on a lot of wik building jobs in the past. This is how most buildings were done. I dont see much movement unless they were built in a wetland. Maybe they didnt make it to 42" down but this is standard
We have a 48" frost line here so we put a footing under the post 48" down and this is all clay under there at around 30 inches and below.
@@bondobuilt386 would be interesting to hear the story behind all this getting tore up. Who made the call? An inspector? I kinda doubt it.
Same here, also from Illinois (where we have a 42" frost line) and work in construction, and pouring concrete around supports like this is perfectly common and normal. The timbers do not move. Absolutely no idea what this guy is talking about.
@@ev6558 totally agree with you fellas this is some sort of sham, even if you put a concrete wall around part of the building just keep it separate, use a footing, don't anchor it to your poles or anything, tar paper or foam can do that good to go...I just dunno how this guy thinks the pole will not move as he thinks the concrete around it would move? by his own logic he put a sono pad beneath it then doesn't attach the pole to it above the frost line, doesn't wrap the pole nothing pushes soil right over it, why I think its BS, I've built pole building's in the worst conditions, the pac northwest on glacial till, boulders the size of beach balls to tennis balls.. all 4 seasons, easy 3 ft frost line, pour your concrete above the soil line, and go, anchor the pole to the concrete, the wood lasts way longer, no issues if anything moves it all moves at once, the pac NW is an extreme seismic area if this method was sketchy it wouldn't pass inspection. .. this guy makes no sense to me at all, I think he did it so he can easily push his wall up to the poles, why the poles are beneath the soil line is beyond me? why not build the wall anchor the pole to the top of the wall,. above the soil line, with a solid footing its good to go.. at least wrap those posts with tar paper, something.. like to see a real life demonstration of his logic, compared
The best part is the guy who's filming absolutely believes what he's saying..
I work for a fence company in New York and the local code calls for two feet buried.
Wile we don’t use concrete with wood post , we do of course use concrete with steel post.
As long as a straight sided hole is dug and you don’t create a shoulder or inverted bell shape hole , we get no heaving due to frost.
As an engineer, I would say the concrete placed around the pole would help resist uplift forces due to wind. Uplift forces on a metal building are generally grater than bearing forces of the building. A large building is essentially a "wing" in strong winds. Having said that the uplift forces of frost heave are also real and greater care to not create a collar is needed.
As a builfing designer, I'm very curious to know if an engineer was involved initially to design the footings. As you say to resist the upload forces of the wind.
used to be pretty common to use a mixer of dirt and cement ( dry) to support and anchor the poles which sat on a poured concrete pad. Has that changed?
Most the pole buildings built here have a concrete puck under the post and then backfilled with gravel. putting concrete around post will let the frost have something to grab and it will heave the post. We live in upstate New York so it might be different where the ground does not freeze like it does here?@@johneaton4364
The house was done way different than the garage so I know an engineer did not want that and this should not pass code where we live. @@kevinzep01
I used to use the metal banding between the board as I formed, doubled them up and nailed one down to the lower board and the other to the upper board. did that every 2', and just poured slowly, it won't blow out. did have a 2x12 split in the middle once, so always made sure to have plenty of strong backs. easier to remove the additional lumber and fasteners, and better than shoveling mix back in after it blows out!
Good idea with the straps I also thought that all thread drilled through with washers and nuts would hold it together. Or some kind of wall tie for panel forming.
Here in Iowa we only put a concrete pad (18"x6"thick at the bottom of a 48" hole x 24" round. Gravel in the hole too just ground level. The rock is to drain all water away from the post.
I am sure glad that you clarified that Cook did not set the posts. I was thinking that looked bad on them with their sign on building.
As a building inspector myself, we inspect the bearing capability of the soil the building is resting on. All pole barns are engineered because the residential building code does not address “pole buildings”. Also, building codes are to buy the occupants time do evacuate a building when something goes wrong. Pole barns are not dwellings. There have been some in my jurisdiction that are called “barndominiums” and are designed to buy the occupants that time and are inspected accordingly.
thats soil engineer s job mot building inspectir loser
Clean work, but not sure I can get behind your method!!! You are still entrapping the posts within the stem wall concrete wall you are pouring. Are those posts guaranteed to never rot out?? just curious
Unbelievable. Good fix. Thank you
Thanks Wingman
Good job. I'm in upstate NY myself and have seen it done this way as well. I did the sitework for a huge barn at a local dairy farm outside of Amsterdam. The owner had a group of Amish from St Johnsville area come in and that is exactly how they did it! We warned the owner, but he wouldn't listen. I wasn't too impressed with the roof framing either in the areas that weren't trusses. No inspections because they were farm exempt. So I documented everything, I was not about to get blamed for the deep cut and fill I did if the building moved because there wasn't adequate frost protection by the builder!
Keep up the good work! Aaron in Mayfield
Thanks I do not know why they did that in New York with our frost level. Crazy
Hey, I'm not in a NY frost line state, actually I'm in NY South, lol South Carolina, but my question is strictly wanting to know the difference in why one cement pour is better than the previous?
I understand heaving from frost, I just don't understand what you did that would make it different, wouldn't the tubs still push up?
I understand the use of anchors because cement doesn't stick to wood, but the tubs, I haven't worked with them with understanding...
I'm actually building thermal mass earth homes, and I'm so unconventional and outside the box, I depend on metric square foot weight for anchoring 😂 I use sand bags and used tires as load bearing walls right on the ground, maybe a 10 inch footer sub ground level as locked in start, but nothing as in depth of cement and rebar...
Lots of contractors are amazed I can build a fire proof, earthquake proof, bullet proof, termite proof structure you can't destroy, you can try...
Rubber encased steel belt, compacted dirt two foot plus thick, and bull fencing use as chicken wire on both sides holding 4 inches of cement mud finished walls... I don't do lumber framing anymore once I build my first earth home lol...
But I'm interested in all building techniques, I have only been to NY once, on a 5 month run refirb of family dollar stores, Maine and Vermont were so cold I don't understand how you guys do it that's a 10-4 on nope 😂
Thanks for your response...
@@jeromegarcia5396 the bottom of the tubes sit below the frost line. So the frost won’t get underneath the tubes and lift poles. The frost doesn’t lift the tubes it rides up and down along the sides. That’s why it is Code to use tubes now. They used to let you auger a hole in the ground below the frost line and fill it with concrete. In some cases the frost Would lift the concrete because it wasn’t smooth as it is when you pour it in the tubes. Bondo Built actually fixed two problems. The original poles weren’t all the frost line, and it had clumps of concrete around it, which would’ve made the poles lift even more. The original builder could have used auger poles and extended them below. The frost line with a small footing underneath. What Bondo did was even better.
Longer poles…. Not auger poles. Talk to text lol.
@@howlandexcavating Ahhh... Got it... Makes complete sense now...
what keeps the new concrete curb from heaving and taking the posts with it?
Good question. We put 32" of vertical foam board and 48" horizontal foam to frost protect it. I will show in next video.
Cool. That makes sense. I was genuinely curious as I know very little about concrete. I'm a carpenter in northern Illinois. I see a bunch of people finishing off their pole bars with just a concrete slab, and they sometimes stake it into the posts. Never seemed like a good idea to me.
They may have done the concrete around the poles for uplift from the wind.
No not in the cold area I live.
Back in the day in Cleveland we'd build them like a Q-tip made out of treated 6x6 and barrow mixed sakrete around anything that touched dirt and or h2o, (36" to frost). With full understanding that anything short of a mono slab was going to move some. The idea being the sakrete would delay the decomposition of the post. This video reminds me of a bad attempt at that. My Dad built a large multi-level deck off his house over a eroding ravine and 30 ft cliff when I was a little kid that is still in decent shape today - 40 years later.
I live in north Georgia. My pole barn has concrete around the poles. Each pole is over four feet deep with concrete up two feet from the surface. The frost line is two feet.
It'll be there forever.
Just always make sure to be below the frost line....always
Bondo! So grateful you are showing this! Recently I started planning to put a concrete wall for the pole barn build I have as a carport. We did NOT pour concrete under or around. We did put a criss cross of rebar to prevent lifting from the frost. After 12 yrs of the build it has not moved. But, I would love to have a workshop
so a nice concrete wall and insulated. I really am grateful you decided to make a presentation on this sort of situation. It is exactly what I need to know and learn about. Awesome! Thank you from Atlantic Canada, 4 ft frost line as well as in your area, 48 inches. 🙏🇨🇦 ☺
If you pour a wall like this put some ties between the 2X10 boards to keep things from bowing.
@@bondobuilt386 OK, noted with thanks👍☺🇨🇦
In the South we dig a big hole, drop the post in, pour dry concrete around it, hit it with the hose, cover, and done.
Yes in the south that is fine. Not where we live the frost will grab it and heave it up.
@@bondobuilt386 Right. I put up a garage in Allentown years ago that required a separate pour just for deep footings. (I didn't know why then and griped about it too!) The guy that did you wrong in the video was probably from the South and thought he knew better. Cheers.
For a residential project or just barn?
@@nextjin For a pole barn like this we might actually mix the concrete first. The dry dump is mostly for fence posts and decks.
youre black
That is not the way to use a string line. If any part of the building touches it, it won't be straight. The right way to do it is to space it out from the posts at the end, like 1" and then use your tape to see if it's the proper distance from the string.
Except it works if you have skill. We've built 100 ft long buildings using string to kiss forms/framing. They're as straight and square as you're gonna get (1/8 off from corner to corner).
@@TheGuruStud With a line riding it, you just culdn't see the (convex) curve,
@@TheGuruStud It might work, but it takes a LOT more time, and its really easy to screw it up.
How do you ensure proper elevation is maintained when the posts are just hanging in the air? Seems like some amount of sag would be inevitable.
I typically use lasers to check before starting then make sure it goes back the same or as close to level as you can with all the other factors
Ok. So , the post rests on the plastic tube filled with concrete. The surface area of the end of the post is 6 "X 6" which is 36sq ins. The surface area of the tube can't be that much larger , seems little gain. Wouldn't it be better to lay a concrete plinth, some 12"x12" for the post to rest on. I'm no builder and would like to hear why that wouldn't work. Thanks
Also. The concrete now being laid .?between the shuttering is that on compacted earth or is there hardcore beneath
Wasn't the term pole barn coined because they where made of telephone/power poles sunk in the ground without any concrete? The whole point being as cheap as possible.
If they ordered a pole barn, it seems to me they got what they requested.
I started wrapping my 4x4's in hard plastic below earth and above about 4-5". I goop a large amount of 100% silicon in the interior plastic before fitting.
Isn't it a bad idea to burry those Simpson brackets? Why not extend the tube to grade to encase the 2ft of post below grade or chop the 2ft off the posts and install the Simpson bracket above grade?
I dont want to be an armchair quarterback. I would tend to agree. Time will tell how long the brackets will last burried in the soil. . I would have recommended to cut off the posts and sit them on the brackets above grade. Lot of work. And dangerous.
Exactly! Here in Western Oregon where the ground is wet 250 days/year, I would never bury wood unless it’s a telephone pole or railroad tie and soaked in creosote. No pressure treated wood will survive more than 10 years here under the ground
So if frost would have lifted concrete around post why wont it lift knee wall you poured?
Well in my next video you will see that we put foam down 32" and out 48" around this entire wall I built. The problem with the other guys method was those balls of concrete you could not get the vertical foam put in because it was a big blob in the way. We frost protected the entire house as none of it was below frost with 48" of wing foam. The house part they set on little squares of concrete under the post at around 2' down so we could get the foam in.
32" frost line here. I recently discovered the 100 year old "addition" on my house had a foundation only 16" down, about one and a half row of cmu below grade. and no footing or gravel. lol. needless to say this was not a pleasant surprise. However, despite many vertical cracks, it never heaved. but we're super sandy here. as my dad says, it may be wrong, but it "lasted this long." There's no end to the nasty surprises out there
There is a detail for fence posts that calls for a post to be placed in a hole (36"+-) with gravel in the bottom and a "Flat Rock" placed between the bottom of the post and the gravel. 12" of gravel around the bottom of the post and 12" of concrete above that around the post at ground level. This is a detail that help prevent the post from rotting. Never seen it on a pole barn.
I have worked with concrete before, what did the wall look like after you got done? Any bleed out that had to be filled in after not viberating it?
The next video shows the wall.
Here in the Midwest we install 24” sono 36”-42” deep up to grade with embedded post anchors.
We don't deal with ice in Florida so setting a pole in concrete is normal. We have water table and wind issues.
They glipped it 😂😂😂😂
String on roof line too?
It looks like they hired someone who builds fences for a living to build the barn. In the lower states where frost line is non-existent you pour concrete around the base like that of your fence posts to keep them anchored. The concrete also acts like an insulator to keep moisture and bugs at bay longer so your fence doesn't rot in the ground or become an insect factory. Note in the southern states, your worst enemy is spring and fall rains being absorbed by the lumber and the lumber getting soaked expanding and cracking in the summer heat. On the other side of the coin, in the north I have seen this done below the frost line to some success. At the same time there's better ways not necessarily cheaper, to prevent ground rot for your wooden posts.
Ground rot in casement and concrete is way worse. It's treated wood bugs won't get into it but the concrete the lie in the concrete will eat it up.
Not sure why you would not have concrete fully around the pole to floor level?
what stops the wind from lifting the roof/poles out the ground?
I live in the Northwest and we do pour concrete around the poles you'll have to be 3 ft deep typically about 1/3 of the yard for pole
Lol concrete guy with the remote control 🤣 couldn't wait to show off his toy lol
I come from Europe and I worked in construction for a few years. I argue that both ways of anchoring the supporting elements are wrong. One: Wood does not belong in concrete, absolutely never. Second: I don't see waterproofing protection for wood? Wet concrete and wood with no protection... In ten years those wooden beams will fall down on their own because they will rot.
As it should be:
Pour a concrete foundation, a footing, for each wooden beam. At least 80 cm deep. Waterproof the top of the concrete. After the concrete has dried( at least 1 day), drill 4 holes for the threaded rods and fix the wooden beams to the iron brackets. The wooden beams would be above ground level and would not be subject to degradation so quickly.
I have an idea why they did that, it's because they don't understand how frost moves things. Most people don't realize how much the ground moves. It was probably installed by non-contractors that seen how fence posts are done and just assumed it was just a bigger version.
I like the way you fixed the problem with the post, But I don't like the wood in the curb wall.
I don't like the wood in the ground at all but that is how they build these barn homes. I would have done a frost proof stem wall if I got involved sooner.
Does circle T charge an extra fee for the conveyer truck? If so, how much?
I don't know why they would just dump concrete at the top of the hole. Here in the midwest the poles are sunk below frost line then backfilled with whatever came out of the hole. But they do throw a concrete block down that the pole sits on. Then if you want a concrete floor, it is poured to the grade board so the poles are partially surrounded. The slab floats. Outside however, we did pour the porch slab around all the posts. Its been fine for 5 years with just some cracking, which was ecpected.
Oh, now I see. They used poles that are too short! My posts were sunk at least 5ft below grade.
Could you have poured a floor out to a foot from the posts then supported the building on that floor then poured a footing under the posts with wet set brackets with rebar connecting the slab to the footing/stem wall? Basically, a slab on grade with a 2x2 exterior footing.
I wonder, why wood is still under ground level? I would make concrete much higher or something else to make sure wood doesn't touch concrete or ground and prevent rotten.
The entire house would have to be redone. I just fixed the ones that had blobs of concrete around them and frost protected everything. I did not design or build this structure. If it were my design it would be on a frost protected stem wall.
The adding the concrete wall after post gets down a lot out my way it’s easy no forms needed. We space the outside form boards so u can’t see the post, and stringers set flush
Unless you pour a four foot deep wall between the posts what is going to prevent that wall from lifting with the frost
The frost protected foam we applied.
Aren’t those post brackets for above grade only?
We wrap the bottom 4ft of our post in 2 inch ridged foam sleeve here in Alaska. That helps prevents frost from grabbing the post.
Im sure that helps.
Our frost line is 6-8 feet in Canada, I assume yours as well, 1/4 down crush gravel is what we use above the front line to prevent heaving.
We have the Amish build many barns and they usually place a concrete "pill" at the bottom to set the PT posy on and then concrete around the post
Its a quick and easy way to put in a covered shed without the worry of your shed getting blown away from wind. At least if frost uplift is no concern to you and you just want something to park your tracker or boat under. That doesn't mean its the correct way, just quick, easy and thus also cheaper.
Yup if frost was not an issue but it is where we live. LOL
Old school, put pole in below frost fill hole with concrete, agreed bad idea but commonly done in the past
Yes but these were not below frost line ours is 48". these were 24"
@@bondobuilt386 that was just lazy, our frost line is 4’+ here in New Hampshire, grew up near Erie, amazing that build wasn’t falling over already
@@kennethharman2779 probably would have shifted the first winter they lived in it.
pencil rod and cat heads tie wall mid span would have been to fancy for below grade. barns are hard to critizize when your taking on water deeper then 2 feet might as well just go shallow or spend the money on strip footing grade beams
Would compact the ground around those post very well, a gas powered compactor, prolly have to add more dirt to level it out, or some perforated PVC tubing for drainage away from the house near the gutter's
Yes we compacted everything here.
My first house (G.I. Bill) was a small 100yr old 2 story in western Mass. Red rock foundation for the house, but the back porch would heave up a few inches in winter and started to pull the porch roof away from the house. Turns out the porch was on iron posts surrounded by a surface bet of concrete. Don't remember if I fixed it before I moved or not.
in florida i see that all but we are a foot below sea in the tampa area so that mud suction keeps them in place but how i've always done mine is i'll dig 6 inches deeper than what i need to make a pad then the next day i add around the 4x4 i know i don't need to but i was taught that way
How deep are the posts in the main section of the building ? Did the same guy build it ? Thanks Good dog - Rotor
The same guy built it. We need to do some repair over there too. built it different but there is a problem and this video will have a part 2.
🔥the biggest issues with that setup is the weight off building will push the post threw the concrete like sleeve. Specially at the over head door opening with weight on those 2 posts.. great repair boss, u did perfect repair🔥👊🔥🏍🔨⚙️🚜
Actually the concrete was under the post also but the real problem in our area is the frost would grab them big blobs of concrete and heave the post upwards in the winter when it froze and soil expanded. Thanks Jeremy. 👊
@@bondobuilt386 yes forsure.. I didn’t see it was under post.. but ya def a better footing setup way u doing it. Get r done ✅ 👊I’m up in northern Ontario so I hear ya on frost line
Question. We do not have a frost line and I cannot find in our building code that mentions requirements for it. So I ask, if you didn't have a frost issue, would a 4'/48" depth of the pole not get concrete at all? I've seen deep concrete posts (about 4' deep) with the pole attached to it via anchors and deep poles wrapped by concrete. So which do you like more?
In my area (4 ft frostline) typical practice is to drill an 18” hole and put a pre-formed concrete pad or plastic disc (I forget brand name, but they are a stock item at lumberyard). Treated post rests on that. Then backfill and tamp 1” washed sharp gravel to grade.
18” circumference 48” deep
@Philip Brown much appreciated. Looking forward to my first pole barn.
@@cjplay2 Brackets on top of sono tubes or permacolumns. True pole barns should have died when they removed chromium and arsenic (CCA) from pressure treatment. I won’t even build a fence with wood these days.
@SilverbackAG appreciate the insight. I'm more inclined for steel post frame but they won't let me on the first project. Financing issues... oh well.
Nice work boys.👍🏻🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks Joe
My father would dig his holes and he would break up a cinder block and put in the bottom of hole with some gravel. Non of his poles came up because of frost lol
reminds me of 2003 when I was 1st becoming a finisher and I worked for a wack job contractor
Lol yup I can imagine bud
Pay those guys an extra 10%….
.. fixing stuff is harder than doing it right the first time.
Ha! The original contractors’ shame should be complete! Good thing real pros like you guys are on the job now!
Thanks Bill
Frost heave will also get under the concrete "curb" placed between posts. Why wasn't that a concern?
We put wing foam around the entire building for frost protection when we backfilled it.
th-cam.com/video/XxCYw05Cfho/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_yLN6sxJ9dT0UM_A
Around here pole barns are inspected when the holes are dug with no posts in them, and they are inspected again when the building is completed, At no point here would an inspector know whether or not the holes were filled with concrete.
My barns prints called for concrete cookies at the bottom of the holes and 4 foot 8 holes.
Some states,counties, townships, etc don't require inspections on pole buildings until over a certain size
You can always go back with non-shrink grout to close gaps at the bracket
When doing structural, never set your posts IN concrete. Posts should be setting ON concrete with a post base and J bolt. If you see your contract setting them in the concrete Fire them. No matter where you are in the country.
tell me you dont do construction without telling me you dont do construction
@@joshpoe Huh?
@@bigdaddyccm1217 pole barns posts are always set in concrete, never in my 35 years of building have I ever seen a pole barn post resting on top of any tie down. Your comment about structural is kinda hilarous as well. Structural posts are anchored with a tie down like a sstb traveling though a stem wall and footing or deepened slab or sonitube. Engineering pages for these pole barns have never had a detail involving tie downs in my experience.
@@joshpoeu shut that shit down...
@@joshpoeexactly
ayo been watching a few of your vids over the days, i really love the format! big projects from start to finish. love it, keep it up
Why does it matter if the post is in the concrete vs sitting on top? Does it not lift/move either way?
Truly unbelievable! I still don't like the way those posts are buried in the ground as they rot over time. And what makes you think that all the other posts that you didn't dig around in the other part aren't done the same way?
Cooks did NOT do this. We checked all posts and frost protected the entire place with foam and burried it.
how old was the pole barn?
This is how we put our fence posts in and it actually shows it on the bag. Is it different because it's holding a structure?
After all the digging your guys had to do I hope you had an exceptional safety meeting.
You know we did. LOL
"Better SAfe than Sorry" :)
I’m in the Midwest, we have two safety meetings
@@donchristie420 Nice lol
Just an observation about "Safety".
I come from one of the heaviest industries in North America and I will say that when so much emphasis is put on "Safety" it makes complacency a factor far worse than good habits and knowing your job could ever be compared to.
I used to laugh about the Safety Geeks squealing about safety glasses, proper this and proper that until I realized how much harm it does to talk down to people in such a way.
It turns them off to actual awareness, only to regret not using their common sense.
I will say it gets entertaining at times hearing some of the outrageous stories that are obviously made up and proven otherwise by their own words..
Then again Darwin has some awards left to be handed out..
Good job guys!
Thanks
Pressure treated isn't suppose to come into contact with concrete or soil. It's suppose to be put on galvanized chairs that hold it off the ground\concrete and water . There are still many backwoods towns in NY that have no building codes . When you drive through their towns it shows
Have a question. Since you are doing that kind of wall. Why not put a footing, trim the phots and setup a proper sill plate? seems like the cost woult not have been that much different and you wouln't have wood posts nested with the concrete.
If the concrete went all the way down 4 feet would that of been ok ?
really don't want a big clump of concrete around the pole at all just need a footer under the pad 4 feet down in our area.
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks for the reply, Next fence post I put up I will try pad only. I'm in Ontario Canada it's the same 4 feet down.
if you are going to be pouring concrete and using sonotubes why not bring your concrete above grade?
I have put gravel under a post or pole, but concrete was on used on a gate post. Yes they were deep and concrete was well under frost line. I never knew why I did it,now I do.
Interesting. Setting posts in concrete is all we do in NZ. Well up north anyway. Shows importance of knowing local codes. I can’t imagine living where the ground freezes. Eek.
Shouldn’t you bring the post back to above the ground level to prevent the pole from rotting out. Pt will rot eventually. You are only as strong as your weakest link.
In Oregon they make you dig 5ft down and poor around the pole. I didnt get it, water just goes down the pole and ends up breaking up the concrete. Only thing I can figure is its ballast for high wind loads.
I built a pole barn and put concrete in the bottom of pole hole. Each hole was about 5 ft deep. All poles were treated and a floor was poured over the top and filled the hole the rest of the way up. Did I make a terrible mistake? Rebar was also added to the initial pour to connect the floor. The building has stood for 8 years now and has not moved one bit. It is located in central Missouri.
I would say you are ok if it has not moved in 8 years. If it was in a cold climate you would not want to do it like that.
As long as the cement is below the frost line it's actually better.
@@williamkirkpatrick8314 correct
You didn't make a mistake. I build these barns full time. I have no idea what the guy in the video is talking about. Treated posts set 42" below level ground and filled with three 80lb bags of sackrete is standard procedure. Why a concrete "wall" is the fix in this video is beyond me. Basically, guy says, "Don't use concrete around posts. Concrete bad. I'll fix this with concrete under the post. Now concrete good." Laughable
@@ryanc2114 Depth fully depends on your frost line which is regional.
Our frost line in Canada is between 48-96 inches depending on location.
concrete keeps them from taking time to pack the dirt around the poles. Twisted or crooked poles can be manipulated without affecting the squareness of the building.
Truly amazed... my two porches have the 6x6 embeded in concrete. Both my porches have temp supports and will be dug out and redone like how youre doing these. :/
th-cam.com/video/8jzKPLyV8SU/w-d-xo.html If you are going to dig it up do it like this video.
Did I miss something? It looked like the concrete was poured NEXT to the poles. Not even around it, let alone underneath for 48".
Bondo is there a pad under the 6x6?
No there was just that blob of concrete around the post and some was under it also. Now our sonotube is under there with a foot on it.
really interesting video!! Your fix was a variation on the concrete column with wet set brackets at grade you see on midwest pole barn builds. Do they use those in your area?
Most the pole barns here they just put the pole 4' in the ground with a concrete disk or solid block under the pole and backfill with gravel. I think other areas are worried about termites but we do not have them.
I put concrete pad in bottom of hole and gravel around post on mine. No issues so far.
That is how it should be done.